Is something going to be done about Executor?

Replies

  • JaxonUop wrote: »
    So if that ability isn’t working for you, figure out a different strategy where it does work for you, instead of demanding the ability be changed to how you think it should be. I’m sure once someone shows you how to do it on YouTube, you’ll quit griping and think it’s the best ever.

    Well, the strategy is to only use it on HT, because otherwise you're going to lose whoever you use it on. That's appropriate to you? That the ability can only be used on HT, never being able to heal anyone else?
  • miguelfoo wrote: »
    I can win starting second with no problems at all, so I don’t see the problem, maybe you are using the wrong movements

    I'm sure you can provide a video.
    JaxonUop wrote: »
    So if that ability isn’t working for you, figure out a different strategy where it does work for you, instead of demanding the ability be changed to how you think it should be. I’m sure once someone shows you how to do it on YouTube, you’ll quit griping and think it’s the best ever.

    I'm sure you can share your strategy. Ideally with a video aswell.
    Legend#6873 | YouTube | swgoh.gg
  • How does AI use this heal/taunt on defense?
    If it is easier to win against a Exe with max abilities, that contradicts all logic.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    SSB wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Help_me wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    This has been brought up, both with this and the original post Scuba made.

    They are looking at the sentiment, advice given, and data to see if there is a need for intervention.

    Translation: even though they *say* you should never be punished for fully upgrading something, they don't actually mean it, and they will do nothing.

    If the win ratio shows that you do not have an advantage, despite the advice given, then you are not being punished. So they do mean it, but they try to back these kinds of changes up with data.

    Not sure what data they'll get. People didn't realize how dumb the ability was and just upgraded it to max, because that's what you're supposed to do.

    As it stands, we are currently telling everyone that hasn't upgraded it already to just leave it at level 6.

    Data would be the win ratio. If you have a higher win ratio when having the ability lower or not.

    Correct, and if that actually pushes a higher win ratio they are likely to take action.

    Except I would bet all of the 7* owners have it at max right now. Is the win ratio because of the ability? Or simply luck? Unless you have a bunch of 7* mirrors where one side has it level 8 and the other at leve 6, not sure how any data can help anything.

    Why do you think he asks for data? He knows it will be difficult to provide.

    Who asked for data?

    What kind of specific data are they looking for? Data can be manipulated in many ways. But you only need common sense to know that you don’t want your NON TANKS to be taunting

    Data that shows it allows for a higher win rate with the ability lower.

    You also only need common sense to not apply a taunt to a non tank unit.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Nilah wrote: »
    How does AI use this heal/taunt on defense?
    If it is easier to win against a Exe with max abilities, that contradicts all logic.

    That is what needs to be figured out, and what they are looking at. If lower abilities allows for a higher win rate, then they are likely to step in.

    If strategy, lineup, or other factors allow this to be mitigated, then they are likely to let it ride and let things sort themselves out. (This is more a general stance and not exactly applicable in this direct case, but it is information I thought worth sharing.)
  • Kyno wrote: »
    SSB wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Help_me wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    This has been brought up, both with this and the original post Scuba made.

    They are looking at the sentiment, advice given, and data to see if there is a need for intervention.

    Translation: even though they *say* you should never be punished for fully upgrading something, they don't actually mean it, and they will do nothing.

    If the win ratio shows that you do not have an advantage, despite the advice given, then you are not being punished. So they do mean it, but they try to back these kinds of changes up with data.

    Not sure what data they'll get. People didn't realize how dumb the ability was and just upgraded it to max, because that's what you're supposed to do.

    As it stands, we are currently telling everyone that hasn't upgraded it already to just leave it at level 6.

    Data would be the win ratio. If you have a higher win ratio when having the ability lower or not.

    Correct, and if that actually pushes a higher win ratio they are likely to take action.

    Except I would bet all of the 7* owners have it at max right now. Is the win ratio because of the ability? Or simply luck? Unless you have a bunch of 7* mirrors where one side has it level 8 and the other at leve 6, not sure how any data can help anything.

    Why do you think he asks for data? He knows it will be difficult to provide.

    Who asked for data?

    What kind of specific data are they looking for? Data can be manipulated in many ways. But you only need common sense to know that you don’t want your NON TANKS to be taunting

    Data that shows it allows for a higher win rate with the ability lower.

    You also only need common sense to not apply a taunt to a non tank unit.

    Sure, except that means you can never heal your RC, who is always close to death because the AI targets him.
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nilah wrote: »
    How does AI use this heal/taunt on defense?
    If it is easier to win against a Exe with max abilities, that contradicts all logic.

