Grand Arena power difference is ridiculous

Replies

  • RTS wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    el_mago wrote: »
    I feel like people are fundamentally misunderstanding how the skill rating works.

    I feel like people are fundamentally misunderstanding how flawed CG’s skill system is. I get it’s still early but if people are being matched up with opponents millions of GP higher than them, something is wrong.

    No, it's not.

    This is literally how ladder systems work.

    When it’s sorted properly. If you still have people matched up millions of GP apart then something still isn’t right. That’s like saying a new player in COD should be playing a lv 50 prestige. Or in Halo, a bronze shield playing a teal shield.

    If people have intentionally lost some matches to guarantee better matchups for the next few rounds, they exploited the system to a degree.

    Also in a ladder system it’s a gradual increase. Not to mention it’s a totally different ball game with a squad collection game compared to a FPS
  • Ponf
    26 posts Member
    The matchmaking is still designed to reflect you as a player, and it does so pretty effectively. It's what you can do with your roster and mods as compared to what others can do with their rosters and mods. Believe it or not, there is a high -above-50% of players with nice rosters but horrible mods and dont know how to do GAC. The seemingly unfair matchmaking is still very much bringing down a lot of horrible players. Remember, by definition half of the population is below average.

    Does this matchmaking reflect the skill of the player? I've been playing less than one year and often meet people, who have been playing 2 or more years. Due to the fact that they play longer, they have more quantity of zetas, more time to farm modules. This is their advantage. Also there is a barier, where i will not have teams for offence/defence and lose anywere.
    Earlier, I competed for reward with players who had started playing at the same time with me. It was fair, because we start from the one point.
    How to catch up with those who started to play before me, but they are at my level of play?
  • StarSon
    6011 posts Member
    StarSon wrote: »
    Ponf wrote: »
    CG_Doja_Fett_MINI
    Hello.
    Can you explain how it works? My opponent and I have the same skill rating, but he is in chromium 3, I am in chromium 4. How is it possible? Shouldn't he be playing with players in his division? And by defeating him, I will receive a reward for chromium 4, and if he defeats me, will he receive a reward for chromium 3?

    MM is strictly by skill rating, and you cannot be matched with someone in a different league. After this week I imagine you won't be able to match against someone in another division, either.

    Have there been cross-divisional matchups? I would like a **** of that. They must be very rare, if they exist at all.

    Well, clearly there is at least this one. But I assume last time there were none, based on how they did the initial seeding. And I suspect we will rarely, if ever, see cross-divisional matchups after this week.
  • Joebo720
    385 posts Member
    edited January 20
    Bottom line is they went from a bad MM system to another bad MM system. While people point to the new skill rating at this point it is still a very arbitrary number and probably will be for a couple more months. Match ups can be bad, and will be bad for a bit. Let's just hope that it pans out like CG is hoping for, because we know they didn't test it, and it works out in a few months. I wouldn't hold my breath though.
  • Joebo720 wrote: »
    Bottom line is they went from a bad MM system to another bad MM system. While people point to the new skill rating at this point it is still a very arbitrary number and probably will be for a couple more months. Match ups can be bad, and will be bad for a bit. Let's just hope that it pans out like CG is hoping for, because we know they didn't test it, and it works out in a few months. I wouldn't hold my breath though.

    How could the new one not pan out? What is the fail condition for you?
  • StarSon
    6011 posts Member
    Joebo720 wrote: »
    Bottom line is they went from a bad MM system to another bad MM system. While people point to the new skill rating at this point it is still a very arbitrary number and probably will be for a couple more months. Match ups can be bad, and will be bad for a bit. Let's just hope that it pans out like CG is hoping for, because we know they didn't test it, and it works out in a few months. I wouldn't hold my breath though.

    They went from a bad MM system to a better MM system. Sure, maybe right now it's not great, but if there's a massive GP gap, it's because the higher GP is either bad at GA, or rarely tries, which makes it a better matchup than the old method.
  • How could the new one not pan out? What is the fail condition for you?


    By making the skill rating numbers too small with not enough gap to really sort accounts out. AS you squish people from the top it becomes a cascading effect. Probably should have had a higher top number to let people settle in a sweet spot sooner.
  • Joebo720 wrote: »
    How could the new one not pan out? What is the fail condition for you?


    By making the skill rating numbers too small with not enough gap to really sort accounts out. AS you squish people from the top it becomes a cascading effect. Probably should have had a higher top number to let people settle in a sweet spot sooner.

    There do seem to be some reported irregularities with the squish. I won't argue that if they over-squish, there will be issues.
  • im sitting at 3272 rating and I will face anyone with the rating of 3310 to 3610.
    I'm pretty sure at the moment and for the foreseeable future, you'll be matched up with people with the exact same SR as you: 3272. You might want to check your bracket. All 8 players in mine are the exact same SR.
  • Ravens1113 wrote: »
    RTS wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    el_mago wrote: »
    I feel like people are fundamentally misunderstanding how the skill rating works.

