[MEGA] Road Ahead: July 2021

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  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
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    Looooki wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nick_74 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Looooki wrote: »
    Sooooo let's get this out of the way ...

    Has CG replied to any of the post yet ?
    Is Doja leaving CG ? Why the silence and crumb taking the lead ?
    When is the update dropping (Specific date)

    And I guess the most important question ??
    - what data is CG using to arrive at this conclusion in the road ahead ?

    Yes they have.

    No. Because 1 - he is the lead, 2 - a little bit of not our business, not being rude, just saying people have lives.

    No date yet.

    Testing on relic levels.
    I Can understand that you need to do some changes but I don’t get the many of the nerfs like Thrawn and C 3po, how can this be related to relic levels?

    Also if you read the comment it pretty clear that relic 9 is not wanted at this time especially since even the biggest whales are having a hard time reaching relic 8.

    If my personal income was depending of a game like this and I got such a massive negative feedback I would be very worried

    The defense ignoring and such is what is based on relic levels, some of the other changes were based on making/keeping GLs in the tip tier vs counters requiring lower investment (their words not me defending anything).

    There will always be conflict when it comes to pushing development and the pace that which it can happen. Just like good character levels, shouldn't high level relic be harder to get or take longer? (Not taling about the other pinch points along the way)

    The game is always dying, and each thing will always be the last straw. They look at the constructive feedback and they do their best to advocate for what they can when things like this happen. Unfortunately the player base is not always going to have the knowledge or wherewithal to gauge long term effects or future content/additions. Or the ability this may grant devs to make new toons at many levels more efficiently or possibly update older toons. This is not the players fault or anything like that, it's just the nature of being on the outside. I am also not saying this is right or the only way it could be. Or anything like that.

    Kyno nobody has issues with rebalancing due to interactions with defense. That’s fine. However based on crumbs posts and the RA video itself, it’s clear they’re doing this to also neutralize non GL counters. That’s not ok, especially when after over a hundred pages regarding SEE and troopers, posts about JML vs DR, etc all of it was deemed WAI and ok by the devs. They had given it the green light and people invested specifically for counters to GL’s. Now they’re actively taking that investment away.

    As for the gear crunch, sure the newest thing should be the hardest to obtain sure. Unfortunately there’s hasn’t been any alleviation from GEAR 8 gear crunches… when getting from g8 to G12 is still an insufferable grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from G12 to G13 is still an insufferable grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from G13 to R7 is still a massive grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from R7 to R8 is a huge resource sink and only several months old, more progression is not ok. Getting from R8 to R9 is going to be a massive resource dump if R8 is any indication, and what’s more they keep forcing us to use the same relic materials all the way from R1 through R8. Every single piece is the same beyond R5. Carbonite boards, bronzium wiring, chromium transistors, heatsinks, electrium conductors, zimbiddles and of course the signal data’s….that’s just relic.

    Come on Kyno, I get you defending them as par the course but there’s nothing you can say to justify even more progression when G8 gear is still an issue 5 years into the game.

    I was specifically speaking to the player talking about intro of 9 when 8 is hard to get and expressed that, but that's for ignoring that and saying I am in any way defending anything about gear levels. Cheers.

    And I touched on that. R8 to R9 should still be difficult. Even getting to R8 should be tougher but any other mobile game in existence, even MSF with how money hungry and greedy they are have made gear progression easier as your time in the game goes on. Blue and purple gear? Used to be massive choke points like their G13 uniques and G15 currently are. Now? Purple gear is nothing. Getting to G12 is only bottlenecked by gold and training mats; which one will more available than the other, balancing it out over time.

    CG hasn’t done that. At all. They’ve actually made the grind from G8-g13 worse with the introduction of kyro techs. Another 2 gear pieces to farm under the guise of it “alleviating the stun gun crunch” lmao nope, still there! Just worse now.

    What you’re missing the point on even with the person you were talking to is that it’s not an issue of a several month old gear level being hard to obtain. It’s a 5 year old gear issue still being a massive choke point.

    I’m sorry but listening to crumb dance around the question regarding the gear economy in that podcast was the most disingenuous and maddening thing from that whole segment. He’s literally saying that they know how to get more gear to us but don’t want to because they don’t want to completely lose those bottlenecks at lower levels over time. Excuse me? I get keeping those bottlenecks in place so new accounts don’t just gear up in one week, but players that have been in the game for a year or two, let alone since day one, should not be unable to bring characters to G12 with little inconvenience given the bottlenecks still in place at G12, G12+, G13 and every relic level.

    But you are wrong, they have dealt with it "naturally" like they said they are sticking to, at the moment. That is why we have increased income of many pieces over time. Yes this was been fairly in line with the need, which keeps the pace where it is, but that is also needed. We have not slowed in any of these incomes which would be a sign of them not doing anything to address this.

    I am also disheartened by the direct statement that we will not see more of a distinct action to deal with gear (although I have been suspecting as such from the discussions I have had/seen), but I still think there are still possibilities for them to deal with this through existing game modes.

    I have not listened yet, but I get that, they still want a development cycle in the early stages like we had then.

    Also, their “natural” fixes haven’t done anything to specifically target gear crunches that are hindering us all. Crumb mentioned Conquest and GC’s….umm no that doesn’t guarantee even crunch gear rewarded when you have mk4 carbs and guns in the prize boxes and nerf the rewards as you progress rather than reward more. Same for GC’s as that’s more tuned for mod slicing materials.

    What natural things? The daily prize box? I’m sorry I think it’s been almost a month since I saw mk5 guns, mk3 cuffs or mk8 biotech as a prize from there.

    Kyro’s? That made the gear grind WORSE. Not better

    Raid rewards? The same tank rewards in both HAAT and HSTR? Mk6 thermals? Mk4 holodiscs. Mk10 and 11 weapontechs? To this day the best rewards are in the normal Rancor Raids. Crancor is a mixed bag because you could end up with G5 gear or something as great as fully crafted mk5 gun or kyro templates. However to this day I’ve gotten none of that. The best I got was fully crafted G12 gear like the mk12 blast armor.

    Where’s the natural help?



    How to actually fix it?

    Daily challenge rewards? Oh look a solution….

    Guaranteeing gear drops or upping the drop rates? I mean….that could work too.

    Reworking prize boxes in current game modes? That could work too

    There’s several ways for the to do it. They can do it. What they lack is will or the capacity

    How early does a player get r3 or r5? Having enough characters to do daily challenges doeant really sound like a later stage of a roster.

    What current prize boxes have an sort of real divide? Basically Conquest is the only one.

    There are not several ways that actually offer any divide, which is what they seem to be looking for.

    Just something off topic but still related to Gear Crunch. How abt CRancor ? They said they will flatten the reward structure. How has that turned out ? And CRancor is something new.

    Ok back to topic. Daily challenges should be updated, along with arena shop etc.

    Daily challenges can have a newer tier with better rewards

    Shops should be updated with current gear that is needed (add a cap if you want to stop people from hording)

    All these can be done by scaling up the difficulty. Is only a matter of does CG want to do it or not.

    Before someone stone me to death, CG has done this before. Take CRancor as an example. A reskin of the original rancor but much higher difficulty and "better gear" rewards.

    I agree there are many places they could add things to help with the pinch points. It seems they want to have it done in a way that doesnt just remove it all together and that there is some transition point, and they want to use existing modes. Sure this can be done, and sure it doesnt seem to be the highest priority, since it hasn't happened yet, but the current system is manageable and for some there is a level of understanding there.

    In the end changes will happen, and we will see how they want that transition to happen and at what point in development that falls. It is likely to not be a simple solution or as simple as some feel it should be, but we shall see.
  • Ravens1113
    5215 posts Member
    Options
    Kyno wrote: »
    Looooki wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nick_74 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Looooki wrote: »
    Sooooo let's get this out of the way ...

    Has CG replied to any of the post yet ?
    Is Doja leaving CG ? Why the silence and crumb taking the lead ?
    When is the update dropping (Specific date)

    And I guess the most important question ??
    - what data is CG using to arrive at this conclusion in the road ahead ?

    Yes they have.

    No. Because 1 - he is the lead, 2 - a little bit of not our business, not being rude, just saying people have lives.

    No date yet.

    Testing on relic levels.
    I Can understand that you need to do some changes but I don’t get the many of the nerfs like Thrawn and C 3po, how can this be related to relic levels?

    Also if you read the comment it pretty clear that relic 9 is not wanted at this time especially since even the biggest whales are having a hard time reaching relic 8.

    If my personal income was depending of a game like this and I got such a massive negative feedback I would be very worried

    The defense ignoring and such is what is based on relic levels, some of the other changes were based on making/keeping GLs in the tip tier vs counters requiring lower investment (their words not me defending anything).

    There will always be conflict when it comes to pushing development and the pace that which it can happen. Just like good character levels, shouldn't high level relic be harder to get or take longer? (Not taling about the other pinch points along the way)

    The game is always dying, and each thing will always be the last straw. They look at the constructive feedback and they do their best to advocate for what they can when things like this happen. Unfortunately the player base is not always going to have the knowledge or wherewithal to gauge long term effects or future content/additions. Or the ability this may grant devs to make new toons at many levels more efficiently or possibly update older toons. This is not the players fault or anything like that, it's just the nature of being on the outside. I am also not saying this is right or the only way it could be. Or anything like that.

    Kyno nobody has issues with rebalancing due to interactions with defense. That’s fine. However based on crumbs posts and the RA video itself, it’s clear they’re doing this to also neutralize non GL counters. That’s not ok, especially when after over a hundred pages regarding SEE and troopers, posts about JML vs DR, etc all of it was deemed WAI and ok by the devs. They had given it the green light and people invested specifically for counters to GL’s. Now they’re actively taking that investment away.

    As for the gear crunch, sure the newest thing should be the hardest to obtain sure. Unfortunately there’s hasn’t been any alleviation from GEAR 8 gear crunches… when getting from g8 to G12 is still an insufferable grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from G12 to G13 is still an insufferable grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from G13 to R7 is still a massive grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from R7 to R8 is a huge resource sink and only several months old, more progression is not ok. Getting from R8 to R9 is going to be a massive resource dump if R8 is any indication, and what’s more they keep forcing us to use the same relic materials all the way from R1 through R8. Every single piece is the same beyond R5. Carbonite boards, bronzium wiring, chromium transistors, heatsinks, electrium conductors, zimbiddles and of course the signal data’s….that’s just relic.

    Come on Kyno, I get you defending them as par the course but there’s nothing you can say to justify even more progression when G8 gear is still an issue 5 years into the game.

    I was specifically speaking to the player talking about intro of 9 when 8 is hard to get and expressed that, but that's for ignoring that and saying I am in any way defending anything about gear levels. Cheers.

    And I touched on that. R8 to R9 should still be difficult. Even getting to R8 should be tougher but any other mobile game in existence, even MSF with how money hungry and greedy they are have made gear progression easier as your time in the game goes on. Blue and purple gear? Used to be massive choke points like their G13 uniques and G15 currently are. Now? Purple gear is nothing. Getting to G12 is only bottlenecked by gold and training mats; which one will more available than the other, balancing it out over time.

    CG hasn’t done that. At all. They’ve actually made the grind from G8-g13 worse with the introduction of kyro techs. Another 2 gear pieces to farm under the guise of it “alleviating the stun gun crunch” lmao nope, still there! Just worse now.

    What you’re missing the point on even with the person you were talking to is that it’s not an issue of a several month old gear level being hard to obtain. It’s a 5 year old gear issue still being a massive choke point.

    I’m sorry but listening to crumb dance around the question regarding the gear economy in that podcast was the most disingenuous and maddening thing from that whole segment. He’s literally saying that they know how to get more gear to us but don’t want to because they don’t want to completely lose those bottlenecks at lower levels over time. Excuse me? I get keeping those bottlenecks in place so new accounts don’t just gear up in one week, but players that have been in the game for a year or two, let alone since day one, should not be unable to bring characters to G12 with little inconvenience given the bottlenecks still in place at G12, G12+, G13 and every relic level.

    But you are wrong, they have dealt with it "naturally" like they said they are sticking to, at the moment. That is why we have increased income of many pieces over time. Yes this was been fairly in line with the need, which keeps the pace where it is, but that is also needed. We have not slowed in any of these incomes which would be a sign of them not doing anything to address this.

    I am also disheartened by the direct statement that we will not see more of a distinct action to deal with gear (although I have been suspecting as such from the discussions I have had/seen), but I still think there are still possibilities for them to deal with this through existing game modes.

    I have not listened yet, but I get that, they still want a development cycle in the early stages like we had then.

    Also, their “natural” fixes haven’t done anything to specifically target gear crunches that are hindering us all. Crumb mentioned Conquest and GC’s….umm no that doesn’t guarantee even crunch gear rewarded when you have mk4 carbs and guns in the prize boxes and nerf the rewards as you progress rather than reward more. Same for GC’s as that’s more tuned for mod slicing materials.

    What natural things? The daily prize box? I’m sorry I think it’s been almost a month since I saw mk5 guns, mk3 cuffs or mk8 biotech as a prize from there.