    That is what needs to be figured out, and what they are looking at. If lower abilities allows for a higher win rate, then they are likely to step in.

    If strategy, lineup, or other factors allow this to be mitigated, then they are likely to let it ride and let things sort themselves out. (This is more a general stance and not exactly applicable in this direct case, but it is information I thought worth sharing.)

    It's a nice escape strategy for them, since they will basically never get proper data for this because you are really unlikely to get much data from 7* mirrors where one has the ability fully upgraded and one does not.
  • If there is a chance to revert this ability I want it!
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    SSB wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Help_me wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    This has been brought up, both with this and the original post Scuba made.

    They are looking at the sentiment, advice given, and data to see if there is a need for intervention.

    Translation: even though they *say* you should never be punished for fully upgrading something, they don't actually mean it, and they will do nothing.

    If the win ratio shows that you do not have an advantage, despite the advice given, then you are not being punished. So they do mean it, but they try to back these kinds of changes up with data.

    Not sure what data they'll get. People didn't realize how dumb the ability was and just upgraded it to max, because that's what you're supposed to do.

    As it stands, we are currently telling everyone that hasn't upgraded it already to just leave it at level 6.

    Data would be the win ratio. If you have a higher win ratio when having the ability lower or not.

    Correct, and if that actually pushes a higher win ratio they are likely to take action.

    Except I would bet all of the 7* owners have it at max right now. Is the win ratio because of the ability? Or simply luck? Unless you have a bunch of 7* mirrors where one side has it level 8 and the other at leve 6, not sure how any data can help anything.

    Why do you think he asks for data? He knows it will be difficult to provide.

    Who asked for data?

    What kind of specific data are they looking for? Data can be manipulated in many ways. But you only need common sense to know that you don’t want your NON TANKS to be taunting

    Data that shows it allows for a higher win rate with the ability lower.

    You also only need common sense to not apply a taunt to a non tank unit.

    Sure, except that means you can never heal your RC, who is always close to death because the AI targets him.
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nilah wrote: »
    How does AI use this heal/taunt on defense?
    If it is easier to win against a Exe with max abilities, that contradicts all logic.

    That is what needs to be figured out, and what they are looking at. If lower abilities allows for a higher win rate, then they are likely to step in.

    If strategy, lineup, or other factors allow this to be mitigated, then they are likely to let it ride and let things sort themselves out. (This is more a general stance and not exactly applicable in this direct case, but it is information I thought worth sharing.)

    It's a nice escape strategy for them, since they will basically never get proper data for this because you are really unlikely to get much data from 7* mirrors where one has the ability fully upgraded and one does not.

    It would also be boosting the non 7* win rate, wouldnt it? So that would still be data points they could look at.

    I dont see how they could not get good data. It seem so obvious "now" and recommended that at least some of the last round of 7* would have taken the suggestion and rolled with it.

    Do you really think they should make kit changes without being able to back it up with data? That seems like a bad road to go down. How many characters have been OP, or became OP, but where first seen as a flop? Like it or not, it does seem like a more prudent line of action.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    SSB wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Help_me wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    This has been brought up, both with this and the original post Scuba made.

    They are looking at the sentiment, advice given, and data to see if there is a need for intervention.

    Translation: even though they *say* you should never be punished for fully upgrading something, they don't actually mean it, and they will do nothing.

    If the win ratio shows that you do not have an advantage, despite the advice given, then you are not being punished. So they do mean it, but they try to back these kinds of changes up with data.

    Not sure what data they'll get. People didn't realize how dumb the ability was and just upgraded it to max, because that's what you're supposed to do.

    As it stands, we are currently telling everyone that hasn't upgraded it already to just leave it at level 6.

    Data would be the win ratio. If you have a higher win ratio when having the ability lower or not.

    Correct, and if that actually pushes a higher win ratio they are likely to take action.

    Except I would bet all of the 7* owners have it at max right now. Is the win ratio because of the ability? Or simply luck? Unless you have a bunch of 7* mirrors where one side has it level 8 and the other at leve 6, not sure how any data can help anything.

    Why do you think he asks for data? He knows it will be difficult to provide.

    Who asked for data?

    What kind of specific data are they looking for? Data can be manipulated in many ways. But you only need common sense to know that you don’t want your NON TANKS to be taunting

    Data that shows it allows for a higher win rate with the ability lower.

    You also only need common sense to not apply a taunt to a non tank unit.

