SEE definitely needs a buff!

Replies

  • ZeTwitch wrote: »
    There’s a lot more data on The Armorer now and it’s clear she has a big impact on SEE’s PVP viability. I still hope they adjust the IT counter and the GL solo issue. I think it’s important for SEE to have reliable counters , but I would appreciate a little RNG thrown in. It’s strange that a light side toon from a completely different faction works so well with him. It seems a bit silly running the two together, but then again I guess Rey works well with Malak so?

    If this was a dark side toon that worked specifically with SEE *cough General Pryde *cough and he had been part of SEE’s requirements I think a lot of us would have been thrilled.

    Completely agree. It's ridiculous that The Armourer (an LS character and Mandalorian) works better with SEE than characters from his own faction.

    Someone posted above the SKLR counter which if I remember rightly, included a supporting cast of Wat, GBA and Thrawn. Appreciate the theory crafting but that's a real dog's dinner of a squad.
  • TVF
    36527 posts Member
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    ZeTwitch wrote: »
    There’s a lot more data on The Armorer now and it’s clear she has a big impact on SEE’s PVP viability. I still hope they adjust the IT counter and the GL solo issue. I think it’s important for SEE to have reliable counters , but I would appreciate a little RNG thrown in. It’s strange that a light side toon from a completely different faction works so well with him. It seems a bit silly running the two together, but then again I guess Rey works well with Malak so?

    If this was a dark side toon that worked specifically with SEE *cough General Pryde *cough and he had been part of SEE’s requirements I think a lot of us would have been thrilled.

    Completely agree. It's ridiculous that The Armourer (an LS character and Mandalorian) works better with SEE than characters from his own faction.

    People really don't remember the days when faction squads did not dominate the meta. Titans, anyone? Who cares what you have to use in a team. If it works, it works.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    ZeTwitch wrote: »
    There’s a lot more data on The Armorer now and it’s clear she has a big impact on SEE’s PVP viability. I still hope they adjust the IT counter and the GL solo issue. I think it’s important for SEE to have reliable counters , but I would appreciate a little RNG thrown in. It’s strange that a light side toon from a completely different faction works so well with him. It seems a bit silly running the two together, but then again I guess Rey works well with Malak so?

    If this was a dark side toon that worked specifically with SEE *cough General Pryde *cough and he had been part of SEE’s requirements I think a lot of us would have been thrilled.

    Completely agree. It's ridiculous that The Armourer (an LS character and Mandalorian) works better with SEE than characters from his own faction.

    People really don't remember the days when faction squads did not dominate the meta. Titans, anyone? Who cares what you have to use in a team. If it works, it works.

    I remember it perfectly well but the trend over the last couple of years or so has been faction-based. I think the GLs should represent the best of their faction and for their squad to be faction based.

    Perhaps you don't. To each, their own.
  • TVF
    36527 posts Member
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    ZeTwitch wrote: »
    There’s a lot more data on The Armorer now and it’s clear she has a big impact on SEE’s PVP viability. I still hope they adjust the IT counter and the GL solo issue. I think it’s important for SEE to have reliable counters , but I would appreciate a little RNG thrown in. It’s strange that a light side toon from a completely different faction works so well with him. It seems a bit silly running the two together, but then again I guess Rey works well with Malak so?

    If this was a dark side toon that worked specifically with SEE *cough General Pryde *cough and he had been part of SEE’s requirements I think a lot of us would have been thrilled.

    Completely agree. It's ridiculous that The Armourer (an LS character and Mandalorian) works better with SEE than characters from his own faction.

    People really don't remember the days when faction squads did not dominate the meta. Titans, anyone? Who cares what you have to use in a team. If it works, it works.

    I remember it perfectly well but the trend over the last couple of years or so has been faction-based. I think the GLs should represent the best of their faction and for their squad to be faction based.

    Perhaps you don't. To each, their own.

    To each their own, sure.

    Calling it "ridiculous" is not the same as saying "I wish factions were more important but to each their own.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    ZeTwitch wrote: »
    There’s a lot more data on The Armorer now and it’s clear she has a big impact on SEE’s PVP viability. I still hope they adjust the IT counter and the GL solo issue. I think it’s important for SEE to have reliable counters , but I would appreciate a little RNG thrown in. It’s strange that a light side toon from a completely different faction works so well with him. It seems a bit silly running the two together, but then again I guess Rey works well with Malak so?

    If this was a dark side toon that worked specifically with SEE *cough General Pryde *cough and he had been part of SEE’s requirements I think a lot of us would have been thrilled.

    Completely agree. It's ridiculous that The Armourer (an LS character and Mandalorian) works better with SEE than characters from his own faction.

    People really don't remember the days when faction squads did not dominate the meta. Titans, anyone? Who cares what you have to use in a team. If it works, it works.

    I remember it perfectly well but the trend over the last couple of years or so has been faction-based. I think the GLs should represent the best of their faction and for their squad to be faction based.

    Perhaps you don't. To each, their own.

    To each their own, sure.

    Calling it "ridiculous" is not the same as saying "I wish factions were more important but to each their own.

    No, I think it is ridiculous that a light side Mandalorian is more use to SEE than any of his own faction. I'm perfectly happy to choose my own words, thanks.
  • TVF
    36527 posts Member
    Lol ok.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Decado wrote: »
    SithAmer wrote: »
    SithAmer wrote: »
    If SEE does not get a buff by next Thursday, I am thinking of posting my swgoh.gg profile here and crowd source what better things I can do with my hoard of gear, zetas and relic materials. With your support, I hope to emerge stronger than if I had pumped all of these to get SEE.

    If you don’t have slk he’s the way to go solely for raid rewards - I don’t have him but I have the other 3 (rey helps in p1 crancor), but I’m so far away from him if I went for him now I would never be able to get whatever new shiny toons they come out with.

