10M GP reached!

Replies

  • Nikoms565
    14242 posts Member
    For some reason I can't say "mahogany" without using a Sean Connery accent.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • RTS
    528 posts Member
    th3evo wrote: »
    Sports players can't really pay to be better. They can't buy something to improve their physique faster.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    *deep breath*

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
  • th3evo
    358 posts Member
    RTS wrote: »
    th3evo wrote: »
    Sports players can't really pay to be better. They can't buy something to improve their physique faster.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    *deep breath*

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Explain?
  • th3evo wrote: »
    RTS wrote: »
    th3evo wrote: »
    Sports players can't really pay to be better. They can't buy something to improve their physique faster.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    *deep breath*

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Explain?
    Steroids / performance enhancing drugs seem to have done the trick in the past.
  • th3evo
    358 posts Member
    Steroids / performance enhancing drugs seem to have done the trick in the past.

    Those things don't guarantee success. You still need talent even if you use illegal substances.
    No matter how many I take I won't become the next Wayne Gretzky, Lionel Messi, Tony Hawk etc.
    However if I (or you or anyone else) spend enough money I can become one of the top players in this game. It's even easier in other games.
  • Konju
    1127 posts Member
    State of the art gym equipment, personal trainers, personal nutritionists, best food available, best apparel available all help athletes. These things cost money.
  • th3evo
    358 posts Member
    Konju wrote: »
    State of the art gym equipment, personal trainers, personal nutritionists, best food available, best apparel available all help athletes. These things cost money.
    th3evo wrote: »
    I guess you could say that with money you have access to better equipment/food/trainers etc. but those aren't really direct and instant results like they are in games so it's a bit of a strech.
    Just like with banned substances - none of those things guarantee success.
    It's incomparably easier to become the best (or one of the best) in a P2W game or a game with P2W elements than it is to become a pro athlete.
  • th3evo wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    State of the art gym equipment, personal trainers, personal nutritionists, best food available, best apparel available all help athletes. These things cost money.
    th3evo wrote: »
    I guess you could say that with money you have access to better equipment/food/trainers etc. but those aren't really direct and instant results like they are in games so it's a bit of a strech.
    Just like with banned substances - none of those things guarantee success.
    It's incomparably easier to become the best (or one of the best) in a P2W game or a game with P2W elements than it is to become a pro athlete.

    I assure you, the whales are not guaranteed to be "the best" at anything besides deployed GP. Watch Ahnald's stream; he makes mistakes aplenty, and he seems to be one of the more skilled whales (based on his win rate). I'd wager a lot of f2p D2 folks could beat a lot of D1 whales in a GAC matchup.

    No analogy is perfect. But there certainly aren't a lot of inner city kids making it in the PGA.
  • Deathbringer59
    287 posts Member
    edited July 19
    The difference, people win money and prizes in real life sports/tournaments, real world money and what not. You don't win nothing in this game besides self satisfaction and entertainment. You could try to make a claim that crystals is what you win and they are worth X amount but it's not that way.

    Trying to compare this game to a real life sport is silly imo. Unless they add this game to Esports(HA) or CG/EA hosts their own tournament and rules, it doesn't matter. Let the whales continue feeding the game. Why do you think it's been running for this long?
  • Kyno
    32060 posts Moderator
    th3evo wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    State of the art gym equipment, personal trainers, personal nutritionists, best food available, best apparel available all help athletes. These things cost money.
    th3evo wrote: »
    I guess you could say that with money you have access to better equipment/food/trainers etc. but those aren't really direct and instant results like they are in games so it's a bit of a strech.
    Just like with banned substances - none of those things guarantee success.
    It's incomparably easier to become the best (or one of the best) in a P2W game or a game with P2W elements than it is to become a pro athlete.

    Buying things in this game or many games doesnt guarantee success.

    This is not a P2W game, its P2P, there is nothing here that cannot be gained for free. (P2W games have things you can only get with $$)
  • th3evo
    358 posts Member
    th3evo wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    State of the art gym equipment, personal trainers, personal nutritionists, best food available, best apparel available all help athletes. These things cost money.
    th3evo wrote: »
    I guess you could say that with money you have access to better equipment/food/trainers etc. but those aren't really direct and instant results like they are in games so it's a bit of a strech.
    Just like with banned substances - none of those things guarantee success.
    It's incomparably easier to become the best (or one of the best) in a P2W game or a game with P2W elements than it is to become a pro athlete.