    Sure, except that means you can never heal your RC, who is always close to death because the AI targets him.
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nilah wrote: »
    How does AI use this heal/taunt on defense?
    If it is easier to win against a Exe with max abilities, that contradicts all logic.

    That is what needs to be figured out, and what they are looking at. If lower abilities allows for a higher win rate, then they are likely to step in.

    If strategy, lineup, or other factors allow this to be mitigated, then they are likely to let it ride and let things sort themselves out. (This is more a general stance and not exactly applicable in this direct case, but it is information I thought worth sharing.)

    It's a nice escape strategy for them, since they will basically never get proper data for this because you are really unlikely to get much data from 7* mirrors where one has the ability fully upgraded and one does not.

    It would also be boosting the non 7* win rate, wouldnt it? So that would still be data points they could look at.

    I dont see how they could not get good data. It seem so obvious "now" and recommended that at least some of the last round of 7* would have taken the suggestion and rolled with it.

    Do you really think they should make kit changes without being able to back it up with data? That seems like a bad road to go down. How many characters have been OP, or became OP, but where first seen as a flop? Like it or not, it does seem like a more prudent line of action.

    From what I've seen 5* vs 7* is not very reliable, so I kind of doubt they'll get anything meaningful from that.

    But your logic is silly. Who has said that Executor is a flop? Who has said it's anything except OP? All we're saying is that having an ability that is objectively worse when fully upgraded is directly counter to what they've said they want. So either they don't actually mean that, or they need to change the ability because the last ability upgrade is 100% useless.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    SSB wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Help_me wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    This has been brought up, both with this and the original post Scuba made.

    They are looking at the sentiment, advice given, and data to see if there is a need for intervention.

    Translation: even though they *say* you should never be punished for fully upgrading something, they don't actually mean it, and they will do nothing.

    If the win ratio shows that you do not have an advantage, despite the advice given, then you are not being punished. So they do mean it, but they try to back these kinds of changes up with data.

    Not sure what data they'll get. People didn't realize how dumb the ability was and just upgraded it to max, because that's what you're supposed to do.

    As it stands, we are currently telling everyone that hasn't upgraded it already to just leave it at level 6.

    Data would be the win ratio. If you have a higher win ratio when having the ability lower or not.

    Correct, and if that actually pushes a higher win ratio they are likely to take action.

    Except I would bet all of the 7* owners have it at max right now. Is the win ratio because of the ability? Or simply luck? Unless you have a bunch of 7* mirrors where one side has it level 8 and the other at leve 6, not sure how any data can help anything.

    Why do you think he asks for data? He knows it will be difficult to provide.

    Who asked for data?

    What kind of specific data are they looking for? Data can be manipulated in many ways. But you only need common sense to know that you don’t want your NON TANKS to be taunting

    Data that shows it allows for a higher win rate with the ability lower.

    You also only need common sense to not apply a taunt to a non tank unit.

    Sure, except that means you can never heal your RC, who is always close to death because the AI targets him.
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nilah wrote: »
    How does AI use this heal/taunt on defense?
    If it is easier to win against a Exe with max abilities, that contradicts all logic.

    That is what needs to be figured out, and what they are looking at. If lower abilities allows for a higher win rate, then they are likely to step in.

    If strategy, lineup, or other factors allow this to be mitigated, then they are likely to let it ride and let things sort themselves out. (This is more a general stance and not exactly applicable in this direct case, but it is information I thought worth sharing.)

    It's a nice escape strategy for them, since they will basically never get proper data for this because you are really unlikely to get much data from 7* mirrors where one has the ability fully upgraded and one does not.

    It would also be boosting the non 7* win rate, wouldnt it? So that would still be data points they could look at.

    I dont see how they could not get good data. It seem so obvious "now" and recommended that at least some of the last round of 7* would have taken the suggestion and rolled with it.

    Do you really think they should make kit changes without being able to back it up with data? That seems like a bad road to go down. How many characters have been OP, or became OP, but where first seen as a flop? Like it or not, it does seem like a more prudent line of action.

    From what I've seen 5* vs 7* is not very reliable, so I kind of doubt they'll get anything meaningful from that.

    But your logic is silly. Who has said that Executor is a flop? Who has said it's anything except OP? All we're saying is that having an ability that is objectively worse when fully upgraded is directly counter to what they've said they want. So either they don't actually mean that, or they need to change the ability because the last ability upgrade is 100% useless.

    I didnt say the executor was a flop, I was extending the idea of making changes not based on data, but based on sentiment. We have seen many calls for changes that in the end didnt seem to be necessary, that is all.