    I’m not sure how slk does in arena tho as I don’t have him, but I know see + wat is easy to climb and if you’re in an older shard you prolly don’t see a lot of slk anymore in top 20

    Thanks. I already have SLKR and too far away from Rey to even try. I am farming MM and Chewpio but it will take 2 more months to 7 star them. After that, 2-3 months to get an Ult JML. So, need to think of something different and perhaps non-GL. Am waiting patiently but it is wearing too thin now.

    Am an F2P so can't really dump cash to get Armourer to R7 and use her with SEE

    Armorer doesnt need relics to work with SEE on offense. Mines G7 or G8 and works fine. We dont know the exact gear level needed (not sure if 3* G11 is going to quite cut it even with great mods) but a G12 7* Armorer can survive SLKRs aoe, allowing you to use a pretaunt and 3 man FO SLKR teams. SEE honestly isnt that bad right now. Raids are a writeoff, but with correct modding you can 2-3 man any of the GLs. Its the least fun I have had using a team personally though. You set up a couple of opening moves and can hit auto instead of playing though apparently some people think thats a bonus so whatever floats your goat.

    Hi Guys,

    I have been patiently waiting for buff to SEE. Now, I hear Armorer helps in PVP offense but not sure if SEE is still worth the heavy investment.

    Would request you all to help me decide what to do with my hoard (enough to gear up all required toons and take SEE to R7 plus 15 zetas).

    https://swgoh.gg/u/amer/

    Thanks in advance.
  • SithAmer wrote: »
    Decado wrote: »
    SithAmer wrote: »
    SithAmer wrote: »
    If SEE does not get a buff by next Thursday, I am thinking of posting my swgoh.gg profile here and crowd source what better things I can do with my hoard of gear, zetas and relic materials. With your support, I hope to emerge stronger than if I had pumped all of these to get SEE.

    If you don’t have slk he’s the way to go solely for raid rewards - I don’t have him but I have the other 3 (rey helps in p1 crancor), but I’m so far away from him if I went for him now I would never be able to get whatever new shiny toons they come out with.

    I’m not sure how slk does in arena tho as I don’t have him, but I know see + wat is easy to climb and if you’re in an older shard you prolly don’t see a lot of slk anymore in top 20

    Thanks. I already have SLKR and too far away from Rey to even try. I am farming MM and Chewpio but it will take 2 more months to 7 star them. After that, 2-3 months to get an Ult JML. So, need to think of something different and perhaps non-GL. Am waiting patiently but it is wearing too thin now.

    Am an F2P so can't really dump cash to get Armourer to R7 and use her with SEE

    Armorer doesnt need relics to work with SEE on offense. Mines G7 or G8 and works fine. We dont know the exact gear level needed (not sure if 3* G11 is going to quite cut it even with great mods) but a G12 7* Armorer can survive SLKRs aoe, allowing you to use a pretaunt and 3 man FO SLKR teams. SEE honestly isnt that bad right now. Raids are a writeoff, but with correct modding you can 2-3 man any of the GLs. Its the least fun I have had using a team personally though. You set up a couple of opening moves and can hit auto instead of playing though apparently some people think thats a bonus so whatever floats your goat.

    Hi Guys,

    I have been patiently waiting for buff to SEE. Now, I hear Armorer helps in PVP offense but not sure if SEE is still worth the heavy investment.

    Would request you all to help me decide what to do with my hoard (enough to gear up all required toons and take SEE to R7 plus 15 zetas).

    https://swgoh.gg/u/amer/

    Thanks in advance.

    He's a strong character on offence anyway but that is really the only place he shines. Yes, he may get more points in DS TB but it's a big investment for that.

    Plus look at some of the dross that needs taking to relic level as prereqs - RG etc plus the crowning **** of r7 Sideous.

    In retrospect, I would not have gone for him.
  • SithAmer wrote: »
    Decado wrote: »
    SithAmer wrote: »
    SithAmer wrote: »
    If SEE does not get a buff by next Thursday, I am thinking of posting my swgoh.gg profile here and crowd source what better things I can do with my hoard of gear, zetas and relic materials. With your support, I hope to emerge stronger than if I had pumped all of these to get SEE.

    If you don’t have slk he’s the way to go solely for raid rewards - I don’t have him but I have the other 3 (rey helps in p1 crancor), but I’m so far away from him if I went for him now I would never be able to get whatever new shiny toons they come out with.

    I’m not sure how slk does in arena tho as I don’t have him, but I know see + wat is easy to climb and if you’re in an older shard you prolly don’t see a lot of slk anymore in top 20

    Thanks. I already have SLKR and too far away from Rey to even try. I am farming MM and Chewpio but it will take 2 more months to 7 star them. After that, 2-3 months to get an Ult JML. So, need to think of something different and perhaps non-GL. Am waiting patiently but it is wearing too thin now.

    Am an F2P so can't really dump cash to get Armourer to R7 and use her with SEE

    Armorer doesnt need relics to work with SEE on offense. Mines G7 or G8 and works fine. We dont know the exact gear level needed (not sure if 3* G11 is going to quite cut it even with great mods) but a G12 7* Armorer can survive SLKRs aoe, allowing you to use a pretaunt and 3 man FO SLKR teams. SEE honestly isnt that bad right now. Raids are a writeoff, but with correct modding you can 2-3 man any of the GLs. Its the least fun I have had using a team personally though. You set up a couple of opening moves and can hit auto instead of playing though apparently some people think thats a bonus so whatever floats your goat.

    Hi Guys,

    I have been patiently waiting for buff to SEE. Now, I hear Armorer helps in PVP offense but not sure if SEE is still worth the heavy investment.

    Would request you all to help me decide what to do with my hoard (enough to gear up all required toons and take SEE to R7 plus 15 zetas).

    https://swgoh.gg/u/amer/

    Thanks in advance.