    Kyro’s? That made the gear grind WORSE. Not better

    Raid rewards? The same tank rewards in both HAAT and HSTR? Mk6 thermals? Mk4 holodiscs. Mk10 and 11 weapontechs? To this day the best rewards are in the normal Rancor Raids. Crancor is a mixed bag because you could end up with G5 gear or something as great as fully crafted mk5 gun or kyro templates. However to this day I’ve gotten none of that. The best I got was fully crafted G12 gear like the mk12 blast armor.

    Where’s the natural help?



    How to actually fix it?

    Daily challenge rewards? Oh look a solution….

    Guaranteeing gear drops or upping the drop rates? I mean….that could work too.

    Reworking prize boxes in current game modes? That could work too

    There’s several ways for the to do it. They can do it. What they lack is will or the capacity

    How early does a player get r3 or r5? Having enough characters to do daily challenges doeant really sound like a later stage of a roster.

    What current prize boxes have an sort of real divide? Basically Conquest is the only one.

    There are not several ways that actually offer any divide, which is what they seem to be looking for.

    Just something off topic but still related to Gear Crunch. How abt CRancor ? They said they will flatten the reward structure. How has that turned out ? And CRancor is something new.

    Ok back to topic. Daily challenges should be updated, along with arena shop etc.

    Daily challenges can have a newer tier with better rewards

    Shops should be updated with current gear that is needed (add a cap if you want to stop people from hording)

    All these can be done by scaling up the difficulty. Is only a matter of does CG want to do it or not.

    Before someone stone me to death, CG has done this before. Take CRancor as an example. A reskin of the original rancor but much higher difficulty and "better gear" rewards.

    I agree there are many places they could add things to help with the pinch points. It seems they want to have it done in a way that doesnt just remove it all together and that there is some transition point, and they want to use existing modes. Sure this can be done, and sure it doesnt seem to be the highest priority, since it hasn't happened yet, but the current system is manageable and for some there is a level of understanding there.

    In the end changes will happen, and we will see how they want that transition to happen and at what point in development that falls. It is likely to not be a simple solution or as simple as some feel it should be, but we shall see.

    So you agree? There are day one gear bottlenecks that should be taken care of? There are many ways that they can do this, but they just have chosen to do nothing about it? Meaning that the whole podcast dance Crumb just pulled was a fallacy.

    Kyno, honestly the community is tired of their excuses as to why the gear economy is in the state it’s in. The system is not manageable anymore as they further require R8 as basic entry points to unlock units now. They’ve had almost a year since they claimed that they’re taking a hard and more in depth look at the gear economy. It takes longer than that? Ok, because they’ve known this was an issue for longer than that and still have refused to do something about it.

    There’s no excuse anymore. They can’t keep claiming they don’t know how to fix it after how long it’s been an issue. The economy needs rebalancing. Bottlenecks are totally fine in the game for the newest and even relatively new thing. Day one gear? Sorry but any other mobile game in existence similar to this one has relieved day one hour points as new gear progression is announced and implemented
  • Csonkagi
    5 posts Member
    edited July 2021
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    I would like to see the Galactic Conquest starting on the 1st of August as it was advertised. Please do your duty. No sign of Galactic Conquest, so you broke your promise again. Also, it is very annoying to wait for many days for the rewards after completing the Conquest. For true digital wellbeing please start the Conquests on the first day of the month and give the rewards as soon as the Conquest is completed.
  • Options
    How are you addressing the changes to the JML squad? GAS and JKL are receiving changes, will there be any buffs to JML? Feel his team is getting severely hurt by these kit changes.
  • Options
    Relic 9 Timing:

    Relic 9 is further out and will be coming to the game after the character changes are implemented, not before. We’ll share more details on R9 as it gets closer. Having said that, the character changes needed to happen before R9, otherwise the underlying issues surrounding defense being ignored would only be exasperated.

    The problem with relic 9 is how difficult it is, to even take a character up to gear 12! Last year you made us get tons of g13's for the new Galactic Legends, which was super difficult, but manageable. Now, you are making us get toons to relic EIGHT which is insanely difficult for even the whales and krakens, not to mention all the players like me who don't even have the possibility of getting a relic 8 because it's so hard to get. And now you're going to make us get RELIC NINE when it already takes months to gear one team to 12/13???

    Make it easier to get someone to g12 and this change will be okay. But right now it is just too hard. I get this is a long term game, but this is getting crazy. Make it way easier to get the gear like stun guns, carbantis, stun cuffs, kyrotechs, etc. etc.
  • Options
    Dear Crumb and Doja, Please write this on every mirror in the bathrooms at CG:

    FIX THE GEAR ECONOMY SO G12 IS NOT SUCH A HEADACHE!!!!

    I don't feel like myself and the community are asking for much when we say this. Relics are hard enough to get on their own but just g8 to g9 is still a choking point and in a 5 year old game it simply SHOULD NOT BE. My just over 4 mil alt and my just under 7 mil main should NOT be struggling for the same gear pieces. My main is in a larger gulid, runs all the high end content, does well at all of it (red box every time in conquest, frequent top 5-10 in Cpit and HSith) and yet STILL struggles with stun guns and golden eyeballs and stun cuffs.

    And while we're continuing to endure this stranglehold the devs have on the gear in the game, you're talking about r9. I had to blow loads of gear just to get impulse detectors for GMY and GK to hit r8 for JMK's reqs. They're my 2nd and 3rd r8s (I only have 3). I have hardly any gear for the remaining 3 toons I need to finish. And you're now talking r9? Do the devs know they sound tone deaf on this gear issue? And that announcing r9 feels like they really don't get the weight of the gear crunch on us players?

    Because that's exactly how they come across and what makes so many players angry.

    Crumb and Doja, please read this again.
  • Jayngo
    87 posts Member
    Options
    Just saw the comments made by the devs in response to our concerns.

    My biggest issue is that I don't care for the GLs. I don't care for the Sequels. Why you wouldn't start with the OT is my biggest problem with this. A Vader and Jedi Luke should have been the first GLs imo.

    Because I don't care for the sequels I had zero desire to farm the first wave of GLs, and now thanks to your changes I'm going to be even further behind the curve.

    I've been playing this game since day one and I've seen a lot of bad and good changes to this game as it's grown. But this change is by far the worst idea you've have. It feels motivated by greed and only a way to appeal to the krakens.

    I won't even go into the fact that I've spent money for Wat shards and he's about to get nerfed.

    Shame on you CG. I feel cheated.
  • Options
    Dear Crumb and Doja, Please write this on every mirror in the bathrooms at CG:

    FIX THE GEAR ECONOMY SO G12 IS NOT SUCH A HEADACHE!!!!

    I don't feel like myself and the community are asking for much when we say this. Relics are hard enough to get on their own but just g8 to g9 is still a choking point and in a 5 year old game it simply SHOULD NOT BE. My just over 4 mil alt and my just under 7 mil main should NOT be struggling for the same gear pieces. My main is in a larger gulid, runs all the high end content, does well at all of it (red box every time in conquest, frequent top 5-10 in Cpit and HSith) and yet STILL struggles with stun guns and golden eyeballs and stun cuffs.

    And while we're continuing to endure this stranglehold the devs have on the gear in the game, you're talking about r9. I had to blow loads of gear just to get impulse detectors for GMY and GK to hit r8 for JMK's reqs. They're my 2nd and 3rd r8s (I only have 3). I have hardly any gear for the remaining 3 toons I need to finish. And you're now talking r9? Do the devs know they sound tone deaf on this gear issue? And that announcing r9 feels like they really don't get the weight of the gear crunch on us players?

    Because that's exactly how they come across and what makes so many players angry.

    Crumb and Doja, please read this again.

    and passed it up to the Dev team or bean counters or whoever makes these decisions.. it's time to stop dancing around the issue.. Stop ignoring the gear issue and get it fixed
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Options
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Looooki wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nick_74 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Looooki wrote: »
    Sooooo let's get this out of the way ...

    Has CG replied to any of the post yet ?
    Is Doja leaving CG ? Why the silence and crumb taking the lead ?
    When is the update dropping (Specific date)

    And I guess the most important question ??
    - what data is CG using to arrive at this conclusion in the road ahead ?

    Yes they have.

    No. Because 1 - he is the lead, 2 - a little bit of not our business, not being rude, just saying people have lives.

    No date yet.

    Testing on relic levels.
    I Can understand that you need to do some changes but I don’t get the many of the nerfs like Thrawn and C 3po, how can this be related to relic levels?

    Also if you read the comment it pretty clear that relic 9 is not wanted at this time especially since even the biggest whales are having a hard time reaching relic 8.

    If my personal income was depending of a game like this and I got such a massive negative feedback I would be very worried

    The defense ignoring and such is what is based on relic levels, some of the other changes were based on making/keeping GLs in the tip tier vs counters requiring lower investment (their words not me defending anything).

    There will always be conflict when it comes to pushing development and the pace that which it can happen. Just like good character levels, shouldn't high level relic be harder to get or take longer? (Not taling about the other pinch points along the way)

    The game is always dying, and each thing will always be the last straw. They look at the constructive feedback and they do their best to advocate for what they can when things like this happen. Unfortunately the player base is not always going to have the knowledge or wherewithal to gauge long term effects or future content/additions. Or the ability this may grant devs to make new toons at many levels more efficiently or possibly update older toons. This is not the players fault or anything like that, it's just the nature of being on the outside. I am also not saying this is right or the only way it could be. Or anything like that.

    Kyno nobody has issues with rebalancing due to interactions with defense. That’s fine. However based on crumbs posts and the RA video itself, it’s clear they’re doing this to also neutralize non GL counters. That’s not ok, especially when after over a hundred pages regarding SEE and troopers, posts about JML vs DR, etc all of it was deemed WAI and ok by the devs. They had given it the green light and people invested specifically for counters to GL’s. Now they’re actively taking that investment away.

    As for the gear crunch, sure the newest thing should be the hardest to obtain sure. Unfortunately there’s hasn’t been any alleviation from GEAR 8 gear crunches… when getting from g8 to G12 is still an insufferable grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from G12 to G13 is still an insufferable grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from G13 to R7 is still a massive grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from R7 to R8 is a huge resource sink and only several months old, more progression is not ok. Getting from R8 to R9 is going to be a massive resource dump if R8 is any indication, and what’s more they keep forcing us to use the same relic materials all the way from R1 through R8. Every single piece is the same beyond R5. Carbonite boards, bronzium wiring, chromium transistors, heatsinks, electrium conductors, zimbiddles and of course the signal data’s….that’s just relic.

    Come on Kyno, I get you defending them as par the course but there’s nothing you can say to justify even more progression when G8 gear is still an issue 5 years into the game.

    I was specifically speaking to the player talking about intro of 9 when 8 is hard to get and expressed that, but that's for ignoring that and saying I am in any way defending anything about gear levels. Cheers.

    And I touched on that. R8 to R9 should still be difficult. Even getting to R8 should be tougher but any other mobile game in existence, even MSF with how money hungry and greedy they are have made gear progression easier as your time in the game goes on. Blue and purple gear? Used to be massive choke points like their G13 uniques and G15 currently are. Now? Purple gear is nothing. Getting to G12 is only bottlenecked by gold and training mats; which one will more available than the other, balancing it out over time.

    CG hasn’t done that. At all. They’ve actually made the grind from G8-g13 worse with the introduction of kyro techs. Another 2 gear pieces to farm under the guise of it “alleviating the stun gun crunch” lmao nope, still there! Just worse now.

    What you’re missing the point on even with the person you were talking to is that it’s not an issue of a several month old gear level being hard to obtain. It’s a 5 year old gear issue still being a massive choke point.

    I’m sorry but listening to crumb dance around the question regarding the gear economy in that podcast was the most disingenuous and maddening thing from that whole segment. He’s literally saying that they know how to get more gear to us but don’t want to because they don’t want to completely lose those bottlenecks at lower levels over time. Excuse me? I get keeping those bottlenecks in place so new accounts don’t just gear up in one week, but players that have been in the game for a year or two, let alone since day one, should not be unable to bring characters to G12 with little inconvenience given the bottlenecks still in place at G12, G12+, G13 and every relic level.

    But you are wrong, they have dealt with it "naturally" like they said they are sticking to, at the moment. That is why we have increased income of many pieces over time. Yes this was been fairly in line with the need, which keeps the pace where it is, but that is also needed. We have not slowed in any of these incomes which would be a sign of them not doing anything to address this.

    I am also disheartened by the direct statement that we will not see more of a distinct action to deal with gear (although I have been suspecting as such from the discussions I have had/seen), but I still think there are still possibilities for them to deal with this through existing game modes.

    I have not listened yet, but I get that, they still want a development cycle in the early stages like we had then.

    Also, their “natural” fixes haven’t done anything to specifically target gear crunches that are hindering us all. Crumb mentioned Conquest and GC’s….umm no that doesn’t guarantee even crunch gear rewarded when you have mk4 carbs and guns in the prize boxes and nerf the rewards as you progress rather than reward more. Same for GC’s as that’s more tuned for mod slicing materials.

