The real problems with the current meta: too many consecutive attacks, and too much damage

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  • Rolf
    1032 posts Member
    But why does it have to be that way? Just cause it's a mobile game doesn't mean it has to be lean and fast. Many of us addicts still play for extended times, so I believe there's a market for a more robust strategy game.

    (I'm also waiting in vain for some storyline. Glutton for punishment...)
    My ally code: 296-673-769. Wish we could have more than 35.
  • Telaan
    3454 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    Mobile games are typically designed around a strategy of least amount of invested effort/resources while capitalizing on human psychology to maximize profits.

    Also as far as pvp goes in gaming, particularly pertaining to MMOs and similar style games, people have come to expect the ability to either lock down or go so fast that their opponent has little if any ability to retaliate. We've seen this in almost every game to hit the market since WoW where rogues and warlocks; who are two prime examples of classes that were just ridiculous in their ability to control the pace of pvp and as a result win.
  • Just tried a 1 stared FOTP in LS missions as assist, dudes even 1 stared this guy deal 3x more damage when critical hit than my 4 stared fully geared best damage dealer of my team. Are you serious with that ?

    My Sidious crit for 1k1/1k2, when this 1 stared FOTP crit for 3k+ . (My toons are lvl 45 FOTP was lvl 43).
  • Azalel wrote: »
    Just tried a 1 stared FOTP in LS missions as assist, dudes even 1 stared this guy deal 3x more damage when critical hit than my 4 stared fully geared best damage dealer of my team. Are you serious with that ?

    My Sidious crit for 1k1/1k2, when this 1 stared FOTP crit for 3k+ . (My toons are lvl 45 FOTP was lvl 43).

    FOTP is considered a glass cannon, and also slower than Sid and many others. It's best to target glass cannons first, when possible.
  • Sippycup wrote: »
    Azalel wrote: »
    Just tried a 1 stared FOTP in LS missions as assist, dudes even 1 stared this guy deal 3x more damage when critical hit than my 4 stared fully geared best damage dealer of my team. Are you serious with that ?

    My Sidious crit for 1k1/1k2, when this 1 stared FOTP crit for 3k+ . (My toons are lvl 45 FOTP was lvl 43).

    FOTP is considered a glass cannon, and also slower than Sid and many others. It's best to target glass cannons first, when possible.
    Not to nitpick, but with FOTP's health pool I would NOT consider him a glass cannon.
  • Sippycup
    46 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    Anubis wrote: »
    Sippycup wrote: »
    Azalel wrote: »
    Just tried a 1 stared FOTP in LS missions as assist, dudes even 1 stared this guy deal 3x more damage when critical hit than my 4 stared fully geared best damage dealer of my team. Are you serious with that ?

    My Sidious crit for 1k1/1k2, when this 1 stared FOTP crit for 3k+ . (My toons are lvl 45 FOTP was lvl 43).

    FOTP is considered a glass cannon, and also slower than Sid and many others. It's best to target glass cannons first, when possible.
    Not to nitpick, but with FOTP's health pool I would NOT consider him a glass cannon.

    I thought you were fighting him at 1 star and L43? He can be practically one shotted.
  • Sippycup wrote: »
    Anubis wrote: »
    Sippycup wrote: »
    Azalel wrote: »
    Just tried a 1 stared FOTP in LS missions as assist, dudes even 1 stared this guy deal 3x more damage when critical hit than my 4 stared fully geared best damage dealer of my team. Are you serious with that ?

    My Sidious crit for 1k1/1k2, when this 1 stared FOTP crit for 3k+ . (My toons are lvl 45 FOTP was lvl 43).

    FOTP is considered a glass cannon, and also slower than Sid and many others. It's best to target glass cannons first, when possible.
    Not to nitpick, but with FOTP's health pool I would NOT consider him a glass cannon.

