Tank takedown ( Merged thread)

Replies

  • The raid is not broken. This is the raid we are given for the new xp cap.
    If all guilds could clear the new raid at level 81 in 1 day how fun is it gonna be when we are all level 85 with greater gear levels.
    As fun as it is to raid T7 rancor now with 50 % of guild members able to solo it.

    Sure there is a few top guilds that are loaded with whales that have +30 chars with G10 gear and optimal mods equipped. But right now there is very few guilds who have killed it.

    Personally i am in a more casual guild. First day we could only remove 50 % of phase 1 in T6.
    I think it is great that we haven been given a real challenge that we are not gonna be able to face roll in 2 days.
  • If you post damage in a raid, and leave the guild, do you still get raid rewards?
    Leader and co-founder of BHG
  • darkensoul
    1309 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    Unfortunately with the rancor raid being so poorly balanced it has allowed guilds to get complacent, thus weakening them as a whole. We have been a top 50 guild for awhile and now finding the new heroic raid very challenging for our weaker members.

    Personally this new raid has revitalized my interest in the game. It was getting so stale. We do have a lot of work to do to get our guild ready for heroic are in full swing.

    We are also recruiting folks with strong roster depth, ability to follow orders and a friendly disposition. Feel free to PM me for details.
  • Winstar
    2429 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    Cool, I guess most of you thought you could just jump in and destroy the AAT at will.
  • scuba
    14034 posts Member
    Maraxus wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    I am sure it won't happen but I would like to see one of the guilds that completed a heroic tank try the normal, just to get a gauge of time frame.

    Unfortunately for obvious reasons I don't think someone that can beat heroic would do normal.

    That Being said, I agree there should either be a nerf of normal, or another easier mode

    So my guess is instead of sending all the negative vibes , the community should agree to make a post to dev asking for an easy mode of the raid. I'm sure when dev see the completion rate of normal, they will not hesitate to either make it easier or deliver and easier mode.

    Yup, that is why I said I don't think it will ever happen.

    I am good either way the Dev's will do as they please and as you said may, after looking at the completion rate say OK maybe that was on an extreme. I will chug along if the Raid takes 3 days to complete or 4 weeks to complete it is only a game.

    My excitement level for this "new content" has plummeted for sure though.

    As far as making a post to the dev... Well we have a mega thread now so anything related to the "difficulty" of the Raid, I think it is more monotony, will be merged here.
  • medetec
    1571 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    I guess my issue with the raid is the on normal even with excellent squads its going to take more time to clear that it does to generate coins to launch it, so you'll also be losing coins to overcap. I don't much care for the design that heroic is short (with restrictions) and normal is just a massive slog. Its the same problem from the Rancor raid.

    Couldn't they have the same HP, and heroic just have the additional restrictions and higher enemy non-hp stats? This wouldn't change the difficulty, just the amount of time it takes to clear.
  • Our guild is getting rather demoralised regarding the normal raid; we are active and reasonably geared etc., but it looks like it is gonna take 3 days just to clear p1. I can appreciate it needs to be a challenge, but progress is slow to the point of futility; atm it is like trying to smash up stonehenge with a toffee hammer.
  • ... It feels like attacking an actual tank with match sticks (or a herring perhaps).

    Not to belittle the achievement of whoever cleared the thing on Heroic level, but it took them 1-2 hours, easy peasy. All the guilds who opted for the "Normal" mode have gotten themselves in the real week-long marathon of a challenge it will be to take down that monster a fraction of a percent of health at a time.

    At the 2 full refresh mark, we're past P1 (yay!!!), lost somewhere in the (early) middle of P2. And if the reports from the Heroic one hold true in Normal, P3 and P4 are worse (i.e. longer?)

    So the real question... Who, or rather When, will we see the World-first marathon champion, the defeater of the Tank in "Normal" mode? My bet is one whole week, so on Friday.
    ☮ Consular ☮ - https://swgoh.gg/u/tiggus/
  • there already are a couple of guild that cleared normal aat raid. look it up. Some of them cleared it twice
  • Normal does seem harder then heroic yeah. Looks like it's a slap in the face to guild who don't have enough whales. But in a while everyone can do heroic anyways because they hit level 85
  • Naw
    969 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    Ironically this is exactly how Rancor raid worked. As T6 did take a reset for us we figured T7 was beyond our reach, so did not try it. Then one day we decided to give it a go and surprise surprise T7 went down in 2 hours.

