Upcoming Changes To The Pit Challenge Tier [MEGA]

Replies

  • Shadowz
    167 posts Member
    Konju wrote: »
    Shadowz wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    Checked with devs. Here's the breakdown:

    2% Health lost this battle = 20% total stat increase
    4% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% = 60% total stat increase
    6% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% = 120% total stat increase
    8% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% + 80% = 200% total stat increase
    10% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% + 80% + 100% = 300% total stat increase

    It’s working like this 👆

    Yeah i get that he said he confirmed with the devs... But the post also says that it works similarly to how enfys nest works. and gives an example of 20% then 40% then 60%... Which is clearly NOT what the above says of 20% then 60% then 120% then 200% etc

    gartrzv4oreq.png

    I was replying to a different quote that is now deleted. I hear you.

    Oh, sorry.
  • Konju
    1001 posts Member
    Shadowz wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    Shadowz wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    Checked with devs. Here's the breakdown:

    2% Health lost this battle = 20% total stat increase
    4% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% = 60% total stat increase
    6% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% = 120% total stat increase
    8% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% + 80% = 200% total stat increase
    10% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% + 80% + 100% = 300% total stat increase

    It’s working like this 👆

    Yeah i get that he said he confirmed with the devs... But the post also says that it works similarly to how enfys nest works. and gives an example of 20% then 40% then 60%... Which is clearly NOT what the above says of 20% then 60% then 120% then 200% etc

    gartrzv4oreq.png

    I was replying to a different quote that is now deleted. I hear you.

    Oh, sorry.

    No worries, the text is clunky, much like the mechanic itself. 20% increase per 2% would have done the trick (really feel like 5% would have been better), but instead it is much worse and confusing as well. Will have to wait to see it in action after implemented.

    Still quite happy to lose the coordination, AP modes etc.
  • Ultra
    7707 posts Moderator
    Shadowz wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    Checked with devs. Here's the breakdown:

    2% Health lost this battle = 20% total stat increase
    4% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% = 60% total stat increase
    6% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% = 120% total stat increase
    8% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% + 80% = 200% total stat increase
    10% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% + 80% + 100% = 300% total stat increase

    It’s working like this 👆

    Yeah i get that he said he confirmed with the devs... But the post also says that it works similarly to how enfys nest works. and gives an example of 20% then 40% then 60%... Which is clearly NOT what the above says of 20% then 60% then 120% then 200% etc

    gartrzv4oreq.png

    Both of Doja's posts aren't contradicting

    On the first threshold, it increases by 20%, on the second threshold it increases by 40% (4% HP) and on the third threshold it increases by 60% (6% hp)

    The green part also indicates its stacking which makes it 20,60,120 etc
  • So to summarize, harder overall "difficulty" but now coordination is no longer a factor. Ill take it
  • TVF
    29564 posts Member
    I don't like this. No I do not.
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  • Nauros
    4275 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Seeing Doja's post, what's the logic that thought a single %20 bump every %2 not enough? We shouldn't get phase solos, but we -should- get a bit of high scores given we have multiple teams that can make it.

    *scratch that. Now I get this happens within the run and resets in between runs.

    Kyno confirmed the intention is that the more r5s you have, the higher your raid placement should be

    Its no longer a "build the best raid team to score higher"

    Did I?

    I mean you don’t have to really.

    The stacking mechanic as it’s built now per run is demanding so many more R5 teams per member. What wouldn’t kick in until 20% is now kicking in even greater at 6%.
    2% sees a 20% jump. I mean ok. Cool.
    4% sees 60% jump.
    6% sees 120% jump.

    If that’s their intent I mean ok, but cmon you could make the cut off at 10% and still get the desired outcome, just not so drastically

    Can you expand on that?

    We were finishing the raid with 25-30 putting in damage.

    If 34 guildmates have 4 (+ some P4 junk, which will now do better than before), teams, you can math this out pretty easily. Those could be the same 4+ teams you needed before, so you just need to make sure you have more players involved, not more teams. So no real demand, other than teams that can average 3%. ( I would imagine certain teams are going to do well more than the average, and any team doing more than 2% before certainly will not be doing less)

    Other % would have made this easier, but a fair amount. Even 5% would mean you would be looking at 20 or less players right off the bat.

    Either way, I can't wait to see how this plays out in practice.

