[MEGA] Road Ahead: July 2021

Replies

  • So many bad changes in the game why CG you not make one good change make the gear drops guaranteed so can every Player get your Excessive requirement handle.
  • Nauros
    5165 posts Member
    SerylT2 wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    That one is actually fair, I think. Not having NDAs would lead to information getting disseminated in an uncontrolled way, and some people would get an advantage over others. Once real money gets involved, things could get troublesome.
    That said, there could be at least some officially sanctioned information coming from the testers.

    It is a very weak excuse as open Beta testing is extremely common in todays world of gaming. You can of course look across the field of the gaming industry at the divide between open and NDA beta testing.. and see the same divide on companies that care what players think.. and which companies do not.

    You have to keep in mind what kind of game this is. In a "once and done" game, I would completely agree with you, but as this game is all about long term planning, it's a bit of a different case. If someone leaked, say, Executor to their guild, they could prepare for it in advance and get it day 1 without spending a dime. That not only reduces income for CG, but also provides an unfair advantage in a game where people usually spend real money to get ahead. As I said, troublesome.
  • You can have “blind” beta testing where the people testing don’t know the requirements for being eligible access of the final mode/character/raid/thing. You can also use dummy graphics and names so that the beta testers don’t know what the new character or raid is. They’re only testing the balance of the mode or mechanics of the new character. These are just examples to illustrate the concept of beta testing sensitive content publicly. Of course we always have NDAs as well, it’s standard practice, but if someone wants to leak info the NDA doesn’t really help after the cat is out of the bag.
  • I’m fine with the ship requirements. It’s steep but we need a new Meta. I doesn’t make sense that we still don’t have enough non capital ships to fill fleets. Why are you not focusing there first?

    As for the Reworks, I don’t think (the devs) you are looking at this accurately. One of the best counters required 4 hard to get characters to counter a GL. Thrawn, Vader, Wat and Traya. It takes many months to get Wat and Traya since they are limited to events. Thrawn is a special mission to acquire and Vader took forever even though it was years ago for long time players like me. Using 4 very difficult to acquire characters is equal to a GL. And it’s not always certain that you will win with the counter anyway. Please don’t rework these characters. It’s really disheartening to the clever theory crafters and to the community at large.

    It feels like we are Charlie Brown and the devs are Lucy. (Pulling out football away when we thing we have a shot).
  • th3evo
    358 posts Member
    Nauros wrote: »
    SerylT2 wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    That one is actually fair, I think. Not having NDAs would lead to information getting disseminated in an uncontrolled way, and some people would get an advantage over others. Once real money gets involved, things could get troublesome.
    That said, there could be at least some officially sanctioned information coming from the testers.

    It is a very weak excuse as open Beta testing is extremely common in todays world of gaming. You can of course look across the field of the gaming industry at the divide between open and NDA beta testing.. and see the same divide on companies that care what players think.. and which companies do not.

    You have to keep in mind what kind of game this is. In a "once and done" game, I would completely agree with you, but as this game is all about long term planning, it's a bit of a different case. If someone leaked, say, Executor to their guild, they could prepare for it in advance and get it day 1 without spending a dime. That not only reduces income for CG, but also provides an unfair advantage in a game where people usually spend real money to get ahead. As I said, troublesome.

    A lot of MMOs have public test servers with no issues. It's not the same as playtesting but it's at least something.
  • KKatarn
    629 posts Member
    edited July 2021
    BaronFlame wrote: »
    SerylT2 wrote: »
    BeralCator wrote: »
    'member the good old days when a minor service interruption would result in a 400 crystal make-good? Now we can (maybe) get our own resources back when there are massively disruptive kit changes...

    Every dollar matters to EA today.. those 400 crystals could be a few more dollars they could leech out of you my man! xD

    I mean, EA did lose their SW exclusivity. Tis only a matter of time. I am going to take those dollars to warframe. Gara Prime in Prime access....I mean, no EA and squeezing every penny out of you. Nooooooooo

    To be fair with EA they did a decent job recovering SW Battlefront 2 after the lootboxes debacle and SW Jedi Fallen Order and SW Squadrons were story heavy games free of microtransactions and that sold really well. Plus SW The Old Republic is a really cool game and worth the subscription fee.

