[MEGA] State of the Gear-laxy

Replies

  • When are the changes coming?

    Another TW Mismatch so they can't come soon enough...

    Most of the changes appear positive, it goes some way towards repairing the damage that's gone before. People will be negative because of previous updates but I take some comfort in that it appears they are listening...

    Only time will tell!!!
    This is the Way
  • CallidusThorn
    14 posts Member
    edited October 2021
    Why not just universally double the drop rate of gear on all nodes? We all know how pitiful the drop rate can be, so doubling it would at least make farming gear slightly less painful than it is right now.

    For the same reason they do anything, to try and squeeze more out of us. Double the energy cost, crystals to refresh, getting us to pay for access to the better drop rate, one way or the other. All without actually making a change that benefits the players
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ne_alenska wrote: »
    More Stun Guns and Carabanti is excellent. Easing the gear crunch is awesome. I love that. TW matchmaking needs a rework. I hope that pans out as promised.

    The rest of it is just more stuff to eliminate smaller guilds. I've been in my for years. I'm the big homie. I usually get the top score in TB, TW, and raids. I donate the most gear, help other players find direction, answer the most questions... In recent months, I've taken on an officer role and contributed to TW and recruitment. I have helped turn around a guild that lost most of our TWs to winning most of our TWs through strategy, motivation, and coordination. I'm not taking full credit, but a lot of my ideas have been implemented.

    I've brought in lower-tier players to help them accelerate their growth. I can't even bring in mid-level players to my guild because we can't beat the CPit yet. We can't beat CPit because we can't bring people in. This is going to make it harder to fill spots. Everybody in the guild's growth is stunted because we can't accomplish these feats, which we can't accomplish because our growth is stunted.

    This isn't to say how great I am. This is to say, my leaving this guild would hurt it more than adding me to an elite guild would help them. An elite guild doesn't need me. They're already elite. I have four GLs. I could easily find an elite guild that would take me. I've had offers. I'm penalized for being loyal to my guild. To get the rewards I need to stay competitive in the solo parts of the game, I have to abandon the people I've been playing with for years, and the newer players I've brought in, and the players I've helped mentor. The only way I can get the materials I need without leaving my guild is to merc, which isn't always an option.

    Why does CG want to force me to abandon this guild that I've worked very hard to help improve or abandon the people I've been with for years because they're not as focused, disciplined, or motivated as me? CG doesn't make more money from me leaving my guild. So, why?

    Same here.... I don't know why, CG try to PUNISH the weak guilds since the CRancor

    They are not trying to punish anyone. A goal they will always have is a progressive system that promotes and rewards advancement. They outlined several rewards changes that do nothing at the too end, but give more to low/mid level guilds and players by leaving end tier rewards the same but having a flatter or less steep rewards progression.

    They might not be trying to but they do, there is no debate about that. Guilds in the 250-300 range will now either get over 300 or face the death spiral.

    Correct, they will grow into it, and yes some guilds along the way may not be able to hold it together. This is way more of a natural process than many make it out to be.

    Sure, totally natural process. Nothing at all to do with CG giving players in certain position very clear incentive to ditch their guild. Definitely not an artificial limit with effects so obvious that it had to be deliberate. Totally natural process.

    Can you explain how a progressive system doesn't always have a situation where it is better to be "at the top" where things are always going to be offered?

    No matter where they put the line, yes someone is going to not quite be there, and this applies to individuals and guilds. Yes 100% this is a natural thing in a progressive system.

    I think the problem you’re not addressing is how big the jump in progression is on the gate and the lack of an alternative to tw rewards. R8 was gated behind crancor where a 240 million guild has beaten it but to be safe let’s use 270. 270 works out to 5.4 million gp per player. The new gate is at 300 million or 6 million per player. While 600k gp for one player is certainly possible since the introduction of crancor 1.0, 30 million for a guild is unlikely especially with how tight the recruitment market is due to players quitting out of frustration.

    This is only part of the problem though. The other part is crancor Aeros scaled for the individual so those that worked the hardest to get the guild over the hump got rewarded more than their guild mates which incentives staying. It’s obviously better to be a big fish in a small pond than a small fish in a big pond. However, now cg is linking progression on the guild level. As all guild members get the the same reward and max reward is at the 7.6 million avg threshold.

    They’ve also already stated r9 will be used for future gls. Presumably one likely two but potentially more characters will need r9. Even if you presume that April is the earliest you’ll need r9 as a requirement, it’s a tight timeline for 300-320 million guilds as they need 20 victories per r9. So a 300-320 guild needs to go 20-4 in tw to earn enough for one r9. Yes it gets easier above 320 million but assuming 2 r9s a 320-340 guild would need to go 16-8. Which brings me back to my original point, the jump is incredibly severe on the gate. To expect a guild to grow from 270 million to 320 million in six months in order to keep its top end players happy with their progression is too much.

