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Investigate other GLs too - they can undersize

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papaofmom
papaofmom
159 posts Member
While Im suprise that you want to investigate SLKR vs LV situation I can only ask you to be consistent.

SEE can undersize Rey and JML
SLKR can also undersize SEE
JMK can undersize SEE and others too
Rey probably can undersize some other teams w CAT too

Be consistent at your investigations.

Replies

  • RoopeRenegade
    RoopeRenegade
    125 posts Member
    Exactly.

    SEE + 1 can defeat other GLs too.
    That +1 also doesn't have to be Sith, so if CG is worried about the crossfaction there, they should change SEE's crossfaction undersize here too.
  • Itsa_me_Malario
    Itsa_me_Malario
    1149 posts Member
    SlKR can solo SEE not undersize it. 😆
    LV can get destroyed by imp troopers with a cleans from shaakti.
    SEE basically is a 3 man team only needs armorer and wat.
  • flux_rono
    flux_rono
    2024 posts Member
    i dont have much experience in these fights, but I'm assuming there key term of "constantly" has something to do with my SLKR is being looked into and not the others pointed out.

    for example SEE can undersize Rey but if she has a lot of offense that could fail. and for SEE beating JML I imagine is more of an expected one since he is meant to counter jedi
  • Sithlords_Inc
    Sithlords_Inc
    384 posts Member
    If they're going to fix SEE undermaning Rey and JML they would have to rework his entire kit. The reason people underman with him is because any teammates under him that isnt armorer/wat are dead weight that will only lose you banners. I for one wouldnt mind if they gave him some actual synergy with sith allies that prevented them from being absolute fodder under his lead. His link mechanics are also the reason he gets solod by SLKR and Rey+Wat. Sadly I dont see CG putting anywhere near that amount of resources on SEE.
  • MF6076
    MF6076
    39 posts Member
    xGriiMErZ wrote: »
    What you're missing if the fact that LV is the newest and the only one they care about protecting, the rest do not matter.

    Do you really think they care about SLKR soloing SEE?

    With that logic they would have fixed SLKR solo vs SEE when SEE was released
  • Artumas
    Artumas
    324 posts Member
    papaofmom wrote: »
    While Im suprise that you want to investigate SLKR vs LV situation I can only ask you to be consistent.

    SEE can undersize Rey and JML
    SLKR can also undersize SEE
    JMK can undersize SEE and others too
    Rey probably can undersize some other teams w CAT too

    Be consistent at your investigations.

    Rey + Wat can practically duo any non-meta JML setup. Sure, Wat dies, but...
    And the team can easily full auto literally any JML lead team if you throw extra targets on the team so Rey ramps up to killing power.

    Rey can easily undersize any non-CAT JMK team in existence w/ CAT.

    Rey with the right lineup can undersize by 1 non-maul LV teams.

    Rey can 3-man SLKR these days due to his horrendous AI. It's generally not 100% consistent, but it's consistent enough to matter IMHO.

    On defense Padme + CAT can beat a player-controlled SLKR team.

    I honestly don't think the SLKR vs LV thing is at all a major issue. Everyone knows that LV isn't exactly worth the investment compared with literally every other GL, and when comparing their kits, SLKR kind of IS the "intended hard counter" mechanics-wise Tanky stall-oriented teams are countered by the massive ramp-up damage team. That's just how those interactions tend to work in any game. And the SLKR/Zombie synergy has been known for a LONG time now, and LV wasn't given good enough taunt circumvention to get around it. (Maul's taunt circumvention is only active when he's at max anguish - meaning one attack and it's back to zombie, and LV himself doesn't seem to even HAVE taunt circumvention capabilities anywhere in his kit unless I'm just derping and totally missing it.)

