CHARACTER STRATEGIES - Poe Dameron, Finn and Rey

Replies

  • Lol, her attacks do a lot more than that :) With Poe and Leia she's absolutely scary good, without at least Poe not so much though.
  • returnoftheewok
    469 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    With his special, and normal. A rough estimate is fine.
  • Poe definitely is a real monster and nearly every opponent in arena (rank 1-25) has him.
    As always i'm a bit late with the trend, so i was looking for a counter and ended up with qui-gon. But i need to know the exact amount of poe's speed to get his taunt off at the right time. Anyone got a max geared poe for lvl 60/61 and can tell me?
  • Poe@60: Max. 138 speed
    Poe@61: Max. 143 speed and no more speedupdates in gear 8 (up to Level 73)
  • Redan wrote: »
    Poe@60: Max. 138 speed
    Poe@61: Max. 143 speed and no more speedupdates in gear 8 (up to Level 73)

    Thanks, that was really helpful. Seems like he will lose a bit of his advantage when everyone reaches 70.


  • Hello Everyone,

    Wanted to delve into Poe a bit deeper to try to sift through the attention and present some objective facts. Info taken from Swgohcantina.com. When discerning when something is OP or underpowered you must look at all pieces to the puzzle.

    Strength/Myth#1 - Poe attacks before anyone else.

    This is one of the biggest foundations/ behind OP reasoning. In theory, if Poe goes first and removes 20% turn meter then his whole team will be able to attack first and net a kill.

    Here is a list of characters that have higher speeds than Poe's 143:
    Count Dooku 161
    Sidious 153
    Leia 152
    Geo Soldier 149
    Gunray 144
    Rebel Scout 143
    Rey 143

    You can use any of these chars to go before Poe in an attempt to secure a kill or soften Poe up for a kill.

    Also, with certain characters as leaders, you may increase multiple chars speed above 143.

    Ackbar gives rebels +25 speed which puts Han above the threshold.

    QGJ gives Jedi +23 speed which puts QGJ, Eeth Koth, Anakin, and Plo Koon over the threshold.

    Tarkin grants empire allies +26 speed which puts Veers, Vader, and StormTrooper all above the threshold.

    Technically there are 15 characters who have a chance to attack before Poe and 4 of them have reliable cc/abilty block to prevent Bravado from going off. Secondly 7 of these characters have high damage abilities to kill Poe before he squeezes that pesky trigger.

    Strength/Myth#2 - Expose is GG

    The expose debuff is strong and is known by four total characters (all of which are resistance). The counter to a debuff is tenacity which increases the likelihood for the victim to resist a debuff. 40 characters have a resist of 40% or more and the rest of them have 20% or more except for Dartb Maul who has a meesly 16% baseline.

    Luke, Aayla, Fisto, and Ackbar have tenacity leader skills that can boost the majority of characters resist to +80%. Fisto and Ackbar are weaker at this but still a strong counter.

    Poes expose has a 65% to land on a character. If the character has 40% resist then that chance is then .65 x .6 = 39% chance to land/ 61% not to land. If you have a tenacity leader, that number drops to .65 x .20 = 13% chance to land/ 87% not to land.

    Poes bravado is somewhat easy to counter with fast characters and easier to counter with a tenacity team.

    Lastly Poe does have a critical weakness and that is is health pool that is mediocre. Poes Hp is #24th out of 71 characters which puts him in the medium range. With 13.9k health at lvl 70 with max gear and shards, Poe can be downed by 3-4 non crit hits avging 3-4K @ 70. Not to mention Geo soldier already crits for 8k at level 61 ;).

    Lastly, Poes strongest feature is his speed which is 143... 143 is slang for I love you (look it up). I (1 letter) love (4 letters) you (3 letters). Poe is just asking for some love! So join me in being Poefessional and love on this little resistance snuggle bug. :)



  • Nice try! But speed doesnt work like that. There is an team instinct guide on speed somewhere on the interwebs, you should read it. And leader speed abilities dont apply the first turn. The expose isnt the worst part, its the turn meter manipulation. If poe moves, uour whole team can take turns.
  • Abyss
    1651 posts Member
    Lol well done
  • Barrok wrote: »
    One thing that was nice about Chewy going last was, (at least on defense), You had some guys take damage and then Chewy taunted. So basically their first two turns didn't matter, because they spread out damage on turn 1, then turn 2 attacked Chewy. That gives you a lot of time on offense to take care of work.

