[MEGA] State of the Galaxy: November 2021

Replies

  • I can't wait to be in the carbonite division with my 6 million GP. It will be soooo funny!

    You start on Kyber 4 IIRC
  • This sounds too complicated to be fun for a casual player.
  • ANARCHY187
    56 posts Member
    edited November 2021
    I really Appreciate this move to put crystals in a skill based event. To put an end this the shard chat nonsense that has a small number of players at the top ganging up on other players not in shard chat from climbing. Sqaud arena is not a competitive realm. Its about who u know rather then earning top spots with SKILLS. CG GREAT JOB. U have ppl who support this move. Kudos.

    No im not in a shard chat, and still get top 5. Mostly 1st. Battling herds of the same ppl trying to keep me out and i overcome with skill and tactics that are well timed.
  • sloweagle
    440 posts Member
    edited November 2021
    sloweagle wrote: »
    People who love GAC and think the change is good are missing a simple reasoning, in the past, skills in not in matchmaking, so whatever matchmaking, people with better skills always have an edge, and personally I enjoying beating a stronger rosters with better skills. But going forward , some kinda of skills will be factored into the matchmaking, that edge will be gone.

    Mathematically, it simply means moving everyone’s record closer to 6-6. Those 12-0,11-1,10-2, 0-12, 1-11, 2-10 will be increasingly less. So if you are a GAC lover with consistently 10-2 or better record, watching out. It is really simple math.

    This is correct.

    People who get 10-2 today will need to work their tail off tomorrow to go 6-6.

    Grand Arena will be more of a chore than Conquest.

    Exactly. To illustrate with an extreme simple matchmaking system simply based on win/loss ratio for 12 match tournament. There will be 1 out of 4096 players with 12-0 record and 0-12 record. And 12/4096 players with 11-1 and 1-11 record. These ratios are considerably less than current ratio.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    StarSon wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    NicWester wrote: »
    I feel like the folks who say this is going to reduce income across the board are letting slip their chat status. Practically speaking, the maximum number of players per arena shard that could get first place in a day was 24. If you think 24 players (maximum) represent the experience of the rest of the player base then you're pretty out of touch. You weren't earning your crystals, you were part of a cartel that conspired to keep the crystals in their little group.

    For the rest of us, just being in Carbonite 1 is going to give as many daily crystals as we already get.

    So saying that everyone is going to suffer doesn't hold up to scrutiny. The 1% is going to suffer and the rest of us are going to get an increase based on what we deserve, so........

    Sucks to be you. Get good at Grand Arena.

    You do understand there are multiple arena shards, with new ones popping up all the time right.

    You do not like shard chats.... but a newer player that gets #1 because they have the best team in their newer created shard arena will be getting the shaft with this.

    Its always bad to take something from players, its never bad to add something.

    From the discussion we had, there are some cases where it's a decrease, but overall it's an increase.

    When looking at new shards which have the largest active population, this is a blessing, as many of them are averaging a very low income, compared to the average in the new system.

    Perhaps a better explaination is needed. The way im reading it newer players (lvl 85) are going to not be anywhere near kyber payouts.

    Initial gp will lock them in low. Skill will grow them some, but id think that #1 player with a low gp wont be clearing 500 a day

    Yes a small % of players will see lower income, in the situation your are stating.

    Are you sure it will be a small %? If skill rating is all that matters, then new players will eventually hit a wall where they can't win because the high leagues are populated by veterans. Unless they heed Carrie's infamous tweet about catching up, of course...

    Yes I am sure.

    Where do you predict this wall will be?

    Was comparing the 110th toon with a guild mate (11 placements = 22 teams = 110 toons). I'm far and away the inferior player (same number of GLs, both have executors), their mods are better. I don't see how I get beat with the bottom of the rosters being what they are. This was with a 700k GP difference (6.3 to ~7M). A 3GL 5M GP roster would be farcical.

    Smaller GP rosters cannot compete in the higher leagues if the defensive team placements are fixed. Period.

    There is a gp threshold that it matters less, but that's much higher, consider the gp threshold where both players will have 110 reliced toons and only difference can be relic levels. I think this starts around 7.5m gp.

    And this means that an account at 4M GP and getting 1st in arena today will have their crystals cut just about in half. They will eventually be able to get back to 500/day, but since they are now bringing in fewer crystals it will take them longer than it would have without this change.

    And what about the other 4M GP players in the shard?

    No one is saying this isn't a change, but everyone is acting like the only players who are affected are the ones getting first/second every day. What about everyone who is not in that potential 48 player per shard group?

    Will it take longer? Didnt they just make the first round of changes that will effect that timeline?

    There are many assumptions and guess work going on about where everyone starts and where they will be, but all in all this is better for a large majority of players, and not all of them are at the top.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Drathuk916 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    NicWester wrote: »
    I feel like the folks who say this is going to reduce income across the board are letting slip their chat status. Practically speaking, the maximum number of players per arena shard that could get first place in a day was 24. If you think 24 players (maximum) represent the experience of the rest of the player base then you're pretty out of touch. You weren't earning your crystals, you were part of a cartel that conspired to keep the crystals in their little group.

    For the rest of us, just being in Carbonite 1 is going to give as many daily crystals as we already get.

    So saying that everyone is going to suffer doesn't hold up to scrutiny. The 1% is going to suffer and the rest of us are going to get an increase based on what we deserve, so........

    Sucks to be you. Get good at Grand Arena.

    You do understand there are multiple arena shards, with new ones popping up all the time right.

    You do not like shard chats.... but a newer player that gets #1 because they have the best team in their newer created shard arena will be getting the shaft with this.

    Its always bad to take something from players, its never bad to add something.

    From the discussion we had, there are some cases where it's a decrease, but overall it's an increase.

    When looking at new shards which have the largest active population, this is a blessing, as many of them are averaging a very low income, compared to the average in the new system.

