Doja and I spent most of the weekend gathering sentiment and feedback regarding the Road Ahead. Below are some of the most recurring comments we noticed, and hopefully the following responses will help clarify some of the questions and concerns you have.
We also appreciate the vast majority of you separating the video format from the news contained within the message. Hopefully we can deliver more videos in the future and work toward expanding the ways we interact with the SWGoH community.
Galactic Legends and non-GL counters/interactions:
The community has always been excellent at puzzle-solving, theory-crafting, and finding ways to maximize the effectiveness of their rosters. The changes are meant to not only allow for more design space for powerful characters below Galactic Legends, but also to prevent situations in which a non-GL could one-shot or otherwise severely and regularly reduce the effectiveness of a Galactic Legend.
As we mentioned in the video, changing characters post launch is a last resort. There needs to be a balance between how consistent a counter is and how powerful the squad they are facing is in comparison. This is not just for squads with GLs, but for any squad that is able to counter another. For a healthy balance to the meta, counters should require a similar amount of resources to the team they can beat, whether that’s mods, gear/relic level, and/or specific units.
GLs require a large amount of time and resources to unlock and their place in the meta should reflect the difficulty involved in unlocking them. They are late-game units and it makes sense they would be commensurate in power and effectiveness to their status as late-game roster acquisitions that take a lot of effort to acquire.
Difficulty of Events Post-Character Changes:
We are reviewing existing Journey Guide events for any unintentional side effects. Our goal is to keep these events around the same level of difficulty as before.
Three of the characters had specific updates to their kits to maintain the character’s utility as a high-end unit in other areas of the game, such as PvE events, etc. General Skywalker, for example, had things added to his kit because we wanted to offset the changes and make sure he remained highly effective - especially when leading a full 501st squad - in other areas of the game.
Dark Trooper:
We noticed some confusion surrounding Dark Trooper and wanted to clarify that DT is not getting any direct changes to its kit. Rather, the changes to Sith Eternal Emperor reduce Dark Trooper’s effectiveness in this matchup and that is why we specifically decided to return resources for Dark Trooper.
Relic 9 Timing:
Relic 9 is further out and will be coming to the game after the character changes are implemented, not before. We’ll share more details on R9 as it gets closer. Having said that, the character changes needed to happen before R9, otherwise the underlying issues surrounding defense being ignored would only be exasperated.
Razor Crest Shards and Conquest 7:
More details on obtaining Razor Crest shards will be coming soon. As far as Conquest 7 (and the concern of no August Conquest), as mentioned in the video, Conquest 7 will experience a slight delay. Three Conquests over the next three-ish months is still the plan. This should result in little to no interference with the timeline of playing through the next three Conquests and reaping the resulting rewards of your efforts there.
Executor Requirements:
We saw a lot of discussion surrounding the requirements for Executor and it’s place in the fleet meta. It is our intention that the Executor will be commensurate in power to the difficulty involved in acquiring it.
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I hope this response sheds some light on our perspective. We will continue to escalate your feedback to the team and be here to answer as many questions as possible.
Crumb thanks for the response, but man…idk….
GL vs non GL
You’re confirming here that any non GL team shouldn’t be able to counter GL’s so now you’re setting the precedent that if the community does find that, you’re gonna nerf it which means we need to invest cautiously. That’s not ok. It’s not like G11 Vader can delete an R8 Rey. It requires equal amounts of investment and gear, mods and time to make these counters work, which aren’t even guaranteed. So I’m sorry you’re actively devaluing our progression in an arbitrary manner.
Relic 9 timing
You’re still missing the point. You’re totally ignoring that the outrage over R9 is due to your teams inability and refusal to ease day one gear crunches 5 years into the game. It wouldn’t be a big issue if you trivialized getting to G12 5 years in the game. There is no reason that if you guys implement a change that makes it so that my whole roster (as a day one player mind you) can be G12 in a few if I focused only on that. I’m not saying R7 should be a week long trek, but come on; the outrage over R9 is the insane gear investment it takes to just take ONE toon there. Let alone the 15+ you require to relic for GL’s or the 6 you now require for Executor.
Executor Requirements:
Again, tone deaf. If you wanted to make even G13 the hard req then ok. But R8? My goodness even Uber Krakens only have around 15-20 toons at R8 at this point after almost 9 months. You expect people to just get 3 or 4 to that point no issues? FIX THE GEAR CRUNCH!!!!
Idk crumb, I get you’re only the messenger but you and Doja need to tell whoever is making these decisions that they’re flat out wrong. If your community, F2P and krakens alike and everything in between are resoundingly outraged over this, perhaps the best course isn’t to dig your heels into the sand. That’s just me talking because I know my $200 a month will not be spent here when you guys are setting a precedent to change whatever for any reason
@CG_SBCrumb_MINI thanks for taking the time. Thanks for the video format and every explication you just gave.
But I must disagree... You guys are making a huge mistake with the GLs vs non GLs changes.
The fun of the game is to balance mods on non meta characters to have a chance a using some useful counters. I was a almost f2p the first 3 years, and for the last 2 years I have poured ridiculous amount of money into your game. The GLs are more accessible to paying customers and I don’t think they are happy. Competition is fun and when you make it impossible to compete, even for just a bit of the game, it feels you are not listening and not understanding.
You say changing kits are last resort but you are operating numerous changes on various key characters for only 6 GLs ? Come on...
Managing the game and all its aspects must be really complex I understand but listen to us !! We want GLs to be vulnerable ! Make them humans again
You can keep all other changes, just retract yourself on the GLs bit
Galactic Legends and non-GL counters/interactions:
The community has always been excellent at puzzle-solving, theory-crafting, and finding ways to maximize the effectiveness of their rosters. The changes are meant to not only allow for more design space for powerful characters below Galactic Legends, but also to prevent situations in which a non-GL could one-shot or otherwise severely and regularly reduce the effectiveness of a Galactic Legend.
