Kit Reveal: Moff Gideon

Replies

  • Ultra
    8268 posts Moderator
    13mzybf0kh8a.png

    Going by ability descriptions, Stormtrooper loses 40% offense from his unique each time a defeated ally is revived

    So if you had Stormtrooper + Royal Guard + Old Daka in the same team, and Royal Guard is defeated, Stormtrooper gets +40% offense, but when Old Daka revives RG, he loses that 40% offense, and gains that 40% defense again

    So in Gideon's scenario, when he revives an imperial trooper with his unique, stormtrooper won't have the +40% offense even though they were defeated once since they aren't currently defeated anymore
  • Ultra wrote: »
    13mzybf0kh8a.png

    Going by ability descriptions, Stormtrooper loses 40% offense from his unique each time a defeated ally is revived

    So if you had Stormtrooper + Royal Guard + Old Daka in the same team, and Royal Guard is defeated, Stormtrooper gets +40% offense, but when Old Daka revives RG, he loses that 40% offense, and gains that 40% defense again

    So in Gideon's scenario, when he revives an imperial trooper with his unique, stormtrooper won't have the +40% offense even though they were defeated once since they aren't currently defeated anymore

    That's sad. Hard hitting Stormtroopers would be fun. If only it meant he gains 40% offense but doesn't lose the 40% defense because the ally is still living, but has been 'defeated'
    My discord - BabyYoda#4470 My swgoh.gg - https://swgoh.gg/p/648565123/
  • Kyno
    31110 posts Moderator
    AhnaldT101 wrote: »
    I have a question in regards to this part of Gideon's Leader ability, "Imperial Trooper allies gain 40% Offense and revive with 50% Health and Protection the first time they are defeated each encounter" in relation to Stormtrooper's unique ability Wall of Stormtroopers zeta, "Gain 40% Offense for each defeated Empire ally."

    How is "defeated" being interpreted in this situation? Right now it seems the game uses the term "defeated" in two different ways: 1) You were defeated but came back right away and 2) Being dead = being defeated for good. As an example, Veers' Aggressive Tactician, General Grievous' Metalloid Monstrosity, and Asajj's Rampage triggers in scenario 1 and scenario 2. "Whenever an enemy/ally is defeated" is the verbiage all those kits use. Regarding Moff Gideon and Stormtrooper, are we taking the Veers/Asajj/Grievous "on death" approach where a character dying then reviving immediately will trigger the unique ability bonuses or are we taking the Death Trooper approach where "defeated" literally means the character is dead and did not revive so he can apply Deathmark?

    Grievous might be what I was hoping would happen where Nute would be defeated, then revive, but then would still trigger the Metalloid Monstrosity bonuses even though Nute is not really gone for good. Is Moff Gideon and Stormtrooper only a scenario 2 definition where we need "gone for good" Imperial Troopers or will it act similarly to the examples listed and work in both scenarios 1 and 2?

    Clarification would be great as I am hoping Stormtrooper will become useful like how Pao and Hoth Rebel Scout did with Mon Mothma this year!

    "Defeated ally" has always meant they are dead at the time. If they are not dead, it doesnt count. Just like DT.

    When "ally is defeated" is used that is when they can be revived, but still have the effect.
  • Ultra
    8268 posts Moderator
    I looked at the mechanics @AhnaldT101

    kjh1w9bdbbjq.png

    The unique triggers on:
    Encounter Start,Ally Killed,Ally Revived,Ally Summoned

    and whenever an ally is killed or revived:
    cykt5bpojy4k.png

    It checks the number of dead units and then multiplies that by +40% so you end up getting +(0*40%) offense boost if all units are revived from an AOE through Gideon's unique
  • Ultra
    8268 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    AhnaldT101 wrote: »
    I have a question in regards to this part of Gideon's Leader ability, "Imperial Trooper allies gain 40% Offense and revive with 50% Health and Protection the first time they are defeated each encounter" in relation to Stormtrooper's unique ability Wall of Stormtroopers zeta, "Gain 40% Offense for each defeated Empire ally."

    How is "defeated" being interpreted in this situation? Right now it seems the game uses the term "defeated" in two different ways: 1) You were defeated but came back right away and 2) Being dead = being defeated for good. As an example, Veers' Aggressive Tactician, General Grievous' Metalloid Monstrosity, and Asajj's Rampage triggers in scenario 1 and scenario 2. "Whenever an enemy/ally is defeated" is the verbiage all those kits use. Regarding Moff Gideon and Stormtrooper, are we taking the Veers/Asajj/Grievous "on death" approach where a character dying then reviving immediately will trigger the unique ability bonuses or are we taking the Death Trooper approach where "defeated" literally means the character is dead and did not revive so he can apply Deathmark?

