Datacron feedback(its long)

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Peempo
403 posts Member
edited July 2022
Just wanted to take a crack at giving some legit feedback on Datacrons to this point, both the good and the bad. Hoping to keep it fairly objective and free of negativity(plenty of that to go round :P), if folks posting could do the same that would be great :)

I'm going to try to first structure this feedback around the different rolls on each tier of datacron, then get into the farming economy and RNG issues I see. Let's dive in:

Set 1 stat rolls:

The good:
Potency, Tenacity, Crit dmg - these stats all provide some nice oomph to teams, and can effect counter planning in a reasonable manner, nothing too out of the realm of balance here and helps counter play in pvp in my opinion. Stats I'd like to see added? Defense %, high protection/health values to make them more viable stat rolls.

The bad: Health steal, health and protection %. As mentioned above the health and protection values are generally too low to make a significant impact, think this could definitely be tuned better to be more useful. Health steal though? yikes. I think this has been one of the biggest gripes I've seen both from our guild and in the community. This just shouldn't be a stat influenced by datacrons, or should be scaled down by a factor of like 10. With relic characters hitting for 30-60k per hit fairly easily, high health steal amounts result in healing your full health pool in one to two hits fairly reliably. It's been fun to see "Lord Failure" elevated by this, but boy is it out of hand from a balance standpoint overall. IMO remove health steal, or cap it at like 10-15% per roll to keep it in line.

Set 1 Alignment rolls

The good:
Darkside: Darkside cooldown reduce, Darkside potency gain, Daze/stun recover 10% health protection.
I think these all provide some nice functionality changes to teams, especially with darkside teams in general being debuff oriented. The cooldown reduce especially elevates teams like DR, LV, and EP Mara and allows them to do some really special things and creates new soft counters after CG killed so many last year :P. The potency gain and daze provide some nice utility as well while remaining in the realm of balance.
Lightside: Lightside buffs = offense, When LS allies gain a buff recover 2% h/p. I think the majority of the offense side of these are fairly niche use, but these 2 provide a ton of overall value to LS teams with the majority of them being so buff oriented. These two feel especially great and well within the realm of balance without feeling absurd or broken.

The Bad
Darkside: Anything buff related haha. I think some of these can find use, but overall it's pretty niche with how few darkside teams really buff on the regular, or buff more than twice per team, which really caps the potential offense gains or overall healing. There's no doubt a few teams that can use them, but this set felt like you really only had 2 viable darkside options for general use, restricting your options and really forcing more rerolls - ewww rerolls.
Lightside: Same idea here but in reverse - most debuff focused datacrons ended up pretty niche use with the majority of lightside teams being more BUFF oriented. Which again really restricts your overall viable options and forces alot of extra rerolls, or leveling of datacrons to lvl 3 to find a more desirable roll. I think with over 200 characters at our disposal now, any lvl 3 should easily apply to 80-100 characters to really maximize our available roster depth to their full potential.

Set 1 Faction rolls

The good
Inquisitors: Starting with fewer than 2 buffs = tm gain, Stun on special, When debuffs inflicted deal bonus dmg equal to 10% max health. These were the clear favorites, and for some pretty obvious and impactful reasons - anything influencing TM is just gnarly, and really elevated them close to the realm of a GL. Stun on special also opened up some huge synergy with the 2nd sister level 9 and really made them capable of punching up, creating a soft counter situation pretty quick. The debuffs = max health damage was a great elevator of their faction as well, with such a massive focus on debuffs as a team.
Galactic Republic: Stun on special, debuffs inflict an additional 10% max health dmg, retaliate. Stun on special was my favorite of this set, and really made JMK and GAS teams just insane, plus the synergy with the level 9 Aayla was just phenomenal, creating another soft counter from relative scratch was cool and made for fun theorycrafting. The others were a bit 2nd tier but added some fun theorycrafting options as well, and didn't feel too out of bounds from a balance perspective.
Resistance: Whenever resistance allies start with fewer than 2 buffs, all other allies gain 15% tm. Is there another lvl 6? :P This one is just clear and above the best, and it's not even remotely close, with most resistance units having very few buffs at all, this resulted in massive tm gains pretty much every turn. Honorable mentions are 2 debuffs = 65% chance to dispel all debuffs, this would be alot cooler though if there was many counter options to Rey, and generally ended up with minimal impact.

The Bad
Inquisitors: First let me say there should have been a 2nd darkside faction included, as not all of us have competent inquisitors, and their good roll options were really limited to begin with. 2 or more debuffs=65% chance to dispel was a non factor vs just about every team they encountered, and with GI being fast and having a cleanse ended up pretty redundant. retaliate is underwhelming in general, as it really takes til the 3rd stack to provide meaningful benefit. I also think retaliate damage should be true dmg, so it can't be nerfed into the ground by mitigation.
Galactic Republic: I think less was more here. Only 2 of these modifiers really applied regularly to most GR teams. Some made no sense at all - 35% max health dmg when on stagger / stun? Only like 2 GR units stun naturally, and I can't think of a single unit that staggers. Then the healing on crit felt a bit redundant as well with the anti crit mechanics they have as a faction. This category felt lazy overall, and another case of only a few legitimately good options for what felt like a goal of burning rerolls.
Resistance: Bit of the same scenario as the GR faction bonuses, only 2 of these felt legitimately useful. The when damaged by expose gain TM / chance to reduce cooldown was a a fun addition that could've made for a fun build with the Finn level 9, but for the cost of rerolling these, and how few legit good options their were, when compared to buffing a GL especially, just completely fell by the wayside.

