LV/Maul [MERGE]

Replies

  • SemiGod wrote: »
    I'll give my take world of Roguecraft style -

    At first I struggled with Lord Vader vs. GL Kenobi. I had to think "Did I get worse?" "How am I losing to noobs?!" "This character is broken!" "Either CG needs to nerf GL Kenobi, or Lord Vader needs to get buffed!"
    "After countless hours and hours of arena trials, all while watching other hit their payout only to miss mine, time...and time..again..."
    "And then one night something happened. After watching kickboxer, Blood sport and American ninja 1-3 my skill level jumped like 8000% - and my spirit and mind became as one!"

    No really all I did was swap out Darth Vader for Malak. It's been easy street every since. Here... take a look




    Yeah beating JMK isn’t the problem.

    The problem is that he takes 4+ minutes on offense just to finish a battle because of how slow his damage ranks up.

    As well as being horrible on defense with terrible AI. Galactic legends aren’t equal and for the investment of LV, you’re better off ignoring him completely since he isn’t the top of arena, not the best in conquest, sucks on defense, meh in CRancor, etc.

    The team is done after 3 minutes... How fast are you beating him in mirror? 2 minutes? Or less? That's some lofty goal stuff right there and unreasonable if you ask me. You can't expect an auto win...right? Oh my god....you can't... seriously , expect an auto win, can you?.

    There is absolutely NO doubt I can kill GL Kenobi faster with Lord Vader than I can with a mirror. It's not a contest. Maybe not a ton faster..but faster.

    My thinking is.. the fight shouldn't be taking forever, on average and even if it does, which happens, RNG is RNG, yes I have had unclean battles. Stuff happens. But I don't lose in the end. Lord Vader, is still winning when stuff goes off the rails.

    In all seriousness, the complaints about Lord Vader are falling short of being "game breaking" issues. Can't kill fast enough... need to auto win, AI must be better.

    Mod well, and read the kits. Learn the fight your way. My team and the way I attack GL Kenobi teams might be way different than other peoples. But dropping Darth Vader for Malak has seemed to me, to make a world of difference. Look at the video I posted. 2 mins and 45 secs to rip that GL Kenobi team down. You want faster?
    Then, we're, we us, we're not talking about taking out a GL. You want to take out a lowbie squad in that time, that's not even a reasonable or fair expectation and you know it. Don't be disingenuous either. It's unreasonable to expect that. It is. Period.
  • SemiGod wrote: »
    I'll give my take world of Roguecraft style -

    At first I struggled with Lord Vader vs. GL Kenobi. I had to think "Did I get worse?" "How am I losing to noobs?!" "This character is broken!" "Either CG needs to nerf GL Kenobi, or Lord Vader needs to get buffed!"
    "After countless hours and hours of arena trials, all while watching other hit their payout only to miss mine, time...and time..again..."
    "And then one night something happened. After watching kickboxer, Blood sport and American ninja 1-3 my skill level jumped like 8000% - and my spirit and mind became as one!"

    No really all I did was swap out Darth Vader for Malak. It's been easy street every since. Here... take a look




    Yeah beating JMK isn’t the problem.

    The problem is that he takes 4+ minutes on offense just to finish a battle because of how slow his damage ranks up.

    As well as being horrible on defense with terrible AI. Galactic legends aren’t equal and for the investment of LV, you’re better off ignoring him completely since he isn’t the top of arena, not the best in conquest, sucks on defense, meh in CRancor, etc.

    The team is done after 3 minutes... How fast are you beating him in mirror? 2 minutes? Or less? That's some lofty goal stuff right there and unreasonable if you ask me. You can't expect an auto win...right? Oh my god....you can't... seriously , expect an auto win, can you?.

    There is absolutely NO doubt I can kill GL Kenobi faster with Lord Vader than I can with a mirror. It's not a contest. Maybe not a ton faster..but faster.

    My thinking is.. the fight shouldn't be taking forever, on average and even if it does, which happens, RNG is RNG, yes I have had unclean battles. Stuff happens. But I don't lose in the end. Lord Vader, is still winning when stuff goes off the rails.