    It is only here in this cursed mobile game that things seems to be turning worse every time CG decides to make one of their "great changes". :#
  • Perhaps another idea would be a version of GAC where GL's are locked out? People choose to play one or the other and if you play with no GL's, they aren't available for offense or defense, then they don't become an issue and theorycrafting is all about beating teams without worrying about GL's being in the way.
  • BaronFlame
    52 posts Member
    edited July 2021
    KKatarn wrote: »
    To be fair with EA they did a decent job recovering SW Battlefront 2 after the lootboxes debacle and SW Jedi Fallen Order and SW Squadrons were story heavy games free of microtransactions and that sold really well. Plus SW The Old Republic is a really cool game and worth the subscription fee.

    It is only here in this cursed mobile game that things seems to be turning worse every time CG decides to make one of their "great changes". :#

    Fallen order and squadrons were a surprise. I didn't expect those games to be like the way they were. Old Republic has a solid foundations. I haven't played it in a while but even back then I had zero problems sinking money into it.

    There was this one article that I read not to long ago that stated that GOH was responsible for 98% of the revenue generated from the last 4 or 5 SW mobile games, which sounds about right. I think the game has generated 1.2billion or so in profit over its lifetime. I am not sure how verifiable these numbers are but I am sure that it's not just the top tier spenders who are responsible for all of that.

    The way you keep the mid and the lower tier spending is by making them believe that there is a chance that they might be able to stay somewhat relevant by spending little amounts consistently. If I know that there is no way I can compete without a GL I am not going to spend at all. Any non-GL launch after this doesn't really matter to me because what's the point? I'll get to it when I get to it. I'll just switch to casual here and go back to being competitive in another game.
    The whales, Krakens and anyone who isn't hit by these chances can laugh and scoff at a handful saying that they aren't going to be spending but that sentiment can easily spread. Everyone is free to do whatever they want in this game and I am definitely no one to dictate another person's way of gaming but if that sentiment spreads......
  • TVF
    31779 posts Member
    BaronFlame wrote: »
    The whales, Krakens and anyone who isn't hit by these chances can laugh and scoff at a handful saying that they aren't going to be spending but that sentiment can easily spread. Everyone is free to do whatever they want in this game and I am definitely no one to dictate another person's way of gaming but if that sentiment spreads......

    The problem is that this sentiment is expressed with every change....and presumably CG has data that shows otherwise.
    The CGDF is no more. Now we hate CG because of the change to the shipment tab. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Ultra
    9560 posts Moderator
    Whatelse73 wrote: »
    Perhaps another idea would be a version of GAC where GL's are locked out? People choose to play one or the other and if you play with no GL's, they aren't available for offense or defense, then they don't become an issue and theorycrafting is all about beating teams without worrying about GL's being in the way.

    Would just punish / encourage players not to go for multiple GLs (just get 1 for arena and that's it)
  • BaronFlame
    52 posts Member
    edited July 2021
    TVF wrote: »
    BaronFlame wrote: »
    The whales, Krakens and anyone who isn't hit by these chances can laugh and scoff at a handful saying that they aren't going to be spending but that sentiment can easily spread. Everyone is free to do whatever they want in this game and I am definitely no one to dictate another person's way of gaming but if that sentiment spreads......

    The problem is that this sentiment is expressed with every change....and presumably CG has data that shows otherwise.

    If it doesn't materialize, good for them(?). Personally I think (keep in mind that my reaction has gone from disbelief to infuriated back and forth a few times. I am currently at the 'SMH while chuckling' point.) that this reaction is just more than just this update. No raids, no concrete news about improved match making, poor communication with the player base, everything has been building up. It doesn't help that the radio silence, when it is broken, causes well....this.
    Personally as much as I dislike Warframe(just giving an example here because it does have it's share of problems and the amount spent in that game just over cosmetic changes is staggering, a lot of other games do dev streams really well as well) not having a very well established late-end game. I love their consistent dev streams. major updates like these ones, again IMO, magnify the feeling of being drip fed content.
  • I know this will probably never be seen, but why can't you reduce Vader's bonus damage against GLs, instead of nerfing his damage against everything. The proposed change decreases overall damage by 40%, but increases bonus damage to 100% against raid bosses. It would be just as easy to reduce his bonus damage to 25% against GLs while maintaining his current overall damage. This should actually reduce his damage to GLs by more than the current proposed changes, and this would maintain his viability in normal game modes (Events, Conquest, Galactic Challenges, etc). Was this considered instead?
  • Ultra wrote: »
    Whatelse73 wrote: »
    Perhaps another idea would be a version of GAC where GL's are locked out? People choose to play one or the other and if you play with no GL's, they aren't available for offense or defense, then they don't become an issue and theorycrafting is all about beating teams without worrying about GL's being in the way.