    Grievous might be what I was hoping would happen where Nute would be defeated, then revive, but then would still trigger the Metalloid Monstrosity bonuses even though Nute is not really gone for good. Is Moff Gideon and Stormtrooper only a scenario 2 definition where we need "gone for good" Imperial Troopers or will it act similarly to the examples listed and work in both scenarios 1 and 2?

    Clarification would be great as I am hoping Stormtrooper will become useful like how Pao and Hoth Rebel Scout did with Mon Mothma this year!

    "Defeated ally" has always meant they are dead at the time. If they are not dead, it doesnt count. Just like DT.

    When "ally is defeated" is used that is when they can be revived, but still have the effect.

    Yeah, the difference between stormtrooper and asajj is that Asajj has the text "(stacking)" on her bonuses
  • AhnaldT101
    140 posts Member
    edited December 2020
    Ultra wrote: »
    13mzybf0kh8a.png

    Going by ability descriptions, Stormtrooper loses 40% offense from his unique each time a defeated ally is revived

    So if you had Stormtrooper + Royal Guard + Old Daka in the same team, and Royal Guard is defeated, Stormtrooper gets +40% offense, but when Old Daka revives RG, he loses that 40% offense, and gains that 40% defense again

    So in Gideon's scenario, when he revives an imperial trooper with his unique, stormtrooper won't have the +40% offense even though they were defeated once since they aren't currently defeated anymore

    Thanks for your interpretation. Based off your comment and another person I talked to, Synergy, it seems like this all comes down to an English lesson. Defeated is being used as a verb for Veers, Grievous, Asajj "when an ally/enemy is *defeated*." Whereas Stormtrooper is using defeated as an adjective by looking for *defeated* Empire allies. Unfortunate if that is the case. I do not see Stormtrooper as a result getting the Pao and HRS treatment. Maybe the offense boosts Gideon grants in the lead might do something if Imperials are dying around Stormtrooper but I am not expecting something crazy like Pao and HRS. Thanks for the help guys!
  • AhnaldT101
    140 posts Member
    edited December 2020
    Ultra wrote: »
    I looked at the mechanics @AhnaldT101

    kjh1w9bdbbjq.png

    The unique triggers on:
    Encounter Start,Ally Killed,Ally Revived,Ally Summoned

    and whenever an ally is killed or revived:
    cykt5bpojy4k.png

    It checks the number of dead units and then multiplies that by +40% so you end up getting +(0*40%) offense boost if all units are revived from an AOE through Gideon's unique

    Just saw your screenshots of the mechanics after posting my comment and refreshing the page. For sure that answers the question then and settles the discussion. Totally forgot that SWGoH.gg has the mechanics breakdown. Thanks for the help, Ultra and Kyno!

  • Kyno
    31110 posts Moderator
    Ultra wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    AhnaldT101 wrote: »
    I have a question in regards to this part of Gideon's Leader ability, "Imperial Trooper allies gain 40% Offense and revive with 50% Health and Protection the first time they are defeated each encounter" in relation to Stormtrooper's unique ability Wall of Stormtroopers zeta, "Gain 40% Offense for each defeated Empire ally."

    How is "defeated" being interpreted in this situation? Right now it seems the game uses the term "defeated" in two different ways: 1) You were defeated but came back right away and 2) Being dead = being defeated for good. As an example, Veers' Aggressive Tactician, General Grievous' Metalloid Monstrosity, and Asajj's Rampage triggers in scenario 1 and scenario 2. "Whenever an enemy/ally is defeated" is the verbiage all those kits use. Regarding Moff Gideon and Stormtrooper, are we taking the Veers/Asajj/Grievous "on death" approach where a character dying then reviving immediately will trigger the unique ability bonuses or are we taking the Death Trooper approach where "defeated" literally means the character is dead and did not revive so he can apply Deathmark?

    Grievous might be what I was hoping would happen where Nute would be defeated, then revive, but then would still trigger the Metalloid Monstrosity bonuses even though Nute is not really gone for good. Is Moff Gideon and Stormtrooper only a scenario 2 definition where we need "gone for good" Imperial Troopers or will it act similarly to the examples listed and work in both scenarios 1 and 2?

    Clarification would be great as I am hoping Stormtrooper will become useful like how Pao and Hoth Rebel Scout did with Mon Mothma this year!