    Finally there is no alternative like conquest for r9 mats. While a dedicated player could have earned enough Aeros to have gotten jmk and have enough after the next conquest to get executor and therefore remain in guild that can’t beat cranco, they have no choice but to leave if they want the aprilish gl (or whenever it drops) sometime in 2022 and potentially we’ll into 2023.
  • Natetiffer wrote: »
    When are the changes coming?

    Another TW Mismatch so they can't come soon enough...

    Most of the changes appear positive, it goes some way towards repairing the damage that's gone before. People will be negative because of previous updates but I take some comfort in that it appears they are listening...

    Only time will tell!!!

    Your mismatch IS the new system at work. The changes resulted in similar or worse mismatches.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Olejandro wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Actually it is not guaranteed to break up guilds.

    There hasn't been? Can show guilds below 220m GP beating CRancor?

    I can show you. My guild for example. We beat the CRancor since 205M GP. Now we got 31*/20* at GeosTB, 3 years with no losses at TW in a row (hitting it this October), and we are on of the best resulted guilds at Russia & CIS region. There are a lot of great players with great rosters here. But now it seems like CG is saying us "go to hell" because we have "just" 240M. I hope CG will lose their players base just like <300M GP guilds losing their players right now. Hope this will make CG thinking and listen to the community. Every recent update I thought "lol, they can't do anything worse than that" but you always impress me. You just troll the community for last 6 months or maybe even an year.

    You are definitely one of the lowest guilds I have heard of doing this, congratulations.

    They are unlikely to adjust the numbers down to guild of your size, as they want to promote growth and development. Your guild can develop into this situation and many of these changes should be helping your lower members grow faster.
  • @Kyno Is there any date for Multi-Phase Gear Update Phase 1 release? Or when should we expect it roughly?
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Drathuk916 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ne_alenska wrote: »
    More Stun Guns and Carabanti is excellent. Easing the gear crunch is awesome. I love that. TW matchmaking needs a rework. I hope that pans out as promised.

    The rest of it is just more stuff to eliminate smaller guilds. I've been in my for years. I'm the big homie. I usually get the top score in TB, TW, and raids. I donate the most gear, help other players find direction, answer the most questions... In recent months, I've taken on an officer role and contributed to TW and recruitment. I have helped turn around a guild that lost most of our TWs to winning most of our TWs through strategy, motivation, and coordination. I'm not taking full credit, but a lot of my ideas have been implemented.

    I've brought in lower-tier players to help them accelerate their growth. I can't even bring in mid-level players to my guild because we can't beat the CPit yet. We can't beat CPit because we can't bring people in. This is going to make it harder to fill spots. Everybody in the guild's growth is stunted because we can't accomplish these feats, which we can't accomplish because our growth is stunted.

    This isn't to say how great I am. This is to say, my leaving this guild would hurt it more than adding me to an elite guild would help them. An elite guild doesn't need me. They're already elite. I have four GLs. I could easily find an elite guild that would take me. I've had offers. I'm penalized for being loyal to my guild. To get the rewards I need to stay competitive in the solo parts of the game, I have to abandon the people I've been playing with for years, and the newer players I've brought in, and the players I've helped mentor. The only way I can get the materials I need without leaving my guild is to merc, which isn't always an option.

    Why does CG want to force me to abandon this guild that I've worked very hard to help improve or abandon the people I've been with for years because they're not as focused, disciplined, or motivated as me? CG doesn't make more money from me leaving my guild. So, why?

    Same here.... I don't know why, CG try to PUNISH the weak guilds since the CRancor

    They are not trying to punish anyone. A goal they will always have is a progressive system that promotes and rewards advancement. They outlined several rewards changes that do nothing at the too end, but give more to low/mid level guilds and players by leaving end tier rewards the same but having a flatter or less steep rewards progression.

    They might not be trying to but they do, there is no debate about that. Guilds in the 250-300 range will now either get over 300 or face the death spiral.

    Correct, they will grow into it, and yes some guilds along the way may not be able to hold it together. This is way more of a natural process than many make it out to be.

    Sure, totally natural process. Nothing at all to do with CG giving players in certain position very clear incentive to ditch their guild. Definitely not an artificial limit with effects so obvious that it had to be deliberate. Totally natural process.

    Can you explain how a progressive system doesn't always have a situation where it is better to be "at the top" where things are always going to be offered?

    No matter where they put the line, yes someone is going to not quite be there, and this applies to individuals and guilds. Yes 100% this is a natural thing in a progressive system.

    I think the problem you’re not addressing is how big the jump in progression is on the gate and the lack of an alternative to tw rewards. R8 was gated behind crancor where a 240 million guild has beaten it but to be safe let’s use 270. 270 works out to 5.4 million gp per player. The new gate is at 300 million or 6 million per player. While 600k gp for one player is certainly possible since the introduction of crancor 1.0, 30 million for a guild is unlikely especially with how tight the recruitment market is due to players quitting out of frustration.