    SEE is no better value than any other GL, and his only real place to shine is offense. You may be able to climb a bit higher in arena compared to another GL. You probably wont hold very well in most shards though. LS GLs are generally better due to LS TB performance being more valuable than DS TB performance, and the other three all have decent or very good teams for challenge rancor. SEE is overall the least useful of the 4 imo. Good chance we see another GL announcement in the coming 2-3 months though. Probably worth hoarding what you need to unlock one, see whats coming and then make a choice later.
  • Nikoms565
    14242 posts Member
    edited January 2021
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    ZeTwitch wrote: »
    There’s a lot more data on The Armorer now and it’s clear she has a big impact on SEE’s PVP viability. I still hope they adjust the IT counter and the GL solo issue. I think it’s important for SEE to have reliable counters , but I would appreciate a little RNG thrown in. It’s strange that a light side toon from a completely different faction works so well with him. It seems a bit silly running the two together, but then again I guess Rey works well with Malak so?

    If this was a dark side toon that worked specifically with SEE *cough General Pryde *cough and he had been part of SEE’s requirements I think a lot of us would have been thrilled.

    Completely agree. It's ridiculous that The Armourer (an LS character and Mandalorian) works better with SEE than characters from his own faction.

    People really don't remember the days when faction squads did not dominate the meta. Titans, anyone? Who cares what you have to use in a team. If it works, it works.

    I remember it perfectly well but the trend over the last couple of years or so has been faction-based. I think the GLs should represent the best of their faction and for their squad to be faction based.

    Perhaps you don't. To each, their own.

    To each their own, sure.

    Calling it "ridiculous" is not the same as saying "I wish factions were more important but to each their own.

    No, I think it is ridiculous that a light side Mandalorian is more use to SEE than any of his own faction. I'm perfectly happy to choose my own words, thanks.

    Interesting. Were you also complaining this hard about Wat always being needed in JKR/JML squads too? Or that JML isn't even the best leader for his own faction? Or the TW Rey defense teams that often feature Malak? You're not new. This is the way. And you know it.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Nikoms565 wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    ZeTwitch wrote: »
    There’s a lot more data on The Armorer now and it’s clear she has a big impact on SEE’s PVP viability. I still hope they adjust the IT counter and the GL solo issue. I think it’s important for SEE to have reliable counters , but I would appreciate a little RNG thrown in. It’s strange that a light side toon from a completely different faction works so well with him. It seems a bit silly running the two together, but then again I guess Rey works well with Malak so?

    If this was a dark side toon that worked specifically with SEE *cough General Pryde *cough and he had been part of SEE’s requirements I think a lot of us would have been thrilled.

    Completely agree. It's ridiculous that The Armourer (an LS character and Mandalorian) works better with SEE than characters from his own faction.

    People really don't remember the days when faction squads did not dominate the meta. Titans, anyone? Who cares what you have to use in a team. If it works, it works.

    I remember it perfectly well but the trend over the last couple of years or so has been faction-based. I think the GLs should represent the best of their faction and for their squad to be faction based.

    Perhaps you don't. To each, their own.

    To each their own, sure.

    Calling it "ridiculous" is not the same as saying "I wish factions were more important but to each their own.

    No, I think it is ridiculous that a light side Mandalorian is more use to SEE than any of his own faction. I'm perfectly happy to choose my own words, thanks.

    Interesting. Were you also complaining this hard about Wat always being needed in JKR/JML squads too? Or that JML isn't even the best leader for his own faction? Or the TW Rey defense teams that often feature Malak? You're not new. This is the way. And you know it.

    No, because this is a thread about SEE.
  • AlexanderG wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    ZeTwitch wrote: »
    There’s a lot more data on The Armorer now and it’s clear she has a big impact on SEE’s PVP viability. I still hope they adjust the IT counter and the GL solo issue. I think it’s important for SEE to have reliable counters , but I would appreciate a little RNG thrown in. It’s strange that a light side toon from a completely different faction works so well with him. It seems a bit silly running the two together, but then again I guess Rey works well with Malak so?

    If this was a dark side toon that worked specifically with SEE *cough General Pryde *cough and he had been part of SEE’s requirements I think a lot of us would have been thrilled.

    Completely agree. It's ridiculous that The Armourer (an LS character and Mandalorian) works better with SEE than characters from his own faction.

    People really don't remember the days when faction squads did not dominate the meta. Titans, anyone? Who cares what you have to use in a team. If it works, it works.

    I remember it perfectly well but the trend over the last couple of years or so has been faction-based. I think the GLs should represent the best of their faction and for their squad to be faction based.

    Perhaps you don't. To each, their own.

    To each their own, sure.

    Calling it "ridiculous" is not the same as saying "I wish factions were more important but to each their own.

    No, I think it is ridiculous that a light side Mandalorian is more use to SEE than any of his own faction. I'm perfectly happy to choose my own words, thanks.

    Interesting. Were you also complaining this hard about Wat always being needed in JKR/JML squads too? Or that JML isn't even the best leader for his own faction? Or the TW Rey defense teams that often feature Malak? You're not new. This is the way. And you know it.

    No, because this is a thread about SEE.

    It’s funny because it’s been stated multiple times in this thread that JML needs a touch up too, god forbid he looks through the pages ha.
  • AlexanderG wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    ZeTwitch wrote: »
    There’s a lot more data on The Armorer now and it’s clear she has a big impact on SEE’s PVP viability. I still hope they adjust the IT counter and the GL solo issue. I think it’s important for SEE to have reliable counters , but I would appreciate a little RNG thrown in. It’s strange that a light side toon from a completely different faction works so well with him. It seems a bit silly running the two together, but then again I guess Rey works well with Malak so?

    If this was a dark side toon that worked specifically with SEE *cough General Pryde *cough and he had been part of SEE’s requirements I think a lot of us would have been thrilled.

    Completely agree. It's ridiculous that The Armourer (an LS character and Mandalorian) works better with SEE than characters from his own faction.