    With POE, it's conceivable that he dies the first turn, since he taunts before almost anyone else has a chance to go yet.

    Though I think I am going to replace Chewy with Poe, I still see some positives for Chewy (though when he gets healing immunity buff, he really sucks)


    Thats the reason i still use chewy. No one dies first turn and his taunt draws fire for 2nd turn. By that time i have taken out one or more of their strongest attackers and then it is a 5v >5
  • Nice try! But speed doesnt work like that. There is an team instinct guide on speed somewhere on the interwebs, you should read it. And leader speed abilities dont apply the first turn. The expose isnt the worst part, its the turn meter manipulation. If poe moves, uour whole team can take turns.
    That's very good info. Thanks for sharing that. I guess you have to counter with a tanks/tenacity team to avoid the expose and tank the damage. Poe is a tank for a bursty team. If you survive the first round, you are likely going to win. That is what I have found from my experience.
  • Crokadorfn wrote: »
    Hello Everyone,

    Wanted to delve into Poe a bit deeper to try to sift through the attention and present some objective facts. Info taken from Swgohcantina.com. When discerning when something is OP or underpowered you must look at all pieces to the puzzle.

    Strength/Myth#1 - Poe attacks before anyone else.

    This is one of the biggest foundations/ behind OP reasoning. In theory, if Poe goes first and removes 20% turn meter then his whole team will be able to attack first and net a kill.

    Here is a list of characters that have higher speeds than Poe's 143:
    Count Dooku 161
    Sidious 153
    Leia 152
    Geo Soldier 149
    Gunray 144
    Rebel Scout 143
    Rey 143



    Strength/Myth#2 - Expose is GG

    Actually that's not how speed works. You can read about it here if you are interested in the truth:
    http://www.teaminstinct.net/speed-and-you-a-team-instinct-special/


    re: #2-- yes, the expose is detrimental, but what also really turns the tides is the turn meter reduction. That can allow the entire enemy team to go before you get to take a single action. With the high-damage state of the game right now, that can result in 2 or even 3 of your characters dead before you ever get to use them.
    Guide to Beating Galactic War from Team Instinct
    TeamInstinct.net -- Community Site and Home to Team Instinct
  • Rheen wrote: »
    Crokadorfn wrote: »
    Hello Everyone,

    Wanted to delve into Poe a bit deeper to try to sift through the attention and present some objective facts. Info taken from Swgohcantina.com. When discerning when something is OP or underpowered you must look at all pieces to the puzzle.

    Strength/Myth#1 - Poe attacks before anyone else.

    This is one of the biggest foundations/ behind OP reasoning. In theory, if Poe goes first and removes 20% turn meter then his whole team will be able to attack first and net a kill.

    Here is a list of characters that have higher speeds than Poe's 143:
    Count Dooku 161
    Sidious 153
    Leia 152
    Geo Soldier 149
    Gunray 144
    Rebel Scout 143
    Rey 143



    Strength/Myth#2 - Expose is GG

    Actually that's not how speed works. You can read about it here if you are interested in the truth:
    http://www.teaminstinct.net/speed-and-you-a-team-instinct-special/


    re: #2-- yes, the expose is detrimental, but what also really turns the tides is the turn meter reduction. That can allow the entire enemy team to go before you get to take a single action. With the high-damage state of the game right now, that can result in 2 or even 3 of your characters dead before you ever get to use them.

    That is true. Poe counters glass cannon teams. If you aren't Tanky enough to sustain through wave one, then you will lose. If you do survive you will most likely win.
  • Skye
    795 posts Member
    Poe's speed isn't really the problem for me... The problem is the taunt does one too many things... expose and the turn meter reduction... One of these in my view needs to go... doesn't matter which, either will make him better to deal with (especially if you don't use Poe yourself)

    Him taunted and exposed my team I can deal with because it gives me a chance to remove the debuffs.