    This is only part of the problem though. The other part is crancor Aeros scaled for the individual so those that worked the hardest to get the guild over the hump got rewarded more than their guild mates which incentives staying. It’s obviously better to be a big fish in a small pond than a small fish in a big pond. However, now cg is linking progression on the guild level. As all guild members get the the same reward and max reward is at the 7.6 million avg threshold.

    They’ve also already stated r9 will be used for future gls. Presumably one likely two but potentially more characters will need r9. Even if you presume that April is the earliest you’ll need r9 as a requirement, it’s a tight timeline for 300-320 million guilds as they need 20 victories per r9. So a 300-320 guild needs to go 20-4 in tw to earn enough for one r9. Yes it gets easier above 320 million but assuming 2 r9s a 320-340 guild would need to go 16-8. Which brings me back to my original point, the jump is incredibly severe on the gate. To expect a guild to grow from 270 million to 320 million in six months in order to keep its top end players happy with their progression is too much.

    Finally there is no alternative like conquest for r9 mats. While a dedicated player could have earned enough Aeros to have gotten jmk and have enough after the next conquest to get executor and therefore remain in guild that can’t beat cranco, they have no choice but to leave if they want the aprilish gl (or whenever it drops) sometime in 2022 and potentially we’ll into 2023.

    In a progressive system, it seems to make sense r8 would have a lower GP and more attainable setup than r9, doesnt it?

    I don't know if it's a direct goal, but it seems like many situations benefit from a system where big fish little pond and little fish big pond are less likely to be accepted by guilds or players. But are still based on player agency.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Baibars wrote: »
    Kyno Is there any date for Multi-Phase Gear Update Phase 1 release? Or when should we expect it roughly?

    Around the RA, so hopefully this month, but I don't know directly
  • ShaggyB
    2390 posts Member
    Why are you dropping relic 9 before you make the phase 1 gear changes?

    Address the crunch then you can release new gear/relic gates.

    You jumped the shark again CG.
  • ShaggyB wrote: »
    Why are you dropping relic 9 before you make the phase 1 gear changes?

    Address the crunch then you can release new gear/relic gates.

    You jumped the shark again CG.

    money before Customer satisfaction..


    that's the way to run.. I mean RUIN a business..
  • Ultra
    11449 posts Moderator
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    Why are you dropping relic 9 before you make the phase 1 gear changes?

    Address the crunch then you can release new gear/relic gates.

    You jumped the shark again CG.

    R9 was delayed from August and is late as it is and was announced long before the gear changes
  • This update seems like a pretty bad overall deal for the players. TW is crazy and planning for it now has become a nightmare. You have absolutely no idea how many teams you might need to place. Maybe 30 maybe 50 you won't know till your matched because it appears to be based on the lowest GP of the participants.

    Way to respect people's time. When I wanted more stuff to do ingame I didn't think it would end up being more of the same stuff we do all ready. Conquest is awful now post changes. It was fun then that all got **** out of it with crazy feats and increased energy costs. TW needs even more time sunk into it. But hey it's ok I can save myself 20 minutes a week by simming Assault battles (which were usually just auto'd) instead I get to spend hours in conquest and TW.

    Bad deal for the players keep coming and no doubt driving more of the player base away. Hope CG get their act together before the new Star Wars mobile games start dropping.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Drathuk916 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ne_alenska wrote: »
    More Stun Guns and Carabanti is excellent. Easing the gear crunch is awesome. I love that. TW matchmaking needs a rework. I hope that pans out as promised.

    The rest of it is just more stuff to eliminate smaller guilds. I've been in my for years. I'm the big homie. I usually get the top score in TB, TW, and raids. I donate the most gear, help other players find direction, answer the most questions... In recent months, I've taken on an officer role and contributed to TW and recruitment. I have helped turn around a guild that lost most of our TWs to winning most of our TWs through strategy, motivation, and coordination. I'm not taking full credit, but a lot of my ideas have been implemented.

    I've brought in lower-tier players to help them accelerate their growth. I can't even bring in mid-level players to my guild because we can't beat the CPit yet. We can't beat CPit because we can't bring people in. This is going to make it harder to fill spots. Everybody in the guild's growth is stunted because we can't accomplish these feats, which we can't accomplish because our growth is stunted.

    This isn't to say how great I am. This is to say, my leaving this guild would hurt it more than adding me to an elite guild would help them. An elite guild doesn't need me. They're already elite. I have four GLs. I could easily find an elite guild that would take me. I've had offers. I'm penalized for being loyal to my guild. To get the rewards I need to stay competitive in the solo parts of the game, I have to abandon the people I've been playing with for years, and the newer players I've brought in, and the players I've helped mentor. The only way I can get the materials I need without leaving my guild is to merc, which isn't always an option.

    Why does CG want to force me to abandon this guild that I've worked very hard to help improve or abandon the people I've been with for years because they're not as focused, disciplined, or motivated as me? CG doesn't make more money from me leaving my guild. So, why?