    Perhaps a better explaination is needed. The way im reading it newer players (lvl 85) are going to not be anywhere near kyber payouts.

    Initial gp will lock them in low. Skill will grow them some, but id think that #1 player with a low gp wont be clearing 500 a day

    Yes a small % of players will see lower income, in the situation your are stating.

    Are you sure it will be a small %? If skill rating is all that matters, then new players will eventually hit a wall where they can't win because the high leagues are populated by veterans. Unless they heed Carrie's infamous tweet about catching up, of course...

    Yes I am sure.

    Where do you predict this wall will be?

    My prediction is you can neither fall or climb more than 3 divisions from wherever you are initially placed. I think gac lovers are missing the overall downside for them. Eventually they’ll end up in a space where three matches they can’t lose based on their and their opponents rosters. Three they can’t win, and six where their skill might let them overcome their opponents advantage or their opponent has the skill to overcome theirs.

    This seems to me to be a net loss from a gameplay perspective for those that enjoyed gac and were going 10-2 or better each time.

    From a crystal perspective, most will see an increase sure, but the longer you’ve played the higher your income and the easier it will be to progress. The shorter your play time you’re less likely to see an increase in crystal income but even if you do it’ll be less so it will be harder to increase your income than under the old SA model.

    But once again the effect on current players is immaterial. A new player is now seeing a crystal income max that is smaller and therefore has less reason to whale. So while I believe the majority of players will eventually see this as a net positive for their crystal income, I also see it being harder for cg to acquire new spenders to replace retiring spenders.

    I am not a GAC fan.

    We also dont know the exact way this is going to be measured, and likely never will, but we should all realize that it doesnt need to be a 1 for 1 win to loss, they can be waited differently.

    Why would a new player see less income? You mean the top 50 on a shard may be seeing less income, what about the other few hundred that we locked in at 50?

    Will some, yes. Will investing in the game if they choose to still have a benefit, yes. In fact it will be a longer term benefit than arena with a rolling meta. A top end team can be surpassed multiple times in a GAC roster and still be relevant in the game mode.

    I am not a fan of the change or GAC, but there are some big benefits to the player base as a whole.
  • Nauros wrote: »
    Vitalii wrote: »
    It looks like that with these changes if I put no defence and then make a full clear I will get a win. Even if I will not win several battles from the first attempt. Ratio is easy:
    1. I will get first attack, as my opponent will not face squads on my side of the field
    2. I will get points got defeating units on his side of the field and my opponent will not

    Wait, the "first attack" means that the first one to attack gets it? I interpreted it as each player getting the points for their first attack regardless of when it happens.

    So did I. Based on the table it is presented in, I assume you are correct. It says, "awarded to EACH player once per round." If only one player got it, "each" is a very poor choice of words.

    The table just after shows you can only get rewards if you get 10 points in a round, 20 in an event. The 10 points for attacking means you can still get the rewards even if in the first, gp based, round you are matched against someone who you cannot even beat one squad. So long as you make one attempt, you will still get the losing side rewards and the event rewards. No attempts you get daily only.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    NicWester wrote: »
    I feel like the folks who say this is going to reduce income across the board are letting slip their chat status. Practically speaking, the maximum number of players per arena shard that could get first place in a day was 24. If you think 24 players (maximum) represent the experience of the rest of the player base then you're pretty out of touch. You weren't earning your crystals, you were part of a cartel that conspired to keep the crystals in their little group.

    For the rest of us, just being in Carbonite 1 is going to give as many daily crystals as we already get.

    So saying that everyone is going to suffer doesn't hold up to scrutiny. The 1% is going to suffer and the rest of us are going to get an increase based on what we deserve, so........

    Sucks to be you. Get good at Grand Arena.

    You do understand there are multiple arena shards, with new ones popping up all the time right.

    You do not like shard chats.... but a newer player that gets #1 because they have the best team in their newer created shard arena will be getting the shaft with this.

    Its always bad to take something from players, its never bad to add something.

    From the discussion we had, there are some cases where it's a decrease, but overall it's an increase.

    When looking at new shards which have the largest active population, this is a blessing, as many of them are averaging a very low income, compared to the average in the new system.

    Perhaps a better explaination is needed. The way im reading it newer players (lvl 85) are going to not be anywhere near kyber payouts.

    Initial gp will lock them in low. Skill will grow them some, but id think that #1 player with a low gp wont be clearing 500 a day

    Yes a small % of players will see lower income, in the situation your are stating.

    Are you sure it will be a small %? If skill rating is all that matters, then new players will eventually hit a wall where they can't win because the high leagues are populated by veterans. Unless they heed Carrie's infamous tweet about catching up, of course...

    Yes I am sure.

    Where do you predict this wall will be?

    Was comparing the 110th toon with a guild mate (11 placements = 22 teams = 110 toons). I'm far and away the inferior player (same number of GLs, both have executors), their mods are better. I don't see how I get beat with the bottom of the rosters being what they are. This was with a 700k GP difference (6.3 to ~7M). A 3GL 5M GP roster would be farcical.

    Smaller GP rosters cannot compete in the higher leagues if the defensive team placements are fixed. Period.

    There is a gp threshold that it matters less, but that's much higher, consider the gp threshold where both players will have 110 reliced toons and only difference can be relic levels. I think this starts around 7.5m gp.

    And this means that an account at 4M GP and getting 1st in arena today will have their crystals cut just about in half. They will eventually be able to get back to 500/day, but since they are now bringing in fewer crystals it will take them longer than it would have without this change.

    And what about the other 4M GP players in the shard?

    I mean, by definition (and I thought it was rather obvious) a 4M GP player that is not finishing top 100 in arena will, at least initially, get more crystals.
    No one is saying this isn't a change, but everyone is acting like the only players who are affected are the ones getting first/second every day. What about everyone who is not in that potential 48 player per shard group?

    Well, many of them will be doing better, some will be doing the same, some will be doing worse.
    Will it take longer? Didnt they just make the first round of changes that will effect that timeline?