    What natural things? The daily prize box? I’m sorry I think it’s been almost a month since I saw mk5 guns, mk3 cuffs or mk8 biotech as a prize from there.

    Kyro’s? That made the gear grind WORSE. Not better

    Raid rewards? The same tank rewards in both HAAT and HSTR? Mk6 thermals? Mk4 holodiscs. Mk10 and 11 weapontechs? To this day the best rewards are in the normal Rancor Raids. Crancor is a mixed bag because you could end up with G5 gear or something as great as fully crafted mk5 gun or kyro templates. However to this day I’ve gotten none of that. The best I got was fully crafted G12 gear like the mk12 blast armor.

    Where’s the natural help?



    How to actually fix it?

    Daily challenge rewards? Oh look a solution….

    Guaranteeing gear drops or upping the drop rates? I mean….that could work too.

    Reworking prize boxes in current game modes? That could work too

    There’s several ways for the to do it. They can do it. What they lack is will or the capacity

    How early does a player get r3 or r5? Having enough characters to do daily challenges doeant really sound like a later stage of a roster.

    What current prize boxes have an sort of real divide? Basically Conquest is the only one.

    There are not several ways that actually offer any divide, which is what they seem to be looking for.

    Just something off topic but still related to Gear Crunch. How abt CRancor ? They said they will flatten the reward structure. How has that turned out ? And CRancor is something new.

    Ok back to topic. Daily challenges should be updated, along with arena shop etc.

    Daily challenges can have a newer tier with better rewards

    Shops should be updated with current gear that is needed (add a cap if you want to stop people from hording)

    All these can be done by scaling up the difficulty. Is only a matter of does CG want to do it or not.

    Before someone stone me to death, CG has done this before. Take CRancor as an example. A reskin of the original rancor but much higher difficulty and "better gear" rewards.

    I agree there are many places they could add things to help with the pinch points. It seems they want to have it done in a way that doesnt just remove it all together and that there is some transition point, and they want to use existing modes. Sure this can be done, and sure it doesnt seem to be the highest priority, since it hasn't happened yet, but the current system is manageable and for some there is a level of understanding there.

    In the end changes will happen, and we will see how they want that transition to happen and at what point in development that falls. It is likely to not be a simple solution or as simple as some feel it should be, but we shall see.

    So you agree? There are day one gear bottlenecks that should be taken care of? There are many ways that they can do this, but they just have chosen to do nothing about it? Meaning that the whole podcast dance Crumb just pulled was a fallacy.

    Kyno, honestly the community is tired of their excuses as to why the gear economy is in the state it’s in. The system is not manageable anymore as they further require R8 as basic entry points to unlock units now. They’ve had almost a year since they claimed that they’re taking a hard and more in depth look at the gear economy. It takes longer than that? Ok, because they’ve known this was an issue for longer than that and still have refused to do something about it.

    There’s no excuse anymore. They can’t keep claiming they don’t know how to fix it after how long it’s been an issue. The economy needs rebalancing. Bottlenecks are totally fine in the game for the newest and even relatively new thing. Day one gear? Sorry but any other mobile game in existence similar to this one has relieved day one hour points as new gear progression is announced and implemented

    When have I said there isnt a bottle neck, day one is debatable, but sure things that have been in the game since day one are on the list. We have been discussing how to fix it, so yes there are pinch points that players need to manage.

    Yes they have been dealing with and looking at the situation in many ways. They have been keeping it going, even with some level of increasing demand. Before and after the shard increase they looked at a similar overhaul or changes, and have seemingly concluded that this cannot happen and preserve the points they wish to, so they are looking at a different approach to satisfy all the points in a natural way.

    Please show me the quote where they said they do not know how to fix this.

    The economy as a whole is not going to be rebalanced, that is what they are saying.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
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    How are you addressing the changes to the JML squad? GAS and JKL are receiving changes, will there be any buffs to JML? Feel his team is getting severely hurt by these kit changes.

    There are no additional plans to buff GLs besides what is stated. As some have pointed out with r9 being focused on tanks, that should help him, help his team.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
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    SotaDraken wrote: »
    Dear Crumb and Doja, Please write this on every mirror in the bathrooms at CG:

    FIX THE GEAR ECONOMY SO G12 IS NOT SUCH A HEADACHE!!!!

    I don't feel like myself and the community are asking for much when we say this. Relics are hard enough to get on their own but just g8 to g9 is still a choking point and in a 5 year old game it simply SHOULD NOT BE. My just over 4 mil alt and my just under 7 mil main should NOT be struggling for the same gear pieces. My main is in a larger gulid, runs all the high end content, does well at all of it (red box every time in conquest, frequent top 5-10 in Cpit and HSith) and yet STILL struggles with stun guns and golden eyeballs and stun cuffs.

    And while we're continuing to endure this stranglehold the devs have on the gear in the game, you're talking about r9. I had to blow loads of gear just to get impulse detectors for GMY and GK to hit r8 for JMK's reqs. They're my 2nd and 3rd r8s (I only have 3). I have hardly any gear for the remaining 3 toons I need to finish. And you're now talking r9? Do the devs know they sound tone deaf on this gear issue? And that announcing r9 feels like they really don't get the weight of the gear crunch on us players?

    Because that's exactly how they come across and what makes so many players angry.

    Crumb and Doja, please read this again.

    and passed it up to the Dev team or bean counters or whoever makes these decisions.. it's time to stop dancing around the issue.. Stop ignoring the gear issue and get it fixed

    Any fix is likely to be an iterative process through current game modes.
  • Options
    IMO they should ease the gear crunch for players who have hit a certain threshold. Just like you can sim GW at a certain point, or the raids even. Have toons unlock at G9 or something once you meet a certain benchmark. What that benchmark is I have no idea.

    Or add a button below the upgrade button for the toons. Don't have the gear to get the next gear level? Hit this button and for X amount of dollars you can advance the toon without using ANY of your gear.
  • Options
    I feel like the subtext to a lot of the angst around the Road Ahead comes down to one thing that the Devs seem to either have forgotten or aren’t fully aware of from a player’s perspective: The process of unlocking Galactic Legends is the least rewarding and least fun part of the game.

    That’s not saying the GLs themselves aren’t fun and rewarding, but the process itself is awful. Even for moderate spenders, it’s a months long process of 1) Gearing up characters you may not like and may not even ever use a single time in actual game play 2) Gearing characters to much higher gear levels than their kits warrant or deserve 3) Farming tickets so you can play the exact same event over and over and over until you unlock the GL, and 4) Gearing and modding the new character just so that you can spend the next few weeks farming their Ultimate by once again doing the exact same battles over and over and over again.

    Once all that is done, you can finally play with your new toy. For me personally, that whole process is so long and tedious that I don’t even care about the new character anymore at that point. I’m just relieved the farm is over. Eventually the memory of that process fades and I can start enjoying playing with the new toy, but it takes real time to make that transition from farm exhaustion to enjoying the Galactic Legend for the great characters they are.

    The thing that has kept me sane during this process is taking breaks between GLs to farm non-GL counters for GLs. It’s typically a somewhat shorter time commitment, doesn't require any ticket farming or endless replaying of events, gives my roster more flexibility, and almost always involves characters that presumably will be required for new GLs sooner or later anyway. Most importantly though, it also gives me more immediate satisfaction once I’m done farming instead of having to wait for the months-long trauma to wear off.

    The thing that deflates me most about the Road Ahead is not that a few characters are getting nerfed or altered. It’s pretty obvious that when the exact same non-GL characters are used in so many combinations of meta teams, those characters may be a little over-tuned. The concern is that the decision to reduce non-GL counters to GLs means there is no longer a worthwhile reward for farming other characters as those critical sanity breaks between GL farms. Yes, you can still farm whatever you want, it just means now that you’ll fall behind in arena, TW, GAC, and potentially Conquest.

    Ultimately this new approach means that every time you finish a GL grind, you need to go right into the next one with no break. Sure you could farm non-GL teams to take out non-GL teams, but why would you? The game is entirely now a race to the most GLs unless you are prepared to give up winning entirely in PVP game modes.

    When people complain about the gear grind, in my opinion they aren’t just saying they want everything to be easy. They are saying they want the GL grind to be lessened to the point that you can still actually be excited about that character when you finally get them geared with their Ultimate. Or at the very least, they want to be able to farm other characters in between GLs without completely tanking their forward progress in the game. From a game health perspective, it seems like a no-brainer to ensure people have opportunities to feel progress and achievement more often than just every few months.

    The new Conquest character releases are one great solution for this. It gives you the chance for new toys by spending more time in-game but without completely sacrificing your progress in other areas. It’s a welcome start but still does not address the overall perceived imbalance between the effort of gear farming and GL grinds verses achievement, accomplishment and fun.

    /end rant
  • TVF
    36751 posts Member
    Options
    Or add a button below the upgrade button for the toons. Don't have the gear to get the next gear level? Hit this button and for X amount of dollars you can advance the toon without using ANY of your gear.

    Not sure how this helps the supposed gear crunch lol.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Starslayer
    2421 posts Member
    edited July 2021
    Options
    Starslayer wrote: »
    Johanides wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    CmdrS0l0 wrote: »
    So I’m still a little confused. Will they be changing the GAC matchups to now only have players with GLs match up against other players with GLs? Seems a little unfair if you have a GL player match up against a non-GL player even though their GP might be comparable?

    Currently, no there are no plans to change matchmaking, but this is being discussed and monitored.

    What exactly is here to be monitored? :D
    If there will be no more non-GL counter, it's loss for anybody who don't have one and is matched up against player with at least one (assuming that GL is set on defence, which is common thing to do).
    If current non-GL counters are "only" nerfed to the point, that you need two or more teams to beat one GL you will most probably need more robust roster, therefor more GP than your opponent with GL.

    If you relic’d 14 good characters of your choice whilst your opponent relic’d 14 meh prerequisites, you should have a more robust roster.

    CLS and Chewpio are meh characters :joy:

    ‘Meh’ on average. Some are very good and other very bad.
    You chose jml’s prerequisites (the one gl people said: now,it’s the worst), which are imo the best ones. Fine, let’s do this worst case scenario. To unlock jml, you need to relic:

    Wampa
    Cholo
    Rolo
    Hyoda (good, but relics are close to useless)
    Lando
    For jkl only. But, maybe you want only jkl. Ok then, for jml only you need:
    2 more relic levels for hyoda
    2 more relic levels for lando
    Leila
    Biggs
    Wedge
    R2 to r7
    Jtr to r7

    I’m pretty sure that if you have no gl, your first move would not be to relic those characters for the kick of it. And if it was your first move… well, let’s say that is a questionable strategic decision if you want to build a competitive roster.

    If I use only prerequisites, I could build the following teams:
    Cls, Han, chewie, 3po, Chewpio. Good team.
    Mothma, Biggs, wedge, lando +1 Rebel (not a Rebel fighter though). Let’s say Leia. Ok team
    Jml, hyoda, jkl, obiwan. A 4 jedi team, still great thanks to jml
    Jtr, r2. The start of a good team, useless on its own.

    For what people judge the worst jml but with the best prerequisites, you’ll have:
    1 good team (cls)
    1 ok team (mm without pao nor hoth dude, so without what makes this team good)
    If you gear up 5 more characters, you’ll get:
    1 great Jedi team (but not the best version of it, you’ll lack gas or jkr)
    1 ok team (resistance)

    Tl;dr
    Relicing 20 characters to unlock jml and finish up teams (disregarding jkl prerequisites which would make it worse), you’ll have:
    1 great team (jml, not the best version of it)
    1 good team (cls)
    2 ok teams (mm and jtr)

    If you relic 20 characters of your choice, you could build 4 good teams instead (top of my head: Sith empire, Padme, imp troopers, grievous).

    And this is imo best case scenario, other GLs prerequisites being worse. From there, to each his own. Every player who is match in gac vs a player with a gl could have unlock a gl. He chose differently, good for him, but I don’t understand why it’s a problem.

    Now, I think that with changes of this magnitude, doing a little better in devolving nerfed characters seems a fair demand, because some players (i don’t think a whole bunch, but still) chose the ‘counters’ route instead of the gl route, and now their matchmaking is hurt; they’re almost forced to unlock GLs using characters from their counters (if you used Vader and thrawn for a Rey counter, see is on the way), and that’s probably wai.
    Nevertheless, matchmaking still works just fine as it is. The counter and no gl strategy will suffer during the transition, not denying that.

  • DD_Dathomir
    4 posts Member
    edited July 2021
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    Why doesn’t it matter to CG that many of us invested (bought) GAS and JKL. We made these investments knowing these characters are very good. Most of us would NEVER have gone this route if we knew CG would confiscate our property (eliminating the toons key abilities). In my opinion CG made implied promises that the toons we acquire/buy would remain the same (or get buffed ) but not go backwards! CG has now broken this promise and I don’t know how you can ever trust them again.
    For me, the design of my roster is now just wrong. GLs are already too powerful and as they get even more powerful this game will lose much of its fun. Luke Skywalker was the underdog, yet he defeated the empire. The underdog in SWGOH will have very little to no chance given the nerfs on the horizon.
    This is a sad day for the game.