    In all seriousness, the complaints about Lord Vader are falling short of being "game breaking" issues. Can't kill fast enough... need to auto win, AI must be better.

    Mod well, and read the kits. Learn the fight your way. My team and the way I attack GL Kenobi teams might be way different than other peoples. But dropping Darth Vader for Malak has seemed to me, to make a world of difference. Look at the video I posted. 2 mins and 45 secs to rip that GL Kenobi team down. You want faster?
    Then, we're, we us, we're not talking about taking out a GL. You want to take out a lowbie squad in that time, that's not even a reasonable or fair expectation and you know it. Don't be disingenuous either. It's unreasonable to expect that. It is. Period.

    You're talking about expecting auto wins being unreasonable, but the truth of the matter is Kenobi can reliably auto LV. SLKR still beats him with armorer, JML still dominates him on offense and wins much easier than against JMK, and theres even talk about certain Rey comps being able to auto LV as well. The only reason SEE doesnt win is because he times out due to LV being immune to shock.
    There is nothing LV does that Kenobi doesnt do better both in terms of offense and defence, and JMK is undeniably the superior GL. If LV didnt have significantly higher requirements and wasnt useless for 3 months until people could get Maul it would be one thing, but to after all that get JMK light is insulting.
  • Have we considered that if the devs made every change to LV that is being asked for here, then we'd end up with a team with even more power creep than JMK's? The teams are more or less equal right now. JMK is mostly just annoying because LV doesn't apply enough locked debuffs.
  • Gale_Toral wrote: »
    Have we considered that if the devs made every change to LV that is being asked for here, then we'd end up with a team with even more power creep than JMK's? The teams are more or less equal right now. JMK is mostly just annoying because LV doesn't apply enough locked debuffs.

    LV is equal to JML right now. Kenobi is pretty much in his own league. Maybe if they didnt overload JMKs kit AND THEN BUFF HIM the difference wouldnt have been so noticeable.
  • M1hkel0
    13 posts Member
    edited November 2021
    Goddamn LV.. he really sucks!!!!!
    4Min 24sec left till PO... Takes 3 min to load up on damage and trying then to finish off mediocre JMK. Only to find that I went 10 sec off the clock.
    Goddamn.. why on earth or how do you find this normal? ppl complain and you say/do nothing. Isnt this enough when everyone says he IS BAD and PEOPLE/PLAYERS say that there is NO POINT in going after HIM.
    Go for JMK, hes better.
    F**k If only I had known before.
    I would trade this crap for JMK!!!!

    Team that consists of 3 attackers Lord Luser, Maul, support Piett + tank RG.
    They sure dish out "damage".

  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    SemiGod wrote: »
    Clphenom wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    SemiGod wrote: »
    CG_Doja_Fett_MINI are the devs aware of how LV Is heavily underperforming?

    They are aware of player sentiment regarding LV

    Still no comment from devs? According to swgoh.gg the number of people using LV is going down. Seems to be the opposite of what the shiny new toy should be doing. Most people in my shard have switched back to mk. I'm close to doing the same.

    This is what Doja said when I asked him

    xfz9udke8jsx.jpeg
    37zwhcehhwrg.jpeg

    Basically Doja is saying that the devs haven’t dexided whether he needs changes done yet. As well as that Devs are aware of the player sentiment.

    Although player sentiment probably doesn’t mean anything anyways considering the devs were aware of the player sentiment for conquest and then decided to make the game mode worse.

    I'm not sure if I feel better or worse about the situation after reading this, if they really thought he might need changing even a little bit, why haven't they publicly said anything like this yet.