    Right now you have stacking mechanics kicking in at 2% of damage done. Previously not until 20%.
    So let’s say a team could get you 4% in a single run. That was without any damage or speed boost. Depending on that team, that 20% increase in stats will now hinder any progress and make that old 4% not achievable with the same team.
    I don’t have time to do the exact math, but this mechanic is now shifting the issue from universal coordination (thank you for fixing that, it’s a dumb mechanic, please never do it again), and is now “how many R5 teams do you own”

    Without any help in the gear economy seemingly coming, I think this is a poor move. They could make the thresholds 5% and I could even be ok with that. 10% would be prefered but I get it at 5

    As was expressed before all this, they were not going to remove something that added a layer of difficulty without making it difficult in other ways.

    Yes teams will be hard pressed to break an average of 3%, but that's still doable and I'm sure certain teams will do better than expected with this change. It's still not a demand on more teams, just a push for a slightly higher participation. Which kind of had to be expected.

    So guilds that already needed (almost) full participation are just screwed, got it. Good to know that our successful push to complete the raid was all for nothing, since we probably won't get enough mats to take a single character to r8 before this abomination goes live.

    Everyone in the guild was doing exactly 2%?

    Or are you just being overly negative for no reason?

    What has a percentage to do with anything? Everyone was doing what they could (well, except for a few leftover CLS teams at the end). Some were doing 4, 6, 8 or over 10%, do you think those teams will be this effective now? No they won't. I'm not negative, I'm realistic. This update will make coordination easier but the fight itself harder. When we managed coordination but struggled with the fight, we are screwed. Simple as that.

    The % matters because math.

    Yes teams that did well before will still do well now. I believe one of the ideas they wre trying to preserve was "effective order" so the best teams are still the best and things just scaled back.

    So yes guilds right on the edge may be effected and pushed just out of the ability to do this, but should be able to develop right back into it.

    Glad that you agree with me that teams will be less effective, that we are screwed and that we will have to grind more. Which is precisely why I am so "overly negative" about it.

    I'm glad we can agree you are being overly negative.

    I actually dont think that, I think you should plan accordingly and work with your guild you can do it.

    You don't think what? That teams will be less effective? That's a fact, anything that does over 2% will go against higher stats, which means it will be less effective.
    Or that we are screwed out of completing the raid? I dare say that I know our guild's position better than you.
    Or that we need to grind more? And what else should we do?
    Again, not negative, just realistic.
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  • MasterSeedy
    3366 posts Member
    edited March 6
    deleted.

    Someone else basically said the same thing, but it was on the next page so I couldn't see it yet. I've deleted what i said b/c even though it was fine, if you repeat after others have already settled an issue it can sound argumentative & keep something going that was over.
  • @ TVF
    I don't like this. No I do not.

    do you have any particular criticism, or is it just a nebulous "don't like"?
  • ShaggyB
    1994 posts Member
    Checked with devs. Here's the breakdown:

    2% Health lost this battle = 20% total stat increase
    4% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% = 60% total stat increase
    6% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% = 120% total stat increase
    8% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% + 80% = 200% total stat increase
    10% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% + 80% + 100% = 300% total stat increase

    @CG_Doja_Fett

    Thats a big problem.

    That seems designed to tell me im going to do 2% and thats it. If i squeek more out id be considered lucky.

    So are you guys wanting this raid to be 50 people do 2% in each phase????

    Because the reward structure says you dont expect that... but that design says you do.

    Design now seems to be about flattening the damage across a guild... but the flat rewards you guys advertised are anything but flat.

    Why is the above design considered the right fix?
  • MasterSeedy
    3366 posts Member
    edited March 6
    @Shaggy B:

    We already have teams that can go past the 20% damage mark, and that gives a +75% rancor stat bonus. Logic tells you that those same teams will now will now survive the +20% rancor stat bonus & even a bit past the 60% stat bonus, if they didn't die instantly at 20% damage before when the +75% stat bonus kicked in.

    So we have every reason to expect that the super-squads will still get 5%. There's even a good chance they'll get 7%.

    Even the teams that can't stay alive with the +20% stat bonus are still going to get one or more good hits in before the Rancor's next turn (or maybe even survive one more turn by the Rancor). So teams that were getting 3.5%-4% will still get 2.5% to 3%.

    It's not realistic to think this is an instant death sentence at a +20% stat bonus when some squads were surviving +75% stat bonuses.

    Any squad that got over 2% before is going to get 2% plus at least one more good hit. Any squad that got less than 2% before is unaffected. So, no, you're not suddenly doomed to getting only 2% and you're done.
    Moreover, you still don't require 100% participation, because even if a squad was limited to 2%, a single player can send in more than one squad. (And if it's worth it to you, can even swap mods in between - how many credits would you pay for Aeromagnifiers if they were available for credit purchase?)