    Maybe we should abandon the travesty that is "normal" mode (you did play test it, yes?? But with what??) and try Heroic instead?

    May be too late, some people already lost interest in 2 days. Once again, well done with the raid!

    Edit: On top of that the normal rewards are a joke.

    My guess is that nothing will be done about this, it probably works as intended even when it doesn't make any sense.
  • pargame
    989 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    I am starting to think that new raid is exactly how it should be.
    I know that I will receive many not so kind replies, but here are my thoughts (sorry for my English-not native)
    I am F2P lvl81 and play for about 6 months. If you look at my rooster and look at rooster of another 81lvl F2P player who is playing for year - there will be difference and that is how it should be. He will have deeper and better geared rooster. if tank raid was easier or it has lower tiers this difference will drastically decrease because I can have access to two sources of gear (raids) and players that are 70lvl will have our rooster at point they reach 80lvl. I think if there are lower tiers this will change the way of progress till reach lvl 80 - and this should not happen. new raid is intended to help just lvl 80 to reach lvl85 get new gear - you know new gear slots are not too much. Some players are worry that they will loose tickets - yes and that is how it should be - don't forget that these tickets come for free - no need of additional actions - so tickets will be there when you need it

    EDIT: there are people who made 2M damage - obviously it is not that hard
  • I would say I'm surprised but I'm not really. The new raid was always going to be an 'incentive' for players to spend more money but they have pushed it a bit too far I think judging by the majority of the comments in this thread and my own experience with the raid (it's going to take my guild about 6-8 weeks to complete the 'normal' raid under the current set-up!)

    The only way this is going to get fixed is if enough of us stop spending and revenue drops. The whales will continue to drop their cash no matter what but the dolphins/porpoises should think about restricting their spending until the new raid is re-balanced.
  • Naw
    969 posts Member
    MosDefJeff wrote: »
    It's very hard and I'm fine with it. Well done, EA.

    Our concept of hard is different, then. Hard does not equal to "let's give the boss 10 gazillion hps lol". You realize that eventually 50 members can ditch out 30m damage in total at GG. That's not hard, that's again lazy design.

    Normal has been again overcompensated with an absurd amount of health.
    Extremely difficult and I appreciate the challengee

    Good for you then. Maybe triple health would make it even more challenging then?

    I used to play World of Warcraft where our targets were world's firsts. Those were interesting and challenging, what we have here is not that. Too much health does not make it a challenge but an exercise in frustration, that you get to repeat until you feel sick. Add on that the fact that rewards in normal mode are a joke!

    This may sound like a whine fest to some, but think about it. Want to bet that top guilds can't complete normal in 1 day:

    1) Too much health
    2) Only 5 teams per day
    3) Rewards??????

    Please, fix this garbage.
  • Briglja wrote: »
    there already are a couple of guild that cleared normal aat raid. look it up. Some of them cleared it twice

    Hmmm I see that, but I honestly can't believe it's legit. Coming out of nowhere and doing it in 1 day where most other guilds will take 6 or 7?? Smells fishy.

    Since we're limited to 5 teams a day, the depth of roster doesn't make any difference here, as long as you have the 25 toons you need to have, and well equipped.
    ☮ Consular ☮ - https://swgoh.gg/u/tiggus/
  • Love the new raid!

    Maybe EA should have made some harsh minimum requirements to start the raid so that those who are still in the early stages of the game wouldn't complain that they are not able to breeze through endgame content.
  • Klocko
    1017 posts Member
    No. Your damage still counts, but you don't get the rewards.
  • No_Try
    4051 posts Member
    On the guilds that completed it, I believe that's done with cheating, convince me otherwise. On the basic math of the whole tier 6 thing, I guess they didn't bother to put it down. With 30k accumulation rate and the raid taking an optimistic 6 days.... (1-2-2-1 days for phases)
  • After abandoning the heroic at about 80% left of P3, we've opened a normal and have just about made it to P3 after 1 reset. We are now looking to merge with another guild to get MC1 (our first guild) strong enough to do a heroic. If you're interested, please PM me.
  • Tronixi
    58 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    I can see what many are trying to say. Basically those who point out that indeed normal difficulty new raid takes too long to complete. As a guild you will be wasting raid tickets in many cases as much as for one week worth of tickets. This is not acceptable. Sure new raid needed to be hard enough to avoid soloing as Rancor but DO NOT compare these two raids and make statement that AAT raid is ok!

