The Pit Challenge Tier & Relic 8 [MEGA]

Replies

  • Ultra
    11454 posts Moderator
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    Doja, the mechanics of this raid are breaking up guilds and bumming out the majority of players. Does the team require a "this sucks" button to grasp that? This kinda communication from CG is worse than no communication.

    It breaks guilds apart for the better

    The slackers need to pick up, or lose the top end players to newer guilds

    Competitive players are together, and the casual ones are together, as it should be

    This isn’t about competitive or not. Do you really think it’s ok to require guilds to re org based on time zones or have to wake up at 3am to drop damage because of the mechs of this raid? This isn’t about difficulty. It’s mechanics and set up of the raid that CG could easily change with minimal shift in difficulty and without opening the door for solos.

    No, I don't think that's okay, and that's one of the two complaints i have with the raid, which Doja is also pushing against internally

    I'm sure this will be corrected eventually
  • Deany123
    88 posts Member
    edited January 2021
    Ultra wrote: »
    Doja, the mechanics of this raid are breaking up guilds and bumming out the majority of players. Does the team require a "this sucks" button to grasp that? This kinda communication from CG is worse than no communication.

    It breaks guilds apart for the better

    The slackers need to pick up, or lose the top end players to newer guilds

    Competitive players are together, and the casual ones are together, as it should be

    I dont see how moving away from friends to a guild in my time zone is for the better. Granted it was my choice to move but with a guild so spread out we just couldn't get through p4. Just not enough members with free time at the same time.
    Am now in a guild that is beating the rancor but it feels hollow compared to how it would have done with 2 year plus friends
  • Ultra
    11454 posts Moderator
    Deany123 wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    Doja, the mechanics of this raid are breaking up guilds and bumming out the majority of players. Does the team require a "this sucks" button to grasp that? This kinda communication from CG is worse than no communication.

    It breaks guilds apart for the better

    The slackers need to pick up, or lose the top end players to newer guilds

    Competitive players are together, and the casual ones are together, as it should be

    I dont see how moving away from friends to a guild in my time zone is for the better. Granted it was my choice to move but with a guild so spread out we just couldn't get through p4. Just not enough members with free time at the same time.
    Am now in a guild that is beating the rancor but it feels hollow compared to how it would have done with 2 year plus friends

    You can still stay in the server and keep in touch with your friends, and make new ones from the new guild
  • Ultra wrote: »
    Deany123 wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    Doja, the mechanics of this raid are breaking up guilds and bumming out the majority of players. Does the team require a "this sucks" button to grasp that? This kinda communication from CG is worse than no communication.

    It breaks guilds apart for the better

    The slackers need to pick up, or lose the top end players to newer guilds

    Competitive players are together, and the casual ones are together, as it should be

    I dont see how moving away from friends to a guild in my time zone is for the better. Granted it was my choice to move but with a guild so spread out we just couldn't get through p4. Just not enough members with free time at the same time.
    Am now in a guild that is beating the rancor but it feels hollow compared to how it would have done with 2 year plus friends

    You can still stay in the server and keep in touch with your friends, and make new ones from the new guild

    I hope you lose a bunch of people from your guild if that is your view. This raid is total trash for multi time zone guilds and a joke to have everyone on at the same time. The continued line from CG of “we are looking at it” is total bunk. Everyone knows this raid experience is awful for players. I’m pretty sure they pushed this trash out on purpose to sell packs. Create a problem and sell a solution...that should be the company motto.
  • I shared that meme with the team in order to boost the argument that we need a confirm run button.

    Kyno can share memes and I expect them to have virtually no impact on the devs choices to implement change. Is that the best argument that you can make on the players behalf? What about the data that's theoretically being reviewed... Any word on how that lines up versus expectations? How about whether or not the raid stacking mechanic was broken during internal testing (like it was when it was released)? Anything else you can share with us or are we back to 'August'?
  • The answer will most likely be another non answer with no useful information. You can most likely paraphrase the response as we are looking at the data, in the future something will happen or we will let you know down the road...but in reality everything is WAI unless it gives the play base an advantage.
  • Jakdnels wrote: »
    I shared that meme with the team in order to boost the argument that we need a confirm run button.