    COMPENSATION, COMPENSATION, COMPENSATION…

    I’d like to build on my prior post, and I’d like to make it clear to capital games that they should compensate players significantly for the nerfs they are doing to toons we previously bought and paid for.

    As I’ve already written, there was an implied promise from capital games that these characters, after purchase, would be exactly what they were purported to be. Making them worse retroactively breaks the fundamental promise that a player has with capital games/EA. If capital games proceeds with this plan, the only way they can restore any level of trust with players is to compensate them for the confiscation of property.

    In my case I have Jedi master Luke. After these changes going to affect my GL become significantly less valuable as his supporting cast has been nerfed — GAS and JKL. The only way capital gains can even remotely make me whole is to provide substantial compensation such that I can acquire and relic characters that would be of great use to my galactic legend, and/or greatly enhance my pursuit of a different galactic legend that is more relevant given the new changes to the game.

    Where is the discussion on compensation? How on earth does CG not understand that this must be done if they’re going to confiscate property that we have paid for? [BTW — refunding from relic 8 to relic 7 is a joke and can’t remotely be considered compensation for these drastic changes to previously purchased characters.]
  • SWBSD
    57 posts Member
    Options
    Maybe a different take here, but the devs have to understand this is a fundamental change to the essential “rules” of the game, correct? This isn’t an adjustment where a tweak is made that’s isolated to certain areas; this changes everything.

    For example, I started playing a little over a year ago as GL’s were being rolled out. At the time, GL’s were the shiny new toy, something to work towards but not necessarily drop everything else for, more of an end game feature, and many of us proceeded accordingly. I farmed, spent (2k+), and played for JKR, DR, Malak, CLS, etc., under the rules of the game as they were. I’ve got 3.9 mil GP w/ 17 relic’d toons and am working towards JMK.

    But with this change GL’s seemingly become THE most important factor in the game, being essentially unbeatable for anyone without one and impacting success (and crystal acquisition) across nearly every aspect of the game. My problem is a new player could spend the same in time & resources as I have, acquire a GL, and essentially jump my position in the game simply by having the understanding of the new rules. If I had known GL’s were going to eventually take this extreme position in the game, my choices in progression would have been entirely different, and again that’s the problem I have with this. I’ve spent the time & resources to advance in the game reasonably given the previous framework, but now am essentially going to be pushed back to practically newbie status with this change. Top 100 in squad becomes a memory, GAC is L’s vs. GL’s, my squads value in TW’s free fall, my value to the guild in raids free falls, NOT because of my gameplay, but because of these changes.

    Maybe these changes don’t have the impact many here think they will. And maybe the angst these changes are generating will end up much ado about nothing. But any major change like this, where a group of toons clearly take on an even more important role in the meta should be accompanied by major options for the players; one of which should be the option of resetting our toons (not just back a few levels/tiers/relics, but back to zero) and re-leveling/re-gearing them relative to the new importance GL’s are taking.
  • Ravens1113
    5215 posts Member
    Options
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Looooki wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nick_74 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Looooki wrote: »
    Sooooo let's get this out of the way ...

    Has CG replied to any of the post yet ?
    Is Doja leaving CG ? Why the silence and crumb taking the lead ?
    When is the update dropping (Specific date)

    And I guess the most important question ??
    - what data is CG using to arrive at this conclusion in the road ahead ?

    Yes they have.

    No. Because 1 - he is the lead, 2 - a little bit of not our business, not being rude, just saying people have lives.

    No date yet.

    Testing on relic levels.
    I Can understand that you need to do some changes but I don’t get the many of the nerfs like Thrawn and C 3po, how can this be related to relic levels?

    Also if you read the comment it pretty clear that relic 9 is not wanted at this time especially since even the biggest whales are having a hard time reaching relic 8.

    If my personal income was depending of a game like this and I got such a massive negative feedback I would be very worried

    The defense ignoring and such is what is based on relic levels, some of the other changes were based on making/keeping GLs in the tip tier vs counters requiring lower investment (their words not me defending anything).

    There will always be conflict when it comes to pushing development and the pace that which it can happen. Just like good character levels, shouldn't high level relic be harder to get or take longer? (Not taling about the other pinch points along the way)

    The game is always dying, and each thing will always be the last straw. They look at the constructive feedback and they do their best to advocate for what they can when things like this happen. Unfortunately the player base is not always going to have the knowledge or wherewithal to gauge long term effects or future content/additions. Or the ability this may grant devs to make new toons at many levels more efficiently or possibly update older toons. This is not the players fault or anything like that, it's just the nature of being on the outside. I am also not saying this is right or the only way it could be. Or anything like that.

    Kyno nobody has issues with rebalancing due to interactions with defense. That’s fine. However based on crumbs posts and the RA video itself, it’s clear they’re doing this to also neutralize non GL counters. That’s not ok, especially when after over a hundred pages regarding SEE and troopers, posts about JML vs DR, etc all of it was deemed WAI and ok by the devs. They had given it the green light and people invested specifically for counters to GL’s. Now they’re actively taking that investment away.

    As for the gear crunch, sure the newest thing should be the hardest to obtain sure. Unfortunately there’s hasn’t been any alleviation from GEAR 8 gear crunches… when getting from g8 to G12 is still an insufferable grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from G12 to G13 is still an insufferable grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from G13 to R7 is still a massive grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from R7 to R8 is a huge resource sink and only several months old, more progression is not ok. Getting from R8 to R9 is going to be a massive resource dump if R8 is any indication, and what’s more they keep forcing us to use the same relic materials all the way from R1 through R8. Every single piece is the same beyond R5. Carbonite boards, bronzium wiring, chromium transistors, heatsinks, electrium conductors, zimbiddles and of course the signal data’s….that’s just relic.

    Come on Kyno, I get you defending them as par the course but there’s nothing you can say to justify even more progression when G8 gear is still an issue 5 years into the game.

    I was specifically speaking to the player talking about intro of 9 when 8 is hard to get and expressed that, but that's for ignoring that and saying I am in any way defending anything about gear levels. Cheers.

    And I touched on that. R8 to R9 should still be difficult. Even getting to R8 should be tougher but any other mobile game in existence, even MSF with how money hungry and greedy they are have made gear progression easier as your time in the game goes on. Blue and purple gear? Used to be massive choke points like their G13 uniques and G15 currently are. Now? Purple gear is nothing. Getting to G12 is only bottlenecked by gold and training mats; which one will more available than the other, balancing it out over time.

    CG hasn’t done that. At all. They’ve actually made the grind from G8-g13 worse with the introduction of kyro techs. Another 2 gear pieces to farm under the guise of it “alleviating the stun gun crunch” lmao nope, still there! Just worse now.

    What you’re missing the point on even with the person you were talking to is that it’s not an issue of a several month old gear level being hard to obtain. It’s a 5 year old gear issue still being a massive choke point.

    I’m sorry but listening to crumb dance around the question regarding the gear economy in that podcast was the most disingenuous and maddening thing from that whole segment. He’s literally saying that they know how to get more gear to us but don’t want to because they don’t want to completely lose those bottlenecks at lower levels over time. Excuse me? I get keeping those bottlenecks in place so new accounts don’t just gear up in one week, but players that have been in the game for a year or two, let alone since day one, should not be unable to bring characters to G12 with little inconvenience given the bottlenecks still in place at G12, G12+, G13 and every relic level.

    But you are wrong, they have dealt with it "naturally" like they said they are sticking to, at the moment. That is why we have increased income of many pieces over time. Yes this was been fairly in line with the need, which keeps the pace where it is, but that is also needed. We have not slowed in any of these incomes which would be a sign of them not doing anything to address this.

    I am also disheartened by the direct statement that we will not see more of a distinct action to deal with gear (although I have been suspecting as such from the discussions I have had/seen), but I still think there are still possibilities for them to deal with this through existing game modes.

    I have not listened yet, but I get that, they still want a development cycle in the early stages like we had then.

    Also, their “natural” fixes haven’t done anything to specifically target gear crunches that are hindering us all. Crumb mentioned Conquest and GC’s….umm no that doesn’t guarantee even crunch gear rewarded when you have mk4 carbs and guns in the prize boxes and nerf the rewards as you progress rather than reward more. Same for GC’s as that’s more tuned for mod slicing materials.

    What natural things? The daily prize box? I’m sorry I think it’s been almost a month since I saw mk5 guns, mk3 cuffs or mk8 biotech as a prize from there.

    Kyro’s? That made the gear grind WORSE. Not better

    Raid rewards? The same tank rewards in both HAAT and HSTR? Mk6 thermals? Mk4 holodiscs. Mk10 and 11 weapontechs? To this day the best rewards are in the normal Rancor Raids. Crancor is a mixed bag because you could end up with G5 gear or something as great as fully crafted mk5 gun or kyro templates. However to this day I’ve gotten none of that. The best I got was fully crafted G12 gear like the mk12 blast armor.

    Where’s the natural help?



    How to actually fix it?

    Daily challenge rewards? Oh look a solution….

    Guaranteeing gear drops or upping the drop rates? I mean….that could work too.

    Reworking prize boxes in current game modes? That could work too

    There’s several ways for the to do it. They can do it. What they lack is will or the capacity

    How early does a player get r3 or r5? Having enough characters to do daily challenges doeant really sound like a later stage of a roster.

    What current prize boxes have an sort of real divide? Basically Conquest is the only one.

    There are not several ways that actually offer any divide, which is what they seem to be looking for.

    Just something off topic but still related to Gear Crunch. How abt CRancor ? They said they will flatten the reward structure. How has that turned out ? And CRancor is something new.

    Ok back to topic. Daily challenges should be updated, along with arena shop etc.

    Daily challenges can have a newer tier with better rewards

    Shops should be updated with current gear that is needed (add a cap if you want to stop people from hording)

    All these can be done by scaling up the difficulty. Is only a matter of does CG want to do it or not.

    Before someone stone me to death, CG has done this before. Take CRancor as an example. A reskin of the original rancor but much higher difficulty and "better gear" rewards.

    I agree there are many places they could add things to help with the pinch points. It seems they want to have it done in a way that doesnt just remove it all together and that there is some transition point, and they want to use existing modes. Sure this can be done, and sure it doesnt seem to be the highest priority, since it hasn't happened yet, but the current system is manageable and for some there is a level of understanding there.

    In the end changes will happen, and we will see how they want that transition to happen and at what point in development that falls. It is likely to not be a simple solution or as simple as some feel it should be, but we shall see.

    So you agree? There are day one gear bottlenecks that should be taken care of? There are many ways that they can do this, but they just have chosen to do nothing about it? Meaning that the whole podcast dance Crumb just pulled was a fallacy.

    Kyno, honestly the community is tired of their excuses as to why the gear economy is in the state it’s in. The system is not manageable anymore as they further require R8 as basic entry points to unlock units now. They’ve had almost a year since they claimed that they’re taking a hard and more in depth look at the gear economy. It takes longer than that? Ok, because they’ve known this was an issue for longer than that and still have refused to do something about it.

    There’s no excuse anymore. They can’t keep claiming they don’t know how to fix it after how long it’s been an issue. The economy needs rebalancing. Bottlenecks are totally fine in the game for the newest and even relatively new thing. Day one gear? Sorry but any other mobile game in existence similar to this one has relieved day one hour points as new gear progression is announced and implemented

    When have I said there isnt a bottle neck, day one is debatable, but sure things that have been in the game since day one are on the list. We have been discussing how to fix it, so yes there are pinch points that players need to manage.

    Yes they have been dealing with and looking at the situation in many ways. They have been keeping it going, even with some level of increasing demand. Before and after the shard increase they looked at a similar overhaul or changes, and have seemingly concluded that this cannot happen and preserve the points they wish to, so they are looking at a different approach to satisfy all the points in a natural way.

    Please show me the quote where they said they do not know how to fix this.

    The economy as a whole is not going to be rebalanced, that is what they are saying.

    Watch the podcast from the other night. When asked about the gear crunch Crumb danced around the questions regarding the gear economy and couldn’t give a straight answer and said they didn’t know how to tackle the gear economy yet. Sometime after the 50 minute mark for your reference.

    Day one gear crunches includes guns and cuffs. So day one gear is still an issue. That’s not ok. They haven’t done anything positive for the gear crunch Kyno. When they add Kyrotechs to the game as a “oh this will alleviate stun guns” yet add kyros, guns, cuffs and biotech to almost every new toon, more than one of each ( just look at Piett), that’s not alleviating anything. They made it worse. Their solution? Oh we will add 3 free kyros to the daily prize box. Ok. Fantastic. After more than 2 weeks if I get the same kyro tech, I’ll have half of one fully crafted piece to go from gear 8 to gear 9….(FYI you need 50 prods and 50 data pads for one bloody kyrotech).

