Upcoming Changes To The Pit Challenge Tier [MEGA]

Replies

  • MaruMaru
    2256 posts Member
    BPRDHB wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »

    The lack of co-ordination is a good thing, but the lack of competition in the guild isn't

    This update has two parts, removal of co-ordination (great!) and unable to score more than 2% damage on most runs (bad)

    Competition will be there, the way competition happens will be different and it won't depend on whether you have x gl, but have many well built r5 teams, instead of the 2 you know that will score best and make anything else not matter.

    Most guilds have players run 1 squad per phase, so 4 squads. This is probably going to require doubling that (maybe more?), so double the work while people wait for the next phase to open up as that won't change where squads need to be used.[/quote]

    Yes, thus it encourages well built rosters. Those previously can do it may not and vice versa.
  • Kyno
    30022 posts Moderator
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Seeing Doja's post, what's the logic that thought a single %20 bump every %2 not enough? We shouldn't get phase solos, but we -should- get a bit of high scores given we have multiple teams that can make it.

    *scratch that. Now I get this happens within the run and resets in between runs.

    Kyno confirmed the intention is that the more r5s you have, the higher your raid placement should be

    Its no longer a "build the best raid team to score higher"

    Did I?

    I mean you don’t have to really.

    The stacking mechanic as it’s built now per run is demanding so many more R5 teams per member. What wouldn’t kick in until 20% is now kicking in even greater at 6%.
    2% sees a 20% jump. I mean ok. Cool.
    4% sees 60% jump.
    6% sees 120% jump.

    If that’s their intent I mean ok, but cmon you could make the cut off at 10% and still get the desired outcome, just not so drastically

    Can you expand on that?

    We were finishing the raid with 25-30 putting in damage.

    If 34 guildmates have 4 (+ some P4 junk, which will now do better than before), teams, you can math this out pretty easily. Those could be the same 4+ teams you needed before, so you just need to make sure you have more players involved, not more teams. So no real demand, other than teams that can average 3%. ( I would imagine certain teams are going to do well more than the average, and any team doing more than 2% before certainly will not be doing less)

    Other % would have made this easier, but a fair amount. Even 5% would mean you would be looking at 20 or less players right off the bat.

    Either way, I can't wait to see how this plays out in practice.
  • MaruMaru
    2256 posts Member
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    How about this bit where they got rid of "tripled for gls" clause. What's your guess about gl power in this new paradigm:

    At the start of each of its turns, this unit gains 50 Armor Penetration and 10% Critical Chance, Critical Damage, and Potency (stacking) and all enemies both active and defeated lose 5% Offense, Tenacity, and Mastery (stacking, max 10 stacks) until end of encounter.

    So GLs should do better then, right?

    I'm not sure, that was why I'm asking. It looks like gls won't cause hitting the max as fast but they will hit it either way after taking 10 turns, meanwhile the %2 ramp up will still bust all.
  • Nauros
    4278 posts Member
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    How about this bit where they got rid of "tripled for gls" clause. What's your guess about gl power in this new paradigm:

    At the start of each of its turns, this unit gains 50 Armor Penetration and 10% Critical Chance, Critical Damage, and Potency (stacking) and all enemies both active and defeated lose 5% Offense, Tenacity, and Mastery (stacking, max 10 stacks) until end of encounter.

    So GLs should do better then, right?

    Yes, somewhat. Until the insane stat boost just kills everyone, which will be, like, 6%. So in the end, we will be glad to score the same as before...
    Revive the stores, the game needs it.
  • This change is minimal, you took the problem out of place, a global synchrony, for an even greater exponential stacking at the limit than the previous one.

    The biggest beneficiaries are the international guilds, the other players that CG says they want to benefit from have felt the effects so slowly that it won't make much difference.