    I feel like people are fundamentally misunderstanding how flawed CG’s skill system is. I get it’s still early but if people are being matched up with opponents millions of GP higher than them, something is wrong.

    No, it's not.

    This is literally how ladder systems work.

    When it’s sorted properly. If you still have people matched up millions of GP apart then something still isn’t right. That’s like saying a new player in COD should be playing a lv 50 prestige. Or in Halo, a bronze shield playing a teal shield.

    If people have intentionally lost some matches to guarantee better matchups for the next few rounds, they exploited the system to a degree.

    Also in a ladder system it’s a gradual increase. Not to mention it’s a totally different ball game with a squad collection game compared to a FPS
    But it’s not like saying that, though.

    I don’t know anything about COD or Halo, (well done for both using an analogy with those games AND saying it’s a totally different ball game in the same post), but I’m guessing that a Level 50 prestige and one or other of the shields are more skilful players compared to the other?

    To me, you seem to be equating high GP and high GL count with skill, and that when players have a large advantage in one or both categories that they will automatically win on account of their skill.

    But remember, it won’t only be people who have intentionally lost that are getting these matchups. Lots of people just suck, or just don’t participate.

    Having said all of that, I am still skeptical about the new skill-based Matchmaking. The end result of it might see most players wind up with a roughly 50% win rate, but if that’s because they’ve faced 6 opponents far beneath them and 6 opponents far above them, that doesn’t sound like a lot of fun.
  • I suspect there's more volatility in different parts of the ladder. I've been hovering around 800-1000th in K1, and my last 10 matches have all been reasonable--most were very competitive.

    Since going 3-0 in the first bracket, which I don't think meant anything, I've gone W-L-W | L-W-L | W-L-W | W--

    So for my small sample, it's been pretty good.

    I also have a guildmate that went 6-0, then got stomped in the next 6 because he climbed too high. Curious to see how this week goes for him.

    Some of this early volatility could have been smoothed out, imo, if we weren't locked into a bracket for 3 rounds. But in the long run, I still see this working out well, at least for what I want out of GAC.
  • To anyone defending the new matching making..

    You have rocks in your head if you think it’s fair.. last GAC I won a few battles but mainly because the other team didn’t attack… I’ve moved up 1 division and the CLOSEST person in my round is 1mil GP higher than me.. I have no chance. Yeah I understand I’ll most likely go back a division soon but it makes this GAC a complete waste of time..

    There still needs to be GP division on top of the new match making system. This was hugely overlooked, it’s not enjoyable going into a battle knowing you will lose because that completely is the opposite of what match making is…
  • RTS wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    RTS wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    el_mago wrote: »
    I feel like people are fundamentally misunderstanding how the skill rating works.

    I feel like people are fundamentally misunderstanding how flawed CG’s skill system is. I get it’s still early but if people are being matched up with opponents millions of GP higher than them, something is wrong.

    No, it's not.

    This is literally how ladder systems work.

    When it’s sorted properly. If you still have people matched up millions of GP apart then something still isn’t right. That’s like saying a new player in COD should be playing a lv 50 prestige. Or in Halo, a bronze shield playing a teal shield.

    If people have intentionally lost some matches to guarantee better matchups for the next few rounds, they exploited the system to a degree.

    Also in a ladder system it’s a gradual increase. Not to mention it’s a totally different ball game with a squad collection game compared to a FPS

    1.) Losing intentionally to "get in an easier league" is a net loss, so if that's REALLY what they want to do....

    2.) This is how it works - it's sorted properly by skill rank (squish not withstanding) if I have won enough matches to get to 3100, and a 8M account has lost enough to get down to 3100, then it's equal skill no?

    Most players- the vast overwheliming majority - who are "better" than their GP allows for, are going to continue to get promoted up to a point where they run face first into a wall of people that can just brute force them down with a superior roster, that's just how it is. The trick is going to be to see how long you can prevent it from happening.

    If it doesn't happen to me this month, it's going to happen next month 100%. I went from Aurodium 5 to Kyber 4, a few more wins and I will start to put myself into the range of people with well over 1M more GP than me.

    This...so, so much this
  • Screerider wrote: »
    When the new system was announced, it sure seemed like *everyone* expected matchmaking to be atrocious, like really really bad, for the first several seasons. At least 3 or 4 seasons, maybe longer. But that it would eventually settle down into some sort of fair 50/50 win rate. Yet here we are, after ONE single season, folks seem to have forgotten this expectation.

    Expecting it unfortunately does not preclude people from complaining about it when it happens.
    https://swgoh.gg/p/319514721/
    DISCLAIMER: Post is subject to change.
  • ImaSmakya wrote: »
    Screerider wrote: »
    When the new system was announced, it sure seemed like *everyone* expected matchmaking to be atrocious, like really really bad, for the first several seasons. At least 3 or 4 seasons, maybe longer. But that it would eventually settle down into some sort of fair 50/50 win rate. Yet here we are, after ONE single season, folks seem to have forgotten this expectation.

