I checked in so I could get an answer for those who are asking about a refund.
We return resources for a character if we fundamentally change their identity. This change did not hit that bar.
If that's the case, they need to change how changes measure up to the bar. This is one of the most dramatic kit nerfs in the game if you compare the damage squad members were doing post-QGJ-death before the change to now.
And they also told you they were going to change the ability. That sucks, but I knew what I was getting when I applied that omicron.
Well, rather, I didn't know. But that's exactly the point.
After I applied the omicron to him. They also played it off as a bug when there wasn’t a bug at all but that they failed to test how the bonus offense calculates and applies.
Had it actually been a bug where it wasn’t giving 400% but say 2000% then ok. That’s a bug. It needs a fix. Exactly as they portrayed it.
What actually happened was totally different and the changes they made to the ability fundamentally changed it by slashing the boost by half and making it totally void with any GL’s in play.
It's like CG deliberately likes **** of their players.
People have to get it through their head that CG doesn’t care about players. They are a free mobile game developer, they intentionally design and treat their game to frustrate the players to encourage them to spend money. They push it farther than most mobile games because people like Star Wars. CG knows people will pay for Star Wars and they take full advantage of that and treat the players as poorly as they can get away with. They literally profit off the suffering of the people who play their game, why do so many people think they can plead with them to care about the players?
The system is called Disrupt. It was coined by a dev in Heroes of Dragon Age. They went from 1000's in damage to literally millions. Each new "Special" Hero is designed to break the meta. Then they release one to break the new meta, rinse and repeat. They create a problem, and sell the solution. It was said privately this was the only way these games are profitable. Now mistakenly create a freely attainable team that defeats the shiny new hero with go faster stripes, and the result is no profit. Remember to save some of this surprise and anger for when SLKR is ruined... err "adjusted".
Just another day in EA land.. nothing new to see lol
I don't mind if qgj doesn't work against a gl team. it was kind of obvious that cg didn't test it thoroughly against gl.
cutting the damage boost by 50% is a no go.
the offense boost was not a bug, just poorly overlooked from cg that too much damage with ani can take out a gl.
I expect qgj to be pretty useless if he can't take out a team with some tanky characters in it.
I don't need him for some mediocre teams to get bad banners.
we will see how qgj will perform, but if he doesn't perform the way he was against non gl teams it is a disgusting move to not refund the omicrons
I went over this change in a video on my channel before Doja had posted the CG response (link: https://youtu.be/ey86euEFt50) that addresses these changes and why I feel like we are due a refund.
The heart of it is this:
1) We were told that he was "passing too much offence", with a statement to say that the original intention was only to pass QGJ's offence without the modifier from the omicron applied. This is not how the omicron is worded. These distinctions are important when players make the decision to apply the omicron.
2) The omicron was changed to state that only other Jedi allies gain 30x their speed to offence. QGJ has completely lost this additional offence from himself. It's a direct nerf, but I wouldn't call it a massively impactful one, as the damage is predominantly coming from JKA's nuke ability afterwards. It is still, however, a fundamental change to his leadership and different from when players applied rare and hard to acquire materials. Whilst I still feel like the omicron is definitely a strong and viable one, this still warrants a refund in case players are unhappy.
3) A second direct nerf to remove all viability if any GLs exist on the board. I'm less bothered by this personally, but this is not a bug, this is a direct nerf that was not stipulated in the description, nor reported as a "bug" by CG ahead of time. Further supports a refund of the ability.
I still think this omicron is worthwhile and would immediately reapply it myself, but CG really should reconsider their stance that these changes "do not fundamentally change the identity" of this particular ability. We aren't asking for gear refunds, just the ability materials used to apply the leadership.
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I checked in so I could get an answer for those who are asking about a refund.
We return resources for a character if we fundamentally change their identity. This change did not hit that bar.
This nerf is on par with the Darth Vader nerf. You reduced damage considerably and made it so he is not effective against GLs. Where is the consistency? This change made a big investment useless and made it so that the character doesn't even benefit from his own leader ability anymore.