    Do not expect a gratitude from the whole community when only a part of it saw the complaint being answered. Entrance requirement R5 is still abusive.
  • Why not just eliminate the mastery reduction if it's going to be near impossible to do more than 10% damage in a phase after accounting for insane modding and rng?
  • Lol, good luck having enough things to throw in there by the time P4 rolls around.
  • SCCH
    52 posts Member
    I just want to say THANK YOU. The original mechanic was literally the worst and most unfun thing that happened to the game. Thanks for listening to the player base and fixing the mistake!
  • This change will most likely decrease the number of guilds completing the raid. My guild 275mil spent 3 months developing and investing resources into teams that can get 20% now they will be at best 6-8%. We are finally able to beat the raid, with the changes I am doubtful we will be able to complete it. The time and effort we spent to get to this point is now probably wasted. I am a bit mad with the changes as a guild leader, But I will have to wait until the changes are implemented to see how bad they are.
  • Ravens1113
    3427 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Seeing Doja's post, what's the logic that thought a single %20 bump every %2 not enough? We shouldn't get phase solos, but we -should- get a bit of high scores given we have multiple teams that can make it.

    *scratch that. Now I get this happens within the run and resets in between runs.

    Kyno confirmed the intention is that the more r5s you have, the higher your raid placement should be

    Its no longer a "build the best raid team to score higher"

    Did I?

    I mean you don’t have to really.

    The stacking mechanic as it’s built now per run is demanding so many more R5 teams per member. What wouldn’t kick in until 20% is now kicking in even greater at 6%.
    2% sees a 20% jump. I mean ok. Cool.
    4% sees 60% jump.
    6% sees 120% jump.

    If that’s their intent I mean ok, but cmon you could make the cut off at 10% and still get the desired outcome, just not so drastically

    Can you expand on that?

    We were finishing the raid with 25-30 putting in damage.

    If 34 guildmates have 4 (+ some P4 junk, which will now do better than before), teams, you can math this out pretty easily. Those could be the same 4+ teams you needed before, so you just need to make sure you have more players involved, not more teams. So no real demand, other than teams that can average 3%. ( I would imagine certain teams are going to do well more than the average, and any team doing more than 2% before certainly will not be doing less)

    Other % would have made this easier, but a fair amount. Even 5% would mean you would be looking at 20 or less players right off the bat.

    Either way, I can't wait to see how this plays out in practice.

    Right now you have stacking mechanics kicking in at 2% of damage done. Previously not until 20%.
    So let’s say a team could get you 4% in a single run. That was without any damage or speed boost. Depending on that team, that 20% increase in stats will now hinder any progress and make that old 4% not achievable with the same team.
    I don’t have time to do the exact math, but this mechanic is now shifting the issue from universal coordination (thank you for fixing that, it’s a dumb mechanic, please never do it again), and is now “how many R5 teams do you own”

    Without any help in the gear economy seemingly coming, I think this is a poor move. They could make the thresholds 5% and I could even be ok with that. 10% would be prefered but I get it at 5
  • Nauros
    4278 posts Member
    SCCH wrote: »
    I just want to say THANK YOU. The original mechanic was literally the worst and most unfun thing that happened to the game. Thanks for listening to the player base and fixing the mistake!

    Lol, "fixing". Just replacing one game-ruiner with another, unless you are in a whale guild.
    Revive the stores, the game needs it.
  • Kyno
    30022 posts Moderator
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Seeing Doja's post, what's the logic that thought a single %20 bump every %2 not enough? We shouldn't get phase solos, but we -should- get a bit of high scores given we have multiple teams that can make it.

    *scratch that. Now I get this happens within the run and resets in between runs.

    Kyno confirmed the intention is that the more r5s you have, the higher your raid placement should be

    Its no longer a "build the best raid team to score higher"

    Did I?

    I mean you don’t have to really.

    The stacking mechanic as it’s built now per run is demanding so many more R5 teams per member. What wouldn’t kick in until 20% is now kicking in even greater at 6%.
    2% sees a 20% jump. I mean ok. Cool.
    4% sees 60% jump.
    6% sees 120% jump.

    If that’s their intent I mean ok, but cmon you could make the cut off at 10% and still get the desired outcome, just not so drastically

    Can you expand on that?

    We were finishing the raid with 25-30 putting in damage.

    If 34 guildmates have 4 (+ some P4 junk, which will now do better than before), teams, you can math this out pretty easily. Those could be the same 4+ teams you needed before, so you just need to make sure you have more players involved, not more teams. So no real demand, other than teams that can average 3%. ( I would imagine certain teams are going to do well more than the average, and any team doing more than 2% before certainly will not be doing less)

    Other % would have made this easier, but a fair amount. Even 5% would mean you would be looking at 20 or less players right off the bat.

    Either way, I can't wait to see how this plays out in practice.