    I thought you were fighting him at 1 star and L43? He can be practically one shotted.
    I'm not sure what you mean. I could one-shot any character at level 43 at one star.
  • akositzke
    270 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    I may be in the minority, but overall I disagree with the idea of messing with the current standard for several reasons:
    • As many have pointed out, we are far from seeing how things will balance out as higher levels become possible and new characters are released
    • The main reason that so many are running the same teams is not because that is the only successful character set to use - it's because those are the easily farmable ones that pack the most punch.
    • On my arena ranking list alone, among the top 5 there are several different strategies being used - and on any given day any of them can take the top spot. One of them is running a high damage / high crit droid team. Another is running a high speed QGJ jedi team. Yet another is running a Phasma based multi-attack team. All have success and rotate among the top 10 spots rather equally, along with a handful of typical Sidious / Luminara teams and a several of Poe teams.
    • What would make something unbalanced is if it were truly unbeatable, or if there was one "best" team that would always trump other groups. As stated in my last point, I truly believe that isn't the case. For any great team, there is a counter-team that can be built. For any amazing synergy there is a weak point that can be exploited to knock it out of sync. I have fought many 7* teams in both arena and GW that run the characters / synergies that are supposedly OP such as Phasma / Poe / FOTP / Dooku / etc. Were they a pain - absolutely. Did I lose - at times. There are also times that I stunned FOTP, or Poe's taunt only marked 1 or 2 of my team, and was able to make it through the match relatively unscathed. That's not OP - it is simply RNG luck.

    At the end of the day, IMO, there is no meta team in this game that is unbeatable, unbalanced or without weakness that needs to be adjusted, reworked - or day I say it - nerfed. There are teams that are easier to assemble due to the character farming possibilities, but someone could also put in the time and build an ewok team that would be just as competitive - if not better. It's all about synergies, strategy and a little luck.


    FWIW - the only things that I'd like to see changed:
    • Stunned characters cannot dodge / evade / resist as that simply makes sense to me
    • Leader's boost to the team goes away once the leader is killed
  • Qeltar
    4326 posts Member
    I consider the "end game" argument invalid. We are playing now, not in 3 months, and games like this never stop changing. Balance needs to be an ongoing effort.

    There is some variety in teams but not nearly as much as there would be if defense was actually viable.
    Quit 7/14/16. Best of luck to all of you.
  • Qeltar wrote: »
    I consider the "end game" argument invalid. We are playing now, not in 3 months, and games like this never stop changing. Balance needs to be an ongoing effort.

    There is some variety in teams but not nearly as much as there would be if defense was actually viable.

    I agree a full-defense strategy isn't that viable for PvP, but there are other areas such as "story" missions or cantina missions where a defense / healer heavy team is perfect - and where a heavy attack / crit team would likely not survive. Not every type of team is going to be perfect for each area of the game. Offense shines in PvP, defense shines more in GW and story / cantina. Personally, I'm okay with that.

    I also agree that we can't just focus on the "end game", however I don't see things are "broken" now or in some way incomplete or unbalanced overall - so to me my only thoughts with looking forward to the level cap being raised is that it might change things in unexpected ways.
  • No one is debating whether balance is an ongoing effort. Just thorough analysis to avoid unnecessary changes that cause more harm than good.

    When I first got Poe, I used to think Poe was pointless and kept upgrading Chewie...at least until I evolved my strategy to a fast dps arena team.

    As people continue strategizing and experimenting, I fully expect to check my strategy again over time, even without any changes
  • Qeltar
    4326 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    That's all fine and good, but now that there are known combos that are clearly overpowered, they should be fixed. Synergy is great, but instant wins in the first round are not.

    This is a turn based game. Both sides should get turns. And the game shouldn't be decided mostly by whose op char wins an rng roll.

    And @akositzke nobody really cares about having a good team for missions, except once. :)
    Quit 7/14/16. Best of luck to all of you.
  • ThePedroKid
    368 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    akositzke wrote: »
    • The main reason that so many are running the same teams is not because that is the only successful character set to use - it's because those are the easily farmable ones that pack the most punch.

    This.

    You get to pick six toons to really put your effort into. You can't just star up and level even a dozen toons without spending MEGA $$. When this is the case, everyone is going to get the biggest bang for the least effort/cost. Lumi, Phasma, Sid, Kylo, JC, Poe, etc., are all quite easy to farm up in _different_ areas of the game (so the energy cost overlap is minimized).