    After 9 months all they have is they can’t overhaul it? Lmao ok Kyno. That’s a joke and a half. Almost a full year and that’s all they can come up with? They have CC’s, forum posts, podcasts, you name it, that give tons of ideas on how to fix the gear economy and bring it to a modernized level. They can fine tune any of those ideas? I gave 4 myself they can alter and fine tune that brings carbs, guns, cuffs, and biotechs on the same level carbs are now. Carbs are a pinch point but with management can be managed. Guns, cuffs, biotechs and more? No.

    It’s ok though, you can keep helping them avoid the gear crunch issue and kick the can down the road. The community knows it’s nonsense and that they’re lying when they says it’s too complicated. I’ll close my wallet until they decide to make economy balances and know many who are following the same path. Especially since they are reserving the right to arbitrarily change kits and toon effectiveness if they’re too good for GL’s or counter them too effectively. Woo let me spend month worth of in game currency and real life money for toons that they’ll just change because “too good for GL’s”
  • twstdbydsn
    1104 posts Member
    Options
    Just looking at my shard's top 50. ALL GL's. And I'm assuming the next 50 are pretty similar. FWIW, I linger in the 300's (I know, git gud) and I'm surrounded by GL's there too, so sure there may be non GL counters out there, but that certainly doesn't seem to be a huge issue in the upper echelon of the shard mafia. So I don't really see how these changes are making a big difference overall. Especially if you keep making new GL's going forward. At some point none of it will really matter, right?
    Ultimately the shard mafia's have full control over it all, not those who actually make the game.

    Fingers crossed I get my first GL relatively soon. I still need to R7 two characters and R5 two more.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Options
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Looooki wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nick_74 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Looooki wrote: »
    Sooooo let's get this out of the way ...

    Has CG replied to any of the post yet ?
    Is Doja leaving CG ? Why the silence and crumb taking the lead ?
    When is the update dropping (Specific date)

    And I guess the most important question ??
    - what data is CG using to arrive at this conclusion in the road ahead ?

    Yes they have.

    No. Because 1 - he is the lead, 2 - a little bit of not our business, not being rude, just saying people have lives.

    No date yet.

    Testing on relic levels.
    I Can understand that you need to do some changes but I don’t get the many of the nerfs like Thrawn and C 3po, how can this be related to relic levels?

    Also if you read the comment it pretty clear that relic 9 is not wanted at this time especially since even the biggest whales are having a hard time reaching relic 8.

    If my personal income was depending of a game like this and I got such a massive negative feedback I would be very worried

    The defense ignoring and such is what is based on relic levels, some of the other changes were based on making/keeping GLs in the tip tier vs counters requiring lower investment (their words not me defending anything).

    There will always be conflict when it comes to pushing development and the pace that which it can happen. Just like good character levels, shouldn't high level relic be harder to get or take longer? (Not taling about the other pinch points along the way)

    The game is always dying, and each thing will always be the last straw. They look at the constructive feedback and they do their best to advocate for what they can when things like this happen. Unfortunately the player base is not always going to have the knowledge or wherewithal to gauge long term effects or future content/additions. Or the ability this may grant devs to make new toons at many levels more efficiently or possibly update older toons. This is not the players fault or anything like that, it's just the nature of being on the outside. I am also not saying this is right or the only way it could be. Or anything like that.

    Kyno nobody has issues with rebalancing due to interactions with defense. That’s fine. However based on crumbs posts and the RA video itself, it’s clear they’re doing this to also neutralize non GL counters. That’s not ok, especially when after over a hundred pages regarding SEE and troopers, posts about JML vs DR, etc all of it was deemed WAI and ok by the devs. They had given it the green light and people invested specifically for counters to GL’s. Now they’re actively taking that investment away.

    As for the gear crunch, sure the newest thing should be the hardest to obtain sure. Unfortunately there’s hasn’t been any alleviation from GEAR 8 gear crunches… when getting from g8 to G12 is still an insufferable grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from G12 to G13 is still an insufferable grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from G13 to R7 is still a massive grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from R7 to R8 is a huge resource sink and only several months old, more progression is not ok. Getting from R8 to R9 is going to be a massive resource dump if R8 is any indication, and what’s more they keep forcing us to use the same relic materials all the way from R1 through R8. Every single piece is the same beyond R5. Carbonite boards, bronzium wiring, chromium transistors, heatsinks, electrium conductors, zimbiddles and of course the signal data’s….that’s just relic.

    Come on Kyno, I get you defending them as par the course but there’s nothing you can say to justify even more progression when G8 gear is still an issue 5 years into the game.

    I was specifically speaking to the player talking about intro of 9 when 8 is hard to get and expressed that, but that's for ignoring that and saying I am in any way defending anything about gear levels. Cheers.

    And I touched on that. R8 to R9 should still be difficult. Even getting to R8 should be tougher but any other mobile game in existence, even MSF with how money hungry and greedy they are have made gear progression easier as your time in the game goes on. Blue and purple gear? Used to be massive choke points like their G13 uniques and G15 currently are. Now? Purple gear is nothing. Getting to G12 is only bottlenecked by gold and training mats; which one will more available than the other, balancing it out over time.

    CG hasn’t done that. At all. They’ve actually made the grind from G8-g13 worse with the introduction of kyro techs. Another 2 gear pieces to farm under the guise of it “alleviating the stun gun crunch” lmao nope, still there! Just worse now.

    What you’re missing the point on even with the person you were talking to is that it’s not an issue of a several month old gear level being hard to obtain. It’s a 5 year old gear issue still being a massive choke point.

    I’m sorry but listening to crumb dance around the question regarding the gear economy in that podcast was the most disingenuous and maddening thing from that whole segment. He’s literally saying that they know how to get more gear to us but don’t want to because they don’t want to completely lose those bottlenecks at lower levels over time. Excuse me? I get keeping those bottlenecks in place so new accounts don’t just gear up in one week, but players that have been in the game for a year or two, let alone since day one, should not be unable to bring characters to G12 with little inconvenience given the bottlenecks still in place at G12, G12+, G13 and every relic level.

    But you are wrong, they have dealt with it "naturally" like they said they are sticking to, at the moment. That is why we have increased income of many pieces over time. Yes this was been fairly in line with the need, which keeps the pace where it is, but that is also needed. We have not slowed in any of these incomes which would be a sign of them not doing anything to address this.

    I am also disheartened by the direct statement that we will not see more of a distinct action to deal with gear (although I have been suspecting as such from the discussions I have had/seen), but I still think there are still possibilities for them to deal with this through existing game modes.

    I have not listened yet, but I get that, they still want a development cycle in the early stages like we had then.

    Also, their “natural” fixes haven’t done anything to specifically target gear crunches that are hindering us all. Crumb mentioned Conquest and GC’s….umm no that doesn’t guarantee even crunch gear rewarded when you have mk4 carbs and guns in the prize boxes and nerf the rewards as you progress rather than reward more. Same for GC’s as that’s more tuned for mod slicing materials.

    What natural things? The daily prize box? I’m sorry I think it’s been almost a month since I saw mk5 guns, mk3 cuffs or mk8 biotech as a prize from there.

    Kyro’s? That made the gear grind WORSE. Not better

    Raid rewards? The same tank rewards in both HAAT and HSTR? Mk6 thermals? Mk4 holodiscs. Mk10 and 11 weapontechs? To this day the best rewards are in the normal Rancor Raids. Crancor is a mixed bag because you could end up with G5 gear or something as great as fully crafted mk5 gun or kyro templates. However to this day I’ve gotten none of that. The best I got was fully crafted G12 gear like the mk12 blast armor.

    Where’s the natural help?



    How to actually fix it?

    Daily challenge rewards? Oh look a solution….

    Guaranteeing gear drops or upping the drop rates? I mean….that could work too.

    Reworking prize boxes in current game modes? That could work too

    There’s several ways for the to do it. They can do it. What they lack is will or the capacity

    How early does a player get r3 or r5? Having enough characters to do daily challenges doeant really sound like a later stage of a roster.

    What current prize boxes have an sort of real divide? Basically Conquest is the only one.

    There are not several ways that actually offer any divide, which is what they seem to be looking for.

    Just something off topic but still related to Gear Crunch. How abt CRancor ? They said they will flatten the reward structure. How has that turned out ? And CRancor is something new.

    Ok back to topic. Daily challenges should be updated, along with arena shop etc.

    Daily challenges can have a newer tier with better rewards

    Shops should be updated with current gear that is needed (add a cap if you want to stop people from hording)

    All these can be done by scaling up the difficulty. Is only a matter of does CG want to do it or not.

    Before someone stone me to death, CG has done this before. Take CRancor as an example. A reskin of the original rancor but much higher difficulty and "better gear" rewards.

    I agree there are many places they could add things to help with the pinch points. It seems they want to have it done in a way that doesnt just remove it all together and that there is some transition point, and they want to use existing modes. Sure this can be done, and sure it doesnt seem to be the highest priority, since it hasn't happened yet, but the current system is manageable and for some there is a level of understanding there.

    In the end changes will happen, and we will see how they want that transition to happen and at what point in development that falls. It is likely to not be a simple solution or as simple as some feel it should be, but we shall see.

    So you agree? There are day one gear bottlenecks that should be taken care of? There are many ways that they can do this, but they just have chosen to do nothing about it? Meaning that the whole podcast dance Crumb just pulled was a fallacy.

    Kyno, honestly the community is tired of their excuses as to why the gear economy is in the state it’s in. The system is not manageable anymore as they further require R8 as basic entry points to unlock units now. They’ve had almost a year since they claimed that they’re taking a hard and more in depth look at the gear economy. It takes longer than that? Ok, because they’ve known this was an issue for longer than that and still have refused to do something about it.

    There’s no excuse anymore. They can’t keep claiming they don’t know how to fix it after how long it’s been an issue. The economy needs rebalancing. Bottlenecks are totally fine in the game for the newest and even relatively new thing. Day one gear? Sorry but any other mobile game in existence similar to this one has relieved day one hour points as new gear progression is announced and implemented

    When have I said there isnt a bottle neck, day one is debatable, but sure things that have been in the game since day one are on the list. We have been discussing how to fix it, so yes there are pinch points that players need to manage.

    Yes they have been dealing with and looking at the situation in many ways. They have been keeping it going, even with some level of increasing demand. Before and after the shard increase they looked at a similar overhaul or changes, and have seemingly concluded that this cannot happen and preserve the points they wish to, so they are looking at a different approach to satisfy all the points in a natural way.

    Please show me the quote where they said they do not know how to fix this.

    The economy as a whole is not going to be rebalanced, that is what they are saying.

    Watch the podcast from the other night. When asked about the gear crunch Crumb danced around the questions regarding the gear economy and couldn’t give a straight answer and said they didn’t know how to tackle the gear economy yet. Sometime after the 50 minute mark for your reference.

    Day one gear crunches includes guns and cuffs. So day one gear is still an issue. That’s not ok. They haven’t done anything positive for the gear crunch Kyno. When they add Kyrotechs to the game as a “oh this will alleviate stun guns” yet add kyros, guns, cuffs and biotech to almost every new toon, more than one of each ( just look at Piett), that’s not alleviating anything. They made it worse. Their solution? Oh we will add 3 free kyros to the daily prize box. Ok. Fantastic. After more than 2 weeks if I get the same kyro tech, I’ll have half of one fully crafted piece to go from gear 8 to gear 9….(FYI you need 50 prods and 50 data pads for one bloody kyrotech).

    After 9 months all they have is they can’t overhaul it? Lmao ok Kyno. That’s a joke and a half. Almost a full year and that’s all they can come up with? They have CC’s, forum posts, podcasts, you name it, that give tons of ideas on how to fix the gear economy and bring it to a modernized level. They can fine tune any of those ideas? I gave 4 myself they can alter and fine tune that brings carbs, guns, cuffs, and biotechs on the same level carbs are now. Carbs are a pinch point but with management can be managed. Guns, cuffs, biotechs and more? No.

    It’s ok though, you can keep helping them avoid the gear crunch issue and kick the can down the road. The community knows it’s nonsense and that they’re lying when they says it’s too complicated. I’ll close my wallet until they decide to make economy balances and know many who are following the same path. Especially since they are reserving the right to arbitrarily change kits and toon effectiveness if they’re too good for GL’s or counter them too effectively. Woo let me spend month worth of in game currency and real life money for toons that they’ll just change because “too good for GL’s”

    Yes, yes, it's me stopping them, thanks for that call out, I can see you are no longer interested in a constructive conversation.
  • exile038
    138 posts Member
    Options
    I’ve come up with a small list of ways to help alleviate some of the older gear crunch issues. I don’t think these would negatively impact the economy of the game but also moves the gear crunch from around gear 8 up to gear 11 or 12. It’s not a perfect answer but will help.

    Gear challenge:
    As stated in the title of the event, it is for gear. The Mk 4 Stun Gun is the reward for the last 3 tiers of the event, just like the Mk 3 Carbonti and the Mk 9 Fabritech. I propose we add the Mk 5 Stun Gun to the final tier of rewards for TAC and increase the Mk 9 Fabritech up to 6

    Conquest/ Galactic Challenges:
    I propose we add a guaranteed amount of Stun Cuffs to the Red crates for these event. This will provide more incentive to fully complete these events.

