I think maybe Talia could use a little enhancement

Aeris
29 posts Member
edited January 2016
Hi, everyone,
Do you think Talia should be buffed?
My talia is at 6* and at level 59 with gear VII. Damage from her basic attack is about 1000-1350 depending on target's armor,1700-2295 when it critical hits(about 1 in 5), which doesn't happen often, making her average damage 1140-1540. Her self-heal from basic attack is about 350-472.5 everytime she attacks and about 595-765 when that attack does critical hit(about 1 in 5), which again doesn't happen often, making average heal 465. It appears to me that her total damage output, which mainly comes from frequent 1000-1350 damage of basic attack,which critical hits not often(about 1 in 5), is lower than that of many other characters: despite class, many characters at 6*, and at level very close to 60, do at least 1500-1800 damge if not higher, from basic attacks alone, which critical hit more often to 2550-3060(about 1 in 3), making average damage 1850-2220 compared with talia's 1140-1540.
For that approximate observation and calculation of mine, it appears that many other characters can deal basic attack damage as high as more than 1.5 times Talia does her basic attack damage, not mentioning they have special damage abilities or utility ability making their total DPS higher, whereas Talia's special damage ability deals only about 1900 damage, about 3230 when it critical hits, which doesn't happen often(about 1 in 5), making average special damage 2166 plus 3 turn of DOT, which I think is not impressive either.
Finally, one single use of her special healing ability reduce 1640 of her health from about 8200 to about 6560, and the 1640 health being reduced from one use of her special healing ability will take about 3-4 times of her basic attacks to fully recover, which are a lot of basic attacks required in order to recover.
In conclusion, total DPS, including that from both basic attack and special attack, of Talia is only 50% of that of many other characters, not mentioning her third special is less useful than that of many other characters and her second special make herself very vulnerable.

Furermore, here is some perspectives of talia's basic heal and special heal by comparison to the counterpart of other characters:

Talia's basic attack: heals for 465 health per attack; deals 1140-1540 damage.
Ahsoka's basic attack: heals for 1425(15%*9.5k) per two attacks; deals 1850-2220 damage or higher.
Barris' basic attack: heal for 5000(whole team each member for 16.5k*6%=1k); deal roughly same or less damage than Talia does.( I think Barris's basic attack damage is low, although Talia is lesser in comparison as Talia's basic attack doesn't heal as much as that of Barris does.)

Talia's special heal ability: 40%*4-20%=140% ; team's turn meter increase 25%.
Luminara's special heal ability: 40%*5+20%*5+20%*5=300%(the turn heal can in its way avoid heal immunity if heal immunity wears out next turn)
Barris's special heal ability:
1. Heal single member roughly from 0 to 90% if other members are intact. 90%*1-10%*4=50%
2.Heal two members roughly from 0 to 70% if other members are intact. 70%*2-30%*3=50%
3.Heal three members roughly from 0 to 50% if other members are intact. 50%*3-50*2=50%
4. Heal four members roughly from 0 to 30% if one member is intact. 30%*4-70%*1=50%
5. Heal all members roughly from 0 to 10% if all members are 0. 10%*5=50%

Barris' special heal ability can save two members from the dead up to 70%, which is more practical than Talia's heal ability that waste heal on member with full health and can't heal fully member who is almost dead, not mentioning Barris's leader passive heal ability that heals team every turn(330 each turn or 660 each turn for each Jedi member), whereas Talia doesn't have other heal ability that heals the team, and her only heal ability can't heal anyone up(only up to 40% health)if they are close to dead, not mentioning Talia's loss of health from her special is too much to recover, or if members are affected by healing immunity.

Thus out of Talia's total three abilities, all three I think are lacklusters, and I think it would be more balanced of game play if one of three Talia's abilities could be enhanced: higher basic attack, or better heal, or better special attack.

Replies

  • You deserve a bump with all of the hard work you put into this thread
  • Dario
    326 posts Member
    You need to get out more dude..
  • Austin wrote: »
    You deserve a bump with all of the hard work you put into this thread

    Thanks, hopefully there isn't any grammar error.
  • xJazzx
    808 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    Good effort. I think her special should allow her to recover some HP
  • Dario wrote: »
    You need to get out more dude..

    Ok...

  • xJazzx wrote: »
    Good effort. I think her special should allow her to recover some HP
    Yea, I agree, or her basic attack should have higher healing percentage or simply do much more damage.
  • CronozNL
    2869 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    Long post but I probably agree with everything :p Talia her heal does sync rather okish with bariss heal afterwards (higher total health after equalize). She also gives some turn meter while doing that, tho it's just a waste of turn imo (2 even if both heal).
    She can use the lovebat and I'm curious to see what she does at 70. She is as underwhelming as mace windu.
    439-259-888 I have a bad habit of editing my typo's after posting
  • Good research, well done.

    As she is a support character, I don't mind that her damage is a bit low. However to add to her utility I like the idea of creating another way to earn back the list health from her heal.

    As mentioned above, her special should return health. Maybe something like:

    "... In addition, restores 5/10/20/25/30% of her health"

    Or maybe chance based:

    "... In addition, has a 35/50/65/80/100% chance to recover 15/25/35% of her health"

    This allows her a chance to regen her health in a more reliable way. You could also buff the amount of healing on her basic attack similar to Ahsoka or Barriss.

    For example:

    "... In addition, recovers 5/10/15/20% of her max health"

    This creates an interesting healing mechanic that fits with the offensive nature of the DS and will definitely enable her use in DS hard tables. As is, healing is in need of some improvement on the DS.
  • Her special should be un-nerfed and give her health. Then she's fixed.
  • Totally agree OP. Awesome character she just needs tweaked.
  • Jabberwocky
    1809 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    I only ever use her in DS battles behind Daka and occasionally in GW if the bench starts to get a bit shorter.
    I haven't dumped a pile of ability mats in, I think she's level 3 across the board except for leader skill which may be 2 or even 1.