    I assure you, the whales are not guaranteed to be "the best" at anything besides deployed GP. Watch Ahnald's stream; he makes mistakes aplenty, and he seems to be one of the more skilled whales (based on his win rate). I'd wager a lot of f2p D2 folks could beat a lot of D1 whales in a GAC matchup.

    No analogy is perfect. But there certainly aren't a lot of inner city kids making it in the PGA.

    A lot of the mistakes he does is because he's streaming and is trying to entertain his audience. Though sometimes RNG (like yesterday's ships) can be a pain of course.

    I guess I have to repeat myself yet again - I understand that this game is not the worst offender.
  • th3evo
    358 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    th3evo wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    State of the art gym equipment, personal trainers, personal nutritionists, best food available, best apparel available all help athletes. These things cost money.
    th3evo wrote: »
    I guess you could say that with money you have access to better equipment/food/trainers etc. but those aren't really direct and instant results like they are in games so it's a bit of a strech.
    Just like with banned substances - none of those things guarantee success.
    It's incomparably easier to become the best (or one of the best) in a P2W game or a game with P2W elements than it is to become a pro athlete.

    Buying things in this game or many games doesnt guarantee success.

    This is not a P2W game, its P2P, there is nothing here that cannot be gained for free. (P2W games have things you can only get with $$)

    Yes, you probably won't be successful with Tuskens in the arena even after spending 1 billion dollars. However if you spend enough money on a game and you understand the game you have much higher chance of being successful than in sports. Even if you have the best trainer, best food, best everything there is still (probably) a higher chance of you being bad than becoming a pro.

    Battlefront 2 also wasn't P2W. All you had to do was spend whole days in the game - What was it again? 40 hours of playtime to unlock one hero or something?
    Don't know about you but "technically not P2W" doesn't make everything ok for me.

    Once again - I know SWGoH isn't the worst offender.
  • th3evo wrote: »
    Steroids / performance enhancing drugs seem to have done the trick in the past.

    Those things don't guarantee success. You still need talent even if you use illegal substances.
    No matter how many I take I won't become the next Wayne Gretzky, Lionel Messi, Tony Hawk etc.
    However if I (or you or anyone else) spend enough money I can become one of the top players in this game. It's even easier in other games.
    I was explaining why the other guy posted his laugh post.

    You said they can’t buy something to improve their physique faster.

    He laughed.

    You wanted it explained, so I did. Now you’re talking about guaranteed success?

    Anyway, I’ll bow out. Your stance on people who pay for things in this game that allows thousands to play it for free is not one I will ever agree with.

    And I also disagree that simply spending enough money guarantees you to be one of the top players in the game. Largest GP, maybe, but that is not what makes a top player in pretty much anyone’s book.
  • Kyno
    32060 posts Moderator
    th3evo wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    th3evo wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    State of the art gym equipment, personal trainers, personal nutritionists, best food available, best apparel available all help athletes. These things cost money.
    th3evo wrote: »
    I guess you could say that with money you have access to better equipment/food/trainers etc. but those aren't really direct and instant results like they are in games so it's a bit of a strech.
    Just like with banned substances - none of those things guarantee success.
    It's incomparably easier to become the best (or one of the best) in a P2W game or a game with P2W elements than it is to become a pro athlete.

    Buying things in this game or many games doesnt guarantee success.

    This is not a P2W game, its P2P, there is nothing here that cannot be gained for free. (P2W games have things you can only get with $$)

    Yes, you probably won't be successful with Tuskens in the arena even after spending 1 billion dollars. However if you spend enough money on a game and you understand the game you have much higher chance of being successful than in sports. Even if you have the best trainer, best food, best everything there is still (probably) a higher chance of you being bad than becoming a pro.

    Battlefront 2 also wasn't P2W. All you had to do was spend whole days in the game - What was it again? 40 hours of playtime to unlock one hero or something?
    Don't know about you but "technically not P2W" doesn't make everything ok for me.

    Once again - I know SWGoH isn't the worst offender.

    But it's not technically not P2W, this game is literally not.

    P2W - paying to get something you cannot get by other means. Paying for exclusivity.

    P2P - paying to get some advantage, usually time (i.e.- getting things faster) Nothing is exclusive.

