Does nerfed GL counters mean updated GAC matchup?

As if the nerfed non-GL counters happen then you will automatically lose a GAC if your opponent has one more GL

Replies

  • Rath_Tarr
    4382 posts Member
    Nope.

    If you are.facing an opponent with more GLs then either you did a poor job of managing your roster or your opponent's roster is too lean. The former is your own fault and the latter is a winnable match.
  • AntaresKOTD
    18 posts Member
    edited July 24
    I don't think you understood the question.

    And do you sincerely believe everyone has lean rosters and/or mange their rosters perfectly? Perhaps that mattered now when you still could beat GLs with non-GLs

    If there are no more non-GL counters, then an opponent with more GLs will win by default if place them all on defense.

    I'm a very lean 7 mill account with 4gls, and often come up with 7.5 mill opponents with 5gls who I can beat with non-GL counters.

    Please tell me a solution if non-GL counters are nerfed and I'm matched up with someone with more GLs?

    Therefore my original question, which you still ignored. Please don't patronise me, it seems you likely aren't in the top div and see that you can have 6.5-7.5 mill accounts with a spread of 3-5 GLs matched up.
  • Rath_Tarr
    4382 posts Member
    Nope.

    I understand the question just fine.

    Do you understand that GA(C) matchmaking is specifically set up not to account for combat power? Do you have any comprehension of why that.might be? Try giving it some thought.

    If you are frequently facing opponents with an extra GL then your roster is not "very lean". I can count on the fingers of one hand the opponents I have faced who had an additional GL and my roster is not "very lean". It is however pretty well balanced.

    My roster is just shy of 5.9m GP and I am about to start unlocking my third GL.

    I recently passed 900k lifetime score, finished the last GAC in the top 50 and have never failed to finish Kyber so if you want to try and patronize me then by all means knock yourself out. :D
  • Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Nope.

    I understand the question just fine.

    Do you understand that GA(C) matchmaking is specifically set up not to account for combat power? Do you have any comprehension of why that.might be? Try giving it some thought.

    If you are frequently facing opponents with an extra GL then your roster is not "very lean". I can count on the fingers of one hand the opponents I have faced who had an additional GL and my roster is not "very lean". It is however pretty well balanced.

    My roster is just shy of 5.9m GP and I am about to start unlocking my third GL.

    I recently passed 900k lifetime score, finished the last GAC in the top 50 and have never failed to finish Kyber so if you want to try and patronize me then by all means knock yourself out. :D

    Apparently it is called matchmaking - the outcome should be unclear before you start. Some roster management what you talk about only works for low gp accounts and results in specifically optimised acc for gac. However this is more of a grey zone and has nothing to do with a good matchmaking system in the very end. Because those people contribute mostly no KAM shards and have not many waves in TB.

    AntaresKOTD has a valuable point and the balance patch should have impact to the matchmaking algorithm. Top 3 Kyber are mostly "optimised" or downsized accounts and not the strongest accounts in the game - go figure.
  • Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Nope.

    If you are.facing an opponent with more GLs then either you did a poor job of managing your roster or your opponent's roster is too lean. The former is your own fault and the latter is a winnable match.

    I have an account that is a little over 4.5 mil GP. I don't have a GL yet, but I'm working towards my first. I'm also FTP, which is why it's taking me longer. I have the same concerns as the OP. I'm already facing against opponents with GLs in their accounts, usually just one GL, and my odds of defeating their GL is about 50/50 when I use non-GL counters. Once this update goes through, my chances will more than likely go from 50/50 to 0%. It'll still be a couple more months at least before I get my first GL. What do you suggest I and others in a similar situation do in the meantime? Boycott GAC? Cry a lot?
  • SerylT2
    146 posts Member
    LordGrahck wrote: »
    It'll still be a couple more months at least before I get my first GL. What do you suggest I and others in a similar situation do in the meantime? Boycott GAC? Cry a lot?

    No, the Krakens just want you to shut up, bend over and take it. Only they are allowed to cry to the devs apparently because they are CG's Sugar Daddies. The Vader rework angered a great many of them, in case people forgot. This Road Ahead is a year of Kraken lobbying in the works because CG actually had the audacity to make the game enjoyable for FTP and light spenders again.

  • Granolo
    99 posts Member
    Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Nope.

    I understand the question just fine.

    Do you understand that GA(C) matchmaking is specifically set up not to account for combat power? Do you have any comprehension of why that.might be? Try giving it some thought.

    If you are frequently facing opponents with an extra GL then your roster is not "very lean". I can count on the fingers of one hand the opponents I have faced who had an additional GL and my roster is not "very lean". It is however pretty well balanced.

    My roster is just shy of 5.9m GP and I am about to start unlocking my third GL.

    I recently passed 900k lifetime score, finished the last GAC in the top 50 and have never failed to finish Kyber so if you want to try and patronize me then by all means knock yourself out. :D

    The point is, many rosters are developped around those non-GL counters. Now those counters and the gear used on them will not be as good as they were before, so all the resources spent in those rosters are now suboptimal, which they weren't before.
  • Granolo wrote: »
    Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Nope.