    I had one 5% squad for p4, same for p3, an SLKR squad for p1 or 2 ... but because we had to do everything all at once, I couldn't add in any additional squads later. I had to hit & hold and then wait...

    Now I can send in 3 x 2.1 to 2.5% squads in p1, send in my SLKR mega squad for 5%+ in p2, 3% ish in p3, and then another 3% in p4 + at least 2 more clean up squads in p4, so I still total 5%.

    As a player, it wasn't worth it to send in a 4th squad in p1 or p2 (whichever one I didn't use SLKR) because it would have done piddling damage compared to the best squads & I would just be told to back out & save the squad after someone else hit big. What a waste of time.

    But now I can get an extra 6% in p1, I lose 15-20% in p2, lose 2% in p3, and stay the same in p4. Add it up, I lose 11-16% damage, but I'm still doing more than 2% per phase. If you have 50% participation that looks like mine you can crush the raid since I'm going to be doing more than 4% in each and every phase except p3, and someone else can pick up my p3 slack by sacrificing a little in p4 or p1 where I'm going well over 4%.

    So not only can a guild of 50 players like me complete the raid with 50% participation, but you no longer have guild coordination specifying an exact time for players to hit & then holding on for an hour just to turn off airplane mode simultaneously with 30 other people, which I have to say is not my idea of fun.

    As a result, I suspect that participation will go up, since people can hit at their convenience. If I was the best in my guild (and I'm a long way from best in my guild), we could still beat the raid with 80-90% participation, and it would come without coordination headaches.

    No, this isn't going to be easy. Yes, each attempt is going to be very short, unless you're restarting to max out your score. But the guilds who did it before are going to be able to do it again unless they were guilds relying on only a very few heavy hitters while the rest of the guild contributed little to nothing.
  • TVF
    29564 posts Member
    @ TVF
    I don't like this. No I do not.

    do you have any particular criticism, or is it just a nebulous "don't like"?

    I don't like the threshold. I'd much rather keep it as is. Then again I'm not an officer that has to coordinate it.
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  • I'm happy for our whole guild to participate now, with 15-20 of us not being able to coordinate this will make a big difference. We couldn't clear because of this, now we can probably do it.
  • Ok so they're doubling down on guild coordination, in terms of relying on help from the majority of the guild, so there ought to be a commiserate change to the aeromagnifiers. Realistically 35ish people are likely going to have fairly similar contributions, and yet get vastly different rewards.

    Flatten the aeros more cg.

    Improve the rewards boxes and remove the terrible gear
  • Second, we want to expand the accessibility of the Challenge Tier within the Guilds completing it.
    You want it to be more accessible but you buff it so it's even more difficult to complete. Makes total sense....
  • Looooki
    621 posts Member
    Why don't they just set a certain gp for a guild to start in cpit? Might as well right?

    Thanks for encouraging pp for caring abt this raid
  • Hortus
    512 posts Member
    So... the stupid guild-wise gear check instead of some sort of interesting mechanic. And no rewards flattening. Well, at least the horrible "post in the same time" mechanic go away, I think we can't expect anything better for now. We can only hope that this solution is only for CPit, and in the future raids we will see something more creative. The hope is pretty thin though. :(
  • Mupper00
    122 posts Member
    edited March 6
    I’m grateful for the change to coordination , our guild suffered massivly because of this, we’ve had people leave to join less diversive time zone guilds to have a better shot at Cpit.

    We never ever got past P3 mainly because lack of wanting to participate at the same time and accidental posted damage.

    But......

    Should of done every 4%, that’s a scary change with the every 2%😳.

    With it every 4%, the GAS and Padme teams etc would still do the 4-5% they typically were in our guild anyway.
    But the slkrs especially would of been hurt like you wanted. Probably would of limited the best SLKR runs in P1 to 20% max?? Surely that’s ok.
  • Siete semplicemente vergognosi.
  • I was hoping for 5% thresholds. Would be nice if the first threshold could be 4%, then 2% thereafter. That wouldn’t be a massive change and would still have the desired effect, while allowing the padme gas teams etc to still achieve similar results
  • Nauros
    4275 posts Member
    Kard_1986 wrote: »
    I was hoping for 5% thresholds. Would be nice if the first threshold could be 4%, then 2% thereafter. That wouldn’t be a massive change and would still have the desired effect, while allowing the padme gas teams etc to still achieve similar results