    Right now you have stacking mechanics kicking in at 2% of damage done. Previously not until 20%.
    So let’s say a team could get you 4% in a single run. That was without any damage or speed boost. Depending on that team, that 20% increase in stats will now hinder any progress and make that old 4% not achievable with the same team.
    I don’t have time to do the exact math, but this mechanic is now shifting the issue from universal coordination (thank you for fixing that, it’s a dumb mechanic, please never do it again), and is now “how many R5 teams do you own”

    Without any help in the gear economy seemingly coming, I think this is a poor move. They could make the thresholds 5% and I could even be ok with that. 10% would be prefered but I get it at 5

    As was expressed before all this, they were not going to remove something that added a layer of difficulty without making it difficult in other ways.

    Yes teams will be hard pressed to break an average of 3%, but that's still doable and I'm sure certain teams will do better than expected with this change. It's still not a demand on more teams, just a push for a slightly higher participation. Which kind of had to be expected.

    You are really bent on making everything about the economy, but it's really not as bad as you make it seem, you can see many players progressing on GLs (some on their second) for free, there seems to be something working, as those have a high relic requirement.

    I get that you want it to be easier than it's going to be, but maybe let it roll out before you spin this onto the economy. Sorry, I'm not trying to get hang up on you, it's just not as bad as you make it out to be, they make a good change, one which you have been asking for, and "it's all wrong"..... I get it, "they csnt win", but they are trying here and you wont even let them do that.
  • Nauros
    4278 posts Member
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    This was the data they were waiting for...guilds completing the raid. In their review it was too many. I think they didn’t realize the whole airplane mode gimmick. Now under the guise of helping they will reduce the amount of guild completing. Which is funny since the aero packs are back. Unbelievable timing or coincidence?

    They could at least admit it outright instead of claiming that they want to keep it te same. It's obvious, not sure who are they trying to fool. But I guess basic honesty is too much to ask...
    Revive the stores, the game needs it.
  • Nauros
    4278 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Seeing Doja's post, what's the logic that thought a single %20 bump every %2 not enough? We shouldn't get phase solos, but we -should- get a bit of high scores given we have multiple teams that can make it.

    *scratch that. Now I get this happens within the run and resets in between runs.

    Kyno confirmed the intention is that the more r5s you have, the higher your raid placement should be

    Its no longer a "build the best raid team to score higher"

    Did I?

    I mean you don’t have to really.

    The stacking mechanic as it’s built now per run is demanding so many more R5 teams per member. What wouldn’t kick in until 20% is now kicking in even greater at 6%.
    2% sees a 20% jump. I mean ok. Cool.
    4% sees 60% jump.
    6% sees 120% jump.

    If that’s their intent I mean ok, but cmon you could make the cut off at 10% and still get the desired outcome, just not so drastically

    Can you expand on that?

    We were finishing the raid with 25-30 putting in damage.

    If 34 guildmates have 4 (+ some P4 junk, which will now do better than before), teams, you can math this out pretty easily. Those could be the same 4+ teams you needed before, so you just need to make sure you have more players involved, not more teams. So no real demand, other than teams that can average 3%. ( I would imagine certain teams are going to do well more than the average, and any team doing more than 2% before certainly will not be doing less)

    Other % would have made this easier, but a fair amount. Even 5% would mean you would be looking at 20 or less players right off the bat.

    Either way, I can't wait to see how this plays out in practice.

    Right now you have stacking mechanics kicking in at 2% of damage done. Previously not until 20%.
    So let’s say a team could get you 4% in a single run. That was without any damage or speed boost. Depending on that team, that 20% increase in stats will now hinder any progress and make that old 4% not achievable with the same team.
    I don’t have time to do the exact math, but this mechanic is now shifting the issue from universal coordination (thank you for fixing that, it’s a dumb mechanic, please never do it again), and is now “how many R5 teams do you own”

    Without any help in the gear economy seemingly coming, I think this is a poor move. They could make the thresholds 5% and I could even be ok with that. 10% would be prefered but I get it at 5

    As was expressed before all this, they were not going to remove something that added a layer of difficulty without making it difficult in other ways.

    Yes teams will be hard pressed to break an average of 3%, but that's still doable and I'm sure certain teams will do better than expected with this change. It's still not a demand on more teams, just a push for a slightly higher participation. Which kind of had to be expected.

