[MEGA] Road Ahead: July 2021

Replies

  • Dagobond wrote: »
    -I really like the changes to make galactic legends more like mini raid bosses. It is ridiculous that there are years old characters which take 1/20th of the effort to build whom can negate galactic legends. That really cheapens the hard work that players have put into the galactic legends in their rosters.


    Curious...do you think a team of non-GL's should be able to beat a GL team?
  • Artumas
    320 posts Member
    I beat a JML with a standard JKR team with no JKL or GAS on my roster.
    Absolutely no character on a standard JKR team is getting touched.

    They. Are. Not. Removing. Your. Ability. To. Beat. GLs. Without. GLs.

    They're just hitting 2 specific teams, and lightly altering a couple commonly used characters that arguably were doing more to "ruin theory crafting" due to being the 100% obvious go tos for every single team than these changes are.

    I don't have any of the traditional counters.
    I can regularly beat every opposing GL other than Rey.
    I only ever set my own GL on defense.
    I don't use DR for offense because I have abnormally good speed mods so he's an insane threat on defense.

    ADAPT.
    It's the name of the game.
    You all adapted when GLs were first released.
    This is literally no different.

    Seriously, some of these changes are literally looking to actually buff a couple of the characters for what they were ACTUALLY used for in GL counters.

    If your strategy and ability to adapt to changes is so bad that you see this as "I'm going to automatically lose against anyone that has a single GL more than me", you honestly don't deserve to win.
    Because that's showing you already have no clue how half the GL counter teams that exist work, and have no ability to think of your own, as there's counters to just about every GL that almost no one uses.
    CATnobi is still likely going to be the bigger issue than any of these changes are. The team people still haven't found a non-GL counter for.

    According to these forums, SEE can be countered by "half the roster".
    SLKR counters likely aren't changing literally at all. Might take an extra turn at "worst".
    JML counters are going to be pretty similar to SLKR for the most part. Not really changing much. They just might end up a bit more volatile if the JML actually has a decent team.
    Non-CAT JMK is literally countered by Padme or standard GAS. like....

    So you have Rey, who people already mostly just use SEE to counter because she's "the best defense GL" already.
    And CATnobi, who has no known counters other than other GLs, and those aren't even fully consistent.

    Unless you already are using extremely obscure counters that almost no one uses, this really isn't going to have the wide-reaching affects you all seem to think it will.

    If these changes were actually to certain specific utility abilities, I might agree.
    But aside from GAS, they really aren't, and most counters that relied on GAS were using him for AI manip or damage more than an RNG cooldown increase.
    JKL's still going to blind, do ridiculous damage and get tons of turns.

    And I'm sorry, but this isn't the change that's making it "kind of pointless to farm for anything that's not a GL req".
    That happened a long time ago. People just forget that people that have been playing this game for 3+ years can still be absolutely terrible at it.
    I think I've lost to people that didn't have GLs in GAC like twice in the past 9 months, both times because my GAS counter didn't work (I've since significantly improved my CLS team)
    Even when they get past my Rey, I still win on efficiency.

    And with GL Vader, nearly every non-revan team that's worth anything seems to be a GL req now, so.... Not sure what the point of saying "it's not worth working on any non-GL-req team" is, because literally it isn't, as the non-GL-req teams are almost entirely trash, or are "GL-auxiliary" characters, like JKR for JML or Malak/DR for SEE.
    Like, wow, it's not worth it to work on Gam Guard. Who would've thought. The "best" teams that aren't are BHs and NS, one of which is required for zeta income, the other for credit income, Chewie and Zeta income if you don't have Imp troopers. Oh, and crystals, because galactic bounties provide some. And both are needed for shard store income.
  • Dagobond wrote: »
    Here is a high-level summary of my reaction to these changes as a player who has been here since almost the start:

    -I like the fact that the bounty hunter faction is finally getting a capitol ship (it is a shame it wasn't Hondo though)! Now if we could get additional ships for all factions that would really help flesh out the current fleet options since there aren't enough ships now to go around for each capitol ship.

    -Could Slave I get a rework? That ship has almost no synergy with the existing breach mechanic and it's stats are so old that it is practically useless even with a r8 pilot.