    Would just punish / encourage players not to go for multiple GLs (just get 1 for arena and that's it)

    GL's are still needed in TB, TW, Conquest, Galactic Challenges, etc. There are plenty of other game modes that provide an encouragement to have GL's. Giving them the option to take GL's out of GAC battles might motivate players to do more than just join and autodeploy the whole time, or set the big screw you defenses. It'll bring back theorycrafting of pre-GL times.
  • Iy4oy4s
    2670 posts Member
    edited July 2021
    Kyno wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    If Crumb's post and the podcast are all the replies we're getting, then I'm not sure I've learned anything new since the announcement. And if that is the only response we're getting, bummer.

    Kyno, you keep repeating answers we've already heard. The problem is that their answer is not good enough, not that we haven't seen it. Those same words could be used to justify a nerf to GLs and a boost to the counters. We have not seen, because they have not shared, anything tangible to back up their claims. And many of us don't trust them because their responses often seem detached from our experience as players.

    This is why I'm so bothered by them muzzling these supposedly prominent play testers. If every die hard SWGOH player's favorite content creator could say, "I've seen these changes implemented on the test server. I know it sounds like a lot, but trust me, it won't be as bad as it sounds." Then you wouldn't have a community uproar. But from a group that thought cPit 1.0 was acceptable? Well I have no faith in them.

    If you think they are dishonest, no answers will ever be enough. They are not likely to share direct values or details.

    I'm not sure of a single game that has a beta program and allows those players to speak about the testing done. They dont need your faith.

    MSF did it with the ISO-8 testing and everything worked out just fine. Their CC's even made videos with "beta footage" to showcase what was to come. They have done this twice. CG cant do that because of "reasons".

    The fact of the matter is that the "beta testers" (if they even exist) do not have the trust of the community as evidenced by the original CPIT. Could they have said something to CG about how bad the original CPIT was, but CG went ahead with their plan, as they almost always do, sure, but we don't know that because we don't hear from them. Allowing some of the biggest CC's for this game to be in the beta test and relay their feedback to the community would go a loooooog way.

    As far as the gear crunch, Crumb said on that podcast last night, is the same thing that CG has said in the past..."We are looking into it".....I am so sick of that phrase because it means nothing when nothing happens.....and when it does, we get sold Kryotechs as a gear crunch easement......

    CG did do it, and if i recall for a long time people complained about certain people getting and sharing special access and leaks. So it's not that they can do it and choose not to. They had to cancel the program and rebuild it, for reasons.

    Correct you will not be privy to communication between the dev teams and testers, again, i think this is normal in any beta situation.

    Yes you can sight a few limited examples of open beta or times where beta programs have been given permission, but there are the exceptions not the rule.

    I can sight a few limited examples he says.....my example was SWGOH's direct competitor, can't get closer than that. MSF did it, CG can do it too. People complain about the gear crunch, mace rework, ship squad selector, etc all the time....CG doesnt change those things, so the "people complained" argument is weak. CG failed on the first release of the CPIT...by your logic, they would have just thrown it away rather than fix it, because "people complained"

    Bottom line is that CG CAN do it, they choose not to. That's the choice they have made, and all I am saying is that it would help if they followed MSF's lead on this, especially since this will change the entire game.

    and for the record, I am fine with the proposed changes because I do believe that they want the game to live its longest life possible, as do I....I just want more comms and the gear economy addressed in a meaningful way....
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    You can have “blind” beta testing where the people testing don’t know the requirements for being eligible access of the final mode/character/raid/thing. You can also use dummy graphics and names so that the beta testers don’t know what the new character or raid is. They’re only testing the balance of the mode or mechanics of the new character. These are just examples to illustrate the concept of beta testing sensitive content publicly. Of course we always have NDAs as well, it’s standard practice, but if someone wants to leak info the NDA doesn’t really help after the cat is out of the bag.

    But then you risk not getting good feedback, because they dont know all the details, that seems like a bad idea.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nick_74 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Looooki wrote: »
    Sooooo let's get this out of the way ...

    Has CG replied to any of the post yet ?
    Is Doja leaving CG ? Why the silence and crumb taking the lead ?
    When is the update dropping (Specific date)

    And I guess the most important question ??
    - what data is CG using to arrive at this conclusion in the road ahead ?

    Yes they have.

    No. Because 1 - he is the lead, 2 - a little bit of not our business, not being rude, just saying people have lives.

    No date yet.