Set 1 Character rolls

The good/bad
JMK - honestly all 3 of these were pretty good, with the max/health bonus being least impactful. Bonus ult charge is crazy powerful, and ignoring protection was alot of fun. This did however make for a weird interaction vs LV, with dots being "self damage" it allowed you to basically kill yourself - can we fix this coding already? :P .
Resistance Trooper - uhhhh, not sure I'd say either of these are good, and sadly just felt like a means to waste your reroll materials 100%. I think on the whole any datacron stat we reroll should still find use, even if not optimal and you may want to reroll it. RT rolls were a big old troll however lol.
Aayla Secura - Bonus turn on stun, oooh baby was this nice. Synergized great with the stun lvl 6 and elevated her to GL status essentially, would love to see more of these direct synergies with lvl 6 in the future that elevate and create new soft counters. Big win here. Her 2nd one is a dud however, would be fun to have another legit option, or two :)
2nd Sister: Bonus turn on stun - another huge synergy with lvl 6 and a huge team elevator, big fan of this one all around. Her other two were very mediocre by comparison, and sadly just felt like another means to burn reroll mats over providing legitimate options.
5th Brother: 10% more damage with the kill is mine for each buff dispelled was a fun one, pretty niche compared to 2nd sister however, and none of these bonuses could really hold a candle to hers. Again felt like a resource burn over a viable option.
GMY: The GMY leader focused roll felt like it could be a fun niche team, but unfortunately GMY is a mainstay in atleast 3 other teams, none of which is he leader. His 2nd roll option felt like a complete troll as he inflicts *one* debuff, and the regen is fairly minimal. Sadly this set of rolls felt like an afterthought and yet another resource burn.
Finn: Both of these honestly seemed really cool, but with the limited farming economy of set 1, and just absurd bonuses available to Rey, none of them were worth chasing and again felt like a resource burn top to bottom. Both look really cool in theory however, and if the L9 reroll economy allowed for more of these I'd say it would be fun to chase...but alas..
Rey: Oh boy. The 75% bonus dmg for each INSPIRED ally(fix your site descriptions guys :P ) was the clear favorite here, and made an already crazy high dmg ultimate strictly in the realm of overpowered. I enjoyed it, but I think we need to be more diligent when crafting GL specific bonuses, this one was the clear winner of the set and far and above the realm of "balanced" in my opinion. Her other 2 options were serviceable, but again felt to me like resource burns when compared to the sheer power of the bonus dmg on ultimate.

That's it for set 1, and I think unfortunately the originally limited farming economy really hampered the already limited options to chase here. Also with it being the only means to acquire darkside specific bonuses for 2 months, really should have had a 2nd or 3rd faction available, and more viable roll options every step of the way.

Set 2 stat rolls:

The good/bad: Physical damage, special dmg, armor and resistance penetration. I think all 4 of these will land in both good and bad categories. Good in the sense they elevated every team, light or darkside in unique ways, and bad in that the values felt scaled too high, especially in the later levels, and really created too big of a derth between the haves and have nots in this cycle. I think again that in the interest of creating counterplay, we need some +defense options as well to smooth things out.

The bad:Potency, sadly this stat just felt tacked on for this set, and without a tenacity counterpart doesn't appropriately provide counter play within the pvp meta. Potency by itself isnt bad, but when you compare it to the value of the other available stats, hitting this just felt like a troll.

Set 2 Alignment rolls

The good: +25% TM gain! Sadly overall this feels like the one truly GREAT lvl 3 roll, and made it an absolute must to chase over the others. anything influencing speed and TM will always be the favorite, and the other bonuses just seem designed to burn resources and not adequately elevate teams.

The bad:Everything not bonus TM sadly. There's definitely a few niche uses on some of the others, but for something we can apply to every team in our roster, all 4 of the other rolls feel like complete after thoughts, and a major sticking point in datacrons feeling like a resource grab, and not a meaningful way to diversify the meta.

Set 2 Faction rolls

The good:
Jedi: Riposte, full health/prot deal 100% bonus dmg, damage immunity. These 3 felt like the clear winners, with Riposte feeling a cut above. They all elevated Jedi in a big way, and really allowed for some new team usage, and clever ways to craft new squads. I think having a few other buffs the focus of a mechanic than just foresight would've been cool, and largely more beneficial than attacks out of turn related things but very happy with this sets Faction rolls overall.
Rebel: Riposte, damage immunity, Defense pen/offense up. Same as Jedi, these really elevated some squads and really made different modding a focus, as the ability to ignore protection really changes the dynamic of a fight, as well as DI/regular buff gain. One roll I want to note that is completely not working however is the 50% or more TM/take 75% less damage one. This had/has/potential to be one of the best of the group, but does not work whatsoever, which for an expensive and elusive temporary asset that disappears in 3 months is beyond disappointing.

The bad:
Jedi: I think compared to set 1 all of these rolls can find use, to varying degrees which is a big win. So rather than call any BAD, I'd just say I'd like to see more truly good, like the jedi riposte and full health/prot deal 100% bonus dmg. Maybe some tenacity up synergy? or protection up synergy to make the lvl 3s pop more.
Rebel: Just to drive the point home, the 50%+ TM, take 75% less dmg roll does not function AT ALL. I'm still disappointed! please fix soon as the clock is ticking fast. Same as above though, I think this set nailed it in that these all have some solid use and can allow rebel teams to really punch up, and do interesting and unique new things.