    Being that it's an analogy, and therefore assuming the same natural ability in either sport or gaming, I would disagree, but we can move on.
  • RTS
    528 posts Member
    th3evo wrote: »
    Steroids / performance enhancing drugs seem to have done the trick in the past.

    Those things don't guarantee success. You still need talent even if you use illegal substances.
    No matter how many I take I won't become the next Wayne Gretzky, Lionel Messi, Tony Hawk etc.
    However if I (or you or anyone else) spend enough money I can become one of the top players in this game. It's even easier in other games.

    Having the top rosters != being a top player, that's not how this works.
  • th3evo
    358 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    th3evo wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    th3evo wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    State of the art gym equipment, personal trainers, personal nutritionists, best food available, best apparel available all help athletes. These things cost money.
    th3evo wrote: »
    I guess you could say that with money you have access to better equipment/food/trainers etc. but those aren't really direct and instant results like they are in games so it's a bit of a strech.
    Just like with banned substances - none of those things guarantee success.
    It's incomparably easier to become the best (or one of the best) in a P2W game or a game with P2W elements than it is to become a pro athlete.

    Buying things in this game or many games doesnt guarantee success.

    This is not a P2W game, its P2P, there is nothing here that cannot be gained for free. (P2W games have things you can only get with $$)

    Yes, you probably won't be successful with Tuskens in the arena even after spending 1 billion dollars. However if you spend enough money on a game and you understand the game you have much higher chance of being successful than in sports. Even if you have the best trainer, best food, best everything there is still (probably) a higher chance of you being bad than becoming a pro.

    Battlefront 2 also wasn't P2W. All you had to do was spend whole days in the game - What was it again? 40 hours of playtime to unlock one hero or something?
    Don't know about you but "technically not P2W" doesn't make everything ok for me.

    Once again - I know SWGoH isn't the worst offender.

    But it's not technically not P2W, this game is literally not.

    P2W - paying to get something you cannot get by other means. Paying for exclusivity.

    P2P - paying to get some advantage, usually time (i.e.- getting things faster) Nothing is exclusive.

    Being that it's an analogy, and therefore assuming the same natural ability in either sport or gaming, I would disagree, but we can move on.

    Not everything P2P is acceptable which is why I used Battlefront 2 as an example. You technically couldn't call it P2W back then either because it was possible to get everything F2P (after purchasing the game ofc). All it took was a massive time investment. I don't think that was ok because even P2P should have some limits.

    Do you remember half a year ago when they released BAM and then required him for GC feats? That's an example of "technically not P2W" in my opinion.

    Analogies often don't work.
  • th3evo
    358 posts Member
    RTS wrote: »
    th3evo wrote: »
    Steroids / performance enhancing drugs seem to have done the trick in the past.

    Those things don't guarantee success. You still need talent even if you use illegal substances.
    No matter how many I take I won't become the next Wayne Gretzky, Lionel Messi, Tony Hawk etc.
    However if I (or you or anyone else) spend enough money I can become one of the top players in this game. It's even easier in other games.

    Having the top rosters != being a top player, that's not how this works.

    There is no clear way to say who is the best player in this game - it depends on what you think is more important (GAC, GP, squad arena wins etc.).
    This game is primarily a collecting game so I would say that the the best player is the one with the biggest roster. At least that's my opinion.
  • TVF
    31104 posts Member
    th3evo wrote: »
    RTS wrote: »
    th3evo wrote: »
    Steroids / performance enhancing drugs seem to have done the trick in the past.

    Those things don't guarantee success. You still need talent even if you use illegal substances.
    No matter how many I take I won't become the next Wayne Gretzky, Lionel Messi, Tony Hawk etc.
    However if I (or you or anyone else) spend enough money I can become one of the top players in this game. It's even easier in other games.

    Having the top rosters != being a top player, that's not how this works.

    There is no clear way to say who is the best player in this game - it depends on what you think is more important (GAC, GP, squad arena wins etc.).
    This game is primarily a collecting game so I would say that the the best player is the one with the biggest roster. At least that's my opinion.

    If you think spending money = better player, I guess so.
    The CGDF is no more. Now we hate CG because of conquest. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • th3evo
    358 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    th3evo wrote: »
    RTS wrote: »
    th3evo wrote: »
    Steroids / performance enhancing drugs seem to have done the trick in the past.

