Upcoming Changes To The Pit Challenge Tier [MEGA]

Replies

  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Bear654687 wrote: »
    Recurve wrote: »

    Also please note that in phase 2 there are a lot of teams that struggle to get over 1% let alone close to 2%.

    Padme, Vader, Clones, SLKR, CLS, Rey, Jedi, Troopers, all EASILY, I'll repeat again, EASILY get over 2%.

    Are you just pressing auto with bad mods?

    And now with a 2% threshold will not do as well as they would have beyond that if the thresholds were 5%.

    Correct, but I dont think anyone is arguing that.

    Also that is, at least in part, what made the 5% threshold "too easy".
  • With this change why is the R5 requirement still needed? It is not necessary...obviously a team below the threshold wouldn’t last long. With the intent not to have one team making 20% damage “fixed”...in the guise of helping the coordination issue...open it up.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    With this change why is the R5 requirement still needed? It is not necessary...obviously a team below the threshold wouldn’t last long. With the intent not to have one team making 20% damage “fixed”...in the guise of helping the coordination issue...open it up.

    In the original conversation about this, lowing that entry requirement would have needed an increase in difficulty. I would imagine that a similar sentiment would have been applied here. I'm not sure if anyone wants it to be even more difficult....
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    With this change why is the R5 requirement still needed? It is not necessary...obviously a team below the threshold wouldn’t last long. With the intent not to have one team making 20% damage “fixed”...in the guise of helping the coordination issue...open it up.

    In the original conversation about this, lowing that entry requirement would have needed an increase in difficulty. I would imagine that a similar sentiment would have been applied here. I'm not sure if anyone wants it to be even more difficult....

    It is more difficult now
  • StarSon
    7426 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    With this change why is the R5 requirement still needed? It is not necessary...obviously a team below the threshold wouldn’t last long. With the intent not to have one team making 20% damage “fixed”...in the guise of helping the coordination issue...open it up.

    In the original conversation about this, lowing that entry requirement would have needed an increase in difficulty. I would imagine that a similar sentiment would have been applied here. I'm not sure if anyone wants it to be even more difficult....

    Sometimes I wonder how much you think about things before you say them. For example:

    "The initial conversation was that to lower the relic requirement would mean they would make it harder."

    CG has made it harder and you say

    "No one wants it to be harder."

    What?

    Logically, if they could only lower the relic gate if they made it more difficult, since they have made it more difficult, could they not now lower the relic gate?
  • Konju
    1175 posts Member
    Honestly, I think they should just throw this raid in the trash and light it on fire. It was ill-conceived from the start and the changes remain as such. It’s not fun, it only offers another crunch without alleviating previous crunches, it has been a pain/time drain for many players (officers in particular), the “flatter” reward structure has created more guild in-fighting, and it is taking valuable time away from the devs creating something original with greater potential. It was and will continue to be horrible and will never be anything special that players will celebrate. Such a shame and massive disappointment.

    Obviously, they won’t just scrap it (even though it’s what this raid deserves), but as a suggestion to the devs, do NOT repeat this mistake with HAAT or HSTR. Please create a new raid instead.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    With this change why is the R5 requirement still needed? It is not necessary...obviously a team below the threshold wouldn’t last long. With the intent not to have one team making 20% damage “fixed”...in the guise of helping the coordination issue...open it up.

    In the original conversation about this, lowing that entry requirement would have needed an increase in difficulty. I would imagine that a similar sentiment would have been applied here. I'm not sure if anyone wants it to be even more difficult....

    It is more difficult now
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    With this change why is the R5 requirement still needed? It is not necessary...obviously a team below the threshold wouldn’t last long. With the intent not to have one team making 20% damage “fixed”...in the guise of helping the coordination issue...open it up.

    In the original conversation about this, lowing that entry requirement would have needed an increase in difficulty. I would imagine that a similar sentiment would have been applied here. I'm not sure if anyone wants it to be even more difficult....

    Sometimes I wonder how much you think about things before you say them. For example:

    "The initial conversation was that to lower the relic requirement would mean they would make it harder."

    CG has made it harder and you say

    "No one wants it to be harder."

    What?

    Logically, if they could only lower the relic gate if they made it more difficult, since they have made it more difficult, could they not now lower the relic gate?

    If they would have made the original one more difficult to do that, then this change would have been on top of that, not in lieu of.
  • Bear654687 wrote: »
    Recurve wrote: »

    Also please note that in phase 2 there are a lot of teams that struggle to get over 1% let alone close to 2%.

    Padme, Vader, Clones, SLKR, CLS, Rey, Jedi, Troopers, all EASILY, I'll repeat again, EASILY get over 2%.

    Are you just pressing auto with bad mods?

