Recent change to Galactic War - open conversation

Replies

  • obiwan1011 wrote: »
    As a F2P player I managed to beat GW about 20 times. Since the game update I've been slaughtered every time I gave it a go. Only need 10 Lumi shards to get her to 7*...

    So EA, please reduce the difficulty of GW! :expressionless:

    Just reload and try other sequence of actions till you get the optimal result. Do you not realise that CG has actually done you a favour and made GW easier with the infinite reload?

    This does not make sense...previously you could get the same results by closing the game...this was the only game mode in which closing the game works like this, so to say it was unintended is quite a stretch...so no, they have made it harder because now that is the only option you have, instead of being able to freely nullify anything inconvenient and guarantee that your entire roster has full health/CDs at the end of every fight AS WELL as being able to reset and pray for better rng if that somehow isn't enough for you.
  • TyloRen wrote: »

    Now I'm dealing with 7 star, purple, and baller teams halfway through, who i get torn apart by because my entire roster isn't 7 star, purple, and baller (there is no way unless you drop $5k). And I've spent a good amount of money on this game.

    I fully clear GW every day. My roster is contains 7* JC and Sid, 6* Phasma, Jawa, Kylo, Lumi, and Daka. I've not spent anywhere CLOSE to $5000. What you're talking about could be done with $500, lol.
  • @ EA. Since the Galactic war has increased in difficulty, why has the loot remained the same. Is it just a way to slow progress so we can spend more?!. Same goes for Ability mat challenge. Tier 3 gives just as many rare mats as tier 2.
  • obiwan1011
    396 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    Wispsi wrote: »
    obiwan1011 wrote: »
    As a F2P player I managed to beat GW about 20 times. Since the game update I've been slaughtered every time I gave it a go. Only need 10 Lumi shards to get her to 7*...

    So EA, please reduce the difficulty of GW! :expressionless:

    Just reload and try other sequence of actions till you get the optimal result. Do you not realise that CG has actually done you a favour and made GW easier with the infinite reload?

    This does not make sense...previously you could get the same results by closing the game...this was the only game mode in which closing the game works like this, so to say it was unintended is quite a stretch...so no, they have made it harder because now that is the only option you have, instead of being able to freely nullify anything inconvenient and guarantee that your entire roster has full health/CDs at the end of every fight AS WELL as being able to reset and pray for better rng if that somehow isn't enough for you.

    Uh, no.

    Say you tried stunning Lumi with Dooku with the very first move of the match and it didn't work. No big deal. Reload and try it on another. If it didn't work, again, not a problem. Reload and try it on another, say Kylo. Then you got an optimal result which it stunned two heroes! Great. Move on. You then attack an hero with Sid, but he misses. It's okay, relax! Reload, stun Kylo (and another hero) with Dooku and then have Sid attack someone else. If you are finding that you are not getting any luck with the RNG, shuffle your heroes' location and try again. Repeat till you win the match with minimal damage/loss.

    For those who say you get no chance to heal depleted heroes, you just need to reload many times to avoid getting into that situation in the first place.

    There is a reason why some considered force close (the new retreat) as a cheat because there were no consequences. In the old retreat, if Dooku failed to stun Lumi and retreated, he would go first again, but his lightning was consumed and not usable. Hence, there was a cost for retreating/reloading.

    So we should "thank" CG for making GW easier at the expense of making it incredibly boring and tedious.

    I guess there is also a reason why some players are raving about and defending the new retreat because you are almost guaranteed to get those loot.
  • This is my first post. I've lurked here since the launch but since you're checking out this thread, I figured I'd add my two cents.

    I'll start by saying I like this game a lot. It's fun, I've played everyday, and enjoy the mechanics. Before the patch, I completed Galactic War probably about 95% of the time once I learned about retreat. Every now and then I would catch some horrible breaks and lose central characters to burst before I could sub them out, but for the most part, I completed it. I would use probably 7-10 characters mainly, but would use more with bad luck. Even as placeholders, they had a use.

    At first, after the patch, I was worried that I wouldn't be able to beat it. I had some serious trouble the first day, until I realized that there is literally no way to lose now. Just hit rewind, and start over. On top of that, as you already mentioned, everything is predetermined, so I know which moves to use on which characters. It's like Groundhog Day. Play, screw up, start over, get a little farther, screw up, start over, etc. When I get teams that were fast, I started using my fast characters. I ended up with a lumi, daka, dooku, jc, sid team. I always start with two stunning characters, with the possibility to stun 4 of their characters. If they miss, resist, whatever, I just restart, hit someone else. I fend off the small attacks from whoever isn't stunned, kill their dangerous characters, and then mop up and heal for the next round.

    This has turned out to be really effective, and even with bad luck I only will restart 2 or so times at worst. The end result is I finish a lot quicker, but I only use 5 characters the entire time. I actually use less this way. It's less fun for me, and even though I'm aware that I'm free to choose to play it a different way (ie, not restart, just die, lose on level 10 or so), the rewards make it so it's hard to beat it just to stay competitive.