    Those things don't guarantee success. You still need talent even if you use illegal substances.
    No matter how many I take I won't become the next Wayne Gretzky, Lionel Messi, Tony Hawk etc.
    However if I (or you or anyone else) spend enough money I can become one of the top players in this game. It's even easier in other games.

    Having the top rosters != being a top player, that's not how this works.

    There is no clear way to say who is the best player in this game - it depends on what you think is more important (GAC, GP, squad arena wins etc.).
    This game is primarily a collecting game so I would say that the the best player is the one with the biggest roster. At least that's my opinion.

    If you think spending money = better player, I guess so.

    No, I don't think that spending money = better player. I've been saying the opposite this whole time.
    But the size of your collection is probably the most important thing in a collecting game, right?
  • th3evo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    th3evo wrote: »
    RTS wrote: »
    th3evo wrote: »
    Steroids / performance enhancing drugs seem to have done the trick in the past.

    Those things don't guarantee success. You still need talent even if you use illegal substances.
    No matter how many I take I won't become the next Wayne Gretzky, Lionel Messi, Tony Hawk etc.
    However if I (or you or anyone else) spend enough money I can become one of the top players in this game. It's even easier in other games.

    Having the top rosters != being a top player, that's not how this works.

    There is no clear way to say who is the best player in this game - it depends on what you think is more important (GAC, GP, squad arena wins etc.).
    This game is primarily a collecting game so I would say that the the best player is the one with the biggest roster. At least that's my opinion.

    If you think spending money = better player, I guess so.

    No, I don't think that spending money = better player. I've been saying the opposite this whole time.
    But the size of your collection is probably the most important thing in a collecting game, right?

    You yourself said there is no clear way.

    I absolutely don’t think size of collection is a yardstick. It’s the only thing that requires no skill at all to maximise.

    Performance in the endgame PvP / PvE content like GAC, TW, TB would be my personal criteria, and that absolutely does not require money.
  • Kyno
    32060 posts Moderator
    th3evo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    th3evo wrote: »
    RTS wrote: »
    th3evo wrote: »
    Steroids / performance enhancing drugs seem to have done the trick in the past.

    Those things don't guarantee success. You still need talent even if you use illegal substances.
    No matter how many I take I won't become the next Wayne Gretzky, Lionel Messi, Tony Hawk etc.
    However if I (or you or anyone else) spend enough money I can become one of the top players in this game. It's even easier in other games.

    Having the top rosters != being a top player, that's not how this works.

    There is no clear way to say who is the best player in this game - it depends on what you think is more important (GAC, GP, squad arena wins etc.).
    This game is primarily a collecting game so I would say that the the best player is the one with the biggest roster. At least that's my opinion.

    If you think spending money = better player, I guess so.

    No, I don't think that spending money = better player. I've been saying the opposite this whole time.
    But the size of your collection is probably the most important thing in a collecting game, right?

    The only game mode that a bigger collection can even come close to helping over combat is TBs, but still there, combats are bringing in a lot of points. Everywhere else, collection "doesnt matter" it's how you use it. Even GCs, we have seen players beat out events without the new toon using strategy when their collection is "smaller".

    So no, not the most important, but maybe let's you be a little less knowledgeable at times.
  • th3evo
    358 posts Member
    th3evo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    th3evo wrote: »
    RTS wrote: »
    th3evo wrote: »
    Steroids / performance enhancing drugs seem to have done the trick in the past.

    Those things don't guarantee success. You still need talent even if you use illegal substances.
    No matter how many I take I won't become the next Wayne Gretzky, Lionel Messi, Tony Hawk etc.
    However if I (or you or anyone else) spend enough money I can become one of the top players in this game. It's even easier in other games.

    Having the top rosters != being a top player, that's not how this works.

    There is no clear way to say who is the best player in this game - it depends on what you think is more important (GAC, GP, squad arena wins etc.).
    This game is primarily a collecting game so I would say that the the best player is the one with the biggest roster. At least that's my opinion.

    If you think spending money = better player, I guess so.

    No, I don't think that spending money = better player. I've been saying the opposite this whole time.
    But the size of your collection is probably the most important thing in a collecting game, right?

    You yourself said there is no clear way.

    I absolutely don’t think size of collection is a yardstick. It’s the only thing that requires no skill at all to maximise.

    Performance in the endgame PvP / PvE content like GAC, TW, TB would be my personal criteria, and that absolutely does not require money.