    Kyno can share memes and I expect them to have virtually no impact on the devs choices to implement change. Is that the best argument that you can make on the players behalf? What about the data that's theoretically being reviewed... Any word on how that lines up versus expectations? How about whether or not the raid stacking mechanic was broken during internal testing (like it was when it was released)? Anything else you can share with us or are we back to 'August'?

    I didn't say this was the only thing I was doing to convey sentiment, and I never said it was the best argument to be made. There's nothing more to say this week than I said last week because things take time. We saw this with the shard double drop rates; it took time and then we were able to get those changed and it was awesome. We've also seen things take time and then not go the way y'all were hoping, which makes my job tough, but I know what I signed up for.

    When I have something concrete to report, I will. To reiterate, discussions are happening. I have no idea what the result of those discussions will be. If I could share more, I would. But, the last thing I want to do is promise something or allude to an outcome that may not happen. That doesn't do anyone any good.

    And if you think this means things are back to August, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. It's not going to change how I do my part to help make things happen when I can.
  • IronCross wrote: »
    The answer will most likely be another non answer with no useful information. You can most likely paraphrase the response as we are looking at the data, in the future something will happen or we will let you know down the road...but in reality everything is WAI unless it gives the play base an advantage.

    You nailed it
  • I shared that meme with the team in order to boost the argument that we need a confirm run button.
    A tiny band aid on an arterial wound I'm afraid.

    Inadvertent posting of damage is merely a lesser symptom of the greater problems that raid-wide power mechanics like the Pit Fighter II introduce.

    This is not the way.
  • Ultra
    11454 posts Moderator
    IronCross wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    Deany123 wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    Doja, the mechanics of this raid are breaking up guilds and bumming out the majority of players. Does the team require a "this sucks" button to grasp that? This kinda communication from CG is worse than no communication.

    It breaks guilds apart for the better

    The slackers need to pick up, or lose the top end players to newer guilds

    Competitive players are together, and the casual ones are together, as it should be

    I dont see how moving away from friends to a guild in my time zone is for the better. Granted it was my choice to move but with a guild so spread out we just couldn't get through p4. Just not enough members with free time at the same time.
    Am now in a guild that is beating the rancor but it feels hollow compared to how it would have done with 2 year plus friends

    You can still stay in the server and keep in touch with your friends, and make new ones from the new guild

    I hope you lose a bunch of people from your guild if that is your view. This raid is total trash for multi time zone guilds and a joke to have everyone on at the same time. The continued line from CG of “we are looking at it” is total bunk. Everyone knows this raid experience is awful for players. I’m pretty sure they pushed this trash out on purpose to sell packs. Create a problem and sell a solution...that should be the company motto.
    lol

    i get that you are frustrated with the raid, but there is no need to be so toxic it

    Territory Wars is also bad for multi-time zone guilds but players are able to make it work, just like they'll adapt with the raid until (IF) CG changes something about it
  • Ultra wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    Doja, the mechanics of this raid are breaking up guilds and bumming out the majority of players. Does the team require a "this sucks" button to grasp that? This kinda communication from CG is worse than no communication.

    It breaks guilds apart for the better

    The slackers need to pick up, or lose the top end players to newer guilds

    Competitive players are together, and the casual ones are together, as it should be

    This isn’t about competitive or not. Do you really think it’s ok to require guilds to re org based on time zones or have to wake up at 3am to drop damage because of the mechs of this raid? This isn’t about difficulty. It’s mechanics and set up of the raid that CG could easily change with minimal shift in difficulty and without opening the door for solos.

    No, I don't think that's okay, and that's one of the two complaints i have with the raid, which Doja is also pushing against internally

    I'm sure this will be corrected eventually

    Then saying breaking guilds apart for the better is the wrong stance to take. My guild has been making great strides in LSGeoTB, and other aspects of the game but because of time zone differences and real life obligations, we probably need to reorganize and have lost several key members due to the mechanics of this raid.