    Testing on relic levels.
    I Can understand that you need to do some changes but I don’t get the many of the nerfs like Thrawn and C 3po, how can this be related to relic levels?

    Also if you read the comment it pretty clear that relic 9 is not wanted at this time especially since even the biggest whales are having a hard time reaching relic 8.

    If my personal income was depending of a game like this and I got such a massive negative feedback I would be very worried

    The defense ignoring and such is what is based on relic levels, some of the other changes were based on making/keeping GLs in the tip tier vs counters requiring lower investment (their words not me defending anything).

    There will always be conflict when it comes to pushing development and the pace that which it can happen. Just like good character levels, shouldn't high level relic be harder to get or take longer? (Not taling about the other pinch points along the way)

    The game is always dying, and each thing will always be the last straw. They look at the constructive feedback and they do their best to advocate for what they can when things like this happen. Unfortunately the player base is not always going to have the knowledge or wherewithal to gauge long term effects or future content/additions. Or the ability this may grant devs to make new toons at many levels more efficiently or possibly update older toons. This is not the players fault or anything like that, it's just the nature of being on the outside. I am also not saying this is right or the only way it could be. Or anything like that.

    Kyno nobody has issues with rebalancing due to interactions with defense. That’s fine. However based on crumbs posts and the RA video itself, it’s clear they’re doing this to also neutralize non GL counters. That’s not ok, especially when after over a hundred pages regarding SEE and troopers, posts about JML vs DR, etc all of it was deemed WAI and ok by the devs. They had given it the green light and people invested specifically for counters to GL’s. Now they’re actively taking that investment away.

    As for the gear crunch, sure the newest thing should be the hardest to obtain sure. Unfortunately there’s hasn’t been any alleviation from GEAR 8 gear crunches… when getting from g8 to G12 is still an insufferable grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from G12 to G13 is still an insufferable grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from G13 to R7 is still a massive grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from R7 to R8 is a huge resource sink and only several months old, more progression is not ok. Getting from R8 to R9 is going to be a massive resource dump if R8 is any indication, and what’s more they keep forcing us to use the same relic materials all the way from R1 through R8. Every single piece is the same beyond R5. Carbonite boards, bronzium wiring, chromium transistors, heatsinks, electrium conductors, zimbiddles and of course the signal data’s….that’s just relic.

    Come on Kyno, I get you defending them as par the course but there’s nothing you can say to justify even more progression when G8 gear is still an issue 5 years into the game.

    I was specifically speaking to the player talking about intro of 9 when 8 is hard to get and expressed that, but that's for ignoring that and saying I am in any way defending anything about gear levels. Cheers.

    And I touched on that. R8 to R9 should still be difficult. Even getting to R8 should be tougher but any other mobile game in existence, even MSF with how money hungry and greedy they are have made gear progression easier as your time in the game goes on. Blue and purple gear? Used to be massive choke points like their G13 uniques and G15 currently are. Now? Purple gear is nothing. Getting to G12 is only bottlenecked by gold and training mats; which one will more available than the other, balancing it out over time.

    CG hasn’t done that. At all. They’ve actually made the grind from G8-g13 worse with the introduction of kyro techs. Another 2 gear pieces to farm under the guise of it “alleviating the stun gun crunch” lmao nope, still there! Just worse now.

    What you’re missing the point on even with the person you were talking to is that it’s not an issue of a several month old gear level being hard to obtain. It’s a 5 year old gear issue still being a massive choke point.

    I’m sorry but listening to crumb dance around the question regarding the gear economy in that podcast was the most disingenuous and maddening thing from that whole segment. He’s literally saying that they know how to get more gear to us but don’t want to because they don’t want to completely lose those bottlenecks at lower levels over time. Excuse me? I get keeping those bottlenecks in place so new accounts don’t just gear up in one week, but players that have been in the game for a year or two, let alone since day one, should not be unable to bring characters to G12 with little inconvenience given the bottlenecks still in place at G12, G12+, G13 and every relic level.

    But you are wrong, they have dealt with it "naturally" like they said they are sticking to, at the moment. That is why we have increased income of many pieces over time. Yes this was been fairly in line with the need, which keeps the pace where it is, but that is also needed. We have not slowed in any of these incomes which would be a sign of them not doing anything to address this.

    I am also disheartened by the direct statement that we will not see more of a distinct action to deal with gear (although I have been suspecting as such from the discussions I have had/seen), but I still think there are still possibilities for them to deal with this through existing game modes.

    I have not listened yet, but I get that, they still want a development cycle in the early stages like we had then.