    Overall performance is great and I agree that it would be the best metric but there is no way to actually evaluate that.
    If we couldn't spend money then the size of your collection would be a direct result of your overall performance. Unfortunately that's not the case.
  • th3evo
    358 posts Member
    edited July 19
    Kyno wrote: »
    th3evo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    th3evo wrote: »
    RTS wrote: »
    th3evo wrote: »
    Steroids / performance enhancing drugs seem to have done the trick in the past.

    Those things don't guarantee success. You still need talent even if you use illegal substances.
    No matter how many I take I won't become the next Wayne Gretzky, Lionel Messi, Tony Hawk etc.
    However if I (or you or anyone else) spend enough money I can become one of the top players in this game. It's even easier in other games.

    Having the top rosters != being a top player, that's not how this works.

    There is no clear way to say who is the best player in this game - it depends on what you think is more important (GAC, GP, squad arena wins etc.).
    This game is primarily a collecting game so I would say that the the best player is the one with the biggest roster. At least that's my opinion.

    If you think spending money = better player, I guess so.

    No, I don't think that spending money = better player. I've been saying the opposite this whole time.
    But the size of your collection is probably the most important thing in a collecting game, right?

    The only game mode that a bigger collection can even come close to helping over combat is TBs, but still there, combats are bringing in a lot of points. Everywhere else, collection "doesnt matter" it's how you use it. Even GCs, we have seen players beat out events without the new toon using strategy when their collection is "smaller".

    So no, not the most important, but maybe let's you be a little less knowledgeable at times.

    Like I said in my response to DarjeloSalas - imagine if you couldn't buy your way to the top. Your roster would represent your abilities. The best player would have the biggest roster, right?
    I agree that in the current state of the game it doesn't matter.
  • Kyno
    32060 posts Moderator
    th3evo wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    th3evo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    th3evo wrote: »
    RTS wrote: »
    th3evo wrote: »
    Steroids / performance enhancing drugs seem to have done the trick in the past.

    Those things don't guarantee success. You still need talent even if you use illegal substances.
    No matter how many I take I won't become the next Wayne Gretzky, Lionel Messi, Tony Hawk etc.
    However if I (or you or anyone else) spend enough money I can become one of the top players in this game. It's even easier in other games.

    Having the top rosters != being a top player, that's not how this works.

    There is no clear way to say who is the best player in this game - it depends on what you think is more important (GAC, GP, squad arena wins etc.).
    This game is primarily a collecting game so I would say that the the best player is the one with the biggest roster. At least that's my opinion.

    If you think spending money = better player, I guess so.

    No, I don't think that spending money = better player. I've been saying the opposite this whole time.
    But the size of your collection is probably the most important thing in a collecting game, right?

    The only game mode that a bigger collection can even come close to helping over combat is TBs, but still there, combats are bringing in a lot of points. Everywhere else, collection "doesnt matter" it's how you use it. Even GCs, we have seen players beat out events without the new toon using strategy when their collection is "smaller".

    So no, not the most important, but maybe let's you be a little less knowledgeable at times.

    Like I said in my response to DarjeloSalas - imagine if you couldn't buy your way to the top. Your roster would represent your abilities. The best player would have the biggest roster, right?
    I agree that in the current state of the game it doesn't matter.

    Nope.

    Your roster would represent your choices and who has been playing the longest. In this game money = time, take away any ability to inject $$ for faster time, and you only have natural time gains, and the choices about where you focus said time.
  • RTS
    528 posts Member
    th3evo wrote: »
    RTS wrote: »
    th3evo wrote: »
    Steroids / performance enhancing drugs seem to have done the trick in the past.

    Those things don't guarantee success. You still need talent even if you use illegal substances.
    No matter how many I take I won't become the next Wayne Gretzky, Lionel Messi, Tony Hawk etc.
    However if I (or you or anyone else) spend enough money I can become one of the top players in this game. It's even easier in other games.

    Having the top rosters != being a top player, that's not how this works.

    There is no clear way to say who is the best player in this game - it depends on what you think is more important (GAC, GP, squad arena wins etc.).
    This game is primarily a collecting game so I would say that the the best player is the one with the biggest roster. At least that's my opinion.

    You're welcome to have your opinions, wrong as they maybe.
  • th3evo
    358 posts Member
    RTS wrote: »
    th3evo wrote: »
    RTS wrote: »
    th3evo wrote: »
    Steroids / performance enhancing drugs seem to have done the trick in the past.