    Same here.... I don't know why, CG try to PUNISH the weak guilds since the CRancor

    They are not trying to punish anyone. A goal they will always have is a progressive system that promotes and rewards advancement. They outlined several rewards changes that do nothing at the too end, but give more to low/mid level guilds and players by leaving end tier rewards the same but having a flatter or less steep rewards progression.

    They might not be trying to but they do, there is no debate about that. Guilds in the 250-300 range will now either get over 300 or face the death spiral.

    Correct, they will grow into it, and yes some guilds along the way may not be able to hold it together. This is way more of a natural process than many make it out to be.

    Sure, totally natural process. Nothing at all to do with CG giving players in certain position very clear incentive to ditch their guild. Definitely not an artificial limit with effects so obvious that it had to be deliberate. Totally natural process.

    Can you explain how a progressive system doesn't always have a situation where it is better to be "at the top" where things are always going to be offered?

    No matter where they put the line, yes someone is going to not quite be there, and this applies to individuals and guilds. Yes 100% this is a natural thing in a progressive system.

    I think the problem you’re not addressing is how big the jump in progression is on the gate and the lack of an alternative to tw rewards. R8 was gated behind crancor where a 240 million guild has beaten it but to be safe let’s use 270. 270 works out to 5.4 million gp per player. The new gate is at 300 million or 6 million per player. While 600k gp for one player is certainly possible since the introduction of crancor 1.0, 30 million for a guild is unlikely especially with how tight the recruitment market is due to players quitting out of frustration.

    This is only part of the problem though. The other part is crancor Aeros scaled for the individual so those that worked the hardest to get the guild over the hump got rewarded more than their guild mates which incentives staying. It’s obviously better to be a big fish in a small pond than a small fish in a big pond. However, now cg is linking progression on the guild level. As all guild members get the the same reward and max reward is at the 7.6 million avg threshold.

    They’ve also already stated r9 will be used for future gls. Presumably one likely two but potentially more characters will need r9. Even if you presume that April is the earliest you’ll need r9 as a requirement, it’s a tight timeline for 300-320 million guilds as they need 20 victories per r9. So a 300-320 guild needs to go 20-4 in tw to earn enough for one r9. Yes it gets easier above 320 million but assuming 2 r9s a 320-340 guild would need to go 16-8. Which brings me back to my original point, the jump is incredibly severe on the gate. To expect a guild to grow from 270 million to 320 million in six months in order to keep its top end players happy with their progression is too much.

    Finally there is no alternative like conquest for r9 mats. While a dedicated player could have earned enough Aeros to have gotten jmk and have enough after the next conquest to get executor and therefore remain in guild that can’t beat cranco, they have no choice but to leave if they want the aprilish gl (or whenever it drops) sometime in 2022 and potentially we’ll into 2023.

    In a progressive system, it seems to make sense r8 would have a lower GP and more attainable setup than r9, doesnt it?

    I don't know if it's a direct goal, but it seems like many situations benefit from a system where big fish little pond and little fish big pond are less likely to be accepted by guilds or players. But are still based on player agency.

    Obviously r9 should be more difficult to get than r8. I said the increase between the gate was too much and the elimination of an alternate but slower source was wrong.

    I completely disagree with the idea that it is healthy for cg to force their players to choose between personal progression and their friends. I’m not saying a kraken in a 250-300 million guild should progress as fast as a member in a 380 million guild. I am saying the kraken shouldn’t be prevented from progression in it’s entirety except for 150 per r9.
  • Things to keep in mind:

    This is the first phase of addressing the gear economy, not the final phase.

    The TW MM changes are meant to create more competitive match-ups and discourage sandbagging.

    @CG_Doja_Fett_MINI Looking like an epic fail on the second part of that. Somehow you made sandbagging even worse by creating more incentive to sandbag and also creating even more disparate match-ups than before. Matchmaking should be looking at the average GP of the participating players to further narrow the match-ups within the pool of guilds that have similar combined participating GP. Sandbagging problem solved....you're welcome.
  • ShaggyB
    2390 posts Member
    Ultra wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    Why are you dropping relic 9 before you make the phase 1 gear changes?

    Address the crunch then you can release new gear/relic gates.

    You jumped the shark again CG.

    R9 was delayed from August and is late as it is and was announced long before the gear changes

    And?

    Weve been complaining about gear crunch going from 5 to 12 since relic 7 dropped.

    They could and should fix it before they dropped relic 9.

    Dropping relic 9 and then telling us how a future update will give some relief is just not good. Do phase 1, then drop relic 9.

    Fix your long running issue on gear economy then raise the cap and add new relic gear
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Drathuk916 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Drathuk916 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ne_alenska wrote: »
    More Stun Guns and Carabanti is excellent. Easing the gear crunch is awesome. I love that. TW matchmaking needs a rework. I hope that pans out as promised.

    The rest of it is just more stuff to eliminate smaller guilds. I've been in my for years. I'm the big homie. I usually get the top score in TB, TW, and raids. I donate the most gear, help other players find direction, answer the most questions... In recent months, I've taken on an officer role and contributed to TW and recruitment. I have helped turn around a guild that lost most of our TWs to winning most of our TWs through strategy, motivation, and coordination. I'm not taking full credit, but a lot of my ideas have been implemented.