    People really don't remember the days when faction squads did not dominate the meta. Titans, anyone? Who cares what you have to use in a team. If it works, it works.

    I remember it perfectly well but the trend over the last couple of years or so has been faction-based. I think the GLs should represent the best of their faction and for their squad to be faction based.

    Perhaps you don't. To each, their own.

    To each their own, sure.

    Calling it "ridiculous" is not the same as saying "I wish factions were more important but to each their own.

    No, I think it is ridiculous that a light side Mandalorian is more use to SEE than any of his own faction. I'm perfectly happy to choose my own words, thanks.

    Interesting. Were you also complaining this hard about Wat always being needed in JKR/JML squads too? Or that JML isn't even the best leader for his own faction? Or the TW Rey defense teams that often feature Malak? You're not new. This is the way. And you know it.

    No, because this is a thread about SEE.

    It’s funny because it’s been stated multiple times in this thread that JML needs a touch up too, god forbid he looks through the pages ha.

    Indeed, I've stated it myself.
  • TVF wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    ZeTwitch wrote: »
    There’s a lot more data on The Armorer now and it’s clear she has a big impact on SEE’s PVP viability. I still hope they adjust the IT counter and the GL solo issue. I think it’s important for SEE to have reliable counters , but I would appreciate a little RNG thrown in. It’s strange that a light side toon from a completely different faction works so well with him. It seems a bit silly running the two together, but then again I guess Rey works well with Malak so?

    If this was a dark side toon that worked specifically with SEE *cough General Pryde *cough and he had been part of SEE’s requirements I think a lot of us would have been thrilled.

    Completely agree. It's ridiculous that The Armourer (an LS character and Mandalorian) works better with SEE than characters from his own faction.

    People really don't remember the days when faction squads did not dominate the meta. Titans, anyone? Who cares what you have to use in a team. If it works, it works.

    1st. Rey (and Kylo) were sold as characters that were designed to work with the entire light side and dark side respectively, unlike JML and SEE who are entirely faction based GLs.
    2nd. Rey being used with Jedi has more to do with how extremely powerfull that faction is and especially has become since JKL was released, rather than her synergizing better with them than Resistance. This is very different from SEE being used in cheesy 2 and 3 man squads with wat or armorer, which revolve around the fact that SEE becomes more powerfull with some passive protection recovery than with an actual team of Sith.
  • Nikoms565 wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    ZeTwitch wrote: »
    There’s a lot more data on The Armorer now and it’s clear she has a big impact on SEE’s PVP viability. I still hope they adjust the IT counter and the GL solo issue. I think it’s important for SEE to have reliable counters , but I would appreciate a little RNG thrown in. It’s strange that a light side toon from a completely different faction works so well with him. It seems a bit silly running the two together, but then again I guess Rey works well with Malak so?

    If this was a dark side toon that worked specifically with SEE *cough General Pryde *cough and he had been part of SEE’s requirements I think a lot of us would have been thrilled.

    Completely agree. It's ridiculous that The Armourer (an LS character and Mandalorian) works better with SEE than characters from his own faction.

    People really don't remember the days when faction squads did not dominate the meta. Titans, anyone? Who cares what you have to use in a team. If it works, it works.

    I remember it perfectly well but the trend over the last couple of years or so has been faction-based. I think the GLs should represent the best of their faction and for their squad to be faction based.

    Perhaps you don't. To each, their own.

    To each their own, sure.

    Calling it "ridiculous" is not the same as saying "I wish factions were more important but to each their own.

    No, I think it is ridiculous that a light side Mandalorian is more use to SEE than any of his own faction. I'm perfectly happy to choose my own words, thanks.

    Interesting. Were you also complaining this hard about Wat always being needed in JKR/JML squads too? Or that JML isn't even the best leader for his own faction? Or the TW Rey defense teams that often feature Malak? You're not new. This is the way. And you know it.

    Okay I’ll bite.

    What JML teams *needed* Wat?

    He can beat SEE without Wat.
    He beats SLKR without Wat.
    He beats Rey without Wat

    Show me the SEE team that beats SLKR the way the Jericho JML team beats SEE.

    Show me the SEE vs SLKR defensive team that performs as well as Bastila Watt and JML vs SEE does.

    If the Armorer did on defense what Watt can do for JML. I would be thrilled. As for Malak and Rey I’ve mentioned them. I realize there is some mixing and matching, but lets not pretend like Rey doesn’t have several viable options. There is a BIG difference between using a toon to prevent a counter and using a toon simply to win.

    I assume rather than answering my questions you’ll fall back on old faith and just say something sarcastic, but if you have an actual response I will listen.
  • Nikoms565 wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    ZeTwitch wrote: »
    There’s a lot more data on The Armorer now and it’s clear she has a big impact on SEE’s PVP viability. I still hope they adjust the IT counter and the GL solo issue. I think it’s important for SEE to have reliable counters , but I would appreciate a little RNG thrown in. It’s strange that a light side toon from a completely different faction works so well with him. It seems a bit silly running the two together, but then again I guess Rey works well with Malak so?

    If this was a dark side toon that worked specifically with SEE *cough General Pryde *cough and he had been part of SEE’s requirements I think a lot of us would have been thrilled.

    Completely agree. It's ridiculous that The Armourer (an LS character and Mandalorian) works better with SEE than characters from his own faction.

    People really don't remember the days when faction squads did not dominate the meta. Titans, anyone? Who cares what you have to use in a team. If it works, it works.

    I remember it perfectly well but the trend over the last couple of years or so has been faction-based. I think the GLs should represent the best of their faction and for their squad to be faction based.

    Perhaps you don't. To each, their own.

    To each their own, sure.

    Calling it "ridiculous" is not the same as saying "I wish factions were more important but to each their own.

    No, I think it is ridiculous that a light side Mandalorian is more use to SEE than any of his own faction. I'm perfectly happy to choose my own words, thanks.