    -Relic 9 at the end of August seems way too soon in my opinion. Even many high GP roster players have perhaps a handful of relic 8 characters currently so this seems way too early to put another hurdle for competitiveness in my opinion.

    -I really like the changes to make galactic legends more like mini raid bosses. It is ridiculous that there are years old characters which take 1/20th of the effort to build whom can negate galactic legends. That really cheapens the hard work that players have put into the galactic legends in their rosters.

    Other changes I think I will need to see more details regarding before I can make an informed opinion. Overall though I do like general direction that things seem to be moving based on trying to rebalance some seriously broken game mechanics.

    How is it not negating over a year of hard work to just remove the entire point of compositions that lower-end players have been building to even have a chance of competing in arena or GAC. Nothing is wrong with having counters for the best teams. They are still the best teams and an extreme cornerstone of the game’s progression whether or not they can be countered. Wanting teams to be unbeatable is just gross and disgusting. It isn’t any fun for any level of strategic play.
  • Stryde
    152 posts Member
    Most of my descriptive feedback aligns with what has already been said, and I've read every comment except for what is coming through as I type this (and it takes me an extremely long time to type). I truly appreciate the objective responses outlining the pros and cons (looking at you, S), and even some of the informative angry responses too (looking at you, many other people).

    'I know great counters that you don't' is not helpful, but that player is hit or miss for game play support in my opinion, and indicative of the active-on-the-forum players who got here early, figured out the game economy and how to manage resources to stay ahead of the curve (spending money or not), and will continue to struggle to be able to understand how other players have learned on their own journey without significant investment in those perspectives. Of course, they've already invested elsewhere. Grains of salt and all, including my own resentful notes.

    To add to the true feedback, I ending up enjoying the video format. I typically do not appreciate listening or watching a SWGoH themed video because I do not retain oral information well (the amazing YouTuber who uses text on top of video is someone who had helped me grow in my game play, and with so much less fluff and clickbait than others; thank you always, even though I am not mentioning you by name). It humanized the negative changes (in my opinion), the changes going backwards, to hear the rationale, even if some of the rationale does not align with my personal reality of the shifts.

    My constructive feedback is to hone the video timing to <10 minutes and to never include information in one format that is not in the other. Never ever. To also think through an equity lens about multilingual players whose first language is not English; closed captioning being avaliable (you have it!) is a huge accessibility feature to meet multiple needs. Thank you.

    I'm sorry that no one so far has addressed how amazing Crumb's facial hair is. Stellar, in my opinion. "Seeing" him and Doja will help me temper my feedback, to reduce my frustration and distrust from an official post a long, long time ago that linked to false information presented as authentic, to focus on construction not destruction...at least for a little bit. I'll work on it.

    Along with these changes that roll back functionality on key characters, now is the time to move forward on many long-standing requests. Spend the time to sort through the spaghetti code to create fleet management, to add ship names below reinforcements by further refining the User Interface (the complaints seem to have diminished!) as to reflect the quality of this successful game. I'm sorry that my JMLS team looks significantly affected, but I can manage with tradeoffs as I struggle to recover due to my ignorance of the 1%'s strategies.

    As some moderators would argue, I should trust you have the data to make huge game changes and predict their impact. Mistakes are a part of living. I believe they should be owned and learned from.

    I believe the gear economy and overall Galactic Legend farm is functioning exactly as CG developers or stakeholders want it to, and their data collection has increased monetization in the areas they desire for a return on their investment. I'm nervous about Relic 9, but my skills have not allowed me to comfortably reach Relic 8 along the best paths. That's on me, but time will tell how I'll strive to grow now.

    Finally, as you've found the time to adjust and grow Conquest, with these positive modifications like data disk currency, I hope you've also thought how to add details not mentioned in the video or written post; counters for Conquest or Challenge feat management completion is the kind of change that would take bitterness out of my mouth at realizing GAS, Vader, and JKLS may not help me to the final gear crate any more.

    Thanks for taking the time to inform us of these changes. Please be well!
  • Night2
    23 posts Member
    They said in video, maul will have mandalorian tag. Mandalorian in game are half dark and half light. Are we going to have finally neutral character? Or he will have synergy only with dark side mandalorians or both? there are not so many options to make that dark side team great
  • Padawan
    18 posts Member
    First of all, I have read almost 11 pages fully charged of comments of dissatisfaction and disapprobation; and I can’t do less that agree with all of them.