    Those things don't guarantee success. You still need talent even if you use illegal substances.
    No matter how many I take I won't become the next Wayne Gretzky, Lionel Messi, Tony Hawk etc.
    However if I (or you or anyone else) spend enough money I can become one of the top players in this game. It's even easier in other games.

    Having the top rosters != being a top player, that's not how this works.

    There is no clear way to say who is the best player in this game - it depends on what you think is more important (GAC, GP, squad arena wins etc.).
    This game is primarily a collecting game so I would say that the the best player is the one with the biggest roster. At least that's my opinion.

    You're welcome to have your opinions, wrong as they maybe.

    What's the right opinion?
  • So I’ve completely lost what your point/argument was in the discussion of what is a fair analogy. I think it was something along the lines that selling power is somehow unfair and overly hurts the ftp community. I guess that kinda is true if you solely focus on arena. It is definitely false if you bring in tw/Tb.

    For arena, there is no question that having more gls makes your climbs easier but no team is unbeatable and any smart/good/talented ftp player can achieve 1st every single night. There is literally a thread dedicated to those that have chosen not to spend and many have more gls and gp than many moderate to high spenders. It’s just not difficult to get 1st in arena every night without spending.

    As for Tb, whales literally only help ftp as their rosters lead to more completed waves, more deployed gp, and more stars.

    Tw is likely a wash as whales who win help their ftp guild mates that offsets the ftp members of the losing guild.

    Raids- yes at one point whales hurt their ftp guild mates in every raid, but this is offset by the rewards gained by beating the raid sooner because of these very same whales.

    Gac- roster development is far more important than money unless you’re literally a kraken but no obscene kraken is going to get matched up with ftp account.

    I can’t think of a legitimate argument that whales somehow overall impact ftp players negatively. If you aren’t happy with your progress you make in the game it likely has 99 percent to do with your choices not whales. You control whether or not you’re in a guild where you can get top 10 in hstr and top 5 in cpit. You control how much effort you put into game. There is nothing unachievable in this game if you choose to not spend money. Stop trying to point fingers at those supporting the game which allows you to decide not to spend as some form of cheaters.
  • th3evo
    358 posts Member
    Drathuk916 wrote: »
    So I’ve completely lost what your point/argument was in the discussion of what is a fair analogy. I think it was something along the lines that selling power is somehow unfair and overly hurts the ftp community. I guess that kinda is true if you solely focus on arena. It is definitely false if you bring in tw/Tb.

    For arena, there is no question that having more gls makes your climbs easier but no team is unbeatable and any smart/good/talented ftp player can achieve 1st every single night. There is literally a thread dedicated to those that have chosen not to spend and many have more gls and gp than many moderate to high spenders. It’s just not difficult to get 1st in arena every night without spending.

    As for Tb, whales literally only help ftp as their rosters lead to more completed waves, more deployed gp, and more stars.

    Tw is likely a wash as whales who win help their ftp guild mates that offsets the ftp members of the losing guild.

    Raids- yes at one point whales hurt their ftp guild mates in every raid, but this is offset by the rewards gained by beating the raid sooner because of these very same whales.

    Gac- roster development is far more important than money unless you’re literally a kraken but no obscene kraken is going to get matched up with ftp account.

    I can’t think of a legitimate argument that whales somehow overall impact ftp players negatively. If you aren’t happy with your progress you make in the game it likely has 99 percent to do with your choices not whales. You control whether or not you’re in a guild where you can get top 10 in hstr and top 5 in cpit. You control how much effort you put into game. There is nothing unachievable in this game if you choose to not spend money. Stop trying to point fingers at those supporting the game which allows you to decide not to spend as some form of cheaters.

    I didn't bring up the sports analogy. I just said that paying for a leg up is acceptable in gaming while everywhere else it's called bribing or cheating and Kyno asked me for a list of sports where people are not throwing money at team/organization to get an advantage. Then the discussion turned to whether athletes pay for advantages or not. I don't think it's comparable but some people argue otherwise.
    I think that buying power is pathetic - in general (not just in this game) and F2P community has nothing to do with it. This thread is about congratulating people for reaching 10 million GP. Congratulations, you have spent thousands of dollars on a mobile game. What sort of achievement is that?
    A very good point was brought up by Ragnarok_COTF - whales control the economy. As long as they pay up the high prices won't change. I sure more people would be willing to spend money if the prices were more reasonable. I don't think 300-400$ is a reasonable price for one 7* marquee character.
    I don't understand this notion that I should be thankful to the whales for allowing me to play F2P. They aren't buying cosmetics that don't affect the game. They are buying gameplay advantages for themselves. They aren't doing this out of the kindness of their hearts. This isn't some kind of charity.