    I understand the question just fine.

    Do you understand that GA(C) matchmaking is specifically set up not to account for combat power? Do you have any comprehension of why that.might be? Try giving it some thought.

    If you are frequently facing opponents with an extra GL then your roster is not "very lean". I can count on the fingers of one hand the opponents I have faced who had an additional GL and my roster is not "very lean". It is however pretty well balanced.

    My roster is just shy of 5.9m GP and I am about to start unlocking my third GL.

    I recently passed 900k lifetime score, finished the last GAC in the top 50 and have never failed to finish Kyber so if you want to try and patronize me then by all means knock yourself out. :D

    The point is, many rosters are developped around those non-GL counters. Now those counters and the gear used on them will not be as good as they were before, so all the resources spent in those rosters are now suboptimal, which they weren't before.

    That's part of my point as well. It's like when G13/Relics came out. At the time, my roster didn't have very many G12 toons, but I did have quite a few G11 toons with zetas and superior mods. I was able to hold my own against G12 toons. I didn't really need that many G12 toons. At the time, a team of G11 toons with the right assortment of zetas and really good mods could take out a G12 team. Also, getting the toons from G11 to G12 was a chore for me back then. When G13/Relics came out, one of my biggest worries was that my array of G11 toons were going to be useless, and that even if I got them to G12, they would still be useless because you would need a relic toon to take on a relic toon. Thank goodness that wasn't how things turned out. Now that we have GLs, I've been working towards getting them, but also working on non-GL counters in the meantime. Why? Because it's faster and more cost effective to do so as a FTP player. This Road Ahead just made all that progress towards building up non-GL counters pretty much useless, and I'll go from having a fighting chance in GAC against GL accounts to always losing.
  • Platex
    4 posts Member
    edited July 25
    SerylT2 wrote: »
    No, the Krakens just want you to shut up, bend over and take it. Only they are allowed to cry to the devs apparently because they are CG's Sugar Daddies. The Vader rework angered a great many of them, in case people forgot. This Road Ahead is a year of Kraken lobbying in the works because CG actually had the audacity to make the game enjoyable for FTP and light spenders again.

    I can potentially get behind the Defence changes, but stuff like the buff to Rey's Sudden Whirlwind damage goes too far. What is it, other than "if it's not a Galactic Legend, it's dead" ?

    They're making the older content in the game irrelevant to encourage/reward spending. If the goal is simultaneously to encourage people to collect Galactic Legends faster, I really struggle to see how that is compatible with it being for the "health of the game", surely?

    I think the devs want the future to be based solely around GLs, and the game can't actually structurally sustain that without the community or gameplay experience collapsing. Thus, with all respect - and in good faith - I think they don't really know what they are doing. Do they understand their own F2P player experience?
  • Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Nope.

    I understand the question just fine.

    Do you understand that GA(C) matchmaking is specifically set up not to account for combat power? Do you have any comprehension of why that.might be? Try giving it some thought.

    If you are frequently facing opponents with an extra GL then your roster is not "very lean". I can count on the fingers of one hand the opponents I have faced who had an additional GL and my roster is not "very lean". It is however pretty well balanced.

    My roster is just shy of 5.9m GP and I am about to start unlocking my third GL.

    I recently passed 900k lifetime score, finished the last GAC in the top 50 and have never failed to finish Kyber so if you want to try and patronize me then by all means knock yourself out. :D

    Congrats on your achievements, but obfuscating the argument or trying to devalue my own by putting blame squarely on my squad management adds nothing to the conversation.

    So, no, you aren't in the top division by GP and therefore don't come across accounts with a a lot of variability. I've been in the top div by size from the beginning and have multiple times come across account with 1 or 2 GLs more.

    But as you say, I've now got to bend over and take it. Or please do give us some helpful advice at how those could be managed with no non-GL counters?

    Let's see how you do when you reach 6.75 mill and come across a 5 GL account when you have three or four.

    Please feel free to check my own account and let me know if something is wrong with it before making comments
  • Granolo
    99 posts Member
    Platex wrote: »
    I can potentially get behind the Defence changes, but stuff like the buff to Rey's Sudden Whirlwind damage goes too far. What is it, other than "if it's not a Galactic Legend, it's dead" ?

    Rey's SW it's only a slight buff for r8 and r9, and a slight nerf at lower relics. It's not a big deal really.

    The problem is, that the Defense thing it's clearly just an excuse, otherwise why would they nerf Darth Vader's saber throw? That's a plain nerf to GL counters, nothing else. And that's why it's even more insulting.

  • Antario
    443 posts Member
    edited July 26
    Since CG is going to make retrofit changes to existing toons, they shall at least allow players to completely reconsider their done investment.