    Interesting. Were you also complaining this hard about Wat always being needed in JKR/JML squads too? Or that JML isn't even the best leader for his own faction? Or the TW Rey defense teams that often feature Malak? You're not new. This is the way. And you know it.

    JML lead doesnt need Wat. JKR lead is used more because its probably the second best leadership in the game, right after SLKR.
    SEE lead doesnt do anything for his team aside from the speed buff. 5% stacking mastery amounts to nothing. The heal from defeated allies is extremely lackluster, since it literally does nothing against teams who focuses on single target damage and isnt even that helpfull against teams with big AoEs since your teammates get no survivability at all and so many times gets killed as a group. The only reason people use SEE lead is because he needs it to reach his ultimate, which (unlike JML) hes practically useless without. This is the reason why the best SEE teams we see now are essentially SEE solos with Wat or armorer, since putting any sith with SEE is a futile effort. While JML is by no means perfect and should be tweaked to be the go to leader for is team, SEEs design as a sith is a complete and utter failure.
  • Nikoms565 wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    ZeTwitch wrote: »
    There’s a lot more data on The Armorer now and it’s clear she has a big impact on SEE’s PVP viability. I still hope they adjust the IT counter and the GL solo issue. I think it’s important for SEE to have reliable counters , but I would appreciate a little RNG thrown in. It’s strange that a light side toon from a completely different faction works so well with him. It seems a bit silly running the two together, but then again I guess Rey works well with Malak so?

    If this was a dark side toon that worked specifically with SEE *cough General Pryde *cough and he had been part of SEE’s requirements I think a lot of us would have been thrilled.

    Completely agree. It's ridiculous that The Armourer (an LS character and Mandalorian) works better with SEE than characters from his own faction.

    People really don't remember the days when faction squads did not dominate the meta. Titans, anyone? Who cares what you have to use in a team. If it works, it works.

    I remember it perfectly well but the trend over the last couple of years or so has been faction-based. I think the GLs should represent the best of their faction and for their squad to be faction based.

    Perhaps you don't. To each, their own.

    To each their own, sure.

    Calling it "ridiculous" is not the same as saying "I wish factions were more important but to each their own.

    No, I think it is ridiculous that a light side Mandalorian is more use to SEE than any of his own faction. I'm perfectly happy to choose my own words, thanks.

    Interesting. Were you also complaining this hard about Wat always being needed in JKR/JML squads too? Or that JML isn't even the best leader for his own faction? Or the TW Rey defense teams that often feature Malak? You're not new. This is the way. And you know it.

    JML lead doesnt need Wat. JKR lead is used more because its probably the second best leadership in the game, right after SLKR.
    SEE lead doesnt do anything for his team aside from the speed buff. 5% stacking mastery amounts to nothing. The heal from defeated allies is extremely lackluster, since it literally does nothing against teams who focuses on single target damage and isnt even that helpfull against teams with big AoEs since your teammates get no survivability at all and so many times gets killed as a group. The only reason people use SEE lead is because he needs it to reach his ultimate, which (unlike JML) hes practically useless without. This is the reason why the best SEE teams we see now are essentially SEE solos with Wat or armorer, since putting any sith with SEE is a futile effort. While JML is by no means perfect and should be tweaked to be the go to leader for is team, SEEs design as a sith is a complete and utter failure.

    SEE is not "a complete and utter failure". When you put it like that, nobody will take it seriously. Rather, he's a bit lacklustre in several areas and needs some tweaks to give him real strength. Nothing huge, he just needs to be properly viable.
  • Nikoms565 wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    ZeTwitch wrote: »
    There’s a lot more data on The Armorer now and it’s clear she has a big impact on SEE’s PVP viability. I still hope they adjust the IT counter and the GL solo issue. I think it’s important for SEE to have reliable counters , but I would appreciate a little RNG thrown in. It’s strange that a light side toon from a completely different faction works so well with him. It seems a bit silly running the two together, but then again I guess Rey works well with Malak so?

    If this was a dark side toon that worked specifically with SEE *cough General Pryde *cough and he had been part of SEE’s requirements I think a lot of us would have been thrilled.

    Completely agree. It's ridiculous that The Armourer (an LS character and Mandalorian) works better with SEE than characters from his own faction.

    People really don't remember the days when faction squads did not dominate the meta. Titans, anyone? Who cares what you have to use in a team. If it works, it works.

    I remember it perfectly well but the trend over the last couple of years or so has been faction-based. I think the GLs should represent the best of their faction and for their squad to be faction based.

    Perhaps you don't. To each, their own.

    To each their own, sure.

    Calling it "ridiculous" is not the same as saying "I wish factions were more important but to each their own.

    No, I think it is ridiculous that a light side Mandalorian is more use to SEE than any of his own faction. I'm perfectly happy to choose my own words, thanks.

    Interesting. Were you also complaining this hard about Wat always being needed in JKR/JML squads too? Or that JML isn't even the best leader for his own faction? Or the TW Rey defense teams that often feature Malak? You're not new. This is the way. And you know it.

    JML lead doesnt need Wat. JKR lead is used more because its probably the second best leadership in the game, right after SLKR.
    SEE lead doesnt do anything for his team aside from the speed buff. 5% stacking mastery amounts to nothing. The heal from defeated allies is extremely lackluster, since it literally does nothing against teams who focuses on single target damage and isnt even that helpfull against teams with big AoEs since your teammates get no survivability at all and so many times gets killed as a group. The only reason people use SEE lead is because he needs it to reach his ultimate, which (unlike JML) hes practically useless without. This is the reason why the best SEE teams we see now are essentially SEE solos with Wat or armorer, since putting any sith with SEE is a futile effort. While JML is by no means perfect and should be tweaked to be the go to leader for is team, SEEs design as a sith is a complete and utter failure.

    SEE is not "a complete and utter failure". When you put it like that, nobody will take it seriously. Rather, he's a bit lacklustre in several areas and needs some tweaks to give him real strength. Nothing huge, he just needs to be properly viable.