    So guilds that already needed (almost) full participation are just screwed, got it. Good to know that our successful push to complete the raid was all for nothing, since we probably won't get enough mats to take a single character to r8 before this abomination goes live.
    Revive the stores, the game needs it.
  • Kyno
    30022 posts Moderator
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Seeing Doja's post, what's the logic that thought a single %20 bump every %2 not enough? We shouldn't get phase solos, but we -should- get a bit of high scores given we have multiple teams that can make it.

    *scratch that. Now I get this happens within the run and resets in between runs.

    Kyno confirmed the intention is that the more r5s you have, the higher your raid placement should be

    Its no longer a "build the best raid team to score higher"

    Did I?

    I mean you don’t have to really.

    The stacking mechanic as it’s built now per run is demanding so many more R5 teams per member. What wouldn’t kick in until 20% is now kicking in even greater at 6%.
    2% sees a 20% jump. I mean ok. Cool.
    4% sees 60% jump.
    6% sees 120% jump.

    If that’s their intent I mean ok, but cmon you could make the cut off at 10% and still get the desired outcome, just not so drastically

    Can you expand on that?

    We were finishing the raid with 25-30 putting in damage.

    If 34 guildmates have 4 (+ some P4 junk, which will now do better than before), teams, you can math this out pretty easily. Those could be the same 4+ teams you needed before, so you just need to make sure you have more players involved, not more teams. So no real demand, other than teams that can average 3%. ( I would imagine certain teams are going to do well more than the average, and any team doing more than 2% before certainly will not be doing less)

    Other % would have made this easier, but a fair amount. Even 5% would mean you would be looking at 20 or less players right off the bat.

    Either way, I can't wait to see how this plays out in practice.

    Right now you have stacking mechanics kicking in at 2% of damage done. Previously not until 20%.
    So let’s say a team could get you 4% in a single run. That was without any damage or speed boost. Depending on that team, that 20% increase in stats will now hinder any progress and make that old 4% not achievable with the same team.
    I don’t have time to do the exact math, but this mechanic is now shifting the issue from universal coordination (thank you for fixing that, it’s a dumb mechanic, please never do it again), and is now “how many R5 teams do you own”

    Without any help in the gear economy seemingly coming, I think this is a poor move. They could make the thresholds 5% and I could even be ok with that. 10% would be prefered but I get it at 5

    As was expressed before all this, they were not going to remove something that added a layer of difficulty without making it difficult in other ways.

    Yes teams will be hard pressed to break an average of 3%, but that's still doable and I'm sure certain teams will do better than expected with this change. It's still not a demand on more teams, just a push for a slightly higher participation. Which kind of had to be expected.

    So guilds that already needed (almost) full participation are just screwed, got it. Good to know that our successful push to complete the raid was all for nothing, since we probably won't get enough mats to take a single character to r8 before this abomination goes live.

    Everyone in the guild was doing exactly 2%?

    Or are you just being overly negative for no reason?
  • Kyno
    30022 posts Moderator
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    This was the data they were waiting for...guilds completing the raid. In their review it was too many. I think they didn’t realize the whole airplane mode gimmick. Now under the guise of helping they will reduce the amount of guild completing. Which is funny since the aero packs are back. Unbelievable timing or coincidence?

    What % will the overall number of guilds completing the raid decrease?

    Please show all work.

    Do we also add in the guilds that couldnt do it before due to coordination issues?
  • Nauros
    4278 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Seeing Doja's post, what's the logic that thought a single %20 bump every %2 not enough? We shouldn't get phase solos, but we -should- get a bit of high scores given we have multiple teams that can make it.

    *scratch that. Now I get this happens within the run and resets in between runs.

    Kyno confirmed the intention is that the more r5s you have, the higher your raid placement should be

    Its no longer a "build the best raid team to score higher"

    Did I?

    I mean you don’t have to really.

    The stacking mechanic as it’s built now per run is demanding so many more R5 teams per member. What wouldn’t kick in until 20% is now kicking in even greater at 6%.
    2% sees a 20% jump. I mean ok. Cool.
    4% sees 60% jump.
    6% sees 120% jump.

    If that’s their intent I mean ok, but cmon you could make the cut off at 10% and still get the desired outcome, just not so drastically

    Can you expand on that?

    We were finishing the raid with 25-30 putting in damage.