    Yes, for anyone earning fewer crystals, it will take longer. They made the g12 grind much easier, but did nothing to ease the relic crunch.
    There are many assumptions and guess work going on about where everyone starts and where they will be, but all in all this is better for a large majority of players, and not all of them are at the top.

    I made no assumptions, and we don't have to guess about where everyone starts, and most players probably have a good idea of where they are going. And honestly if you would have read my other posts on the subject, I am in favor of this change, aside from the continued issue of cheating that hasn't been addressed yet. Member tournaments? I member.
  • As someone who has a closed mafia style shard I'm really excited about this. Squad arena is miserable
  • Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    NicWester wrote: »
    I feel like the folks who say this is going to reduce income across the board are letting slip their chat status. Practically speaking, the maximum number of players per arena shard that could get first place in a day was 24. If you think 24 players (maximum) represent the experience of the rest of the player base then you're pretty out of touch. You weren't earning your crystals, you were part of a cartel that conspired to keep the crystals in their little group.

    For the rest of us, just being in Carbonite 1 is going to give as many daily crystals as we already get.

    So saying that everyone is going to suffer doesn't hold up to scrutiny. The 1% is going to suffer and the rest of us are going to get an increase based on what we deserve, so........

    Sucks to be you. Get good at Grand Arena.

    You do understand there are multiple arena shards, with new ones popping up all the time right.

    You do not like shard chats.... but a newer player that gets #1 because they have the best team in their newer created shard arena will be getting the shaft with this.

    Its always bad to take something from players, its never bad to add something.

    From the discussion we had, there are some cases where it's a decrease, but overall it's an increase.

    When looking at new shards which have the largest active population, this is a blessing, as many of them are averaging a very low income, compared to the average in the new system.

    Perhaps a better explaination is needed. The way im reading it newer players (lvl 85) are going to not be anywhere near kyber payouts.

    Initial gp will lock them in low. Skill will grow them some, but id think that #1 player with a low gp wont be clearing 500 a day

    Yes a small % of players will see lower income, in the situation your are stating.

    Are you sure it will be a small %? If skill rating is all that matters, then new players will eventually hit a wall where they can't win because the high leagues are populated by veterans. Unless they heed Carrie's infamous tweet about catching up, of course...

    Yes I am sure.

    Where do you predict this wall will be?

    Was comparing the 110th toon with a guild mate (11 placements = 22 teams = 110 toons). I'm far and away the inferior player (same number of GLs, both have executors), their mods are better. I don't see how I get beat with the bottom of the rosters being what they are. This was with a 700k GP difference (6.3 to ~7M). A 3GL 5M GP roster would be farcical.

    Smaller GP rosters cannot compete in the higher leagues if the defensive team placements are fixed. Period.

    There is a gp threshold that it matters less, but that's much higher, consider the gp threshold where both players will have 110 reliced toons and only difference can be relic levels. I think this starts around 7.5m gp.

    And this means that an account at 4M GP and getting 1st in arena today will have their crystals cut just about in half. They will eventually be able to get back to 500/day, but since they are now bringing in fewer crystals it will take them longer than it would have without this change.

    And what about the other 4M GP players in the shard?

    No one is saying this isn't a change, but everyone is acting like the only players who are affected are the ones getting first/second every day. What about everyone who is not in that potential 48 player per shard group?

    Will it take longer? Didnt they just make the first round of changes that will effect that timeline?

    There are many assumptions and guess work going on about where everyone starts and where they will be, but all in all this is better for a large majority of players, and not all of them are at the top.

    I’m not disagreeing with your assessment but no one in favor of this game change has addressed the flaw pointed out. Newer players to gac have a max crystal income of around 200 crystals/day. How is that max going to encourage new players to spend and replace the lost revenue from retiring players?

    Great the majority of players will see an increase in their crystal income but even that discourages spending by people who were used to slower progress and now will see an acceleration in theirs.

    It is consistently pointed out that cg expects to make a profit and I completely agree with this. This change seems to be a net negative to their potential revenue unless they seriously up the crystal cost to progress too. But that doesn’t work because they’re giving less to newer players for any spending they might be inclined to do.
  • HokieFiend wrote: »
    NicWester wrote: »
    I feel like the folks who say this is going to reduce income across the board are letting slip their chat status. Practically speaking, the maximum number of players per arena shard that could get first place in a day was 24. If you think 24 players (maximum) represent the experience of the rest of the player base then you're pretty out of touch. You weren't earning your crystals, you were part of a cartel that conspired to keep the crystals in their little group.

    For the rest of us, just being in Carbonite 1 is going to give as many daily crystals as we already get.

    So saying that everyone is going to suffer doesn't hold up to scrutiny. The 1% is going to suffer and the rest of us are going to get an increase based on what we deserve, so........

    Sucks to be you. Get good at Grand Arena.

    This is fake news. The vast majority of shard chats allow anyone in and were set up so everyone gets rewards. Id wager many people claiming they are locked out in SA aren't telling the full story. Most of these people are either too prideful to ask to join a chat and/or enjoy causing havoc for other players. Most of these "mafias" aren't that at all. It's collaborative SW-loving communities that were built in this game filled with great people that want you and themselves to get rewards. They are one of the better results of the game.

    SA was an easy way to guarantee progression with <=10 battles per day. GAC is a game mode many hate and for good reason. It's far more time sink to play competitively. GAC defense histories were inexplicably made public. Cheating is rampant. Luck with mod upgrades is a huge factor. Killing any non-GL GL counters removed an incredible amount of balance. Skill is only a small portion of what determines wins.

    The overwhelming negative response shouldn't come as a shock. Forcing a player base to engage in a mode they don't want to will never go over well... as opposed to, you know, creating a mode that was more fun and engaging.