    I think it's an easy enough fix by just giving LV some kind of decent taunt circumvention - even just something like DSUFUs under LV's lead ignore taunt against dark side enemies. - But I really just don't think it's actually something that needs to be addressed. LV generally sucks on defense in the brackets where people are actually going to be seeing him regularly. It's the same reason the SEE issues are fine - Again, no one should really ever be putting him on defense.
  • xGriiMErZ
    xGriiMErZ
    766 posts Member
    MF6076 wrote: »
    xGriiMErZ wrote: »
    What you're missing if the fact that LV is the newest and the only one they care about protecting, the rest do not matter.

    Do you really think they care about SLKR soloing SEE?

    With that logic they would have fixed SLKR solo vs SEE when SEE was released

    Both SEE and JML had been tossed aside as soon as they were released
  • Vos_Landeck
    Vos_Landeck
    1666 posts Member
    edited January 2022
    xGriiMErZ wrote: »
    What you're missing if the fact that LV is the newest and the only one they care about protecting, the rest do not matter.

    But they are okay with Troopers + Shaak beating LV? At least the SLKR/NS counter requires a GL.
  • Legend91
    Legend91
    2380 posts Member
    Vos_Landeck wrote: »
    xGriiMErZ wrote: »
    What you're missing if the fact that LV is the newest and the only one they care about protecting, the rest do not matter.

    But they are okay with Troopers + Shaak beating LV? At least the SLKR/NS counter requires a GL.

    It's not like there are easy ways to stop it...
    Legend#6873 | YouTube | swgoh.gg
  • pånøs
    pånøs
    152 posts Member
    And new Iden lady is killing R9 LV+Maul under veers lead.
    Good testing as usual. ZERO! Well done!
  • pånøs
    pånøs
    152 posts Member
    CG_Doja_Fett_MINI wrote: »
    It's not simply about the squad being undersized. GLs can (and should be able) to beat other GLs. It's more so that a GL + Conquest character is the current pinnacle, and they should not be defeated by a GL in a much weaker squad.

    Thanks for chipping in, are we then expecting to see changes that prevent Iden Versio as well?
  • rocket1420
    rocket1420
    15 posts Member
    Legend91 wrote: »
    Vos_Landeck wrote: »
    xGriiMErZ wrote: »
    What you're missing if the fact that LV is the newest and the only one they care about protecting, the rest do not matter.

    But they are okay with Troopers + Shaak beating LV? At least the SLKR/NS counter requires a GL.

    It's not like there are easy ways to stop it...

    "Opponents can't gain bonus turn meter." Fixed
  • Gale_Toral
    Gale_Toral
    119 posts Member
    When the counter was first made public, I talked about another easy fix to Shaak Ti being a change to her cleanse to only affect Jedi and Galactic Republic allies. As far as I'm aware, this shouldn't affect 99% of the teams she's used in.

    I think we have to remember that GLs are designed in a very specific way, and that boosts to their kit might negatively impact future releases.

    Regarding the SLKR Nightsister issue. Zombie should only revive if the leader is a Nightsister. No change to SLKR that way.
  • CG_Doja_Fett_MINI
    CG_Doja_Fett_MINI
    520 posts EA Community Manager
    SinisterSandman wrote: »
    CG_Doja_Fett_MINI wrote: »
    It's not simply about the squad being undersized. GLs can (and should be able) to beat other GLs. It's more so that a GL + Conquest character is the current pinnacle, and they should not be defeated by a GL in a much weaker squad.

    As long as it's still a GL for a GL whh does it matter about the squad that surrounds each? GL Palp and Wat have been a thing for far longer. Synergy and strategy should always trump GP.

    I think the distinguishing factor is the inclusion of a Conquest unit paired with the GL. Those two units together represent the pinnacle.
  • CG_Doja_Fett_MINI
    CG_Doja_Fett_MINI
    520 posts EA Community Manager
    pånøs wrote: »
    CG_Doja_Fett_MINI wrote: »
    It's not simply about the squad being undersized. GLs can (and should be able) to beat other GLs. It's more so that a GL + Conquest character is the current pinnacle, and they should not be defeated by a GL in a much weaker squad.