    For the raid itself I have no issue with difficulty. I can even accept the R5 reqs for the raid itself. Fine. I think r3 would be more fair but ok. Fine.

    The reward pool is a big problem. They need to get rid of the trash gear in the pool and make the gear amounts more lucrative.

    The stacking mechanic is absolutely the worst part of this raid. All they need to do is make it a personal run mechanic rather than universal. Every run stacks after a specific damage count gets hit. It keeps the difficulty as is, and still prevents solos and requires multiple teams to hit per person. This amount of coordination is even hated by one of their own devs. The fact they’re being so stubborn to this point is beyond telling and I pity anyone that still spends until they fix this mechanic
  • Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    I shared that meme with the team in order to boost the argument that we need a confirm run button.
    A tiny band aid on an arterial wound I'm afraid.

    Inadvertent posting of damage is merely a lesser symptom of the greater problems that raid-wide power mechanics like the Pit Fighter II introduce.

    This is not the way.

    I get where you're coming from, and have raised those player concerns as well. So, when I said I was using the meme to help make the argument for the button, I wasn't suggesting that was all I was doing to relay player sentiment surrounding this Raid.
  • I shared that meme with the team in order to boost the argument that we need a confirm run button.

    We need more than that. Maybe TopCash can be bothered to actually listen to you and the community for once
  • Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    I shared that meme with the team in order to boost the argument that we need a confirm run button.
    A tiny band aid on an arterial wound I'm afraid.

    Inadvertent posting of damage is merely a lesser symptom of the greater problems that raid-wide power mechanics like the Pit Fighter II introduce.

    This is not the way.

    I get where you're coming from, and have raised those player concerns as well. So, when I said I was using the meme to help make the argument for the button, I wasn't suggesting that was all I was doing to relay player sentiment surrounding this Raid.

    We know you’ve relayed sentiment. We aren’t blaming you. We at least I know many of us aren’t. I really wish they’d listen to you since you are speaking on our behalf because frankly it’s such an easy fix to keep the raid competitive, yet not guild busting and a massive coordination effort/time sink
  • TVF
    36527 posts Member
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    I shared that meme with the team in order to boost the argument that we need a confirm run button.

    We need more than that. Maybe TopCash can be bothered to actually listen to you and the community for once

    Well calling someone an insulting name (or at least, calling them a name that is intended to be insulting) isn't really doing you any favors.

    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF
    36527 posts Member
    Ultra wrote: »
    IronCross wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    Deany123 wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    Doja, the mechanics of this raid are breaking up guilds and bumming out the majority of players. Does the team require a "this sucks" button to grasp that? This kinda communication from CG is worse than no communication.

    It breaks guilds apart for the better

    The slackers need to pick up, or lose the top end players to newer guilds

    Competitive players are together, and the casual ones are together, as it should be

    I dont see how moving away from friends to a guild in my time zone is for the better. Granted it was my choice to move but with a guild so spread out we just couldn't get through p4. Just not enough members with free time at the same time.
    Am now in a guild that is beating the rancor but it feels hollow compared to how it would have done with 2 year plus friends

    You can still stay in the server and keep in touch with your friends, and make new ones from the new guild

    I hope you lose a bunch of people from your guild if that is your view. This raid is total trash for multi time zone guilds and a joke to have everyone on at the same time. The continued line from CG of “we are looking at it” is total bunk. Everyone knows this raid experience is awful for players. I’m pretty sure they pushed this trash out on purpose to sell packs. Create a problem and sell a solution...that should be the company motto.
    lol

    i get that you are frustrated with the raid, but there is no need to be so toxic it

    Territory Wars is also bad for multi-time zone guilds but players are able to make it work, just like they'll adapt with the raid until (IF) CG changes something about it

    TW isn't really the best comparison since you don't have to all be on at once.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • I shared that meme with the team in order to boost the argument that we need a confirm run button.