    If 34 guildmates have 4 (+ some P4 junk, which will now do better than before), teams, you can math this out pretty easily. Those could be the same 4+ teams you needed before, so you just need to make sure you have more players involved, not more teams. So no real demand, other than teams that can average 3%. ( I would imagine certain teams are going to do well more than the average, and any team doing more than 2% before certainly will not be doing less)

    Other % would have made this easier, but a fair amount. Even 5% would mean you would be looking at 20 or less players right off the bat.

    Either way, I can't wait to see how this plays out in practice.

    Right now you have stacking mechanics kicking in at 2% of damage done. Previously not until 20%.
    So let’s say a team could get you 4% in a single run. That was without any damage or speed boost. Depending on that team, that 20% increase in stats will now hinder any progress and make that old 4% not achievable with the same team.
    I don’t have time to do the exact math, but this mechanic is now shifting the issue from universal coordination (thank you for fixing that, it’s a dumb mechanic, please never do it again), and is now “how many R5 teams do you own”

    Without any help in the gear economy seemingly coming, I think this is a poor move. They could make the thresholds 5% and I could even be ok with that. 10% would be prefered but I get it at 5

    As was expressed before all this, they were not going to remove something that added a layer of difficulty without making it difficult in other ways.

    Yes teams will be hard pressed to break an average of 3%, but that's still doable and I'm sure certain teams will do better than expected with this change. It's still not a demand on more teams, just a push for a slightly higher participation. Which kind of had to be expected.

    So guilds that already needed (almost) full participation are just screwed, got it. Good to know that our successful push to complete the raid was all for nothing, since we probably won't get enough mats to take a single character to r8 before this abomination goes live.

    Everyone in the guild was doing exactly 2%?

    Or are you just being overly negative for no reason?

    What has a percentage to do with anything? Everyone was doing what they could (well, except for a few leftover CLS teams at the end). Some were doing 4, 6, 8 or over 10%, do you think those teams will be this effective now? No they won't. I'm not negative, I'm realistic. This update will make coordination easier but the fight itself harder. When we managed coordination but struggled with the fight, we are screwed. Simple as that.
    Revive the stores, the game needs it.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    This was the data they were waiting for...guilds completing the raid. In their review it was too many. I think they didn’t realize the whole airplane mode gimmick. Now under the guise of helping they will reduce the amount of guild completing. Which is funny since the aero packs are back. Unbelievable timing or coincidence?

    What % will the overall number of guilds completing the raid decrease?

    Please show all work.

    Do we also add in the guilds that couldnt do it before due to coordination issues?

    My guild was one of the coordination issues. Between ppl spending evenings with their kids/family (nothing wrong with that, this is the raid mechanic's fault) and time zone issues we could not reliably get into p2 bc we have fewer SLKs more Reys and JMLs in our guild. Not to mention ppl dropping damage in p2 accidentally so that no one else can attempt it at the start. So for us, this is a relief. Is it harder? Probably. Is it more doable after this change than it is now? For us, yes it will be. And I'm glad for that.
  • Jpfit262
    413 posts Member
    So our guild hasn’t completed this yet and only got 3/4 way through tier 2.... for those that understand these changes, does that make it more likely we can actually finish it now? We either had people finish their runs too early, or we wasted squads because we went over for damage and lost squads.
  • Nauros
    4278 posts Member
    Checked with devs. Here's the breakdown:

    2% Health lost this battle = 20% total stat increase
    4% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% = 60% total stat increase
    6% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% = 120% total stat increase
    8% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% + 80% = 200% total stat increase
    10% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% + 80% + 100% = 300% total stat increase

    Now that is ridiculous. I rather coordinate within my guild and beat the whole thing. Don't do the change then.

    Or give us a choice which version we want.
    Revive the stores, the game needs it.
  • Ravens1113
    3427 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Seeing Doja's post, what's the logic that thought a single %20 bump every %2 not enough? We shouldn't get phase solos, but we -should- get a bit of high scores given we have multiple teams that can make it.

    *scratch that. Now I get this happens within the run and resets in between runs.

    Kyno confirmed the intention is that the more r5s you have, the higher your raid placement should be

    Its no longer a "build the best raid team to score higher"

    Did I?

    I mean you don’t have to really.