"why would it not be easier to refund the materials and allow the players to decide whether the identity of the ability is essentially the same or not?"
has been conveyed repeatedly to the developer team
I think its a pretty solid point, if the ability is no different than just refund and let the players decide if they still want the ability
I'll reopen but this argument won't make a difference
There are big differences now though. Two very big differences.
1.) A reduction in 50%+ of the offense QGJ was originally granting allies on his death.
2.) No longer works at all with any GL’s on the field.
Yes, the change of the offense boost times speed when a GL is present on the kit was talked about
And they also told you they were going to change the ability. That sucks, but I knew what I was getting when I applied that omicron.
Except they changed more than what they said they were going to change. Previously, this is what they announced: "We are aware of an issue with Qui-Gon Jinn in Grand Arena where his Omicron upgrade is providing more Offense than intended. Currently when Qui-Gon Jinn is defeated, he is providing Jedi allies with excessive Offense on top of the 400% Offense boost based on his stats he is supposed to provide." That's all about the offensive boost after he dies. Now, nobody even gets the base offense boost from his lead to start the battle if there is a GL present. So, nobody could have been expecting THAT change since they never indicated they was an issue with the pre-death offensive boost from the lead.
Given the overzealous closing of threads that didn’t allow the question to be asked where it made more sense, I’ll pose it on its own -
Can we have some clarification on what sorts of changes/nerfs we can expect refunds for versus changes we shouldn’t?
There seems to be a lack of consistency, at least to me, even among some of the most recent changes, that makes it tough to understand and rationalize.
Posted this as it’s own thread and it was merged, want to make sure it doesn’t get lost in the shuffle because I’m looking for a more holistic answer than just the QGJ boondoggle @CG_Doja_Fett_MINI
I don’t really understand the argument against refunding it. It was changed, and pretty significantly. I don’t see the point in some arbitrary bar/rule that never existed before being applied here.
That reluctance would make sense in a situation where a character and the ability in question had been around for a long time and it’s usefulness was already waning. In that case, I could see the argument that players could be trying to take advantage by re-using those ability mats elsewhere.
That’s not the case here. Omi’s are pretty new and there aren’t a bunch of new ones overshadowing it.
so it didn't change the leadership fundamentally?
ok, then just undo your changes to to the leadership.
everyone with the omicron will be happy.
if not: give the omicrons back and let the players decide, if they want to use it on the leadership again.
I’m sure in a week or so, after the new boba is unlocked and people have had to buy more omicron’s, that we’ll get a message saying “We’ve listened to your feedback and decided that on this occasion we will refund the omicron’s on QGJ. What a considerate and generous development team we are.”
Don't worry and take care of your nerves, guys. CG-developers don't care about our opinion, they only care about profit. When they start losing money, then they will realize that they are moving in the wrong direction. I saw one game where the developers doubled the cost of the battle pass and did not add anything significant. The community is not stupid and stoped buying the battle pass. A month later, the cost returned to the previous level.
Like a great leader once said “it is what it is”
CG/EA did the calculations and made the conclusion that more players will spend money on the game if they lose 20 omicrons on something they wouldn’t spend it on I they know what to come.
Of course you might say it’s a really bad way to treat a community and a customer base, but just like the big nerf they just don’t care.
This is their way.
It a fun game and a great community, but the guys in CG are in many aspects enemies to the player base.
A fairly unique business plan, but hey it seems to work.
I checked in so I could get an answer for those who are asking about a refund.
We return resources for a character if we fundamentally change their identity. This change did not hit that bar.
I must respectfully disagree with your reasoning Doja. We're not talking about QGJ's identity. We are talking about the functionality of QGJ's omicron. Omicron mats are the most scarce resource in this game right now. When I looked at QGJ's omicron ability. I saw great value in that ability, enough to spend a VERY valuable resource to obtain that ability. Now your company (CG) has decided to diminish the value of that omicron ability AFTER I purchased it and I get NO choice in the matter?
This is wrong and unacceptable. It discredits our faith that CG won't do something like this, or worse, again. This is the crap CG would pull on us before you came on-board and their PR suffered greatly during that time. It has become much better since you have arrived. We need you to go to bat for us and help us out...
How to resolve this? It's SO easy. Give us back our Omicron mats and allow the players to reevaluate the value of QGJ's omicron. This is a NO BRAINER. Listen to the players and let us decide what is best.