Dear Crumb and Doja, Please write this on every mirror in the bathrooms at CG:
FIX THE GEAR ECONOMY SO G12 IS NOT SUCH A HEADACHE!!!!
I don't feel like myself and the community are asking for much when we say this. Relics are hard enough to get on their own but just g8 to g9 is still a choking point and in a 5 year old game it simply SHOULD NOT BE. My just over 4 mil alt and my just under 7 mil main should NOT be struggling for the same gear pieces. My main is in a larger gulid, runs all the high end content, does well at all of it (red box every time in conquest, frequent top 5-10 in Cpit and HSith) and yet STILL struggles with stun guns and golden eyeballs and stun cuffs.
And while we're continuing to endure this stranglehold the devs have on the gear in the game, you're talking about r9. I had to blow loads of gear just to get impulse detectors for GMY and GK to hit r8 for JMK's reqs. They're my 2nd and 3rd r8s (I only have 3). I have hardly any gear for the remaining 3 toons I need to finish. And you're now talking r9? Do the devs know they sound tone deaf on this gear issue? And that announcing r9 feels like they really don't get the weight of the gear crunch on us players?
Because that's exactly how they come across and what makes so many players angry.
I don’t understand how someone could equal f2p to no GL. I mean I am a f2p and have all 5 GL. All you need is to join a good guild and invest a significant amount of time each day (and to have some brains ofc).
As to the changes, crazy requirements of new ship and LV, and introduction of R9, pretty much everything is in line with CG’s practice. At least they gave us a month’s notice! Isn’t that great? At the end of the day, people leave because they don’t like the game, not because of the changes; people stay because they like this game, or like to play with the friends; whales still gonna pay because, well, they are whales. In a year or 2 nobody will remember this RA.
Sound good to have 5 GL with f2p, but tbh its hard to believe.
I guess you play since day 1. But still how did you manage to get e.g. that much energy to unlock JMK?
I started my f2p account at end of january, like 10 of my shard members already have GL . Someone has it since months..
I now have 1 relic 5 FO character and 5 G12. Rest are G8-9.
I dont see that i will unlock SLKR in months..
So even if i have million times, i cannot compensate/accelerate the energy refresh.. so yes you need time to log in and collect energy and do the farming, but not that significat amount.
I think i have some knowledge about the game as i read a lot but there is still a gap what you cannot overtake by just spending more time on game.
I dont mind that there will be R9, but i dont like that i strugle a lot to get caracters from G8 to G9 and so on.
Lets face it G8-G9-G10 is far from r9.
If they would separate players in GAC and TW based on GL numbers then im fine with these changes.
But it dont this wil happen. Like when my old guild with 50M GP (0 GL) faced with another 50m guild with 3 GL. That 3 GL came from 1 player, but sill it was hopeless.
As an initial Rey user, it did annoy me that she was so easily beatable by a very accessible counter, given the amount of resources put into getting her.
I have never liked that non-GL characters can CONSISTENTLY beat GL-led teams. That being said, there NEEDS be counters that are non-GL or it will completely screw up GAC and TW.
My hope, which I actually stated in the forums on reddit about a month ago, is for there to be multiple counters that are non-GL, but that are INCONSISTENT or have a decent amount of RNG involved. Hopefully CG see's it the same way. If your significantly punching up in terms of power, then it should be risky.
If they would separate players in GAC and TW based on GL numbers then im fine with these changes.
This was my concern.
It still takes time to get to 5 million GP, no matter how many GLs you have. Most of the time I'm (division 5) facing people with 2 GLs. So I can't be creative after this. They just lay both down on defense, and I'm screwed. I'm at least 2 months I'd say from my second GL. So for the next two months I have no chance. That's terrible. GAC is my favorite part of the game because you have to be creative managing your resources.
And at no point in Arena have I seen a complete non-GL counter vs. a GL in my shard. Usually people use the characters you are nerfing to overcome a natural disadvantage, I.E. SEE vs SLKR or SLKR vs JML.
So all I have is SLKR right now, so I have to be creative in arena to climb if there's a wall of JMLs. Which is already frustrating.
I know balancing a game with 120+ characters is difficult. But please find another way to even the scales without taking away the options of those of us who are working diligently to get a GL or get more.
Ok, I don't know if this has been brought before. But players want CG to change the Gac matchmaking to be based around GL, does that mean you want them to change division placement too? Because I've seen player with 5m GP with no GL, and I'm confused on how those kinds of player matchmaking will be
My biggest issue with the non GL nerf is that if you (rhetorical, I get you're just the messenger) didn't want non GLs beating GLs, why wait a year to nerf them?
At this point we all assumed the counters were safe and had invested resources into them. Imp troopers is a great example. They countered See from the very beginning. And even after a mega thread over 100 pages the answer was that it was fine. If it was fine then, why isn't it fine now?
The time to have fixed it was when the GL first came out and with enough warning of, "don't invest in this counter because it's going to be nerfed". Instead, you said it wasn't going to be nerfed and people invested in that counter.
And refunding the gear to r5 is a joke. If the team no longer has the significant viability it did, the gear and Zetas should be fully refunded. To g1 not r5 or r7.
For r9. It's too soon. The gear crunch needs eased. Please no more we're looking into it. It needs eased now. It should be eased before r9. Especially with a GL now being a requirement to be competitive in arena. Currently, a new account will take over a year to get there ftp. Previously we had the option of farming a counter to at least try and get more crystals while we reliced the 15 characters needed for a GL (about half of them useless). But now new players that don't drop thousands of dollars have to farm a GL while being locked out of the top of arena even longer.
@CG_Doja_Fett_MINI hi. I just watched the podcast with crumb. Appreciate your team taking time to be with the community.
I had a question that wasn't answered with how this will effect GAC/TW/Conquest?