Set 2 Character rolls

The good/bad:
Mothma: The field promotion bonus turn is the only real viable option here, and it's decent. The bonus 25% tm on basic limited to HER turn however is very disappointing. She's the slowest unit on the team by far, and has two specials she can cast, so the frequency of her using basics is very low. Overall would've like to see more fun and impactful options here.
Wedge: Both of these are pretty great, and provide fun new uses for a toon most of us likely haven't used in years, outside of his ship. The 50% bonus dmg is especially great, and actually allows MM to semi reliably counter Rey. It's great to see these create new soft counters, and I think that should be the focus going forward to really add value over their life span.
Ezra: Sadly Ezra is a pretty niche use character at the top end of the game, so I imagine these rolls get more value on the lower spectrum of things. However neither roll are that impactful, and in my position personally left me feeling like it was just a resource drain. Also he and OB are Jedi AND rebel, their options should be available for both, or not at all til they're actually good :pensive:
Old Ben: Yikes. Both of these are pretty mediocre overall, especially considering his main use is countering SLKR, a team that is POSITIVELY impacted by turn meter removal for the most part. That being said his taunt roll can find use, just in a very niche manner, and directly dwarfed by our next units Roll options.
JKL: Special abilities = bonus turn. Dang this one is good, and allows for him to excel wherever you put him squad wise. Big fan, and love the options this creates. His 2nd option isn't as good, but still useful, but I think the goal with any of these should be to elevate a high use character like him(unlike Ezra)
CLS: Both of these are pretty great, with IMO the assist being the better of the two. That being said though they both provide great value to a staple team, and keep him firmly inside the top 10-15 team meta, which you love to see of our hero Luke.
JMLS: all 3 of these options are solid, with his assist on ally abilities being the obvious winner by a large margin. Big fan of how it expands his usage and allows him to punch up on teams he couldn't dent as much prior, and love the options it has created.

Overall set 2 has felt pretty good so far, and obviously it's still young in it's cycle so some of these thoughts may change as things develop and evolve alongside the next set/two sets bonuses. I think for this set being lightside exclusive they nailed a few of the character choices(JKL, JML, CLS) and really missed on a few others(MM, Ezra, OB). I think in general I'd like to see more parity between the available options, so no one roll feels like you ate a big L to the face compared to your peers. I know some of that is to drive FOMO, but some of these options are truly awful by comparison.

Aside from that, set 2 stat rolls feel a bit too overtuned as I stated above, but atleast the health steal is scaled down SOME compared to set 1. Still a ways to go in nerfing that in my opinion :P

Farming Economy:

The good:
I think set 2 really knocked it out of the park on increasing the availability of materials from conquest nodes, and would love to see the availability of the lvl 6 and 9 reroll materials increased even further. having a wide range of materials available via Shard Shop and Ally currency is a big help too but I know a surplus of those currencies are only available to a select portion of the player base, which brings me to some of the bad..

The bad:
Shop material availability. While it's good to have a wide range of options for sale that DON'T cost crystals, Shard Shop and Ally currency are still pretty scarce, so this mostly ends up with a wide portion of the player base feeling completely pay gated on accessing these mats and further investing in their already farmed datacrons. The crystal options could even sell lower amounts of materials as well, and in more available purchases to make them available at a lower cost per purchase to those with less crystal surpluses. I wouldn't mind seeing these materials find their way into different currency options too, like our guild store or GW store to increase availability through a wider range of resources. Hell you can add DC mats to TB boxes too, the more we have the more fun this can potentially be for EVERYONE, not just stupid whales like myself and others.

I think my main closing thoughts on the farming economy is that these Datacrons are so powerful we'll clearly all want and need to engage with them to properly compete, and with more of our resource gain tied to PvP than ever before, we really need to have more means for us all to meaningfully engage without feeling completely paywalled before we even start. Unlimited pack purchases are a problem too, I don't doubt CG is profiting huge from the select few that hit the well hard, but it's not healthy, and creates an unreal disparity between the haves and have nots, which IMO is the last thing this game needs at the moment.

RNG Issues:

As I stated above throughout my longwinded post, I think alot of these rolls are designed to be bad and not desirable, creating the need to reroll more and more to acquire what you're truly looking for. I get that this game needs that element of things both to drive engagement and tie progression to random odds, but it really has felt egregious with just how bad some roll options truly are compared to others. I'd love to see more well thought out sets that really provide benefit across the board, even with a lesser roll compared to the optimal. I'd also love to see these sets each last 4 months or more, to provide more meaningful long term impact, and feel actually WORTH their temporary investment.

I love theorycrafting, and have overall been a fan of how Datacrons have changed the dynamics of matchups we used to know like the back of our hands. However I personally think we have a long way to go to make this system equitable for the entirety of the player base and hope this feedback helps achieve that over time. Feel free to post your thoughts or rip mine apart as you see fit :P but let's try to keep it constructive, and not let our passion turn to anger like some type of Sith or something baha.
Post edited by Ultra on

Replies

  • I agree with pretty much everything said by OP. Only thing I would like OP to touch on, since he is admittedly a whale and runs within circles I’m not privy to:

    What is your sense of where DCs have taken the game at highest end of PVP? Is it healthy or not for GOH as a whole? Anecdotally, it seems to me it’s the players/spenders who engaged with PVP the most pre-DCs, ie modding, relic’ing off-meta, and learning off-meta; are the ones most burned out and hanging up their lightsaber. The players and light spenders who naturally can separate RNG from their PVP performance seem fine with DCs. I can’t tell if the recent shakeups at the top is a coming apocalypse, or just another GOH shift like HSTR introduction or crystals to GAC.
  • I'm with you on almost all of your points.
    I think what I'm most disappointed by is how in theory, there's a ton of sets and options to go for but in practive, only a few of those sets are actually viable. Even worse, almost all of these viable sets are for teams/toons that already have a very strong standing in your roster. Instead of pushing otherwise irrelevant characters to the forefront for a limited time, you give broken sets to characters (GLs) that already stand above all other teams by themselves and add a ton of useless sets that no endgame-player will ever go for.

