Guild Management Issues
I know this has been brought up before but I just want to add my 2 cents and vent a little bit. I have a great guild that has people from all over the world and I don't want it to bust up. But they are getting a bit prickly with the current situation. We've grown from a T5 through T7 guild and I'd hate to see people leaving because of the current set up. There are currently 2 problems with guilds... T7 not being hard/long enough and the current management tools for guilds are terrible.
Issue #1 - Mods greatly changed the landscape of player abilities. The rancor raid does not reflect modded toons. We desperately need a T8. If we had a T8 we wouldn't have to come up with ridiculous plans and rules to coordinate a raid and make sure everyone is happy. Give us more rancor to shoot! I don't even care if the rewards are the exact same as T7, we just need a longer raid. As it is now, even when we limit people to 1 run, we have 8-10 people who can throw up 600k-1M+ in one run. It is impossible to control damage and extend these raid (not to mention I have no way of checking if everyone is abiding by the 1 turn rule). But besides that, the 1 turn rule sucks!! The Raids are really my favorite part of the game yet we are at the point where we can't really play it because we have to limit damage to get everyone in. So we wind up literally doing one run every 2-3 days which last 5 minutes, and collect rewards. That is terrible! You may as well make the raid sim-able. I spent weeks/months building up my Teebo and I got to use him twice before damage started getting out of control and had to bench him. Awesome.
Issue #2 - We need better management tools. The only option to manage raids is to create an attack plan like everyone does only 1 run, or maybe the good old sacrifice a toon plan to get everyone in. Problem is I have no way of verifying how many runs people have done and the chat function is awful. There is also no place to post a note or no way to message my team (and not that tiny box in the management screen). I post something in chat and it is lost in 10 minutes. Also, 1/3 of my guild doesn't speak English. So communication is a bit of a problem. I don't for a second like the idea of a 3rd party chat app. There is no reason why a game should tell you to go to a completely different app to handle playing the game! That's absurd. There NEEDS to be a way to communicate better with the rest of the guild. Give me the option of sending everyone a note or give me a sticky note on the leader board. Something, anything. We can work through our language barrier if I had a way to directly communicate with everyone.
When it comes down to it, this is a game. You should not have to coordinate between multiple apps to play the game. You shouldn't have to come up with crazy rules like sacrifice one toon and wait 24 hours before actually playing, or requiring screen shots. There are ways to address these issues and they are ignored leaving the players to come up with work around solutions. I really enjoy playing with guys all over the world. We've had some fun and interesting conversations. But because of the current set up, certain guys are missing raids and missing rewards and about to leave. I'd like to keep my guild together for the next raid which I anticipate will be much harder.
Maybe it is my own failure as a guild leader for not being a **** and implementing stricter rules but is that what a game should be? Again, this is a game not a business I am running. We went from having a super chill guild that everyone enjoyed to people getting **** at each other for doing too much damage or closing raids too soon.
I guess the sacrifice the 1 one toon and wait 24 hours is the most effective solution but do you hear how dumb that sounds? Because of a flaw in the game, players have to wait 24 hours to actually play a part of the game each time? And even then, because of the lack of communication tools, we've tried these plans before and several people did not know or follow the plan. (Cue the 'just kick them out!' crowd). All of this could be avoided with an update to the current raid/raid tools.
OK rant over. I know other guilds have gotten around these issues in various ways but I think it is terrible it is left up to us to manage a plan to limit everyone's play when all we want to do it play!
Issue #1 - Mods greatly changed the landscape of player abilities. The rancor raid does not reflect modded toons. We desperately need a T8. If we had a T8 we wouldn't have to come up with ridiculous plans and rules to coordinate a raid and make sure everyone is happy. Give us more rancor to shoot! I don't even care if the rewards are the exact same as T7, we just need a longer raid. As it is now, even when we limit people to 1 run, we have 8-10 people who can throw up 600k-1M+ in one run. It is impossible to control damage and extend these raid (not to mention I have no way of checking if everyone is abiding by the 1 turn rule). But besides that, the 1 turn rule sucks!! The Raids are really my favorite part of the game yet we are at the point where we can't really play it because we have to limit damage to get everyone in. So we wind up literally doing one run every 2-3 days which last 5 minutes, and collect rewards. That is terrible! You may as well make the raid sim-able. I spent weeks/months building up my Teebo and I got to use him twice before damage started getting out of control and had to bench him. Awesome.