    I don't care about microtransactions that don't affect gameplay. Skins, emotes etc. - you can sell those all you want. I start paying attention when you introduce time-savers and exclusive gear that affect gameplay. I was shocked when Battlefront 2 was released. I was baffled when XP boosters appeared in singleplayer games and the fact that a lot of players seem to be ok with it makes my jaw drop.
  • th3evo wrote: »
    Drathuk916 wrote: »
    So I’ve completely lost what your point/argument was in the discussion of what is a fair analogy. I think it was something along the lines that selling power is somehow unfair and overly hurts the ftp community. I guess that kinda is true if you solely focus on arena. It is definitely false if you bring in tw/Tb.

    For arena, there is no question that having more gls makes your climbs easier but no team is unbeatable and any smart/good/talented ftp player can achieve 1st every single night. There is literally a thread dedicated to those that have chosen not to spend and many have more gls and gp than many moderate to high spenders. It’s just not difficult to get 1st in arena every night without spending.

    As for Tb, whales literally only help ftp as their rosters lead to more completed waves, more deployed gp, and more stars.

    Tw is likely a wash as whales who win help their ftp guild mates that offsets the ftp members of the losing guild.

    Raids- yes at one point whales hurt their ftp guild mates in every raid, but this is offset by the rewards gained by beating the raid sooner because of these very same whales.

    Gac- roster development is far more important than money unless you’re literally a kraken but no obscene kraken is going to get matched up with ftp account.

    I can’t think of a legitimate argument that whales somehow overall impact ftp players negatively. If you aren’t happy with your progress you make in the game it likely has 99 percent to do with your choices not whales. You control whether or not you’re in a guild where you can get top 10 in hstr and top 5 in cpit. You control how much effort you put into game. There is nothing unachievable in this game if you choose to not spend money. Stop trying to point fingers at those supporting the game which allows you to decide not to spend as some form of cheaters.

    I didn't bring up the sports analogy. I just said that paying for a leg up is acceptable in gaming while everywhere else it's called bribing or cheating and Kyno asked me for a list of sports where people are not throwing money at team/organization to get an advantage. Then the discussion turned to whether athletes pay for advantages or not. I don't think it's comparable but some people argue otherwise.
    I think that buying power is pathetic - in general (not just in this game) and F2P community has nothing to do with it. This thread is about congratulating people for reaching 10 million GP. Congratulations, you have spent thousands of dollars on a mobile game. What sort of achievement is that?
    A very good point was brought up by Ragnarok_COTF - whales control the economy. As long as they pay up the high prices won't change. I sure more people would be willing to spend money if the prices were more reasonable. I don't think 300-400$ is a reasonable price for one 7* marquee character.
    I don't understand this notion that I should be thankful to the whales for allowing me to play F2P. They aren't buying cosmetics that don't affect the game. They are buying gameplay advantages for themselves. They aren't doing this out of the kindness of their hearts. This isn't some kind of charity.

    I don't care about microtransactions that don't affect gameplay. Skins, emotes etc. - you can sell those all you want. I start paying attention when you introduce time-savers and exclusive gear that affect gameplay. I was shocked when Battlefront 2 was released. I was baffled when XP boosters appeared in singleplayer games and the fact that a lot of players seem to be ok with it makes my jaw drop.

    Well okay I wanted to ignore the sports analogy but I guess I’ll wade in. I think applying it to individual athletes is indeed incorrect. However, I took it, and I’m probably wrong, as applying it to owners whether it’s the Yankees, Real Madrid or whatever wealthy team and sport you choose the big market teams buy championships by having inflated payrolls. I don’t think this diminishes their championships. As winning is hard though easier with a higher quality roster.