GAC/TW: How will these GL changes translate into GAC/TW? In the current matchmaking system, its all too possible to consistently get matched up with someone who has more GLs than you or your guild. With these changes, a slight disadvantage that can be navigated with GL counters now all of the sudden becomes a huge disadvantage; should be an instant loss in this new system.
Conquest: Many of the feats required some of these anti-GL abilities to make the max reward box obtainable or possibly for those without a GL they were able to obtain max rewards; how will these changes affect this game mode? For example, Rey w/ Thrawn Fracture or Wat Weapon Tech on Vader.
I'm sure the answer to both of these are well... It's complicated.. But basically you're screwed. I hope I'm wrong. I understand justifying the reward of obtaining a gl in something like arena.. but when my 7.1 m gp account with 4 GLs is matched with a 7.4m gp account with 5 GLs, the odds shouldn't be insurmountable. This isn't poker. Before these modes could be calculated strategically. This is being replaced with what I valued. To implement such a change should have been coupled with a change in Algorithm where it evaluates number of GL s first when matchmaking if you're effectively breaking the meta in 2. This is an oversight and will most likely lead to my and many more s exit to the game unfortunately. I will wait and see, but won't give it much time if what was fun to me turns into frustration. I already feel like the past year has been partially wasted shoring my roster to cover counters, etc. And no the 4 refunds will not change that.
Can the developers please make a post better explaining their reasoning behind changes like Thrawn not being able to Fracture GLs? This is an extremely niche ability found nowhere else in-game. A healthy meta is where GLs are in a league of their own, sure, but still able to be beaten with a few non-GL teams.
They said they want GL to be mini-raid bosses. Do you need explanation why fracture can’t full stop raid bosses?
Okay, Mr. Smarty Pants.
It appears GLs are getting some raid boss features and not others. Why was Fracture mechanic chosen to be one where they do behave like raid bosses?
If you check the post carefully, fracture was not the only one where GL will act like raid bosses. It’s the one that caught your eyes though
Neither I nor the guy with the original question said that. Care to try and answer the actual question?
BTW, you can't. You don't know the answer. Unless you have some inside knowledge the rest of us don't.
Your question is wrong. GL do not get raid boss features. It’s the other characters’ abilities that are changed regarding GL.
But regarding your question, are you asking why GL don’t get raid boss features such as enrage and take 3 actions in 1 turn?
Seriously this has the potencial to break the game. After all what will be the point of trying to develop dozens of characters when in the end only the 6 GL will matter (New Vader Included)?
Truth be told i do hope CG takes a big hit on their revenue with this predatory new milking tactic. Maybe that way they will turn back from it.
Galactic Legends and non-GL counters/interactions:
The community has always been excellent at puzzle-solving, theory-crafting, and finding ways to maximize the effectiveness of their rosters. The changes are meant to not only allow for more design space for powerful characters below Galactic Legends, but also to prevent situations in which a non-GL could one-shot or otherwise severely and regularly reduce the effectiveness of a Galactic Legend.
As we mentioned in the video, changing characters post launch is a last resort. There needs to be a balance between how consistent a counter is and how powerful the squad they are facing is in comparison. This is not just for squads with GLs, but for any squad that is able to counter another. For a healthy balance to the meta, counters should require a similar amount of resources to the team they can beat, whether that’s mods, gear/relic level, and/or specific units.
GLs require a large amount of time and resources to unlock and their place in the meta should reflect the difficulty involved in unlocking them. They are late-game units and it makes sense they would be commensurate in power and effectiveness to their status as late-game roster acquisitions that take a lot of effort to acquire.
This doesn't really answer the issue though. It sounds like you still may allow non-GL counters, as long as they are soft, or aren't 100%.
As for the amount of resources: GAS and JKL both require near-GL levels of resources.....so shouldn't they be able to punch up?
You are ignoring how many tickets (translated to more crystals and time) you need to get in order to unlock and maxing GL. I suspect Nukem and JKR JKL will still work against some poorly modded Rey and SLK teams
Can the developers please make a post better explaining their reasoning behind changes like Thrawn not being able to Fracture GLs? This is an extremely niche ability found nowhere else in-game. A healthy meta is where GLs are in a league of their own, sure, but still able to be beaten with a few non-GL teams.
They said they want GL to be mini-raid bosses. Do you need explanation why fracture can’t full stop raid bosses?
Okay, Mr. Smarty Pants.
It appears GLs are getting some raid boss features and not others. Why was Fracture mechanic chosen to be one where they do behave like raid bosses?
If you check the post carefully, fracture was not the only one where GL will act like raid bosses. It’s the one that caught your eyes though
Neither I nor the guy with the original question said that. Care to try and answer the actual question?
BTW, you can't. You don't know the answer. Unless you have some inside knowledge the rest of us don't.
Your question is wrong. GL do not get raid boss features. It’s the other characters’ abilities that are changed regarding GL.
But regarding your question, are you asking why GL don’t get raid boss features such as enrage and take 3 actions in 1 turn?
Not my question. I accept your point that the original question was built on a false premise. Perhaps lead with that next time
Galactic Legends and non-GL counters/interactions:
The community has always been excellent at puzzle-solving, theory-crafting, and finding ways to maximize the effectiveness of their rosters. The changes are meant to not only allow for more design space for powerful characters below Galactic Legends, but also to prevent situations in which a non-GL could one-shot or otherwise severely and regularly reduce the effectiveness of a Galactic Legend.
As we mentioned in the video, changing characters post launch is a last resort. There needs to be a balance between how consistent a counter is and how powerful the squad they are facing is in comparison. This is not just for squads with GLs, but for any squad that is able to counter another. For a healthy balance to the meta, counters should require a similar amount of resources to the team they can beat, whether that’s mods, gear/relic level, and/or specific units.
GLs require a large amount of time and resources to unlock and their place in the meta should reflect the difficulty involved in unlocking them. They are late-game units and it makes sense they would be commensurate in power and effectiveness to their status as late-game roster acquisitions that take a lot of effort to acquire.