    And with that all said, I honestly don't know how to fix this. Knowing about force closing now, going back to the old way would probably not work since now everyone knows how to do it and how well it works. I just know that it is less fun for me personally.

    I think one of the bigger issues is that this patch didn't really deliver any excitement to counter any of this. We were hoping for 8 new farmable characters in cantina holotable nodes, but 6 of the 8 were repeats from earlier in the holotable. Of the 8 hard node shards, 3 are farmable in holotable, making them redundant. You don't have to give us brand new characters (although it would be nice) but really for the majority of us, there is very little added in terms of characters we have access to. Nothing new in arena, holotable, or GW shipments either.

    On top of that, there were no balance changes, and few bug fixes. The targeting bug is still around. Basically with all the things that COULD have been added or fixed, instead we get a change to the GW that most didn't think was broken to begin with. It feels like a step backwards instead of forward, or even standing still.

    And just to end, I know that this is a long post full of criticism, and probably more frustrating for you that I chose this to be my first post, but the only reason I took the time to type it is that I really like this game, and look forward to it's future. I really was excited about this patch and sort of felt like I had the wind taken out of my sails, but it's not the end of the world. I'm not going to quit, not going to threaten you with my wallet (it's empty anyway), just hope that you do better in the future.
  • @EA_Jesse and other staff. I like the changes that have taken place to GW. Unlike when I paid $50 for Barriss and all the the free players kept crying about how OP she was. I wouldn't have bought her otherwise because now I don't even use her. And unlike a lot of the people crying about changes, I have over $300 invested in this game. I'm not saying it like that's a good thing, or that there aren't others with more invested, because when everyone wants to cry about it being unequal then you should contribute to Capital Games, EA, and Disney the way I have, and other pay to win players have. And as for future changes I believe it's more important not to change anything that someone has invested actually money in, and its more important to support the players who pay than those who don't. Sorry, but you should invest or quit complaining, if they drive away the paying player with nerf changes to accommodate those who don't contribute then that is a flawed system, and will aggravate the paying player.
    "Who I am is not important, my message is."
    - Revan
  • Wispsi
    255 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    obiwan1011 wrote: »
    Wispsi wrote: »
    obiwan1011 wrote: »
    As a F2P player I managed to beat GW about 20 times. Since the game update I've been slaughtered every time I gave it a go. Only need 10 Lumi shards to get her to 7*...

    So EA, please reduce the difficulty of GW! :expressionless:

    Just reload and try other sequence of actions till you get the optimal result. Do you not realise that CG has actually done you a favour and made GW easier with the infinite reload?

    This does not make sense...previously you could get the same results by closing the game...this was the only game mode in which closing the game works like this, so to say it was unintended is quite a stretch...so no, they have made it harder because now that is the only option you have, instead of being able to freely nullify anything inconvenient and guarantee that your entire roster has full health/CDs at the end of every fight AS WELL as being able to reset and pray for better rng if that somehow isn't enough for you.

    Uh, no.

    Say you tried stunning Lumi with Dooku with the very first move of the match and it didn't work. No big deal. Reload and try it on another. If it didn't work, again, not a problem. Reload and try it on another, say Kylo. Then you got an optimal result which it stunned two heroes! Great. Move on. You then attack an hero with Sid, but he misses. It's okay, relax! Reload, stun Kylo with Dooku and then have Sid attack someone else. Repeat till you win the match with minimal damage/loss.

    For those who say you get no chance to heal depleted heroes, you just need to reload many times to avoid getting into that situation in the first place.

    There is a reason why some considered force close (the new retreat) as a cheat because there were no consequences. In the old retreat, if Dooku failed to stun Lumi and retreated, he would go first again, but his lightning was consumed and not usable. Hence, there was a cost for retreating/reloading.

    So we should "thank" CG for making GW easier at the expense of making it incredibly boring and tedious.

    So you are saying that being able to send in fast attackers and get 4-1 ratio of attacks before retreating and the ability to ignore all buffs/debuffs (oh I lose my buffs? That's ok I know I'm going to retreat turn 1 because ai uses specials first so just don't use them before retreating...) and freely top up all health and CDs of your entire roster every fight by rotating people in against the final character or two AS WELL as being able to reset the fight and spend hours finding the perfect rng...is harder than JUST having the ability to reset the fight and try again?


    Logic...

    And just to be clear, there are people who considered the old retreat cheating too. "Well it was programmed into the game" you say...well so was force close behaviour...and in be end that is the one they actually endorsed lol so calling any of it cheating is kind of silly.


    But you k ow what is even easier than all this constant resets for perfect stuns and all that wasted time? Having a look at your team and their team and just winning the fight without needing to constantly reset... I was using 5-7 people before the change and omg it was so much easier, now at least there is a chance I might actually lose and sometimes am forced to use the retreat to reset and try new approach. PREVIOUSLY THIS WAS NOT THE CASE it seemed basically impossible to lose a fight for me with old retreat and then I also had a reset option on top of that if I ever felt the need to use it rofl.


    "It so easy I just waste hours just spamming stuns till I stun their whole team" sounds like hard boring work to me...I still complete it in less than an hour and I dont use your tactic rofl because it is not optimal it is just the only crutch remaining for people who refuse to think and/or build up teams that consistently do well against the teams you face.

