Developer Q&A - Grand Arena Championship Changes - 12/02

Replies

  • Kyno wrote: »
    Whatelse73 wrote: »
    If the arena changes are happening on the 8th, but GAC doesn't start until the 13th, will we be getting crystals from the arena (old) or from our new GAC positioning for those 5 days? That's 2000-2500 crystals which is a big deal for many.

    We are still looking for answers on this one, but overall the losses will be less than that, while you can look at the daily average to see what your average will be, each day will not be paying out that much, as a large portion of that comes from activity in GAC.

    We could just look at the 35 day period as starting when arena changes and ending a couple of days after the first season. In the end it is not going to matter
  • Ultra wrote: »
    Previously, we've had Squad Arena and Grand Arena,

    To me, it feels like Squad Arena is useless to participate in, so as far as time commitment goes, you have ~30+ minutes back in your day

    Seems like you have gained time, rather than losing it, unless you never played GAC before this change, then you are still saving more time imo since setting defenses doesn't take too long, plus you can auto set in rounds 2/3 or use third party tools to autoset your defense comps in every round

    So defense phases are giving you + ~20 mins of your day back, and on off-weeks you are saving more time

    So I really disagree with the time commitment being increased now

    While to some degree I agree with this, I think part of the problem is people have felt previously that GAC is useless to participate in and have taken that time back. And now it’s very much not useless, so that time must be reinvested, and GAC definitely takes more time than SA. Not every day, but on Attack days it does.
  • Ultra
    9696 posts Moderator
    TargetEadu wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    Previously, we've had Squad Arena and Grand Arena,

    To me, it feels like Squad Arena is useless to participate in, so as far as time commitment goes, you have ~30+ minutes back in your day

    Seems like you have gained time, rather than losing it, unless you never played GAC before this change, then you are still saving more time imo since setting defenses doesn't take too long, plus you can auto set in rounds 2/3 or use third party tools to autoset your defense comps in every round

    So defense phases are giving you + ~20 mins of your day back, and on off-weeks you are saving more time

    So I really disagree with the time commitment being increased now

    While to some degree I agree with this, I think part of the problem is people have felt previously that GAC is useless to participate in and have taken that time back. And now it’s very much not useless, so that time must be reinvested, and GAC definitely takes more time than SA. Not every day, but on Attack days it does.
    It depends on how far you drop in squad arena for that, but if those players ignore SA, the time sink should be about the same or less (sometimes more) but on average it should be about the same

    from my own experience, SA would take more time (usually it would take me 1 refresh so it would be 6+ battles per day) than GAC did for me, which I know isn't the same for everyone

    but if you add up the amount of time you spend per week (defense + attack) vs daily SA climbs, I don't think you can disagree that you are saving more time

    Another benefit of GAC is that you don't have to do all your attacks in one sitting, you have 24 hours to attack whenever

    5~10 minutes here and there 3-4 times should be enough for an average player
  • TOPIC: Gameplay Questions

    Q: How do you intend to make sure players still set GAC defense since you are removing banners from placing defense? Since banners are no longer earned from placing Defense, what measures will there be to penalize players who leave zones empty to increase their attack roster? What happens if no Defenses are set?
    • A: Players facing empty Defenses will receive full credit for Defense or Zone. Not setting a Defense is a pretty surefire way to lose and after a while you'll be dropping Leagues and Divisions which means worse and worse rewards. -Jay

    Reading through this, and I just wanted to make sure I understand the points. In Kyber you are to set 11 defensees in 3 territories. If instead, I just left 1 defensive squad unset, that would leave my opponent with 10 battles. Does that mean they would automatically get 69 banners (15 for win, 30 for first attempt, 3 for 1 surviving character at max health/prot, 16 for unused slots, and 5 for defeated characters) for the 1 squad I left unset?