    I don't think getting rid of the crystal income from arenas is a bad idea but I don't think it should have been moved to another PvP game mode. Most successful games realize that there is generally a split on players that lean more PvP or PvE. The outrage here is players being forced into a far more involved and time consuming version of PvP for almost their entire crystal income. Crystal income should be individual and PvE driven imo.

    Technically it's only half. Fleet arena income hasn't moved.
  • Has anything been said regarding the Devs commitment to removing cheating from GAC? I would have expected a pre-emptive statement that increased resources are being allocated to review reports of cheating and investigate to maintain the integrity of GAC for crystal income.
  • If you think this is bad wait until the next 3 grindquests come out.
  • Revan2000 wrote: »
    Has anything been said regarding the Devs commitment to removing cheating from GAC? I would have expected a pre-emptive statement that increased resources are being allocated to review reports of cheating and investigate to maintain the integrity of GAC for crystal income.

    That sounds like it would cost money, so Id doubt it.
  • The people this will hurt the most initially are those in shard chats or finishing in the top 20 or better every day. They will need to adjust their rosters accordingly to now meet the challenge of facing off with rosters similar to theirs now, in a broader fashion and won’t have the protection of their chat to protect them. It’s now solely on their own shoulders.

    IF, and that’s a big IF, this skill ranking system properly matches us up, you need to earn your crystals now through skill and roster development. That’s not that big of a deal, unless you were hyper focused on the meta for SA, or you just flat out hated GAC.

    The success or failure of this will lie in CG’s matchmaking and if they can properly control cheaters and sandbagging. This has the potential to open up crystal income to a broader spectra of people so it’s up to CG to make this work. If it crashes like Grindquest has since season 7, or TW changes to matchmaking, then I can’t see them recovering from such a failure. Lots of questions still.

    Those crying doom and gloom, let’s see what the Q&A has and what the initial MM looks like.
  • Nauros wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Given some time to think, I see the biggest pitfall in the matchmaking. There are two important parameters, GP and win/loss ratio, and they are not exactly correlated. Two players can have the same win/loss but wildly different GP. Over time, a lot of players across GP will gravitate towards 1:1 w/l, and it will be pure hell. Imagine facing players selected randomly from the entire GP range. Unless, of course, the matchmaking isn't as independent on GP as they claim.

    The GP only affects initial seeding. After that, it's not considered. Only our skill rating matters, which is based on performance. If your skill rating is too high, you'll lose more than you win until you settle into the right spot. If you improve your roster suddenly, you should get some easy wins until your skill rating increases appropriately.

    I know all this. My point is that the same skill rating is achievable with wildly different GP. If you fight your peers and win constantly, you will get the same rating as someone who keeps winning against their peers but at double your GP. Or half. It will be a pure coin toss at that point, assuming that the matchmaking really is independent on GP.

    I fail to see the issue here. Consider two players, one at 5M and one at 8M. Their initial seeding will have them spread very far apart. If they should meet someday, that means that the 8M player has been losing and the 5M player has been winning. In theory, their skill gap should be enough to make the matchup interesting. If it is not, the 5M player will lose some skill rating and the 8M player will gain some back, and the system corrects itself.

    Well, that's the thing I detailed in one of my other posts. Either the initial seeding keeps them separated, and new players (seeded to the bottom) will most likely never get very high, or it doesn't and GP mismatches will be common. The solution would be to let skill rating define your league and division and then pull your 7 opponents for the given run based on GP, but from the SOTG it seems that GP won't be taken into account at all.

    I just don't see why GP should be a metric if you have a skill rating. I'm tired of efficiency rosters getting easy matches. I'm tired of hoarding upgrades for GL farms because it'll adversely affect my matchmaking. Ignoring GP (after the initial seeding, which happens one time, ever), seems like a huge improvement to me.

    "new players (seeded to the bottom)"

    This begs a question. Where will new level 85 players get slotted. At the very bottom with a skill rating of 0 (or whatever the minimum is)?

    GP should be a factor because it is a measure of what you have at your disposal. To use an analogy (always a good idea on the forum!) the previous matchmaking matched casual bikers with winners of tour de france. Purely skill-based one will match bicycles with motorbikes as long as both riders are at the same skill level. Neither sounds very good to me.

    To improve your analogy. It will match a cyclist with a biker only if they are routinely completing the course in the same amount of time. And if that's the case, who cares what contraption they rode on?

    Problem with those analogies is that you dont start of with the same kind of opponents. A 8 million GP player might lose against 3 other 8 million GP players and a 4 million GP player might win against 3 other 4 million GP players, but that doesnt mean they should be matched against eachother.

    For a more accurate analogy, lets say a 150 kg wrestler who lost 3 matches in a row in his weightclass got matched against a 80 kg wrestler who won 3 matches in his weightclass. Anyone with half a brain can see the issue here.

    God, I'm done with the analogies.

    Another thing to keep in mind, if these "bad whales" keep losing and fall out of Kyber, there will be fewer slots to fill, which means leaner rosters from more skilled players will be able to compete.
  • sloweagle wrote: »
    People who love GAC and think the change is good are missing a simple reasoning, in the past, skills in not in matchmaking, so whatever matchmaking, people with better skills always have an edge, and personally I enjoying beating a stronger rosters with better skills. But going forward , some kinda of skills will be factored into the matchmaking, that edge will be gone.

    Mathematically, it simply means moving everyone’s record closer to 6-6. Those 12-0,11-1,10-2, 0-12, 1-11, 2-10 will be increasingly less. So if you are a GAC lover with consistently 10-2 or better record, watching out. It is really simple math.

    This is correct.

    People who get 10-2 today will need to work their tail off tomorrow to go 6-6.

    Grand Arena will be more of a chore than Conquest.

    I'd much rather have the expectation of 6-6 with even opponents than the current GAC stress of 12-0 or I wasted my time.
  • Starslayer wrote: »
    Just realised that the skill system will only account victories, if i understood correctly. So no need to full clear to score high, so no need to play offense.