    The stacking mechanic as it’s built now per run is demanding so many more R5 teams per member. What wouldn’t kick in until 20% is now kicking in even greater at 6%.
    2% sees a 20% jump. I mean ok. Cool.
    4% sees 60% jump.
    6% sees 120% jump.

    If that’s their intent I mean ok, but cmon you could make the cut off at 10% and still get the desired outcome, just not so drastically

    Can you expand on that?

    We were finishing the raid with 25-30 putting in damage.

    If 34 guildmates have 4 (+ some P4 junk, which will now do better than before), teams, you can math this out pretty easily. Those could be the same 4+ teams you needed before, so you just need to make sure you have more players involved, not more teams. So no real demand, other than teams that can average 3%. ( I would imagine certain teams are going to do well more than the average, and any team doing more than 2% before certainly will not be doing less)

    Other % would have made this easier, but a fair amount. Even 5% would mean you would be looking at 20 or less players right off the bat.

    Either way, I can't wait to see how this plays out in practice.

    Right now you have stacking mechanics kicking in at 2% of damage done. Previously not until 20%.
    So let’s say a team could get you 4% in a single run. That was without any damage or speed boost. Depending on that team, that 20% increase in stats will now hinder any progress and make that old 4% not achievable with the same team.
    I don’t have time to do the exact math, but this mechanic is now shifting the issue from universal coordination (thank you for fixing that, it’s a dumb mechanic, please never do it again), and is now “how many R5 teams do you own”

    Without any help in the gear economy seemingly coming, I think this is a poor move. They could make the thresholds 5% and I could even be ok with that. 10% would be prefered but I get it at 5

    As was expressed before all this, they were not going to remove something that added a layer of difficulty without making it difficult in other ways.

    Yes teams will be hard pressed to break an average of 3%, but that's still doable and I'm sure certain teams will do better than expected with this change. It's still not a demand on more teams, just a push for a slightly higher participation. Which kind of had to be expected.

    You are really bent on making everything about the economy, but it's really not as bad as you make it seem, you can see many players progressing on GLs (some on their second) for free, there seems to be something working, as those have a high relic requirement.

    I get that you want it to be easier than it's going to be, but maybe let it roll out before you spin this onto the economy. Sorry, I'm not trying to get hang up on you, it's just not as bad as you make it out to be, they make a good change, one which you have been asking for, and "it's all wrong"..... I get it, "they csnt win", but they are trying here and you wont even let them do that.

    Sigh...

    I’m giving them credit for changing it to a per run basis of the stacking mechanic. I even said I’d understand them in past posts cutting he stacking mechanic to 75% at 10% damage done per run. Even with their current stacking a 5% threshold would have produces the same intention as I acknowledged needed to happen if they make it per run.

    However even you need to admit, the current way it stacks, is too much at 2% thresholds. It’s making it much harder on individual runs at 2%. A 5% threshold would have the same effect on overall difficulty and even make it slightly harder but not as much as it is now.

    Yes, this is about gear economy because now individual members need more R5 teams. You’re talking about the GL progressions of F2P but how long does that take to get one completely f2p? 6-9 months? GL’s need on average about 9 toons at least r5 to unlock. So you mean to tell me now people need to put that much resource and effort for a couple (at minimum) extra teams on a raid that doesn’t even come close to rewarding the resource effort put in? They just made it about the gear economy by now making the mechanic even more about how many R5 teams you have.

    You seem to be one of the only ones ok with the current gear economy, aside from a couple others of course. But that’s not the point of this post.

    The point is CG just traded a coordination effort to a R5 roster depth issue.
  • Ravens1113
    3427 posts Member
    Jpfit262 wrote: »
    So our guild hasn’t completed this yet and only got 3/4 way through tier 2.... for those that understand these changes, does that make it more likely we can actually finish it now? We either had people finish their runs too early, or we wasted squads because we went over for damage and lost squads.

    If you have at least 25-30 members with a few full R5 squads, you should be ok if coordination was your biggest issue. However the change they made, while alleviating the dumbest mechanic of universal damage penalties, now makes it more about R5 roster depth.
  • I think the changes are great! I was hoping for 5%, but half-expecting 3% - with the full 75% increase each time. I can definitely live with 2% and a slower ramping system.