I have to ask, where in the world was this sentiment that squads should only be counterable by another squad with similar resource requirements when players were asking for a buff to SEE? It hasn't even been six months since we were told that SEE is fine as is and didn't need any kit changes in spite of the fact that it was already well known that Troopers could beat him, even before the addition of Dark Trooper to the game. Now I wasn't one of those people who were heavy on the "buff SEE" train, but I just find it immensely odd that CG is making a complete u-turn on the situation this soon. And it's not even that you changed your mind after six months. You and Doja have made it clear that this has been in the works for months now, so it can't have been more than two or three months after CG said that SEE is fine that you also started planning for these changes. So why were players made to believe that their complaints about SEE being too weak were invalid, only for CG to end up buffing him anyway?
Relic 9 is further out and will be coming to the game after the character changes are implemented, not before. We’ll share more details on R9 as it gets closer. Having said that, the character changes needed to happen before R9, otherwise the underlying issues surrounding defense being ignored would only be exasperated.
You can't seriously have read through all 32 pages of this megathread and come to the conclusion that the most "recurring" concern about R9 is whether its coming to the game before or after the character changes. No, the main concern is the absurd gear crunch that you have shown no concrete interest in alleviating whatsoever.
You can do this sleight of hand and try to distract from the issue all you want, but it's not going to disappear no matter how much CG wants it to. The more you (not you personally, but CG) avoid saying anything about the gear crunch, the more out of touch you seem. And if it's not already obvious, you already seem way out of touch.
I hope this response sheds some light on our perspective. We will continue to escalate your feedback to the team and be here to answer as many questions as possible.
If that's the case then here's a few questions I think a lot of us would like answers to:
- If in the future players are able to theorycraft non-GL counters to GL teams, can we presume that those will be nerfed just like you're doing with most of the counters that currently exist?
- Why do the developers believe that no changes to matchmaking are necessary despite this huge undertaking of changes to the top end meta?
- Why are even ship events requiring relic characters now, one of whom (Dengar) doesn't even have a ship?
- Why do the developers feel that R9 is ready to be introduced, when you've barely done anything to reduce the purple gear crunch, let alone crunches like g12 gear and scavenger materials?
- How many years do you think players should have to play before they're able to gear characters up without every single of one them getting stuck starting at g8 because of carbantis and stun cuffs and stun guns and droid callers? Especially since it looks like quite literally everything moving forward is going to require high relics on characters.
- Do you think it's healthy for the game that many endgame players are having to farm for the most basic grey and green gear because they don't have enough to craft carbonite circuit boards (which should be the easiest scavenger piece) anymore? Will R9 exacerbate this even further?
"The community has always been excellent at puzzle-solving, theory-crafting, and finding ways to maximize the effectiveness of their rosters. The changes are meant to not only allow for more design space for powerful characters below Galactic Legends, but also to prevent situations in which a non-GL could one-shot or otherwise severely and regularly reduce the effectiveness of a Galactic Legend.
As we mentioned in the video, changing characters post launch is a last resort. There needs to be a balance between how consistent a counter is and how powerful the squad they are facing is in comparison. This is not just for squads with GLs, but for any squad that is able to counter another. For a healthy balance to the meta, counters should require a similar amount of resources to the team they can beat, whether that’s mods, gear/relic level, and/or specific units."
Why are you guys suddenly so insistant upon fabricating these barriers to players who want to get creative? I mean, hell: what stopped you before from saying "OH, these marquee characters shouldn't be beating these LEGENDARY characters, since legendary characters are so much harder to unlock. Let's rewrite go and rewrite the whole f'n rule book so that doesnt happen." It all sort of reeks of poor character design, long term planning, and complete backtracking; and it's not fair to punish the player base for that. (I dont want to hear anything else about how they're getting buffed vs Non-GL either, as frankly I dont care. I used many of these characters almost exclusively on GL counter squads in GA, Twar and most importantly Conquest)And to add, where was this energy almost a year ago when Vader started wrecking Rey squads and you all said you weren't planning on changing that??
This entire situation seriously feels like a giant middle finger to the playerbase. F2p or not, you're removing creativity and fun out of a game that was already sorely lacking in both categories. Hell, I've been playing for 5 years and the main reason I still play is because of the time and money I've sunk into it. It's nothing more than a chore at this point--and one that I've never been closer to calling it quits on.
@CG_SBCrumb_MINI what is the point in reading feedback if you simply double down on your position?
Soliciting feedback implies that there is room for compromise. Your reiteration just reminds the community that there isn’t.
And if you want to make GLs non-GL proof, the gear crunch has to be fixed, since now there is even MORE emphasis on massive gear efforts.
Oh, they fixed it all right, just not from our perspective. The horrible gear crunch for GLs can no longer be bypassed by cheaper counters. As far as CG is concerned, that fixes it.
Why not reverse these awful decisions and apologise for getting it wrong.
This is not new content, this won't be like the minor backlash to relics or relic 7. You are crushing theory crafting and basically saying more gls = win and yet doing nothing to matchmaking more fairly.
Your product is stale, graphics are becoming worse not better (horrible artistic shard faces). Conquest is gonna end rinse and repeat. Your only ideas for the future road ahead is... Let's introduce relic 9.. and nerf any units for GL counters.. wow..... That's crap, it really is...
The road ahead for 2022, hey guys we are going to introduce relic 10.. kyros will be the only gear used for scavenger.. how exciting. Keep up the terrible work! Oh ps more non gl nerfs.
1) A progress trap is a new technology that could improve life but that ends up making things worse due to a failure to manage risks.
2) Income inequality is how unevenly income is distributed throughout a population. The less equal the distribution, the higher income inequality is.