    Apologies, I meant in phase 4, there were too many 2's being thrown around in this thread.
    Phase 4 is hard for a lot of teams and they can struggle to get over 1%.

    The proposed method does indeed help use multiple teams in the last phase once you get below the 80% threshold but, as stated already, it seems like you will need more teams in the other phases so most likely you won't even have the extra teams to run here anyway!

  • Kyno wrote: »

    No, not really, as that math would need to involve in game mechanics and values that would show an impossibility due to the values.

    You can assume what you want, but we know players can get 2% per phase, as that is possible now, and this change doesnt effect that.

    Yes some teams do struggle with certain %s of score, but luckily this change opens this up to multiple teams being able to be run by one player. This allows players to do more damage to either raise their scores or make up for others. Also, we have the opening up of the availability to allow more players to get involved.

    Either way it is possible that many guilds, even ones that dont think they can do it, may be proven wrong and be able to make it with some slight adjustments to play and planning.

    I have not assumed anything other than the fact that the majority of guilds will not have all players having 4 teams each capable of 2%. You are assuming that everyone who attempts this raid does. Not every guild that clears this raid are whales with full relic rosters.

    Hell even players that have SLKR or Rey can't exactly use the relic 5 characters for the pre requisites, the teams that do damage with these GLs has SLKR with only hux and Kru, where as Rey doesn't even use any of her resistance (except everyone loves to use Rose as a sacrifice). Good luck the rest of the faction getting anywhere close to 2% as a team.
  • Having 8 members with GL's not being able to coordinate and 40+ r5 and another 5 who have 20+ r5 unable to coordinate will give us potential to complete this raid, 30 of us can manage P4 down to 47% currently.
    Knowing we have current capabilities and being unable to complete this is super annoying and has seen members leave the guild already.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Recurve wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »

    No, not really, as that math would need to involve in game mechanics and values that would show an impossibility due to the values.

    You can assume what you want, but we know players can get 2% per phase, as that is possible now, and this change doesnt effect that.

    Yes some teams do struggle with certain %s of score, but luckily this change opens this up to multiple teams being able to be run by one player. This allows players to do more damage to either raise their scores or make up for others. Also, we have the opening up of the availability to allow more players to get involved.

    Either way it is possible that many guilds, even ones that dont think they can do it, may be proven wrong and be able to make it with some slight adjustments to play and planning.

    I have not assumed anything other than the fact that the majority of guilds will not have all players having 4 teams each capable of 2%. You are assuming that everyone who attempts this raid does. Not every guild that clears this raid are whales with full relic rosters.

    Hell even players that have SLKR or Rey can't exactly use the relic 5 characters for the pre requisites, the teams that do damage with these GLs has SLKR with only hux and Kru, where as Rey doesn't even use any of her resistance (except everyone loves to use Rose as a sacrifice). Good luck the rest of the faction getting anywhere close to 2% as a team.

    That's fine, you dont need 2% per phase, that is just the idealized goal that is used when starting any raid, which this one falls more in line with now.

    I actually dotn assume that, I have said multiple times that the gernal number has been sub 30, and this opens up the raid for more participation.

    Yes I understand that not all guilds have whales, and that a new play will need to be used to make the raid work with this change.

    The new plan of coordination will be much like the Sith raid, making sure you spread out the effective teams to math out the phase, while players try to approach an overall average of 2%. We already know other teams will do at least or more than 2% so the average of 2% total per player is achievable, and even to have some players make up for others short falls.

    Coordinating across the phases to make sure you have enough gas will be "the new challenge".

    All the scrubs previously not used dont need to do 2%, and will be able to contribute to an extent, and most will fair better than the end P4 chip runs we have all been doing.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    With this change why is the R5 requirement still needed? It is not necessary...obviously a team below the threshold wouldn’t last long. With the intent not to have one team making 20% damage “fixed”...in the guise of helping the coordination issue...open it up.

    In the original conversation about this, lowing that entry requirement would have needed an increase in difficulty. I would imagine that a similar sentiment would have been applied here. I'm not sure if anyone wants it to be even more difficult....

    It is more difficult now
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    With this change why is the R5 requirement still needed? It is not necessary...obviously a team below the threshold wouldn’t last long. With the intent not to have one team making 20% damage “fixed”...in the guise of helping the coordination issue...open it up.

    In the original conversation about this, lowing that entry requirement would have needed an increase in difficulty. I would imagine that a similar sentiment would have been applied here. I'm not sure if anyone wants it to be even more difficult....

    Sometimes I wonder how much you think about things before you say them. For example:

    "The initial conversation was that to lower the relic requirement would mean they would make it harder."

    CG has made it harder and you say

    "No one wants it to be harder."

    What?