    An ability being seen as worse due to its rather specific nature but having no effect on the outcome of the battle does not make it bad.

    Something being better would have an effect on the battle, wouldnt it?
  • Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    SSB wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Help_me wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    This has been brought up, both with this and the original post Scuba made.

    They are looking at the sentiment, advice given, and data to see if there is a need for intervention.

    Translation: even though they *say* you should never be punished for fully upgrading something, they don't actually mean it, and they will do nothing.

    If the win ratio shows that you do not have an advantage, despite the advice given, then you are not being punished. So they do mean it, but they try to back these kinds of changes up with data.

    Not sure what data they'll get. People didn't realize how dumb the ability was and just upgraded it to max, because that's what you're supposed to do.

    As it stands, we are currently telling everyone that hasn't upgraded it already to just leave it at level 6.

    Data would be the win ratio. If you have a higher win ratio when having the ability lower or not.

    Correct, and if that actually pushes a higher win ratio they are likely to take action.

    Except I would bet all of the 7* owners have it at max right now. Is the win ratio because of the ability? Or simply luck? Unless you have a bunch of 7* mirrors where one side has it level 8 and the other at leve 6, not sure how any data can help anything.

    Why do you think he asks for data? He knows it will be difficult to provide.

    Who asked for data?

    What kind of specific data are they looking for? Data can be manipulated in many ways. But you only need common sense to know that you don’t want your NON TANKS to be taunting

    Data that shows it allows for a higher win rate with the ability lower.

    You also only need common sense to not apply a taunt to a non tank unit.

    Sure, except that means you can never heal your RC, who is always close to death because the AI targets him.
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nilah wrote: »
    How does AI use this heal/taunt on defense?
    If it is easier to win against a Exe with max abilities, that contradicts all logic.

    That is what needs to be figured out, and what they are looking at. If lower abilities allows for a higher win rate, then they are likely to step in.

    If strategy, lineup, or other factors allow this to be mitigated, then they are likely to let it ride and let things sort themselves out. (This is more a general stance and not exactly applicable in this direct case, but it is information I thought worth sharing.)

    It's a nice escape strategy for them, since they will basically never get proper data for this because you are really unlikely to get much data from 7* mirrors where one has the ability fully upgraded and one does not.

    It would also be boosting the non 7* win rate, wouldnt it? So that would still be data points they could look at.

    I dont see how they could not get good data. It seem so obvious "now" and recommended that at least some of the last round of 7* would have taken the suggestion and rolled with it.

    Do you really think they should make kit changes without being able to back it up with data? That seems like a bad road to go down. How many characters have been OP, or became OP, but where first seen as a flop? Like it or not, it does seem like a more prudent line of action.

    From what I've seen 5* vs 7* is not very reliable, so I kind of doubt they'll get anything meaningful from that.

    But your logic is silly. Who has said that Executor is a flop? Who has said it's anything except OP? All we're saying is that having an ability that is objectively worse when fully upgraded is directly counter to what they've said they want. So either they don't actually mean that, or they need to change the ability because the last ability upgrade is 100% useless.

    I didnt say the executor was a flop, I was extending the idea of making changes not based on data, but based on sentiment. We have seen many calls for changes that in the end didnt seem to be necessary, that is all.

    An ability being seen as worse due to its rather specific nature but having no effect on the outcome of the battle does not make it bad.

    Something being better would have an effect on the battle, wouldnt it?

    You don’t need an insane amount of data to see that an ability that puts taunt on an attacker or support unit that needs to be healed in the first place is asinine. Kind of like slave 1 getting taunt when he reinforces. It’s bad design
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    SSB wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Help_me wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    This has been brought up, both with this and the original post Scuba made.

    They are looking at the sentiment, advice given, and data to see if there is a need for intervention.

    Translation: even though they *say* you should never be punished for fully upgrading something, they don't actually mean it, and they will do nothing.

    If the win ratio shows that you do not have an advantage, despite the advice given, then you are not being punished. So they do mean it, but they try to back these kinds of changes up with data.

    Not sure what data they'll get. People didn't realize how dumb the ability was and just upgraded it to max, because that's what you're supposed to do.

    As it stands, we are currently telling everyone that hasn't upgraded it already to just leave it at level 6.

    Data would be the win ratio. If you have a higher win ratio when having the ability lower or not.

    Correct, and if that actually pushes a higher win ratio they are likely to take action.