    I think you missed "design as a sith" that came right before that statement, which I stand wholeheartedly by.
  • Nikoms565
    14242 posts Member
    edited January 2021
    ZeTwitch wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    ZeTwitch wrote: »
    There’s a lot more data on The Armorer now and it’s clear she has a big impact on SEE’s PVP viability. I still hope they adjust the IT counter and the GL solo issue. I think it’s important for SEE to have reliable counters , but I would appreciate a little RNG thrown in. It’s strange that a light side toon from a completely different faction works so well with him. It seems a bit silly running the two together, but then again I guess Rey works well with Malak so?

    If this was a dark side toon that worked specifically with SEE *cough General Pryde *cough and he had been part of SEE’s requirements I think a lot of us would have been thrilled.

    Completely agree. It's ridiculous that The Armourer (an LS character and Mandalorian) works better with SEE than characters from his own faction.

    People really don't remember the days when faction squads did not dominate the meta. Titans, anyone? Who cares what you have to use in a team. If it works, it works.

    I remember it perfectly well but the trend over the last couple of years or so has been faction-based. I think the GLs should represent the best of their faction and for their squad to be faction based.

    Perhaps you don't. To each, their own.

    To each their own, sure.

    Calling it "ridiculous" is not the same as saying "I wish factions were more important but to each their own.

    No, I think it is ridiculous that a light side Mandalorian is more use to SEE than any of his own faction. I'm perfectly happy to choose my own words, thanks.

    Interesting. Were you also complaining this hard about Wat always being needed in JKR/JML squads too? Or that JML isn't even the best leader for his own faction? Or the TW Rey defense teams that often feature Malak? You're not new. This is the way. And you know it.

    Okay I’ll bite.

    What JML teams *needed* Wat?
    Only all the ones at the top : https://swgoh.gg/stats/meta-report/1/#squads.
    It's the most common comp by a significant margin. That's not sarcasm - it's fact.

    In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Konju
    1142 posts Member
    I believe the point was that on offense JML doesn’t “need” Wat, which is absolutely true. The post you are quoting had much more to it and did actually (correctly) predict you would not answer the rest of the post.
  • Konju wrote: »
    I believe the point was that on offense JML doesn’t “need” Wat, which is absolutely true. The post you are quoting had much more to it and did actually (correctly) predict you would not answer the rest of the post.

    Yep, that's his thing.
  • Nikoms565 wrote: »
    ZeTwitch wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    ZeTwitch wrote: »
    There’s a lot more data on The Armorer now and it’s clear she has a big impact on SEE’s PVP viability. I still hope they adjust the IT counter and the GL solo issue. I think it’s important for SEE to have reliable counters , but I would appreciate a little RNG thrown in. It’s strange that a light side toon from a completely different faction works so well with him. It seems a bit silly running the two together, but then again I guess Rey works well with Malak so?

    If this was a dark side toon that worked specifically with SEE *cough General Pryde *cough and he had been part of SEE’s requirements I think a lot of us would have been thrilled.

    Completely agree. It's ridiculous that The Armourer (an LS character and Mandalorian) works better with SEE than characters from his own faction.

    People really don't remember the days when faction squads did not dominate the meta. Titans, anyone? Who cares what you have to use in a team. If it works, it works.

    I remember it perfectly well but the trend over the last couple of years or so has been faction-based. I think the GLs should represent the best of their faction and for their squad to be faction based.

    Perhaps you don't. To each, their own.

    To each their own, sure.

    Calling it "ridiculous" is not the same as saying "I wish factions were more important but to each their own.

    No, I think it is ridiculous that a light side Mandalorian is more use to SEE than any of his own faction. I'm perfectly happy to choose my own words, thanks.

    Interesting. Were you also complaining this hard about Wat always being needed in JKR/JML squads too? Or that JML isn't even the best leader for his own faction? Or the TW Rey defense teams that often feature Malak? You're not new. This is the way. And you know it.

    Okay I’ll bite.

    What JML teams *needed* Wat?
    Only all the ones at the top : https://swgoh.gg/stats/meta-report/1/#squads.
    It's the most common comp by a significant margin. That's not sarcasm - it's fact.

    I said “need” not “uses”. Surely you’re not suggesting that a JML without Wat can’t beat almost every other team on that list.

    Once again Wat is used because it makes the team better. He isn’t “needed”.
  • ZeTwitch wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    ZeTwitch wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    ZeTwitch wrote: »
    There’s a lot more data on The Armorer now and it’s clear she has a big impact on SEE’s PVP viability. I still hope they adjust the IT counter and the GL solo issue. I think it’s important for SEE to have reliable counters , but I would appreciate a little RNG thrown in. It’s strange that a light side toon from a completely different faction works so well with him. It seems a bit silly running the two together, but then again I guess Rey works well with Malak so?

    If this was a dark side toon that worked specifically with SEE *cough General Pryde *cough and he had been part of SEE’s requirements I think a lot of us would have been thrilled.

    Completely agree. It's ridiculous that The Armourer (an LS character and Mandalorian) works better with SEE than characters from his own faction.

    People really don't remember the days when faction squads did not dominate the meta. Titans, anyone? Who cares what you have to use in a team. If it works, it works.

    I remember it perfectly well but the trend over the last couple of years or so has been faction-based. I think the GLs should represent the best of their faction and for their squad to be faction based.

    Perhaps you don't. To each, their own.

    To each their own, sure.

    Calling it "ridiculous" is not the same as saying "I wish factions were more important but to each their own.

    No, I think it is ridiculous that a light side Mandalorian is more use to SEE than any of his own faction. I'm perfectly happy to choose my own words, thanks.

    Interesting. Were you also complaining this hard about Wat always being needed in JKR/JML squads too? Or that JML isn't even the best leader for his own faction? Or the TW Rey defense teams that often feature Malak? You're not new. This is the way. And you know it.