    What if instead of setting no defenses, I just leave a character out of several squads that I set on defense that don't add as much to the team, or put a single character on a defensive team? The opponent would then miss out on 1 banner for each character I did that with, correct? If I am stretched for teams in the low division of Kyber, then it may be worth putting a single character in a few defensive slots that would strip a few banners because my opponent can't kill all 5 characters in my squad. Or, is this accounted for in the final scoring where it just figures a missing character in a defense counts as a unit defeated? It doesn't seem quite right that it would be that way. If I have a 4 character squad that can put up a good enough defense that my opponent doesn't have more health/protection because of it, I would see that as my skill being better at setting defenses and making use of my roster better.
  • Wizkid1891 wrote: »
    TOPIC: Gameplay Questions

    Q: How do you intend to make sure players still set GAC defense since you are removing banners from placing defense? Since banners are no longer earned from placing Defense, what measures will there be to penalize players who leave zones empty to increase their attack roster? What happens if no Defenses are set?
    • A: Players facing empty Defenses will receive full credit for Defense or Zone. Not setting a Defense is a pretty surefire way to lose and after a while you'll be dropping Leagues and Divisions which means worse and worse rewards. -Jay

    Reading through this, and I just wanted to make sure I understand the points. In Kyber you are to set 11 defensees in 3 territories. If instead, I just left 1 defensive squad unset, that would leave my opponent with 10 battles. Does that mean they would automatically get 69 banners (15 for win, 30 for first attempt, 3 for 1 surviving character at max health/prot, 16 for unused slots, and 5 for defeated characters) for the 1 squad I left unset?

    What if instead of setting no defenses, I just leave a character out of several squads that I set on defense that don't add as much to the team, or put a single character on a defensive team? The opponent would then miss out on 1 banner for each character I did that with, correct? If I am stretched for teams in the low division of Kyber, then it may be worth putting a single character in a few defensive slots that would strip a few banners because my opponent can't kill all 5 characters in my squad. Or, is this accounted for in the final scoring where it just figures a missing character in a defense counts as a unit defeated? It doesn't seem quite right that it would be that way. If I have a 4 character squad that can put up a good enough defense that my opponent doesn't have more health/protection because of it, I would see that as my skill being better at setting defenses and making use of my roster better.

    Someone said earlier in this thread that the game requires you to set 5 characters in 5v5 and 3 in 3v3 on a defensive squad. As I have never tried otherwise I don't know whether that is really the case. If it is, then that eliminates a lot of these questions.
  • Bah, my question didn't come up.

    How does the banner per defeated enemy system work for fleets?

    Do you only get a banner for ships that actually made it on the field and got defeated? Or does winning get you points as if you killed all the reinforcements?

    What if the reinforcement are not full? Does that have an effect on the score? Would setting a fleet with only 2 reinforcements be giving my opponent 2 points for free? Or denying my opponent the opportunity to score 2 points?

    What about a 4 to 6 star capital ship? Will it be a tactic to use a 4 star capital ship because my opponent can't get as many points because I'm not allowed to put in as many ships? Or will it hurt me, because I give them 1-3 points automatically?

    I've had plenty of GAC matches that came down to 3 or less points. This is important to know.
  • I have never tried setting less than a full squad on defense since I never really saw any advantage to it, but if that is true, then an undermanned squad would not matter. However, the points for a completely missing defense could matter. If you don't get the 5 banners for defeated characters, that would make it possible for an unset defense not being a sure loss for somebody. Therefore, it could be a better option than setting a weak defensive team.
  • Bah, my question didn't come up.

    How does the banner per defeated enemy system work for fleets?

    Do you only get a banner for ships that actually made it on the field and got defeated? Or does winning get you points as if you killed all the reinforcements?

    What if the reinforcement are not full? Does that have an effect on the score? Would setting a fleet with only 2 reinforcements be giving my opponent 2 points for free? Or denying my opponent the opportunity to score 2 points?