    I've brought in lower-tier players to help them accelerate their growth. I can't even bring in mid-level players to my guild because we can't beat the CPit yet. We can't beat CPit because we can't bring people in. This is going to make it harder to fill spots. Everybody in the guild's growth is stunted because we can't accomplish these feats, which we can't accomplish because our growth is stunted.

    This isn't to say how great I am. This is to say, my leaving this guild would hurt it more than adding me to an elite guild would help them. An elite guild doesn't need me. They're already elite. I have four GLs. I could easily find an elite guild that would take me. I've had offers. I'm penalized for being loyal to my guild. To get the rewards I need to stay competitive in the solo parts of the game, I have to abandon the people I've been playing with for years, and the newer players I've brought in, and the players I've helped mentor. The only way I can get the materials I need without leaving my guild is to merc, which isn't always an option.

    Why does CG want to force me to abandon this guild that I've worked very hard to help improve or abandon the people I've been with for years because they're not as focused, disciplined, or motivated as me? CG doesn't make more money from me leaving my guild. So, why?

    Same here.... I don't know why, CG try to PUNISH the weak guilds since the CRancor

    They are not trying to punish anyone. A goal they will always have is a progressive system that promotes and rewards advancement. They outlined several rewards changes that do nothing at the too end, but give more to low/mid level guilds and players by leaving end tier rewards the same but having a flatter or less steep rewards progression.

    They might not be trying to but they do, there is no debate about that. Guilds in the 250-300 range will now either get over 300 or face the death spiral.

    Correct, they will grow into it, and yes some guilds along the way may not be able to hold it together. This is way more of a natural process than many make it out to be.

    Sure, totally natural process. Nothing at all to do with CG giving players in certain position very clear incentive to ditch their guild. Definitely not an artificial limit with effects so obvious that it had to be deliberate. Totally natural process.

    Can you explain how a progressive system doesn't always have a situation where it is better to be "at the top" where things are always going to be offered?

    No matter where they put the line, yes someone is going to not quite be there, and this applies to individuals and guilds. Yes 100% this is a natural thing in a progressive system.

    I think the problem you’re not addressing is how big the jump in progression is on the gate and the lack of an alternative to tw rewards. R8 was gated behind crancor where a 240 million guild has beaten it but to be safe let’s use 270. 270 works out to 5.4 million gp per player. The new gate is at 300 million or 6 million per player. While 600k gp for one player is certainly possible since the introduction of crancor 1.0, 30 million for a guild is unlikely especially with how tight the recruitment market is due to players quitting out of frustration.

    This is only part of the problem though. The other part is crancor Aeros scaled for the individual so those that worked the hardest to get the guild over the hump got rewarded more than their guild mates which incentives staying. It’s obviously better to be a big fish in a small pond than a small fish in a big pond. However, now cg is linking progression on the guild level. As all guild members get the the same reward and max reward is at the 7.6 million avg threshold.

    They’ve also already stated r9 will be used for future gls. Presumably one likely two but potentially more characters will need r9. Even if you presume that April is the earliest you’ll need r9 as a requirement, it’s a tight timeline for 300-320 million guilds as they need 20 victories per r9. So a 300-320 guild needs to go 20-4 in tw to earn enough for one r9. Yes it gets easier above 320 million but assuming 2 r9s a 320-340 guild would need to go 16-8. Which brings me back to my original point, the jump is incredibly severe on the gate. To expect a guild to grow from 270 million to 320 million in six months in order to keep its top end players happy with their progression is too much.

    Finally there is no alternative like conquest for r9 mats. While a dedicated player could have earned enough Aeros to have gotten jmk and have enough after the next conquest to get executor and therefore remain in guild that can’t beat cranco, they have no choice but to leave if they want the aprilish gl (or whenever it drops) sometime in 2022 and potentially we’ll into 2023.

    In a progressive system, it seems to make sense r8 would have a lower GP and more attainable setup than r9, doesnt it?

    I don't know if it's a direct goal, but it seems like many situations benefit from a system where big fish little pond and little fish big pond are less likely to be accepted by guilds or players. But are still based on player agency.

    Obviously r9 should be more difficult to get than r8. I said the increase between the gate was too much and the elimination of an alternate but slower source was wrong.

    I completely disagree with the idea that it is healthy for cg to force their players to choose between personal progression and their friends. I’m not saying a kraken in a 250-300 million guild should progress as fast as a member in a 380 million guild. I am saying the kraken shouldn’t be prevented from progression in it’s entirety except for 150 per r9.

    The highest level being the most restrictive path makes sense, I'm sure other alternatives will open up over time.

    No player is prevented from progress in its entirety, things always start more restricted and then open up over time. They are delayed, but this is the choices that we all make, and it has always been this way in any progressive system.