    Except I would bet all of the 7* owners have it at max right now. Is the win ratio because of the ability? Or simply luck? Unless you have a bunch of 7* mirrors where one side has it level 8 and the other at leve 6, not sure how any data can help anything.

    Why do you think he asks for data? He knows it will be difficult to provide.

    Who asked for data?

    What kind of specific data are they looking for? Data can be manipulated in many ways. But you only need common sense to know that you don’t want your NON TANKS to be taunting

    Data that shows it allows for a higher win rate with the ability lower.

    You also only need common sense to not apply a taunt to a non tank unit.

    Sure, except that means you can never heal your RC, who is always close to death because the AI targets him.
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nilah wrote: »
    How does AI use this heal/taunt on defense?
    If it is easier to win against a Exe with max abilities, that contradicts all logic.

    That is what needs to be figured out, and what they are looking at. If lower abilities allows for a higher win rate, then they are likely to step in.

    If strategy, lineup, or other factors allow this to be mitigated, then they are likely to let it ride and let things sort themselves out. (This is more a general stance and not exactly applicable in this direct case, but it is information I thought worth sharing.)

    It's a nice escape strategy for them, since they will basically never get proper data for this because you are really unlikely to get much data from 7* mirrors where one has the ability fully upgraded and one does not.

    It would also be boosting the non 7* win rate, wouldnt it? So that would still be data points they could look at.

    I dont see how they could not get good data. It seem so obvious "now" and recommended that at least some of the last round of 7* would have taken the suggestion and rolled with it.

    Do you really think they should make kit changes without being able to back it up with data? That seems like a bad road to go down. How many characters have been OP, or became OP, but where first seen as a flop? Like it or not, it does seem like a more prudent line of action.

    From what I've seen 5* vs 7* is not very reliable, so I kind of doubt they'll get anything meaningful from that.

    But your logic is silly. Who has said that Executor is a flop? Who has said it's anything except OP? All we're saying is that having an ability that is objectively worse when fully upgraded is directly counter to what they've said they want. So either they don't actually mean that, or they need to change the ability because the last ability upgrade is 100% useless.

    I didnt say the executor was a flop, I was extending the idea of making changes not based on data, but based on sentiment. We have seen many calls for changes that in the end didnt seem to be necessary, that is all.

    An ability being seen as worse due to its rather specific nature but having no effect on the outcome of the battle does not make it bad.

    Something being better would have an effect on the battle, wouldnt it?

    You don’t need an insane amount of data to see that an ability that puts taunt on an attacker or support unit that needs to be healed in the first place is asinine. Kind of like slave 1 getting taunt when he reinforces. It’s bad design

    I agree, but is that the intent of the ability? Is using an ability in a "bad way" a reason they should change it?

    Does using it as a heal (with no taunt) increase your win rate? That is what actually matters. There is a difference between bad and different.

    Do you have any issues with slave 1 surviving? Personally, I don't.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    SSB wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Help_me wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    This has been brought up, both with this and the original post Scuba made.

    They are looking at the sentiment, advice given, and data to see if there is a need for intervention.

    Translation: even though they *say* you should never be punished for fully upgrading something, they don't actually mean it, and they will do nothing.

    If the win ratio shows that you do not have an advantage, despite the advice given, then you are not being punished. So they do mean it, but they try to back these kinds of changes up with data.

    Not sure what data they'll get. People didn't realize how dumb the ability was and just upgraded it to max, because that's what you're supposed to do.

    As it stands, we are currently telling everyone that hasn't upgraded it already to just leave it at level 6.

    Data would be the win ratio. If you have a higher win ratio when having the ability lower or not.

    Correct, and if that actually pushes a higher win ratio they are likely to take action.

    Except I would bet all of the 7* owners have it at max right now. Is the win ratio because of the ability? Or simply luck? Unless you have a bunch of 7* mirrors where one side has it level 8 and the other at leve 6, not sure how any data can help anything.

    Why do you think he asks for data? He knows it will be difficult to provide.

    Who asked for data?

    What kind of specific data are they looking for? Data can be manipulated in many ways. But you only need common sense to know that you don’t want your NON TANKS to be taunting

    Data that shows it allows for a higher win rate with the ability lower.

    You also only need common sense to not apply a taunt to a non tank unit.

    Sure, except that means you can never heal your RC, who is always close to death because the AI targets him.
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nilah wrote: »
    How does AI use this heal/taunt on defense?
    If it is easier to win against a Exe with max abilities, that contradicts all logic.

