Droid speed and turn meter with JE

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In the spreadsheet, you can change the speed Droids and Jawas, so that you can ensure that HK will attack before the IG-88.

Try and let me know if it works.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yR9EEJ_QtvUGqZmQFGZH3Fm4cC81T-81PXHZ5PrP1_I/edit?usp=sharing

Replies

  • I've tried this multiple ways using different mod-speed combinations. However once recalibrate goes off for whatever reason even if HK has more speed than 88 or 86 one of them may go first. I'm not sure why unless they all get the 45 speed at the same time and the system reads them all at 100% meter all at once, thus making RNG happen.
    "When the dust settles, the only thing living in this world will be metal."
  • sugarmonster
    204 posts Member
    edited July 2016
    I have gotten mine to work so that the order is JE, HK, 88, 86 everytime.

    JE is 185 base (without droid bonus)
    HK is 126
    88 is 124
    86 is 123

    I have not omegaed recalibrate so not sure if that will change things with the extra 5% turn meter gain.
    Post edited by sugarmonster on
  • JinSaotome wrote: »
    I've tried this multiple ways using different mod-speed combinations. However once recalibrate goes off for whatever reason even if HK has more speed than 88 or 86 one of them may go first. I'm not sure why unless they all get the 45 speed at the same time and the system reads them all at 100% meter all at once, thus making RNG happen.

    They all get 45% turn meter when JE uses recalibrate. This fills turn meter on any toon at 55% meter or more, resulting in a tie between those characters. RNG determines who goes first.
    It's a hard life pickin stones and pullin teats, but sure as gods got sandals, it beats fighting dudes with treasure trails....
  • gobears21
    1265 posts Member
    Doesn't JE give himself +50?
  • Romec245
    9 posts Member
    edited July 2016
    i dont know, but i added +50
  • gobears21
    1265 posts Member
    Romec245 wrote: »
    i dont know, but i added +50

    yeah me too, seems fine...

    I really seriously consider 100% and it's a roll of the dice to be a bug... I know that's "how it's always been done" but it seems like shoddy coding to me.

    IMO it should only be a coin flip if two of the droids have the same speed.... otherwise if both are at 100% then it should be whoever technically got there first (ie. sort by speed).

    It really bugs me that 47 and 86 can have the same speed so coin flip then if there is a Dooku or other counter dude B2 can go before 88 or even that the opponents B2 can go before my toons who are already sitting at 100%.... I would concede arguing this point much quicker than my original point on this though of my own droids.... the faster one at 100% should go first.
  • LastJedi
    3047 posts Member
    edited July 2016
    Help! Something weird is going on with Speed. I don't understand TM at all, anymore.

    My JE is not omega'd yet, so he gives 40% TM.
    His speed in my test matches is 250+, which means he goes before other droid teams JE at speed 200. This is indeed the case,

    My JE goes in tick 4, I presume. Since his adjusted speed is 256. He gives 40% TM to my droids in tick 4. My droids are still not full yet. But in tick 5, they should fill, right? Any droid with speed 120+, 5 ticks is 600 points, and 40% of TM bar is 400 points, right? 600+400 = time to act? So they should get same chance to go as the other team's JE, who also fills in tick 5. I have 3 droids with high enough speed to act in tick 5. So other teams JE should have a 25% chance of going first in tick 5, no?

    In 3 matches in a row, the other team JE goes next, AND all three of his droids go before mine. Every single one, every time. I know that is possible, but the odds say that is like winning the lottery? I did this against 2 different droids teams, one with a lvl 7 recalibrat and speed 200-249, and against another team with an omega Recalibrate, speed 200-249. I don't get this TM stuff, anymore.

    If anyone can explain, please help.

    Also, I read someone else says that speed 128 is the magic number for a droid to fill TM (with a speed 200 JE, I assume). I have played with this number, and indeed, if one of my droids is 128 or higher, it appears (so far) they always go before a droid with 127 or lower. (I did not verify the EXACT number, but it must be this or very close). If I do the TM math, this doesn't make any sense.