    Thanks for chipping in, are we then expecting to see changes that prevent Iden Versio as well?

    Haven't heard anything from dev side regarding Iden. If I do, I'll be sure to let ya know.
  • CG_Doja_Fett_MINI
    CG_Doja_Fett_MINI
    520 posts EA Community Manager
    SquiffyChad wrote: »
    Which I understand, I do, but can we not buff LV more instead of nerfing other teams?

    We don't like to make changes to kits post-launch if we can avoid it. So, it's not done lightly...which means I'm sure all options were considered.
  • HanSolonoid
    HanSolonoid
    75 posts Member
    edited January 2022
    CG_Doja_Fett_MINI wrote: »
    pånøs wrote: »
    CG_Doja_Fett_MINI wrote: »
    It's not simply about the squad being undersized. GLs can (and should be able) to beat other GLs. It's more so that a GL + Conquest character is the current pinnacle, and they should not be defeated by a GL in a much weaker squad.

    Thanks for chipping in, are we then expecting to see changes that prevent Iden Versio as well?

    Haven't heard anything from dev side regarding Iden. If I do, I'll be sure to let ya know.

    With the trooper teams that had a sketchy LV clear, take Shaak Ti out and it’s an easy clear.

    Troopers can’t beat the full LV Maul team without them taking a single turn.
  • Ultra
    Ultra
    10881 posts Moderator
    pånøs wrote: »
    CG_Doja_Fett_MINI wrote: »
    It's not simply about the squad being undersized. GLs can (and should be able) to beat other GLs. It's more so that a GL + Conquest character is the current pinnacle, and they should not be defeated by a GL in a much weaker squad.

    Thanks for chipping in, are we then expecting to see changes that prevent Iden Versio as well?

    Afaik that team only works without piett so it’s not the most ideal LV team
  • HanSolonoid
    HanSolonoid
    75 posts Member
    Veers Piett DT Range and Iden deletes

    LV Maul Storm Tooper Royal Guard Vader

    Without them taking a turn. A non GL taking out a GL without the GL taking a turn
  • rocket1420
    rocket1420
    15 posts Member
    HanSolonoid wrote: »
    CG_Doja_Fett_MINI wrote: »
    pånøs wrote: »
    CG_Doja_Fett_MINI wrote: »
    It's not simply about the squad being undersized. GLs can (and should be able) to beat other GLs. It's more so that a GL + Conquest character is the current pinnacle, and they should not be defeated by a GL in a much weaker squad.

    Thanks for chipping in, are we then expecting to see changes that prevent Iden Versio as well?

    Haven't heard anything from dev side regarding Iden. If I do, I'll be sure to let ya know.

    With the trooper teams that had a sketchy LV clear, take Shaak Ti out and it’s an easy clear.

    Troopers can’t beat the full LV Maul team without them taking a single turn.

    Ahnaldt101 doesn't exist in their world.
  • Ryanh1315
    Ryanh1315
    116 posts Member
    HanSolonoid wrote: »
    You know what guys. Don’t screw with Iden. Don’t screw with Kylo. Buff LV. It’s obvious you want him great, and he isn’t, so buff him. Stop changing everything else to suit him. You nerfed Wat, Luke, Thrawn, and Gas all for him. Just so his one thing, his high health, wouldn’t be shredded through. You built an all tanky type team; that wouldn’t work, changed everything that would really mess with the tanky-ness, it didn’t work.

    Stop reinventing every toon in this game to fix Lord Vader. Fix Lord Vader. Jesus wept.

    Agreed. Lord Vader requires critical units from far too many teams to even be able to contend at the echelon of power that JMK/CAT have, and he's still not worth the investment. I don't even think we're in buff territory anymore, I think he honestly needs a full rework (hopefully with better animations).
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