Issue #2 - We need better management tools. The only option to manage raids is to create an attack plan like everyone does only 1 run, or maybe the good old sacrifice a toon plan to get everyone in. Problem is I have no way of verifying how many runs people have done and the chat function is awful. There is also no place to post a note or no way to message my team (and not that tiny box in the management screen). I post something in chat and it is lost in 10 minutes. Also, 1/3 of my guild doesn't speak English. So communication is a bit of a problem. I don't for a second like the idea of a 3rd party chat app. There is no reason why a game should tell you to go to a completely different app to handle playing the game! That's absurd. There NEEDS to be a way to communicate better with the rest of the guild. Give me the option of sending everyone a note or give me a sticky note on the leader board. Something, anything. We can work through our language barrier if I had a way to directly communicate with everyone.
When it comes down to it, this is a game. You should not have to coordinate between multiple apps to play the game. You shouldn't have to come up with crazy rules like sacrifice one toon and wait 24 hours before actually playing, or requiring screen shots. There are ways to address these issues and they are ignored leaving the players to come up with work around solutions. I really enjoy playing with guys all over the world. We've had some fun and interesting conversations. But because of the current set up, certain guys are missing raids and missing rewards and about to leave. I'd like to keep my guild together for the next raid which I anticipate will be much harder.
Maybe it is my own failure as a guild leader for not being a **** and implementing stricter rules but is that what a game should be? Again, this is a game not a business I am running. We went from having a super chill guild that everyone enjoyed to people getting **** at each other for doing too much damage or closing raids too soon.
I guess the sacrifice the 1 one toon and wait 24 hours is the most effective solution but do you hear how dumb that sounds? Because of a flaw in the game, players have to wait 24 hours to actually play a part of the game each time? And even then, because of the lack of communication tools, we've tried these plans before and several people did not know or follow the plan. (Cue the 'just kick them out!' crowd). All of this could be avoided with an update to the current raid/raid tools.
OK rant over. I know other guilds have gotten around these issues in various ways but I think it is terrible it is left up to us to manage a plan to limit everyone's play when all we want to do it play!
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Why ?? vast majority of T7 guilds are in this situation
Since the T7 is 2 days, what they should do is have tiers by time.
e.g. first 12 hours, P1, second 12 hours P2, etc.
Refresh the roster every 12 hours and adjust the difficulty since people will be able to throw more toons at it. Once the tier is done, everyone can continue doing damage in it so it isn't over in 5 minutes.
That way, the raid isn't over in 5 minutes. You actually have 4 sets of attempts to play the raid and can do it at your leisure. There is still competition as people are trying to get the highest score possible and you still need to work together to do enough damage to pass each tier.
Yeah, at some point, guilds become so strong that unless you implement stringent rules (ie. 1 attack per so many hrs or damage caps on attack runs) then it will result in not all the guild members getting rewards.
Our guild just had our first Tier 7 raid where we actually finished the raid with everyone only getting 1 attack, and a couple people ended up missing on raid rewards because they thought they had longer time to attack because we never have finished the raid in 1 attack before.
And we aren't even a full guild (have 41 members).
I think the long term solution is to simply put in a harder raid, which obviously is coming soon.
But putting tools in the game would be helpful because I'm sure there are guilds like ours which our like ours that clear Tier 7 raids easily but we still need to do Tier 7 for quite some time more in order for us all to get Han Solo unlocked and leveled up.
Limit each player to one run
Limit each player to one run per phase
Limit each player to X damage
Limit each player to X damage per phase
Also how 'bout the raid remains open with the Rancor at a sliver of health for at least 24 hours with a button to Complete the raid early if the guild leader wishes. Give everyone a chance to get in and do some damage before the raid completes.
Adding some tools for the guild leader could avoid some of the hassle with communications and enforcing rules.
So instead of rewards by place, why not rewards are based on damage done? Do minimal damage, you get lumped in at the bottom tier. Doing enough to provide your share of completing the raid earns much better rewards, then damage above and beyond that earns better and better rewards for at a few more tiers. Then you are only competing against yourself and what you can dish out.
There would need to be some balancing and tweaking to be perfectly fair. Not every phase has the same damage potential. And there would need to be a way to keep the raid alive long enough that everyone has a shot.
There should be no limit. FFA is the best solution although your limit then becomes "time".
Basically I think this has been an issue for a while and it has only gotten worse as people level up. Since the new raid is coming, I'd like to keep everyone together.