    "Defeated ally" has always meant they are dead at the time. If they are not dead, it doesnt count. Just like DT.

    When "ally is defeated" is used that is when they can be revived, but still have the effect.

    Yeah, the difference between stormtrooper and asajj is that Asajj has the text "(stacking)" on her bonuses

    Yes, but no the difference is in the wording, and they are consistent on this one, across the examples given above:

    For each defeated empire ally. - "defeated ally", meaning they are dead at that time.
    t4dfctkp1m1z.jpg

    Vs

    When an enemy or ally is defeated - "ally is defeated" - meaning goes through the act of dying, doesnt matter what happens after that point.
    u3daljihxdxe.jpg


    From all the examples given and anything we see in thier kits they have consistently used those phrases each time and the abilities have followed suit. This is more clearly used and followed than most other examples of things we see written in kits.
  • AhnaldT101 wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    13mzybf0kh8a.png

    Going by ability descriptions, Stormtrooper loses 40% offense from his unique each time a defeated ally is revived

    So if you had Stormtrooper + Royal Guard + Old Daka in the same team, and Royal Guard is defeated, Stormtrooper gets +40% offense, but when Old Daka revives RG, he loses that 40% offense, and gains that 40% defense again

    So in Gideon's scenario, when he revives an imperial trooper with his unique, stormtrooper won't have the +40% offense even though they were defeated once since they aren't currently defeated anymore

    Thanks for your interpretation. Based off your comment and another person I talked to, Synergy, it seems like this all comes down to an English lesson. Defeated is being used as a verb for Veers, Grievous, Asajj "when an ally/enemy is *defeated*." Whereas Stormtrooper is using defeated as an adjective by looking for *defeated* Empire allies. Unfortunate if that is the case. I do not see Stormtrooper as a result getting the Pao and HRS treatment. Maybe the offense boosts Gideon grants in the lead might do something if Imperials are dying around Stormtrooper but I am not expecting something crazy like Pao and HRS. Thanks for the help guys!

    Maybe a Stormtrooper rework is due ...

    Wall of Stormtroopers - Unique
    Final text: Stormtrooper gains 40% defense for each living ally and 40% offense whenever an ally is defeated.

    While Stormtrooper is active, Imperial Trooper allies have +30% defense.
    My discord - BabyYoda#4470 My swgoh.gg - https://swgoh.gg/p/648565123/
  • They should add a summoned unit for him like another death trooper.
  • HK22 wrote: »
    I'm thinking you could make an anti-BH team with Gideon, Snow, Starck, Storm, and Magma while keeping Veers, Piett, Death, Shore, and Range as a general all offensive team. A fast enough Piett can get the buff tm train going for Veers

    Everythings beat BH why waste gideon here?
  • While it would be fun to see crazy stacking offense from Stormtrooper, 40% is just too much. And probably why they worded it as they did. I could see it creating a paper zombie type of problem where you were rewarded for under-gearing toons. Especially if you put another revive ability in the team.
  • Zanir
    272 posts Member
    Something odd. The 2nd special is supposed to be a zeta, but lvl 8 of that ability is available at toon lvl 76. Zetas are always above lvl 80 abilities. Is this as intended?
  • Zanir wrote: »
    Something odd. The 2nd special is supposed to be a zeta, but lvl 8 of that ability is available at toon lvl 76. Zetas are always above lvl 80 abilities. Is this as intended?

    I hope so.
    My discord - BabyYoda#4470 My swgoh.gg - https://swgoh.gg/p/648565123/
  • his 2nd special and unique are just crazy good
    and since they're not restricted to empire or troopers he'll be another awesome plug and play char
    Legend#6873 | YouTube | swgoh.gg
  • Will be nerfed like Hux - but currently CG aims for money from all the quick 7* - than after the dust has settled and "damage is done" you can easily build in "empire only" or even "troopers only". I mean gideon is clearly pure empire, he shouldnt push any DS team or even more scary LS squads. Community will quickly find multiple ways to break/abuse him in his current state - i mean he is crazy fast too - so easy to get him online after GLs take a turn.
  • SemiGod
    2160 posts Member
    Similar to (pre-nerf) Hux, Moff Gideon has a fairly broken unique that makes him a crazy good plug & play character.