    Logically, if they could only lower the relic gate if they made it more difficult, since they have made it more difficult, could they not now lower the relic gate?

    If they would have made the original one more difficult to do that, then this change would have been on top of that, not in lieu of.

    Kyno the changes weren’t made because of difficulty. If the devs are claiming the then they’re wrong. It wasn’t difficult, it was a scheduling nightmare for officers and a terrible ask for international guilds. That’s why this change needed to happen. As a result of the change and their universal mechanic being rescinded, they needed to make the thresholds lower. I get that. My dream was 10%. However that was with the 75% ramp up. I figured it would be fair. Instead they chose a compounding 20% increase. Ok fine. 10% is too high. Make it 5% for their current stacks. That means at 10% damage it’s just short what 75% per threshold would’ve done per run. Still fair. Instead they make it 2%. That’s too low. Many agree.

    If they either made the current stacking mechanic trigger per 5% I don’t think anyone could argue agains that logic. If they even made the stacking just a base 20% per and left it at 2% I can see that logic and would still think it stiff penalty but couldn’t complain. Like I’ve been saying, there’s a middle ground to this but it seems they’re not going to come off it. They’ve already made it clear they won’t change the relic gate (surprise...).
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    With this change why is the R5 requirement still needed? It is not necessary...obviously a team below the threshold wouldn’t last long. With the intent not to have one team making 20% damage “fixed”...in the guise of helping the coordination issue...open it up.

    In the original conversation about this, lowing that entry requirement would have needed an increase in difficulty. I would imagine that a similar sentiment would have been applied here. I'm not sure if anyone wants it to be even more difficult....

    It is more difficult now
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    With this change why is the R5 requirement still needed? It is not necessary...obviously a team below the threshold wouldn’t last long. With the intent not to have one team making 20% damage “fixed”...in the guise of helping the coordination issue...open it up.

    In the original conversation about this, lowing that entry requirement would have needed an increase in difficulty. I would imagine that a similar sentiment would have been applied here. I'm not sure if anyone wants it to be even more difficult....

    Sometimes I wonder how much you think about things before you say them. For example:

    "The initial conversation was that to lower the relic requirement would mean they would make it harder."

    CG has made it harder and you say

    "No one wants it to be harder."

    What?

    Logically, if they could only lower the relic gate if they made it more difficult, since they have made it more difficult, could they not now lower the relic gate?

    If they would have made the original one more difficult to do that, then this change would have been on top of that, not in lieu of.

    Kyno the changes weren’t made because of difficulty. If the devs are claiming the then they’re wrong. It wasn’t difficult, it was a scheduling nightmare for officers and a terrible ask for international guilds. That’s why this change needed to happen. As a result of the change and their universal mechanic being rescinded, they needed to make the thresholds lower. I get that. My dream was 10%. However that was with the 75% ramp up. I figured it would be fair. Instead they chose a compounding 20% increase. Ok fine. 10% is too high. Make it 5% for their current stacks. That means at 10% damage it’s just short what 75% per threshold would’ve done per run. Still fair. Instead they make it 2%. That’s too low. Many agree.

    If they either made the current stacking mechanic trigger per 5% I don’t think anyone could argue agains that logic. If they even made the stacking just a base 20% per and left it at 2% I can see that logic and would still think it stiff penalty but couldn’t complain. Like I’ve been saying, there’s a middle ground to this but it seems they’re not going to come off it. They’ve already made it clear they won’t change the relic gate (surprise...).

    So a raid that limits a player to 4-8 teams at best is not more difficult than one that has no real limit on that?

    When did I say this change was about difficulty?

    I get it that you want that, it would also make sense that many want that, as it would make things easier. They felt that the testing showed that to be easier than was intended for this content. Part of this is actual run difficulty and the other side of this is coordination. The lower threshold does help limit players to force a level of coordination on which teams and when (much like other raids)

    All I was discussing was the relic gate, and what was the general way things went.
  • 0dysseusK wrote: »
    Do we know yet what will happen if guilds are mid-raid when the game is updated? Will the changes go into effect immediately or with the next raid?

    The changes will never affect a raid in progress.

    The original post stated "there will be an announcement on the release date for these changes several days in advance in order to help Guilds coordinate when to launch their raids."

    I spoke with some of the devs and they said once the changes are implemented in-game it WILL effect Raids (even those in progress).
  • 0dysseusK wrote: »
    Do we know yet what will happen if guilds are mid-raid when the game is updated? Will the changes go into effect immediately or with the next raid?

    The changes will never affect a raid in progress.

    The original post stated "there will be an announcement on the release date for these changes several days in advance in order to help Guilds coordinate when to launch their raids."

    I spoke with some of the devs and they said once the changes are implemented in-game it WILL effect Raids (even those in progress).
    Ouch.