    I do think the concept of datacrons can work, but every discussion I've seen over the last few weeks indicates there's a need of a serious overhaul or players will continue to leave the game.
  • Totally agree on all points, looking forward to your insights when Set 3 is out. 🦅
  • Let me help you. Whatever you said is irrelevant. From what I surmise, datacrons are a garbage addition, no one cares other than whales and it's a failed experiment.

    To me it seems like a whale function to basically say no matter what our intended character kit does we're gonna change and buff it and get Fd.
  • Jaybee
    29 posts Member
    DashRendar wrote: »
    Let me help you. Whatever you said is irrelevant. From what I surmise, datacrons are a garbage addition, no one cares other than whales and it's a failed experiment.

    To me it seems like a whale function to basically say no matter what our intended character kit does we're gonna change and buff it and get Fd.

    Hello Karen.
  • Lumiya
    1435 posts Member
    Jaybee wrote: »
    DashRendar wrote: »
    Let me help you. Whatever you said is irrelevant. From what I surmise, datacrons are a garbage addition, no one cares other than whales and it's a failed experiment.

    To me it seems like a whale function to basically say no matter what our intended character kit does we're gonna change and buff it and get Fd.

    Hello Karen.

    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
    We are all made of star-stuff
  • Jaybee
    29 posts Member
    Peempo mentioned towards the end about the longevity of the datacrons. I think that's where I'll chime in as I agree to all that was said above (especially the farming economy area - we need to stop the unlimited packs).

    I think we need to slow down the release rate of datacrons. 3 different sets overlapping seems to be excessive. This is evidenced by (in my opinion) one of the weakest and least impressive/impactful set approaching in Set 3. It feels like CG and the devs ran out of options or creative ideas with this one.

    I'm not sure what that should look like. 2 every quarter (8 total a year?) with no more than 2 overlapping? I think having 3 sets at once is just too OP/Excessive coupled with unlimited packs for anyone to just go ham with it.

    R9 is a good baseline here. Sure the packs come out once in awhile - but otherwise the only way to get R9 is through TW. Let's try to streamline the availability somehow. At minimum - reduce the unlimited packs to 2 or 3 per day like you see with the new slicing material for 1,999 that has a max buy of 2 in 24 hours.

    Ideally - I'd like the datacons to last longer (4 months suggested above is a good idea) and to have LESS at the same time running concurrently. With 2 being the maximum we should have at a time.

    Datacrons changed the face of the game. I definitely was not a fan when announced. But it's growing on me. But I will also say that I am getting exhausted with having to keep up on a new datacron every 30 days. It really also severly devalues the modding experience. What does it matter if someone has 200 +20 speed mods or 100 +20 speed mods - whoever has the most datacrons will win.

    Make mods matter again - by adding one feature - you basically trivialized another one. Just my 0.02.

  • I agree with P. I think a good compromise to make the best crons harder to obtain but not have the rest be complete trash, would be to to roll all 3 sets for a quarter into one that drops all together. That way there are still lots of options to need to potentially reroll, but still a higher chance of not getting to level 9 and just having a trash DC. This obviously is predicated on taking out the really bad options and making rerolls more focused on getting the options that synergize well together versus rerolling to get the non junk option(s).
  • Peempo
    403 posts Member
    edited July 2022
    I agree with pretty much everything said by OP. Only thing I would like OP to touch on, since he is admittedly a whale and runs within circles I’m not privy to:

    What is your sense of where DCs have taken the game at highest end of PVP? Is it healthy or not for GOH as a whole? Anecdotally, it seems to me it’s the players/spenders who engaged with PVP the most pre-DCs, ie modding, relic’ing off-meta, and learning off-meta; are the ones most burned out and hanging up their lightsaber. The players and light spenders who naturally can separate RNG from their PVP performance seem fine with DCs. I can’t tell if the recent shakeups at the top is a coming apocalypse, or just another GOH shift like HSTR introduction or crystals to GAC.

    Appreciate the feedback, I obviously can't speak for everyone in my sub group but tend to feel like it's both a negative and a positive for the top end of the PVP meta. On the one hand it adds diversity and lets you truly personalize your defense/offense, even if alot of the teams are similar, your DC odds will be drastically different, so variety is always good. On the other though I think it's just adding another layer of spending to "keep up with the jones" - between omicrons/datacrons/r8/r9/mods etc it's quite easy for a whale to now spend $1k+ a month without blinking, so this will make the top 50 especially much more pay to win, as these are the people most likely investing in staying ahead of the curve.

    As far as burnout goes, that's definitely taking a heavy toll on everyone at all levels, but for our sub group I would say the biggest issue is average relic levels are so high. You can have datacrons on literally every team on the map, increasing the time needed for every single part of the TW/GAC process, from planning to execution. With all the additive time demands of the game, and the STILL 24 HOUR window of TW attack phase this is really just an unreasonable time demand for players and I think the main cause of burnout trying to juggle all these different "needs".