    Even at level 85 and fully geared it still will take too long to complete normal mode AAT raid. Remember normal is suppose to encourage guilds to play game and progress not get frustrated doing one raid for a week. If we had many tiers like with Rancor then sure every guild could pick difficulty they can finish so they wont waste raid tickets. As it is now you have no choice but to be stuck with normal mode for many months and as a guild wont also get some rewards as whale guilds.
    This will hurt you in long run in arena - mark my words this is only going to be soon most discussed here...

  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    Love the new raid!

    Maybe EA should have made some harsh minimum requirements to start the raid so that those who are still in the early stages of the game wouldn't complain that they are not able to breeze through endgame content.

    completing the raid in 10 days > not being able to participate at all

    Personally i liked the rancor raid all the way up to the point when we needed to have damage control. I'm hoping/guessing it will be the same with this raid.
    shampoo wrote: »
    How can it be too hard on normal mode? Your characters will refresh. It'll just take some time and patience to be able to beat it. People are just too used to the loot piñata the rancor is

    I totally agree with your second statement. However, normal mode is taking way too long for most guilds currently, wich might mean it is in fact too hard. This could be temporary and once the most effective strategies/tactics are starting to develop it might not be too hard afterall. Time will tell. I remember it took the "best" players a while before they were able to solo phase 1 of the rancor raid, so i don't expect the damage output to improve alot very fast in the AAT raid. In the meanwhile it sure feels like chipping away at a concrete wall with a toothbrush.
    I also see guilds that aren't even doing herioc rancor raids, for those guilds clearing the AAT raid will be a very, and i mean very long term goal. But should the game really cater to those guilds? Personally i rather have something to strive for than easy content beatable by everyone.
    ---
    Remember the yoda event? Asking for nerfs too quickly might backfire down the line. Give it some time to decide whether the new raid is too difficult or not.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Shimrra
    109 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    I'm level 81 close to 82, 3 toons gear 11, 16 toons gear 10 and 5 gear 9. I'm the top player of my guild.
    The max damage i can do in a day on the normal raid is 1M on P1. I'll be ok with that if the amount of life of the raid wasn't so high ! I've read 200M for the normal mode ! Are you serious ? Really ? Where is the fun when you have to fight against grievous 4 or 5 days ? Then i suppose it will take 5 or 6 days for each phases.

    Difficulty is appreciate but maybe EA can think about the largest majority of the players that are not as well equiped as TI or TS. We want fun too. Most of us pay for that ! What does EA think about with this ? Most of players are frustrated not because it's difficult for them, but because there's no fun with this raid ! If you don't want to nerf normal tier ok then add an easy one that be cleared by your base player in few days cause for most of the guilds, it will take some weeks with the actual one to clear one raid.

    And maybe EA could correct some buggs on this raid too, the grievous laugh that comes at every turns he had seems to be a little bit too much ! Where are his cooldown ? Seems that most of the time he can use every of his abilities. The rage mod is alsoo too early i think in regard of the amount of life for the P1.

    In conclusion if EA don't want a large majority of people to be really disapointed there's some work to do, on the paper this raid was a very good idea, animations are fun (almost for the P1 that is the only phase i can see at the moment) but maybe there's a little rework to do in order to be appreciate for the large majority of the players.

    And also a big congratulation for the guilds that can clear it in normal and heroic mode, really a nice job guys !
  • Maraxus wrote: »
    @lvl 85 this raid will seem much easier guys... Maybe just need a bit of patience for now...

    Makes no sense at all for them to make a raid that the entire game community can finish one week later...!