    I see walls of GLs in my future.

    I hope I see a wall of GLs in my future. I have never lost to someone that went all in on defense.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    NicWester wrote: »
    I feel like the folks who say this is going to reduce income across the board are letting slip their chat status. Practically speaking, the maximum number of players per arena shard that could get first place in a day was 24. If you think 24 players (maximum) represent the experience of the rest of the player base then you're pretty out of touch. You weren't earning your crystals, you were part of a cartel that conspired to keep the crystals in their little group.

    For the rest of us, just being in Carbonite 1 is going to give as many daily crystals as we already get.

    So saying that everyone is going to suffer doesn't hold up to scrutiny. The 1% is going to suffer and the rest of us are going to get an increase based on what we deserve, so........

    Sucks to be you. Get good at Grand Arena.

    You do understand there are multiple arena shards, with new ones popping up all the time right.

    You do not like shard chats.... but a newer player that gets #1 because they have the best team in their newer created shard arena will be getting the shaft with this.

    Its always bad to take something from players, its never bad to add something.

    From the discussion we had, there are some cases where it's a decrease, but overall it's an increase.

    When looking at new shards which have the largest active population, this is a blessing, as many of them are averaging a very low income, compared to the average in the new system.

    Perhaps a better explaination is needed. The way im reading it newer players (lvl 85) are going to not be anywhere near kyber payouts.

    Initial gp will lock them in low. Skill will grow them some, but id think that #1 player with a low gp wont be clearing 500 a day

    Yes a small % of players will see lower income, in the situation your are stating.

    Are you sure it will be a small %? If skill rating is all that matters, then new players will eventually hit a wall where they can't win because the high leagues are populated by veterans. Unless they heed Carrie's infamous tweet about catching up, of course...

    Yes I am sure.

    Where do you predict this wall will be?

    Was comparing the 110th toon with a guild mate (11 placements = 22 teams = 110 toons). I'm far and away the inferior player (same number of GLs, both have executors), their mods are better. I don't see how I get beat with the bottom of the rosters being what they are. This was with a 700k GP difference (6.3 to ~7M). A 3GL 5M GP roster would be farcical.

    Smaller GP rosters cannot compete in the higher leagues if the defensive team placements are fixed. Period.

    There is a gp threshold that it matters less, but that's much higher, consider the gp threshold where both players will have 110 reliced toons and only difference can be relic levels. I think this starts around 7.5m gp.

    And this means that an account at 4M GP and getting 1st in arena today will have their crystals cut just about in half. They will eventually be able to get back to 500/day, but since they are now bringing in fewer crystals it will take them longer than it would have without this change.

    And what about the other 4M GP players in the shard?

    I mean, by definition (and I thought it was rather obvious) a 4M GP player that is not finishing top 100 in arena will, at least initially, get more crystals.
    No one is saying this isn't a change, but everyone is acting like the only players who are affected are the ones getting first/second every day. What about everyone who is not in that potential 48 player per shard group?

    Well, many of them will be doing better, some will be doing the same, some will be doing worse.
    Will it take longer? Didnt they just make the first round of changes that will effect that timeline?

    Yes, for anyone earning fewer crystals, it will take longer. They made the g12 grind much easier, but did nothing to ease the relic crunch.
    There are many assumptions and guess work going on about where everyone starts and where they will be, but all in all this is better for a large majority of players, and not all of them are at the top.

    I made no assumptions, and we don't have to guess about where everyone starts, and most players probably have a good idea of where they are going. And honestly if you would have read my other posts on the subject, I am in favor of this change, aside from the continued issue of cheating that hasn't been addressed yet. Member tournaments? I member.

    Breaking top 100? More like the yop 20 or even 10. 4m GP is around 250 average

    The amount doing worse should very low. You can see from the numbers you have to be in chromium just to start bringing your average down to lower than anyone outside of the 100 mark.

    In phase 1 they did g12 (ish), but they still have more planned.

    Again, over the number of shards, and the number of players, the way the shard PO system was lined up, this is a net benefit for the player base.

    Many of the conversations start with a 500 crystals income, when that is a very limited group that actually bring that in. I am not saying you said this exact number, but others have and that is what I was referencing.

    I would question your recognition of tournaments if you are comparing the 2 in any direct way.

    Without knowing how wins and losses move us around, I think players dont have a good idea of where they are going, or how long it will take them to get there.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    NicWester wrote: »
    I feel like the folks who say this is going to reduce income across the board are letting slip their chat status. Practically speaking, the maximum number of players per arena shard that could get first place in a day was 24. If you think 24 players (maximum) represent the experience of the rest of the player base then you're pretty out of touch. You weren't earning your crystals, you were part of a cartel that conspired to keep the crystals in their little group.

    For the rest of us, just being in Carbonite 1 is going to give as many daily crystals as we already get.

    So saying that everyone is going to suffer doesn't hold up to scrutiny. The 1% is going to suffer and the rest of us are going to get an increase based on what we deserve, so........

    Sucks to be you. Get good at Grand Arena.

    You do understand there are multiple arena shards, with new ones popping up all the time right.

    You do not like shard chats.... but a newer player that gets #1 because they have the best team in their newer created shard arena will be getting the shaft with this.

    Its always bad to take something from players, its never bad to add something.

    From the discussion we had, there are some cases where it's a decrease, but overall it's an increase.

    When looking at new shards which have the largest active population, this is a blessing, as many of them are averaging a very low income, compared to the average in the new system.

    Perhaps a better explaination is needed. The way im reading it newer players (lvl 85) are going to not be anywhere near kyber payouts.

    Initial gp will lock them in low. Skill will grow them some, but id think that #1 player with a low gp wont be clearing 500 a day

    Yes a small % of players will see lower income, in the situation your are stating.

    Are you sure it will be a small %? If skill rating is all that matters, then new players will eventually hit a wall where they can't win because the high leagues are populated by veterans. Unless they heed Carrie's infamous tweet about catching up, of course...