    Again can't speak for other guilds but CAW Patrol recently went to a more casual approach to better balance these demands on our time and energy and it's helped alot. This definitely makes me fear for the next generation of guilds working their way toward the top though, these time demands and TW QoL need to be addressed desperately or I forsee things contracting even further.
  • Rath_Tarr
    4944 posts Member
    Nice analysis.

    Two months active farming per set with a lifespan of either four months or six months per set would dial down the endless grind aspect a bit.

    First month the tryhards / whales could go nuts and gain an advantage.

    Second month the rest could catch up somewhat depending how much effort they put in but the whales / tryhards would have an opportunity to refine their set with replacements / rerolls.
  • Peempo wrote: »
    I agree with pretty much everything said by OP. Only thing I would like OP to touch on, since he is admittedly a whale and runs within circles I’m not privy to:

    What is your sense of where DCs have taken the game at highest end of PVP? Is it healthy or not for GOH as a whole? Anecdotally, it seems to me it’s the players/spenders who engaged with PVP the most pre-DCs, ie modding, relic’ing off-meta, and learning off-meta; are the ones most burned out and hanging up their lightsaber. The players and light spenders who naturally can separate RNG from their PVP performance seem fine with DCs. I can’t tell if the recent shakeups at the top is a coming apocalypse, or just another GOH shift like HSTR introduction or crystals to GAC.

    Appreciate the feedback, I obviously can't speak for everyone in my sub group but tend to feel like it's both a negative and a positive for the top end of the PVP meta. On the one hand it adds diversity and lets you truly personalize your defense/offense, even if alot of the teams are similar, your DC odds will be drastically different, so variety is always good. On the other though I think it's just adding another layer of spending to "keep up with the jones" - between omicrons/datacrons/r8/r9/mods etc it's quite easy for a whale to now spend $1k+ a month without blinking, so this will make the top 50 especially much more pay to win, as these are the people most likely investing in staying ahead of the curve.

    As far as burnout goes, that's definitely taking a heavy toll on everyone at all levels, but for our sub group I would say the biggest issue is average relic levels are so high. You can have datacrons on literally every team on the map, increasing the time needed for every single part of the TW/GAC process, from planning to execution. With all the additive time demands of the game, and the STILL 24 HOUR window of TW attack phase this is really just an unreasonable time demand for players and I think the main cause of burnout trying to juggle all these different "needs".

    Again can't speak for other guilds but CAW Patrol recently went to a more casual approach to better balance these demands on our time and energy and it's helped alot. This definitely makes me fear for the next generation of guilds working their way toward the top though, these time demands and TW QoL need to be addressed desperately or I forsee things contracting even further.

    Appreciate the detailed response!
  • Ravens1113
    5215 posts Member
    Ok…free of negativity….free of negativity….


    At its core, it’s purest form, DC’s providing a rotating boost with temp power ups could be an ingenious thing for the game. However they completely screwed it up from the start.

    As you stated, the rolls for health steal are nuts and when they apply to GL’s it’s even worse.

    If they took GL’s out of the application and redid stats as you say, then they could make niche toons like Aayla into GL level, just like the old TW bonuses did a couple years ago. This could be wholeheartedly fun to do and interact with on a character, faction and alignment standpoint.

    They need to ungate the materials more and let us have access to actually play this stuff. They’re forcing us to sacrifice gear farms by making us use SSC and ally points which aren’t plentiful, as you say. Cut down the number of packs that can be bought and expand the availability of the materials to still allow their revenue but let us play.

    They’ve got a lot of work to do but if they follow the feedback from points outlined here. their community, and the CC’s they could make DC’s very fun and engaging.

    As it stands now though, it’s killing competitive play, leaving it up to the size of one’s wallet or RNG luck; not skill
  • I don’t think DCs are killing competitive play, for the vast majority of players. I’m top 1k Kyber 1, have four L9s between first two sets, haven’t spent a cent on them, and have not seen any noticeable change in my GAC performance. I’m still beating who I would have beaten pre-DCs and still losing to those I would have lost to. If that continues to hold true, then the DC impact on everyone lower than top 1k Kyber 1 should be less than what I encounter, and they don’t have much of an excuse, imo.
  • Ravens1113
    5215 posts Member
    I don’t think DCs are killing competitive play, for the vast majority of players. I’m top 1k Kyber 1, have four L9s between first two sets, haven’t spent a cent on them, and have not seen any noticeable change in my GAC performance. I’m still beating who I would have beaten pre-DCs and still losing to those I would have lost to. If that continues to hold true, then the DC impact on everyone lower than top 1k Kyber 1 should be less than what I encounter, and they don’t have much of an excuse, imo.

    I won my last GAC round because I had better DC pulls for the 25% TM gain than my opponent. Without DC’s my missteps against two teams would’ve cost me the round.
  • Ravens1113 wrote: »
    I don’t think DCs are killing competitive play, for the vast majority of players. I’m top 1k Kyber 1, have four L9s between first two sets, haven’t spent a cent on them, and have not seen any noticeable change in my GAC performance. I’m still beating who I would have beaten pre-DCs and still losing to those I would have lost to. If that continues to hold true, then the DC impact on everyone lower than top 1k Kyber 1 should be less than what I encounter, and they don’t have much of an excuse, imo.

    I won my last GAC round because I had better DC pulls for the 25% TM gain than my opponent. Without DC’s my missteps against two teams would’ve cost me the round.