I think this has been an side effect of the mods and an oversight by the devs on how it would impact various parts of the game. In other areas (GW, Arena), you are competing against other modded toons. LS/DS nodes are just sim fodder. But the raid was left unchanged/unaddressed.
They probably though the new raid would be ready by now and this wouldn't be as much of an issue. But since it is not ready, some kind of update to this raid or the tools would be helpful.
1) We need better raid managment tools for our guilds to enable a fair raid for all members, especially at T7.
2) Let us change our guild name!! (I took over mine as GM and the name is Wampa-poop).
3) Add officer chat as an additional chat to guild chat.
4) Allow us to make notations in-game about members as GMs or officers for our reference.
Tyvm..GG..may the force be with you...
If you are top 3 rank in the raid, you are not allowed to atk phase 1 next raid. Allows others to get rank up.
We have a whatsapp group but mainly use it to chat offline and strategize for non raid stuff. Complicating the game is not good. Too many rules is stupid.
In my guild, we have one guy who can solo p1, then allow one team per member for first 2 hours. 2nd teams can go in after 2 hours with a two team max for first 12 hours of raid. Then free for all to finish what's left. I get 40-45 member participation with this setup. Everyone is cool with this setup. We compete within the 2 teams allowed.
It would be very helpful if there was a counter that showed how many attempts were made by each player, but for now we use an honor system and I monitor scores for compliance. If I see someone cheating this setup, he is banned from future raids.
Much of this is voluntary by the members of the guild. It is impossible under the current setup to babysit each member. I simply ask that everyone participates honorably.
If you have a difficult time fitting everyone in the T7 damage window, why not split the guild and give that a go? You can still keep your guild in tact in the external chat, and you will have greater flexibility and more control since you won't have to crush people with the tough rules to cram everyone into one T7.
You could even do a "B" guild and knock them down to T6 until they are ready for T7.
You need to deal with what the game has put before you instead of building up the frustration and "venting" that the raid needs more Tiers.
Also, if we ever get the new raid, it is tuned for mods so you may just have to ride out the current raid until we get to the tank.
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/42201/anyone-else-find-raid-timing-inconvenient-the-way-its-set-up
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/45047/raiding-is-a-total-mess-and-without-it-theres-no-point-playing
Those are posts over a month prior to the release of mods in which guilds are finishing T7 raids in less than half an hour. We have since come up with ways to extend that time, though not all are created equal (we have a zero damage period and a single hit limit for a period of time and it works well).
I think everyone is dismissing out of hand that this was done on purpose, to force us to strategize and coordinate as opposed to simply face rolling. T1-T6 is really just a matter of face rolling. You have unlimited time, and get a character refresh every day. Very little thought is required at this stage. You hit T7, and you actually have to work together for the good of the guild (something everyone agrees is a good thing, in case you haven't noticed).
Ultimately, I think we need better reporting, but I am very much against a T8 and do not think setting rules in game should be a thing. All I need is to see how many attacks a person took during the raid, preferably with a damage count for each attack. Then I will simply boot anyone that does not follow our rules.
It should not be possible to outgrow the system.
And while this problem existed before mods, there were only a few guild in that boat. Since mods, nearly every T7 guild is in this boat now. So maybe the problem was not cause by mods but mods certainly accelerated it.
T8 would be a complete waste of developer time. It wouldn't be as easy as copy/paste and add more hp or whatever. It would be bad because it goes complete against their own naming schemes (not a coincidence there are 7* and 7 tiers). It would be bad because it adds nothing of value. You want to play more? Well, let the developers work on actual new content, like a new raid (which maybe will function such that you cannot finish a t7 in 10 minutes), or ships, or this pvp tournament thing, or anything but whatever bugs will be introduced with a higher tier of the Rancor for no reason other than you don't like to plan and coordinate the raid.
There were only a few in the boat simply because of time. We would still get to where we are without mods.
So you don't want a T8 because you don't want the developers to work? Why wouldn't it be as easy as adding more HP to the stages? Seriously, just double up the HP. We would still finish raids but have to work much harder/longer to do it. Who cares about naming schemes? And it does add value... play time! Right now we have a mode that limits how much you can play and that is my biggest beef more than the coordination (and I'm not talking about timer or turn limits, which is intended to limit play). It's not that I don't want to coordinate (although in my guild it is slightly difficult), even with coordination there is still way too limited amount of play. Right now the work around is telling people to NOT play the game. That is illogical.