    Last I check the post you quoted shows them publicly saying things.
  • Wow.. recent update was AWESOME... Slightly faster ult animatsion.. Nice, really awesome. Thats what whole Community was asking for.
    Yeess. Thank you....................thank you for nothing useful
  • M1hkel0 wrote: »
    Wow.. recent update was AWESOME... Slightly faster ult animation.. Nice, really awesome. Thats what whole Community was asking for.
    Yeess. Thank you....................thank you for nothing useful

    So you clearly haven't been having the massive optimization issues around LV. since launch LV optimization for many people has been very bad. After a few turns the animations/moves get extremely laggy/glitchy. The game didn't handle dots being applied, LV turn start, and debuffs triggering very well. Plus if you fought other LV or fought JMK it botch their side more as well. JMK pop an ult and it be a 5 sec delay for it actually doing anything.



    Don't get me wrong I kinda hope maul/LV get touch ups or least smarter Ai; however, the animation fix has been a long term issue which people wanted fixed.

    If you didn't have any issues with optimization then your lucky its very frustrating to use LV in most areas when the game starts appearing to freeze and taking seconds to respond
  • I have had that problem.. but Imo that itself isnt the root of the problem.
    They should fix this team AI for sure.
    But when I use this team I am running against the clock.
    Literally with 1 sec left I have finished battles.
    For the offencive squad they are not performing.
    I have r8 LV + Maul r7, vader r7, Piett & rg r5.
    I get most of the time LV and rg standing and just clicking and waiting for 3rd ult or something to finally happen.
    I increase cd on CAT.. keep Maul @ 5 stacks. Keep ability block on them AS much AS I can.. from what I understand he IS crap.



  • Kyno wrote: »
    SemiGod wrote: »
    Clphenom wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    SemiGod wrote: »
    CG_Doja_Fett_MINI are the devs aware of how LV Is heavily underperforming?

    They are aware of player sentiment regarding LV

    Still no comment from devs? According to swgoh.gg the number of people using LV is going down. Seems to be the opposite of what the shiny new toy should be doing. Most people in my shard have switched back to mk. I'm close to doing the same.

    This is what Doja said when I asked him

    xfz9udke8jsx.jpeg
    37zwhcehhwrg.jpeg

    Basically Doja is saying that the devs haven’t dexided whether he needs changes done yet. As well as that Devs are aware of the player sentiment.

    Although player sentiment probably doesn’t mean anything anyways considering the devs were aware of the player sentiment for conquest and then decided to make the game mode worse.

    I'm not sure if I feel better or worse about the situation after reading this, if they really thought he might need changing even a little bit, why haven't they publicly said anything like this yet.

    Last I check the post you quoted shows them publicly saying things.

    If you read what he wrote, he said why haven’t they said anything public about LV needed any sort of change, not “we’ll see”, aka yeah we’re happy with him but don’t really want to tell you all yet.
  • SemiGod
    2996 posts Member
    Aight so so far,

    CG has given JMK a massive buff (basically went overkill with ai & abilities)
    & Given executor a buff 2x

    I think one ai or kit buff for LV would be fine ;).
  • WattoisSnoke
    244 posts Member
    edited November 2021
    SemiGod wrote: »
    Aight so so far,

    CG has given JMK a massive buff (basically went overkill with ai & abilities)
    & Given executor a buff 2x

    I think one ai or kit buff for LV would be fine ;).

    To really have the new LV actually feel like a GL equivalent to the beast that is Kenobi, LV himself needs a significant buff/tweak and DV needs his ridiculous nerf rolled back since there was absolutely no reason to destroy such a great toon. His damage is abysmal whereas the old DV would have been an absolute staple in a LV lineup. Maul just needs his ai tweaked, RG is fine but if he could resist a destroy effect the first time it’s used in him, even better and another toon instead of Piett would be much preferable. Then, we’d have a monster DS team.

    Honestly at this point, just make his debuffs on DH (buff immunity and healing immunity) lock and can’t be cleansed like JMK at the very least and call it a day. That would straight up help immensely.
    Post edited by WattoisSnoke on
  • SemiGod wrote: »
    I'll give my take world of Roguecraft style -

    At first I struggled with Lord Vader vs. GL Kenobi. I had to think "Did I get worse?" "How am I losing to noobs?!" "This character is broken!" "Either CG needs to nerf GL Kenobi, or Lord Vader needs to get buffed!"
    "After countless hours and hours of arena trials, all while watching other hit their payout only to miss mine, time...and time..again..."
    "And then one night something happened. After watching kickboxer, Blood sport and American ninja 1-3 my skill level jumped like 8000% - and my spirit and mind became as one!"