    What about a 4 to 6 star capital ship? Will it be a tactic to use a 4 star capital ship because my opponent can't get as many points because I'm not allowed to put in as many ships? Or will it hurt me, because I give them 1-3 points automatically?

    I've had plenty of GAC matches that came down to 3 or less points. This is important to know.

    Considering the low number of questions that actually were answered, I bet they didn't answer a lot of them.

    I wouldn't be surprised if they missed out on the details of the point system for the fleet battles and they will be testing that next week to find out how it works.

    Definitely some good details to know.
  • Wizkid1891 wrote: »
    I have never tried setting less than a full squad on defense since I never really saw any advantage to it, but if that is true, then an undermanned squad would not matter. However, the points for a completely missing defense could matter. If you don't get the 5 banners for defeated characters, that would make it possible for an unset defense not being a sure loss for somebody. Therefore, it could be a better option than setting a weak defensive team.
    You can’t set a team on defence with fewer than the required number of starting characters
  • What does the future of squad arena hold?
  • Ultra wrote: »
    Another benefit of GAC is that you don't have to do all your attacks in one sitting, you have 24 hours to attack whenever

    Speaking of this. Would be really nice of CG removed the ability to see your opponent's attacks until the round is over. Now that GAC is so important and matches will be more even, the gains from going second are too great to ignore, IMO.
  • From CG_Jay:
    For Fleet, unsummoned reinforcements and unused reinforcement slot (due to low-star capital ships or otherwise) still grant the defeated enemy flag.

    As an example, consider the following:
    Defense Setup:
    Capital Ship
    - 6* Home One
    Starter Ships
    - Biggs X-Wing
    - HMF
    - Ghost
    Reinforcements
    - Phantom
    - Wedge X-Wing
    - <Unfilled Reinforcement>
    - <Unavailable Reinforcement>

    Scenario a)
    If the Attacker joins the battle and loses outright without destroying any defending ships, they should receive 2 banners for the missing Reinforcements. 1 Banner for each unused slot (1 for low cap ship stars slot, 1 for the unfilled slot)

    Scenario b)
    If the Attacker kills all 3 Starter Ships before any Reinforcements are deployed, the Attacker should receive the full 7 Banners for Defeated Enemies.

    (Also defeating a Capital Ship should not grant a Defeated Enemy Banner (e.g. Executor and Raddus))

    This seems like a very "gamable" system someone who can't clear a fleet but has more capital ships can effectively farm points just going into the battle and losing and getting the points from the missing reinforcements on the enemy side. Is there something in place to only give the defeated points once for missing reinforcements or to block this?
  • Bah, my question didn't come up.

    How does the banner per defeated enemy system work for fleets?

    Do you only get a banner for ships that actually made it on the field and got defeated? Or does winning get you points as if you killed all the reinforcements?

    What if the reinforcement are not full? Does that have an effect on the score? Would setting a fleet with only 2 reinforcements be giving my opponent 2 points for free? Or denying my opponent the opportunity to score 2 points?

    What about a 4 to 6 star capital ship? Will it be a tactic to use a 4 star capital ship because my opponent can't get as many points because I'm not allowed to put in as many ships? Or will it hurt me, because I give them 1-3 points automatically?

    I've had plenty of GAC matches that came down to 3 or less points. This is important to know.
    From CG_Jay:
    For Fleet, unsummoned reinforcements and unused reinforcement slot (due to low-star capital ships or otherwise) still grant the defeated enemy flag.

    As an example, consider the following:
    Defense Setup:
    Capital Ship
    - 6* Home One
    Starter Ships
    - Biggs X-Wing
    - HMF
    - Ghost
    Reinforcements
    - Phantom
    - Wedge X-Wing
    - <Unfilled Reinforcement>
    - <Unavailable Reinforcement>

    Scenario a)
    If the Attacker joins the battle and loses outright without destroying any defending ships, they should receive 2 banners for the missing Reinforcements. 1 Banner for each unused slot (1 for low cap ship stars slot, 1 for the unfilled slot)

    Scenario b)
    If the Attacker kills all 3 Starter Ships before any Reinforcements are deployed, the Attacker should receive the full 7 Banners for Defeated Enemies.