    When Recalibrate give 40%/45% TM, does that not equal 400/450 out of 1000 points in the toon's TM bar? Or is it giving plus 45% of whatever TM the toon already has at that time?!?!? If that's the case, it seems like you do not want to get JE's speed over 250.
  • Romec245
    9 posts Member
    edited July 2016
    Use the spreadsheet, enter speed and change special from 45% to 40%
  • I noticed the same problem with Phasma. She gives the turn meter up and some toons end up "tying" and the rng isn't consistent with turn order.
  • My JE is omegaed and he has 200 speed, so the magical number for me is 110. My nebit has 109 speed, which means that he always will act after ig88 and ig86
  • LastJedi
    3047 posts Member
    edited July 2016
    ^ that is how I understand it. 450 from recalibrate. 5 ticks x 110 = 550.
    But none of my experience jives with this. It is infuriating. And why would it be any different if JE acted one tick sooner?

    I don't get the spreadsheet, at all. I believe it may be correct, but I want to understand the math behind it.

    I'm gonna have 45% omega JE in 9 hours. But I don't know how much longer we get free mod swaps! And I want to understand the math/mechanics! @Romec245 , can you please explain the math behind this?
  • LastJedi
    3047 posts Member
    edited July 2016
    @RenanFilipe , if you use Romec245's spreadsheet, 110 is not a static number. When you change Je's speed between 200 an 249, the magic number changes and can be way higher.

    It looks like JE having lower speed is better, if you use the spreadsheet. At JE speed exactly 200, you need only 110 speed to act first. But when you increase speed to 210, say, now you need 116 speed to act first. I don't understand why that is.

    Does not JE do the same thing, no matter what? If he acts in tick 5, how is it different if his own speed is 200 or 210?
  • CptCaveman
    713 posts Member
    edited July 2016
    LastJedi wrote: »
    Help! Something weird is going on with Speed. I don't understand TM at all, anymore.

    My JE is not omega'd yet, so he gives 40% TM.
    His speed in my test matches is 250+, which means he goes before other droid teams JE at speed 200. This is indeed the case,

    My JE goes in tick 4, I presume. Since his adjusted speed is 256. He gives 40% TM to my droids in tick 4. My droids are still not full yet. But in tick 5, they should fill, right? Any droid with speed 120+, 5 ticks is 600 points, and 40% of TM bar is 400 points, right? 600+400 = time to act? So they should get same chance to go as the other team's JE, who also fills in tick 5. I have 3 droids with high enough speed to act in tick 5. So other teams JE should have a 25% chance of going first in tick 5, no?

    In 3 matches in a row, the other team JE goes next, AND all three of his droids go before mine. Every single one, every time. I know that is possible, but the odds say that is like winning the lottery? I did this against 2 different droids teams, one with a lvl 7 recalibrat and speed 200-249, and against another team with an omega Recalibrate, speed 200-249. I don't get this TM stuff, anymore.

    If anyone can explain, please help.

    Also, I read someone else says that speed 128 is the magic number for a droid to fill TM (with a speed 200 JE, I assume). I have played with this number, and indeed, if one of my droids is 128 or higher, it appears (so far) they always go before a droid with 127 or lower. (I did not verify the EXACT number, but it must be this or very close). If I do the TM math, this doesn't make any sense.

    When Recalibrate give 40%/45% TM, does that not equal 400/450 out of 1000 points in the toon's TM bar? Or is it giving plus 45% of whatever TM the toon already has at that time?!?!? If that's the case, it seems like you do not want to get JE's speed over 250



    If your JE is too fast, and doesn't fill the droids turn meter when using recalibrate, it is allowing the enemy JE to go next. Because the enemy JE is slower, or has omegad recalibrate, his use of recalibrate is actually filling his droids turn meter, letting them go before yours do.

    This is why it is important to manage the speed gap between JE and your droids. You want JE to fill turn meter completely, allowing them to go in the same round. Otherwise, the enemy JE can get in between your JE and droids. Either slow your JE down, speed your droids up, or omega JEs recalibrate.




    It's a hard life pickin stones and pullin teats, but sure as gods got sandals, it beats fighting dudes with treasure trails....
  • LastJedi
    3047 posts Member
    edited July 2016
    @CptCaveman , please tell me where I am going off the tracks.