    Although tbh with this bad ai I think a number of teams can consistently win against the majority of teams out there.
  • Wispsi wrote: »
    obiwan1011 wrote: »
    Wispsi wrote: »
    obiwan1011 wrote: »
    As a F2P player I managed to beat GW about 20 times. Since the game update I've been slaughtered every time I gave it a go. Only need 10 Lumi shards to get her to 7*...

    So EA, please reduce the difficulty of GW! :expressionless:

    Just reload and try other sequence of actions till you get the optimal result. Do you not realise that CG has actually done you a favour and made GW easier with the infinite reload?

    This does not make sense...previously you could get the same results by closing the game...this was the only game mode in which closing the game works like this, so to say it was unintended is quite a stretch...so no, they have made it harder because now that is the only option you have, instead of being able to freely nullify anything inconvenient and guarantee that your entire roster has full health/CDs at the end of every fight AS WELL as being able to reset and pray for better rng if that somehow isn't enough for you.

    Uh, no.

    Say you tried stunning Lumi with Dooku with the very first move of the match and it didn't work. No big deal. Reload and try it on another. If it didn't work, again, not a problem. Reload and try it on another, say Kylo. Then you got an optimal result which it stunned two heroes! Great. Move on. You then attack an hero with Sid, but he misses. It's okay, relax! Reload, stun Kylo with Dooku and then have Sid attack someone else. Repeat till you win the match with minimal damage/loss.

    For those who say you get no chance to heal depleted heroes, you just need to reload many times to avoid getting into that situation in the first place.

    There is a reason why some considered force close (the new retreat) as a cheat because there were no consequences. In the old retreat, if Dooku failed to stun Lumi and retreated, he would go first again, but his lightning was consumed and not usable. Hence, there was a cost for retreating/reloading.

    So we should "thank" CG for making GW easier at the expense of making it incredibly boring and tedious.

    So you are saying that being able to send in fast attackers and get 4-1 ratio of attacks before retreating and the ability to ignore all buffs/debuffs (oh I lose my buffs? That's ok I know I'm going to retreat turn 1 because ai uses specials first so just don't use them before retreating...) and freely top up all health and CDs of your entire roster every fight by rotating people in against the final character or two AS WELL as being able to reset the fight and spend hours finding the perfect rng...is harder than JUST having the ability to reset the fight and try again?


    Logic...

    And just to be clear, there are people who considered the old retreat cheating too. "Well it was programmed into the game" you say...well so was force close behaviour...and in be end that is the one they actually endorsed lol so calling any of it cheating is kind of silly.


    But you k ow what is even easier than all this constant resets for perfect stuns and all that wasted time? Having a look at your team and their team and just winning the fight without needing to constantly reset... I was using 5-7 people before the change and omg it was so much easier, now at least there is a chance I might actually lose and sometimes am forced to use the retreat to reset and try new approach. PREVIOUSLY THIS WAS NOT THE CASE it seemed basically impossible to lose a fight for me with old retreat and then I also had a reset option on top of that if I ever felt the need to use it rofl.


    "It so easy I just waste hours just spamming stuns till I stun their whole team" sounds like hard boring work to me...I still complete it in less than an hour and I dont use your tactic rofl because it is not optimal it is just the only crutch remaining for people who refuse to think and/or build up teams that consistently do well against the teams you face.

    Although tbh with this bad ai I think a number of teams can consistently win against the majority of teams out there.

    Turn order and buffs/debuffs should've persisted after retreating. They should've done an elegant fix to those issues instead of the sledge hammer of this "fix".
  • Chico
    120 posts Member
    Modnoc wrote: »
    I created an account just to post this.

    I used to clear the whole thing in about 45 minutes, now I'm spending upwards of 4 hours constantly retrying each mission until I learn the proper series of actions that will lead to a completion with most of my team healthy enough to move on

    +1
  • Wispsi wrote: »
    obiwan1011 wrote: »
    Wispsi wrote: »
    obiwan1011 wrote: »
    As a F2P player I managed to beat GW about 20 times. Since the game update I've been slaughtered every time I gave it a go. Only need 10 Lumi shards to get her to 7*...

    So EA, please reduce the difficulty of GW! :expressionless:

    Just reload and try other sequence of actions till you get the optimal result. Do you not realise that CG has actually done you a favour and made GW easier with the infinite reload?

    This does not make sense...previously you could get the same results by closing the game...this was the only game mode in which closing the game works like this, so to say it was unintended is quite a stretch...so no, they have made it harder because now that is the only option you have, instead of being able to freely nullify anything inconvenient and guarantee that your entire roster has full health/CDs at the end of every fight AS WELL as being able to reset and pray for better rng if that somehow isn't enough for you.

    Uh, no.

    Say you tried stunning Lumi with Dooku with the very first move of the match and it didn't work. No big deal. Reload and try it on another. If it didn't work, again, not a problem. Reload and try it on another, say Kylo. Then you got an optimal result which it stunned two heroes! Great. Move on. You then attack an hero with Sid, but he misses. It's okay, relax! Reload, stun Kylo with Dooku and then have Sid attack someone else. Repeat till you win the match with minimal damage/loss.