    Expect some flack - any time there’s been mistakes in platoons etc in a TB that’s running, the party line has always been “we cannot change an event in progress”.

    I understand that raids and TBs are not the same thing, but John Q Forumer likely won’t.
  • Konju
    1175 posts Member
    Any idea on a timeline?
  • TVF
    36572 posts Member
    0dysseusK wrote: »
    Do we know yet what will happen if guilds are mid-raid when the game is updated? Will the changes go into effect immediately or with the next raid?

    The changes will never affect a raid in progress.

    The original post stated "there will be an announcement on the release date for these changes several days in advance in order to help Guilds coordinate when to launch their raids."

    I spoke with some of the devs and they said once the changes are implemented in-game it WILL effect Raids (even those in progress).
    Ouch.

    Expect some flack - any time there’s been mistakes in platoons etc in a TB that’s running, the party line has always been “we cannot change an event in progress”.

    I understand that raids and TBs are not the same thing, but John Q Forumer likely won’t.

    That guy doesn't like anything tbf ngl.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF
    36572 posts Member
    Konju wrote: »
    Any idea on a timeline?

    I'll answer that one.

    Yes.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • 0dysseusK wrote: »
    Do we know yet what will happen if guilds are mid-raid when the game is updated? Will the changes go into effect immediately or with the next raid?

    The changes will never affect a raid in progress.

    The original post stated "there will be an announcement on the release date for these changes several days in advance in order to help Guilds coordinate when to launch their raids."

    I spoke with some of the devs and they said once the changes are implemented in-game it WILL effect Raids (even those in progress).
    Ouch.

    Expect some flack - any time there’s been mistakes in platoons etc in a TB that’s running, the party line has always been “we cannot change an event in progress”.

    I understand that raids and TBs are not the same thing, but John Q Forumer likely won’t.

    It's extremely difficult/risky to change an event that's currently ongoing. Raids are different, because a guild can launch one at any time. If there were a way around having it affect a raid in progress, I'm sure the devs would've made it happen. But, apparently that's not possible in this situation, so we're providing advanced notice
  • PepsiAddict
    311 posts Member
    edited March 2021
    If we are given a 48 hour notice before implementation, we can then choose to launch a rancor raid pre-, post- or mid-change.
    Participation trophy? No. You want something: earn it.
  • Konju
    1175 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    Any idea on a timeline?

    I'll answer that one.

    Yes.

    As always, you are extremely helpful. 😂
  • 0dysseusK wrote: »
    Do we know yet what will happen if guilds are mid-raid when the game is updated? Will the changes go into effect immediately or with the next raid?

    The changes will never affect a raid in progress.

    The original post stated "there will be an announcement on the release date for these changes several days in advance in order to help Guilds coordinate when to launch their raids."

    I spoke with some of the devs and they said once the changes are implemented in-game it WILL effect Raids (even those in progress).
    Ouch.

    Expect some flack - any time there’s been mistakes in platoons etc in a TB that’s running, the party line has always been “we cannot change an event in progress”.

    I understand that raids and TBs are not the same thing, but John Q Forumer likely won’t.

    It's extremely difficult/risky to change an event that's currently ongoing. Raids are different, because a guild can launch one at any time. If there were a way around having it affect a raid in progress, I'm sure the devs would've made it happen. But, apparently that's not possible in this situation, so we're providing advanced notice

    Proposal: Fill everyone's Extra Crispy Crancor tickets to full when the change is made to allow us to try the new one right away, like we were able to launch Original Recipe Crancor right away if we wanted. If someone gets hit by a bug when it changes, then they don't suffer the loss of a round of Crancor
  • UPDATE: The CT Rancor Raid changes will be happening Wednesday around 3pm PST. Please keep this in mind as your guild decides when to launch a new raid as the changes are expected to affect runs in progress.
  • Over 48 hour notice! Nicely done @CG_Doja_Fett
    Thank you!!!
    Participation trophy? No. You want something: earn it.
  • Ultra
    11491 posts Moderator
    Thanks for the heads up,

    I’m guessing they didn’t budge with upping the minimum Aerosmith’s for the guild?
  • Nauros
    5429 posts Member
    Thanks for the heads up Doja.
  • Yeah the aero distribution is really unfair, keep in mind I say that being someone who likes to be positive towards CG.
  • Nice notification on timing 👍
    Anything on the terrible reward structure? We going to see actual flattening of the quantities? @CG_Doja_Fett
  • Flatten the curve 😂
  • So maybe we aren’t supposed to ask this, but will Relic 8 material ever be more accessible and/or evenly distributed? The reason I ask, my fear, along with some others, is that Relic 8 toons will be required for future GLs. So I guess the question is is there any plan to revisit aeromagnifier distribution?
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