    Okay I’ll bite.

    What JML teams *needed* Wat?
    Only all the ones at the top : https://swgoh.gg/stats/meta-report/1/#squads.
    It's the most common comp by a significant margin. That's not sarcasm - it's fact.

    I said “need” not “uses”. Surely you’re not suggesting that a JML without Wat can’t beat almost every other team on that list.

    Once again Wat is used because it makes the team better. He isn’t “needed”.

    Yep, scanned my top 20. 13 are JML only 1 has Wat.
  • He doesn't need a buff he needs a paywall character. Right now he's just DR without a Malak.
  • There also seems to be a lot of pushback against the people who are not thrilled about SEE using a strange mismatch of toons. I would think it would be obvious why thats undesirable, but lets flip it.

    If JML didn’t have great synergy with Jedi and the team that was the most effective was JML, Nest, Wat, Thrawn, and Darth Vader

    That wouldn’t be just a little weird to you?

    Before anyone brings up Rey. She is probably the best parallel. However there are a few differences. She does have synergy with her faction. She has a ton of flexibility. Aside from Malak (which again is just to prevent counters) the toons she pairs with are all LS. She and SLKR have synergy with both LS and DR respectively. If you’re going to restrict the new GL’s to one faction you want that synergy to be top notch. With JML they did an excellent job. With SEE thats just not the case.

    This doesn’t matter as much, but from a visual stand point. Rey with scoundrels it’s not that crazy. She has great chemistry with Han, Chewie, and Lando in the movies. If they made a spin off movie where Rey works with a rag tag team of scoundrels it wouldn’t be too far out there. A movie where Sith Eternal Emperor has an off shoot adventure with GBA, Wat Tambor, a Mandalorian known as “The Armorer”, and Han Solo that would be a bit...weird.

    Finally if some of the people who came in here said. It’s strange that a toon like The Armorer helps SEE out the way she does, but she’s made him arguably the most flexible offensive toon in the game and thats worth a lot. I wouldn’t take issue. Some of you have done exactly this. We don’t agree 100% but we can have a discuession. Thats the right approach. Not this popping in calling everyone cry babies, posting a single unanalyzed data point and then acting like you just mic dropped.
  • Nikoms565
    14242 posts Member
    edited January 2021
    Konju wrote: »
    I believe the point was that on offense JML doesn’t “need” Wat, which is absolutely true. The post you are quoting had much more to it and did actually (correctly) predict you would not answer the rest of the post.

    Go back and read the posts quoted then. The original point was that it was ridiculous that the LS armorer is more useful to SEE than a Sith. I was merely stating (and backing up with the swgoh.gg meta report) that the DS Wat is obviously more useful to that team than another Jedi.

    In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    I believe the point was that on offense JML doesn’t “need” Wat, which is absolutely true. The post you are quoting had much more to it and did actually (correctly) predict you would not answer the rest of the post.

    Go back and read the posts quoted then. The original point was that it was ridiculous that the LS armorer is more useful to SEE than a Sith. I was merely stating (and backing up with the swgoh.gg meta report) that the DS Wat is obviously more useful to that team than another Jedi.

    Albeit a squad that is still made up of Jedi, for the most part and there's plenty of JML squads that don't use Wat at all.
  • Nikoms565 wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    ZeTwitch wrote: »
    There’s a lot more data on The Armorer now and it’s clear she has a big impact on SEE’s PVP viability. I still hope they adjust the IT counter and the GL solo issue. I think it’s important for SEE to have reliable counters , but I would appreciate a little RNG thrown in. It’s strange that a light side toon from a completely different faction works so well with him. It seems a bit silly running the two together, but then again I guess Rey works well with Malak so?

    If this was a dark side toon that worked specifically with SEE *cough General Pryde *cough and he had been part of SEE’s requirements I think a lot of us would have been thrilled.

    Completely agree. It's ridiculous that The Armourer (an LS character and Mandalorian) works better with SEE than characters from his own faction.

    People really don't remember the days when faction squads did not dominate the meta. Titans, anyone? Who cares what you have to use in a team. If it works, it works.

    I remember it perfectly well but the trend over the last couple of years or so has been faction-based. I think the GLs should represent the best of their faction and for their squad to be faction based.

    Perhaps you don't. To each, their own.

    To each their own, sure.

    Calling it "ridiculous" is not the same as saying "I wish factions were more important but to each their own.

    No, I think it is ridiculous that a light side Mandalorian is more use to SEE than any of his own faction. I'm perfectly happy to choose my own words, thanks.

    Interesting. Were you also complaining this hard about Wat always being needed in JKR/JML squads too? Or that JML isn't even the best leader for his own faction? Or the TW Rey defense teams that often feature Malak? You're not new. This is the way. And you know it.

    JML lead doesnt need Wat. JKR lead is used more because its probably the second best leadership in the game, right after SLKR.
    SEE lead doesnt do anything for his team aside from the speed buff. 5% stacking mastery amounts to nothing. The heal from defeated allies is extremely lackluster, since it literally does nothing against teams who focuses on single target damage and isnt even that helpfull against teams with big AoEs since your teammates get no survivability at all and so many times gets killed as a group. The only reason people use SEE lead is because he needs it to reach his ultimate, which (unlike JML) hes practically useless without. This is the reason why the best SEE teams we see now are essentially SEE solos with Wat or armorer, since putting any sith with SEE is a futile effort. While JML is by no means perfect and should be tweaked to be the go to leader for is team, SEEs design as a sith is a complete and utter failure.

    SEE is not "a complete and utter failure". When you put it like that, nobody will take it seriously. Rather, he's a bit lacklustre in several areas and needs some tweaks to give him real strength. Nothing huge, he just needs to be properly viable.

    I think you missed "design as a sith" that came right before that statement, which I stand wholeheartedly by.