    No really all I did was swap out Darth Vader for Malak. It's been easy street every since. Here... take a look




    Yeah beating JMK isn’t the problem.

    The problem is that he takes 4+ minutes on offense just to finish a battle because of how slow his damage ranks up.

    As well as being horrible on defense with terrible AI. Galactic legends aren’t equal and for the investment of LV, you’re better off ignoring him completely since he isn’t the top of arena, not the best in conquest, sucks on defense, meh in CRancor, etc.

    The team is done after 3 minutes... How fast are you beating him in mirror? 2 minutes? Or less? That's some lofty goal stuff right there and unreasonable if you ask me. You can't expect an auto win...right? Oh my god....you can't... seriously , expect an auto win, can you?.

    There is absolutely NO doubt I can kill GL Kenobi faster with Lord Vader than I can with a mirror. It's not a contest. Maybe not a ton faster..but faster.

    My thinking is.. the fight shouldn't be taking forever, on average and even if it does, which happens, RNG is RNG, yes I have had unclean battles. Stuff happens. But I don't lose in the end. Lord Vader, is still winning when stuff goes off the rails.

    In all seriousness, the complaints about Lord Vader are falling short of being "game breaking" issues. Can't kill fast enough... need to auto win, AI must be better.

    Mod well, and read the kits. Learn the fight your way. My team and the way I attack GL Kenobi teams might be way different than other peoples. But dropping Darth Vader for Malak has seemed to me, to make a world of difference. Look at the video I posted. 2 mins and 45 secs to rip that GL Kenobi team down. You want faster?
    Then, we're, we us, we're not talking about taking out a GL. You want to take out a lowbie squad in that time, that's not even a reasonable or fair expectation and you know it. Don't be disingenuous either. It's unreasonable to expect that. It is. Period.

    You're talking about expecting auto wins being unreasonable, but the truth of the matter is Kenobi can reliably auto LV. SLKR still beats him with armorer, JML still dominates him on offense and wins much easier than against JMK, and theres even talk about certain Rey comps being able to auto LV as well. The only reason SEE doesnt win is because he times out due to LV being immune to shock.
    There is nothing LV does that Kenobi doesnt do better both in terms of offense and defence, and JMK is undeniably the superior GL. If LV didnt have significantly higher requirements and wasnt useless for 3 months until people could get Maul it would be one thing, but to after all that get JMK light is insulting.

    I've lost going full auto GL Kenobi Mirror. More than once. And just because it can be done, I don't feel that's a requisite for other GL's. I've also won using LV vs. GL Kenobi too on auto. So, It seems that it can be done either way. I'll grant you the win rate is higher GL Kenobi vs. LV but it's not a given.

    I have used LV against most GL's and beat them consistently after a few battles and different comps.

    Look, I felt the pain, but honestly, I don't think there is a more sure counter vs. Kenobi right now.
  • How fast are you all beating Mirror GL Kenobi?
  • How fast are you all beating Mirror GL Kenobi?

    1.5 minutes and auto


  • Yeah, SEE can still beat LV Maul
  • How fast are you all beating Mirror GL Kenobi?

    1.5 minutes and auto

    You make it seem as though you dooon't want a challenge? :pensive:

    That's a mere 50 seconds faster than in the video of me beating GL Kenobi. However, I am certain I've won in faster times. So ..40-50 seconds faster and auto...

    Look, I will grant you, and everyone here that the AI is terrible.
    I'm not on their dev team and programming team and I have very little the idea of difficulties GL Kenobi's team presented in making a reasonable but not overpowered counter balance type team to Kenobi.
    I can tell you that my point of view is that it's rather simple, LV attack GL Kenobi 100% of the time when possible. That's it. That's how the team's AI is. I've run Auto plenty of times in many different situations to see it doesn't differ. And that's how it loses so easily.