    I do agree with the sentiment that the uneven distribution of R8 materials is even more of a glaring issue, particularly with a perceived shift from ‘quality’ to ‘quantity’ of teams required to complete, and that something like 3-7 (1st-10th place earning 7, then each 10 places below earning one less) would be both more fair and encourage greater participation
  • Kyno
    30022 posts Moderator
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Seeing Doja's post, what's the logic that thought a single %20 bump every %2 not enough? We shouldn't get phase solos, but we -should- get a bit of high scores given we have multiple teams that can make it.

    *scratch that. Now I get this happens within the run and resets in between runs.

    Kyno confirmed the intention is that the more r5s you have, the higher your raid placement should be

    Its no longer a "build the best raid team to score higher"

    Did I?

    I mean you don’t have to really.

    The stacking mechanic as it’s built now per run is demanding so many more R5 teams per member. What wouldn’t kick in until 20% is now kicking in even greater at 6%.
    2% sees a 20% jump. I mean ok. Cool.
    4% sees 60% jump.
    6% sees 120% jump.

    If that’s their intent I mean ok, but cmon you could make the cut off at 10% and still get the desired outcome, just not so drastically

    Can you expand on that?

    We were finishing the raid with 25-30 putting in damage.

    If 34 guildmates have 4 (+ some P4 junk, which will now do better than before), teams, you can math this out pretty easily. Those could be the same 4+ teams you needed before, so you just need to make sure you have more players involved, not more teams. So no real demand, other than teams that can average 3%. ( I would imagine certain teams are going to do well more than the average, and any team doing more than 2% before certainly will not be doing less)

    Other % would have made this easier, but a fair amount. Even 5% would mean you would be looking at 20 or less players right off the bat.

    Either way, I can't wait to see how this plays out in practice.

    Right now you have stacking mechanics kicking in at 2% of damage done. Previously not until 20%.
    So let’s say a team could get you 4% in a single run. That was without any damage or speed boost. Depending on that team, that 20% increase in stats will now hinder any progress and make that old 4% not achievable with the same team.
    I don’t have time to do the exact math, but this mechanic is now shifting the issue from universal coordination (thank you for fixing that, it’s a dumb mechanic, please never do it again), and is now “how many R5 teams do you own”

    Without any help in the gear economy seemingly coming, I think this is a poor move. They could make the thresholds 5% and I could even be ok with that. 10% would be prefered but I get it at 5

    As was expressed before all this, they were not going to remove something that added a layer of difficulty without making it difficult in other ways.

    Yes teams will be hard pressed to break an average of 3%, but that's still doable and I'm sure certain teams will do better than expected with this change. It's still not a demand on more teams, just a push for a slightly higher participation. Which kind of had to be expected.

    So guilds that already needed (almost) full participation are just screwed, got it. Good to know that our successful push to complete the raid was all for nothing, since we probably won't get enough mats to take a single character to r8 before this abomination goes live.

    Everyone in the guild was doing exactly 2%?

    Or are you just being overly negative for no reason?

    What has a percentage to do with anything? Everyone was doing what they could (well, except for a few leftover CLS teams at the end). Some were doing 4, 6, 8 or over 10%, do you think those teams will be this effective now? No they won't. I'm not negative, I'm realistic. This update will make coordination easier but the fight itself harder. When we managed coordination but struggled with the fight, we are screwed. Simple as that.

    The % matters because math.

    Yes teams that did well before will still do well now. I believe one of the ideas they wre trying to preserve was "effective order" so the best teams are still the best and things just scaled back.

    So yes guilds right on the edge may be effected and pushed just out of the ability to do this, but should be able to develop right back into it.

  • Kyno
    30022 posts Moderator
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    This was the data they were waiting for...guilds completing the raid. In their review it was too many. I think they didn’t realize the whole airplane mode gimmick. Now under the guise of helping they will reduce the amount of guild completing. Which is funny since the aero packs are back. Unbelievable timing or coincidence?

    What % will the overall number of guilds completing the raid decrease?

    Please show all work.

    Do we also add in the guilds that couldnt do it before due to coordination issues?

    Sure. How about you and your cronies provide that information...tell us NOW how many guild complete it and then tell us how many complete it after this change. Your stale argument on showing your work is funny since CG never does. If it is lower than they should commit to change it again... it is higher let it be. Easy enough.

    Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you were trying to state facts.

    You wouldnt believe then even if they did.
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