    That been said, I just wanted to add two comments. One is about another comment that a very smart user pointed out: if ships rely on the pilots relic level, eventually, the non-pilot ones are gonna get way behind. CG needs to take that into consideration ASAP.

    The other thing to mention is conected with CGs intentions on making all GLs balanced with each other: Kylo and Rey were introduced some time ago now, and between that batch, the next (SEE and JML) and now the current one, they released tons of new characters. If they insist on having this premise of keeping all GLs at the same level of power, this means they already putted a limit to the chars power progression. That’s kind of a close road in the long term. We’ll have 2024 GLs that will need to be as powerful as the old ones. No wonder why they needed to nerf some of the non-GL counters (that and the greedy side, of course).

    This is making a big division in the game: GLs mode and non-GLs mode. While buffing non-GLs but cutting at the same time their counter mechanics, they are increasing the level of one side of the game, but freezing and isolating the other. Its hard to see this as an integrated game from now on.
  • My constructive feedback is to hone the video timing to <10 minutes and to never include information in one format that is not in the other. Never ever.

    Um, it depends on what you consider "information", I guess?

    When they talk about why they want to make a particular change or what they hoped Toon X would accomplish ("we're releasing this in order to ease the LS Geo crunch" or "We're excited by the Mandalorian faction & hope this character will add new leadership advantages that will excel in PvE situations like Conquest and GCs"), that's a kind of information, but it's not the kind of information that needs to be in the text.

    Whys and hopes can be left out. The rest of the information is almost certainly necessary. They did a reasonably good job with that this time, but a couple things got left out, and they can do better.
  • Artumas wrote: »
    I beat a JML with a standard JKR team with no JKL or GAS on my roster.
    Absolutely no character on a standard JKR team is getting touched.

    They. Are. Not. Removing. Your. Ability. To. Beat. GLs. Without. GLs.

    They're just hitting 2 specific teams, and lightly altering a couple commonly used characters that arguably were doing more to "ruin theory crafting" due to being the 100% obvious go tos for every single team than these changes are.

    I don't have any of the traditional counters.
    I can regularly beat every opposing GL other than Rey.
    I only ever set my own GL on defense.
    I don't use DR for offense because I have abnormally good speed mods so he's an insane threat on defense.

    ADAPT.
    It's the name of the game.
    You all adapted when GLs were first released.
    This is literally no different.

    Seriously, some of these changes are literally looking to actually buff a couple of the characters for what they were ACTUALLY used for in GL counters.

    If your strategy and ability to adapt to changes is so bad that you see this as "I'm going to automatically lose against anyone that has a single GL more than me", you honestly don't deserve to win.
    Because that's showing you already have no clue how half the GL counter teams that exist work, and have no ability to think of your own, as there's counters to just about every GL that almost no one uses.
    CATnobi is still likely going to be the bigger issue than any of these changes are. The team people still haven't found a non-GL counter for.

    According to these forums, SEE can be countered by "half the roster".
    SLKR counters likely aren't changing literally at all. Might take an extra turn at "worst".
    JML counters are going to be pretty similar to SLKR for the most part. Not really changing much. They just might end up a bit more volatile if the JML actually has a decent team.
    Non-CAT JMK is literally countered by Padme or standard GAS. like....

    So you have Rey, who people already mostly just use SEE to counter because she's "the best defense GL" already.
    And CATnobi, who has no known counters other than other GLs, and those aren't even fully consistent.

    Unless you already are using extremely obscure counters that almost no one uses, this really isn't going to have the wide-reaching affects you all seem to think it will.

    If these changes were actually to certain specific utility abilities, I might agree.
    But aside from GAS, they really aren't, and most counters that relied on GAS were using him for AI manip or damage more than an RNG cooldown increase.
    JKL's still going to blind, do ridiculous damage and get tons of turns.

    And I'm sorry, but this isn't the change that's making it "kind of pointless to farm for anything that's not a GL req".
    That happened a long time ago. People just forget that people that have been playing this game for 3+ years can still be absolutely terrible at it.
    I think I've lost to people that didn't have GLs in GAC like twice in the past 9 months, both times because my GAS counter didn't work (I've since significantly improved my CLS team)
    Even when they get past my Rey, I still win on efficiency.