    Expecting it unfortunately does not preclude people from complaining about it when it happens.

    One can complain about it without deriding the system as a whole. Plenty of folks in my guild discord complain about their bad matches. But it's in jest. And they understand that won't happen often the longer this goes on.

    Here, one person complains, a bunch more people bandwagon and claim the system is broken.
  • I don’t understand why people think GP is still used in matchmaking. It’s based solely on the Skill rating. They’ve been very transparent on this. Of all the things to riot over, this shouldn’t be one of them.

    Believe it or not, there used to be a time before GP even existed. We used to simply collect, gear, and fight our characters without arbitrary numbers assigned to them. Hard to imagine now, but it’s true.
  • ImaSmakya wrote: »
    Screerider wrote: »
    When the new system was announced, it sure seemed like *everyone* expected matchmaking to be atrocious, like really really bad, for the first several seasons. At least 3 or 4 seasons, maybe longer. But that it would eventually settle down into some sort of fair 50/50 win rate. Yet here we are, after ONE single season, folks seem to have forgotten this expectation.

    Expecting it unfortunately does not preclude people from complaining about it when it happens.

    One can complain about it without deriding the system as a whole. Plenty of folks in my guild discord complain about their bad matches. But it's in jest. And they understand that won't happen often the longer this goes on.

    Here, one person complains, a bunch more people bandwagon and claim the system is broken.

    I wasn’t arguing one way or the other, just stating that expecting something and complaining about it are not mutually exclusive. Also, if you think that complaining about bad MM will decrease the longer this system is in place…
    https://swgoh.gg/p/319514721/
    DISCLAIMER: Post is subject to change.
  • Screerider wrote: »
    When the new system was announced, it sure seemed like *everyone* expected matchmaking to be atrocious, like really really bad, for the first several seasons. At least 3 or 4 seasons, maybe longer. But that it would eventually settle down into some sort of fair 50/50 win rate. Yet here we are, after ONE single season, folks seem to have forgotten this expectation.

    Folks also seem to (always) forget that even this expectation is only statistical. There are always going to be outliers and oddball cases even after the ratings settle down. I mean there are always going to be people who stop playing for one season, and start again in a lower league, for all sorts of reasons. Complaining about it when you are unfortunate enough to run into one of those is just like complaining about getting 0 drops on one particular day.
  • PeachyPeachSWGOH
    284 posts Member
    edited January 21
    A more prevalent scenario will be somebody unlocking a GL between seasons. That's a "league changing" event, at least in lower leagues. If you didn't unlock one and are unfortunate enough to be the one first running into them the next season, you would feel outmatched, but the MM can't do anything about that, because it has not seen what the player can do with their new GL.
  • My first opponent this round was 1.7million higher than me. And with me at 3.7mil that's nearly half my roster more power. Well guess what... he lost. And more importantly I was able to full clear his board. While my DR and team held him back.

    This is the skill factor everyone is referring to. 1.7m gp is a huge depth advantage but it counts for nothing if your opponent doesn't know how to mod or invests too widely and has no peak power.

    Does it look scary at first seeing that big GP number, sure, it makes you hesitant but after looking further I felt confident in my roster.

    I know i won't always be this successful in uneven matches but so far it's been fair and better than it used to be.
  • el_mago wrote: »
    I feel like people are fundamentally misunderstanding how the skill rating works.

    This. It dont matter how much GP you got, you are matched against people with the same skill, im sitting at 3272 rating and I will face anyone with the rating of 3310 to 3610. It doesn't matter if that person got 9 mil gp or 1 mil gp

    Well. I agreed with you mostly—but because of the way Skill was given at the start of the change and given how few GAC matches there have been up to this point, there’s still room for outliers where someone lost a bunch against mismatches and someone else won a bunch because of mismatches.

    It’ll even out the further we get with this system of matchmaking, but with the amount of battles to adjust skill up or down at this point we’re not quite in the safe zone yet.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
  • That would only be true if it was the median player not the average. There might be one realllllly dumb player that skews the mean.
    You know, who doesn’t understand averages…
  • Wed_Santa wrote: »
    That would only be true if it was the median player not the average. There might be one realllllly dumb player that skews the mean.
    You know, who doesn’t understand averages…

    And when two people are talking about how dumb the average person is, probability says one of them is below the median line.
    https://swgoh.gg/p/319514721/
    DISCLAIMER: Post is subject to change.
  • ImaSmakya wrote: »
    Wed_Santa wrote: »
    That would only be true if it was the median player not the average. There might be one realllllly dumb player that skews the mean.
    You know, who doesn’t understand averages…

    And when two people are talking about how dumb the average person is, probability says one of them is below the median line.

    I'm open and honest about being pretty average. I don't have any delusions of grandeur! The areas where I think I'm above average (American history, mechanics of government, Three Kingdoms China) are only because I read a bunch of books--not because I'm inherently smarter than anyone else.

    Way I see this forum is that an awful lot of people are running around who, if there were half as smart as they think they are, would still be ten times smarter than they actually are.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
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