Upcoming Changes To The Pit Challenge Tier [MEGA]

Replies

  • Kyno
    29921 posts Moderator
    TVF wrote: »
    I don't like this. No I do not.
    This man is a chaotic neutral, "Change My Mind"

    Alignments are too trendy for him to be one.
  • So let me get this right lots of guilds broke apart in the last 6 months due to this co ordination raid now it’s easy for CG to say we want to change this also with the new setup guilds will have to readjust again means more losses are we going to be compensated enough to R8 a character I don’t think so
    I would like to know what is CG planning to compensate everyone for something they didn’t do correctly
    Thanks
  • @ Nauros:

    If you've been playing the game for 2 years, then 10 weeks is a 10% setback.

    Also, as I said, I would expect the guild as a whole to regain the ability to complete the raid in much less time in most cases.

    only the ones at the very bitter end of the spectrum with 3-5 people over 7M gp and 40+ people almost entirely unprepared for the raid would have to wait that long.

    Just wait. There won't be that many guilds who were completing it who can no longer do so, and the amount of time to get back to completion won't be the full 10-15 weeks that it will require for their least prepared members to become equipped to do their share.
  • Nauros
    4273 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    > 10 to 15 weeks
    > fairly small setback
    Ok...

    I know you insist on being overly negative, but I feel from the information you have provided you are fine and will be able to get further than you think and a little work with your guild you will be doing it just fine, if not the first time back to it after the change.

    Stop with that "overly negative" crap. Most teams will be less effective, and that is a fact. It follows that guilds that barely made it will come up short, due to the reduced effectivity. It's called logic and realism, not negativity. Your feelings are irrelevant unless you have something to back them up and are willing to share it.
    Again, I know where my guild is better than you and the consensus with other officers is that we won't even make it to p4.
    Revive the stores, the game needs it.
  • Nauros
    4273 posts Member
    @ Nauros:

    If you've been playing the game for 2 years, then 10 weeks is a 10% setback.

    Also, as I said, I would expect the guild as a whole to regain the ability to complete the raid in much less time in most cases.

    only the ones at the very bitter end of the spectrum with 3-5 people over 7M gp and 40+ people almost entirely unprepared for the raid would have to wait that long.

    Just wait. There won't be that many guilds who were completing it who can no longer do so, and the amount of time to get back to completion won't be the full 10-15 weeks that it will require for their least prepared members to become equipped to do their share.

    Any amount of time is too much, because there should be no setback at all. When someone managed to do it before, it shouldn't be taken away. We won't come even close, and we aren't one of the extreme guilds you talk about. Or do you think you can judge our ability better than our officers?
    Revive the stores, the game needs it.
  • Devian wrote: »
    Enas_Yorl wrote: »
    as now everybody will have to contribute.
    OMG, how could such a thing happen
    this means no merc-farming?/(`O´)\
    1. And you think that's a good thing?
    2. Well, we'll see about that anyway.
  • TVF
    29529 posts Member
    15 weeks is almost four months lol, that's a ton of time and a huge setback to skip everything else for that long. Especially when new GLs are fairly certain to have dropped by then.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • camper288
    211 posts Member
    edited March 6
    I would like to be able to write in clear Portuguese, preferably with all the bad words at my disposal, I know it is not possible, so there is a long outburst.

    For me Crancor was so badly done that honestly, I prefer that they disable this raid, throw it in the trash and do another raid.
    Each mechanic is thought to stop some, notably the Sisters and the SLKR. I know this is not going to happen.

    I have been since January, that I finished the JML going towards another legend, what happened my guild asked to go in the direction of the SLKR are more than 2 months equipping the useless toons to release the legend. Where's my compensation for destroying my planning and, let's face it, most F2P players? If you are not going to compensate me then just do not destroy plans.

    Does CG really want to help?
    Remove all stacks and entry requirement R5. Rest is small talk. They want to nerf the SLKR to do this specifically for him, instead of thinking of a crazy formula that in addition to correcting the problems of CRancor will overturn Ludwig Von Mises' demonstration that socialism is impossible to succeed (I am exchanging a bad word for this hyperbole).

    From the beginning of Rancor it was said that the way the equipment is distributed is very uneven, what was done about it? Nothing. Where are all the other questions?

    No problem talking, let's help the international whale guilds to no longer have the problem of crazy synchronization that we created ourselves, you just don't have to throw the F2P mud.

    Detail my guild even though it is 100% Brazilian, I was unable to synchronize and even though I benefited in the long run the reaction was very negative.