    For those who say you get no chance to heal depleted heroes, you just need to reload many times to avoid getting into that situation in the first place.

    There is a reason why some considered force close (the new retreat) as a cheat because there were no consequences. In the old retreat, if Dooku failed to stun Lumi and retreated, he would go first again, but his lightning was consumed and not usable. Hence, there was a cost for retreating/reloading.

    So we should "thank" CG for making GW easier at the expense of making it incredibly boring and tedious.

    So you are saying that being able to send in fast attackers and get 4-1 ratio of attacks before retreating and the ability to ignore all buffs/debuffs (oh I lose my buffs? That's ok I know I'm going to retreat turn 1 because ai uses specials first so just don't use them before retreating...) and freely top up all health and CDs of your entire roster every fight by rotating people in against the final character or two AS WELL as being able to reset the fight and spend hours finding the perfect rng...is harder than JUST having the ability to reset the fight and try again?


    Logic...

    And just to be clear, there are people who considered the old retreat cheating too. "Well it was programmed into the game" you say...well so was force close behaviour...and in be end that is the one they actually endorsed lol so calling any of it cheating is kind of silly.


    But you k ow what is even easier than all this constant resets for perfect stuns and all that wasted time? Having a look at your team and their team and just winning the fight without needing to constantly reset... I was using 5-7 people before the change and omg it was so much easier, now at least there is a chance I might actually lose and sometimes am forced to use the retreat to reset and try new approach. PREVIOUSLY THIS WAS NOT THE CASE it seemed basically impossible to lose a fight for me with old retreat and then I also had a reset option on top of that if I ever felt the need to use it rofl.


    "It so easy I just waste hours just spamming stuns till I stun their whole team" sounds like hard boring work to me...I still complete it in less than an hour and I dont use your tactic rofl because it is not optimal it is just the only crutch remaining for people who refuse to think and/or build up teams that consistently do well against the teams you face.

    Although tbh with this bad ai I think a number of teams can consistently win against the majority of teams out there.

    Not really sure what you are trying to say as you seem to go back and forth, but elaborate this "new approach?"

    Do you have a deep bench, full of max-geared 7* heroes so that you can "strategise" and field a different line-up depending on what the opponent's team comp is? If so, good for you. But other than few whales, most don't. Hence, we just send out our best five heroes (which were groomed up with some synergy planned) and try to make the best out of them. If one of them dies, we plug in the next best one.

    So help me understand what this "new approach" is - other than being a constant reload to derive the optimal result. If that is what you consider as "new approach" and enjoy doing it, then fine, so be it.

    As with many other high-level players, I honestly don't mind the new retreat other than the fact that it is incredibly repetitious and boring. My squad cannot die, not because I have an invincible team (far from it), but because I don't put them into that situation, thanks to the reloads without any consequence. If one of my heroes is depleted too much to the point that he/she will be focused on and killed in the next match, then I just reload and start over.

    Finally, I am not suggesting to bring back the old retreat without any tweak. Please make the buffs/debuffs remain so that it is challenging.
  • Hey everyone –

    First off, thank you all for taking the time to share your thoughts. It’s really helpful to hear from you guys – even if you don’t like the change.

    At first I was thinking of responding to each and every post, but then realized that would have ballooned this thread beyond the point of usefulness.

    Instead, I want to summarize what I’m hearing and then address some of the comments specifically in follow-up posts.

    So, here are some key themes from my perspective. Let me know if you think I missed anything.
    1. Overall, reaction is pretty mixed. Some really like or love it. Some hate it. Some folks have even claimed to rage quit over this one change.
    2. Some say it’s now too easy. Some say it’s now too hard.
    3. Some say it’s just tedious now. Some say it’s much more fun.
    4. There’s interest in us tuning of the amount of health gained after a Victory as well as reviewing how opponents are chosen. We will review the weekend’s data and make some decisions about whether either (or both) need adjustment. Stay tuned.
    5. Timing of this change along with the increased level cap was awkward as now folks who were at the level cap need to choose between progressing their top characters and bringing up their bench strength.
    6. Some folks have a misperception that we took the “lazy” way out. Not the case. We brought the feature back into alignment with the design vision. The way Retreat was working before was not intended.
    7. There have been suggestions as to how we might adjust the rewards, including calibrating them based on the number of times Retreat is used. We haven’t discussed this idea before, and I’ll need to vet it with the team.
    8. There’s a misperception that GW is the be-all for end game content. That is not the case. I’ve stated in a couple of side threads that because GW scales with you, there’s a good chance it could still be relevant deep into the player lifecycle. However, we have a lot of truly amazing things planned for this game that have nothing to do with GW. ;)
    9. Some have complained they face too many repeat party builds. Couple things on that. First, the game is still in its early days and the meta is still evolving. As we bring out new characters, that will change. As players explore what’s already available, that will change. We might even programmatically try to provide more varied enemy parties.
    10. Some have asked why we did this vs. fixing XYZ bugs or addressing certain tuning asks, etc. We do have a major update coming -- really the first since we launched -- and there are a ton of bug fixes and improvements coming with that release. Jesse will start previewing some of what's coming next week.