    (Also defeating a Capital Ship should not grant a Defeated Enemy Banner (e.g. Executor and Raddus))

    To tell you the truth scenario A doesn't seem to be handled in the best way for how ships work...
    Those banners for unused slots should be given only when the Attacker has cleared the entire fleet, not if they just join the battle and lose without defeating any ships.
    I can think of at least 2 situations:
    1)Setting a low-star Executor on defense will punish you even if it should be one of the strongest fleets and not be able to be defeated without the right composition/strategy.
    2)Setting an undermanned capital ship in order to better control the order in which the reinforcements are called

    Maybe I am missing something or my thought of process is not the best, feel free to contradict me.
  • A: Players facing empty Defenses will receive full credit for Defense or Zone. Not setting a Defense is a pretty surefire way to lose and after a while you'll be dropping Leagues and Divisions which means worse and worse rewards. -Jay

    Can we get clarification on full credit, does that include the 5 for defeating units? Otherwise it still can be exploited.
  • Ultra wrote: »
    Another benefit of GAC is that you don't have to do all your attacks in one sitting, you have 24 hours to attack whenever

    Speaking of this. Would be really nice of CG removed the ability to see your opponent's attacks until the round is over. Now that GAC is so important and matches will be more even, the gains from going second are too great to ignore, IMO.
    Going first almost all the time...
    xer3ocq3pfte.png
  • RTS
    657 posts Member
    ssj4tim wrote: »
    A: Players facing empty Defenses will receive full credit for Defense or Zone. Not setting a Defense is a pretty surefire way to lose and after a while you'll be dropping Leagues and Divisions which means worse and worse rewards. -Jay

    Can we get clarification on full credit, does that include the 5 for defeating units? Otherwise it still can be exploited.

    It has been clarified - yes, unfilled slots etc will count as defeated (including for fleets)
  • Monel
    2722 posts Member
    xGriiMErZ wrote: »
    Breezy91 wrote: »
    The wording on QGJ Omi has been bugging me. As it stands it literally means the team is unkillable without a GL. Since it says "jedi allies can't be defeated while QGJ is active" and we know from previous statements that you're considered an ally of yourself. I don't think this is how it's intended to work but it's what it literally says currently.
    We are keeping this Q&A to GAC related questions today but since I'm here, it means all other Jedi allies

    This is a GAC question, as the ability is related to GAC, are you people that dence?

    ab6gorymxur7.jpg
  • Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    Another benefit of GAC is that you don't have to do all your attacks in one sitting, you have 24 hours to attack whenever

    Speaking of this. Would be really nice of CG removed the ability to see your opponent's attacks until the round is over. Now that GAC is so important and matches will be more even, the gains from going second are too great to ignore, IMO.
    Going first almost all the time...
    xer3ocq3pfte.png

    I also go first the vast majority of the time. I also have a top 10 finish and a 1M+ lifetime score. These facts are not dispositive of the advantage of going 2nd.
  • ssj4tim
    131 posts Member
    edited December 2021
    RTS wrote: »
    ssj4tim wrote: »
    A: Players facing empty Defenses will receive full credit for Defense or Zone. Not setting a Defense is a pretty surefire way to lose and after a while you'll be dropping Leagues and Divisions which means worse and worse rewards. -Jay

    Can we get clarification on full credit, does that include the 5 for defeating units? Otherwise it still can be exploited.