    Yes I am sure.

    Where do you predict this wall will be?

    Was comparing the 110th toon with a guild mate (11 placements = 22 teams = 110 toons). I'm far and away the inferior player (same number of GLs, both have executors), their mods are better. I don't see how I get beat with the bottom of the rosters being what they are. This was with a 700k GP difference (6.3 to ~7M). A 3GL 5M GP roster would be farcical.

    Smaller GP rosters cannot compete in the higher leagues if the defensive team placements are fixed. Period.

    There is a gp threshold that it matters less, but that's much higher, consider the gp threshold where both players will have 110 reliced toons and only difference can be relic levels. I think this starts around 7.5m gp.

    And this means that an account at 4M GP and getting 1st in arena today will have their crystals cut just about in half. They will eventually be able to get back to 500/day, but since they are now bringing in fewer crystals it will take them longer than it would have without this change.

    And what about the other 4M GP players in the shard?

    I mean, by definition (and I thought it was rather obvious) a 4M GP player that is not finishing top 100 in arena will, at least initially, get more crystals.
    No one is saying this isn't a change, but everyone is acting like the only players who are affected are the ones getting first/second every day. What about everyone who is not in that potential 48 player per shard group?

    Well, many of them will be doing better, some will be doing the same, some will be doing worse.
    Will it take longer? Didnt they just make the first round of changes that will effect that timeline?

    Yes, for anyone earning fewer crystals, it will take longer. They made the g12 grind much easier, but did nothing to ease the relic crunch.
    There are many assumptions and guess work going on about where everyone starts and where they will be, but all in all this is better for a large majority of players, and not all of them are at the top.

    I made no assumptions, and we don't have to guess about where everyone starts, and most players probably have a good idea of where they are going. And honestly if you would have read my other posts on the subject, I am in favor of this change, aside from the continued issue of cheating that hasn't been addressed yet. Member tournaments? I member.

    Breaking top 100? More like the yop 20 or even 10. 4m GP is around 250 average

    The amount doing worse should very low. You can see from the numbers you have to be in chromium just to start bringing your average down to lower than anyone outside of the 100 mark.

    In phase 1 they did g12 (ish), but they still have more planned.

    Again, over the number of shards, and the number of players, the way the shard PO system was lined up, this is a net benefit for the player base.

    Many of the conversations start with a 500 crystals income, when that is a very limited group that actually bring that in. I am not saying you said this exact number, but others have and that is what I was referencing.

    I would question your recognition of tournaments if you are comparing the 2 in any direct way.

    Without knowing how wins and losses move us around, I think players dont have a good idea of where they are going, or how long it will take them to get there.

    Speaking of the gear economy changes and P1….any chance the Q&A touches on the next part of phase 1? Or is the Q&A strictly for the upcoming GAC/SA changes
  • Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    NicWester wrote: »
    I feel like the folks who say this is going to reduce income across the board are letting slip their chat status. Practically speaking, the maximum number of players per arena shard that could get first place in a day was 24. If you think 24 players (maximum) represent the experience of the rest of the player base then you're pretty out of touch. You weren't earning your crystals, you were part of a cartel that conspired to keep the crystals in their little group.

    For the rest of us, just being in Carbonite 1 is going to give as many daily crystals as we already get.

    So saying that everyone is going to suffer doesn't hold up to scrutiny. The 1% is going to suffer and the rest of us are going to get an increase based on what we deserve, so........

    Sucks to be you. Get good at Grand Arena.

    You do understand there are multiple arena shards, with new ones popping up all the time right.

    You do not like shard chats.... but a newer player that gets #1 because they have the best team in their newer created shard arena will be getting the shaft with this.

    Its always bad to take something from players, its never bad to add something.

    From the discussion we had, there are some cases where it's a decrease, but overall it's an increase.

    When looking at new shards which have the largest active population, this is a blessing, as many of them are averaging a very low income, compared to the average in the new system.

    Perhaps a better explaination is needed. The way im reading it newer players (lvl 85) are going to not be anywhere near kyber payouts.

    Initial gp will lock them in low. Skill will grow them some, but id think that #1 player with a low gp wont be clearing 500 a day

    Yes a small % of players will see lower income, in the situation your are stating.

    Are you sure it will be a small %? If skill rating is all that matters, then new players will eventually hit a wall where they can't win because the high leagues are populated by veterans. Unless they heed Carrie's infamous tweet about catching up, of course...

    Yes I am sure.

    Where do you predict this wall will be?

    Was comparing the 110th toon with a guild mate (11 placements = 22 teams = 110 toons). I'm far and away the inferior player (same number of GLs, both have executors), their mods are better. I don't see how I get beat with the bottom of the rosters being what they are. This was with a 700k GP difference (6.3 to ~7M). A 3GL 5M GP roster would be farcical.

    Smaller GP rosters cannot compete in the higher leagues if the defensive team placements are fixed. Period.

    There is a gp threshold that it matters less, but that's much higher, consider the gp threshold where both players will have 110 reliced toons and only difference can be relic levels. I think this starts around 7.5m gp.

    And this means that an account at 4M GP and getting 1st in arena today will have their crystals cut just about in half. They will eventually be able to get back to 500/day, but since they are now bringing in fewer crystals it will take them longer than it would have without this change.

    And what about the other 4M GP players in the shard?

    I mean, by definition (and I thought it was rather obvious) a 4M GP player that is not finishing top 100 in arena will, at least initially, get more crystals.
    No one is saying this isn't a change, but everyone is acting like the only players who are affected are the ones getting first/second every day. What about everyone who is not in that potential 48 player per shard group?

    Well, many of them will be doing better, some will be doing the same, some will be doing worse.
    Will it take longer? Didnt they just make the first round of changes that will effect that timeline?