    I would suggest CG to completely roll-back player investment made to every toon changed. Not just return the investment past R5 but complete rollback of the affected toons. Then people can reinvest and get a GL quickly to stay competitive. Anything else would be unfair.
  • You (players who think no gl=game over) have no gl and you opponent has one.

    You’re saying ‘match loss’ because if your opponent puts his gl on D you won’t clear.

    So what you mean is: while your opponent has relic’d 14 not so good characters (on average, some good ones some awful ones) to unlock his,gl while your relic’d 14 characters of your choice, he will still be able to pass your front row if you put your top 3 teams there ? It probably means you made questionable strategic choices. That’s perfectly fine if your prefer the collection aspect or want to farm the characters you like, no judgement there. But it’s fair that you will have a hard time against people who put serious thoughts in their roster to be competitive in gac.
  • Starslayer
    1301 posts Member
    edited July 26
    For people in higher divisions, I’ll post this somewhere else, it’s relevant here.
    Bottom line: the actual popular strategy at high level (putting GLs on D and winning with counter GLs) probably won’t live long if as you fear, counters GLs are a thing from the past (which I don’t believe, theorycrafters are awesome).

    Let’s say you’re in d3(I’m guessing you’re not, but I have more easily access to d3/d4 numbers) where at least 2 GLs are not unexpected. They are 3 teams on each front row.
    If you use the strategy you’re proposing, you won’t have any GLs left to attack. So if your opponent put both his GLs on D, you won’t clear any of his front rows. You will still win if you have more GLs, because you will win 4 non-GLs fight when he will win less. So your total score will be : 1010(defenses)+240(4 wins)+1400(winner), so 2650 pts. Multiply by 12 games, 31800 pts if you stay undefeated. You still need 8200 more to reach kyber, feats won’t give you that much. So if this heavy defense strategy is the new norm, you won’t reach kyber. No one will, in this ‘at least 2 GLs’ situation. Which means it’s a very dangerous strategy, because it relies on the hope that your opponent will keep his GLs to attack. And if it’s not an efficient strategy, then maybe not all players will do that and it won’t be as simple as you think.
    Run this numbers in d1/d2, you’ll probably end up with the same results.

    Totally agree that if counters are a thing from the past, less GLs=harder time, and a case could be made to refund nerfed characters, because they’ll hurt mm without putting so much on the table. But more GLs =auto win is over the top. It’s already an advantage today and it will still be one. Maybe a bigger one, that’s true, but let’s not get carried away.
  • The first guy who replied is right. The match making is perfectly fine as is, It isn't supposed to give poorer rosters a handicap by matching them against other poor rosters. Its supposed to pit people against others with similiar overall GP and its specifically meant to challenege how well you've focused your roster. Obviously if you have passed 3 or 4 Mil GP and have 0 GLs you will lose often, and thats the intended outcome, because it the event is intended to reward a focused competitive roster.

    If you don't make your roster competitive and dont want to, why would you complain about a gamemode meant for competitive players? Just dont join when they pop up or just join and auto 8th place for free Mod splicing.
  • Louisiana_Boots
    2 posts Member
    edited July 26
    F2P Vs P2p has nothing to do with GAC, you can play F2P and have a similiarly focused roster (relic Darth Revan sith Empire team before 1 mil gp, GL at 2 mil GP, etc) It is simply about how well you have focused your roster and its a competitive game mode in which the only factor that matchmakes is GP, meaning time played (the one part that F2P lose on) isnt accounted for. The area P2P has an advantages is Squad and Fleet Arena because it pits you based on when you began playing. Thus not leveling the playing field based on GP.

    Example of P2p only saves you time, not anything else. If player 1 is p2p and takes 1 week to get to 1 mil gp due to hd bundle, but player 2 takes 6 months to get to 1 mil gp, because hes F2P, player 2 actually has a huge advantage because he could have super focused his roster into sith empire with near 0 bloat and several relic toons, while player 1 has 60 G8 toons and no relics and all 60 of them dont even get a turn vs player 2 SE team.
  • Antario
    443 posts Member
    The first guy who replied is right. The match making is perfectly fine as is, It isn't supposed to give poorer rosters a handicap by matching them against other poor rosters. Its supposed to pit people against others with similiar overall GP and its specifically meant to challenege how well you've focused your roster. Obviously if you have passed 3 or 4 Mil GP and have 0 GLs you will lose often, and thats the intended outcome, because it the event is intended to reward a focused competitive roster.

    That is true...but only to the extend that you just play GAC for reaching Kyber.

    However, if you play GAC for Top 10 division ranking, a focused roster will not always do the trick. I would rather say the event is intended to reward players with a balanced competitive roster.

    I have four GLs at 6m GP. I would say I fall into the category of a quite focused roster. But I have yet to make it to Top10 in my division. Not because I'm not a good player (objectively speaking), but because I get matched up mostly with players who have 3-4GLs as well. That alone makes my matches more difficult (e.g. less chance for full clear) compared to someone, who might have same 6m GP but with maybe only one GL. Full clear is much easier in such cases.
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