    Those that are saying the new approach is more tedious appear to be relying heavily on resetting the random number seed. As I mentioned in the original announcement, this is an area we are discussing changing. If you want to see the impact of that, try playing without focusing on re-setting the seed as your means of getting through tough battles. What would you do then?

    Some have stated that the old, unintended system was a lot of fun for them. This is good feedback, and what I’d like to do is find a way to capture that experience in a holistic way in the future feature -- either as a different mode or difficulty setting for GW, or as the basis for a new activity.

    Please let me know if I missed any key themes - or if you think I'm misinterpreting / misrepresenting anything. I've read literally hundreds of posts on this and other threads, so there's always a chance I missed something. ;)

    Next up, I'll respond to a few posts individually.

    Thanks for reading, and thank you all so much for caring enough to take the time to engage in this dialog!
  • MeetraSurik
    313 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    Hey everyone –
    Stuff

    Thanks for putting so much effort fourth on a Sunday. I had a bunch here, but I'll wait for you to respond to the stuff that's already in the HUGE thread. Try not to let those that call CG lazy, or greedy, get you down. Most of us are adults with realistic expectations, and some are better dealt with via purposefully ignoring them.
  • @Relish_Yoda - Thanks for the post. Two main things I want to cover here in more detail...
    A lot of what I've been reading (from @Qeltar and others) is that GW now an "RNG" game, where you basically play the same match again and again until you win while suffering the least amount of damage. It is not worthwhile to move on otherwise, since losing a member of your "A" team is just too dangerous.

    Separately, I see you write above that part of the goal is to maximize your whole collection and think about synergies. Even considering using a "pawn" strategically. I think players will not adapt this behavior quickly because, given that GW is so difficult (i.e. you play against higher level teams pretty early on), playing a match with a pawn and the rest of your "A" team will probably be way too costly to your other four "A" team members. I.e. it is unlikely that the rest of your "A" team emerges victorious unscathed.


    "GW now an 'RNG' game"

    I mentioned this in my follow-up post above, but I want to underscore that this is not likely to persist. The goal of the feature is to have you think strategically about which parties you can build to take on the current opponent and to explore a broader set of characters and party synergies.

    Once you're in battle, of course, you need to fight strategically as well. This isn't meant to be an auto-battle experience.

    If you don't have a good counter to the type of party you're facing, then you have a longer term goal to find, acquire, and build up that type of party. The goal is not for you to run an ineffectual party against an opponent repeatedly until you happen to get a lucky random number seed.

    If you look down your bench past your top 5-6 characters, and you see a bunch of low level, under-geared, poorly powered scrubs, you're likely going to have a hard time progressing.

    That being said, you can throw 1-to-5 lower powered characters at an opponent to have them waste their special abilities on killing your pawns. That will leave them in a weakened state for your A or B Team to mop them up. :)
    I think a way to incentivize the behavior that you want is to allow us to see the entire 60 players that we will face in the galactic war in the beggining. It'll allow us to "plan" for the war of attrition and add a huge layer of strategy!

    This is an interesting idea which I'd like to bring up with the team. There may be knock-on effects I'm not considering, but I think it could work. Stay tuned. ;)

  • With all due respect,

    "We want to make GW more challenging" = "You need to have a deeper bench" = Spend more money...
  • d3gauss
    311 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    If you look down your bench past your top 5-6 characters, and you see a bunch of low level, under-geared, poorly powered scrubs, you're likely going to have a hard time progressing.

    @CG_JohnSalera

    You have to know, as it is your game, how ridiculously difficult you made it to gear and level up more than a handful of characters.

    Training droids are abundant (this is probably a result of the aft mentioned), but the credits to level a character would be impossible to keep up with if you are leveling more than one team.

    Gear is also ridiculous, you could run a match 6 or 7 times before you get the piece of green gear required to do one piece of low level gear. Once you are above green it could be a day of refreshes per gear.

    And then you have shards...sometimes you might get 3 or 4 a week.

    I can understand these are all pay walls, but you are saying you envisioned everyone having this huge stable of characters to finish GW, did you really envision the majority of your player base paying to do it?

    By all means, paywalls, but they are a bit extreme.

    As you mentioned, the timing of this along with the level increase exasperated this issue. The level increase probably shouldn't have even happened now, you didn't let people catch up at all, and you aren't letting people have the time to level more than one team.
  • Wispsi
    255 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    obiwan1011 wrote: »
    Wispsi wrote: »
    obiwan1011 wrote: »
    Wispsi wrote: »
    obiwan1011 wrote: »
    As a F2P player I managed to beat GW about 20 times. Since the game update I've been slaughtered every time I gave it a go. Only need 10 Lumi shards to get her to 7*...

    So EA, please reduce the difficulty of GW! :expressionless:

    Just reload and try other sequence of actions till you get the optimal result. Do you not realise that CG has actually done you a favour and made GW easier with the infinite reload?