    Ok. Come back in 3 months’ time and tell me if you moved up a few divisions or a league based on you rolling those extra 25% TM gain DCs. I won’t be holding my breath.
  • AlexanderG
    1927 posts Member
    I don’t think DCs are killing competitive play, for the vast majority of players. I’m top 1k Kyber 1, have four L9s between first two sets, haven’t spent a cent on them, and have not seen any noticeable change in my GAC performance. I’m still beating who I would have beaten pre-DCs and still losing to those I would have lost to. If that continues to hold true, then the DC impact on everyone lower than top 1k Kyber 1 should be less than what I encounter, and they don’t have much of an excuse, imo.

    OK. So whats the point in DCs then?
  • AlexanderG wrote: »
    I don’t think DCs are killing competitive play, for the vast majority of players. I’m top 1k Kyber 1, have four L9s between first two sets, haven’t spent a cent on them, and have not seen any noticeable change in my GAC performance. I’m still beating who I would have beaten pre-DCs and still losing to those I would have lost to. If that continues to hold true, then the DC impact on everyone lower than top 1k Kyber 1 should be less than what I encounter, and they don’t have much of an excuse, imo.

    OK. So whats the point in DCs then?

    Like pretty much everything else in the game: to make CG money, specifically from those who are impatient, those who aren’t good at the game, and those who feel the need to be the tip of the spear.
  • I don’t think DCs are killing competitive play, for the vast majority of players.

    Vast majority probably don't have developed enough rosters for them to matter anyway.

    Small sample size, but my crew of GAC streamers was a top 100 guy, 2 or 3 of us that hovered in 100-300 range, and a lower-mid K1 guy. I've taken the 3v3 season off because of my disdain for DCs. The top 100 guy has stopped scouting and just does random stuff to see what happens. The others seem less averse to DCs.

    Even before I decided to take off 3v3, our streams had gotten very solemn and much less engaging because nobody cared as much anymore. All the work we'd put into learning and refining counters was upended. And DCs by their nature don't seem like something that will re-stabilize the meta.
  • I don’t think DCs are killing competitive play, for the vast majority of players.

    Vast majority probably don't have developed enough rosters for them to matter anyway.

    Small sample size, but my crew of GAC streamers was a top 100 guy, 2 or 3 of us that hovered in 100-300 range, and a lower-mid K1 guy. I've taken the 3v3 season off because of my disdain for DCs. The top 100 guy has stopped scouting and just does random stuff to see what happens. The others seem less averse to DCs.

    Even before I decided to take off 3v3, our streams had gotten very solemn and much less engaging because nobody cared as much anymore. All the work we'd put into learning and refining counters was upended. And DCs by their nature don't seem like something that will re-stabilize the meta.

    Right, the vast majority don’t have rosters to break DCs, and even within the small population that have the capable rosters, a majority aren’t going to commit tons of resources into temporary power. I think those players who were competitive pre-DCs, will need to adjust their gameplay expectations going forward; DCs now present a harder ceiling where there was a weaker ceiling before (mods and relic levels).
  • Ravens1113
    5215 posts Member
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    I don’t think DCs are killing competitive play, for the vast majority of players. I’m top 1k Kyber 1, have four L9s between first two sets, haven’t spent a cent on them, and have not seen any noticeable change in my GAC performance. I’m still beating who I would have beaten pre-DCs and still losing to those I would have lost to. If that continues to hold true, then the DC impact on everyone lower than top 1k Kyber 1 should be less than what I encounter, and they don’t have much of an excuse, imo.

    I won my last GAC round because I had better DC pulls for the 25% TM gain than my opponent. Without DC’s my missteps against two teams would’ve cost me the round.

    Ok. Come back in 3 months’ time and tell me if you moved up a few divisions or a league based on you rolling those extra 25% TM gain DCs. I won’t be holding my breath.

    Well I’m cruising up from bottom of K2 about to get back into K1 and so long as my DC’s keep stacking TM and the applicable rebel damage immunity to start the fight….I like my chances.
  • Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    I don’t think DCs are killing competitive play, for the vast majority of players. I’m top 1k Kyber 1, have four L9s between first two sets, haven’t spent a cent on them, and have not seen any noticeable change in my GAC performance. I’m still beating who I would have beaten pre-DCs and still losing to those I would have lost to. If that continues to hold true, then the DC impact on everyone lower than top 1k Kyber 1 should be less than what I encounter, and they don’t have much of an excuse, imo.

    I won my last GAC round because I had better DC pulls for the 25% TM gain than my opponent. Without DC’s my missteps against two teams would’ve cost me the round.

    Ok. Come back in 3 months’ time and tell me if you moved up a few divisions or a league based on you rolling those extra 25% TM gain DCs. I won’t be holding my breath.

    Well I’m cruising up from bottom of K2 about to get back into K1 and so long as my DC’s keep stacking TM and the applicable rebel damage immunity to start the fight….I like my chances.

    Hmm sounds like you’re properly engaging with DCs, maybe even more so than your contemporaries? Say it ain’t so, I thought you hated them and call for CG to remove them at every opportunity! 😆
  • Ravens1113
    5215 posts Member
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    I don’t think DCs are killing competitive play, for the vast majority of players. I’m top 1k Kyber 1, have four L9s between first two sets, haven’t spent a cent on them, and have not seen any noticeable change in my GAC performance. I’m still beating who I would have beaten pre-DCs and still losing to those I would have lost to. If that continues to hold true, then the DC impact on everyone lower than top 1k Kyber 1 should be less than what I encounter, and they don’t have much of an excuse, imo.

    I won my last GAC round because I had better DC pulls for the 25% TM gain than my opponent. Without DC’s my missteps against two teams would’ve cost me the round.

    Ok. Come back in 3 months’ time and tell me if you moved up a few divisions or a league based on you rolling those extra 25% TM gain DCs. I won’t be holding my breath.