You guys are tasked with balancing f2p and p2p which is not easy you must convince the spenders they need to have new toon x or relic level y to find success and fulfillment in this game while at the same time keep the large base of f2p population content with their lower tier in the SWGOH society thus creating an income gap for these 2 populations of players.
The only way this works is if there is hope for success for the F2P population and you crushed that in the most recent announcement you said the rich will get richer with a new GL, a difficult to obtain capital ship and a new relic level that is now a second tier above what most have the ability to get on top of that you took away any hope of a player who is facing a GL deficit of winning in GAC and Arena and increased the level of difficulty for Hard Conquest success which is the only small source of getting the needed materials for R8 and above.
The game has evolved and yet you still can’t throw a Crumb to your F2P base? You could add 5 salvage stun guns, cuffs and Carbanti to each daily reward for completing tasks and the f2p would rejoice at the false hope this would provide. All that gear would help them and give them joy but not help close the gap with the whales who will still be further ahead they might rejoice that it is easier to get to gear 12 while the elites are hitting R9.
Instead the income gap grows larger and in a society where that happens revolution usually follows and when the player population drops because there is no hope for the majority of players the executives will replace you with someone new to fix the problem or the game itself will no longer grow and be what it is today. When that happens I want you to remember the definition of a progress trap.
Can the developers please make a post better explaining their reasoning behind changes like Thrawn not being able to Fracture GLs? This is an extremely niche ability found nowhere else in-game. A healthy meta is where GLs are in a league of their own, sure, but still able to be beaten with a few non-GL teams.
They said they want GL to be mini-raid bosses. Do you need explanation why fracture can’t full stop raid bosses?
Okay, Mr. Smarty Pants.
It appears GLs are getting some raid boss features and not others. Why was Fracture mechanic chosen to be one where they do behave like raid bosses?
Which other skills that have a different effect on raid bosses are not going to be changed to include GLs?
I can ask.
Hux and JMK’s TM Block are also on this list. JMK especially, as he might exempt himself from his own TM Manipulation Blocker.
It's the nerf to Thrawn vexes me most. He's been in the game since mid 2017 and fracture has never been an issue - yes, it doesn't apply the same way to raid bosses, but it's hard to understand why after all these years it's an issue now.
I'm not buying the investment into GLs needs to be protected argument. I think all of the GLs have non-GL counters but they are still the most powerful characters in the game. They don't need protecting. It's only CG that are saying they do and I suspect they're only saying this to try and funnel more money into GLs.
Galactic Legends and non-GL counters/interactions:
The community has always been excellent at puzzle-solving, theory-crafting, and finding ways to maximize the effectiveness of their rosters. The changes are meant to not only allow for more design space for powerful characters below Galactic Legends, but also to prevent situations in which a non-GL could one-shot or otherwise severely and regularly reduce the effectiveness of a Galactic Legend.
As we mentioned in the video, changing characters post launch is a last resort. There needs to be a balance between how consistent a counter is and how powerful the squad they are facing is in comparison. This is not just for squads with GLs, but for any squad that is able to counter another. For a healthy balance to the meta, counters should require a similar amount of resources to the team they can beat, whether that’s mods, gear/relic level, and/or specific units.
GLs require a large amount of time and resources to unlock and their place in the meta should reflect the difficulty involved in unlocking them. They are late-game units and it makes sense they would be commensurate in power and effectiveness to their status as late-game roster acquisitions that take a lot of effort to acquire.
By that logic you should nerf JMK and make JML the most powerful GL since he requires the most resources in total?
By that logic you should nerf JMK and make JML the most powerful GL since he requires the most resources in total?
The logic is fallible and that is because they are misdirecting us from the main reason this happening and it has everything to do with the loss of exclusivity to the Star Wars license and what I can only envision the nearing end of their contract with Disney all together. That is what actually sounds logical by these tactics and the timing of them.
Galactic Legends and non-GL counters/interactions:
The community has always been excellent at puzzle-solving, theory-crafting, and finding ways to maximize the effectiveness of their rosters. The changes are meant to not only allow for more design space for powerful characters below Galactic Legends, but also to prevent situations in which a non-GL could one-shot or otherwise severely and regularly reduce the effectiveness of a Galactic Legend.
So even with best case scenario, when you are able to beat GL without using one in a counter team, one would need more robust roster facing oponent with GLs in GAC and TW.
Either way, will there be any changes to matchups?
I don’t understand how someone could equal f2p to no GL. I mean I am a f2p and have all 5 GL. All you need is to join a good guild and invest a significant amount of time each day (and to have some brains ofc).
As to the changes, crazy requirements of new ship and LV, and introduction of R9, pretty much everything is in line with CG’s practice. At least they gave us a month’s notice! Isn’t that great? At the end of the day, people leave because they don’t like the game, not because of the changes; people stay because they like this game, or like to play with the friends; whales still gonna pay because, well, they are whales. In a year or 2 nobody will remember this RA.
Sound good to have 5 GL with f2p, but tbh its hard to believe.
I guess you play since day 1. But still how did you manage to get e.g. that much energy to unlock JMK?
I started my f2p account at end of january, like 10 of my shard members already have GL . Someone has it since months..
I now have 1 relic 5 FO character and 5 G12. Rest are G8-9.
I dont see that i will unlock SLKR in months..
So even if i have million times, i cannot compensate/accelerate the energy refresh.. so yes you need time to log in and collect energy and do the farming, but not that significat amount.
I think i have some knowledge about the game as i read a lot but there is still a gap what you cannot overtake by just spending more time on game.
I dont mind that there will be R9, but i dont like that i strugle a lot to get caracters from G8 to G9 and so on.
Lets face it G8-G9-G10 is far from r9.
If they would separate players in GAC and TW based on GL numbers then im fine with these changes.
But it dont this wil happen. Like when my old guild with 50M GP (0 GL) faced with another 50m guild with 3 GL. That 3 GL came from 1 player, but sill it was hopeless.
