I don’t think DCs are killing competitive play, for the vast majority of players. I’m top 1k Kyber 1, have four L9s between first two sets, haven’t spent a cent on them, and have not seen any noticeable change in my GAC performance. I’m still beating who I would have beaten pre-DCs and still losing to those I would have lost to. If that continues to hold true, then the DC impact on everyone lower than top 1k Kyber 1 should be less than what I encounter, and they don’t have much of an excuse, imo.
I won my last GAC round because I had better DC pulls for the 25% TM gain than my opponent. Without DC’s my missteps against two teams would’ve cost me the round.
Ok. Come back in 3 months’ time and tell me if you moved up a few divisions or a league based on you rolling those extra 25% TM gain DCs. I won’t be holding my breath.
Well I’m cruising up from bottom of K2 about to get back into K1 and so long as my DC’s keep stacking TM and the applicable rebel damage immunity to start the fight….I like my chances.
Hmm sounds like you’re properly engaging with DCs, maybe even more so than your contemporaries? Say it ain’t so, I thought you hated them and call for CG to remove them at every opportunity! 😆
More like I’m getting good RNG while my opponents aren’t getting the proper rolls. The last set of DC’s I got only two useable ones while the rest were garbage.
But yes, I am calling for them to be either completely redone or removed.
So if Set 1 was bad rolls for you, and now Set 2 is giving good rolls, doesn’t that mean things balance out? And if your opponents get the same variability, some good rolls and some bad rolls, then it all equals out, no?
No lol. It’s completely random and you’re limited by what is available to you in F2P.
Everyone starts out the same with each set getting that new calendar and getting the resources. After that it’s never an equal footing based on roster depth for conquest farming, which also goes into crystal income for refreshes. Then it also factors in hoarded SSC and ally points for the store. Then you factor in your guilds strength for TW and that’s at the mercy of a flawed TW matchmaking system.
Now with all those materials out to players at a varying levels, it’s time to play RNG for proper rolls. You could get good rolls and re rolls without needing any extra resources or you may need to spend it all and get maybe one good DC.
Then add in expendable income and unlimited pack purchases to let people keep re rolling and going until they get the DC’s they want.
So no, it does not even itself out naturally. Over time the only natural thing that will happen is you will have a far bigger gap between newer and older players given DC’s are gated behind relics, and an even bigger gap that will keep growing between F2P and whales with crystal income tied into GAC.
Well yeah, if someone spends more resources, it would be expected for them to get more of a return over time. Assuming you haven’t spent anything on DCs, and assuming you are getting a positive return from it by climbing the GAC ladder, why the hate?
More resources spent = higher placement in GAC? And someone who did not spend as expected but got "lucky" of higher placement, should not complain? Is that your logic of competitiveness?
PvP in SWGOH was outstanding and fun (until DC dawned on us) BECAUSE you can actually spend less game resources but still compete against the "big boys". How?
You manage your roster effectively, by not farming and leveling any shiny crap to relic9 but make educated investment. Some characters function fine at g12 and can be a key asset for the team. With DC suddenly your effective roster management suddenly hurts you. You want play some characters and have them to be part of a DC team? Go get at least relic 3 first!
You can make smart and focused investment in mods. Put them of the key characters in your roster, like Piett, Echo, Rex, KK, Shaakti, HeroFinn etc. and you are golden taking out big teams even if the rest of your team is just G12 or less. With DC? That advantage is severely diminished in value because your opponent is 25% TM faster than you out of the gate. Your only change? Level your WHOLE team to relic3 and get the same TM DC if you are lucky with your rolls.
You can do smart zone placement in GAC based on extended scouting. Trying to bait your opponent and block them from full clear. With DC, hey you know what? That strategy still works! But now only to the favor of the guy with better DC luck. Putting some OP DC enhanced teams in the front wall and suddenly you can only clear half of the zone if you are lucky. Scouting? Zero needed. GAC used to be fun because you can actually win via slugfest playstyle. But nowadays with DC, you often only get one chance of clearing. if you get stuck behind one DC team, you likely not clearing it.