    My wrong assumption:
    My je is so fast he doesn't fill my droids tm. But they fill their TM in the next tick, anyway. So there is no difference other than my JE can't be killed or blocked by the other droid team with slower JE.

    Reality is my droid team sucks because I don't know how TM works. I have always assumed Team instincts Web page about TM is how it works. But that is like 12 patches ago.

    Is there something special about having tm filled to 100% by a special? Vs filling it to 90% one tick sooner, then letting the toons reach 100% with their own speed mechanic? And why for gosh sake does changing je speed from 200 to 210 make any difference in toon order, because per the OP spreadsheet, it does. And I have a suspicion op is right.

    So I don't get why it is bad if enemy je gets between my je and my droids. Or why it should happen 3 out of 3? I figured firingoff recalibrate a tick sooner would put enemy JE in a race with my droids, giving me the advantage. Why does enemy je go first in tick 5, when I have 3 droids that should be full in tick 5?
  • There are a few thing people need to keep in mind. For one thing, don't forget that JEs speed bonus does count for himself and any Jawa/droid ally. So on a full droid/Jawa team, he gets +50 speed. I see a lot of people forget to calculate for that and it confuses them.

    Secondly, speed does not function like it used to when the Team Instinct guide was written. It is still very similar though. There are no longer ticks, or rounds as described in that guide. Speed fills at a constant rate. Think of it as if they moved the decimal place over two places and you can now have partial rounds. So instead of moving at round 7, you can now move at round 6.987.

    I feel I have a very good understanding on how speed works in the game. I have tried to write a new speed guide for the forum, but haven't completed it due to the complexity. You basically have to map out the actions in a timeline, but there are differences in how it works between toons. There is some relativity involved, which gets very complex, very fast.



    It's a hard life pickin stones and pullin teats, but sure as gods got sandals, it beats fighting dudes with treasure trails....
  • @LastJedi in the words of yoda "slow down your JE you must, to fast he is
  • Heina
    110 posts Member
    edited July 2016
    thank you for the spreadsheet!! +1
    SPEED JE unique SPEED + unique % turn meter at START DROID turn meter with JE special 45%
    JE 194 30 224 86,6% 45%

    HK-47 149 66,5% 111,5%
    IG-86 122 54,5% 99,5%
    IG-88 121 54,0% 99,0%

    mine's like these

    so the order is, JE calibrate>HK tm at 111.5 %> IG86 tm at 99.5%>IG88 at 99.0%
    Post edited by Heina on
  • LastJedi
    3047 posts Member
    edited July 2016

    Secondly, speed does not function like it used to when the Team Instinct guide was written. It is still very similar though. There are no longer ticks, or rounds as described in that guide. Speed fills at a constant rate. Think of it as if they moved the decimal place over two places and you can now have partial rounds. So instead of moving at round 7, you can now move at round 6.987.
    Ahh, ok. This explains a lot. Will have to do some calculations and change around my speed mods, pronto.
  • LastJedi wrote: »
    @CptCaveman , please tell me where I am going off the tracks.

    My wrong assumption:
    My je is so fast he doesn't fill my droids tm. But they fill their TM in the next tick, anyway. So there is no difference other than my JE can't be killed or blocked by the other droid team with slower JE.

    Reality is my droid team sucks because I don't know how TM works. I have always assumed Team instincts Web page about TM is how it works. But that is like 12 patches ago.

    Is there something special about having tm filled to 100% by a special? Vs filling it to 90% one tick sooner, then letting the toons reach 100% with their own speed mechanic? And why for gosh sake does changing je speed from 200 to 210 make any difference in toon order, because per the OP spreadsheet, it does. And I have a suspicion op is right.

    So I don't get why it is bad if enemy je gets between my je and my droids. Or why it should happen 3 out of 3? I figured firingoff recalibrate a tick sooner would put enemy JE in a race with my droids, giving me the advantage. Why does enemy je go first in tick 5, when I have 3 droids that should be full in tick 5?

    Where you are going off track is that you are still thinking of it as ticks and that your droids are going one tick after your JE. Instead of thinking of it filling per tick,think of it as 100 ticks. So there actually ends up being a lot of ticks between your JE and droids. I don't think that this is actually how it works, but is an easy way to think of it.