    TW: For TW I propose we add a guaranteed reward for 1st and 2nd place. 1st place could get 20 Kyrotech(coin toss) and 2nd place could get 20 stun guns or stun cuffs.
    LS Battles: Either add or replace something and put Mk 5 Stun Cuffs.
    DS Battles: Either add or replace something and put Mk 5 Stun Guns
  • TVF
    36751 posts Member
    edited July 2021
    Options
    I think Kyro is a crunch for sure, especially now given how much you already need for just LV Group 1 in combination with the requirements for Exec.

    Haven't had a problem with stun guns or cuffs in forever.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Looooki
    1045 posts Member
    edited July 2021
    Options
    Would be nice if doja or crumb hang out here and answering questions in their free time.
  • Ravens1113
    5215 posts Member
    Options
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Looooki wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nick_74 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Looooki wrote: »
    Sooooo let's get this out of the way ...

    Has CG replied to any of the post yet ?
    Is Doja leaving CG ? Why the silence and crumb taking the lead ?
    When is the update dropping (Specific date)

    And I guess the most important question ??
    - what data is CG using to arrive at this conclusion in the road ahead ?

    Yes they have.

    No. Because 1 - he is the lead, 2 - a little bit of not our business, not being rude, just saying people have lives.

    No date yet.

    Testing on relic levels.
    I Can understand that you need to do some changes but I don’t get the many of the nerfs like Thrawn and C 3po, how can this be related to relic levels?

    Also if you read the comment it pretty clear that relic 9 is not wanted at this time especially since even the biggest whales are having a hard time reaching relic 8.

    If my personal income was depending of a game like this and I got such a massive negative feedback I would be very worried

    The defense ignoring and such is what is based on relic levels, some of the other changes were based on making/keeping GLs in the tip tier vs counters requiring lower investment (their words not me defending anything).

    There will always be conflict when it comes to pushing development and the pace that which it can happen. Just like good character levels, shouldn't high level relic be harder to get or take longer? (Not taling about the other pinch points along the way)

    The game is always dying, and each thing will always be the last straw. They look at the constructive feedback and they do their best to advocate for what they can when things like this happen. Unfortunately the player base is not always going to have the knowledge or wherewithal to gauge long term effects or future content/additions. Or the ability this may grant devs to make new toons at many levels more efficiently or possibly update older toons. This is not the players fault or anything like that, it's just the nature of being on the outside. I am also not saying this is right or the only way it could be. Or anything like that.

    Kyno nobody has issues with rebalancing due to interactions with defense. That’s fine. However based on crumbs posts and the RA video itself, it’s clear they’re doing this to also neutralize non GL counters. That’s not ok, especially when after over a hundred pages regarding SEE and troopers, posts about JML vs DR, etc all of it was deemed WAI and ok by the devs. They had given it the green light and people invested specifically for counters to GL’s. Now they’re actively taking that investment away.

    As for the gear crunch, sure the newest thing should be the hardest to obtain sure. Unfortunately there’s hasn’t been any alleviation from GEAR 8 gear crunches… when getting from g8 to G12 is still an insufferable grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from G12 to G13 is still an insufferable grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from G13 to R7 is still a massive grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from R7 to R8 is a huge resource sink and only several months old, more progression is not ok. Getting from R8 to R9 is going to be a massive resource dump if R8 is any indication, and what’s more they keep forcing us to use the same relic materials all the way from R1 through R8. Every single piece is the same beyond R5. Carbonite boards, bronzium wiring, chromium transistors, heatsinks, electrium conductors, zimbiddles and of course the signal data’s….that’s just relic.

    Come on Kyno, I get you defending them as par the course but there’s nothing you can say to justify even more progression when G8 gear is still an issue 5 years into the game.

    I was specifically speaking to the player talking about intro of 9 when 8 is hard to get and expressed that, but that's for ignoring that and saying I am in any way defending anything about gear levels. Cheers.

    And I touched on that. R8 to R9 should still be difficult. Even getting to R8 should be tougher but any other mobile game in existence, even MSF with how money hungry and greedy they are have made gear progression easier as your time in the game goes on. Blue and purple gear? Used to be massive choke points like their G13 uniques and G15 currently are. Now? Purple gear is nothing. Getting to G12 is only bottlenecked by gold and training mats; which one will more available than the other, balancing it out over time.

    CG hasn’t done that. At all. They’ve actually made the grind from G8-g13 worse with the introduction of kyro techs. Another 2 gear pieces to farm under the guise of it “alleviating the stun gun crunch” lmao nope, still there! Just worse now.

    What you’re missing the point on even with the person you were talking to is that it’s not an issue of a several month old gear level being hard to obtain. It’s a 5 year old gear issue still being a massive choke point.

    I’m sorry but listening to crumb dance around the question regarding the gear economy in that podcast was the most disingenuous and maddening thing from that whole segment. He’s literally saying that they know how to get more gear to us but don’t want to because they don’t want to completely lose those bottlenecks at lower levels over time. Excuse me? I get keeping those bottlenecks in place so new accounts don’t just gear up in one week, but players that have been in the game for a year or two, let alone since day one, should not be unable to bring characters to G12 with little inconvenience given the bottlenecks still in place at G12, G12+, G13 and every relic level.

    But you are wrong, they have dealt with it "naturally" like they said they are sticking to, at the moment. That is why we have increased income of many pieces over time. Yes this was been fairly in line with the need, which keeps the pace where it is, but that is also needed. We have not slowed in any of these incomes which would be a sign of them not doing anything to address this.

    I am also disheartened by the direct statement that we will not see more of a distinct action to deal with gear (although I have been suspecting as such from the discussions I have had/seen), but I still think there are still possibilities for them to deal with this through existing game modes.

    I have not listened yet, but I get that, they still want a development cycle in the early stages like we had then.

    Also, their “natural” fixes haven’t done anything to specifically target gear crunches that are hindering us all. Crumb mentioned Conquest and GC’s….umm no that doesn’t guarantee even crunch gear rewarded when you have mk4 carbs and guns in the prize boxes and nerf the rewards as you progress rather than reward more. Same for GC’s as that’s more tuned for mod slicing materials.

    What natural things? The daily prize box? I’m sorry I think it’s been almost a month since I saw mk5 guns, mk3 cuffs or mk8 biotech as a prize from there.

    Kyro’s? That made the gear grind WORSE. Not better

    Raid rewards? The same tank rewards in both HAAT and HSTR? Mk6 thermals? Mk4 holodiscs. Mk10 and 11 weapontechs? To this day the best rewards are in the normal Rancor Raids. Crancor is a mixed bag because you could end up with G5 gear or something as great as fully crafted mk5 gun or kyro templates. However to this day I’ve gotten none of that. The best I got was fully crafted G12 gear like the mk12 blast armor.

    Where’s the natural help?



    How to actually fix it?

    Daily challenge rewards? Oh look a solution….

    Guaranteeing gear drops or upping the drop rates? I mean….that could work too.

    Reworking prize boxes in current game modes? That could work too

    There’s several ways for the to do it. They can do it. What they lack is will or the capacity

    How early does a player get r3 or r5? Having enough characters to do daily challenges doeant really sound like a later stage of a roster.

    What current prize boxes have an sort of real divide? Basically Conquest is the only one.

    There are not several ways that actually offer any divide, which is what they seem to be looking for.

    Just something off topic but still related to Gear Crunch. How abt CRancor ? They said they will flatten the reward structure. How has that turned out ? And CRancor is something new.

    Ok back to topic. Daily challenges should be updated, along with arena shop etc.

    Daily challenges can have a newer tier with better rewards

    Shops should be updated with current gear that is needed (add a cap if you want to stop people from hording)

    All these can be done by scaling up the difficulty. Is only a matter of does CG want to do it or not.

    Before someone stone me to death, CG has done this before. Take CRancor as an example. A reskin of the original rancor but much higher difficulty and "better gear" rewards.

    I agree there are many places they could add things to help with the pinch points. It seems they want to have it done in a way that doesnt just remove it all together and that there is some transition point, and they want to use existing modes. Sure this can be done, and sure it doesnt seem to be the highest priority, since it hasn't happened yet, but the current system is manageable and for some there is a level of understanding there.

    In the end changes will happen, and we will see how they want that transition to happen and at what point in development that falls. It is likely to not be a simple solution or as simple as some feel it should be, but we shall see.

    So you agree? There are day one gear bottlenecks that should be taken care of? There are many ways that they can do this, but they just have chosen to do nothing about it? Meaning that the whole podcast dance Crumb just pulled was a fallacy.

    Kyno, honestly the community is tired of their excuses as to why the gear economy is in the state it’s in. The system is not manageable anymore as they further require R8 as basic entry points to unlock units now. They’ve had almost a year since they claimed that they’re taking a hard and more in depth look at the gear economy. It takes longer than that? Ok, because they’ve known this was an issue for longer than that and still have refused to do something about it.

    There’s no excuse anymore. They can’t keep claiming they don’t know how to fix it after how long it’s been an issue. The economy needs rebalancing. Bottlenecks are totally fine in the game for the newest and even relatively new thing. Day one gear? Sorry but any other mobile game in existence similar to this one has relieved day one hour points as new gear progression is announced and implemented

    When have I said there isnt a bottle neck, day one is debatable, but sure things that have been in the game since day one are on the list. We have been discussing how to fix it, so yes there are pinch points that players need to manage.

    Yes they have been dealing with and looking at the situation in many ways. They have been keeping it going, even with some level of increasing demand. Before and after the shard increase they looked at a similar overhaul or changes, and have seemingly concluded that this cannot happen and preserve the points they wish to, so they are looking at a different approach to satisfy all the points in a natural way.

    Please show me the quote where they said they do not know how to fix this.

    The economy as a whole is not going to be rebalanced, that is what they are saying.

    Watch the podcast from the other night. When asked about the gear crunch Crumb danced around the questions regarding the gear economy and couldn’t give a straight answer and said they didn’t know how to tackle the gear economy yet. Sometime after the 50 minute mark for your reference.

    Day one gear crunches includes guns and cuffs. So day one gear is still an issue. That’s not ok. They haven’t done anything positive for the gear crunch Kyno. When they add Kyrotechs to the game as a “oh this will alleviate stun guns” yet add kyros, guns, cuffs and biotech to almost every new toon, more than one of each ( just look at Piett), that’s not alleviating anything. They made it worse. Their solution? Oh we will add 3 free kyros to the daily prize box. Ok. Fantastic. After more than 2 weeks if I get the same kyro tech, I’ll have half of one fully crafted piece to go from gear 8 to gear 9….(FYI you need 50 prods and 50 data pads for one bloody kyrotech).

    After 9 months all they have is they can’t overhaul it? Lmao ok Kyno. That’s a joke and a half. Almost a full year and that’s all they can come up with? They have CC’s, forum posts, podcasts, you name it, that give tons of ideas on how to fix the gear economy and bring it to a modernized level. They can fine tune any of those ideas? I gave 4 myself they can alter and fine tune that brings carbs, guns, cuffs, and biotechs on the same level carbs are now. Carbs are a pinch point but with management can be managed. Guns, cuffs, biotechs and more? No.

    It’s ok though, you can keep helping them avoid the gear crunch issue and kick the can down the road. The community knows it’s nonsense and that they’re lying when they says it’s too complicated. I’ll close my wallet until they decide to make economy balances and know many who are following the same path. Especially since they are reserving the right to arbitrarily change kits and toon effectiveness if they’re too good for GL’s or counter them too effectively. Woo let me spend month worth of in game currency and real life money for toons that they’ll just change because “too good for GL’s”

    Yes, yes, it's me stopping them, thanks for that call out, I can see you are no longer interested in a constructive conversation.

    Lol where did I say you were stopping the devs from fixing the gear crunch? I said you were helping them kick the can down the road. How? By making excuse after excuse as to why it’s taken them years to do anything positive for the gear economy; 9 months after claiming they’re going to take an in-depth look.

    Now who’s not having a constructive conversation anymore?
  • Looooki
    1045 posts Member
    Options
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Looooki wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nick_74 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Looooki wrote: »
    Sooooo let's get this out of the way ...

    Has CG replied to any of the post yet ?
    Is Doja leaving CG ? Why the silence and crumb taking the lead ?
    When is the update dropping (Specific date)

    And I guess the most important question ??
    - what data is CG using to arrive at this conclusion in the road ahead ?

    Yes they have.

    No. Because 1 - he is the lead, 2 - a little bit of not our business, not being rude, just saying people have lives.

    No date yet.

    Testing on relic levels.
    I Can understand that you need to do some changes but I don’t get the many of the nerfs like Thrawn and C 3po, how can this be related to relic levels?

    Also if you read the comment it pretty clear that relic 9 is not wanted at this time especially since even the biggest whales are having a hard time reaching relic 8.

    If my personal income was depending of a game like this and I got such a massive negative feedback I would be very worried

    The defense ignoring and such is what is based on relic levels, some of the other changes were based on making/keeping GLs in the tip tier vs counters requiring lower investment (their words not me defending anything).