  • It should be every 5% not every 2%
  • 15 weeks is almost four months lol, that's a ton of time and a huge setback to skip everything else for that long.

    I agree it's a long time in general. It's not a long time for SWGOH. If you can't stick with a goal for 15 weeks, this isn't your game.
  • Kyno
    29921 posts Moderator
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    It should be every 5% not every 2%

    May I ask why? It's a lower add than the original one which teams were surviving, so this add will not be as much of a hard line as many seem to think.
  • I am worried about our guilds performance after this change. We’ve been comfortably completing it for a good while now, but with a lot of synergy R5 teams being below 1% in P4 (and other phases) we did rely on a number of teams which can do 5-10% in P4 and to some extent teams which could do +10% in P1-3.
    With all high damage teams significantly nerfed, I’m not sure we will make it and I think this could be true for a lot of guilds.

    I’ll reserve final judgement until we’ve actually tried the raid, but I’m pretty sceptical.
    And again, just having a full synergy R5 team does not mean you can do anywhere near 2%
  • Kudlaty
    77 posts Member
    I'm starting to wonder if those of us that complained about coordination were the vocal minority XD

    We need everyone to average a total of 8% across the raid. Vader teams should still be good for 4-5% in P1 (just throw the saber once, near the end). Padme should still be good for 3-4% in P1-3. P2/3 should have tons of teams capable of 2% from just a single topple. And we don't need to save Han, Jango, Malak for P4 junk time anymore.

    Save your GLs for P4. SLK could do 2% in P4 already. Rey+Jedi should still be good for about 4%. Those with GLs have req toons that can chip for a good 0.5% to 1%.

    While I will miss getting big numbers. I look forward to getting my damage for each phase in a 12-hour window instead of a 15-minute window.

    I get that change is scary, and many of us acclimated to the coordination paradigm; but I'm still surprised at the level of panicked outrage at these changes.

    This, a thousand times this. I’m cautiously optimistic about this change, probably some team composition change will be needed - it will be better to have two “weaker” teams per phase, that get us 2x3% than one stronger team that dies immediately after 4% threshold ;) maybe let’s give this change a try before burning it at the stake...
  • Checked with devs. Here's the breakdown:

    2% Health lost this battle = 20% total stat increase
    4% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% = 60% total stat increase
    6% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% = 120% total stat increase
    8% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% + 80% = 200% total stat increase
    10% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% + 80% + 100% = 300% total stat increase

    You do realize that while you've effectively nerfed the SLKR solo (which took god mods and crazy rng to accomplish), you've nerfed all the mid level raid teams like Padme, Clones, CLS that used to be able to get 4-6% damage, and they'll now maybe get 1/2 that?

    2% is just a horrible number for the devs to have chosen. They could have made it 5% and accomplished the same goals without making it even harder to beat this thing.
  • Kyno
    29921 posts Moderator
    frackme_21 wrote: »
    Checked with devs. Here's the breakdown:

    2% Health lost this battle = 20% total stat increase
    4% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% = 60% total stat increase
    6% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% = 120% total stat increase
    8% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% + 80% = 200% total stat increase
    10% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% + 80% + 100% = 300% total stat increase

    You do realize that while you've effectively nerfed the SLKR solo (which took god mods and crazy rng to accomplish), you've nerfed all the mid level raid teams like Padme, Clones, CLS that used to be able to get 4-6% damage, and they'll now maybe get 1/2 that?

    2% is just a horrible number for the devs to have chosen. They could have made it 5% and accomplished the same goals without making it even harder to beat this thing.

    They are removing one element that made it harder to beat, they were always going to replace that with something that would keep it difficult, they made it (possibly a little)harder, but allowed player to use more than 4-6 teams to beat it.

    5% would have made it easier, because of the lowered additional stats. I'm sure they could have kept playing with the numbers and taken even longer to test this over and over again, but that wouldnt really be a welcome addition to this process.

    Either way they would have brought it to a place where it pushes development.

    Part of the process was designed to keep team order intact, so to bring down top teams meant the others had to be scaled accordingly to preserve investment.
  • Ravens1113
    3392 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    frackme_21 wrote: »
    Checked with devs. Here's the breakdown:

    2% Health lost this battle = 20% total stat increase
    4% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% = 60% total stat increase
    6% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% = 120% total stat increase
    8% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% + 80% = 200% total stat increase
    10% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% + 80% + 100% = 300% total stat increase

    You do realize that while you've effectively nerfed the SLKR solo (which took god mods and crazy rng to accomplish), you've nerfed all the mid level raid teams like Padme, Clones, CLS that used to be able to get 4-6% damage, and they'll now maybe get 1/2 that?