    If you want to be at the top end and do so efficiently, you have always needed to be in a top end guild. Better TB and TW rewards along with getting raids on farm more readily is a key to staying in the top of the game in the cheapest way possible. Players often disregard certain aspects of rewards when the difference seems small, bit over time these repeat events make a difference.
  • Things to keep in mind:

    This is the first phase of addressing the gear economy, not the final phase.

    The TW MM changes are meant to create more competitive match-ups and discourage sandbagging.

    @CG_Doja_Fett_MINI Looking like an epic fail on the second part of that. Somehow you made sandbagging even worse by creating more incentive to sandbag and also creating even more disparate match-ups than before. Matchmaking should be looking at the average GP of the participating players to further narrow the match-ups within the pool of guilds that have similar combined participating GP. Sandbagging problem solved....you're welcome.

    It’s been ONE TW. As much as I would like to bash CG, I at least got a fair matchup. You can’t judge a system after ONE TIME.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Drathuk916 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Drathuk916 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ne_alenska wrote: »
    More Stun Guns and Carabanti is excellent. Easing the gear crunch is awesome. I love that. TW matchmaking needs a rework. I hope that pans out as promised.

    The rest of it is just more stuff to eliminate smaller guilds. I've been in my for years. I'm the big homie. I usually get the top score in TB, TW, and raids. I donate the most gear, help other players find direction, answer the most questions... In recent months, I've taken on an officer role and contributed to TW and recruitment. I have helped turn around a guild that lost most of our TWs to winning most of our TWs through strategy, motivation, and coordination. I'm not taking full credit, but a lot of my ideas have been implemented.

    I've brought in lower-tier players to help them accelerate their growth. I can't even bring in mid-level players to my guild because we can't beat the CPit yet. We can't beat CPit because we can't bring people in. This is going to make it harder to fill spots. Everybody in the guild's growth is stunted because we can't accomplish these feats, which we can't accomplish because our growth is stunted.

    This isn't to say how great I am. This is to say, my leaving this guild would hurt it more than adding me to an elite guild would help them. An elite guild doesn't need me. They're already elite. I have four GLs. I could easily find an elite guild that would take me. I've had offers. I'm penalized for being loyal to my guild. To get the rewards I need to stay competitive in the solo parts of the game, I have to abandon the people I've been playing with for years, and the newer players I've brought in, and the players I've helped mentor. The only way I can get the materials I need without leaving my guild is to merc, which isn't always an option.

    Why does CG want to force me to abandon this guild that I've worked very hard to help improve or abandon the people I've been with for years because they're not as focused, disciplined, or motivated as me? CG doesn't make more money from me leaving my guild. So, why?

    Same here.... I don't know why, CG try to PUNISH the weak guilds since the CRancor

    They are not trying to punish anyone. A goal they will always have is a progressive system that promotes and rewards advancement. They outlined several rewards changes that do nothing at the too end, but give more to low/mid level guilds and players by leaving end tier rewards the same but having a flatter or less steep rewards progression.

    They might not be trying to but they do, there is no debate about that. Guilds in the 250-300 range will now either get over 300 or face the death spiral.

    Correct, they will grow into it, and yes some guilds along the way may not be able to hold it together. This is way more of a natural process than many make it out to be.

    Sure, totally natural process. Nothing at all to do with CG giving players in certain position very clear incentive to ditch their guild. Definitely not an artificial limit with effects so obvious that it had to be deliberate. Totally natural process.

    Can you explain how a progressive system doesn't always have a situation where it is better to be "at the top" where things are always going to be offered?

    No matter where they put the line, yes someone is going to not quite be there, and this applies to individuals and guilds. Yes 100% this is a natural thing in a progressive system.

    I think the problem you’re not addressing is how big the jump in progression is on the gate and the lack of an alternative to tw rewards. R8 was gated behind crancor where a 240 million guild has beaten it but to be safe let’s use 270. 270 works out to 5.4 million gp per player. The new gate is at 300 million or 6 million per player. While 600k gp for one player is certainly possible since the introduction of crancor 1.0, 30 million for a guild is unlikely especially with how tight the recruitment market is due to players quitting out of frustration.

    This is only part of the problem though. The other part is crancor Aeros scaled for the individual so those that worked the hardest to get the guild over the hump got rewarded more than their guild mates which incentives staying. It’s obviously better to be a big fish in a small pond than a small fish in a big pond. However, now cg is linking progression on the guild level. As all guild members get the the same reward and max reward is at the 7.6 million avg threshold.

    They’ve also already stated r9 will be used for future gls. Presumably one likely two but potentially more characters will need r9. Even if you presume that April is the earliest you’ll need r9 as a requirement, it’s a tight timeline for 300-320 million guilds as they need 20 victories per r9. So a 300-320 guild needs to go 20-4 in tw to earn enough for one r9. Yes it gets easier above 320 million but assuming 2 r9s a 320-340 guild would need to go 16-8. Which brings me back to my original point, the jump is incredibly severe on the gate. To expect a guild to grow from 270 million to 320 million in six months in order to keep its top end players happy with their progression is too much.