I have a 8.1m account and I'm punching way higher in GAC than where I should be in terms of game resources invested compare to my usual opponents. Shall I feel lucky? No, I feel proud of my achievement because I "worked" for it over a long period of time. Shall I feel ashamed "new players" don't have the privilege? No, because they will eventually get there too if them follow the same strategy...well maybe not anymore now DC is out.
For me the DC has given the following:
Good:
refreshing which teams are the new meta without new releases or permeant kit changes.
Bad:
Players can buy an unsurpassable advantage, previously you paid to get the new thing fast, and others spending less or nothing could get the same toys eventually, DC's don't allow for that, any being clever with my roster of resources is completely wiped by someone with more disposable income. It would feel better with restricted numbers of packs so the advantage wasn't so big. I can get 1 or 2 DC's in a cycle, but I'm never going to beat someone with a full roster supported by DC's for every team.
Firstly, Peempo, thanks for taking the time to write all this up.
I run the ANZGC group of players, roughly 25 guilds in total and would like to add some thoughts from what we're experiencing.
Firstly, I havent see so many senior, high end players quitting at any time before this. They feel this generally is just taking the game in the entirely wrong direction for power creep and its frankly has lost fun to play. Whilst most see the need for the game to add changes to stay fresh, this just seems generally to have not considered carefully enough the impact on the game or players.
Our second biggest issue by far is leadership burnout. Many of our teams, especially TW officers who are so hard to find, are just either quitting leading or quitting the game full stop. There needs to be consideration for how leaders can actually manage this when changes are added.
To the DCs themselves, the comment on health steal is so true but some DCs in general are just far too powerful. I like the flavour they add but can we please scale it back on the impact. Watching full GL teams not be able to clean up solo GL's isnt fun as a leader. This comment also relates to the power impact of some of the L9 abilites too like Heir to the Jedi for Rey. When you have such a small amount of "ideal" abilities it really punishes those who are unlucky with rolls.
Also with the DC's, please scale back the relic level requirements to max R5. Many of our moderate spending or F2P members simply can't afford resources to activate some of these datacrons and its not a fun thing to see. Worse is in TW when you assign teams differently only to find out filler toons are only R3 on someones account and their Datacron now wont function at all.
I don't think I need to mirror may of the comments above but I will say I'm not against DC's or some system to freshen teams up like TW initially had (please never do 3v3 in it or exclude toons again) but please consider scaling this back.
From a leadership perspective, I can say if people continue to leave like they are many teams, including the top TW ones, will greatly struggle to find people willing to put the effort in. Please, please, please do something for leaders in the game even if its just reducing stress in other areas.
- Remove 600 tickets for raids
- Allow leaders to remove teams in TW that were placed incorrectly
- Offer some in game function to add DCs once defenses are set or change it
Even a couple of things like this will be of relief especially after you had made the demand that officers need to manually sift through how many datacrons opponents have of X type before we can decide how to set defenses. This is already on top of the Omni changes implemented. We shouldn't have to rely on external websites and services that require payment just to have a hope of managing this.
I don’t think DCs are killing competitive play, for the vast majority of players. I’m top 1k Kyber 1, have four L9s between first two sets, haven’t spent a cent on them, and have not seen any noticeable change in my GAC performance. I’m still beating who I would have beaten pre-DCs and still losing to those I would have lost to. If that continues to hold true, then the DC impact on everyone lower than top 1k Kyber 1 should be less than what I encounter, and they don’t have much of an excuse, imo.
I won my last GAC round because I had better DC pulls for the 25% TM gain than my opponent. Without DC’s my missteps against two teams would’ve cost me the round.
Ok. Come back in 3 months’ time and tell me if you moved up a few divisions or a league based on you rolling those extra 25% TM gain DCs. I won’t be holding my breath.
Well I’m cruising up from bottom of K2 about to get back into K1 and so long as my DC’s keep stacking TM and the applicable rebel damage immunity to start the fight….I like my chances.
Hmm sounds like you’re properly engaging with DCs, maybe even more so than your contemporaries? Say it ain’t so, I thought you hated them and call for CG to remove them at every opportunity! 😆
More like I’m getting good RNG while my opponents aren’t getting the proper rolls. The last set of DC’s I got only two useable ones while the rest were garbage.