    2% is just a horrible number for the devs to have chosen. They could have made it 5% and accomplished the same goals without making it even harder to beat this thing.

    They are removing one element that made it harder to beat, they were always going to replace that with something that would keep it difficult, they made it (possibly a little)harder, but allowed player to use more than 4-6 teams to beat it.

    5% would have made it easier, because of the lowered additional stats. I'm sure they could have kept playing with the numbers and taken even longer to test this over and over again, but that wouldnt really be a welcome addition to this process.

    Either way they would have brought it to a place where it pushes development.

    Part of the process was designed to keep team order intact, so to bring down top teams meant the others had to be scaled accordingly to preserve investment.

    So 5% thresholds wouldn’t have made that same goal a reality?
  • Beeblebrox wrote: »
    I love how CG are congratulating themselves for "listening to feedback" and making changes...when they were told before they even released this into the main game to NOT do it the way they went ahead and did it! It's possible they'd have not even bothered changing the way it works if it weren't for the fact that they wanted to make the raid much harder for individuals after a couple of players managed to put together squads with great modding that did 100% of P1 and apparently CG's approach to gaming is "never let the gamers actually beat a level"!

    Exactly. With the aggravating factor that instead of doing this immediately, they took 86 days between the announcement of the Raid and that. And they're not there to mess up people's planning. And they still say it is to help since all other complaints have not even been heard.
    Correcting an error with another error does not make a right.

  • Kyno
    29921 posts Moderator
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    frackme_21 wrote: »
    Checked with devs. Here's the breakdown:

    2% Health lost this battle = 20% total stat increase
    4% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% = 60% total stat increase
    6% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% = 120% total stat increase
    8% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% + 80% = 200% total stat increase
    10% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% + 80% + 100% = 300% total stat increase

    You do realize that while you've effectively nerfed the SLKR solo (which took god mods and crazy rng to accomplish), you've nerfed all the mid level raid teams like Padme, Clones, CLS that used to be able to get 4-6% damage, and they'll now maybe get 1/2 that?

    2% is just a horrible number for the devs to have chosen. They could have made it 5% and accomplished the same goals without making it even harder to beat this thing.

    They are removing one element that made it harder to beat, they were always going to replace that with something that would keep it difficult, they made it (possibly a little)harder, but allowed player to use more than 4-6 teams to beat it.

    5% would have made it easier, because of the lowered additional stats. I'm sure they could have kept playing with the numbers and taken even longer to test this over and over again, but that wouldnt really be a welcome addition to this process.

    Either way they would have brought it to a place where it pushes development.

    Part of the process was designed to keep team order intact, so to bring down top teams meant the others had to be scaled accordingly to preserve investment.

    So 5% thresholds wouldn’t have made that same goal a reality?

    The general discussion around this was that testing at 5% made it easier.
  • Earlier in this thread I’ll have complained about the existing mechanic. I now, rather predictably, would prefer they just left it as it is instead of making this change.

    Our guild (now 308M GP) failed our first 3 attempts, then cleared, then failed again due to an accipost almost immediately in p1.

    We’ve passed them all since, and have survived some pretty scary acciposts (including tonight with a 24% p3 post when we only had 3 other players actually in the phase at that time).

    But, for all the airplane mode stuff was annoying, the raid rewarded good modding, good strategy and good coordination. Once these changes drop, it will reward roster depth - period.

    RNG in the current setup means the difference between needing 4 teams to clear p2 or 5 teams. Once the changes drop, it’ll be the difference between needing 15 teams or 16 teams.

  • TVF
    29529 posts Member
    15 weeks is almost four months lol, that's a ton of time and a huge setback to skip everything else for that long.

    I agree it's a long time in general. It's not a long time for SWGOH. If you can't stick with a goal for 15 weeks, this isn't your game.

    It's an eternity in SWGOH if new GLs are in the horizon. Shrug.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF
    29529 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    frackme_21 wrote: »
    Checked with devs. Here's the breakdown:

    2% Health lost this battle = 20% total stat increase
    4% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% = 60% total stat increase
    6% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% = 120% total stat increase
    8% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% + 80% = 200% total stat increase
    10% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% + 80% + 100% = 300% total stat increase

    You do realize that while you've effectively nerfed the SLKR solo (which took god mods and crazy rng to accomplish), you've nerfed all the mid level raid teams like Padme, Clones, CLS that used to be able to get 4-6% damage, and they'll now maybe get 1/2 that?

    2% is just a horrible number for the devs to have chosen. They could have made it 5% and accomplished the same goals without making it even harder to beat this thing.