    Also, their “natural” fixes haven’t done anything to specifically target gear crunches that are hindering us all. Crumb mentioned Conquest and GC’s….umm no that doesn’t guarantee even crunch gear rewarded when you have mk4 carbs and guns in the prize boxes and nerf the rewards as you progress rather than reward more. Same for GC’s as that’s more tuned for mod slicing materials.

    What natural things? The daily prize box? I’m sorry I think it’s been almost a month since I saw mk5 guns, mk3 cuffs or mk8 biotech as a prize from there.

    Kyro’s? That made the gear grind WORSE. Not better

    Raid rewards? The same tank rewards in both HAAT and HSTR? Mk6 thermals? Mk4 holodiscs. Mk10 and 11 weapontechs? To this day the best rewards are in the normal Rancor Raids. Crancor is a mixed bag because you could end up with G5 gear or something as great as fully crafted mk5 gun or kyro templates. However to this day I’ve gotten none of that. The best I got was fully crafted G12 gear like the mk12 blast armor.

    Where’s the natural help?



    How to actually fix it?

    Daily challenge rewards? Oh look a solution….

    Guaranteeing gear drops or upping the drop rates? I mean….that could work too.

    Reworking prize boxes in current game modes? That could work too

    There’s several ways for the to do it. They can do it. What they lack is will or the capacity

    How early does a player get r3 or r5? Having enough characters to do daily challenges doeant really sound like a later stage of a roster.

    What current prize boxes have an sort of real divide? Basically Conquest is the only one.

    There are not several ways that actually offer any divide, which is what they seem to be looking for.

    Ahnald has a completely F2P account that’s 9 months old and has only 2 toons at R5. He has 3 or 4 more at G12 and the rest are scattered gear levels. He said it’ll be at least a couple
    More months before he will have a full team of g13 characters. So to get enough toons for those next level of daily challenges, it would take 18-24 months to get enough toons for those levels. You mean after 2 years players shouldn’t have access to relief from the G8 through g11 gear crunch?

    At what GP?

    Also, if there is a place to make it easier to get past a punch point, those will likely be added to a planned farming guide and be happening quicker than the estimate there. Also, once you hit one team, it makes getting the rest of the toons get there quicker, which is something they would need to balance in a situation like this.

    Not saying it's not a possibility, but it's not "oh just do this" simple, like you say it is.

    We also dont know where they really want that line to be. I suspect it's more GP than time based, but that is a guess, and I suspect Conquest will be used,as it's new and has a threshold.

    Umm no that’s not true. For the daily challenges you need tanks, attackers and support/healers for each one respectively. A full team of 5 has a mixture of both. You need 15 toons to handle those challenges.

    Also I believe he is at 1 mil GP just about because he is specifically farming for SLKR, he only has KRU and Hux at R5. OGKylo, FOTP and FOSTP are G12. All others are G11 through G8 for FO. The rest of his roster I believe is around G9/10. That’s after almost a year with dedicated F2P farming. You mean to tell me he’s gonna get 15 toons to R3 by years end? Stahp. That’s him not spending a dime. Can others get there faster? Sure, if they spend. Which…isn’t there the point?

    We all know where CG wants the crunch to be at. This dancing around the question is old. And I mean OLD. That’s why I’m seeing people on here, including myself who spent a fair amount of money on this game go F2P over this. I’m glad. I sincerely hope this affects their bottom dollar enough where they finally wake up and cut the nonsense already.

    I’m not going to pay my hard earned money on a game where my monetary and in game investments are trivialized by arbitrary nonsense and constant flip flopping policy on their end. I can’t tell you how happy I am that I waited to splurge on my 4th GL to see what Lord Vader had in store for us. Saved myself quite a bit of coin.

    I am aware how they work, how many attackers are in the SLKR requirements, and I dont think they have a requirement on the number of toons, but they could add that.

    So once you break open that door, you are accelerating farming right there at that point. Again, just saying those in particular are not as simple as you make it seem, but we can move on.