    This does not make sense...previously you could get the same results by closing the game...this was the only game mode in which closing the game works like this, so to say it was unintended is quite a stretch...so no, they have made it harder because now that is the only option you have, instead of being able to freely nullify anything inconvenient and guarantee that your entire roster has full health/CDs at the end of every fight AS WELL as being able to reset and pray for better rng if that somehow isn't enough for you.

    Uh, no.

    Say you tried stunning Lumi with Dooku with the very first move of the match and it didn't work. No big deal. Reload and try it on another. If it didn't work, again, not a problem. Reload and try it on another, say Kylo. Then you got an optimal result which it stunned two heroes! Great. Move on. You then attack an hero with Sid, but he misses. It's okay, relax! Reload, stun Kylo with Dooku and then have Sid attack someone else. Repeat till you win the match with minimal damage/loss.

    For those who say you get no chance to heal depleted heroes, you just need to reload many times to avoid getting into that situation in the first place.

    There is a reason why some considered force close (the new retreat) as a cheat because there were no consequences. In the old retreat, if Dooku failed to stun Lumi and retreated, he would go first again, but his lightning was consumed and not usable. Hence, there was a cost for retreating/reloading.

    So we should "thank" CG for making GW easier at the expense of making it incredibly boring and tedious.

    So you are saying that being able to send in fast attackers and get 4-1 ratio of attacks before retreating and the ability to ignore all buffs/debuffs (oh I lose my buffs? That's ok I know I'm going to retreat turn 1 because ai uses specials first so just don't use them before retreating...) and freely top up all health and CDs of your entire roster every fight by rotating people in against the final character or two AS WELL as being able to reset the fight and spend hours finding the perfect rng...is harder than JUST having the ability to reset the fight and try again?


    Logic...

    And just to be clear, there are people who considered the old retreat cheating too. "Well it was programmed into the game" you say...well so was force close behaviour...and in be end that is the one they actually endorsed lol so calling any of it cheating is kind of silly.


    But you k ow what is even easier than all this constant resets for perfect stuns and all that wasted time? Having a look at your team and their team and just winning the fight without needing to constantly reset... I was using 5-7 people before the change and omg it was so much easier, now at least there is a chance I might actually lose and sometimes am forced to use the retreat to reset and try new approach. PREVIOUSLY THIS WAS NOT THE CASE it seemed basically impossible to lose a fight for me with old retreat and then I also had a reset option on top of that if I ever felt the need to use it rofl.


    "It so easy I just waste hours just spamming stuns till I stun their whole team" sounds like hard boring work to me...I still complete it in less than an hour and I dont use your tactic rofl because it is not optimal it is just the only crutch remaining for people who refuse to think and/or build up teams that consistently do well against the teams you face.

    Although tbh with this bad ai I think a number of teams can consistently win against the majority of teams out there.

    Not really sure what you are trying to say as you seem to go back and forth, but elaborate this "new approach?"

    Do you have a deep bench, full of max-geared 7* heroes so that you can "strategise" and field a different line-up depending on what the opponent's team comp is? If so, good for you. But other than few whales, most don't. Hence, we just send out our best five heroes (which were groomed up with some synergy planned) and try to make the best out of them. If one of them dies, we plug in the next best one.

    So help me understand what this "new approach" is - other than being a constant reload to derive the optimal result. If that is what you consider as "new approach" and enjoy doing it, then fine, so be it.

    As with many other high-level players, I honestly don't mind the new retreat other than the fact that it is incredibly repetitious and boring. My squad cannot die, not because I have an invincible team (far from it), but because I don't put them into that situation, thanks to the reloads without any consequence. If one of my heroes is depleted too much to the point that he/she will be focused on and killed in the next match, then I just reload and start over.

    Finally, I am not suggesting to bring back the old retreat without any tweak. Please make the buffs/debuffs remain so that it is challenging.

    You said it was easier, I stated how that is physically impossible as you went from 2 options to 1'of those options (and the more challenging/time consuming one left). Having 2 different ways out cannot be harder than having one of those taken away. Literally impossible, you gained nothing only lost.

    New approach? I am f2p I have 8? Characters level 61 in purple gear. It is not a "new approach" it is the same approaches that were viable beforehand, without using any retreat.

    As I previously outlined just keeping debuffs/buffs on barely does a thing to stop the complete lameness. All it means is you start with a debuffer/cleanser in your team and swap them out after their first turn, then you go through a dumb sub storm at the end to bring everybodies CDs and health back up to full against their weakest damage healer and maybe a tank if they have one (rare but happens).

    I am not saying that this retreat option is perfect and in this current meta there is not a lot of diversity in what kind of teams you can bring to survive, but I do think it much better than the old one which was clearly just so easily abusable...