    Yes, for anyone earning fewer crystals, it will take longer. They made the g12 grind much easier, but did nothing to ease the relic crunch.
    There are many assumptions and guess work going on about where everyone starts and where they will be, but all in all this is better for a large majority of players, and not all of them are at the top.

    I made no assumptions, and we don't have to guess about where everyone starts, and most players probably have a good idea of where they are going. And honestly if you would have read my other posts on the subject, I am in favor of this change, aside from the continued issue of cheating that hasn't been addressed yet. Member tournaments? I member.

    Breaking top 100? More like the yop 20 or even 10. 4m GP is around 250 average

    The amount doing worse should very low. You can see from the numbers you have to be in chromium just to start bringing your average down to lower than anyone outside of the 100 mark.

    In phase 1 they did g12 (ish), but they still have more planned.

    Again, over the number of shards, and the number of players, the way the shard PO system was lined up, this is a net benefit for the player base.

    Many of the conversations start with a 500 crystals income, when that is a very limited group that actually bring that in. I am not saying you said this exact number, but others have and that is what I was referencing.

    I would question your recognition of tournaments if you are comparing the 2 in any direct way.

    Without knowing how wins and losses move us around, I think players dont have a good idea of where they are going, or how long it will take them to get there.

    You kind of amaze me sometimes. I never once said the amount of players hurt by this change was a lot.

    And I'm not comparing the game modes, I'm comparing the cheating. Tournaments were shut down largely because cheating was rampant. I see no reason why that won't be the same here, though not sure they'll be able to just shut down GAC.
  • Cheating is a legit concern, since it was so rampant in the prior iteration of tournaments. I hope they are hiring some help for Lucifer’s Daddy.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    NicWester wrote: »
    I feel like the folks who say this is going to reduce income across the board are letting slip their chat status. Practically speaking, the maximum number of players per arena shard that could get first place in a day was 24. If you think 24 players (maximum) represent the experience of the rest of the player base then you're pretty out of touch. You weren't earning your crystals, you were part of a cartel that conspired to keep the crystals in their little group.

    For the rest of us, just being in Carbonite 1 is going to give as many daily crystals as we already get.

    So saying that everyone is going to suffer doesn't hold up to scrutiny. The 1% is going to suffer and the rest of us are going to get an increase based on what we deserve, so........

    Sucks to be you. Get good at Grand Arena.

    You do understand there are multiple arena shards, with new ones popping up all the time right.

    You do not like shard chats.... but a newer player that gets #1 because they have the best team in their newer created shard arena will be getting the shaft with this.

    Its always bad to take something from players, its never bad to add something.

    From the discussion we had, there are some cases where it's a decrease, but overall it's an increase.

    When looking at new shards which have the largest active population, this is a blessing, as many of them are averaging a very low income, compared to the average in the new system.

    Perhaps a better explaination is needed. The way im reading it newer players (lvl 85) are going to not be anywhere near kyber payouts.

    Initial gp will lock them in low. Skill will grow them some, but id think that #1 player with a low gp wont be clearing 500 a day

    Yes a small % of players will see lower income, in the situation your are stating.

    Are you sure it will be a small %? If skill rating is all that matters, then new players will eventually hit a wall where they can't win because the high leagues are populated by veterans. Unless they heed Carrie's infamous tweet about catching up, of course...

    Yes I am sure.

    Where do you predict this wall will be?

    Was comparing the 110th toon with a guild mate (11 placements = 22 teams = 110 toons). I'm far and away the inferior player (same number of GLs, both have executors), their mods are better. I don't see how I get beat with the bottom of the rosters being what they are. This was with a 700k GP difference (6.3 to ~7M). A 3GL 5M GP roster would be farcical.

    Smaller GP rosters cannot compete in the higher leagues if the defensive team placements are fixed. Period.

    There is a gp threshold that it matters less, but that's much higher, consider the gp threshold where both players will have 110 reliced toons and only difference can be relic levels. I think this starts around 7.5m gp.

    And this means that an account at 4M GP and getting 1st in arena today will have their crystals cut just about in half. They will eventually be able to get back to 500/day, but since they are now bringing in fewer crystals it will take them longer than it would have without this change.

    And what about the other 4M GP players in the shard?

    I mean, by definition (and I thought it was rather obvious) a 4M GP player that is not finishing top 100 in arena will, at least initially, get more crystals.
    No one is saying this isn't a change, but everyone is acting like the only players who are affected are the ones getting first/second every day. What about everyone who is not in that potential 48 player per shard group?

    Well, many of them will be doing better, some will be doing the same, some will be doing worse.
    Will it take longer? Didnt they just make the first round of changes that will effect that timeline?

    Yes, for anyone earning fewer crystals, it will take longer. They made the g12 grind much easier, but did nothing to ease the relic crunch.
    There are many assumptions and guess work going on about where everyone starts and where they will be, but all in all this is better for a large majority of players, and not all of them are at the top.

    I made no assumptions, and we don't have to guess about where everyone starts, and most players probably have a good idea of where they are going. And honestly if you would have read my other posts on the subject, I am in favor of this change, aside from the continued issue of cheating that hasn't been addressed yet. Member tournaments? I member.

    Breaking top 100? More like the yop 20 or even 10. 4m GP is around 250 average

    The amount doing worse should very low. You can see from the numbers you have to be in chromium just to start bringing your average down to lower than anyone outside of the 100 mark.

    In phase 1 they did g12 (ish), but they still have more planned.

    Again, over the number of shards, and the number of players, the way the shard PO system was lined up, this is a net benefit for the player base.

    Many of the conversations start with a 500 crystals income, when that is a very limited group that actually bring that in. I am not saying you said this exact number, but others have and that is what I was referencing.

    I would question your recognition of tournaments if you are comparing the 2 in any direct way.

    Without knowing how wins and losses move us around, I think players dont have a good idea of where they are going, or how long it will take them to get there.

    Speaking of the gear economy changes and P1….any chance the Q&A touches on the next part of phase 1? Or is the Q&A strictly for the upcoming GAC/SA changes

    That's not a bad question, but I believe they are gearing this QA to GAC, so they may not be able to give answers.