    Yes that’s the point, once you reach a certain point in your roster development, specific gear should be easier to get. You do realize the mk3 carbs are in various locations including the daily challenges and that’s still a choke point in gear farming l, albeit very lower compared to other gear pieces?
    You mean to tell me that putting Mk5 stun guns in the tank challenge, mk3 cuffs in the support/healer challenge and mk8 biotech components in the attacker challenge at that relic level entry is too much? You’d literally be bringing those 3 gear pieces on par with mk3 carbantis. Would it be an immediate roster boost to G12? No you still need to pick and choose where to use that gear and on who but it alleviates the gear crunch up to G12. You’d still have G12, G12+, G12 finishers and all the relic materials as your choke points….how is that not only creating the jumping divide point they’d want, or making it too easy to get too much gear too early….my lord I feel like I’m talking to a wall here whether it’s you or the dev team and their instance in acting like all is fine

    But what if that point is different than you wsnt it to be, because you are putting it fairly early, which they seem to be saying they dont want to do. So again, just not as simple as you say.
  • With regards to the affected characters when used in a GL team, was the intent to make them less affective at countering other GL teams?

    Specifically, I use SEE along with Thrawn to be able to beat Rey. That's just the only way I know how to slow her down enough to work through all of the damage immunity and whirlwinds. It wasn't always effective but it works more consistently than the non-gl counter.

    With the changes to both Vader and Thrawn, I'm concerned that my Rey counter using SEE will no longer work. Where is the line in the sand between stopping a non-gl-counter and making a GL team less affective against other GLs? Or do I just have to unlock SLKR to have any hope of countering Rey?

    Please remember that even the GLs need an effective team. Or at least SEE and JML do. Not all GLs are capable of being immune to damage and dealing mass amounts of damage every few turns.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nick_74 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Looooki wrote: »
    Sooooo let's get this out of the way ...

    Has CG replied to any of the post yet ?
    Is Doja leaving CG ? Why the silence and crumb taking the lead ?
    When is the update dropping (Specific date)

    And I guess the most important question ??
    - what data is CG using to arrive at this conclusion in the road ahead ?

    Yes they have.

    No. Because 1 - he is the lead, 2 - a little bit of not our business, not being rude, just saying people have lives.

    No date yet.

    Testing on relic levels.
    I Can understand that you need to do some changes but I don’t get the many of the nerfs like Thrawn and C 3po, how can this be related to relic levels?

    Also if you read the comment it pretty clear that relic 9 is not wanted at this time especially since even the biggest whales are having a hard time reaching relic 8.

    If my personal income was depending of a game like this and I got such a massive negative feedback I would be very worried

    The defense ignoring and such is what is based on relic levels, some of the other changes were based on making/keeping GLs in the tip tier vs counters requiring lower investment (their words not me defending anything).

    There will always be conflict when it comes to pushing development and the pace that which it can happen. Just like good character levels, shouldn't high level relic be harder to get or take longer? (Not taling about the other pinch points along the way)

    The game is always dying, and each thing will always be the last straw. They look at the constructive feedback and they do their best to advocate for what they can when things like this happen. Unfortunately the player base is not always going to have the knowledge or wherewithal to gauge long term effects or future content/additions. Or the ability this may grant devs to make new toons at many levels more efficiently or possibly update older toons. This is not the players fault or anything like that, it's just the nature of being on the outside. I am also not saying this is right or the only way it could be. Or anything like that.

    Kyno nobody has issues with rebalancing due to interactions with defense. That’s fine. However based on crumbs posts and the RA video itself, it’s clear they’re doing this to also neutralize non GL counters. That’s not ok, especially when after over a hundred pages regarding SEE and troopers, posts about JML vs DR, etc all of it was deemed WAI and ok by the devs. They had given it the green light and people invested specifically for counters to GL’s. Now they’re actively taking that investment away.

    As for the gear crunch, sure the newest thing should be the hardest to obtain sure. Unfortunately there’s hasn’t been any alleviation from GEAR 8 gear crunches… when getting from g8 to G12 is still an insufferable grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from G12 to G13 is still an insufferable grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from G13 to R7 is still a massive grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from R7 to R8 is a huge resource sink and only several months old, more progression is not ok. Getting from R8 to R9 is going to be a massive resource dump if R8 is any indication, and what’s more they keep forcing us to use the same relic materials all the way from R1 through R8. Every single piece is the same beyond R5. Carbonite boards, bronzium wiring, chromium transistors, heatsinks, electrium conductors, zimbiddles and of course the signal data’s….that’s just relic.

    Come on Kyno, I get you defending them as par the course but there’s nothing you can say to justify even more progression when G8 gear is still an issue 5 years into the game.

    I was specifically speaking to the player talking about intro of 9 when 8 is hard to get and expressed that, but that's for ignoring that and saying I am in any way defending anything about gear levels. Cheers.