    It has been clarified - yes, unfilled slots etc will count as defeated (including for fleets)

    That's not the question, I realize they count as a defeated zone. But on offense you get 1 banner for defeated enemy, so 5 total for a win from that. If there are no characters to defeat, do you still get those 5 banners? That isn't considered a zone clear or anything, that is a bonus from the combat itself similar to an unused slot. Onto of that, is there something in place to stop me from putting just 1 character on defense? That would limit the person to 4 less total banners than against a full squad. As it stands if you defeat a 5 man squad with full health protection on the first go you get 70 banners, but if there's only 1 enemy to defeat according to the scoring you'd get 64. Can I put just my Jedi Master Luke on defense alone to limit my opponent to 64 banners possible? If the zone is empty do you get 65 for a clear or does it still give you 70? Or how do they make that distinction?

    I'd like to know how many banners total you get for the zones, because if you do it short handed you could get more. If you run a 4 man team and again full health and prot and defeat 5 enemies you get 72 banners. What if someone doesn't set defense so the opponent is forced to only 70 per node and then they run short handed just once for am extra 2 points to win? Just saying "counts for a clear" doesn't really clarify how it is going to stop people from exploiting the system to get cheap wins.
  • Ultra wrote: »
    If CG is considering auto-joining, then autoset defense should set the weakest GP toons of a roster instead of top GP imo

    And disable attacks for the offending autosetter.
  • Wed_Santa wrote: »
    it’s a pragmatic time management choice.

    I knew ‘my dog ate my homework’, but this one is new. Fancy.

  • Bah, my question didn't come up.

    How does the banner per defeated enemy system work for fleets?

    Do you only get a banner for ships that actually made it on the field and got defeated? Or does winning get you points as if you killed all the reinforcements?

    What if the reinforcement are not full? Does that have an effect on the score? Would setting a fleet with only 2 reinforcements be giving my opponent 2 points for free? Or denying my opponent the opportunity to score 2 points?

    What about a 4 to 6 star capital ship? Will it be a tactic to use a 4 star capital ship because my opponent can't get as many points because I'm not allowed to put in as many ships? Or will it hurt me, because I give them 1-3 points automatically?

    I've had plenty of GAC matches that came down to 3 or less points. This is important to know.
    From CG_Jay:
    For Fleet, unsummoned reinforcements and unused reinforcement slot (due to low-star capital ships or otherwise) still grant the defeated enemy flag.

    As an example, consider the following:
    Defense Setup:
    Capital Ship
    - 6* Home One
    Starter Ships
    - Biggs X-Wing
    - HMF
    - Ghost
    Reinforcements
    - Phantom
    - Wedge X-Wing
    - <Unfilled Reinforcement>
    - <Unavailable Reinforcement>

    Scenario a)
    If the Attacker joins the battle and loses outright without destroying any defending ships, they should receive 2 banners for the missing Reinforcements. 1 Banner for each unused slot (1 for low cap ship stars slot, 1 for the unfilled slot)

    Scenario b)
    If the Attacker kills all 3 Starter Ships before any Reinforcements are deployed, the Attacker should receive the full 7 Banners for Defeated Enemies.

    (Also defeating a Capital Ship should not grant a Defeated Enemy Banner (e.g. Executor and Raddus))

    This is terrible. I often set a Malevolence defense lineup with only Vulture Droid as reinforcement. Or Negotiator with fewer than four reinforcements to control when Plo will come out. Or just wave 3 reinforcements because there aren’t enough ships to fill all cap ships and I want to save some in case I need a desperation clean up team and because rarely does a fourth reinforcement mean anything—battle is over by the time it gets to that point usually. If this is how it is going to work, we need a better way to control reinforcement order and/or more ships to fill out fleets.
  • CaesarAM wrote: »
    This is terrible. I often set a Malevolence defense lineup with only Vulture Droid as reinforcement. Or Negotiator with fewer than four reinforcements to control when Plo will come out. Or just wave 3 reinforcements because there aren’t enough ships to fill all cap ships and I want to save some in case I need a desperation clean up team and because rarely does a fourth reinforcement mean anything—battle is over by the time it gets to that point usually. If this is how it is going to work, we need a better way to control reinforcement order and/or more ships to fill out fleets.