It’s not only about energy. You can earn a huge amount of gear thx to guild events (raids, tw, tb). As you grow your guild will grow with you or you should be able to find a stronger guild if your actual guild mates are not as invested in the game as you are.
About gac (only gac, not talking about tw), if you face an opponent with a gl, it means you had the resources to get one and chose not to. Up to you, you play the game as you fancy, but don’t blame matchmaking. Use the 14 good characters you relic’d while you opponent relic’d prerequisites to try and win anyway.
So you say you looked at the feedback, but conveniently ignored every other post about the gear crunch and Relic 8. Why don’t you guys just man up and admit it is a cash grab? This game is eventually going to die out if you ignore your player base. I buy so much from the store, but even I’m getting **** that I can’t buy Aeromagnifiers. 90% of your players can’t access them and these new toons will be out of reach. I won’t get more until you put them on the store again, because I have no desire to leave a guild I’ve put so much into.
Listen to your players, so many people have quit on this game, do you really want to upset the people that keep y’all in business? Seems like pulling on a loose thread don’t you think?
Doja and I spent most of the weekend gathering sentiment and feedback regarding the Road Ahead. Below are some of the most recurring comments we noticed, and hopefully the following responses will help clarify some of the questions and concerns you have.
Galactic Legends and non-GL counters/interactions:
The community has always been excellent at puzzle-solving, theory-crafting, and finding ways to maximize the effectiveness of their rosters. The changes are meant to not only allow for more design space for powerful characters below Galactic Legends, but also to prevent situations in which a non-GL could one-shot or otherwise severely and regularly reduce the effectiveness of a Galactic Legend.
As we mentioned in the video, changing characters post launch is a last resort. There needs to be a balance between how consistent a counter is and how powerful the squad they are facing is in comparison. This is not just for squads with GLs, but for any squad that is able to counter another. For a healthy balance to the meta, counters should require a similar amount of resources to the team they can beat, whether that’s mods, gear/relic level, and/or specific units.
GLs require a large amount of time and resources to unlock and their place in the meta should reflect the difficulty involved in unlocking them. They are late-game units and it makes sense they would be commensurate in power and effectiveness to their status as late-game roster acquisitions that take a lot of effort to acquire.
And what should players who do not have GL have to endure for 2 years until they collect it, and during this time GL will no longer be effective. I, like many players, poured resources from pumping over packs and now all this is in the trash. Why is Thrawn needed now? He became useless like Tambor, they had 1 ability needed and you remove it. Then cut the damage to legends by 40%. How then to fight against Gl without having Gl? NO WAY?
Replies
@CG_SBCrumb_MINI thanks for taking the time. Thanks for the video format and every explication you just gave.
But I must disagree... You guys are making a huge mistake with the GLs vs non GLs changes.
The fun of the game is to balance mods on non meta characters to have a chance a using some useful counters. I was a almost f2p the first 3 years, and for the last 2 years I have poured ridiculous amount of money into your game. The GLs are more accessible to paying customers and I don’t think they are happy. Competition is fun and when you make it impossible to compete, even for just a bit of the game, it feels you are not listening and not understanding.
You say changing kits are last resort but you are operating numerous changes on various key characters for only 6 GLs ? Come on...
Managing the game and all its aspects must be really complex I understand but listen to us !! We want GLs to be vulnerable ! Make them humans again
You can keep all other changes, just retract yourself on the GLs bit
FIX THE GEAR ECONOMY SO G12 IS NOT SUCH A HEADACHE!!!!
I don't feel like myself and the community are asking for much when we say this. Relics are hard enough to get on their own but just g8 to g9 is still a choking point and in a 5 year old game it simply SHOULD NOT BE. My just over 4 mil alt and my just under 7 mil main should NOT be struggling for the same gear pieces. My main is in a larger gulid, runs all the high end content, does well at all of it (red box every time in conquest, frequent top 5-10 in Cpit and HSith) and yet STILL struggles with stun guns and golden eyeballs and stun cuffs.
And while we're continuing to endure this stranglehold the devs have on the gear in the game, you're talking about r9. I had to blow loads of gear just to get impulse detectors for GMY and GK to hit r8 for JMK's reqs. They're my 2nd and 3rd r8s (I only have 3). I have hardly any gear for the remaining 3 toons I need to finish. And you're now talking r9? Do the devs know they sound tone deaf on this gear issue? And that announcing r9 feels like they really don't get the weight of the gear crunch on us players?
Because that's exactly how they come across and what makes so many players angry.
Sound good to have 5 GL with f2p, but tbh its hard to believe.
I guess you play since day 1. But still how did you manage to get e.g. that much energy to unlock JMK?
I started my f2p account at end of january, like 10 of my shard members already have GL . Someone has it since months..
I now have 1 relic 5 FO character and 5 G12. Rest are G8-9.
I dont see that i will unlock SLKR in months..
So even if i have million times, i cannot compensate/accelerate the energy refresh.. so yes you need time to log in and collect energy and do the farming, but not that significat amount.
I think i have some knowledge about the game as i read a lot but there is still a gap what you cannot overtake by just spending more time on game.
I dont mind that there will be R9, but i dont like that i strugle a lot to get caracters from G8 to G9 and so on.
Lets face it G8-G9-G10 is far from r9.
If they would separate players in GAC and TW based on GL numbers then im fine with these changes.
But it dont this wil happen. Like when my old guild with 50M GP (0 GL) faced with another 50m guild with 3 GL. That 3 GL came from 1 player, but sill it was hopeless.
I have never liked that non-GL characters can CONSISTENTLY beat GL-led teams. That being said, there NEEDS be counters that are non-GL or it will completely screw up GAC and TW.
My hope, which I actually stated in the forums on reddit about a month ago, is for there to be multiple counters that are non-GL, but that are INCONSISTENT or have a decent amount of RNG involved. Hopefully CG see's it the same way. If your significantly punching up in terms of power, then it should be risky.