"why would it not be easier to refund the materials and allow the players to decide whether the identity of the ability is essentially the same or not?"
has been conveyed repeatedly to the developer team
I think its a pretty solid point, if the ability is no different than just refund and let the players decide if they still want the ability
I'll reopen but this argument won't make a difference
There are big differences now though. Two very big differences.
1.) A reduction in 50%+ of the offense QGJ was originally granting allies on his death.
2.) No longer works at all with any GL’s on the field.
Yes, the change of the offense boost times speed when a GL is present on the kit was talked about
Nobody is being refunded, still
And people will continue to complain and be up in arms until they are refunded their materials. CG has refunded materials for far less changes and the reasoning they gave is nonsense. Not to mention the changes they mentioned were incoming had nothing to do with the GL interaction.
I’m sure in a week or so, after the new boba is unlocked and people have had to buy more omicron’s, that we’ll get a message saying “We’ve listened to your feedback and decided that on this occasion we will refund the omicron’s on QGJ. What a considerate and generous development team we are.”
Cake eaten in their eyes.
I have a feeling this is what's going to happen. It makes too much sense. If people have the extra omicron mats refunded now, they'll hold on to them and save it for Dad-bod Boba and won't buy extra omicrons at the store. But in a couple weeks after the whales buy enough omicron mats there will be a magical "change of heart" and QGJ omicron refunds will occur... If the refunds happen now I'll be pleasantly shocked... lol.
I checked in so I could get an answer for those who are asking about a refund.
We return resources for a character if we fundamentally change their identity. This change did not hit that bar.
I fundamentally disagree with this perspective. The product that I purchased was changed in such a way that it is no longer is representative of what I bought. My purchase should be refunded so that I can have a chance to review the modified product and decide if it is something I want to purchase again.
Can't they grab his offense before the match starts (if needed, use a simple equation to remove the bonus offense) and then use that number when he dies? Seems like basic coding.
Then you would lose out on bonuses from KAM unique and other abilities that increase his offense
If that is the intended outcome than simply note his speed at the beginning of battle and remove 30x before applying his offense to his team.
I checked in so I could get an answer for those who are asking about a refund.
We return resources for a character if we fundamentally change their identity. This change did not hit that bar.
I completely disagree that the character did not fundamentally change. It was a huge change to what was sold to us. Omicrons were explicitly stated to bring characters up to GL level in their specific game modes which this previously did, and now it clearly no longer works at that level.
With that said, we deserve more info on what would or wouldn’t be considered a “fundamental change” by capital games so we can make more informed decisions on our spending of resources in the future.
I checked in so I could get an answer for those who are asking about a refund.
We return resources for a character if we fundamentally change their identity. This change did not hit that bar.
First of all thanks for caring and asking.
But instead of this answer, which is completely untrue in terms of handling similar matters in the past (Old Daka, OG Finn) you should have better gone and go down Ignore Alley like CG uses to do whenever there are major uprisings in the community.
Why? Because you (not personally, ofc) would only be the usual ignorants we all know and love (and hate). We as a community would only feel ignored and unimportant as usual. We are used to live with that feeling.
But your answer implies, that you (not personal again) think we are either dumb as a brick or at least as forgetful as an Alzheimers patient.
We got refunds in the past for less fundamental (OG Finn) or even no change to that specific character (Old Daka) at all. Please dont think we are stupid or forget that easily.
With that being said please go to whoever is in charge of that decision and ask him to overthink the decision and leave the (re-)spending of at least the Omicrons to the players.
It would be a great token of appreciation to all of the community and it even doesn’t cost you anything but a little rollback.
Again appreciate your work for us. I at least have a feeling of being heard by you (personally this time). So thanks for that.
Replies
If that's the case, they need to change how changes measure up to the bar. This is one of the most dramatic kit nerfs in the game if you compare the damage squad members were doing post-QGJ-death before the change to now.
After I applied the omicron to him. They also played it off as a bug when there wasn’t a bug at all but that they failed to test how the bonus offense calculates and applies.
Had it actually been a bug where it wasn’t giving 400% but say 2000% then ok. That’s a bug. It needs a fix. Exactly as they portrayed it.