    It's a RAID, not the end of the game. Of course the entire community should be able to finish it in a week... and then again the next werk and so on. A raid is meant to continuously be beat, like the rancor or galactic war. If you beat a raid, that's not the end of the game. Remember when they updated the galactic war to make it impossible to complete? Then they seemingly have backed off, guessing because it wasn't fun for most people anymore. You'd think they'd learn at some point, but they don't. They keep doing the same thing as if they fogot any of the previous lessons. This is a raid. A raid should be able to be beaten by any guild within a week... continuously. If they want to build a side-game for the 50 whales dumping money on them, maybe they could create a separate app "Galaxy of Bank Accounts" and make it as hard as they can for those 50. For the rest of us, give us raids that we can complete in 2-5 days. The lack of brain activity in the dev team, when it comes to customers, is astounding. Do a focus group or full-blown research study of gamers and ask them what they consider too easy for a raid, too hard for a raid, and what would be perfect. I guarantee no gamer believes a 5-day raid is good. But this one? On par for around 6 months with my 25, level 80 characters and my whole guildful of others. Not even in the galaxy of bad. It is SO over the top it is hard to imagine anyone on the dev team could be that out-of-touch with gaming.
  • this difficulty is unintelligible. i'm in a top 40 guild that prob can't even beat the T6. come on. this makes no sense. you can't strangle us with credits and gear and expect us to compete in this thing without having an all kraken guild. cash grab. no respect.

    This is how 99% feel. The 1% doesn't care, and it is not in their own egos' best interest to have others able to compete; albeit not understood that we're looking for different levels of play for different players. So they will feign empathy while chastising you ever so gently for not having purchased as many crystals as they did, as if it took anything more than time and money to achieve. I mean, they did buy a great squad, they are the best, with the most time and money, the greastest thing on earth, the one thing where... whoa, whoa, whoa... I digress. This is not about the 1% who think it is ok. It's about the 99% who want a fun and challenging game. Developers... you out there? Yoo hoo! Hello?
  • Hello,

    Does anyone think Eeth Koth is worth the gearing for the new raid (Heroic)? I have him at 7* G8, and I wonder if he is worth all the raid gear. Or is better to invest the raid gear in Jawa team for example.

    Thanks for your answer!
  • 3 days now and Grievous on stage 1 still has 84% plus.
    this Raid is Insane.
    its only built for whales as you call them.
    and half of what you are posting on here about
    AoE and Debuffs and after 10 hits this happens..
    Did you all help develop the game??
    cause your average players, which im sure make up probably 3/4 of people playing, just don't know or don't have time to learn about all these 1000s of little nuances needed to know when this guys attcks that guys this happens but not when you attack this guy.
    most of us have real jobs and lives and are playing this game for fun. these Raids are made for people who spend their lives playing games for a living or as their #1 hobby, and thats fine for them, but the developers make it so you can only get certain gear by playing these raids and that is just not fair to the largest percentage of players involved in this game.
    next time you add something to this game, maybe make it something where even lower level, or people who don't have 6 hours a day to play this game, can actually compete.
    seriously stop catering to the top (or cash paying) players. cause you aren't getting any of us to spend money with these gimmicks. stop trying.
  • This raid strikes me as simply being content that is geared heavily towards whales and deep roster guilds. I don't mind content that is geared towards those players, I think the tournament they did was pretty good, but my issue is when they make gated content that is geared towards those players. This raid is the only way to earn gear that is necessary to your character's progression without spending crystals; however, for a smaller guild like mine it looks like it's going to take us 7 weeks minimum to finish. We could do Tier 6 of the Rancor in under a week, which I think is a reasonable time for a guild of our size, but just the amount of HP on this new boss I think is pretty over the top. 2 days in and we've only hit about 7% on phase 1. There needs to be that middle ground found in between something that works for the serious gamers and something that works for the more casual guilds.
  • I think they made normal harder because you have unlimited attempts but in heroic there is no character refresh so it needs to be a bit easier.
  • You obviously haven't tried heroic yet....
  • Just an idea( sorry if it has been suggested before)

    So with this new raid it seems like tenacity mods might be useful- but i cant afford to keep swapping arounds mods to suit different tasks. So what if we cud make 2 or 3 different mod sets per character, which we can swap between to suit different situations? For example- a speed set for arena and a health set for GW.
    Currently it costs about 4-5 k to change a 5dot mod- which adds up alot if you need to do it for each character. So maybe a mod set swap could cost around 5k each time.
    This would promote more mod farming and also provide players with some more customisation options for each task.

    Like i said, just an idea- what does everybody think?
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