    That is what needs to be figured out, and what they are looking at. If lower abilities allows for a higher win rate, then they are likely to step in.

    If strategy, lineup, or other factors allow this to be mitigated, then they are likely to let it ride and let things sort themselves out. (This is more a general stance and not exactly applicable in this direct case, but it is information I thought worth sharing.)

    It's a nice escape strategy for them, since they will basically never get proper data for this because you are really unlikely to get much data from 7* mirrors where one has the ability fully upgraded and one does not.

    It would also be boosting the non 7* win rate, wouldnt it? So that would still be data points they could look at.

    I dont see how they could not get good data. It seem so obvious "now" and recommended that at least some of the last round of 7* would have taken the suggestion and rolled with it.

    Do you really think they should make kit changes without being able to back it up with data? That seems like a bad road to go down. How many characters have been OP, or became OP, but where first seen as a flop? Like it or not, it does seem like a more prudent line of action.

    From what I've seen 5* vs 7* is not very reliable, so I kind of doubt they'll get anything meaningful from that.

    But your logic is silly. Who has said that Executor is a flop? Who has said it's anything except OP? All we're saying is that having an ability that is objectively worse when fully upgraded is directly counter to what they've said they want. So either they don't actually mean that, or they need to change the ability because the last ability upgrade is 100% useless.

    I didnt say the executor was a flop, I was extending the idea of making changes not based on data, but based on sentiment. We have seen many calls for changes that in the end didnt seem to be necessary, that is all.

    An ability being seen as worse due to its rather specific nature but having no effect on the outcome of the battle does not make it bad.

    Something being better would have an effect on the battle, wouldnt it?

    You don’t need an insane amount of data to see that an ability that puts taunt on an attacker or support unit that needs to be healed in the first place is asinine. Kind of like slave 1 getting taunt when he reinforces. It’s bad design

    I agree, but is that the intent of the ability? Is using an ability in a "bad way" a reason they should change it?

    Does using it as a heal (with no taunt) increase your win rate? That is what actually matters. There is a difference between bad and different.

    Do you have any issues with slave 1 surviving? Personally, I don't.

    Depending on the matchup and point in the match, S1 will get obliterated.

    And the point of the ability is to heal. They simply need to change it to apply taunt to only tanks and you’ve fixed the “paper zombie” usage of the skill by not fully upgrading it.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    SSB wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Help_me wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    This has been brought up, both with this and the original post Scuba made.

    They are looking at the sentiment, advice given, and data to see if there is a need for intervention.

    Translation: even though they *say* you should never be punished for fully upgrading something, they don't actually mean it, and they will do nothing.

    If the win ratio shows that you do not have an advantage, despite the advice given, then you are not being punished. So they do mean it, but they try to back these kinds of changes up with data.

    Not sure what data they'll get. People didn't realize how dumb the ability was and just upgraded it to max, because that's what you're supposed to do.

    As it stands, we are currently telling everyone that hasn't upgraded it already to just leave it at level 6.

    Data would be the win ratio. If you have a higher win ratio when having the ability lower or not.

    Correct, and if that actually pushes a higher win ratio they are likely to take action.

    Except I would bet all of the 7* owners have it at max right now. Is the win ratio because of the ability? Or simply luck? Unless you have a bunch of 7* mirrors where one side has it level 8 and the other at leve 6, not sure how any data can help anything.

    Why do you think he asks for data? He knows it will be difficult to provide.

    Who asked for data?

    What kind of specific data are they looking for? Data can be manipulated in many ways. But you only need common sense to know that you don’t want your NON TANKS to be taunting

    Data that shows it allows for a higher win rate with the ability lower.

    You also only need common sense to not apply a taunt to a non tank unit.

    Sure, except that means you can never heal your RC, who is always close to death because the AI targets him.
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nilah wrote: »
    How does AI use this heal/taunt on defense?
    If it is easier to win against a Exe with max abilities, that contradicts all logic.

    That is what needs to be figured out, and what they are looking at. If lower abilities allows for a higher win rate, then they are likely to step in.

    If strategy, lineup, or other factors allow this to be mitigated, then they are likely to let it ride and let things sort themselves out. (This is more a general stance and not exactly applicable in this direct case, but it is information I thought worth sharing.)

    It's a nice escape strategy for them, since they will basically never get proper data for this because you are really unlikely to get much data from 7* mirrors where one has the ability fully upgraded and one does not.

    It would also be boosting the non 7* win rate, wouldnt it? So that would still be data points they could look at.