    Padme will probably be mostly unaffected, I think that team could do that additional 1 - 2% against 20% increased stats. Clones teams may have trouble pulling off the last Rex attack, so it might end up a few percent short. The most affected will be SLKR, which just so happens to be the teams many guilds rely on to get through phases 2 and 3. We are robably talking about damage sliced to half or less for teams that aren't even totally optimized, much more for teams that can take out the majority of a phase in one go. It will take months to compensate for that.
    The conversation on our discord sums it up nicely:
    Me: Oh no, we won't get past phase 4 anymore with this.
    Raid coordinator: We won't even get to phase 4.
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  • Devian
    372 posts Member
    Quite.... interesting changes.
    Would love to see how squads perform
  • Nauros
    4275 posts Member
    Devian wrote: »
    Quite.... interesting changes.
    Would love to see how squads perform

    Worse than before, unless they never passed 2% in the first place. No need to wait to see that.
    Revive the stores, the game needs it.
  • Devian
    372 posts Member
    Enas_Yorl wrote: »
    as now everybody will have to contribute.
    OMG, how could such a thing happen
    this means no merc-farming?/(`O´)\
  • Devian
    372 posts Member
    edited March 6
    Nauros wrote: »
    Devian wrote: »
    Quite.... interesting changes.
    Would love to see how squads perform

    Worse than before, unless they never passed 2% in the first place. No need to wait to see that.
    Not sure, at least now I won't have to chose 4 best teams per phase and wait 30 min till ppl do "best run" or gather together
  • Nauros
    4275 posts Member
    Devian wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Devian wrote: »
    Quite.... interesting changes.
    Would love to see how squads perform

    Worse than before, unless they never passed 2% in the first place. No need to wait to see that.
    Not sure, at least now I won't have to chose 4 best teams per phase and wait 30 min till ppl do "best run" or gather together

    Any squad that goes over 2% will face increased stats, and therefore perform worse that now. There is no argument about it, except maybe for GLs which won't have their offensive capability reduced to zero that quickly. Sure, we can in theory use more squads per phase (not that there would be that many non-overlapping options), but each individual squad with significant damage will perform worse.
    Revive the stores, the game needs it.
  • I'm sure I've got 7 all r5 squads (with synergy) ready to go right now, and can have 9 by bumping up a few r3s to r5.

    I'm also not far away from getting a 10th squad (rebels), and I could have my 10th even sooner if I wanted to bring up my last 2 droids for GG, but I'd rather boost rebels since they're on my JML path, whenever I get around to that.

    I doubt there's anyone in my guild who can't field 3x r5 squads with synergy. We don't have to have teams that get more than 2% since we don't have to coordinate things any more. Even if all squads instantly died at 2%, I could do more than 3% in every phase. I'd get 4% in at least 2. And obviously squads won't die instantly at 2% - it's only a 20% boost. I expect I'll get 5% with SLKR + some junk if necessary in one phase and 3-4% in each of the others even before I get more than 7 full-synergy squads online.

    Well developed guilds aren't going to have a problem. Seriously. If you have a problem after this change, then your guild was far too reliant on just a few heavy hitters to get things done. Otherwise with everyone chipping away, you will get it done.

    And if you were one of those guilds who got Aeromagnifiers from just a few people doing a hugely disproportionate share of the damage, well, boost up some toons to r5. Should take about 1 week to relic each g11 or g12 toon, then a few more days to get that toon to r5 ... but since relic mats are different things from g11/g12 gear, you can work on boosting relic tier for one toon simultaneously with moving towards g13 for another.

    If you're planning ahead to push for the best RCT squads, it shouldn't take more than 15 weeks for the weakest members of the guild to start pulling their own weight in the raid, and probably only 10 weeks to start completing it again, if that (much less if you're only narrowly failing after the changes).

    For any mid-tier guild who was completing the raid before, this is a fairly small setback.
  • Nauros
    4275 posts Member
    > 10 to 15 weeks
    > fairly small setback
    Ok...
    Revive the stores, the game needs it.
  • TVF wrote: »
    I don't like this. No I do not.
    This man is a chaotic neutral, "Change My Mind"
  • Kyno
    29991 posts Moderator
    Nauros wrote: »
    > 10 to 15 weeks
    > fairly small setback
    Ok...

    I know you insist on being overly negative, but I feel from the information you have provided you are fine and will be able to get further than you think and a little work with your guild you will be doing it just fine, if not the first time back to it after the change.
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