But yes, I am calling for them to be either completely redone or removed.
So if Set 1 was bad rolls for you, and now Set 2 is giving good rolls, doesn’t that mean things balance out? And if your opponents get the same variability, some good rolls and some bad rolls, then it all equals out, no?
No lol. It’s completely random and you’re limited by what is available to you in F2P.
Everyone starts out the same with each set getting that new calendar and getting the resources. After that it’s never an equal footing based on roster depth for conquest farming, which also goes into crystal income for refreshes. Then it also factors in hoarded SSC and ally points for the store. Then you factor in your guilds strength for TW and that’s at the mercy of a flawed TW matchmaking system.
Now with all those materials out to players at a varying levels, it’s time to play RNG for proper rolls. You could get good rolls and re rolls without needing any extra resources or you may need to spend it all and get maybe one good DC.
Then add in expendable income and unlimited pack purchases to let people keep re rolling and going until they get the DC’s they want.
So no, it does not even itself out naturally. Over time the only natural thing that will happen is you will have a far bigger gap between newer and older players given DC’s are gated behind relics, and an even bigger gap that will keep growing between F2P and whales with crystal income tied into GAC.
Well yeah, if someone spends more resources, it would be expected for them to get more of a return over time. Assuming you haven’t spent anything on DCs, and assuming you are getting a positive return from it by climbing the GAC ladder, why the hate?
Because I’m only climbing from getting lucky rolls on my DC’s getting defensive holds I otherwise wouldn’t get or getting cheap TM boosts that negate the better permanent mods my opponent worked hard for. It takes so much skill away from the competitive field. If DC’s are sooo star spangled awesome, why not let them be applied for PVE play?
I don’t think DCs are killing competitive play, for the vast majority of players. I’m top 1k Kyber 1, have four L9s between first two sets, haven’t spent a cent on them, and have not seen any noticeable change in my GAC performance. I’m still beating who I would have beaten pre-DCs and still losing to those I would have lost to. If that continues to hold true, then the DC impact on everyone lower than top 1k Kyber 1 should be less than what I encounter, and they don’t have much of an excuse, imo.
I won my last GAC round because I had better DC pulls for the 25% TM gain than my opponent. Without DC’s my missteps against two teams would’ve cost me the round.
Ok. Come back in 3 months’ time and tell me if you moved up a few divisions or a league based on you rolling those extra 25% TM gain DCs. I won’t be holding my breath.
Well I’m cruising up from bottom of K2 about to get back into K1 and so long as my DC’s keep stacking TM and the applicable rebel damage immunity to start the fight….I like my chances.
Hmm sounds like you’re properly engaging with DCs, maybe even more so than your contemporaries? Say it ain’t so, I thought you hated them and call for CG to remove them at every opportunity! 😆
More like I’m getting good RNG while my opponents aren’t getting the proper rolls. The last set of DC’s I got only two useable ones while the rest were garbage.
But yes, I am calling for them to be either completely redone or removed.
So if Set 1 was bad rolls for you, and now Set 2 is giving good rolls, doesn’t that mean things balance out? And if your opponents get the same variability, some good rolls and some bad rolls, then it all equals out, no?
No lol. It’s completely random and you’re limited by what is available to you in F2P.
Everyone starts out the same with each set getting that new calendar and getting the resources. After that it’s never an equal footing based on roster depth for conquest farming, which also goes into crystal income for refreshes. Then it also factors in hoarded SSC and ally points for the store. Then you factor in your guilds strength for TW and that’s at the mercy of a flawed TW matchmaking system.
Now with all those materials out to players at a varying levels, it’s time to play RNG for proper rolls. You could get good rolls and re rolls without needing any extra resources or you may need to spend it all and get maybe one good DC.
Then add in expendable income and unlimited pack purchases to let people keep re rolling and going until they get the DC’s they want.
So no, it does not even itself out naturally. Over time the only natural thing that will happen is you will have a far bigger gap between newer and older players given DC’s are gated behind relics, and an even bigger gap that will keep growing between F2P and whales with crystal income tied into GAC.