    I dont see how they could not get good data. It seem so obvious "now" and recommended that at least some of the last round of 7* would have taken the suggestion and rolled with it.

    Do you really think they should make kit changes without being able to back it up with data? That seems like a bad road to go down. How many characters have been OP, or became OP, but where first seen as a flop? Like it or not, it does seem like a more prudent line of action.

    From what I've seen 5* vs 7* is not very reliable, so I kind of doubt they'll get anything meaningful from that.

    But your logic is silly. Who has said that Executor is a flop? Who has said it's anything except OP? All we're saying is that having an ability that is objectively worse when fully upgraded is directly counter to what they've said they want. So either they don't actually mean that, or they need to change the ability because the last ability upgrade is 100% useless.

    I didnt say the executor was a flop, I was extending the idea of making changes not based on data, but based on sentiment. We have seen many calls for changes that in the end didnt seem to be necessary, that is all.

    An ability being seen as worse due to its rather specific nature but having no effect on the outcome of the battle does not make it bad.

    Something being better would have an effect on the battle, wouldnt it?

    You don’t need an insane amount of data to see that an ability that puts taunt on an attacker or support unit that needs to be healed in the first place is asinine. Kind of like slave 1 getting taunt when he reinforces. It’s bad design

    I agree, but is that the intent of the ability? Is using an ability in a "bad way" a reason they should change it?

    Does using it as a heal (with no taunt) increase your win rate? That is what actually matters. There is a difference between bad and different.

    Do you have any issues with slave 1 surviving? Personally, I don't.

    Depending on the matchup and point in the match, S1 will get obliterated.

    And the point of the ability is to heal. They simply need to change it to apply taunt to only tanks and you’ve fixed the “paper zombie” usage of the skill by not fully upgrading it.

    I dont disagree, but that doesnt make it bad, it still has its uses, as is. As always we will need to wait and see how things play out.
  • I think everyone is on the same page here. It's just worrisome that it takes so long to address it. I've been working in IT software for a long time and if this were live in a system I was responsible for I would lose sleep. Obviously we don't know the full scope of the general work process at CG but it seems like there is something/some people over there that are getting in the way. That could be for a variety of reasons. It just feels like they've let this game go at this point. I don't know... maybe they'll bring it back on the upswing. This game's lifecycle has certainly had its ups and downs.
  • HokieFiend wrote: »
    I think everyone is on the same page here. It's just worrisome that it takes so long to address it. I've been working in IT software for a long time and if this were live in a system I was responsible for I would lose sleep. Obviously we don't know the full scope of the general work process at CG but it seems like there is something/some people over there that are getting in the way. That could be for a variety of reasons. It just feels like they've let this game go at this point. I don't know... maybe they'll bring it back on the upswing. This game's lifecycle has certainly had its ups and downs.

    And it’s certainly down at this point. CG needs a win after these last few weeks
  • scuba
    14034 posts Member
    scuba wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    As of today I agree, buff executor!!

    Lol.
    Honestly I am not even asking for a buff or a change,
    1. I just want the abilities to work as they should. Not being able to cleanse on offense, while watching the defense do it is very frustrating, but well the bug wasn't caught soon enough after initial release so they will probably get around to it in 2+ years or so.

    I'm not an Executor owner yet, so I obviously have 0 experience in using the squad, but what exactly do you mean?
    Why can't you cleanse on offense but can do it on defense, could you explain it please? What prevents you from doing it on offense? As I said, I don't have the ship so not really sure what exactly you are talking about. But would love to know for the future, so would appreciate it if you explained it to me :smile:

    The cleanse on applying breech doesn't seems to work on offense. Seems to work fine for the AI, just not the player.
  • scuba
    14034 posts Member
    "they need to get proper data"
    Well to get proper data the bug(s) would need to be fixed first.
  • scuba wrote: »
    "they need to get proper data"
    Well to get proper data the bug(s) would need to be fixed first.

    To get the bugs fixed, CG would actually have to put the same care and urgency into fixing them as they do for bugs that help the player base rather than hurt them.
  • SpamFolder
    95 posts Member
    edited September 2021
    Worst meta! At least when you lost the Negotiator coin flip, there was still a way to play it and win. This is ridiculous and frustrating to everyone. Not a very healthy state of fleet arena.
  • Worst part of the game by far right now is Executor battles. I had a 5* and could beat 6 and 7* maybe 8 out of 10 battles. Took Exec to 6 star and now it’s almost unplayable. I finally figured out how to beat one of the 7* Executors in my shard, but the other one I have won 1 time and lost 15 times. It’s a joke. For the first time in my 5 years of playing I’m considering quitting. This is a terrible meta and more frustrating than fun for sure.
  • Worst part of the game by far right now is Executor battles. I had a 5* and could beat 6 and 7* maybe 8 out of 10 battles. Took Exec to 6 star and now it’s almost unplayable. I finally figured out how to beat one of the 7* Executors in my shard, but the other one I have won 1 time and lost 15 times. It’s a joke. For the first time in my 5 years of playing I’m considering quitting. This is a terrible meta and more frustrating than fun for sure.