    And with GL Vader, nearly every non-revan team that's worth anything seems to be a GL req now, so.... Not sure what the point of saying "it's not worth working on any non-GL-req team" is, because literally it isn't, as the non-GL-req teams are almost entirely trash, or are "GL-auxiliary" characters, like JKR for JML or Malak/DR for SEE.
    Like, wow, it's not worth it to work on Gam Guard. Who would've thought. The "best" teams that aren't are BHs and NS, one of which is required for zeta income, the other for credit income, Chewie and Zeta income if you don't have Imp troopers. Oh, and crystals, because galactic bounties provide some. And both are needed for shard store income.

    This. I agree on almost every front. Non-GL counters aren't completely erased. I, however, feel that most of the anger that people are feeling due to these nerfs is the real investment time being completely undermined. It is a lot of effort for Dolphins and F2P players to even get a single team and to see that effort be completely invalidated is understandably frustrating. Had these counters been dealt with prior to this, or had there been some form of communication that these teams would be hindered in the future these changes would be less impactful. While I disagree with CG's balance perspective on GLs, the real harm being done is their lack of care for players' effort, time, and resources.
  • Stryde
    152 posts Member
    My constructive feedback is to hone the video timing to <10 minutes and to never include information in one format that is not in the other. Never ever.

    Um, it depends on what you consider "information", I guess?

    When they talk about why they want to make a particular change or what they hoped Toon X would accomplish ("we're releasing this in order to ease the LS Geo crunch" or "We're excited by the Mandalorian faction & hope this character will add new leadership advantages that will excel in PvE situations like Conquest and GCs"), that's a kind of information, but it's not the kind of information that needs to be in the text.

    Whys and hopes can be left out. The rest of the information is almost certainly necessary. They did a reasonably good job with that this time, but a couple things got left out, and they can do better.

    A good push against my declarative statement. I would edit my original statement to clarify pertinent game information, such as kit changes, and I agree that the video outlining the whys and hopes is a benefit of that format that may not need to be in the written format. "May not" 😉.
  • AlexanderG
    1410 posts Member
    Can I just say that the comments on "greed" strike me as funny.

    I don't support the current direction of the game as announced in the RA any more than the average commenter here, but CG is a corporation. They exist to make money. Programmers, whether they love Star Wars or not, have to eat and get health care, and maybe even rent an apartment in a high cost of living city.

    CG isn't any more greedy than the people who make Palmolive or Crest or bluetooth speakers or books.

    This is how capitalism works. If you want a game made by people who don't want to earn as much money as possible for the longest time period possible, then start your own nonprofit & see how far you get.

    To be clear, I'm not in favor of greed, but there's literally nothing CG has ever done that couldn't be done by the average middle manager anywhere in the USA.

    This is capitalism. It's how capitalism works. If you hat capitalism, okay, fine. There are other economic systems of organization out there which you could try. But if you work at a for profit corporation in a capitalist economy, or even if you just support them by spending your $$s on books and bluetooth speakers and toothpaste, you're making yourself look just a little silly screaming about greed here.

    There are things to criticize about this RA. One of those things is not how CG is abnormally greedy. They're a capitalist company in a capitalist system doing what capitalist companies do. You won't get anywhere by trying to make greedy into some uniquely antiCG insult.

    Make more effective arguments and maybe we can change things. Stick with yelling, "Greedy!" and nothing will.

    That's all fair enough - the greed argument won't get very far (not that I think any argument will, but still). CG could have announced the new capital ship, Maul and Lord Vader - heck even r9. That would have given the top tier players plenty to do. What grates is the nerf on important characters that aren't GLs but can under very specific circumstances provide a counter. Nerfing the likes of Thrawn feels like overkill and it's hard to see the validity in arguing it's for the long term health of the game - quite the opposite I'd suggest.
  • Ezrareally wrote: »
    EA only produce games in areas that they can create a monopoly in (i,e. NFL). Remember that Star Wars game that got cancelled? Yeah they scratched when they realize other studios are making star wars games. Fallen Order 2? That will never happen? New raids and content in swgoh? It will at best be like the crappy remake of SW battlefront 2 with no new content coming out from this point forward. CG is doing this because this will be the last major update to this game before they close their doors. Yes the server will still be on but, no more new toons content and etc.