    I mean look at quelter, he made this huge guide on subbing and all that and went through his bench etc etc...2 days into this he claims he went through GW with 5 people no resets...NO RESETs...he could have done this from the start, this change has not affected him in any way except suddenly it made him think about his party composition instead of just throwing in any old random character because in the end as long as you retreat and end the fight with a huge sub fest and focus speeds down it made no difference. He could have been doing it with 5 people all along...but hey guess what, if you want to use your bench you can! Just like people were doing unnecessarily beforehand when they could have optimised their party. Only this time, you notice that they don't perform as well and they make it harder or don't work as well as you wished...because how you fight the fight and how you end the fight actually matters.
  • Heronmar
    433 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    obiwan1011 wrote: »
    With all due respect,

    "We want to make GW more challenging" = "You need to have a deeper bench" = Spend more money...

    Every character from 4* onward is easily usable in GWs. Hell I'm using 3 4* as opposed to my 7* to complete GW and I have about 20 characters that are viable for GW (non-cannon fodder). And I'm f2p, people just need to focus on unlocking rather than constantly starring them, every star has a diminishing return for the investment.

    And OT: I absolutely love the GW change, before this I also had the 'protect all' mentality and I'd cycle everything to min/max and would just realise, oh GW is over and my characters are pretty much in the same shape as round 1. With this I have a few characters that end up dead or at half-hp, so scale the difficulty even higher or give us an option to do that, with the upcoming updates.

    And lastly, keep up the good work, this is one of the few freemium games that I enjoy rather than finding tedious.
  • @CG_JohnSalera I think you missed the main theme of this thread. The current GW changes have actually meant LESS use of a range of characters where running 3 or 4 healers with a 1 or 2 DPS guys is the way to go now.

    I completed GW today only using JC/Lumi/Barriss/Sid/Luke and Phasma for the last battle. Ive spent a little money on this game, and im level 53 but in the previous GWs i swapped my whole range of toons in and out...had to think about cooldowns way more and overall it didnt feel like a grind but a refreshing game mode that I found fun. Having the buffs and turn meter carry over with retreat would be the best of both worlds it seems.

    Shame really as GW was the only bit of the game i was enjoying
  • MeetraSurik
    313 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    Heronmar wrote: »
    obiwan1011 wrote: »
    With all due respect,

    "We want to make GW more challenging" = "You need to have a deeper bench" = Spend more money...

    Every character from 4* onward is easily usable in GWs. Hell I'm using 3 4* as opposed to my 7* to complete GW and I have about 20 characters that are viable for GW (non-cannon fodder). And I'm f2p, people just need to focus on unlocking rather than constantly starring them, every star has a diminishing return for the investment.

    None of any of that is true past level 60 with a decent Arena rank.
  • obiwan1011 wrote: »
    Wispsi wrote: »
    obiwan1011 wrote: »
    As a F2P player I managed to beat GW about 20 times. Since the game update I've been slaughtered every time I gave it a go. Only need 10 Lumi shards to get her to 7*...

    So EA, please reduce the difficulty of GW! :expressionless:

    Just reload and try other sequence of actions till you get the optimal result. Do you not realise that CG has actually done you a favour and made GW easier with the infinite reload?

    This does not make sense...previously you could get the same results by closing the game...this was the only game mode in which closing the game works like this, so to say it was unintended is quite a stretch...so no, they have made it harder because now that is the only option you have, instead of being able to freely nullify anything inconvenient and guarantee that your entire roster has full health/CDs at the end of every fight AS WELL as being able to reset and pray for better rng if that somehow isn't enough for you.

    Uh, no.

    Say you tried stunning Lumi with Dooku with the very first move of the match and it didn't work. No big deal. Reload and try it on another. If it didn't work, again, not a problem. Reload and try it on another, say Kylo. Then you got an optimal result which it stunned two heroes! Great. Move on. You then attack an hero with Sid, but he misses. It's okay, relax! Reload, stun Kylo (and another hero) with Dooku and then have Sid attack someone else. If you are finding that you are not getting any luck with the RNG, shuffle your heroes' location and try again. Repeat till you win the match with minimal damage/loss.

    For those who say you get no chance to heal depleted heroes, you just need to reload many times to avoid getting into that situation in the first place.

    There is a reason why some considered force close (the new retreat) as a cheat because there were no consequences. In the old retreat, if Dooku failed to stun Lumi and retreated, he would go first again, but his lightning was consumed and not usable. Hence, there was a cost for retreating/reloading.

    So we should "thank" CG for making GW easier at the expense of making it incredibly boring and tedious.

    I guess there is also a reason why some players are raving about and defending the new retreat because you are almost guaranteed to get those loot.

    In the Challeges, if you lose, you restart. You still don't get any reward until you beat it. There's a reason why some consider things other do a cheat, and has little to do with fairness. It's just whats convenient to them. Maybe people already stated that they strongly prefer the old and another group the new. And both have problems that are serious....like hitting 5 times with a high speed team then retreating, rinse and repeat, or playing 50 times a battle and resetting.

    My fear is that if I could think of these two groups as my kids, I'd give them the only thing that would stop them arguing against each other:

    NO RETREAT AND NO RESET

    This conclusion is obvious...but the ideal sceanrio would have been NOBODY complaining about debuffs or or resets. Everyone was happy, and those that brught all this to the focus (when new content is what we all wanted) .... Well, what can I say but congrats.