    Well I’m cruising up from bottom of K2 about to get back into K1 and so long as my DC’s keep stacking TM and the applicable rebel damage immunity to start the fight….I like my chances.

    Hmm sounds like you’re properly engaging with DCs, maybe even more so than your contemporaries? Say it ain’t so, I thought you hated them and call for CG to remove them at every opportunity! 😆

    More like I’m getting good RNG while my opponents aren’t getting the proper rolls. The last set of DC’s I got only two useable ones while the rest were garbage.

    But yes, I am calling for them to be either completely redone or removed.
  • I look at Datacrons as they were not necessary…implemented poorly to boot and have some ridiculous stat boosts (health steal). If it is meant for the top end of K1 or the players with spending problems….should have just released r10. The rest of the player base has to suffer in trying to manage these things. Omicrons were enough…as the old saying goes…keep it simple stupid (KISS)
  • Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    I don’t think DCs are killing competitive play, for the vast majority of players. I’m top 1k Kyber 1, have four L9s between first two sets, haven’t spent a cent on them, and have not seen any noticeable change in my GAC performance. I’m still beating who I would have beaten pre-DCs and still losing to those I would have lost to. If that continues to hold true, then the DC impact on everyone lower than top 1k Kyber 1 should be less than what I encounter, and they don’t have much of an excuse, imo.

    I won my last GAC round because I had better DC pulls for the 25% TM gain than my opponent. Without DC’s my missteps against two teams would’ve cost me the round.

    Ok. Come back in 3 months’ time and tell me if you moved up a few divisions or a league based on you rolling those extra 25% TM gain DCs. I won’t be holding my breath.

    Well I’m cruising up from bottom of K2 about to get back into K1 and so long as my DC’s keep stacking TM and the applicable rebel damage immunity to start the fight….I like my chances.

    Hmm sounds like you’re properly engaging with DCs, maybe even more so than your contemporaries? Say it ain’t so, I thought you hated them and call for CG to remove them at every opportunity! 😆

    More like I’m getting good RNG while my opponents aren’t getting the proper rolls. The last set of DC’s I got only two useable ones while the rest were garbage.

    But yes, I am calling for them to be either completely redone or removed.

    So if Set 1 was bad rolls for you, and now Set 2 is giving good rolls, doesn’t that mean things balance out? And if your opponents get the same variability, some good rolls and some bad rolls, then it all equals out, no?
  • Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    I don’t think DCs are killing competitive play, for the vast majority of players. I’m top 1k Kyber 1, have four L9s between first two sets, haven’t spent a cent on them, and have not seen any noticeable change in my GAC performance. I’m still beating who I would have beaten pre-DCs and still losing to those I would have lost to. If that continues to hold true, then the DC impact on everyone lower than top 1k Kyber 1 should be less than what I encounter, and they don’t have much of an excuse, imo.

    I won my last GAC round because I had better DC pulls for the 25% TM gain than my opponent. Without DC’s my missteps against two teams would’ve cost me the round.

    Ok. Come back in 3 months’ time and tell me if you moved up a few divisions or a league based on you rolling those extra 25% TM gain DCs. I won’t be holding my breath.

    Well I’m cruising up from bottom of K2 about to get back into K1 and so long as my DC’s keep stacking TM and the applicable rebel damage immunity to start the fight….I like my chances.

    Hmm sounds like you’re properly engaging with DCs, maybe even more so than your contemporaries? Say it ain’t so, I thought you hated them and call for CG to remove them at every opportunity! 😆

    More like I’m getting good RNG while my opponents aren’t getting the proper rolls. The last set of DC’s I got only two useable ones while the rest were garbage.

    But yes, I am calling for them to be either completely redone or removed.

    So if Set 1 was bad rolls for you, and now Set 2 is giving good rolls, doesn’t that mean things balance out? And if your opponents get the same variability, some good rolls and some bad rolls, then it all equals out, no?

    No lol. It’s completely random and you’re limited by what is available to you in F2P.

    Everyone starts out the same with each set getting that new calendar and getting the resources. After that it’s never an equal footing based on roster depth for conquest farming, which also goes into crystal income for refreshes. Then it also factors in hoarded SSC and ally points for the store. Then you factor in your guilds strength for TW and that’s at the mercy of a flawed TW matchmaking system.

    Now with all those materials out to players at a varying levels, it’s time to play RNG for proper rolls. You could get good rolls and re rolls without needing any extra resources or you may need to spend it all and get maybe one good DC.

    Then add in expendable income and unlimited pack purchases to let people keep re rolling and going until they get the DC’s they want.

    So no, it does not even itself out naturally. Over time the only natural thing that will happen is you will have a far bigger gap between newer and older players given DC’s are gated behind relics, and an even bigger gap that will keep growing between F2P and whales with crystal income tied into GAC.

  • Some people just love them and most people don’t. In the long run they are a negative for the game and will cost long time players more. The top end will be more competitive while the vast majority just don’t care about them and give the bare minimum notice and slowly drop out of the game. Hopefully they bring in some more PvE experiences to retain interest. 3v3 is an absolute disaster with minimal engagement.

    Also, can CG give us the actual drop rates for the bonus mechanics since they are weighted differently? Obviously it is not an equal chance to get the best abilities from their own forum posts. ro13qwn43cnc.png
  • TVF
    36526 posts Member
    edited July 2022
    They rarely give us drop rates so I wouldn't expect it here.

    To clarify, they had to for packs. But not for shard and gear farming.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF wrote: »
    They rarely give us drop rates so I wouldn't expect it here.