    Just throw in one of the 1* lvl 1 ships you never bothered with?
  • Gifafi
    5899 posts Member
    edited December 2021
    “As Squad Arena aged, new "shards" have become dominated by a few multi-million GP Players (often within weeks), excluding the majority of New Players. It became less a "catch up" mechanism than a way to be a big fish in a small pond. The result was often two Players with identical collections competing for radically different Prizes simply based on when they installed.”

    Did you ever consider that instead of scrapping the system we have spent 6 years playing and working towards you could have just gotten rid of the ability for people to hoard until they had virtually unlimited energy etc, which would have stopped them from joining arena shards at a massive competitive advantage, which hurt all actually new players, including new whales, and which would have easily solved this problem, like I’ve been saying for years?

    Just wondering

    Edit: “when they installed” lol nope
    Maybe End Game isn't for you
  • RomjoLenew wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    If CG is considering auto-joining, then autoset defense should set the weakest GP toons of a roster instead of top GP imo

    And disable attacks for the offending autosetter.

    Galactic Legends should be fully disabled. If you auto-deploy, GL's don't show up on defense AND you can't use them for Offense. That would solve a huge amount of frustration.
  • Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    Another benefit of GAC is that you don't have to do all your attacks in one sitting, you have 24 hours to attack whenever

    Speaking of this. Would be really nice of CG removed the ability to see your opponent's attacks until the round is over. Now that GAC is so important and matches will be more even, the gains from going second are too great to ignore, IMO.
    Going first almost all the time...
    xer3ocq3pfte.png

    I also go first the vast majority of the time. I also have a top 10 finish and a 1M+ lifetime score. These facts are not dispositive of the advantage of going 2nd.
    1) Dispositive is not a real word
    2) The fact that we both won so consistently while going first does indeed undermine your argument that "the gains from going second are too great to ignore"
  • Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    Another benefit of GAC is that you don't have to do all your attacks in one sitting, you have 24 hours to attack whenever

    Speaking of this. Would be really nice of CG removed the ability to see your opponent's attacks until the round is over. Now that GAC is so important and matches will be more even, the gains from going second are too great to ignore, IMO.
    Going first almost all the time...
    xer3ocq3pfte.png

    I also go first the vast majority of the time. I also have a top 10 finish and a 1M+ lifetime score. These facts are not dispositive of the advantage of going 2nd.
    1) Dispositive is not a real word
    2) The fact that we both won so consistently while going first does indeed undermine your argument that "the gains from going second are too great to ignore"

    The vast majority of players that you go up in GAC are free wins anyway. And in the matches against skillful players that I had (at the likes of FCValentin, Thysk, NightAngel, etc.) they at least tried to go in second/as late as possible.
    Going second is an advantage and should be adressed.
    Legend#6873 | YouTube | swgoh.gg
  • CaesarAM wrote: »
    This is terrible. I often set a Malevolence defense lineup with only Vulture Droid as reinforcement. Or Negotiator with fewer than four reinforcements to control when Plo will come out. Or just wave 3 reinforcements because there aren’t enough ships to fill all cap ships and I want to save some in case I need a desperation clean up team and because rarely does a fourth reinforcement mean anything—battle is over by the time it gets to that point usually. If this is how it is going to work, we need a better way to control reinforcement order and/or more ships to fill out fleets.

    Just throw in one of the 1* lvl 1 ships you never bothered with?

    And if u do knowing the Ai it will call tht level 1 1* ship in as first reinforcement. Like executor for example u have 2 bh ships as reinforcements after ur main 3,so u throw two 1* level 1 ships in as last reinforcements, wht stops the game from calling those in cuz it thinks u need a attacker or maybe a tank and one those fills tht requirement, well then ur def team is more than likely not gonna hold were if u did the smart thing an only filled it with the two bh’s ud have much better shot a hold.
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