    You think I somehow missed that SEE is supposed to be a sith leader? I have nearly every sith at r7, the only one I don't have at relic levels is SET, and let me tell you SEE has been a relatively good lead for sith, and he does bring quite a bit to literally any sith you put him with. It's just that he could, and therefore should be better. He's not terrible. He's just lacking. And he still definitely needs some sort of fix.
  • Nikoms565 wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    ZeTwitch wrote: »
    There’s a lot more data on The Armorer now and it’s clear she has a big impact on SEE’s PVP viability. I still hope they adjust the IT counter and the GL solo issue. I think it’s important for SEE to have reliable counters , but I would appreciate a little RNG thrown in. It’s strange that a light side toon from a completely different faction works so well with him. It seems a bit silly running the two together, but then again I guess Rey works well with Malak so?

    If this was a dark side toon that worked specifically with SEE *cough General Pryde *cough and he had been part of SEE’s requirements I think a lot of us would have been thrilled.

    Completely agree. It's ridiculous that The Armourer (an LS character and Mandalorian) works better with SEE than characters from his own faction.

    People really don't remember the days when faction squads did not dominate the meta. Titans, anyone? Who cares what you have to use in a team. If it works, it works.

    I remember it perfectly well but the trend over the last couple of years or so has been faction-based. I think the GLs should represent the best of their faction and for their squad to be faction based.

    Perhaps you don't. To each, their own.

    To each their own, sure.

    Calling it "ridiculous" is not the same as saying "I wish factions were more important but to each their own.

    No, I think it is ridiculous that a light side Mandalorian is more use to SEE than any of his own faction. I'm perfectly happy to choose my own words, thanks.

    Interesting. Were you also complaining this hard about Wat always being needed in JKR/JML squads too? Or that JML isn't even the best leader for his own faction? Or the TW Rey defense teams that often feature Malak? You're not new. This is the way. And you know it.

    JML lead doesnt need Wat. JKR lead is used more because its probably the second best leadership in the game, right after SLKR.
    SEE lead doesnt do anything for his team aside from the speed buff. 5% stacking mastery amounts to nothing. The heal from defeated allies is extremely lackluster, since it literally does nothing against teams who focuses on single target damage and isnt even that helpfull against teams with big AoEs since your teammates get no survivability at all and so many times gets killed as a group. The only reason people use SEE lead is because he needs it to reach his ultimate, which (unlike JML) hes practically useless without. This is the reason why the best SEE teams we see now are essentially SEE solos with Wat or armorer, since putting any sith with SEE is a futile effort. While JML is by no means perfect and should be tweaked to be the go to leader for is team, SEEs design as a sith is a complete and utter failure.

    SEE is not "a complete and utter failure". When you put it like that, nobody will take it seriously. Rather, he's a bit lacklustre in several areas and needs some tweaks to give him real strength. Nothing huge, he just needs to be properly viable.

    I think you missed "design as a sith" that came right before that statement, which I stand wholeheartedly by.

    You think I somehow missed that SEE is supposed to be a sith leader? I have nearly every sith at r7, the only one I don't have at relic levels is SET, and let me tell you SEE has been a relatively good lead for sith, and he does bring quite a bit to literally any sith you put him with. It's just that he could, and therefore should be better. He's not terrible. He's just lacking. And he still definitely needs some sort of fix.

    Does he though? Let's put the issue of whether he be buffed or not to one side, I find his leadership to be poor and that's almost the point about the armourer, she does more for him that any of his own faction and she doesn't rely on his leadership - which doesn't really do that much for sith. I'll try later on my climb because it seems like you could use SEE, Wat / Armourer and really nothing else or anything else and it wouldn't make much difference.
  • AlexanderG wrote: »
    ZeTwitch wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    ZeTwitch wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    ZeTwitch wrote: »
    There’s a lot more data on The Armorer now and it’s clear she has a big impact on SEE’s PVP viability. I still hope they adjust the IT counter and the GL solo issue. I think it’s important for SEE to have reliable counters , but I would appreciate a little RNG thrown in. It’s strange that a light side toon from a completely different faction works so well with him. It seems a bit silly running the two together, but then again I guess Rey works well with Malak so?

    If this was a dark side toon that worked specifically with SEE *cough General Pryde *cough and he had been part of SEE’s requirements I think a lot of us would have been thrilled.

    Completely agree. It's ridiculous that The Armourer (an LS character and Mandalorian) works better with SEE than characters from his own faction.

    People really don't remember the days when faction squads did not dominate the meta. Titans, anyone? Who cares what you have to use in a team. If it works, it works.

    I remember it perfectly well but the trend over the last couple of years or so has been faction-based. I think the GLs should represent the best of their faction and for their squad to be faction based.

    Perhaps you don't. To each, their own.

    To each their own, sure.

    Calling it "ridiculous" is not the same as saying "I wish factions were more important but to each their own.

    No, I think it is ridiculous that a light side Mandalorian is more use to SEE than any of his own faction. I'm perfectly happy to choose my own words, thanks.

    Interesting. Were you also complaining this hard about Wat always being needed in JKR/JML squads too? Or that JML isn't even the best leader for his own faction? Or the TW Rey defense teams that often feature Malak? You're not new. This is the way. And you know it.

    Okay I’ll bite.

    What JML teams *needed* Wat?
    Only all the ones at the top : https://swgoh.gg/stats/meta-report/1/#squads.
    It's the most common comp by a significant margin. That's not sarcasm - it's fact.

    I said “need” not “uses”. Surely you’re not suggesting that a JML without Wat can’t beat almost every other team on that list.

    Once again Wat is used because it makes the team better. He isn’t “needed”.

    Yep, scanned my top 20. 13 are JML only 1 has Wat.

    After you've been presented with the global arena data, I don't see why you are reducing it back to anectodal. If you have a refutation, you should do it with the data avaliable to all of us and which is thousand folds more representative than your shard.
This discussion has been closed.