    Exactly the same for me but now my 6 star executor gets beat up by 4 and 5 star ones as well... just give me all my resources back and I will gladly go back to 5 stars. What a joke!
  • Worst part of the game by far right now is Executor battles. I had a 5* and could beat 6 and 7* maybe 8 out of 10 battles. Took Exec to 6 star and now it’s almost unplayable. I finally figured out how to beat one of the 7* Executors in my shard, but the other one I have won 1 time and lost 15 times. It’s a joke. For the first time in my 5 years of playing I’m considering quitting. This is a terrible meta and more frustrating than fun for sure.

    Can you post a video of the battle(s)?
    Legend#6873 | YouTube | swgoh.gg
  • scuba wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    As of today I agree, buff executor!!

    Lol.
    Honestly I am not even asking for a buff or a change,
    1. I just want the abilities to work as they should. Not being able to cleanse on offense, while watching the defense do it is very frustrating, but well the bug wasn't caught soon enough after initial release so they will probably get around to it in 2+ years or so.

    I'm not an Executor owner yet, so I obviously have 0 experience in using the squad, but what exactly do you mean?
    Why can't you cleanse on offense but can do it on defense, could you explain it please? What prevents you from doing it on offense? As I said, I don't have the ship so not really sure what exactly you are talking about. But would love to know for the future, so would appreciate it if you explained it to me :smile:

    The cleanse on applying breech doesn't seems to work on offense. Seems to work fine for the AI, just not the player.

    Oh, so the ability literally doesn't do what it says in the description? So you apply breach and it doesn't cleanse?
  • scuba wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    As of today I agree, buff executor!!

    Lol.
    Honestly I am not even asking for a buff or a change,
    1. I just want the abilities to work as they should. Not being able to cleanse on offense, while watching the defense do it is very frustrating, but well the bug wasn't caught soon enough after initial release so they will probably get around to it in 2+ years or so.

    I'm not an Executor owner yet, so I obviously have 0 experience in using the squad, but what exactly do you mean?
    Why can't you cleanse on offense but can do it on defense, could you explain it please? What prevents you from doing it on offense? As I said, I don't have the ship so not really sure what exactly you are talking about. But would love to know for the future, so would appreciate it if you explained it to me :smile:

    The cleanse on applying breech doesn't seems to work on offense. Seems to work fine for the AI, just not the player.

    Oh, so the ability literally doesn't do what it says in the description? So you apply breach and it doesn't cleanse?

    No, it literally does what it says in the description. Except that currently it's bugged and it doesn't always do the cleanse for the player. It always works for the AI.
  • Legend91 wrote: »
    Worst part of the game by far right now is Executor battles. I had a 5* and could beat 6 and 7* maybe 8 out of 10 battles. Took Exec to 6 star and now it’s almost unplayable. I finally figured out how to beat one of the 7* Executors in my shard, but the other one I have won 1 time and lost 15 times. It’s a joke. For the first time in my 5 years of playing I’m considering quitting. This is a terrible meta and more frustrating than fun for sure.

    Can you post a video of the battle(s)?

    Sure I'll take a vid tonight. Here's the basics though. He mass attacks my RC so I have to cleanse or he will die.

    I taunt on his HT. If I taunt on his RC and then basic his RC with my RC to mark it, his fleet makes PO and the mark gets cleansed. If I try to mark his RC with XB calling RC, it gets cleansed because his fleet makes PO before he brings in a reinforcement. If I try to basic his HT, I can sometimes get mark on his RC but then his RC cleanses it when he breaches on his next turn. If after my first move of taunt on his HT I use RC special on his HT and call either ship to assist his fleet makes PO before calling in a reinforcement. In all of my losses I can't keep mark on his RC when I bring in S1. Ive tried bringing in Ebon Hawk to win the race to target lock and that doesn't work either. When his fleet makes PO and gets the speed bonus its essentially over
  • That’s a lot of acronyms.
This discussion has been closed.