And where is this new content? How long has the current raid been out without any update whatsoever to guilds or raids? They could easily put out a quick update to T7 doubling the HP without spending weeks in design. Explain to me why this would crush the developers so much.
OK, so the two guild idea just means literally breaking into two. There is no crossover or teamwork between the two, just splitting up recruiting lower level players to fill out the ranks? That's an option but as soon as we do that, I have a feeling the new raid will come out requiring all the big guns we can get.
Ahahahaha... Wampa Poop! I almost choked on my sandwich lol. I wouldn't change that! Although I agree with you on the name change idea. I also inherited my guild and it is named Vikings of Droids. What does that even mean??
There have been so many posts on this, as it stand this thread, like the one I posted in will be moved to a very unseen part of forms, UI.
The fixes can't be that hard.
New content is coming, but the controls and chat issues are paramount.
As u said, I've said, in this day and age, you shouldn't have to be relying on a third party chat app to fix your own chat issues.
I do want them to work, but on things that add actual value. Like the new raid, and ships, and the pvp tournament thing, and events. Coding something is never as simple as copy/paste. Something will inevitably go wrong, and people will be mad, and the forum will be on fire, and all because a small percentage of the population is annoyed that they have to think before attacking.
I don't know if you remember T6 or not, but it was awful. You had to spend hours doing the same thing over and over and over. There is no point to adding "play time" just for the sake of adding it. And I still disagree that it is a work around. It was done on purpose to force us to work together.
Since raids have come out we have had several new characters, mods, new events, a credit crunch fix, and probably some other stuff. And the PVP tournament is rolling out already (as evidenced by the various messages). And ships will be coming this year. And a new raid at some point. All of those things require time. If the devs are forced to spend time on something as silly as a new Pit tier, it takes away from those things, and any number of other things they are working on that we are unaware of.
And really, until you see their code and their internal architecture, you cannot say that it would be easy to "just" add a new tier.
Definitely hoping we can get more tools like you're suggesting, but until then, do consider some formats and making sure everyone is onboard. You could make a guild thread in the Guild section with your raid rules and make sure everyone reads it. You could use a third-party chat app. You can even do it strictly with guild chat (though that's harder to track).
If you'd like to pick my brain more, you can always PM me.
As for raids, they devs have said the next raid will be weighted for mods. So, there is hope. Most things takes time to implement, and I'm sure from the myriad of threads on the issue that they are aware of our desires. A time will come.
Until then, you can do it! Hard work is hard, but the rewards are better than easy work.
If to much damage: Then remove some of them and bring in weaker players.
If not getting a turn: Post set raid days/times that try to accommodate the majority, if they miss it they miss it.
Why should someone be penalized for having a good team and able to make the raid at the start time. Everyone has the same chance at making their teams better and using them for maximum affect/dmg points.
you'll never make everyone (or the lazy) happy....My .02 :-)
Well, we'll agree to disagree. I don't think adding a new tier would involve very much coding at all other than changing the interface where you open the raids to add a new T8 window. Otherwise the raid already exists. You are simply altering the code to double up the HP on T7 and done. That shouldn't create any bugs since the current raid is 100% functional. I'm not asking for new attacks or new rancor cool downs or anything like that. It shouldn't take much longer than a few days to implement. I don't think that would have any negative impact on developing new content other than tying up a developer for a day or two (when they have 100's of developers).
And I know the coordination is supposed to be part of T7 but it is supposed to be coordinating on how to finish the raid. Right now we are coordinating on how to NOT finish the raid. In concept that is just silly.
The events are great but the make them last for 3 days and some are 'extremely rare'. This would be every day content that is replayable. Which the game is sorely lacking. What do you do every day in this game? 5 arena attempts, 12 GW nodes, and sim sim sim sim sim. The only part that was somewhat fun because you could use all kinds of toons was the raid.
Now if they roll out new content next week, then I'll shut up. But it's been like this for a few months now. I'm not holding my breath for anything new at this point.
I mean, they are literally rolling it out already. Have you not gotten the "secret transmissions"? Or read last week's dev update?
I'd like to see what it is before I get all giddy about it. Kind of like the events. They are cool.... for 2 days/a week. We'll see what this new PvP is all about. Sounds like it will be cool but we shall see. It also doesn't mean they shouldn't do something about terrible guild tools.
They also showed us a video of the new raid what, 2 months ago now? Still waiting on that one.