    They are removing one element that made it harder to beat, they were always going to replace that with something that would keep it difficult, they made it (possibly a little)harder, but allowed player to use more than 4-6 teams to beat it.

    5% would have made it easier, because of the lowered additional stats. I'm sure they could have kept playing with the numbers and taken even longer to test this over and over again, but that wouldnt really be a welcome addition to this process.

    Either way they would have brought it to a place where it pushes development.

    Part of the process was designed to keep team order intact, so to bring down top teams meant the others had to be scaled accordingly to preserve investment.

    So 5% thresholds wouldn’t have made that same goal a reality?

    The general discussion around this was that testing at 5% made it easier.

    Ok how about 4%?
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Kyno
    29921 posts Moderator
    TVF wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    frackme_21 wrote: »
    Checked with devs. Here's the breakdown:

    2% Health lost this battle = 20% total stat increase
    4% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% = 60% total stat increase
    6% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% = 120% total stat increase
    8% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% + 80% = 200% total stat increase
    10% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% + 80% + 100% = 300% total stat increase

    You do realize that while you've effectively nerfed the SLKR solo (which took god mods and crazy rng to accomplish), you've nerfed all the mid level raid teams like Padme, Clones, CLS that used to be able to get 4-6% damage, and they'll now maybe get 1/2 that?

    2% is just a horrible number for the devs to have chosen. They could have made it 5% and accomplished the same goals without making it even harder to beat this thing.

    They are removing one element that made it harder to beat, they were always going to replace that with something that would keep it difficult, they made it (possibly a little)harder, but allowed player to use more than 4-6 teams to beat it.

    5% would have made it easier, because of the lowered additional stats. I'm sure they could have kept playing with the numbers and taken even longer to test this over and over again, but that wouldnt really be a welcome addition to this process.

    Either way they would have brought it to a place where it pushes development.

    Part of the process was designed to keep team order intact, so to bring down top teams meant the others had to be scaled accordingly to preserve investment.

    So 5% thresholds wouldn’t have made that same goal a reality?

    The general discussion around this was that testing at 5% made it easier.

    Ok how about 4%?

    How about 2%?
  • Question. For the loss of offense and mastery, is the stacking like Nest's bonus protection or normal? That is, do I lose 50% max total, or is it 5 then 10 more (15 total) then 15 more (30 total) etc?
  • MaruMaru
    2255 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    frackme_21 wrote: »
    Checked with devs. Here's the breakdown:

    2% Health lost this battle = 20% total stat increase
    4% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% = 60% total stat increase
    6% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% = 120% total stat increase
    8% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% + 80% = 200% total stat increase
    10% Health lost this battle = 20% + 40% + 60% + 80% + 100% = 300% total stat increase

    You do realize that while you've effectively nerfed the SLKR solo (which took god mods and crazy rng to accomplish), you've nerfed all the mid level raid teams like Padme, Clones, CLS that used to be able to get 4-6% damage, and they'll now maybe get 1/2 that?

    2% is just a horrible number for the devs to have chosen. They could have made it 5% and accomplished the same goals without making it even harder to beat this thing.

    They are removing one element that made it harder to beat, they were always going to replace that with something that would keep it difficult, they made it (possibly a little)harder, but allowed player to use more than 4-6 teams to beat it.

    5% would have made it easier, because of the lowered additional stats. I'm sure they could have kept playing with the numbers and taken even longer to test this over and over again, but that wouldnt really be a welcome addition to this process.

    Either way they would have brought it to a place where it pushes development.

    Part of the process was designed to keep team order intact, so to bring down top teams meant the others had to be scaled accordingly to preserve investment.

    So 5% thresholds wouldn’t have made that same goal a reality?

    The general discussion around this was that testing at 5% made it easier.

    Ok how about 4%?

    %4.5 and we got a deal.
  • @ DarjeloSalas
    RNG in the current setup means the difference between needing 4 teams to clear p2 or 5 teams. Once the changes drop, it’ll be the difference between needing 15 teams or 16 teams

    Wait, you're in a 308M gp guild who will have no problems completing this and you're complaining that a raid specifically intended to require a whole guild effort will now require ... 16/50 people to participate?

    Wow. That's ... that's a take, that is.

    @ Everyone

    It's only +20% people.

    The Rancor CT is a vicious, powerful beast, but we have teams that survive +75% and keep functioning for a few turns.

    To think that +20% equates to instant death is simply not reasonable. 4% teams will now get 3%, not 2%. You have to have turns in which the rancor acts for that +20% to even become relevant.