    And I touched on that. R8 to R9 should still be difficult. Even getting to R8 should be tougher but any other mobile game in existence, even MSF with how money hungry and greedy they are have made gear progression easier as your time in the game goes on. Blue and purple gear? Used to be massive choke points like their G13 uniques and G15 currently are. Now? Purple gear is nothing. Getting to G12 is only bottlenecked by gold and training mats; which one will more available than the other, balancing it out over time.

    CG hasn’t done that. At all. They’ve actually made the grind from G8-g13 worse with the introduction of kyro techs. Another 2 gear pieces to farm under the guise of it “alleviating the stun gun crunch” lmao nope, still there! Just worse now.

    What you’re missing the point on even with the person you were talking to is that it’s not an issue of a several month old gear level being hard to obtain. It’s a 5 year old gear issue still being a massive choke point.

    I’m sorry but listening to crumb dance around the question regarding the gear economy in that podcast was the most disingenuous and maddening thing from that whole segment. He’s literally saying that they know how to get more gear to us but don’t want to because they don’t want to completely lose those bottlenecks at lower levels over time. Excuse me? I get keeping those bottlenecks in place so new accounts don’t just gear up in one week, but players that have been in the game for a year or two, let alone since day one, should not be unable to bring characters to G12 with little inconvenience given the bottlenecks still in place at G12, G12+, G13 and every relic level.

    But you are wrong, they have dealt with it "naturally" like they said they are sticking to, at the moment. That is why we have increased income of many pieces over time. Yes this was been fairly in line with the need, which keeps the pace where it is, but that is also needed. We have not slowed in any of these incomes which would be a sign of them not doing anything to address this.

    I am also disheartened by the direct statement that we will not see more of a distinct action to deal with gear (although I have been suspecting as such from the discussions I have had/seen), but I still think there are still possibilities for them to deal with this through existing game modes.

    I have not listened yet, but I get that, they still want a development cycle in the early stages like we had then.

    Also, their “natural” fixes haven’t done anything to specifically target gear crunches that are hindering us all. Crumb mentioned Conquest and GC’s….umm no that doesn’t guarantee even crunch gear rewarded when you have mk4 carbs and guns in the prize boxes and nerf the rewards as you progress rather than reward more. Same for GC’s as that’s more tuned for mod slicing materials.

    What natural things? The daily prize box? I’m sorry I think it’s been almost a month since I saw mk5 guns, mk3 cuffs or mk8 biotech as a prize from there.

    Kyro’s? That made the gear grind WORSE. Not better

    Raid rewards? The same tank rewards in both HAAT and HSTR? Mk6 thermals? Mk4 holodiscs. Mk10 and 11 weapontechs? To this day the best rewards are in the normal Rancor Raids. Crancor is a mixed bag because you could end up with G5 gear or something as great as fully crafted mk5 gun or kyro templates. However to this day I’ve gotten none of that. The best I got was fully crafted G12 gear like the mk12 blast armor.

    Where’s the natural help?



    How to actually fix it?

    Daily challenge rewards? Oh look a solution….

    Guaranteeing gear drops or upping the drop rates? I mean….that could work too.

    Reworking prize boxes in current game modes? That could work too

    There’s several ways for the to do it. They can do it. What they lack is will or the capacity

    How early does a player get r3 or r5? Having enough characters to do daily challenges doeant really sound like a later stage of a roster.

    What current prize boxes have an sort of real divide? Basically Conquest is the only one.

    There are not several ways that actually offer any divide, which is what they seem to be looking for.

    Ahnald has a completely F2P account that’s 9 months old and has only 2 toons at R5. He has 3 or 4 more at G12 and the rest are scattered gear levels. He said it’ll be at least a couple
    More months before he will have a full team of g13 characters. So to get enough toons for those next level of daily challenges, it would take 18-24 months to get enough toons for those levels. You mean after 2 years players shouldn’t have access to relief from the G8 through g11 gear crunch?

    At what GP?

    Also, if there is a place to make it easier to get past a punch point, those will likely be added to a planned farming guide and be happening quicker than the estimate there. Also, once you hit one team, it makes getting the rest of the toons get there quicker, which is something they would need to balance in a situation like this.

    Not saying it's not a possibility, but it's not "oh just do this" simple, like you say it is.

    We also dont know where they really want that line to be. I suspect it's more GP than time based, but that is a guess, and I suspect Conquest will be used,as it's new and has a threshold.

    Umm no that’s not true. For the daily challenges you need tanks, attackers and support/healers for each one respectively. A full team of 5 has a mixture of both. You need 15 toons to handle those challenges.

