Question about Royal Guard's health pool calculation at start of battle under Lord Vader

BostonB
5 posts Member
edited September 2021
I was informed to post this question here so here I am.

I've been trying to understand Royal Guard's kit under Lord Vader and have a question about Royal Guard's starting health pool calculation at the start of battle. I've seen conflicting information all over so hoping we can get a clear-cut answer from a developer.

So Lord Vader's leadership contains the following two text:

1. "Dark side allies have +15% Max health, doubled for Empire" (basically +30%)
2. "At the start of battle, other Empire and Dark Side Unaligned Force User allies lose all Protection and gain that much Max Health."

And Royal Guard's unique states:
"At the start of the encounter, if the allied Leader is Empire, Royal Guard gains Max Health equal to 5% of the allied Leader's Max Health and then doubles his Health until the end of the encounter."

Taking these into consideration, let's try to understand what that means. So say my Royal Guard has a health of 72833 and a Protection of 126664 based on what you can in their stats profile. And Lord Vader's combined health and protection is 320000. What is the final health total for Royal Guard after factoring in all of the leadership and unique stats from above? It seems like there are different values depending on the order that these are calculated.

For example,

1. Stats from LV's abilities and leadership are calculated first.
So Royal Guard starts by losing all protection and gains that much in max health, giving him a combined 199497 for protection + health. Then the leadership adds an additional 30% (ie, 199497 + 30% (59849) = 259346). Next, Royal Guard's unique is factored in, so we add in 5% of LV's health (320000 * 0.05 = 16001). So 259346 + 16000 = 275346. Royal Guard's unique also says we then double it, so that's 275346 x 2, giving a grand total of 550692.

2. Second way to do the calculation is we calculate RG's unique first before LV's leadership.
So we start with Royal Guard's health being 72833. We then add LV's 5% health of 16000, so 72833 + 16000 = 88833. Then Royal Guard's unique also says we double that, so 88833 x 2 = 177666. Next, we start factoring in LV's stats from his abilities, which adds 30% max health (177666 * 1.3 (30%) = 230966). And finally, LV's text says to combine Royal Guard's health + protection, so that's 230966 + 126664, making his final health total being 357630.

As you can see, the two values are very different. But which order is the correct order of calculation? Knowing the answer to the above will help players determine how to mod RG -- whether to go for health primaries or protection primaries to maximize the health as best as possible. Thanks.

Replies

  • crzydroid
    6411 posts Moderator
    Leadership should be first before uniques.

    So for RG: 72833x1.3 = 94683+126664= 221346.
    Then take 5% of LV. Can't really calculate that because you just gave an example of combined health and protection, but maybe you meant that was the combined after adding 30% health. So 16000. Now RG is at 237346. Doubled is 474692.
  • crzydroid wrote: »
    Leadership should be first before uniques.

    So for RG: 72833x1.3 = 94683+126664= 221346.
    Then take 5% of LV. Can't really calculate that because you just gave an example of combined health and protection, but maybe you meant that was the combined after adding 30% health. So 16000. Now RG is at 237346. Doubled is 474692.

    Thanks for this response. Is this confirmed anywhere? From a developer? I ask this because there seems to be some conflicting information regarding how this is calculated. You mentioned that leadership should be calculated before uniques, but this video from Xaereth (regarding some toons that are modded incorrectly) has him saying that unique is calculated first before leadership. It would be great if we could get a formal answer from a developer about this.
  • BostonB wrote: »
    crzydroid wrote: »
    Leadership should be first before uniques.

    So for RG: 72833x1.3 = 94683+126664= 221346.
    Then take 5% of LV. Can't really calculate that because you just gave an example of combined health and protection, but maybe you meant that was the combined after adding 30% health. So 16000. Now RG is at 237346. Doubled is 474692.

    Thanks for this response. Is this confirmed anywhere? From a developer? I ask this because there seems to be some conflicting information regarding how this is calculated. You mentioned that leadership should be calculated before uniques, but this video from Xaereth (regarding some toons that are modded incorrectly) has him saying that unique is calculated first before leadership. It would be great if we could get a formal answer from a developer about this.

    I'm pretty sure Xaereth is right here.
    My discord - BabyYoda#4470 My swgoh.gg - https://swgoh.gg/p/648565123/
  • Unique is calculated before lead.