    If your JE is say, 200, he moves at tick 500. Your droids are below 55% tm when u use recalibrate, so their tms don't fill. If they had filled, they would have been moved up to tick 500 with JE. The enemy JE say is 199 speed, he moves at tick 503(rounded). There are three ticks in there for the enemy JE to get to go before your droids. The enemy JE goes at tick 503 and uses recalibrate and fills his droids turm meter completely, moving them up to tick 503.

    This is a simplified way to look at what is happening to you.
    It's a hard life pickin stones and pullin teats, but sure as gods got sandals, it beats fighting dudes with treasure trails....
  • LastJedi
    3047 posts Member
    edited July 2016
    Captain, i thank you.
    @LastJedi in the words of yoda "slow down your JE you must, to fast he is
    Nope he is not too fast. Once I omega him tonight, will be fine. I don't want any of my droids to fill tm when he fires. I want order of my droids to be same. (Well maybe except against clone teams).

    So basically you just round to the nearest hundredth, instead of whole integer.

    At 136 speed, my hk will act in tick 405, provided my je has speed at least 247, which he will with one more Banta gel.. This means my HK will go before any JE with speed of 246 or lower. And he will have a chance to ability block a han or a JE.

    My assassins are still slow. But ig88 will go next. With speed 130, he will act in tick 424.

    Ig86 at speed 128 will act in tick 430, which gives him a chance to recharge hk or 88.

    So if my HK doesn't block je, their assassins will probably go before mine. But hopefully if I don't block JE, I will block or offense down on 88 and or 86.

    I think this will be real good. 7 more hrs and I will find out. Well not that it is hard to beat droids with droids. I am more wondering If this will provide any defense.

    Another way to look at it is as long as your JE IS too fast, you can convert your droids time to act into a speed conversion. At tick 405, my HK with 136 will effectively have 247 First Round Speed. 130 speed equals 236 FRS., And 128 speed = 233 FRS.
    Post edited by LastJedi on
  • Loose_Lee
    2733 posts Member
    I belive JE does add himself for crunch time bonus...and it's just RNG that determines who goes 1st...I took my +30 speed mod off my 86 because hk and 88 still went b4 86...
  • LastJedi
    3047 posts Member
    Rng only decides first to act when it is a special that fill/overfill tm bar, now. Otherwise fastest toon goes first even by a point. I get it now.
  • LastJedi
    3047 posts Member
    edited July 2016
    Funny, I am pulling my qgj to bjild this setup. And two of the other droids teams on my server just put qgj in for rg/magna. I wonder which one of us is one step behind.

    In fact for the last 5 weeks I didn't even use JE. Will be fun to try speed game, and I just might have the fastest je droid team on my shard tonight. Going from 0 to 100mph all at once, here.
  • LastJedi wrote: »
    Rng only decides first to act when it is a special that fill/overfill tm bar, now. Otherwise fastest toon goes first even by a point. I get it now.

    Exactly.

    The other thing to point out that works different from the speed guide now is turn meter reduction. It used to only reduce a percentage of available turn meter. So if a toon had 50% tm and had a 50% reduction skill used on him, it would reduce 50% of the 50%, so he would be left at 25% tm.

    Now, turn meter reduction skills reduce a percentage of total possible, so if a toon has 50% tm, and has a skill used on him that reduces tm by 50%, he will be left at zero. Can't be reduced past zero of course.

    Otherwise, the speed guide is still pretty accurate if you keep in mind the change to rounds/ticks.
    It's a hard life pickin stones and pullin teats, but sure as gods got sandals, it beats fighting dudes with treasure trails....
  • CptCaveman
    713 posts Member
    edited July 2016
    LastJedi wrote: »
    Captain, i thank you.
    @LastJedi in the words of yoda "slow down your JE you must, to fast he is
    Nope he is not too fast. Once I omega him tonight, will be fine. I don't want any of my droids to fill tm when he fires. I want order of my droids to be same. (Well maybe except against clone teams).

    So basically you just round to the nearest hundredth, instead of whole integer.

    At 136 speed, my hk will act in tick 405, provided my je has speed at least 247, which he will with one more Banta gel.. This means my HK will go before any JE with speed of 246 or lower. And he will have a chance to ability block a han or a JE.