    Also I believe he is at 1 mil GP just about because he is specifically farming for SLKR, he only has KRU and Hux at R5. OGKylo, FOTP and FOSTP are G12. All others are G11 through G8 for FO. The rest of his roster I believe is around G9/10. That’s after almost a year with dedicated F2P farming. You mean to tell me he’s gonna get 15 toons to R3 by years end? Stahp. That’s him not spending a dime. Can others get there faster? Sure, if they spend. Which…isn’t there the point?

    We all know where CG wants the crunch to be at. This dancing around the question is old. And I mean OLD. That’s why I’m seeing people on here, including myself who spent a fair amount of money on this game go F2P over this. I’m glad. I sincerely hope this affects their bottom dollar enough where they finally wake up and cut the nonsense already.

    I’m not going to pay my hard earned money on a game where my monetary and in game investments are trivialized by arbitrary nonsense and constant flip flopping policy on their end. I can’t tell you how happy I am that I waited to splurge on my 4th GL to see what Lord Vader had in store for us. Saved myself quite a bit of coin.

    I am aware how they work, how many attackers are in the SLKR requirements, and I dont think they have a requirement on the number of toons, but they could add that.

    So once you break open that door, you are accelerating farming right there at that point. Again, just saying those in particular are not as simple as you make it seem, but we can move on.

    Yes that’s the point, once you reach a certain point in your roster development, specific gear should be easier to get. You do realize the mk3 carbs are in various locations including the daily challenges and that’s still a choke point in gear farming l, albeit very lower compared to other gear pieces?
    You mean to tell me that putting Mk5 stun guns in the tank challenge, mk3 cuffs in the support/healer challenge and mk8 biotech components in the attacker challenge at that relic level entry is too much? You’d literally be bringing those 3 gear pieces on par with mk3 carbantis. Would it be an immediate roster boost to G12? No you still need to pick and choose where to use that gear and on who but it alleviates the gear crunch up to G12. You’d still have G12, G12+, G12 finishers and all the relic materials as your choke points….how is that not only creating the jumping divide point they’d want, or making it too easy to get too much gear too early….my lord I feel like I’m talking to a wall here whether it’s you or the dev team and their instance in acting like all is fine

    But what if that point is different than you wsnt it to be, because you are putting it fairly early, which they seem to be saying they dont want to do. So again, just not as simple as you say.

    How is that easy to require 15 characters at R3? Unless you drop a ton of money on a new account (a win for CG) it will take you at least 2 years to get to that point. Even if you bought the hyperdrive bundle maybe that cuts you down to 18 months. Maybe!

    If you’re saying CG doesn’t want to ease up day one crunches even a little then they’ve been lying to us for awhile when they’ve said they’re going to change things. Adding 50-60 of those pieces per week (what you currently get with Mk3 carbs) is not breaking the economy, if it did I would be flush with those. As it stands I’m always running short on those but I can refill it quicker. See? Balance.

    There’s other options too like making guaranteed slots in stores for those gear types. There’s a finite number of GET, Guild and GAC currency to go around.

    I’m sorry they’ve done nothing meaningful to ease the gear crunch since day one. Whenever we get any kind of minute relief they stack on another gear progression requiring the same type of gear or release characters requiring so much more of the same.

    Their big relief was adding kyros to the game? HA! They made the gear crunch worse. They actually made the gear economy worse with the introduction of kyros. Every single character requires no less than 200 pieces of kyro (both pads and prods combined) and usually more. They also still require cuffs, guns, carbs and biotech salavge.

    They’re out of excuses Kyno. They backed themselves into a corner with this dancing around the gear economy. There’s absolutely nothing they can tell us that would have an ounce of truth to it when it’s been 9 months since they said they’re actively looking at the gear economy long and hard. After 9 months they have nothing? Yeah, ok. Sure. 👌🏻

    1 event does not require 15 toons. I am not saying that they couldnt work out some plan using challenges, just pointing out that the whole "just do it" doesnt account for all the details they would focus on, and doesnt create the separation they seem to be looking for.

    I am not making any excuses, just pointing out details that dont make this simple.

    I have not said they dont want to, they have said they want to and will do it in an existing event, and not with a new event or an overhaul to the system like the chards got.

    I'm sure you have all the details and understand the economic balance they are trying to hit, while also keeping the line they want to keep....

    If they did nothing it would be worse, and honestly it's not, despite the higher need. They have been jeeping it neutral which requires action, and as you develop and manage your resources, you can use that to your advantage.
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