    Him taunted and turn meter.. I can deal with because my team isn't instantly put on defensive because his teammate followed up with an AOE which if an expose had been applied to my team in the abilities original form... I would have taken a bucket load of damage...

    So like I said if his taunt only does two things.. that is fine.. the fact it does three is way way way too much for one ability...

    Poe's speed isn't really a huge issue... as his taunt lasts two turns. and the fact he moves so quick... some of your slower characters would only really be effected by the taunt for one of their turns if Poe isn't defeated by then

    Former crazy person of the guild "Shard Awakens"... *quit game 13th July 2016*

    Game used to be fun when it wasn't a grind... if I wanted a grind I would have went and played old school Everquest or some Korean MMO!
  • You really reached for that critical weakness. At 24 out of 71 he is practically in the top 1/3 of characters. That would mean he either has a low top tier health or a high second tier...thats not a "critical" weakness.

    I fought 5 poe teams today, all in top 10. I lost to only one, whom I beat one of the other 4 times. Does that mean poe is good to go? No.

    He is way out of whack for a tank. There is no other tank that measures up to him. He is way over used. He is effectively barriss, and he will probably end up like barriss.
  • d3gauss wrote: »
    You really reached for that critical weakness. At 24 out of 71 he is practically in the top 1/3 of characters. That would mean he either has a low top tier health or a high second tier...thats not a "critical" weakness.

    I fought 5 poe teams today, all in top 10. I lost to only one, whom I beat one of the other 4 times. Does that mean poe is good to go? No.

    He is way out of whack for a tank. There is no other tank that measures up to him. He is way over used. He is effectively barriss, and he will probably end up like barriss.

    Yikes....
  • OP, that was excellent.
  • Nice observations OP. We posted similar views nearly the same time so I merged mine here:
    Sippycup wrote: »
    1) Poe's turn meter manipulation: the single most controversial ability.
    * Remove 10-25% of enemy turn meter.
    * In order for this to be most effective, works best when enemy is near or at 100% filled. After all, this has zero effect to an enemy at 0 turn meter. But most importantly, the biggest reason this skill is controversial is during round 1 when Poe has the chance to reduce most or all of the opponents turn meter thereby having Poe's team get most or all of the first hits. But of course this only works if Poe is fast, bringing us to his other controversial attribute

    2) Poe, at 143 speed, is a 7 turn toon making him equally as fast as Dooku in round 1 only.
    * 143 barely makes the 7 turn spot, which means Poe has to be fully geared before he can get 143. There are about 4 toons who will reach 143 before an equally geared Poe, meaning Poe is guaranteed to always move 2nd to these toons until Poe can get maxed.
    * If you have 2+ toons who can move before Poe, you don't have to disable/kill Poe. Instead you can burst one of the slow glass cannons that Poe is undoubtedly protecting, and if necessary finish them off after Poe's taunt with an AoE or dispel his taunt. And even if Poe pulls off his taunt, he's only making the few of your slower toons hit second (which they are accustomed to anyway without Poe's help)
    * Poe's speed is most aggravating against teams who have a fast team who built their tactic on getting first opening hits. After all, against a naturely slower team, Poe doesn't really change that team's synergy.
    * For most players, when their Poe finally hits speed 143, the level cap will have already moved (e.g. - level 80 cap) meaning most Poe's will never have a guaranteed shot at round 1.

    And one last note: Even facing equal strength and composition, the team controlled by a player should win most of the time. So if anything humans are OP.
  • Poe gets 143 speed at level 61, so pretty much everyone will get him to that point long before the level 80 cap.

    The main thing is still his speed plus the turn meter reduction. If you fight a team with Poe in the top 10 of many arenas, you will see how it plays out.

    I think they should keep his identity as a really fast taunter, but the turn meter reduction should go.
  • Poe being over used has less to do with him being truly OP than the fact that the other 15+ (don't know the exact number) tanks really can't do their job, with the exceptions of *possibly* 5555, Old Ben and Teebo.

    Tanks lack damage, tankiness, and for a vast majority of them utility needed to be able to compete in the arena. Poe is hands down the best tank available right now, but while he's a true gem, its a lot like being on top of the **** pile; he has virtually no competition.