    Example 1: RG 100k health, 70k prot / LV 100k health, protection doesnt matter

    So you get:

    RG health +5% LV health -> 100k + 5k = 105k
    Now double this from RG unique -> 210k
    Now add 30% of RG base health from vader lead -> 210k + 30k = 240k
    Now add protection to combine this to total health -> 240k + 70k = 310k

    Example 2: RG 70k health, 100k prot / LV 100k health, protection doesnt matter

    So you get:

    RG health +5% LV health -> 70k + 5k = 75k
    Now double this from RG unique -> 150k
    Now add 30% of RG base health from vader lead -> 150k + 21k = 171k
    Now add protection to combine this to total health -> 171k + 100k = 271k

    In conclusion. It's better to use 6e health primaries vs protection primaries on RG.
  • Gale_Toral
    91 posts Member
    edited October 2021
    Unique is calculated before lead.

    Example 1: RG 100k health, 70k prot / LV 100k health, protection doesnt matter

    So you get:

    RG health +5% LV health -> 100k + 5k = 105k
    Now double this from RG unique -> 210k
    Now add 30% of RG base health from vader lead -> 210k + 30k = 240k
    Now add protection to combine this to total health -> 240k + 70k = 310k

    Example 2: RG 70k health, 100k prot / LV 100k health, protection doesnt matter

    So you get:

    RG health +5% LV health -> 70k + 5k = 75k
    Now double this from RG unique -> 150k
    Now add 30% of RG base health from vader lead -> 150k + 21k = 171k
    Now add protection to combine this to total health -> 171k + 100k = 271k

    In conclusion. It's better to use 6e health primaries vs protection primaries on RG.

    Correct as far as I'm aware but with one correction - LV's protection DOES matter as it's his UNIQUE that converts his own protection to health, so the 5% calculation for RG's increase will be much higher.

    Uniques I think activate in the order as unit placement so LV's unique will fire off before RG's.
  • I've had this discussion with guildmates and they where certain that the 5% RG gets from LV are from base stats (so health after mods but before his unique applies). Otherwise you also need to include the increase he gets from his GL unique which adds 10% h+p per relic level.

    Personally this is where I am not sure so I trust my guildmates there.

    @CG_Doja_Fett_MINI any chance you could ask the devs and answer this for us :)
  • Just test it using Hermit Yoda's heal.
    It will tell you exactly what both of their Healths are at during the battle and then you can calculate it backwards.

    The way I understand it, the order should go,

    1 - LV gains 10% Health & Protection per relic level
    2 - LV converts his Protection into Health,
    3 - RG takes 5% of LV's new Health
    4 - RG doubles his Health
    5 - RG gains +40% Mastery & +30% Health
    6 - RG converts Protection into Health
  • 5 - RG gains +40% Mastery & +30% Health

    This is the bit that is stumping me. How do these two bits interact?

    If it's order as written, RG will gain some health from the +40% mastery, then his new health grand total get the 1.3 multiplier.

    But it could very well be more of a BODMAS order where the 1.3 multiplied is applied first, then the flat value for +40% mastery added on.

    I don't think it makes a huge difference either way but having this level of knowledge would just be nice to know.
  • I just tried it and something is definitely off.

    Tier 1 of health mods challenge running r8LV, r5RG, Hoda, Tusken, Tusken.

    Lord Vader stats: 112,975 Health, 140,125 Protection
    Royal Guard stats: 88,302 Health, 63,673 Protection
    Hoda heal based on 10% health: 31,452 Health

    So we can assume around 314,520 health total.

    Running through our assumed order of operations...

    1 - LV gain 10% H/P / relic level. => x 1.8 => 203,355 H, 252,225 P
    2 - LV convert P to H. => 455,580 H (LV)
    3 - RG gains 5% of this. => x 0.05 = 22,779 H => 111,081 H (RG)
    4 - RG doubles his health. => 222,162 H (RG)
    5 - RG gain +40% mastery and +30% health.
    • At r5, +25 mastery grants 13,914 H
    • 40% of this is 5,565 H
    • 30% of max health prior to mastery increase is 222,162 H x 1.3 = 288,810 H
    • Adding = 294,375 H
    6 - RG convert P to H. => New grand total of 358,048 H

    And it's even more inaccurate once we consider that LV similarly gains max health and mastery from his lead.

    Please could a Dev clarify once and for all how the mathematics of the game work?
  • Gale_Toral wrote: »
    I just tried it and something is definitely off.