It still takes time to get to 5 million GP, no matter how many GLs you have. Most of the time I'm (division 5) facing people with 2 GLs. So I can't be creative after this. They just lay both down on defense, and I'm screwed. I'm at least 2 months I'd say from my second GL. So for the next two months I have no chance. That's terrible. GAC is my favorite part of the game because you have to be creative managing your resources.
And at no point in Arena have I seen a complete non-GL counter vs. a GL in my shard. Usually people use the characters you are nerfing to overcome a natural disadvantage, I.E. SEE vs SLKR or SLKR vs JML.
So all I have is SLKR right now, so I have to be creative in arena to climb if there's a wall of JMLs. Which is already frustrating.
I know balancing a game with 120+ characters is difficult. But please find another way to even the scales without taking away the options of those of us who are working diligently to get a GL or get more.
My biggest issue with the non GL nerf is that if you (rhetorical, I get you're just the messenger) didn't want non GLs beating GLs, why wait a year to nerf them?
At this point we all assumed the counters were safe and had invested resources into them. Imp troopers is a great example. They countered See from the very beginning. And even after a mega thread over 100 pages the answer was that it was fine. If it was fine then, why isn't it fine now?
The time to have fixed it was when the GL first came out and with enough warning of, "don't invest in this counter because it's going to be nerfed". Instead, you said it wasn't going to be nerfed and people invested in that counter.
And refunding the gear to r5 is a joke. If the team no longer has the significant viability it did, the gear and Zetas should be fully refunded. To g1 not r5 or r7.
For r9. It's too soon. The gear crunch needs eased. Please no more we're looking into it. It needs eased now. It should be eased before r9. Especially with a GL now being a requirement to be competitive in arena. Currently, a new account will take over a year to get there ftp. Previously we had the option of farming a counter to at least try and get more crystals while we reliced the 15 characters needed for a GL (about half of them useless). But now new players that don't drop thousands of dollars have to farm a GL while being locked out of the top of arena even longer.
This is a very bad change. Please reconsider.
I had a question that wasn't answered with how this will effect GAC/TW/Conquest?
GAC/TW: How will these GL changes translate into GAC/TW? In the current matchmaking system, its all too possible to consistently get matched up with someone who has more GLs than you or your guild. With these changes, a slight disadvantage that can be navigated with GL counters now all of the sudden becomes a huge disadvantage; should be an instant loss in this new system.
Conquest: Many of the feats required some of these anti-GL abilities to make the max reward box obtainable or possibly for those without a GL they were able to obtain max rewards; how will these changes affect this game mode? For example, Rey w/ Thrawn Fracture or Wat Weapon Tech on Vader.
I'm sure the answer to both of these are well... It's complicated.. But basically you're screwed. I hope I'm wrong. I understand justifying the reward of obtaining a gl in something like arena.. but when my 7.1 m gp account with 4 GLs is matched with a 7.4m gp account with 5 GLs, the odds shouldn't be insurmountable. This isn't poker. Before these modes could be calculated strategically. This is being replaced with what I valued. To implement such a change should have been coupled with a change in Algorithm where it evaluates number of GL s first when matchmaking if you're effectively breaking the meta in 2. This is an oversight and will most likely lead to my and many more s exit to the game unfortunately. I will wait and see, but won't give it much time if what was fun to me turns into frustration. I already feel like the past year has been partially wasted shoring my roster to cover counters, etc. And no the 4 refunds will not change that.
Thank you for your time and work
Your question is wrong. GL do not get raid boss features. It’s the other characters’ abilities that are changed regarding GL.
But regarding your question, are you asking why GL don’t get raid boss features such as enrage and take 3 actions in 1 turn?
Truth be told i do hope CG takes a big hit on their revenue with this predatory new milking tactic. Maybe that way they will turn back from it.
Soliciting feedback implies that there is room for compromise. Your reiteration just reminds the community that there isn’t.
And if you want to make GLs non-GL proof, the gear crunch has to be fixed, since now there is even MORE emphasis on massive gear efforts.
You are ignoring how many tickets (translated to more crystals and time) you need to get in order to unlock and maxing GL. I suspect Nukem and JKR JKL will still work against some poorly modded Rey and SLK teams
Not my question. I accept your point that the original question was built on a false premise. Perhaps lead with that next time
I have to ask, where in the world was this sentiment that squads should only be counterable by another squad with similar resource requirements when players were asking for a buff to SEE? It hasn't even been six months since we were told that SEE is fine as is and didn't need any kit changes in spite of the fact that it was already well known that Troopers could beat him, even before the addition of Dark Trooper to the game. Now I wasn't one of those people who were heavy on the "buff SEE" train, but I just find it immensely odd that CG is making a complete u-turn on the situation this soon. And it's not even that you changed your mind after six months. You and Doja have made it clear that this has been in the works for months now, so it can't have been more than two or three months after CG said that SEE is fine that you also started planning for these changes. So why were players made to believe that their complaints about SEE being too weak were invalid, only for CG to end up buffing him anyway?
You can't seriously have read through all 32 pages of this megathread and come to the conclusion that the most "recurring" concern about R9 is whether its coming to the game before or after the character changes. No, the main concern is the absurd gear crunch that you have shown no concrete interest in alleviating whatsoever.
You can do this sleight of hand and try to distract from the issue all you want, but it's not going to disappear no matter how much CG wants it to. The more you (not you personally, but CG) avoid saying anything about the gear crunch, the more out of touch you seem. And if it's not already obvious, you already seem way out of touch.
If that's the case then here's a few questions I think a lot of us would like answers to:
- If in the future players are able to theorycraft non-GL counters to GL teams, can we presume that those will be nerfed just like you're doing with most of the counters that currently exist?
- Why do the developers believe that no changes to matchmaking are necessary despite this huge undertaking of changes to the top end meta?