    There will always be conflict when it comes to pushing development and the pace that which it can happen. Just like good character levels, shouldn't high level relic be harder to get or take longer? (Not taling about the other pinch points along the way)

    The game is always dying, and each thing will always be the last straw. They look at the constructive feedback and they do their best to advocate for what they can when things like this happen. Unfortunately the player base is not always going to have the knowledge or wherewithal to gauge long term effects or future content/additions. Or the ability this may grant devs to make new toons at many levels more efficiently or possibly update older toons. This is not the players fault or anything like that, it's just the nature of being on the outside. I am also not saying this is right or the only way it could be. Or anything like that.

    Kyno nobody has issues with rebalancing due to interactions with defense. That’s fine. However based on crumbs posts and the RA video itself, it’s clear they’re doing this to also neutralize non GL counters. That’s not ok, especially when after over a hundred pages regarding SEE and troopers, posts about JML vs DR, etc all of it was deemed WAI and ok by the devs. They had given it the green light and people invested specifically for counters to GL’s. Now they’re actively taking that investment away.

    As for the gear crunch, sure the newest thing should be the hardest to obtain sure. Unfortunately there’s hasn’t been any alleviation from GEAR 8 gear crunches… when getting from g8 to G12 is still an insufferable grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from G12 to G13 is still an insufferable grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from G13 to R7 is still a massive grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from R7 to R8 is a huge resource sink and only several months old, more progression is not ok. Getting from R8 to R9 is going to be a massive resource dump if R8 is any indication, and what’s more they keep forcing us to use the same relic materials all the way from R1 through R8. Every single piece is the same beyond R5. Carbonite boards, bronzium wiring, chromium transistors, heatsinks, electrium conductors, zimbiddles and of course the signal data’s….that’s just relic.

    Come on Kyno, I get you defending them as par the course but there’s nothing you can say to justify even more progression when G8 gear is still an issue 5 years into the game.

    I was specifically speaking to the player talking about intro of 9 when 8 is hard to get and expressed that, but that's for ignoring that and saying I am in any way defending anything about gear levels. Cheers.

    And I touched on that. R8 to R9 should still be difficult. Even getting to R8 should be tougher but any other mobile game in existence, even MSF with how money hungry and greedy they are have made gear progression easier as your time in the game goes on. Blue and purple gear? Used to be massive choke points like their G13 uniques and G15 currently are. Now? Purple gear is nothing. Getting to G12 is only bottlenecked by gold and training mats; which one will more available than the other, balancing it out over time.

    CG hasn’t done that. At all. They’ve actually made the grind from G8-g13 worse with the introduction of kyro techs. Another 2 gear pieces to farm under the guise of it “alleviating the stun gun crunch” lmao nope, still there! Just worse now.

    What you’re missing the point on even with the person you were talking to is that it’s not an issue of a several month old gear level being hard to obtain. It’s a 5 year old gear issue still being a massive choke point.

    I’m sorry but listening to crumb dance around the question regarding the gear economy in that podcast was the most disingenuous and maddening thing from that whole segment. He’s literally saying that they know how to get more gear to us but don’t want to because they don’t want to completely lose those bottlenecks at lower levels over time. Excuse me? I get keeping those bottlenecks in place so new accounts don’t just gear up in one week, but players that have been in the game for a year or two, let alone since day one, should not be unable to bring characters to G12 with little inconvenience given the bottlenecks still in place at G12, G12+, G13 and every relic level.

    But you are wrong, they have dealt with it "naturally" like they said they are sticking to, at the moment. That is why we have increased income of many pieces over time. Yes this was been fairly in line with the need, which keeps the pace where it is, but that is also needed. We have not slowed in any of these incomes which would be a sign of them not doing anything to address this.

    I am also disheartened by the direct statement that we will not see more of a distinct action to deal with gear (although I have been suspecting as such from the discussions I have had/seen), but I still think there are still possibilities for them to deal with this through existing game modes.

    I have not listened yet, but I get that, they still want a development cycle in the early stages like we had then.

    Also, their “natural” fixes haven’t done anything to specifically target gear crunches that are hindering us all. Crumb mentioned Conquest and GC’s….umm no that doesn’t guarantee even crunch gear rewarded when you have mk4 carbs and guns in the prize boxes and nerf the rewards as you progress rather than reward more. Same for GC’s as that’s more tuned for mod slicing materials.

    What natural things? The daily prize box? I’m sorry I think it’s been almost a month since I saw mk5 guns, mk3 cuffs or mk8 biotech as a prize from there.

    Kyro’s? That made the gear grind WORSE. Not better

    Raid rewards? The same tank rewards in both HAAT and HSTR? Mk6 thermals? Mk4 holodiscs. Mk10 and 11 weapontechs? To this day the best rewards are in the normal Rancor Raids. Crancor is a mixed bag because you could end up with G5 gear or something as great as fully crafted mk5 gun or kyro templates. However to this day I’ve gotten none of that. The best I got was fully crafted G12 gear like the mk12 blast armor.

    Where’s the natural help?



    How to actually fix it?

    Daily challenge rewards? Oh look a solution….

    Guaranteeing gear drops or upping the drop rates? I mean….that could work too.

    Reworking prize boxes in current game modes? That could work too

    There’s several ways for the to do it. They can do it. What they lack is will or the capacity

    How early does a player get r3 or r5? Having enough characters to do daily challenges doeant really sound like a later stage of a roster.

    What current prize boxes have an sort of real divide? Basically Conquest is the only one.

    There are not several ways that actually offer any divide, which is what they seem to be looking for.

    Just something off topic but still related to Gear Crunch. How abt CRancor ? They said they will flatten the reward structure. How has that turned out ? And CRancor is something new.

    Ok back to topic. Daily challenges should be updated, along with arena shop etc.

    Daily challenges can have a newer tier with better rewards

    Shops should be updated with current gear that is needed (add a cap if you want to stop people from hording)

    All these can be done by scaling up the difficulty. Is only a matter of does CG want to do it or not.

    Before someone stone me to death, CG has done this before. Take CRancor as an example. A reskin of the original rancor but much higher difficulty and "better gear" rewards.

    I agree there are many places they could add things to help with the pinch points. It seems they want to have it done in a way that doesnt just remove it all together and that there is some transition point, and they want to use existing modes. Sure this can be done, and sure it doesnt seem to be the highest priority, since it hasn't happened yet, but the current system is manageable and for some there is a level of understanding there.

    In the end changes will happen, and we will see how they want that transition to happen and at what point in development that falls. It is likely to not be a simple solution or as simple as some feel it should be, but we shall see.

    So you agree? There are day one gear bottlenecks that should be taken care of? There are many ways that they can do this, but they just have chosen to do nothing about it? Meaning that the whole podcast dance Crumb just pulled was a fallacy.

    Kyno, honestly the community is tired of their excuses as to why the gear economy is in the state it’s in. The system is not manageable anymore as they further require R8 as basic entry points to unlock units now. They’ve had almost a year since they claimed that they’re taking a hard and more in depth look at the gear economy. It takes longer than that? Ok, because they’ve known this was an issue for longer than that and still have refused to do something about it.

    There’s no excuse anymore. They can’t keep claiming they don’t know how to fix it after how long it’s been an issue. The economy needs rebalancing. Bottlenecks are totally fine in the game for the newest and even relatively new thing. Day one gear? Sorry but any other mobile game in existence similar to this one has relieved day one hour points as new gear progression is announced and implemented

    When have I said there isnt a bottle neck, day one is debatable, but sure things that have been in the game since day one are on the list. We have been discussing how to fix it, so yes there are pinch points that players need to manage.

    Yes they have been dealing with and looking at the situation in many ways. They have been keeping it going, even with some level of increasing demand. Before and after the shard increase they looked at a similar overhaul or changes, and have seemingly concluded that this cannot happen and preserve the points they wish to, so they are looking at a different approach to satisfy all the points in a natural way.

    Please show me the quote where they said they do not know how to fix this.

    The economy as a whole is not going to be rebalanced, that is what they are saying.

    Watch the podcast from the other night. When asked about the gear crunch Crumb danced around the questions regarding the gear economy and couldn’t give a straight answer and said they didn’t know how to tackle the gear economy yet. Sometime after the 50 minute mark for your reference.

    Day one gear crunches includes guns and cuffs. So day one gear is still an issue. That’s not ok. They haven’t done anything positive for the gear crunch Kyno. When they add Kyrotechs to the game as a “oh this will alleviate stun guns” yet add kyros, guns, cuffs and biotech to almost every new toon, more than one of each ( just look at Piett), that’s not alleviating anything. They made it worse. Their solution? Oh we will add 3 free kyros to the daily prize box. Ok. Fantastic. After more than 2 weeks if I get the same kyro tech, I’ll have half of one fully crafted piece to go from gear 8 to gear 9….(FYI you need 50 prods and 50 data pads for one bloody kyrotech).

    After 9 months all they have is they can’t overhaul it? Lmao ok Kyno. That’s a joke and a half. Almost a full year and that’s all they can come up with? They have CC’s, forum posts, podcasts, you name it, that give tons of ideas on how to fix the gear economy and bring it to a modernized level. They can fine tune any of those ideas? I gave 4 myself they can alter and fine tune that brings carbs, guns, cuffs, and biotechs on the same level carbs are now. Carbs are a pinch point but with management can be managed. Guns, cuffs, biotechs and more? No.

    It’s ok though, you can keep helping them avoid the gear crunch issue and kick the can down the road. The community knows it’s nonsense and that they’re lying when they says it’s too complicated. I’ll close my wallet until they decide to make economy balances and know many who are following the same path. Especially since they are reserving the right to arbitrarily change kits and toon effectiveness if they’re too good for GL’s or counter them too effectively. Woo let me spend month worth of in game currency and real life money for toons that they’ll just change because “too good for GL’s”

    Chill bro. Most of us are upset. We have tons of post not reaching CG. Be it they really didnt see it or choose not to see it is debatable. But Kyno is just helping here ya ...
  • Nauros
    5429 posts Member
    Options
    Looooki wrote: »
    Would be nice if doja or crumb hang out here and answering questions in their free time.

    They could actually do it during work hours, being community managers and all. Let their free time be free.
  • Ravens1113
    5215 posts Member
    Options
    TVF wrote: »
    I think Kyro is a crunch for sure, especially now given how much you already need for just LV Group 1 in combination with the requirements for Exec.

    Haven't had a problem with stun guns or cuffs in forever.

    Kyros, Guns, biotechs for me. I’ve been able to maneuver cuffs to be manageable but I can’t get all 4 under control. It’s not possible given the current economy
  • Looooki
    1045 posts Member
    Options
    SWBSD wrote: »
    Maybe a different take here, but the devs have to understand this is a fundamental change to the essential “rules” of the game, correct? This isn’t an adjustment where a tweak is made that’s isolated to certain areas; this changes everything.

    For example, I started playing a little over a year ago as GL’s were being rolled out. At the time, GL’s were the shiny new toy, something to work towards but not necessarily drop everything else for, more of an end game feature, and many of us proceeded accordingly. I farmed, spent (2k+), and played for JKR, DR, Malak, CLS, etc., under the rules of the game as they were. I’ve got 3.9 mil GP w/ 17 relic’d toons and am working towards JMK.

    But with this change GL’s seemingly become THE most important factor in the game, being essentially unbeatable for anyone without one and impacting success (and crystal acquisition) across nearly every aspect of the game. My problem is a new player could spend the same in time & resources as I have, acquire a GL, and essentially jump my position in the game simply by having the understanding of the new rules. If I had known GL’s were going to eventually take this extreme position in the game, my choices in progression would have been entirely different, and again that’s the problem I have with this. I’ve spent the time & resources to advance in the game reasonably given the previous framework, but now am essentially going to be pushed back to practically newbie status with this change. Top 100 in squad becomes a memory, GAC is L’s vs. GL’s, my squads value in TW’s free fall, my value to the guild in raids free falls, NOT because of my gameplay, but because of these changes.

    Maybe these changes don’t have the impact many here think they will. And maybe the angst these changes are generating will end up much ado about nothing. But any major change like this, where a group of toons clearly take on an even more important role in the meta should be accompanied by major options for the players; one of which should be the option of resetting our toons (not just back a few levels/tiers/relics, but back to zero) and re-leveling/re-gearing them relative to the new importance GL’s are taking.

    I think the issue here is the direction they are giving. To summarize, it is conflicting at best.

    On one hand they want to diversify the meta, yet now the bottle neck is GL only

    They want to ease the gear crunch, yet intro another kind of gear that makes the gearing more of a headache.

    They want to put the goal post at G13, yet introduce relics. Add in mods slicing and more relic levels.

    But the most important thing imo is this, what is the end goal in mind? What is the road ahead for the later half of 2021 ? Beyond all these relic updates and nerfs. Because all it seems now is that it is a cash grab and nothing more.

    Also the promises of content. Where are they? Yes conquest and all, what is next ? Since relics and gear and toon requirements can be updated so fast, why not update your contents faster ?