    You just throw him on any team and their damage is automatically cut by half (doesn’t even include the crit / crit dmg reduction)

    Im guessing he’s going to have a similar cadence to Hux where Gideon becomes crazy broken and used on nearly every arena team and then ultimately get nerfed so he has to be paired with full empire for his unique to work.
  • MD_Geist wrote: »
    Will be nerfed like Hux - but currently CG aims for money from all the quick 7* - than after the dust has settled and "damage is done" you can easily build in "empire only" or even "troopers only". I mean gideon is clearly pure empire, he shouldnt push any DS team or even more scary LS squads. Community will quickly find multiple ways to break/abuse him in his current state - i mean he is crazy fast too - so easy to get him online after GLs take a turn.
    SemiGod wrote: »
    Similar to (pre-nerf) Hux, Moff Gideon has a fairly broken unique that makes him a crazy good plug & play character.

    You just throw him on any team and their damage is automatically cut by half (doesn’t even include the crit / crit dmg reduction)

    Im guessing he’s going to have a similar cadence to Hux where Gideon becomes crazy broken and used on nearly every arena team and then ultimately get nerfed so he has to be paired with full empire for his unique to work.

    Don't worry, he's WAI and got thoroughly tested. I mean there are plenty of devs working on this game and on top of that there's a whole beta tester program. Right? Right!?
    Legend#6873 | YouTube | swgoh.gg
  • Yeah, this dude is definitely getting nerfed.
  • MD_Geist wrote: »
    Will be nerfed like Hux - but currently CG aims for money from all the quick 7*turn.

    Also a great way to lose money. Offering something and then changing it gets people refunds. Just saying
  • Obviously they tested him, especially with kylo that now has potential to take 4 turns before the enemy takes 1
  • Starslayer
    1275 posts Member
    edited December 2020
    SemiGod wrote: »
    You just throw him on any team and their damage is automatically cut by half

    Not against everyone but close enough.
    Bonus/malus are additive and not counted one after another. So if you have +30% offense, you will get 130/2=65 offense, but 100+30-50=80 offense. Still Bad, but not as much ;)
    Post edited by Starslayer on
  • Shame about the stormtrooper zeta I was expecting him to start deleting characters like in one of Luke event tiers. As such the zeta is still rather ropey.
  • AhnaldT101
    140 posts Member
    edited December 2020
    I have another another mechanics question for you all to help me figure out regarding Gideon's lead. Are the two sentences independent of each other inside the lead? Sentence one is in regards to requiring certain classes to earn the 30% Health and Protection bonus. Second sentence is in regards to being all Imperial Troopers. The question came up during the stream whether to get the offense, revive, and insight bonuses you need to satisfy the Dark Side Support, 2 Attackers, 1 Tank AND also all allies be Imperial Troopers. Or do you just need Imperial Troopers regardless of class tags to get those bonuses? It seems you only need the right class tags for the Health and Protection bonuses. Seems like it should be independent of the Imperial Trooper bonuses.

    On stream I brought in all Imperial Troopers and not the correct class requirements and I was not getting the appropriate Insight stacks when enemy leaders were taking turns. I understood that I would not get the health and protection bonus but I assumed we satisfied the all Imperial Trooper requirements so I should get the other bonuses.

    In case a video reference would help, you can see the question show up at the battle starting at 1:00:45 -

    We never got any Insight when an enemy leader takes a turn.
  • Kyno
    31110 posts Moderator
    AhnaldT101 wrote: »
    I have another another mechanics question for you all to help me figure out regarding Gideon's lead. Are the two sentences independent of each other inside the lead? Sentence one is in regards to requiring certain classes to earn the 30% Health and Protection bonus. Second sentence is in regards to being all Imperial Troopers. The question came up during the stream whether to get the offense, revive, and insight bonuses you need to satisfy the Dark Side Support, 2 Attackers, 1 Tank AND also all allies be Imperial Troopers. Or do you just need Imperial Troopers regardless of class tags to get those bonuses? It seems you only need the right class tags for the Health and Protection bonuses. Seems like it should be independent of the Imperial Trooper bonuses.

    On stream I brought in all Imperial Troopers and not the correct class requirements and I was not getting the appropriate Insight stacks when enemy leaders were taking turns. I understood that I would not get the health and protection bonus but I assumed we satisfied the all Imperial Trooper requirements so I should get the other bonuses.

    Yes, it seems it could have been worded better but you need to satisfy both clauses:
    - specific classes
    - all imperial troopers
  • Yeah it seems like either a bug or just not worded the best. Logically, the leader says - If A then B. If G then H. Nothing links those two statements together. If this whole interaction is the intended outcome I would think it should say - If A then B. If A + G then H
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