- Why are even ship events requiring relic characters now, one of whom (Dengar) doesn't even have a ship?
- Why do the developers feel that R9 is ready to be introduced, when you've barely done anything to reduce the purple gear crunch, let alone crunches like g12 gear and scavenger materials?
- How many years do you think players should have to play before they're able to gear characters up without every single of one them getting stuck starting at g8 because of carbantis and stun cuffs and stun guns and droid callers? Especially since it looks like quite literally everything moving forward is going to require high relics on characters.
- Do you think it's healthy for the game that many endgame players are having to farm for the most basic grey and green gear because they don't have enough to craft carbonite circuit boards (which should be the easiest scavenger piece) anymore? Will R9 exacerbate this even further?
As we mentioned in the video, changing characters post launch is a last resort. There needs to be a balance between how consistent a counter is and how powerful the squad they are facing is in comparison. This is not just for squads with GLs, but for any squad that is able to counter another. For a healthy balance to the meta, counters should require a similar amount of resources to the team they can beat, whether that’s mods, gear/relic level, and/or specific units."
Why are you guys suddenly so insistant upon fabricating these barriers to players who want to get creative? I mean, hell: what stopped you before from saying "OH, these marquee characters shouldn't be beating these LEGENDARY characters, since legendary characters are so much harder to unlock. Let's rewrite go and rewrite the whole f'n rule book so that doesnt happen." It all sort of reeks of poor character design, long term planning, and complete backtracking; and it's not fair to punish the player base for that. (I dont want to hear anything else about how they're getting buffed vs Non-GL either, as frankly I dont care. I used many of these characters almost exclusively on GL counter squads in GA, Twar and most importantly Conquest)And to add, where was this energy almost a year ago when Vader started wrecking Rey squads and you all said you weren't planning on changing that??
This entire situation seriously feels like a giant middle finger to the playerbase. F2p or not, you're removing creativity and fun out of a game that was already sorely lacking in both categories. Hell, I've been playing for 5 years and the main reason I still play is because of the time and money I've sunk into it. It's nothing more than a chore at this point--and one that I've never been closer to calling it quits on.
Oh, they fixed it all right, just not from our perspective. The horrible gear crunch for GLs can no longer be bypassed by cheaper counters. As far as CG is concerned, that fixes it.
This is not new content, this won't be like the minor backlash to relics or relic 7. You are crushing theory crafting and basically saying more gls = win and yet doing nothing to matchmaking more fairly.
Your product is stale, graphics are becoming worse not better (horrible artistic shard faces). Conquest is gonna end rinse and repeat. Your only ideas for the future road ahead is... Let's introduce relic 9.. and nerf any units for GL counters.. wow..... That's crap, it really is...
The road ahead for 2022, hey guys we are going to introduce relic 10.. kyros will be the only gear used for scavenger.. how exciting. Keep up the terrible work! Oh ps more non gl nerfs.
1) A progress trap is a new technology that could improve life but that ends up making things worse due to a failure to manage risks.
2) Income inequality is how unevenly income is distributed throughout a population. The less equal the distribution, the higher income inequality is.
You guys are tasked with balancing f2p and p2p which is not easy you must convince the spenders they need to have new toon x or relic level y to find success and fulfillment in this game while at the same time keep the large base of f2p population content with their lower tier in the SWGOH society thus creating an income gap for these 2 populations of players.
The only way this works is if there is hope for success for the F2P population and you crushed that in the most recent announcement you said the rich will get richer with a new GL, a difficult to obtain capital ship and a new relic level that is now a second tier above what most have the ability to get on top of that you took away any hope of a player who is facing a GL deficit of winning in GAC and Arena and increased the level of difficulty for Hard Conquest success which is the only small source of getting the needed materials for R8 and above.
The game has evolved and yet you still can’t throw a Crumb to your F2P base? You could add 5 salvage stun guns, cuffs and Carbanti to each daily reward for completing tasks and the f2p would rejoice at the false hope this would provide. All that gear would help them and give them joy but not help close the gap with the whales who will still be further ahead they might rejoice that it is easier to get to gear 12 while the elites are hitting R9.
Instead the income gap grows larger and in a society where that happens revolution usually follows and when the player population drops because there is no hope for the majority of players the executives will replace you with someone new to fix the problem or the game itself will no longer grow and be what it is today. When that happens I want you to remember the definition of a progress trap.
Also… the video was nice
Hux and JMK’s TM Block are also on this list. JMK especially, as he might exempt himself from his own TM Manipulation Blocker.
I'm not buying the investment into GLs needs to be protected argument. I think all of the GLs have non-GL counters but they are still the most powerful characters in the game. They don't need protecting. It's only CG that are saying they do and I suspect they're only saying this to try and funnel more money into GLs.
By that logic you should nerf JMK and make JML the most powerful GL since he requires the most resources in total?
The logic is fallible and that is because they are misdirecting us from the main reason this happening and it has everything to do with the loss of exclusivity to the Star Wars license and what I can only envision the nearing end of their contract with Disney all together. That is what actually sounds logical by these tactics and the timing of them.
So even with best case scenario, when you are able to beat GL without using one in a counter team, one would need more robust roster facing oponent with GLs in GAC and TW.
Either way, will there be any changes to matchups?
It’s not only about energy. You can earn a huge amount of gear thx to guild events (raids, tw, tb). As you grow your guild will grow with you or you should be able to find a stronger guild if your actual guild mates are not as invested in the game as you are.
About gac (only gac, not talking about tw), if you face an opponent with a gl, it means you had the resources to get one and chose not to. Up to you, you play the game as you fancy, but don’t blame matchmaking. Use the 14 good characters you relic’d while you opponent relic’d prerequisites to try and win anyway.
Listen to your players, so many people have quit on this game, do you really want to upset the people that keep y’all in business? Seems like pulling on a loose thread don’t you think?