    A buff to make back her self destructive heal would be a great addition to the third special.
    Ally Code: 945-699-762
  • I think she is balanced. She is a healer not suppose to be much of a dpser. If you have a 5 man party that is 1T, 2A, 2H the 2 attackers should be doing 50%+ of your dps(funny how terms like dps which no bearing here because you can take as much time as you want still stick with us). A better observation would be damage per turn. Then again unless you have a way to determine when the round ends it's hard to tell especially with turn meter manipulation. Dooku and Sid are so useful because not only do they hit hard, but they are so fast. Not sure unless you have damage meters how you would get a real sense of the damage done.
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  • She's still pretty squishy but agree, she's fairly balanced. I just wouldn't use her on my PvP Squad anymore. I did until about level 40-45 though.
    Ally Code: 945-699-762
  • Well I just dinged 60, and I still use her a little. If my healers are beat in GC I bring her in for a turn to heal them. I also have her on my dark side pve team mainly because I dont have another DS healer. I know there are a few other DS healers I don't have the resources as a few bucks above free user atm to get them.
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  • Rolf
    1032 posts Member
    Excellent work in the OP, but I'll point out:
    A. She's a starter character. Toons for free are typically weaker than their earned (or bought) counterparts. Otherwise there's no room to grow.
    B. She's a rare DS healer, which already makes her more valuable than many stronger chars. She has to be relatively weaker as a tradeoff.
    My ally code: 296-673-769. Wish we could have more than 35.
  • CronozNL
    2869 posts Member
    @Rolf
    don't agree, lumi is pretty much easy to obtain and she outclasses Talia by a mile. Also a character purely has use to heal in DS battles makes no sense. She is supposed to work around that as well, it's not a basic toon like ewok scout or stormtrooper.
    439-259-888 I have a bad habit of editing my typo's after posting
  • Rolf
    1032 posts Member
    CronozNL wrote: »
    lumi is pretty much easy to obtain and she outclasses Talia by a mile.
    Not that easy to get her really going until level 40 when GW unlocks. And in most other games you're not still using starter equipment or chars over halfway to the endgame. (At least where the endgame is currently.)
    CronozNL wrote: »
    Also a character purely has use to heal in DS battles makes no sense. She is supposed to work around that as well, it's not a basic toon like ewok scout or stormtrooper.
    I agree that she should do more, but when you consider that she's the *only* team healer for DS apart from Daka (who isn't quick to get) it has to count for a lot.
    My ally code: 296-673-769. Wish we could have more than 35.
  • Aeris
    29 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    Tenchi1969 wrote: »
    I think she is balanced. She is a healer not suppose to be much of a dpser. If you have a 5 man party that is 1T, 2A, 2H the 2 attackers should be doing 50%+ of your dps(funny how terms like dps which no bearing here because you can take as much time as you want still stick with us). A better observation would be damage per turn. Then again unless you have a way to determine when the round ends it's hard to tell especially with turn meter manipulation. Dooku and Sid are so useful because not only do they hit hard, but they are so fast. Not sure unless you have damage meters how you would get a real sense of the damage done.
    Yes, thanks for your observation, which I somehow overlooked, that "damage per turn" should be more appropriate and relevant here than "damage per second", which was owing to my bad wording.
    I think you got a good point that every class serves its unique purpose, that Talia is a healer than attacker and thus is less obligated to dealing great damage than to healing the team.
    You are also right that Talia should be teamed with another healer.
    However, I just think Talia fails to maintain her role as a healer, as she needs another healer to heal her or she is just a disposable, while she is not much of a damage dealer either.
    So If she could maintain herself while healing the team, she could be a proper healer; on the other hand, if she could deal much higher damage, she could be a proper attacker. Until then, I think Talia is neither proper healer nor proper attacker with her current status quo.
    I agree with you that the only role that she befits and that I can think of is auxiliary healer beside being the only healer apart from Old Daka in Dark Side missions, however, I think Old Daka should be a much better alternative as auxiliary healer than Talia. Thus, I think there is yet any use of Talia apart from dark side missions.
    In my original post, as you well point out, I estimated damage per turn of each character I mentioned there without addressing the speed difference of each character I mentioned, which is incorrect.
    To correct my negligence, here is the speed of each character I mentioned in my original post:
    Barris:114
    Talia: 123
    Luminara:118
    Ahsoka: 93

    As the speed of three healers are similar, comparison and estimation I made in my original post concerning Barris, Luminara, Talia, luckily, are still valid as approximation, with exception of Ahsoka, who turned out to be 25% slower than Talia.
    In conclusion, I did my calculation incorrectly concerning Ahsoka, but i still hold my point that many characters deal damage in average 1.5 times that of Talia, that Talia's basic attack damage only have, in average, two third of that of many other characters, and when incorporating special attack damage, Talia has no more than 50% of total damage output of many other characters.
    You are absolutely right that my estimation method is questionable in procedure as well as in accuracy.
    Since you have attended to the detail of my method of estimation, I am happily obliged to further explain myself: i did that partly from calculation while partly from my experience because the absolute calculation would be too complex and would involve great deal of effort of research that very likely would be hindered by unknown modifiers, such as different basic attack modifier.
    Thus I think that, comparing to the moon landing calculation, a simple estimation from experience would be more practical in terms of proving a simple point: Talia doesn't do much damage.
    Sorry for the long post...








    Post edited by Aeris on
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