    I would expect to hear about things soon ish, but with the holiday and stuff it may be more realistic to expect things in the early part of the new year.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    NicWester wrote: »
    I feel like the folks who say this is going to reduce income across the board are letting slip their chat status. Practically speaking, the maximum number of players per arena shard that could get first place in a day was 24. If you think 24 players (maximum) represent the experience of the rest of the player base then you're pretty out of touch. You weren't earning your crystals, you were part of a cartel that conspired to keep the crystals in their little group.

    For the rest of us, just being in Carbonite 1 is going to give as many daily crystals as we already get.

    So saying that everyone is going to suffer doesn't hold up to scrutiny. The 1% is going to suffer and the rest of us are going to get an increase based on what we deserve, so........

    Sucks to be you. Get good at Grand Arena.

    You do understand there are multiple arena shards, with new ones popping up all the time right.

    You do not like shard chats.... but a newer player that gets #1 because they have the best team in their newer created shard arena will be getting the shaft with this.

    Its always bad to take something from players, its never bad to add something.

    From the discussion we had, there are some cases where it's a decrease, but overall it's an increase.

    When looking at new shards which have the largest active population, this is a blessing, as many of them are averaging a very low income, compared to the average in the new system.

    Perhaps a better explaination is needed. The way im reading it newer players (lvl 85) are going to not be anywhere near kyber payouts.

    Initial gp will lock them in low. Skill will grow them some, but id think that #1 player with a low gp wont be clearing 500 a day

    Yes a small % of players will see lower income, in the situation your are stating.

    Are you sure it will be a small %? If skill rating is all that matters, then new players will eventually hit a wall where they can't win because the high leagues are populated by veterans. Unless they heed Carrie's infamous tweet about catching up, of course...

    Yes I am sure.

    Where do you predict this wall will be?

    Was comparing the 110th toon with a guild mate (11 placements = 22 teams = 110 toons). I'm far and away the inferior player (same number of GLs, both have executors), their mods are better. I don't see how I get beat with the bottom of the rosters being what they are. This was with a 700k GP difference (6.3 to ~7M). A 3GL 5M GP roster would be farcical.

    Smaller GP rosters cannot compete in the higher leagues if the defensive team placements are fixed. Period.

    There is a gp threshold that it matters less, but that's much higher, consider the gp threshold where both players will have 110 reliced toons and only difference can be relic levels. I think this starts around 7.5m gp.

    And this means that an account at 4M GP and getting 1st in arena today will have their crystals cut just about in half. They will eventually be able to get back to 500/day, but since they are now bringing in fewer crystals it will take them longer than it would have without this change.

    And what about the other 4M GP players in the shard?

    I mean, by definition (and I thought it was rather obvious) a 4M GP player that is not finishing top 100 in arena will, at least initially, get more crystals.
    No one is saying this isn't a change, but everyone is acting like the only players who are affected are the ones getting first/second every day. What about everyone who is not in that potential 48 player per shard group?

    Well, many of them will be doing better, some will be doing the same, some will be doing worse.
    Will it take longer? Didnt they just make the first round of changes that will effect that timeline?

    Yes, for anyone earning fewer crystals, it will take longer. They made the g12 grind much easier, but did nothing to ease the relic crunch.
    There are many assumptions and guess work going on about where everyone starts and where they will be, but all in all this is better for a large majority of players, and not all of them are at the top.

    I made no assumptions, and we don't have to guess about where everyone starts, and most players probably have a good idea of where they are going. And honestly if you would have read my other posts on the subject, I am in favor of this change, aside from the continued issue of cheating that hasn't been addressed yet. Member tournaments? I member.

    Breaking top 100? More like the yop 20 or even 10. 4m GP is around 250 average

    The amount doing worse should very low. You can see from the numbers you have to be in chromium just to start bringing your average down to lower than anyone outside of the 100 mark.

    In phase 1 they did g12 (ish), but they still have more planned.

    Again, over the number of shards, and the number of players, the way the shard PO system was lined up, this is a net benefit for the player base.

    Many of the conversations start with a 500 crystals income, when that is a very limited group that actually bring that in. I am not saying you said this exact number, but others have and that is what I was referencing.

    I would question your recognition of tournaments if you are comparing the 2 in any direct way.

    Without knowing how wins and losses move us around, I think players dont have a good idea of where they are going, or how long it will take them to get there.

    You kind of amaze me sometimes. I never once said the amount of players hurt by this change was a lot.

    And I'm not comparing the game modes, I'm comparing the cheating. Tournaments were shut down largely because cheating was rampant. I see no reason why that won't be the same here, though not sure they'll be able to just shut down GAC.

    It was shut down due to the event style itself being open to a particular type of cheating. GAC is does not have that particular flaw, or any flaw that allows it to run the show the way it did there.
  • I wish they would get rid of both squad and fleet arena rewards if they want us to do more in Grand Arena. Grand Arena takes a lot of time and it would be nice to not also have the other arenas to worry about.
  • LukeDukem8
    605 posts Member
    edited November 2021
    sloweagle wrote: »
    People who love GAC and think the change is good are missing a simple reasoning, in the past, skills in not in matchmaking, so whatever matchmaking, people with better skills always have an edge, and personally I enjoying beating a stronger rosters with better skills. But going forward , some kinda of skills will be factored into the matchmaking, that edge will be gone.

    Mathematically, it simply means moving everyone’s record closer to 6-6. Those 12-0,11-1,10-2, 0-12, 1-11, 2-10 will be increasingly less. So if you are a GAC lover with consistently 10-2 or better record, watching out. It is really simple math.

    This is correct.

    People who get 10-2 today will need to work their tail off tomorrow to go 6-6.

    Grand Arena will be more of a chore than Conquest.

    and they will still get more cc income than placing 1 shard arena.
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