    To clarify, they had to for packs. But not for shard and gear farming.

    I don’t expect them to but everyone should know they aren’t equal chances if they didn’t read that.
  • Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    I don’t think DCs are killing competitive play, for the vast majority of players. I’m top 1k Kyber 1, have four L9s between first two sets, haven’t spent a cent on them, and have not seen any noticeable change in my GAC performance. I’m still beating who I would have beaten pre-DCs and still losing to those I would have lost to. If that continues to hold true, then the DC impact on everyone lower than top 1k Kyber 1 should be less than what I encounter, and they don’t have much of an excuse, imo.

    I won my last GAC round because I had better DC pulls for the 25% TM gain than my opponent. Without DC’s my missteps against two teams would’ve cost me the round.

    Ok. Come back in 3 months’ time and tell me if you moved up a few divisions or a league based on you rolling those extra 25% TM gain DCs. I won’t be holding my breath.

    Well I’m cruising up from bottom of K2 about to get back into K1 and so long as my DC’s keep stacking TM and the applicable rebel damage immunity to start the fight….I like my chances.

    Hmm sounds like you’re properly engaging with DCs, maybe even more so than your contemporaries? Say it ain’t so, I thought you hated them and call for CG to remove them at every opportunity! 😆

    More like I’m getting good RNG while my opponents aren’t getting the proper rolls. The last set of DC’s I got only two useable ones while the rest were garbage.

    But yes, I am calling for them to be either completely redone or removed.

    So if Set 1 was bad rolls for you, and now Set 2 is giving good rolls, doesn’t that mean things balance out? And if your opponents get the same variability, some good rolls and some bad rolls, then it all equals out, no?

    No lol. It’s completely random and you’re limited by what is available to you in F2P.

    Everyone starts out the same with each set getting that new calendar and getting the resources. After that it’s never an equal footing based on roster depth for conquest farming, which also goes into crystal income for refreshes. Then it also factors in hoarded SSC and ally points for the store. Then you factor in your guilds strength for TW and that’s at the mercy of a flawed TW matchmaking system.

    Now with all those materials out to players at a varying levels, it’s time to play RNG for proper rolls. You could get good rolls and re rolls without needing any extra resources or you may need to spend it all and get maybe one good DC.

    Then add in expendable income and unlimited pack purchases to let people keep re rolling and going until they get the DC’s they want.

    So no, it does not even itself out naturally. Over time the only natural thing that will happen is you will have a far bigger gap between newer and older players given DC’s are gated behind relics, and an even bigger gap that will keep growing between F2P and whales with crystal income tied into GAC.

    Well yeah, if someone spends more resources, it would be expected for them to get more of a return over time. Assuming you haven’t spent anything on DCs, and assuming you are getting a positive return from it by climbing the GAC ladder, why the hate?
  • Rath_Tarr
    4944 posts Member
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    I don’t think DCs are killing competitive play, for the vast majority of players. I’m top 1k Kyber 1, have four L9s between first two sets, haven’t spent a cent on them, and have not seen any noticeable change in my GAC performance. I’m still beating who I would have beaten pre-DCs and still losing to those I would have lost to. If that continues to hold true, then the DC impact on everyone lower than top 1k Kyber 1 should be less than what I encounter, and they don’t have much of an excuse, imo.

    I won my last GAC round because I had better DC pulls for the 25% TM gain than my opponent. Without DC’s my missteps against two teams would’ve cost me the round.

    Ok. Come back in 3 months’ time and tell me if you moved up a few divisions or a league based on you rolling those extra 25% TM gain DCs. I won’t be holding my breath.

    Well I’m cruising up from bottom of K2 about to get back into K1 and so long as my DC’s keep stacking TM and the applicable rebel damage immunity to start the fight….I like my chances.

    Hmm sounds like you’re properly engaging with DCs, maybe even more so than your contemporaries? Say it ain’t so, I thought you hated them and call for CG to remove them at every opportunity! 😆

    More like I’m getting good RNG while my opponents aren’t getting the proper rolls. The last set of DC’s I got only two useable ones while the rest were garbage.

    But yes, I am calling for them to be either completely redone or removed.

    So if Set 1 was bad rolls for you, and now Set 2 is giving good rolls, doesn’t that mean things balance out? And if your opponents get the same variability, some good rolls and some bad rolls, then it all equals out, no?

    No lol. It’s completely random and you’re limited by what is available to you in F2P.

    Everyone starts out the same with each set getting that new calendar and getting the resources. After that it’s never an equal footing based on roster depth for conquest farming, which also goes into crystal income for refreshes. Then it also factors in hoarded SSC and ally points for the store. Then you factor in your guilds strength for TW and that’s at the mercy of a flawed TW matchmaking system.

    Now with all those materials out to players at a varying levels, it’s time to play RNG for proper rolls. You could get good rolls and re rolls without needing any extra resources or you may need to spend it all and get maybe one good DC.

    Then add in expendable income and unlimited pack purchases to let people keep re rolling and going until they get the DC’s they want.

    So no, it does not even itself out naturally. Over time the only natural thing that will happen is you will have a far bigger gap between newer and older players given DC’s are gated behind relics, and an even bigger gap that will keep growing between F2P and whales with crystal income tied into GAC.

    Well yeah, if someone spends more resources, it would be expected for them to get more of a return over time. Assuming you haven’t spent anything on DCs, and assuming you are getting a positive return from it by climbing the GAC ladder, why the hate?

    He complains about everything. Just look at his post history.
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