    Stop locking things out of the relic gate (requires R8). Why not do something that an average person can do just for fun ? (How about the sand box mode?)
  • AlexanderG
    1929 posts Member
    Options
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Looooki wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nick_74 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Looooki wrote: »
    Sooooo let's get this out of the way ...

    Has CG replied to any of the post yet ?
    Is Doja leaving CG ? Why the silence and crumb taking the lead ?
    When is the update dropping (Specific date)

    And I guess the most important question ??
    - what data is CG using to arrive at this conclusion in the road ahead ?

    Yes they have.

    No. Because 1 - he is the lead, 2 - a little bit of not our business, not being rude, just saying people have lives.

    No date yet.

    Testing on relic levels.
    I Can understand that you need to do some changes but I don’t get the many of the nerfs like Thrawn and C 3po, how can this be related to relic levels?

    Also if you read the comment it pretty clear that relic 9 is not wanted at this time especially since even the biggest whales are having a hard time reaching relic 8.

    If my personal income was depending of a game like this and I got such a massive negative feedback I would be very worried

    The defense ignoring and such is what is based on relic levels, some of the other changes were based on making/keeping GLs in the tip tier vs counters requiring lower investment (their words not me defending anything).

    There will always be conflict when it comes to pushing development and the pace that which it can happen. Just like good character levels, shouldn't high level relic be harder to get or take longer? (Not taling about the other pinch points along the way)

    The game is always dying, and each thing will always be the last straw. They look at the constructive feedback and they do their best to advocate for what they can when things like this happen. Unfortunately the player base is not always going to have the knowledge or wherewithal to gauge long term effects or future content/additions. Or the ability this may grant devs to make new toons at many levels more efficiently or possibly update older toons. This is not the players fault or anything like that, it's just the nature of being on the outside. I am also not saying this is right or the only way it could be. Or anything like that.

    Kyno nobody has issues with rebalancing due to interactions with defense. That’s fine. However based on crumbs posts and the RA video itself, it’s clear they’re doing this to also neutralize non GL counters. That’s not ok, especially when after over a hundred pages regarding SEE and troopers, posts about JML vs DR, etc all of it was deemed WAI and ok by the devs. They had given it the green light and people invested specifically for counters to GL’s. Now they’re actively taking that investment away.

    As for the gear crunch, sure the newest thing should be the hardest to obtain sure. Unfortunately there’s hasn’t been any alleviation from GEAR 8 gear crunches… when getting from g8 to G12 is still an insufferable grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from G12 to G13 is still an insufferable grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from G13 to R7 is still a massive grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from R7 to R8 is a huge resource sink and only several months old, more progression is not ok. Getting from R8 to R9 is going to be a massive resource dump if R8 is any indication, and what’s more they keep forcing us to use the same relic materials all the way from R1 through R8. Every single piece is the same beyond R5. Carbonite boards, bronzium wiring, chromium transistors, heatsinks, electrium conductors, zimbiddles and of course the signal data’s….that’s just relic.

    Come on Kyno, I get you defending them as par the course but there’s nothing you can say to justify even more progression when G8 gear is still an issue 5 years into the game.

    I was specifically speaking to the player talking about intro of 9 when 8 is hard to get and expressed that, but that's for ignoring that and saying I am in any way defending anything about gear levels. Cheers.

    And I touched on that. R8 to R9 should still be difficult. Even getting to R8 should be tougher but any other mobile game in existence, even MSF with how money hungry and greedy they are have made gear progression easier as your time in the game goes on. Blue and purple gear? Used to be massive choke points like their G13 uniques and G15 currently are. Now? Purple gear is nothing. Getting to G12 is only bottlenecked by gold and training mats; which one will more available than the other, balancing it out over time.

    CG hasn’t done that. At all. They’ve actually made the grind from G8-g13 worse with the introduction of kyro techs. Another 2 gear pieces to farm under the guise of it “alleviating the stun gun crunch” lmao nope, still there! Just worse now.

    What you’re missing the point on even with the person you were talking to is that it’s not an issue of a several month old gear level being hard to obtain. It’s a 5 year old gear issue still being a massive choke point.

    I’m sorry but listening to crumb dance around the question regarding the gear economy in that podcast was the most disingenuous and maddening thing from that whole segment. He’s literally saying that they know how to get more gear to us but don’t want to because they don’t want to completely lose those bottlenecks at lower levels over time. Excuse me? I get keeping those bottlenecks in place so new accounts don’t just gear up in one week, but players that have been in the game for a year or two, let alone since day one, should not be unable to bring characters to G12 with little inconvenience given the bottlenecks still in place at G12, G12+, G13 and every relic level.

    But you are wrong, they have dealt with it "naturally" like they said they are sticking to, at the moment. That is why we have increased income of many pieces over time. Yes this was been fairly in line with the need, which keeps the pace where it is, but that is also needed. We have not slowed in any of these incomes which would be a sign of them not doing anything to address this.

    I am also disheartened by the direct statement that we will not see more of a distinct action to deal with gear (although I have been suspecting as such from the discussions I have had/seen), but I still think there are still possibilities for them to deal with this through existing game modes.

    I have not listened yet, but I get that, they still want a development cycle in the early stages like we had then.

    Also, their “natural” fixes haven’t done anything to specifically target gear crunches that are hindering us all. Crumb mentioned Conquest and GC’s….umm no that doesn’t guarantee even crunch gear rewarded when you have mk4 carbs and guns in the prize boxes and nerf the rewards as you progress rather than reward more. Same for GC’s as that’s more tuned for mod slicing materials.

    What natural things? The daily prize box? I’m sorry I think it’s been almost a month since I saw mk5 guns, mk3 cuffs or mk8 biotech as a prize from there.

    Kyro’s? That made the gear grind WORSE. Not better

    Raid rewards? The same tank rewards in both HAAT and HSTR? Mk6 thermals? Mk4 holodiscs. Mk10 and 11 weapontechs? To this day the best rewards are in the normal Rancor Raids. Crancor is a mixed bag because you could end up with G5 gear or something as great as fully crafted mk5 gun or kyro templates. However to this day I’ve gotten none of that. The best I got was fully crafted G12 gear like the mk12 blast armor.

    Where’s the natural help?



    How to actually fix it?

    Daily challenge rewards? Oh look a solution….

    Guaranteeing gear drops or upping the drop rates? I mean….that could work too.

    Reworking prize boxes in current game modes? That could work too

    There’s several ways for the to do it. They can do it. What they lack is will or the capacity

    How early does a player get r3 or r5? Having enough characters to do daily challenges doeant really sound like a later stage of a roster.

    What current prize boxes have an sort of real divide? Basically Conquest is the only one.

    There are not several ways that actually offer any divide, which is what they seem to be looking for.

    Just something off topic but still related to Gear Crunch. How abt CRancor ? They said they will flatten the reward structure. How has that turned out ? And CRancor is something new.

    Ok back to topic. Daily challenges should be updated, along with arena shop etc.

    Daily challenges can have a newer tier with better rewards

    Shops should be updated with current gear that is needed (add a cap if you want to stop people from hording)

    All these can be done by scaling up the difficulty. Is only a matter of does CG want to do it or not.

    Before someone stone me to death, CG has done this before. Take CRancor as an example. A reskin of the original rancor but much higher difficulty and "better gear" rewards.

    I agree there are many places they could add things to help with the pinch points. It seems they want to have it done in a way that doesnt just remove it all together and that there is some transition point, and they want to use existing modes. Sure this can be done, and sure it doesnt seem to be the highest priority, since it hasn't happened yet, but the current system is manageable and for some there is a level of understanding there.

    In the end changes will happen, and we will see how they want that transition to happen and at what point in development that falls. It is likely to not be a simple solution or as simple as some feel it should be, but we shall see.

    So you agree? There are day one gear bottlenecks that should be taken care of? There are many ways that they can do this, but they just have chosen to do nothing about it? Meaning that the whole podcast dance Crumb just pulled was a fallacy.

    Kyno, honestly the community is tired of their excuses as to why the gear economy is in the state it’s in. The system is not manageable anymore as they further require R8 as basic entry points to unlock units now. They’ve had almost a year since they claimed that they’re taking a hard and more in depth look at the gear economy. It takes longer than that? Ok, because they’ve known this was an issue for longer than that and still have refused to do something about it.

    There’s no excuse anymore. They can’t keep claiming they don’t know how to fix it after how long it’s been an issue. The economy needs rebalancing. Bottlenecks are totally fine in the game for the newest and even relatively new thing. Day one gear? Sorry but any other mobile game in existence similar to this one has relieved day one hour points as new gear progression is announced and implemented

    When have I said there isnt a bottle neck, day one is debatable, but sure things that have been in the game since day one are on the list. We have been discussing how to fix it, so yes there are pinch points that players need to manage.

    Yes they have been dealing with and looking at the situation in many ways. They have been keeping it going, even with some level of increasing demand. Before and after the shard increase they looked at a similar overhaul or changes, and have seemingly concluded that this cannot happen and preserve the points they wish to, so they are looking at a different approach to satisfy all the points in a natural way.

    Please show me the quote where they said they do not know how to fix this.

    The economy as a whole is not going to be rebalanced, that is what they are saying.

    Watch the podcast from the other night. When asked about the gear crunch Crumb danced around the questions regarding the gear economy and couldn’t give a straight answer and said they didn’t know how to tackle the gear economy yet. Sometime after the 50 minute mark for your reference.

    I'm not trying to argue against you or say the developers are right in this but when the community managers obfuscate or say "they don't know how" it seems to me that the issue here is those gear pieces probably generate a lot of revenue. So how do the devs go to the actual decision makers (at EA, presumably) with a proposal to include stun guns in challenges or whatever, without a way of offsetting the cost by raising revenue elsewhere?

    Like most businesses, I don't suppose they want to give away what they can otherwise sell.
  • Looooki
    1045 posts Member
    edited July 2021
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    Looooki wrote: »
    SWBSD wrote: »
    Maybe a different take here, but the devs have to understand this is a fundamental change to the essential “rules” of the game, correct? This isn’t an adjustment where a tweak is made that’s isolated to certain areas; this changes everything.

    For example, I started playing a little over a year ago as GL’s were being rolled out. At the time, GL’s were the shiny new toy, something to work towards but not necessarily drop everything else for, more of an end game feature, and many of us proceeded accordingly. I farmed, spent (2k+), and played for JKR, DR, Malak, CLS, etc., under the rules of the game as they were. I’ve got 3.9 mil GP w/ 17 relic’d toons and am working towards JMK.

    But with this change GL’s seemingly become THE most important factor in the game, being essentially unbeatable for anyone without one and impacting success (and crystal acquisition) across nearly every aspect of the game. My problem is a new player could spend the same in time & resources as I have, acquire a GL, and essentially jump my position in the game simply by having the understanding of the new rules. If I had known GL’s were going to eventually take this extreme position in the game, my choices in progression would have been entirely different, and again that’s the problem I have with this. I’ve spent the time & resources to advance in the game reasonably given the previous framework, but now am essentially going to be pushed back to practically newbie status with this change. Top 100 in squad becomes a memory, GAC is L’s vs. GL’s, my squads value in TW’s free fall, my value to the guild in raids free falls, NOT because of my gameplay, but because of these changes.

    Maybe these changes don’t have the impact many here think they will. And maybe the angst these changes are generating will end up much ado about nothing. But any major change like this, where a group of toons clearly take on an even more important role in the meta should be accompanied by major options for the players; one of which should be the option of resetting our toons (not just back a few levels/tiers/relics, but back to zero) and re-leveling/re-gearing them relative to the new importance GL’s are taking.

    I think the issue here is the direction they are giving. To summarize, it is conflicting at best.

    On one hand they want to diversify the meta, yet now the bottle neck is GL only

    They want to ease the gear crunch, yet intro another kind of gear that makes the gearing more of a headache.

    They want to put the goal post at G13, yet introduce relics. Add in mods slicing and more relic levels.

    But the most important thing imo is this, what is the end goal in mind? What is the road ahead for the later half of 2021 ? Beyond all these relic updates and nerfs. Because all it seems now is that it is a cash grab and nothing more.

    Also the promises of content. Where are they? Yes conquest and all, what is next ? Since relics and gear and toon requirements can be updated so fast, why not update your contents faster ?

    Stop locking things out of the relic gate (requires R8). Why not do something that an average person can do just for fun ? (How about the sand box mode?)

    Just adding on to what I meant just for fun? The Mando journey guild was fun. Yet it wasn't tedious to gear. Most of my toons are still G8, but some of my friends are doing crazy things with them at relic levels.

    Give players a choice to choose what they want to pursue. Stop putting everything in the relic levels. And you might have solved 2 problems:

    1. New players won't be intimated by relics. As they can participate in it at low gear
    2. End game players can do side farms easier yet not detouring from their own current goals

    It is a win win. Your sales won't drop as there will still be people whom want to buy the character packs. Even your gear packs will sell as people are more willing to send as there is actual content to play around with.

    The original game way back when it first started was an experimental one. Players trying to figure out what is the meta. That is the fun part. Making everything GL is killing your core game. Think about that
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