    Amen!
  • TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    I shared that meme with the team in order to boost the argument that we need a confirm run button.

    We need more than that. Maybe TopCash can be bothered to actually listen to you and the community for once

    Well calling someone an insulting name (or at least, calling them a name that is intended to be insulting) isn't really doing you any favors.

    The way he’s run the game since Carrie left is in and of itself insulting. Calling him by the only thing he truly cares about, even such when Carrie was still around, is not even close.

    But I’m glad to know he would make it a personal vendetta against a play on his forum name, or at least that’s what you’re suggesting
  • I was as frustrated as anyone else when it seemed like the coordination issue was getting ignored, but we got confirmation that they're looking at the issue, and that's all I could really ask for from Doja. I so dearly wish that the CG machine would move much faster (not just regarding this issue, but in general when it comes to all facets of the game), but harping on Doja for making a few lighthearted comments when he's done all he can and isn't the one making decisions isn't a great look.
  • TVF wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    IronCross wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    Deany123 wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    Doja, the mechanics of this raid are breaking up guilds and bumming out the majority of players. Does the team require a "this sucks" button to grasp that? This kinda communication from CG is worse than no communication.

    It breaks guilds apart for the better

    The slackers need to pick up, or lose the top end players to newer guilds

    Competitive players are together, and the casual ones are together, as it should be

    I dont see how moving away from friends to a guild in my time zone is for the better. Granted it was my choice to move but with a guild so spread out we just couldn't get through p4. Just not enough members with free time at the same time.
    Am now in a guild that is beating the rancor but it feels hollow compared to how it would have done with 2 year plus friends

    You can still stay in the server and keep in touch with your friends, and make new ones from the new guild

    I hope you lose a bunch of people from your guild if that is your view. This raid is total trash for multi time zone guilds and a joke to have everyone on at the same time. The continued line from CG of “we are looking at it” is total bunk. Everyone knows this raid experience is awful for players. I’m pretty sure they pushed this trash out on purpose to sell packs. Create a problem and sell a solution...that should be the company motto.
    lol

    i get that you are frustrated with the raid, but there is no need to be so toxic it

    Territory Wars is also bad for multi-time zone guilds but players are able to make it work, just like they'll adapt with the raid until (IF) CG changes something about it

    TW isn't really the best comparison since you don't have to all be on at once.

    Holy lord I actually agree with TVF!

    But true, comparing TW to this raid is a very bad comparison, since you don’t need 25 people on at once holding damage to clear a zone in TW and wait for anywhere from 30 minutes to multiple hours to submit damage to clear that zone. Nor is there a massive increase of speed and damage if people defeat teams early where the last 5 of 25 teams in the zone remain (20%)
  • Ultra
    11454 posts Moderator
    TVF wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    IronCross wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    Deany123 wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    Doja, the mechanics of this raid are breaking up guilds and bumming out the majority of players. Does the team require a "this sucks" button to grasp that? This kinda communication from CG is worse than no communication.

    It breaks guilds apart for the better

    The slackers need to pick up, or lose the top end players to newer guilds

    Competitive players are together, and the casual ones are together, as it should be

    I dont see how moving away from friends to a guild in my time zone is for the better. Granted it was my choice to move but with a guild so spread out we just couldn't get through p4. Just not enough members with free time at the same time.
    Am now in a guild that is beating the rancor but it feels hollow compared to how it would have done with 2 year plus friends

    You can still stay in the server and keep in touch with your friends, and make new ones from the new guild

    I hope you lose a bunch of people from your guild if that is your view. This raid is total trash for multi time zone guilds and a joke to have everyone on at the same time. The continued line from CG of “we are looking at it” is total bunk. Everyone knows this raid experience is awful for players. I’m pretty sure they pushed this trash out on purpose to sell packs. Create a problem and sell a solution...that should be the company motto.
    lol

    i get that you are frustrated with the raid, but there is no need to be so toxic it

    Territory Wars is also bad for multi-time zone guilds but players are able to make it work, just like they'll adapt with the raid until (IF) CG changes something about it

    TW isn't really the best comparison since you don't have to all be on at once.
    That's true
  • I was as frustrated as anyone else when it seemed like the coordination issue was getting ignored, but we got confirmation that they're looking at the issue, and that's all I could really ask for from Doja. I so dearly wish that the CG machine would move much faster (not just regarding this issue, but in general when it comes to all facets of the game), but harping on Doja for making a few lighthearted comments when he's done all he can and isn't the one making decisions isn't a great look.