    The vast majority of tanks need a rework to be even close to viable, or damage across the board has to go down by a significant margin. Whine about Poe all you want, but he's just a solution to the larger problem - nearly every character in this game does too much damage, and the speed stat is incredibly broken with some characters being completely garbage because of it.
  • Unfortunately OP, i wish this was how it played out. As mentioned 143 speed at 61 means Poe has a shot at being first to move. The expose is useful but its the turn meter that is the killer, which results in their entire team moving before you. When you finally get to move, you will likely be 2 dps toons down, with a taunt on poe so you cant even it up. GG

    Sadly, PvP at the top then ends up as a "Which Poe moves first contest". RNG decides the battle before it even begins. That is not desirable PvP meta.

    I think to start, they should knock down Poe to turn 2 speed(142). If the overall meta is balanced a bit more with regard to damage, then it may be ok to leave his turn meter reduction
  • Stryke
    6 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    Crokadorfn wrote: »
    Hello Everyone,

    Wanted to delve into Poe a bit deeper to try to sift through the attention and present some objective facts. Info taken from Swgohcantina.com. When discerning when something is OP or underpowered you must look at all pieces to the puzzle.

    Strength/Myth#1 - Poe attacks before anyone else.

    This is one of the biggest foundations/ behind OP reasoning. In theory, if Poe goes first and removes 20% turn meter then his whole team will be able to attack first and net a kill.

    Here is a list of characters that have higher speeds than Poe's 143:
    Count Dooku 161
    Sidious 153
    Leia 152
    Geo Soldier 149
    Gunray 144
    Rebel Scout 143
    Rey 143

    You can use any of these chars to go before Poe in an attempt to secure a kill or soften Poe up for a kill.

    Also, with certain characters as leaders, you may increase multiple chars speed above 143.

    Ackbar gives rebels +25 speed which puts Han above the threshold.

    QGJ gives Jedi +23 speed which puts QGJ, Eeth Koth, Anakin, and Plo Koon over the threshold.

    Tarkin grants empire allies +26 speed which puts Veers, Vader, and StormTrooper all above the threshold.

    Technically there are 15 characters who have a chance to attack before Poe and 4 of them have reliable cc/abilty block to prevent Bravado from going off. Secondly 7 of these characters have high damage abilities to kill Poe before he squeezes that pesky trigger.

    Strength/Myth#2 - Expose is GG

    The expose debuff is strong and is known by four total characters (all of which are resistance). The counter to a debuff is tenacity which increases the likelihood for the victim to resist a debuff. 40 characters have a resist of 40% or more and the rest of them have 20% or more except for Dartb Maul who has a meesly 16% baseline.

    Luke, Aayla, Fisto, and Ackbar have tenacity leader skills that can boost the majority of characters resist to +80%. Fisto and Ackbar are weaker at this but still a strong counter.

    Poes expose has a 65% to land on a character. If the character has 40% resist then that chance is then .65 x .6 = 39% chance to land/ 61% not to land. If you have a tenacity leader, that number drops to .65 x .20 = 13% chance to land/ 87% not to land.

    Poes bravado is somewhat easy to counter with fast characters and easier to counter with a tenacity team.

    Lastly Poe does have a critical weakness and that is is health pool that is mediocre. Poes Hp is #24th out of 71 characters which puts him in the medium range. With 13.9k health at lvl 70 with max gear and shards, Poe can be downed by 3-4 non crit hits avging 3-4K @ 70. Not to mention Geo soldier already crits for 8k at level 61 ;).

    Lastly, Poes strongest feature is his speed which is 143... 143 is slang for I love you (look it up). I (1 letter) love (4 letters) you (3 letters). Poe is just asking for some love! So join me in being Poefessional and love on this little resistance snuggle bug. :)



    Another problem here is that the leader skills that give you additional speed don't work in the first turn. So you can cut out all those jedi, even qui-gon, as they will never go before Poe.