    Finally there is no alternative like conquest for r9 mats. While a dedicated player could have earned enough Aeros to have gotten jmk and have enough after the next conquest to get executor and therefore remain in guild that can’t beat cranco, they have no choice but to leave if they want the aprilish gl (or whenever it drops) sometime in 2022 and potentially we’ll into 2023.

    In a progressive system, it seems to make sense r8 would have a lower GP and more attainable setup than r9, doesnt it?

    I don't know if it's a direct goal, but it seems like many situations benefit from a system where big fish little pond and little fish big pond are less likely to be accepted by guilds or players. But are still based on player agency.

    Obviously r9 should be more difficult to get than r8. I said the increase between the gate was too much and the elimination of an alternate but slower source was wrong.

    I completely disagree with the idea that it is healthy for cg to force their players to choose between personal progression and their friends. I’m not saying a kraken in a 250-300 million guild should progress as fast as a member in a 380 million guild. I am saying the kraken shouldn’t be prevented from progression in it’s entirety except for 150 per r9.

    The highest level being the most restrictive path makes sense, I'm sure other alternatives will open up over time.

    No player is prevented from progress in its entirety, things always start more restricted and then open up over time. They are delayed, but this is the choices that we all make, and it has always been this way in any progressive system.

    If you want to be at the top end and do so efficiently, you have always needed to be in a top end guild. Better TB and TW rewards along with getting raids on farm more readily is a key to staying in the top of the game in the cheapest way possible. Players often disregard certain aspects of rewards when the difference seems small, bit over time these repeat events make a difference.

    Come on kyno, I’m not disagreeing with progressive systems. I’ve been saying in now my third post the jump was too much. 240-270 was the gate for crancor 2.0 which under the changed system now gets you enough Aeros for 21 r8s a year. 300 million now gets you 1.2 r9s a year assuming a 50/50 win loss.

    Even at the 380 million level a guild going 24/24 gets enough mats for 7.2 r9s in a year. If r9 requirements over the next year match r8 requirements from the past year (8) then even the very top high end players can’t earn enough to meet requirements for new characters let alone increase characters not required.

    The progressive system isn’t my issue, the gate and the rate of mats coming in is. Waiting three-six months for the new shiny is fine. More than a year is not.
  • Ultra
    11449 posts Moderator
    Drathuk916 wrote: »
    Even at the 380 million level a guild going 24/24 gets enough mats for 7.2 r9s in a year. If r9 requirements over the next year match r8 requirements from the past year (8) then even the very top high end players can’t earn enough to meet requirements for new characters let alone increase characters not required.

    The progressive system isn’t my issue, the gate and the rate of mats coming in is. Waiting three-six months for the new shiny is fine. More than a year is not.

    Yeah, I wonder if Conquest 10+ will introduce r9s in the max reward crate because the inflow of r9 other than packs is extremely slow
  • Ultra wrote: »
    Drathuk916 wrote: »
    Even at the 380 million level a guild going 24/24 gets enough mats for 7.2 r9s in a year. If r9 requirements over the next year match r8 requirements from the past year (8) then even the very top high end players can’t earn enough to meet requirements for new characters let alone increase characters not required.

    The progressive system isn’t my issue, the gate and the rate of mats coming in is. Waiting three-six months for the new shiny is fine. More than a year is not.

    Yeah, I wonder if Conquest 10+ will introduce r9s in the max reward crate because the inflow of r9 other than packs is extremely slow

    This would be logical, and would mirror the R8 material roll-out (Challenge Rancor, then Conquest). It would also, happily, mitigate a lot of the rancor (pun intended) over the changes to TW.
  • Ultra wrote: »
    Drathuk916 wrote: »
    Even at the 380 million level a guild going 24/24 gets enough mats for 7.2 r9s in a year. If r9 requirements over the next year match r8 requirements from the past year (8) then even the very top high end players can’t earn enough to meet requirements for new characters let alone increase characters not required.

    The progressive system isn’t my issue, the gate and the rate of mats coming in is. Waiting three-six months for the new shiny is fine. More than a year is not.

    Yeah, I wonder if Conquest 10+ will introduce r9s in the max reward crate because the inflow of r9 other than packs is extremely slow

    I wonder if Conquest 10+ will be a horrible grind crap fest as it is now…
  • Ultra wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    Why are you dropping relic 9 before you make the phase 1 gear changes?

    Address the crunch then you can release new gear/relic gates.

    You jumped the shark again CG.

    R9 was delayed from August and is late as it is and was announced long before the gear changes

    Sure, but it still shows CGs true priority when they are more interested in a blatant cash grab than fixing the gear system that has been broken for years.

    There was no immediate need for r9, so there is no reason they couldn't wait until the gear changes were ready before releasing it together.