    4-6% teams will now top out at 4%, and some runs will fall down near 3.2-3.3%. But 3.2 - 4.0/4.1 isn't a crisis. You only need 25 of those solid, mid-tier teams, then 2 super teams that used to get over 20% (and now get 6%) and you have 12 hours per phase to find them. If that doesn't quite make it, throwng in junk for 0.2% at a time is just fine.

    You still need fewer than 30 people participating, and now they won't need to be coordinated & forced to hold scores in airplane mode.

    There's no big reason to worry about this. There are going to be few guilds that could complete this before that won't complete it under the new rules. I complain about CG all the time, but this was a necessary change. CG couldn't expect the game to survive if they made the guild officers, who are responsible for so much unpaid work that makes the game fun for the rest of us, completely miserable. And many guild officers hated the coordination efforts required of them.

    Play the game, wait for the new rules to hit, see how it goes. It's going to be fine, really.
  • Kyno
    29921 posts Moderator
    Question. For the loss of offense and mastery, is the stacking like Nest's bonus protection or normal? That is, do I lose 50% max total, or is it 5 then 10 more (15 total) then 15 more (30 total) etc?

    Normal.
  • MetaThumper
    496 posts Member
    edited March 7
    Once these changes drop, it will reward roster depth - period.


    Great news
  • Theory crafting is what keeps thoughtful players engaged with this game. This raid mechanic effectively saps the enjoyment from what made the other raids fun. The Challenge Pit raid is the most uninspiring, unimaginative, and unfulfilling game content to date. CG missed the mark badly by trying to make this content completely unaccessable to the majority of guilds. The goal posts need to be set at least in view to be encouraging. There has been other challenging content that we were excited to build up for. This one just seems mean spirited and insulting.
  • @ DarjeloSalas
    RNG in the current setup means the difference between needing 4 teams to clear p2 or 5 teams. Once the changes drop, it’ll be the difference between needing 15 teams or 16 teams

    Wait, you're in a 308M gp guild who will have no problems completing this and you're complaining that a raid specifically intended to require a whole guild effort will now require ... 16/50 people to participate?

    Wow. That's ... that's a take, that is.

    @ Everyone

    It's only +20% people.

    The Rancor CT is a vicious, powerful beast, but we have teams that survive +75% and keep functioning for a few turns.

    To think that +20% equates to instant death is simply not reasonable. 4% teams will now get 3%, not 2%. You have to have turns in which the rancor acts for that +20% to even become relevant.

    4-6% teams will now top out at 4%, and some runs will fall down near 3.2-3.3%. But 3.2 - 4.0/4.1 isn't a crisis. You only need 25 of those solid, mid-tier teams, then 2 super teams that used to get over 20% (and now get 6%) and you have 12 hours per phase to find them. If that doesn't quite make it, throwng in junk for 0.2% at a time is just fine.

    You still need fewer than 30 people participating, and now they won't need to be coordinated & forced to hold scores in airplane mode.

    There's no big reason to worry about this. There are going to be few guilds that could complete this before that won't complete it under the new rules. I complain about CG all the time, but this was a necessary change. CG couldn't expect the game to survive if they made the guild officers, who are responsible for so much unpaid work that makes the game fun for the rest of us, completely miserable. And many guild officers hated the coordination efforts required of them.

    Play the game, wait for the new rules to hit, see how it goes. It's going to be fine, really.

    At no time did I say that change is not necessary.
    It is necessary. The way it is being done is being criticized.

    1) Guilds that are coordinated but do not have a deep list will be harmed immediately.

    2) 86 days of investment and planning between the announcement of the raid and the change. players made investments assuming a pattern and now it changes. The CG does not even have the right to say that this was not warned by the players, it was. This demands compensation.

    3) When correcting the error, instead of reducing the difficulty as compensation for the mess, they will increase exponentially.

    4) The demand for a better balance of the prizes was simply ignored. Several people came up with great formulas for the awards. The topic is there in the forum.

    5) Reliquia 5 is still abusive for entry. What is the reason why I cannot sacrifice any toon for it to be devoured, besides this obvious use of other toons there is another answer. The fear of the initiates / spirit paper, allowing the deathstorm to greatly facilitate and increase the number of guilds that would complete the raid. there are other solutions for this loop of simply put reliquia 5, but they are too lazy to imagine and test another one.

    They made a specific solution against the SLKR, do another one against the sisters (decreasing tenacity / potency buff for the players' toons while Rancor is stuck in the door) are just a few ideas.

    In summary, the measures announced are insufficient and / or wrong.
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