    Yep, I've been testing it most of the night and I can't figure out the calculation either. From my own tests, it does appear closer to the numbers when you calculate RG's unique before LV's leadership so I'm starting to lean more towards that being correct. However, no matter how I calculate it (and just as you're seeing yourself), the numbers appear to always fall short by 35-45k in-game than what it should be. Wondering if there's a bug with not factoring in one of the many calculations. Regardless, it would be great if we can get a response from development. In fact, it was Doja_Fett who asked me to post this question here so that he could look into it and post the answer for everyone to see. I guess we wait.
  • Gale_Toral wrote: »
    I just tried it and something is definitely off.

    Tier 1 of health mods challenge running r8LV, r5RG, Hoda, Tusken, Tusken.

    Lord Vader stats: 112,975 Health, 140,125 Protection
    Royal Guard stats: 88,302 Health, 63,673 Protection
    Hoda heal based on 10% health: 31,452 Health

    So we can assume around 314,520 health total.

    Running through our assumed order of operations...

    1 - LV gain 10% H/P / relic level. => x 1.8 => 203,355 H, 252,225 P
    2 - LV convert P to H. => 455,580 H (LV)
    3 - RG gains 5% of this. => x 0.05 = 22,779 H => 111,081 H (RG)
    4 - RG doubles his health. => 222,162 H (RG)
    5 - RG gain +40% mastery and +30% health.
    • At r5, +25 mastery grants 13,914 H
    • 40% of this is 5,565 H
    • 30% of max health prior to mastery increase is 222,162 H x 1.3 = 288,810 H
    • Adding = 294,375 H
    6 - RG convert P to H. => New grand total of 358,048 H

    And it's even more inaccurate once we consider that LV similarly gains max health and mastery from his lead.

    Please could a Dev clarify once and for all how the mathematics of the game work?

    Royal Guard doesn't gain any Health from increased Mastery. Mastery only increases the Mastery stars (Armour, Health Steal, Protection for RG).

    Relic levels increase more stats, but Mastery only affects those 3 stats.

    You've given me enough information I should be able to work out how it's calculating it.
  • Thanks. The above seems to be correct indeed. I tested it myself using hoda for a heal and then used the above calculation and it checks out.
  • Gale_Toral
    91 posts Member
    edited October 2021
    Okay here is the math & Order of operations:

    Get this Potato a PhD right now.

    As an extension of this, I suppose it's probably sensible for all leadership abilities to affect the base stats.
  • BostonB
    5 posts Member
    edited October 2021
    Okay here is the math & Order of operations:
    ...
    5 - RG gains +40% Mastery & +30% Health
    These are based off RG's starting values so:
    RG gains +10 Mastery (2,200 Protection) & +30% of base health (26,490)

    Thanks for this. Definitely the closest calculations I've seen so far. I used two different scenarios (one with all health primaries and one with all protection primaries) and ran tests with Hoda and they are very close -- anywhere from 4-6k off, which when you're talking about 400-450k in health, it's pretty **** close.

    Also, in step #5, you mentioned RG gains 40% mastery but then looks like you calculated for 10% mastery. Since LV's leadership gives +40% mastery for Empire, that means the value there should be 8,800 and not 2,200? When I corrected that, the difference was much closer. But I think it's safe to say, you're definitely correct in your calculations. Thanks again.
  • BostonB wrote: »
    Also, in step #5, you mentioned RG gains 40% mastery but then looks like you calculated for 10% mastery. Since LV's leadership gives +40% mastery for Empire, that means the value there should be 8,800 and not 2,200? When I corrected that, the difference was much closer. But I think it's safe to say, you're definitely correct in your calculations. Thanks again.

    40% Mastery is based off the flat mastery number.

    Royal Guard has 25 Mastery at R5, +40% is 10 Mastery. Protection gained is 220 per mastery level.

    Overall the mastery gain is minimal.

  • BostonB wrote: »
    Also, in step #5, you mentioned RG gains 40% mastery but then looks like you calculated for 10% mastery. Since LV's leadership gives +40% mastery for Empire, that means the value there should be 8,800 and not 2,200? When I corrected that, the difference was much closer. But I think it's safe to say, you're definitely correct in your calculations. Thanks again.

    40% Mastery is based off the flat mastery number.

    Royal Guard has 25 Mastery at R5, +40% is 10 Mastery. Protection gained is 220 per mastery level.

    Overall the mastery gain is minimal.
    Ah, I see what you mean. It's 40% of the 25% mastery. So my RG is R8 -- and since it's 60% at R8, that means the mastery is actually 24%. So 22,000 * 0.24 = 5280. Now after factoring that in, it comes out to 449356.08 for my health for RG. After testing this out... looks like it's precisely correct (and it actually rounded UP) giving 44936:

    image0.png?width=1329&height=614

    Thanks for clarifying this!
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