    My assassins are still slow. But ig88 will go next. With speed 130, he will act in tick 424.

    Ig86 at speed 128 will act in tick 430, which gives him a chance to recharge hk or 88.

    So if my HK doesn't block je, their assassins will probably go before mine. But hopefully if I don't block JE, I will block or offense down on 88 and or 86.

    I think this will be real good. 7 more hrs and I will find out. Well not that it is hard to beat droids with droids. I am more wondering If this will provide any defense.

    Another way to look at it is as long as your JE IS too fast, you can convert your droids time to act into a speed conversion. At tick 405, my HK with 136 will effectively have 247 First Round Speed. 130 speed equals 236 FRS., And 128 speed = 233 FRS.

    Also, you really do want your droids to fill tm when JE uses recalibrate, this eliminates that gap so the enemy JE can't squeeze his droids in before yours. You pull all of your droids up to the same tick as JE. You just don't want 88 to fill completely. This allows him to go after HK and get the bonus from his debuffs. There is still a possibility of the right speed combo of droids and JE to go before your 88 though. The more you try to control the turn order, the more possibility of the enemy droids wedging in somewhere.

    Mind the gap!!!
    It's a hard life pickin stones and pullin teats, but sure as gods got sandals, it beats fighting dudes with treasure trails....
  • Ugluk
    274 posts Member
    CptCaveman wrote: »
    LastJedi wrote: »
    Captain, i thank you.
    @LastJedi in the words of yoda "slow down your JE you must, to fast he is
    Nope he is not too fast. Once I omega him tonight, will be fine. I don't want any of my droids to fill tm when he fires. I want order of my droids to be same. (Well maybe except against clone teams).

    So basically you just round to the nearest hundredth, instead of whole integer.

    At 136 speed, my hk will act in tick 405, provided my je has speed at least 247, which he will with one more Banta gel.. This means my HK will go before any JE with speed of 246 or lower. And he will have a chance to ability block a han or a JE.

    My assassins are still slow. But ig88 will go next. With speed 130, he will act in tick 424.

    Ig86 at speed 128 will act in tick 430, which gives him a chance to recharge hk or 88.

    So if my HK doesn't block je, their assassins will probably go before mine. But hopefully if I don't block JE, I will block or offense down on 88 and or 86.

    I think this will be real good. 7 more hrs and I will find out. Well not that it is hard to beat droids with droids. I am more wondering If this will provide any defense.

    Another way to look at it is as long as your JE IS too fast, you can convert your droids time to act into a speed conversion. At tick 405, my HK with 136 will effectively have 247 First Round Speed. 130 speed equals 236 FRS., And 128 speed = 233 FRS.

    Also, you really do want your droids to fill tm when JE uses recalibrate, this eliminates that gap so the enemy JE can't squeeze his droids in before yours. You pull all of your droids up to the same tick as JE. You just don't want 88 to fill completely. This allows him to go after HK and get the bonus from his debuffs. There is still a possibility of the right speed combo of droids and JE to go before your 88 though. The more you try to control the turn order, the more possibility of the enemy droids wedging in somewhere.

    Mind the gap!!!

    Not to mention those pesky Rex leads.
  • CptCaveman
    713 posts Member
    edited July 2016
    Ugluk wrote: »
    CptCaveman wrote: »
    LastJedi wrote: »
    Captain, i thank you.
    @LastJedi in the words of yoda "slow down your JE you must, to fast he is
    Nope he is not too fast. Once I omega him tonight, will be fine. I don't want any of my droids to fill tm when he fires. I want order of my droids to be same. (Well maybe except against clone teams).

    So basically you just round to the nearest hundredth, instead of whole integer.

    At 136 speed, my hk will act in tick 405, provided my je has speed at least 247, which he will with one more Banta gel.. This means my HK will go before any JE with speed of 246 or lower. And he will have a chance to ability block a han or a JE.

    My assassins are still slow. But ig88 will go next. With speed 130, he will act in tick 424.

    Ig86 at speed 128 will act in tick 430, which gives him a chance to recharge hk or 88.

    So if my HK doesn't block je, their assassins will probably go before mine. But hopefully if I don't block JE, I will block or offense down on 88 and or 86.