    Frankly, they are the only path to start with. After people have blown some $$ and many months have past we should start seeing more diversity. I already know there are difficult to farm toons that are quite better than many of the current meta. They just aren't feasible for everyone.

    I saw a team with a Boba Fett, Aayla combo going that would blow everyone here's mind. Completely insane team. Just can't make it myself or I would.

    There are some crazy good synergies out there. Seriously.
  • Fantazy wrote: »
    xJazzx wrote: »
    Can you give an example of Pvp bonus? Have no idea of what you mean..

    For example, a special arena leaderboard where empire units get x00% buff on offense and defense. Do this for one weekend, for example.

    Then people get their empire units out to play this board, which makes us use units no one is using right now. Next weekend: ewok buff. ETc.

    That would be like challenges except for synergy teams and presumably head to head against another empire, ewok, etc. Team?

    Interesting idea, not sure how practical it is? I think you'll start seeing more Ewoks, tuscans, Scoundrel, clone and empire teams anyway once they add more characters.
    Ally Code: 945-699-762
  • Krix
    99 posts Member
    Game is totally broken. Nothing to see here, pls move along. Better now the after. Don't invest a dollar more until they address these issues. Can't believe how many people got **** into this scam. It's an endless money grab. As long as people keep spending, the game will not change for the better.
    Wish I bought lube before I started playing this, cause your rear end really gets penetrated by the makers of SW-goh.
  • Hi guys. My name is ben. I'm here because I lost due to dooku double attacking 6/6 times and stunning my jedi 2/2 force lightnings while my Sid was 1/4 in heal immunities. I've been addicted to terribad RNG for two months now, and this is the first step.
  • ccfoo
    154 posts Member
    The problem isn't Poe, didn't we complain about chewie whose taunt is too slow to save your teammates?

    The problem are characters who can kill others in one shot, even kill those with max out gears and levels. They might be glass canons, but coupled with a taunter they are deadly cause you can't kill them.

    Nerf those insane damage.
  • Qeltar
    4326 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    The problem with Poe isn't his taunt, it's his speed meter mussing. NO character should have the ability to both go well ahead of others and then on top of it, slow the others down. It is simply too ripe for abuse.
    He's not the only one who does things like this, but he's bad because he also combines this with a taunt and to add insult to injury, high tenacity that makes it difficult to prevent him from acting.
    That, plus the excessive damage from DPS characters as you point out, is why things are a mess. Which is why my first suggestion is to cut damage output substantially across the board. (Or failing that, increase health totals. They are the same thing.)
    Quit 7/14/16. Best of luck to all of you.
  • @Qeltar
    Why are you talking about fixing and balancing when there is a lvl cap increase in a few weeks time? Can't you just await the update and check if anything needs balancing afterwards?

    Feels like such a mess to talk about something you want, which is most likely coming very soon.
    What point in balancing NOW when in maybe a weeks time we get to 70 and e.g. FotP turns out to be bad cause he is already at "current max gear".
    After we reach 70, toons their healthpool will rise as well and we might be having a different experience. This is too premature to discuss with an update in the near future.
    Ofcourse I think balance is an important thing in this game but if you start complaining pre update, I doubt to see any valid points remaining afterwards.
    439-259-888 I have a bad habit of editing my typo's after posting
  • Qeltar
    4326 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    CG knows what the game will look like at 70. I am urging them to keep in mind how unbalanced things are right now (speed and damage are all that matter, defense and health are close to meaningless) as they make changes to the game in preparation for the new release. I am encouraging them to make speed less important in deciding matches, and ensure that at level 70 characters increase much more in health and armor than they do in speed and damage.
    Nothing can ever change if nobody even acknowledges that there is a problem.
    Quit 7/14/16. Best of luck to all of you.
  • I see your point and you obviously are ahead of me in terms of meta, so my opinion weighs less anyway. Thanks for explaining and altho I do agree, I really think the meta will be shaken up after update.
    Only time will tell. Hope this wasn't for nothing since this topic has become quite a large one.
    439-259-888 I have a bad habit of editing my typo's after posting
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