What actually happened was totally different and the changes they made to the ability fundamentally changed it by slashing the boost by half and making it totally void with any GL’s in play.
The system is called Disrupt. It was coined by a dev in Heroes of Dragon Age. They went from 1000's in damage to literally millions. Each new "Special" Hero is designed to break the meta. Then they release one to break the new meta, rinse and repeat. They create a problem, and sell the solution. It was said privately this was the only way these games are profitable. Now mistakenly create a freely attainable team that defeats the shiny new hero with go faster stripes, and the result is no profit. Remember to save some of this surprise and anger for when SLKR is ruined... err "adjusted".
Just another day in EA land.. nothing new to see lol
cutting the damage boost by 50% is a no go.
the offense boost was not a bug, just poorly overlooked from cg that too much damage with ani can take out a gl.
I expect qgj to be pretty useless if he can't take out a team with some tanky characters in it.
I don't need him for some mediocre teams to get bad banners.
we will see how qgj will perform, but if he doesn't perform the way he was against non gl teams it is a disgusting move to not refund the omicrons
April fools day isn’t for another few months.
The heart of it is this:
1) We were told that he was "passing too much offence", with a statement to say that the original intention was only to pass QGJ's offence without the modifier from the omicron applied. This is not how the omicron is worded. These distinctions are important when players make the decision to apply the omicron.
2) The omicron was changed to state that only other Jedi allies gain 30x their speed to offence. QGJ has completely lost this additional offence from himself. It's a direct nerf, but I wouldn't call it a massively impactful one, as the damage is predominantly coming from JKA's nuke ability afterwards. It is still, however, a fundamental change to his leadership and different from when players applied rare and hard to acquire materials. Whilst I still feel like the omicron is definitely a strong and viable one, this still warrants a refund in case players are unhappy.
3) A second direct nerf to remove all viability if any GLs exist on the board. I'm less bothered by this personally, but this is not a bug, this is a direct nerf that was not stipulated in the description, nor reported as a "bug" by CG ahead of time. Further supports a refund of the ability.
I still think this omicron is worthwhile and would immediately reapply it myself, but CG really should reconsider their stance that these changes "do not fundamentally change the identity" of this particular ability. We aren't asking for gear refunds, just the ability materials used to apply the leadership.
This nerf is on par with the Darth Vader nerf. You reduced damage considerably and made it so he is not effective against GLs. Where is the consistency? This change made a big investment useless and made it so that the character doesn't even benefit from his own leader ability anymore.
The most ridiculous statement ever.
Yes, the change of the offense boost times speed when a GL is present on the kit was talked about
Nobody is being refunded, still
Except they changed more than what they said they were going to change. Previously, this is what they announced: "We are aware of an issue with Qui-Gon Jinn in Grand Arena where his Omicron upgrade is providing more Offense than intended. Currently when Qui-Gon Jinn is defeated, he is providing Jedi allies with excessive Offense on top of the 400% Offense boost based on his stats he is supposed to provide." That's all about the offensive boost after he dies. Now, nobody even gets the base offense boost from his lead to start the battle if there is a GL present. So, nobody could have been expecting THAT change since they never indicated they was an issue with the pre-death offensive boost from the lead.
More like, anyone who unsuccessfully used a GL vs. omi QGJ should have their skill rating reduced, lol.
Myself and the community disagree.
Can you please elaborate as to the reasons CG has provided you with that indicates his omi abilty is fundamentally the same as before.
If originally written as it now reads I would not have applied zeta and omicron.
Refund costs CG very little as zetas and omicrons will be applied elsewhere.
Refund gains goodwill for CG.
Seems pretty simple.
I had been whaling for a while, but have paused spending based on recent interactions
Posted this as it’s own thread and it was merged, want to make sure it doesn’t get lost in the shuffle because I’m looking for a more holistic answer than just the QGJ boondoggle @CG_Doja_Fett_MINI
That reluctance would make sense in a situation where a character and the ability in question had been around for a long time and it’s usefulness was already waning. In that case, I could see the argument that players could be trying to take advantage by re-using those ability mats elsewhere.