    But I don't mind that we need to as Ahnoldt101 said "keep our hands on the steering wheel". in this fight.
    I think it's so intricate and relies a bit on RNG to get the best outcomes that I don't see the AI changing.

    What I wish is that there were some Sith Synergies. Thatmight makeit so AI stays the same, but I am sure they ran it and it probably was OP to some extent.

    SPeaking of Sith, we really need more.
  • SemiGod
    2996 posts Member
    How fast are you all beating Mirror GL Kenobi?

    1.5 minutes and auto

    You make it seem as though you dooon't want a challenge? :pensive:

    That's a mere 50 seconds faster than in the video of me beating GL Kenobi. However, I am certain I've won in faster times. So ..40-50 seconds faster and auto...

    Look, I will grant you, and everyone here that the AI is terrible.
    I'm not on their dev team and programming team and I have very little the idea of difficulties GL Kenobi's team presented in making a reasonable but not overpowered counter balance type team to Kenobi.
    I can tell you that my point of view is that it's rather simple, LV attack GL Kenobi 100% of the time when possible. That's it. That's how the team's AI is. I've run Auto plenty of times in many different situations to see it doesn't differ. And that's how it loses so easily.

    But I don't mind that we need to as Ahnoldt101 said "keep our hands on the steering wheel". in this fight.
    I think it's so intricate and relies a bit on RNG to get the best outcomes that I don't see the AI changing.

    What I wish is that there were some Sith Synergies. Thatmight makeit so AI stays the same, but I am sure they ran it and it probably was OP to some extent.

    SPeaking of Sith, we really need more.

    All the sith in the game r bad :pensive:
    Sith eternal is a pure sith gl and he’s the 6th best gl
  • SemiGod wrote: »
    How fast are you all beating Mirror GL Kenobi?

    1.5 minutes and auto

    You make it seem as though you dooon't want a challenge? :pensive:

    That's a mere 50 seconds faster than in the video of me beating GL Kenobi. However, I am certain I've won in faster times. So ..40-50 seconds faster and auto...

    Look, I will grant you, and everyone here that the AI is terrible.
    I'm not on their dev team and programming team and I have very little the idea of difficulties GL Kenobi's team presented in making a reasonable but not overpowered counter balance type team to Kenobi.
    I can tell you that my point of view is that it's rather simple, LV attack GL Kenobi 100% of the time when possible. That's it. That's how the team's AI is. I've run Auto plenty of times in many different situations to see it doesn't differ. And that's how it loses so easily.

    But I don't mind that we need to as Ahnoldt101 said "keep our hands on the steering wheel". in this fight.
    I think it's so intricate and relies a bit on RNG to get the best outcomes that I don't see the AI changing.

    What I wish is that there were some Sith Synergies. Thatmight makeit so AI stays the same, but I am sure they ran it and it probably was OP to some extent.

    SPeaking of Sith, we really need more.

    All the sith in the game r bad :pensive:
    Sith eternal is a pure sith gl and he’s the 6th best gl

    Well the best Sith in the game, who also happened to be Empire was DV but they utterly destroyed that room to original, pre buff/s levels of uselessness. Imagine old Vader under a LV lead, THAT’S the kind of toon we need to make the latest GL a proper Meta level toon. Alas, they made him trash so he’s only good for the odd ability block. It’s funny how every time CG gets something right (Vader’s buffs pre nerf, the first conquests etc) they inevitably undo it with money grabbing schemes or just to annoy the players it seems like. Truly tone deaf.
  • Yup, just got my LV ult today, first fight against a JML I almost lost, only had LV and RG standing and had under a minute left when I won... I would much rather use SEE and click auto and guarantee a win in under a minute over a 4+ minute battle I might lose.

    Tried the first Kenobi I saw, and lost 5 times in a row (yes I have Maul) and still haven't won against Kenobi. That is **** absurd. The most expensive GL yet, and how much harder it was to get Maul over CAT and he's THIS bad?!