  • I still don't understand how this new "Groundhog Day" retreat is better. Before, you had to manage your team as if you were a Basketball coach and the fighters, your players. Depending on the situation, you had to decide who came into the battle, who was benched, whose power was better, whose power was not needed anymore, who needed a rest, who was fresh to keep fighting...

    Now, strategy is turned into trial and error (Aaron admited this in another thread!): Push fight, try to stun Sid with dooku, fail, start again, try to stun lumi, success, hit her again with another toon, she evades, start again, stun lumi, hit someone else instead of lumi... I'm sorry, but this is the complete opposite of strategy. This big nerf to GW has made it more boring.

    With this new system, one day I finished it but today I've left it halfway through because I was bored of it. And I have all my fighters alive with full health. But now, it's just boring. I enjoyed it much better when I could play it like a basketball coach.
  • obiwan1011 wrote: »
    Wispsi wrote: »
    obiwan1011 wrote: »
    As a F2P player I managed to beat GW about 20 times. Since the game update I've been slaughtered every time I gave it a go. Only need 10 Lumi shards to get her to 7*...

    So EA, please reduce the difficulty of GW! :expressionless:

    Just reload and try other sequence of actions till you get the optimal result. Do you not realise that CG has actually done you a favour and made GW easier with the infinite reload?

    This does not make sense...previously you could get the same results by closing the game...this was the only game mode in which closing the game works like this, so to say it was unintended is quite a stretch...so no, they have made it harder because now that is the only option you have, instead of being able to freely nullify anything inconvenient and guarantee that your entire roster has full health/CDs at the end of every fight AS WELL as being able to reset and pray for better rng if that somehow isn't enough for you.

    Uh, no.

    Say you tried stunning Lumi with Dooku with the very first move of the match and it didn't work. No big deal. Reload and try it on another. If it didn't work, again, not a problem. Reload and try it on another, say Kylo. Then you got an optimal result which it stunned two heroes! Great. Move on. You then attack an hero with Sid, but he misses. It's okay, relax! Reload, stun Kylo (and another hero) with Dooku and then have Sid attack someone else. If you are finding that you are not getting any luck with the RNG, shuffle your heroes' location and try again. Repeat till you win the match with minimal damage/loss.

    For those who say you get no chance to heal depleted heroes, you just need to reload many times to avoid getting into that situation in the first place.

    There is a reason why some considered force close (the new retreat) as a cheat because there were no consequences. In the old retreat, if Dooku failed to stun Lumi and retreated, he would go first again, but his lightning was consumed and not usable. Hence, there was a cost for retreating/reloading.

    So we should "thank" CG for making GW easier at the expense of making it incredibly boring and tedious.

    I guess there is also a reason why some players are raving about and defending the new retreat because you are almost guaranteed to get those loot.

    In the Challeges, if you lose, you restart. You still don't get any reward until you beat it. There's a reason why some consider things other do a cheat, and has little to do with fairness. It's just whats convenient to them. Maybe people already stated that they strongly prefer the old and another group the new. And both have problems that are serious....like hitting 5 times with a high speed team then retreating, rinse and repeat, or playing 50 times a battle and resetting.

    My fear is that if I could think of these two groups as my kids, I'd give them the only thing that would stop them arguing against each other:

    NO RETREAT AND NO RESET

    This conclusion is obvious...but the ideal sceanrio would have been NOBODY complaining about debuffs or or resets. Everyone was happy, and those that brught all this to the focus (when new content is what we all wanted) .... Well, what can I say but congrats.

    Oh, certainly. I can see that as a good possibility. In fact, all these feedbacks can potentially be used to take out "exploits" in the game to realise the first part of the below equation:

    "We want to make GW more challenging" = "You need to have a deeper bench" = Spend more money...

    Again, no disrespect intended whatsoever.
  • obiwan1011 wrote: »
    With all due respect,

    "We want to make GW more challenging" = "You need to have a deeper bench" = Spend more money...
    d3gauss wrote: »
    You have to know, as it is your game, how ridiculously difficult you made it to gear and level up more than a handful of characters.

    Gear is also ridiculous, you could run a match 6 or 7 times before you get the piece of green gear required to do one piece of low level gear. Once you are above green it could be a day of refreshes per gear.

    And then you have shards...sometimes you might get 3 or 4 a week.

    To build out your bench / collection spending money is certainly an option. As is being patient. As is being focused and deliberate as to which holes you have in your suite of characters and being hyper-focused on each one in turn. Trying to bring up a bunch of characters at the same time will slow the perceived progress for any one character.
  • Daprosy wrote: »
    @CG_JohnSalera I think you missed the main theme of this thread. The current GW changes have actually meant LESS use of a range of characters where running 3 or 4 healers with a 1 or 2 DPS guys is the way to go now.

    I wouldn't say I missed it. I'd say there are people saying that they're using fewer characters, and other people saying they're using more characters.
  • I enjoy the change for the greater challenge. Retreat allowed for heavy manipulation of battles. I'm not looking at building more teams / toons / builds as a result of the challenge that is put in front of me. Depth is key and that brings value to more heroes that otherwise don't hold up well if you just based the game on PVP. I know I can lose...and that's fun. Easy content gets boring.
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