    Like I’ve said, and hopefully man agree, this isn’t on Doja. Once he responded after that corporate response on difficulty, it left his point of responsibility and now lies in the court of Crunb, Cyanides, TopHat (is that better TV) and the imaginary Mark ****. It’s their responsibility now to do right by the player base and fix their poorly designed raid, not Doja’s.
  • I get that it's just a game and this is only a part of it, but if I was a dev responsible for designing the raid and someone sent me that meme, I'd better have a good relationship with that person, because it looks like they're making fun of my work and how it's being received.
  • Jakdnels wrote: »
    I get that it's just a game and this is only a part of it, but if I was a dev responsible for designing the raid and someone sent me that meme, I'd better have a good relationship with that person, because it looks like they're making fun of my work and how it's being received.

    Good. It should be made fun of because the mechanics are trash
  • Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Jakdnels wrote: »
    I get that it's just a game and this is only a part of it, but if I was a dev responsible for designing the raid and someone sent me that meme, I'd better have a good relationship with that person, because it looks like they're making fun of my work and how it's being received.

    Good. It should be made fun of because the mechanics are trash

    I agree the mechanics should be changed and your solution of limiting the stacking to individuals makes the most sense to me.

    If someone is going to deliver constructive criticism I don't think sending memes is effective. It can have a "lol - look what the internet is saying about you" vibe and may put the developer on the defensive instead. But who knows. Maybe they're all best friends or the devs already think it's funny that it's a frustrating mechanic to deal with.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Jakdnels wrote: »
    I get that it's just a game and this is only a part of it, but if I was a dev responsible for designing the raid and someone sent me that meme, I'd better have a good relationship with that person, because it looks like they're making fun of my work and how it's being received.

    The good thing is they have a better sense of humor than you.
  • LordDirt
    4941 posts Member
    edited January 2021
    , but we got confirmation that they're looking at the issue, and that's all I could really ask for from Doja.

    Go look at the "SEE definitely needs a buff!" thread and see how happy you are with that response. Three months and counting and nothing.

    Why wasn't Cobb Vanth shards a reward for the Krayt Dragon raid? Why wasn't Endor Gear Luke shards a reward for the Speeder Bike raid?
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Jakdnels wrote: »
    I get that it's just a game and this is only a part of it, but if I was a dev responsible for designing the raid and someone sent me that meme, I'd better have a good relationship with that person, because it looks like they're making fun of my work and how it's being received.

    The good thing is they have a better sense of humor than you.

    Could be. If they think it's funny, then it seems like they're making fun of the players that don't like the mechanic.
  • I have a good relationship with the devs. Some of them even let me see them in their true lizard-person form!
  • LordDirt wrote: »
    , but we got confirmation that they're looking at the issue, and that's all I could really ask for from Doja.

    Go look at the "SEE definitely needs a buff!" thread and see how happy you are with that response. Three months and counting and nothing.

    It’s still not Doja’s fault though. He has no say in the development of the game. They hired him to communicate with us and be our voice to the devs, since they’re apparently soooooo busy they can’t respond themselves. I appreciate Doja does that for us. Now it’s on the devs like Crumb, TopCashHat, Mark “do I even exist” ****, etc.
    Doja can only relay our sentiment and feelings so much. As for SEE it’s either blatant ignorance or intentional ignoring. Both JML (much lesser extent) and SEE need tweaks and fixes to their kits.
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