    I doubt this. Loads of Star Wars content is basically free money for them. They don't have to make any new content, just release all the newest Disney characters for hundreds of dollars each and ride the waves of gold.
  • Doonan wrote: »
    I was having fun climbing up to level 85 to start my Grand Arena grind, but I don't have a few thousand dollars laying around. It was fun while it lasted!!!

    Nevermind, a few Thousand isn’t even close to what you need. Really, no trolling. Just don’t think about GAC. It is a fundamentally flawed game mode anyways. Try to have fun with your guild mates in the event that you can play on as a team.
  • Can someone please explain to me why Rey needs a reduction in whirlwind damage? She doesn't appear in really any top 5 with any consistency and can't beat SLKR, JML under Bastila lead, JMK with CAT, or SEE with Wat. The only things she can beat are mirrors and SEE if there is no Wat and even without it's no guarantee. Of all the GL's, she just doesn't perform to the level of other GL's and she gets a reduction?

    To me this equates to a second huge nerf to her which no other GL has gotten. The first was the Kylo rework when they first came out and now this. It just doesn't make sense.

    Couple that with the buff to SEE now. Why? Because troopers can beat him? SEE can beat every single team in the game, something Rey can't do yet he needs a buff?

    I am not looking to complain but would like and understanding of the rationale here. It seems like the investment of time for Rey is just losing more and more value while other GL's gain over time.
  • YetiYeti
    426 posts Member
    CG should refund all our 6e to 6a mod slicing materials that they had us waste on counters they're invalidating. Sure, the mods are useful elsewhere, but some are niche and counter specific.
  • Rey didn’t really get nerfed though, her potential damage is actually higher at R8 and soon R9, and the AOE damage she does during whirlwind is increased at all Relic levels.
    And she can definitely beat all existing GLs, including the current JMK/CAT meta, even without a CAT of her own
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Not everyone is about the amount of work/coordination to guarantee 90% success rate of KAM shards. But fair enough.

    And you really believe that the folks who don’t want to spend 15 minutes a month on a guided battle are the ones who will suddenly go for that huge investment? In my experience these people are the least likely to do that.

    If BB are a fool proof way to get KAM shards they are interesting for people who want to use a $hort cut. And for many others BB simply won’t play a role with regards to KAM shards.
    If you're a loner with no good strategy and your success rate is (generously) 30%, then BB + Omega turns out to have a success rate of 100%, someone who doesn't want to stream or learn

    For people who really want to beat the mission it’s more like 60%-70. I know it because we started streaming just 2 months ago.
  • YetiYeti
    426 posts Member

    For people who really want to beat the mission it’s more like 60%-70. I know it because we started streaming just 2 months ago.

    What 501st? My current and older guild run an 85%+ winrate on KAM with classic Shaak 501st.
  • What lineup have you seen that can beat an SLKR or a JMK with CAT? I've done damage with her but not a full win. Had to get lucky with my JML to beat that team.
  • ReyVsMando
    38 posts Member
    edited July 2021
    logged in one time today. man gearing up this weak playing around stuff doesnt motivate me... doesnt feel like "value" anymore. thats a problem. because the game starts in the roster where the fun should begin... why i should do that for month over month now? that doesnt feel any valuable anymore. u just have GL in sight the rest is just playing constantly around. thats so stupid.

    how u can do that ? LOL
  • Pretty sad these are the changes being implemented. Playing for only about 1.5 years and it was encouraging to know even as F2P you could compete and develop squads to beat GL’s but this has really crippled motivation. If they don’t listen to the communities response and adjust accordingly I hope enough people leave this game and hurt their greedy pocket books..
  • YetiYeti wrote: »

    For people who really want to beat the mission it’s more like 60%-70. I know it because we started streaming just 2 months ago.

    What 501st? My current and older guild run an 85%+ winrate on KAM with classic Shaak 501st.

    I was referring to the „loners“. People who just try on their own with the general strategy and modding guide. People who have 30% win rate do not really try.
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