    I agree that the pricing is incredibly high in this game and I don’t understand those that are 5 6 figures deep into the game. I just disagree that it negatively impacts me or anyone in a significant way. Set your budget, play within in, and enjoy the game. No whale can ruin the game just because they’re a whale. As with most mobile games, you can’t “win” swgoh so the real question isn’t how much others are spending and is that fair but whether you are enjoying the game. If you are great, if you aren’t I sincerely doubt whales are the issue.
  • th3evo
    358 posts Member
    Drathuk916 wrote: »
    th3evo wrote: »
    Drathuk916 wrote: »
    So I’ve completely lost what your point/argument was in the discussion of what is a fair analogy. I think it was something along the lines that selling power is somehow unfair and overly hurts the ftp community. I guess that kinda is true if you solely focus on arena. It is definitely false if you bring in tw/Tb.

    For arena, there is no question that having more gls makes your climbs easier but no team is unbeatable and any smart/good/talented ftp player can achieve 1st every single night. There is literally a thread dedicated to those that have chosen not to spend and many have more gls and gp than many moderate to high spenders. It’s just not difficult to get 1st in arena every night without spending.

    As for Tb, whales literally only help ftp as their rosters lead to more completed waves, more deployed gp, and more stars.

    Tw is likely a wash as whales who win help their ftp guild mates that offsets the ftp members of the losing guild.

    Raids- yes at one point whales hurt their ftp guild mates in every raid, but this is offset by the rewards gained by beating the raid sooner because of these very same whales.

    Gac- roster development is far more important than money unless you’re literally a kraken but no obscene kraken is going to get matched up with ftp account.

    I can’t think of a legitimate argument that whales somehow overall impact ftp players negatively. If you aren’t happy with your progress you make in the game it likely has 99 percent to do with your choices not whales. You control whether or not you’re in a guild where you can get top 10 in hstr and top 5 in cpit. You control how much effort you put into game. There is nothing unachievable in this game if you choose to not spend money. Stop trying to point fingers at those supporting the game which allows you to decide not to spend as some form of cheaters.

    I didn't bring up the sports analogy. I just said that paying for a leg up is acceptable in gaming while everywhere else it's called bribing or cheating and Kyno asked me for a list of sports where people are not throwing money at team/organization to get an advantage. Then the discussion turned to whether athletes pay for advantages or not. I don't think it's comparable but some people argue otherwise.
    I think that buying power is pathetic - in general (not just in this game) and F2P community has nothing to do with it. This thread is about congratulating people for reaching 10 million GP. Congratulations, you have spent thousands of dollars on a mobile game. What sort of achievement is that?
    A very good point was brought up by Ragnarok_COTF - whales control the economy. As long as they pay up the high prices won't change. I sure more people would be willing to spend money if the prices were more reasonable. I don't think 300-400$ is a reasonable price for one 7* marquee character.
    I don't understand this notion that I should be thankful to the whales for allowing me to play F2P. They aren't buying cosmetics that don't affect the game. They are buying gameplay advantages for themselves. They aren't doing this out of the kindness of their hearts. This isn't some kind of charity.

    I don't care about microtransactions that don't affect gameplay. Skins, emotes etc. - you can sell those all you want. I start paying attention when you introduce time-savers and exclusive gear that affect gameplay. I was shocked when Battlefront 2 was released. I was baffled when XP boosters appeared in singleplayer games and the fact that a lot of players seem to be ok with it makes my jaw drop.

    Well okay I wanted to ignore the sports analogy but I guess I’ll wade in. I think applying it to individual athletes is indeed incorrect. However, I took it, and I’m probably wrong, as applying it to owners whether it’s the Yankees, Real Madrid or whatever wealthy team and sport you choose the big market teams buy championships by having inflated payrolls. I don’t think this diminishes their championships. As winning is hard though easier with a higher quality roster.

    I agree that the pricing is incredibly high in this game and I don’t understand those that are 5 6 figures deep into the game. I just disagree that it negatively impacts me or anyone in a significant way. Set your budget, play within in, and enjoy the game. No whale can ruin the game just because they’re a whale. As with most mobile games, you can’t “win” swgoh so the real question isn’t how much others are spending and is that fair but whether you are enjoying the game. If you are great, if you aren’t I sincerely doubt whales are the issue.

    It impacts the whole game industry. Why do you think those XP boosters appeared in the singleplayer games? Because devs saw that players are willing to pay for them. Things you take for granted today will be monetized next year. Games are being developed with flaws in mind so they can sell you the solution. Games are being built around their monetization nowadays - enjoyment comes second.
    I'm not ok with the path that game development is following. I don't understand why so many of you seem to be fine with it or even actively support it.
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