    If they don't buff/announce something soon I'll likely file for a refund on everything and leave the game, this is ridiculous.
  • SemiGod
    2996 posts Member
    edited November 2021
    I wonder if CG did LV testing with pre nerf DV and that’s why the team performs is like this. : p
  • Vendi1983
    4909 posts Member
    edited November 2021
    Maybe Conquest 10 was made into a dumpster fire to deflect attention from how terrible LV was out of the box, and even after his half-GL canon-counterpart arrived: Maul.
  • I’ve said it before and I’ll say it one last time… make buff and healing immunity lock on his first special, gain mastery on the same move during ultimate equal to underestimated and double ally mastery gain on second special during ultimate as well as improved ai and he’ll be worth the investment. Super simple fixes that propel him up where he should be.
  • I’ve said it before and I’ll say it one last time… make buff and healing immunity lock on his first special, gain mastery on the same move during ultimate equal to underestimated and double ally mastery gain on second special during ultimate as well as improved ai and he’ll be worth the investment. Super simple fixes that propel him up where he should be.

    Could also help if they changed his mastery stats, currently it's Accuracy, Damage and defense pen. meanwhile SLKR gets CC, CD and damage. change that accuracy to CD or something so he gets more damage from the mastery he gets
  • I’ve said it before and I’ll say it one last time… make buff and healing immunity lock on his first special, gain mastery on the same move during ultimate equal to underestimated and double ally mastery gain on second special during ultimate as well as improved ai and he’ll be worth the investment. Super simple fixes that propel him up where he should be.

    Could also help if they changed his mastery stats, currently it's Accuracy, Damage and defense pen. meanwhile SLKR gets CC, CD and damage. change that accuracy to CD or something so he gets more damage from the mastery he gets

    Definitely could but I’d say there’s a 0% chance they’d change his mastery stats. The thing is, about 4mins 30secs in he does hit like a Mack truck, the goal would be to get him there a lot quicker. With the changes I put forth, he’d be able to get an extra 120% mastery increase during ult with 2x dark harbingers, then he’d get cooking when it mattered. Add in the double mastery gain for his team during ult so they’d at least get a little better and have more stats for him to take next ult and the locked debuffs (without even needing ult for that, like JMK) and, with better ai, he’s meta. I don’t think they’ll do anything tbh but I like to live in a fantasy world sometimes.
  • Mandalor
    27 posts Member
    edited November 2021
    Idk why u talking about him, CG won't change anything.
    Same happend when SEE appears.
    They buffed JMK(health immunity,direct health attack) ,it was easier to get CAT, light side can ignore taunt, jmk had an insta kill at first round, with CAT.( Every dark side had to load up).

    U can discuss or bleat 24h a day... doesn't matter

    CG reach they goal, spend maybe money in hope LV is better then JMK because of higher requirements.

    They don't care that LV loose against earlier GL.


    I collecting LV myself, because I want a dark side roster.
  • Jordy_Rain
    43 posts Member
    edited November 2021
    CG has repeatedly said that power should be comensurate to the ivestment cost. How can LV cost so much and not be the best GL? He's not even average! This is outrageous!! It's not fair!!!
    Post edited by Jordy_Rain on
  • Jordy_Rain wrote: »
    CG has repeatedly said that power should be comensurate to the ivestment cost. How can LV cost so much and not be the best GL? He's not even average! This is outrageous!! It's unfair!!!

    CG did him dirty just like the Jedi Council did
  • Jordy_Rain wrote: »
    CG has repeatedly said that power should be comensurate to the ivestment cost. How can LV cost so much and not be the best GL? He's not even average! This is outrageous!! It's unfair!!!

    giphy.gif?****=ecf05e47q4wqz30pvquhzegpu7qwb3dbbyyapz49lsoojwov&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g
    Free at last
  • I remember hearing a direct quote from either Doja or Crumb on Cubs' interview "JMK can counter LV with proper play", suggesting 1. It won't be an easy battle, and 2. Who knows if any other GLs will be able to counter him. Turns out "proper play" was pressing the auto button and just about every GL can counter him....
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