    It'll be interesting to see how long we have to wait for the alleged improvement for G12+. I'm guessing around Christmas?
  • Ultra
    11449 posts Moderator
    Ultra wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    Why are you dropping relic 9 before you make the phase 1 gear changes?

    Address the crunch then you can release new gear/relic gates.

    You jumped the shark again CG.

    R9 was delayed from August and is late as it is and was announced long before the gear changes

    Sure, but it still shows CGs true priority when they are more interested in a blatant cash grab than fixing the gear system that has been broken for years.

    There was no immediate need for r9, so there is no reason they couldn't wait until the gear changes were ready before releasing it together.

    It'll be interesting to see how long we have to wait for the alleged improvement for G12+. I'm guessing around Christmas?

    It wasn’t broken

    R9 has a need, we aren’t privy to future plans so we can’t comment whether there was an immediate need for it or not
  • Ultra wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    Why are you dropping relic 9 before you make the phase 1 gear changes?

    Address the crunch then you can release new gear/relic gates.

    You jumped the shark again CG.

    R9 was delayed from August and is late as it is and was announced long before the gear changes

    Sure, but it still shows CGs true priority when they are more interested in a blatant cash grab than fixing the gear system that has been broken for years.

    There was no immediate need for r9, so there is no reason they couldn't wait until the gear changes were ready before releasing it together.

    It'll be interesting to see how long we have to wait for the alleged improvement for G12+. I'm guessing around Christmas?

    It wasn’t broken

    R9 has a need, we aren’t privy to future plans so we can’t comment whether there was an immediate need for it or not

    Ha. R8 is certainly not saturated enough to justify r9. The future plans are obviously r9 for the next two gls plus the hard counter to executor. Given how slowly you acquire r9 the need is that they couldn’t require r9 for those if they introduced r9 any later. But there is no need for r9 to be required for new gls. None zilch nada from a gameplay perspective.
  • Ultra wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    Why are you dropping relic 9 before you make the phase 1 gear changes?

    Address the crunch then you can release new gear/relic gates.

    You jumped the shark again CG.

    R9 was delayed from August and is late as it is and was announced long before the gear changes

    Sure, but it still shows CGs true priority when they are more interested in a blatant cash grab than fixing the gear system that has been broken for years.

    There was no immediate need for r9, so there is no reason they couldn't wait until the gear changes were ready before releasing it together.

    It'll be interesting to see how long we have to wait for the alleged improvement for G12+. I'm guessing around Christmas?

    It wasn’t broken

    R9 has a need, we aren’t privy to future plans so we can’t comment whether there was an immediate need for it or not

    Yeah….their need is $$$. That’s it. That’s literally all there is to it. $150 for one R9 character….riiiigghhht.
  • Ultra
    11449 posts Moderator
    Ultra wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    Why are you dropping relic 9 before you make the phase 1 gear changes?

    Address the crunch then you can release new gear/relic gates.

    You jumped the shark again CG.

    R9 was delayed from August and is late as it is and was announced long before the gear changes

    Sure, but it still shows CGs true priority when they are more interested in a blatant cash grab than fixing the gear system that has been broken for years.

    There was no immediate need for r9, so there is no reason they couldn't wait until the gear changes were ready before releasing it together.

    It'll be interesting to see how long we have to wait for the alleged improvement for G12+. I'm guessing around Christmas?

    It wasn’t broken

    R9 has a need, we aren’t privy to future plans so we can’t comment whether there was an immediate need for it or not

    Yeah….their need is $$$. That’s it. That’s literally all there is to it. $150 for one R9 character….riiiigghhht.

    Don't agree with the r9 pricing myself, or the pack, but that's entirely different (price of r9) vs why r9 needs to be in game for the health of the game

    Yes R9 generates money, but I am talking about the importance of R9 to the health / progression of the game
  • Ultra wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    Why are you dropping relic 9 before you make the phase 1 gear changes?

    Address the crunch then you can release new gear/relic gates.

    You jumped the shark again CG.

    R9 was delayed from August and is late as it is and was announced long before the gear changes

    Sure, but it still shows CGs true priority when they are more interested in a blatant cash grab than fixing the gear system that has been broken for years.

    There was no immediate need for r9, so there is no reason they couldn't wait until the gear changes were ready before releasing it together.

    It'll be interesting to see how long we have to wait for the alleged improvement for G12+. I'm guessing around Christmas?

    It wasn’t broken

    R9 has a need, we aren’t privy to future plans so we can’t comment whether there was an immediate need for it or not

    Yeah….their need is $$$. That’s it. That’s literally all there is to it. $150 for one R9 character….riiiigghhht.

    Don't agree with the r9 pricing myself, or the pack, but that's entirely different (price of r9) vs why r9 needs to be in game for the health of the game

    Yes R9 generates money, but I am talking about the importance of R9 to the health / progression of the game

    If R9 is so important to the overall health of the game then why did CG make it nearly impossible to get R9 unless you shell out $150 or belong to a top tiered guild? For my guild, it’ll take 20 TW victories to get one R9 character…..
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