    Im currently running Dooku, Rey, Qui-gon, Han and Lumi. This works against most of the Poe teams, but its close because Qui-gon and (my) Rey are slower (you need 50! pieces of some material from 7C hard from the light side, good luck farming that by the way). So a bit too often Qui-gon dies without making a move and then Han saves the day. But im Thinking about going for Poe as soon as possible, just to lower the chances that the opponent Poe starts.
    If they would fix that speed bug in the leader skills, that would make Poe less valuable and prevent that every Team on every server in the Top Ten has Poe and a few glass cannons.
    Post edited by Hozilla on
  • The problem with Poe is more that the other characters he is paired with make the extra turns ridiculously strong. I've been seeing Rey, TFP, Poe, Sid, Lumi/QGJ quite a bit. It's extremely difficult to beat, Rey crits, Poe taunts then Rey hits again, TFP hits, Sid hits twice, Lumi hits, by that point I'm down 2 characters and I'm wondering what to do.
  • Raves wrote: »
    The problem with Poe is more that the other characters he is paired with make the extra turns ridiculously strong. I've been seeing Rey, TFP, Poe, Sid, Lumi/QGJ quite a bit. It's extremely difficult to beat, Rey crits, Poe taunts then Rey hits again, TFP hits, Sid hits twice, Lumi hits, by that point I'm down 2 characters and I'm wondering what to do.

    That's really true
  • The OP's OP is OP.
  • Raves wrote: »
    The problem with Poe is more that the other characters he is paired with make the extra turns ridiculously strong. I've been seeing Rey, TFP, Poe, Sid, Lumi/QGJ quite a bit. It's extremely difficult to beat, Rey crits, Poe taunts then Rey hits again, TFP hits, Sid hits twice, Lumi hits, by that point I'm down 2 characters and I'm wondering what to do.

    Retreat button
  • Raves wrote: »
    The problem with Poe is more that the other characters he is paired with make the extra turns ridiculously strong. I've been seeing Rey, TFP, Poe, Sid, Lumi/QGJ quite a bit. It's extremely difficult to beat, Rey crits, Poe taunts then Rey hits again, TFP hits, Sid hits twice, Lumi hits, by that point I'm down 2 characters and I'm wondering what to do.

    This means you are not meant to be in top 20 of arena. Hard truths.
  • Pilot
    470 posts Member
    Nice write up OP, but unfortunately, you are actually wrong on every point.
    1. 143 is the speed barrier for first turn.
    2. Leader speed does not work in Arena (it works in GW).
    3. Potency is a thing too. Poe has 40+
    4. Poe has over 100 tenacity.
    5. He has a lot of hit points, but by the time he uses them, he has already done his turn meter thing.
    6. Even in GW, where leader speed works, Han is a turn 3 hero at level 60, even with Ackbars leader. If Han had 3 more speed, he would reach turn 2 with Ackbars leader, but he comes up short. At 70, with Ackbars leader at 25 speed, Han still comes up short of being round 1 (he needs 1 speed in his stats to get into the same class as Poe).
    "There is no 'try'." - Master Yoda
  • wait... is Poe a good character to have?
  • antooki wrote: »
    wait... is Poe a good character to have?

    Poe is very good if you have high damage heroes to kill enemies in the first turn if your team can't kill 2 or more heroes in one turn poe is not that good.
  • Today for the first time in weeks I was not able to enter top 10 of my server. Its a level 58-60 ish server.

    Roadblock - one rey and a poe, if not mostly a Rey or a Poe. Poe taunts allowing Rey to use both her secondary skills and knocking my 2 toons before till round 2.

    Or Poe fires, Sid AOEs, Phasma does fullisade, boom all health down

    I am almost about to unlock Kylo, led by Phasma along with Sid, Lumi and Poggle. Any suggestions no how I can counter teams with Rey, As you can see I do not have a high DPS team but a team relying on counter assists that will be useful only if all my 5 or at least 4 toons survive 2 rounds - also had a bad day RNG on Phasma counter assists.

    In addition I encountered some Daka and Poes together. I have my Daka at 4*, do top teams in Arena run Daka? - a question to older players.

    This is not a crybaby post but a post where I accept I got defeated fair and square, I want suggestions to make my team better to be competitive in my server.

    NOTE: I have 5k cantina credits, but not sure on whom to spend, crossing fingers FOTP might come in the new update.
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