Well yeah, if someone spends more resources, it would be expected for them to get more of a return over time. Assuming you haven’t spent anything on DCs, and assuming you are getting a positive return from it by climbing the GAC ladder, why the hate?
He complains about everything. Just look at his post history.
Maybe CG shouldn’t give so much to complain about and stop screwing things up 🤷🏻♂️
Replies
More resources spent = higher placement in GAC? And someone who did not spend as expected but got "lucky" of higher placement, should not complain? Is that your logic of competitiveness?
PvP in SWGOH was outstanding and fun (until DC dawned on us) BECAUSE you can actually spend less game resources but still compete against the "big boys". How?
I have a 8.1m account and I'm punching way higher in GAC than where I should be in terms of game resources invested compare to my usual opponents. Shall I feel lucky? No, I feel proud of my achievement because I "worked" for it over a long period of time. Shall I feel ashamed "new players" don't have the privilege? No, because they will eventually get there too if them follow the same strategy...well maybe not anymore now DC is out.
Good:
refreshing which teams are the new meta without new releases or permeant kit changes.
Bad:
Players can buy an unsurpassable advantage, previously you paid to get the new thing fast, and others spending less or nothing could get the same toys eventually, DC's don't allow for that, any being clever with my roster of resources is completely wiped by someone with more disposable income. It would feel better with restricted numbers of packs so the advantage wasn't so big. I can get 1 or 2 DC's in a cycle, but I'm never going to beat someone with a full roster supported by DC's for every team.
I run the ANZGC group of players, roughly 25 guilds in total and would like to add some thoughts from what we're experiencing.
Firstly, I havent see so many senior, high end players quitting at any time before this. They feel this generally is just taking the game in the entirely wrong direction for power creep and its frankly has lost fun to play. Whilst most see the need for the game to add changes to stay fresh, this just seems generally to have not considered carefully enough the impact on the game or players.
Our second biggest issue by far is leadership burnout. Many of our teams, especially TW officers who are so hard to find, are just either quitting leading or quitting the game full stop. There needs to be consideration for how leaders can actually manage this when changes are added.
To the DCs themselves, the comment on health steal is so true but some DCs in general are just far too powerful. I like the flavour they add but can we please scale it back on the impact. Watching full GL teams not be able to clean up solo GL's isnt fun as a leader. This comment also relates to the power impact of some of the L9 abilites too like Heir to the Jedi for Rey. When you have such a small amount of "ideal" abilities it really punishes those who are unlucky with rolls.
Also with the DC's, please scale back the relic level requirements to max R5. Many of our moderate spending or F2P members simply can't afford resources to activate some of these datacrons and its not a fun thing to see. Worse is in TW when you assign teams differently only to find out filler toons are only R3 on someones account and their Datacron now wont function at all.
I don't think I need to mirror may of the comments above but I will say I'm not against DC's or some system to freshen teams up like TW initially had (please never do 3v3 in it or exclude toons again) but please consider scaling this back.
From a leadership perspective, I can say if people continue to leave like they are many teams, including the top TW ones, will greatly struggle to find people willing to put the effort in. Please, please, please do something for leaders in the game even if its just reducing stress in other areas.
- Remove 600 tickets for raids
- Allow leaders to remove teams in TW that were placed incorrectly
- Offer some in game function to add DCs once defenses are set or change it
Even a couple of things like this will be of relief especially after you had made the demand that officers need to manually sift through how many datacrons opponents have of X type before we can decide how to set defenses. This is already on top of the Omni changes implemented. We shouldn't have to rely on external websites and services that require payment just to have a hope of managing this.
Because I’m only climbing from getting lucky rolls on my DC’s getting defensive holds I otherwise wouldn’t get or getting cheap TM boosts that negate the better permanent mods my opponent worked hard for. It takes so much skill away from the competitive field. If DC’s are sooo star spangled awesome, why not let them be applied for PVE play?
Maybe CG shouldn’t give so much to complain about and stop screwing things up 🤷🏻♂️