That’s not the case here. Omi’s are pretty new and there aren’t a bunch of new ones overshadowing it.
ok, then just undo your changes to to the leadership.
everyone with the omicron will be happy.
if not: give the omicrons back and let the players decide, if they want to use it on the leadership again.
Cake eaten in their eyes.
CG/EA did the calculations and made the conclusion that more players will spend money on the game if they lose 20 omicrons on something they wouldn’t spend it on I they know what to come.
Of course you might say it’s a really bad way to treat a community and a customer base, but just like the big nerf they just don’t care.
This is their way.
It a fun game and a great community, but the guys in CG are in many aspects enemies to the player base.
A fairly unique business plan, but hey it seems to work.
I must respectfully disagree with your reasoning Doja. We're not talking about QGJ's identity. We are talking about the functionality of QGJ's omicron. Omicron mats are the most scarce resource in this game right now. When I looked at QGJ's omicron ability. I saw great value in that ability, enough to spend a VERY valuable resource to obtain that ability. Now your company (CG) has decided to diminish the value of that omicron ability AFTER I purchased it and I get NO choice in the matter?
This is wrong and unacceptable. It discredits our faith that CG won't do something like this, or worse, again. This is the crap CG would pull on us before you came on-board and their PR suffered greatly during that time. It has become much better since you have arrived. We need you to go to bat for us and help us out...
How to resolve this? It's SO easy. Give us back our Omicron mats and allow the players to reevaluate the value of QGJ's omicron. This is a NO BRAINER. Listen to the players and let us decide what is best.
How about listening to your customers and understanding the value of providing good customer service?
Why do you insist on treating us like we are in an abusive relationship? Is it because you think we won’t leave you? Typical abusive mindset.
And people will continue to complain and be up in arms until they are refunded their materials. CG has refunded materials for far less changes and the reasoning they gave is nonsense. Not to mention the changes they mentioned were incoming had nothing to do with the GL interaction.
I have a feeling this is what's going to happen. It makes too much sense. If people have the extra omicron mats refunded now, they'll hold on to them and save it for Dad-bod Boba and won't buy extra omicrons at the store. But in a couple weeks after the whales buy enough omicron mats there will be a magical "change of heart" and QGJ omicron refunds will occur... If the refunds happen now I'll be pleasantly shocked... lol.
I fundamentally disagree with this perspective. The product that I purchased was changed in such a way that it is no longer is representative of what I bought. My purchase should be refunded so that I can have a chance to review the modified product and decide if it is something I want to purchase again.
Its a long weekend
Hopefully, when they are back in office, they reconsider their decision
If that is the intended outcome than simply note his speed at the beginning of battle and remove 30x before applying his offense to his team.
Lol I can't imagine how someone who was ever in an *actual* abusive relationship would feel if they read this.
Terrible comparison. But not surprising.
They just got back...how about showing up for a few days?
On a Saturday?
I completely disagree that the character did not fundamentally change. It was a huge change to what was sold to us. Omicrons were explicitly stated to bring characters up to GL level in their specific game modes which this previously did, and now it clearly no longer works at that level.
With that said, we deserve more info on what would or wouldn’t be considered a “fundamental change” by capital games so we can make more informed decisions on our spending of resources in the future.
First of all thanks for caring and asking.
But instead of this answer, which is completely untrue in terms of handling similar matters in the past (Old Daka, OG Finn) you should have better gone and go down Ignore Alley like CG uses to do whenever there are major uprisings in the community.
Why? Because you (not personally, ofc) would only be the usual ignorants we all know and love (and hate). We as a community would only feel ignored and unimportant as usual. We are used to live with that feeling.
But your answer implies, that you (not personal again) think we are either dumb as a brick or at least as forgetful as an Alzheimers patient.
We got refunds in the past for less fundamental (OG Finn) or even no change to that specific character (Old Daka) at all. Please dont think we are stupid or forget that easily.
With that being said please go to whoever is in charge of that decision and ask him to overthink the decision and leave the (re-)spending of at least the Omicrons to the players.
It would be a great token of appreciation to all of the community and it even doesn’t cost you anything but a little rollback.
Again appreciate your work for us. I at least have a feeling of being heard by you (personally this time). So thanks for that.