    I think this will be real good. 7 more hrs and I will find out. Well not that it is hard to beat droids with droids. I am more wondering If this will provide any defense.

    Another way to look at it is as long as your JE IS too fast, you can convert your droids time to act into a speed conversion. At tick 405, my HK with 136 will effectively have 247 First Round Speed. 130 speed equals 236 FRS., And 128 speed = 233 FRS.

    Also, you really do want your droids to fill tm when JE uses recalibrate, this eliminates that gap so the enemy JE can't squeeze his droids in before yours. You pull all of your droids up to the same tick as JE. You just don't want 88 to fill completely. This allows him to go after HK and get the bonus from his debuffs. There is still a possibility of the right speed combo of droids and JE to go before your 88 though. The more you try to control the turn order, the more possibility of the enemy droids wedging in somewhere.

    Mind the gap!!!

    Not to mention those pesky Rex leads.

    Yeah, I usually drop JE and sub in RG for certain Rex lead teams anyways. Crit chance up is more of a hinderance than a help. Rex's turm meter gain when suffering crits shuts droids down.
    It's a hard life pickin stones and pullin teats, but sure as gods got sandals, it beats fighting dudes with treasure trails....
  • GuNDaL
    100 posts Member
    Cg should consider UNCAPPING turn meter from 100% @CG_JohnSalera
    Leave the turn meter bar (display) as is, visually shouldn't change in any way, and shouldn't need to be updated at all, but if you simply remove the hard cap of 100 on the variable that stores turn meter and a toon is allowed to surpass this value, this will eliminate any very improper scenarios that often occur, and immediately correct it so that the toon that has the most turn meter above 100 would get to act first.

    another scenario that you see occur in lots is raids, if you have teebo, you hit stealth and sometimes teebo goes, sometimes ee goes, ee should go first everytime since he has 100+whatever he had, and teebo should go after, but this can occur and ee can actually end up hitting the rancor and giving it tm then the rancor ends up going before teebo. which sucks.. cause teebo was at 100 first and should have gotten a chance to hit the rancor.

    Another modification that works well in tandem with the fix above would be to calculate the next character to act BEFORE the current player takes his turn..store this data, then execute the turn. If that turn included the application of turn meter -, you could check if it was the same toon (or if it died) stored for next turn... if it was recalculate next toon; if not, that toons acts regardless of what the previous turn did.

  • GuNDaL wrote: »
    Cg should consider UNCAPPING turn meter from 100% @CG_JohnSalera
    Leave the turn meter bar (display) as is, visually shouldn't change in any way, and shouldn't need to be updated at all, but if you simply remove the hard cap of 100 on the variable that stores turn meter and a toon is allowed to surpass this value, this will eliminate any very improper scenarios that often occur, and immediately correct it so that the toon that has the most turn meter above 100 would get to act first.

    another scenario that you see occur in lots is raids, if you have teebo, you hit stealth and sometimes teebo goes, sometimes ee goes, ee should go first everytime since he has 100+whatever he had, and teebo should go after, but this can occur and ee can actually end up hitting the rancor and giving it tm then the rancor ends up going before teebo. which sucks.. cause teebo was at 100 first and should have gotten a chance to hit the rancor.

    Another modification that works well in tandem with the fix above would be to calculate the next character to act BEFORE the current player takes his turn..store this data, then execute the turn. If that turn included the application of turn meter -, you could check if it was the same toon (or if it died) stored for next turn... if it was recalculate next toon; if not, that toons acts regardless of what the previous turn did.

    Yeah, I wouldn't hold my breath. It took CG 3-4 months to figure out that speed didn't work the way they thought it did.
    It's a hard life pickin stones and pullin teats, but sure as gods got sandals, it beats fighting dudes with treasure trails....
  • Ugluk
    274 posts Member
    CptCaveman wrote: »
    Yeah, I usually drop JE and sub in RG for certain Rex lead teams anyways. Crit chance up is more of a hinderance than a help. Rex's turm meter gain when suffering crits shuts droids down.

    I'll pull Poggle (and RG) out of mothballs for a full clone team (my lineup will be all non-clone Rex led teams, they just don't always stomp them 5-0). If you're going to crit, then crit super hard.
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