Lockout for rewards flawed system

Replies

  • FN_0914 wrote: »
    Ummmmmmmmmm did we seriously just get another 150k raid tickets we effectively can't use because of this situation?

    Yeah which i think only makes the situation that much more difficult
  • Austin09370
    850 posts Member
    edited November 2016
    FN_0914 wrote: »
    ItsWedge wrote: »
    I don't think there is a bug, it's just that CG overlooked the impact of their new rules when making their business requirements. Assuming you're not guild hopping you'll run into this issue two ways...
    1). You accrue coins faster then you can expend them doing heroic raids. You can earn 210k coins a week, but will only spend 180k doing 3 Rancor raids a week. Therefore, you'll have up to an additional 30k per week and eventually that will add up to another Heroic Rancor raid that no one will be eligible for.
    2). I believe this is the more common issue. Depending on when you start your raid and complete it, the raid may be counted in a week that you're not expecting it to be counted for. It's a little confusing and that why people are claiming there is a bug. For example, your guild opened a heroic raid on Sunday and had a registration period, but you didn't choose to attack until a FFA on Monday. Once you attack that will count as 60k worth of raid rewards despite the raid being opened in a previous week. Additionally, you'll be able to accrue another 210k in coins that week allowing you to do another 3 Rancor raids. However, on the 4th raid that week you will be ineligible. Hope this helps some for at least the explanation of why this is happening.

    A user experience bug is still a bug, the same as a technical bug. If normal users are being punished by a filter that is intended to prevent cheating, then the logic itself was bugged from the start.

    You couldn't be more wrong with that statement. It's called poor business requirements. Do you understand the definition of a bug? That's a rhetorical question.

    I get what you're saying, but I don't think those of us who also work in software arguing over the definition of a "bug"* is the point here. Can we just agree that what's currently live punishes paying customers who have done nothing to deserve it?



    *also, to not consider this a bug, you have to have a pretty slavish devotion to requirements that isn't generally considered best practice- whether the flaw is in the requirements or the execution only matters is fyoure looking for someone to blame rather than address the issue. the intended user value here was to stop cheaters, it's unclear if that value was delivered, and there is a clear knock-on effect punishing users who don't fit that persona. Call it a bug or a defect or an unintended consequence or a fix or a feature... the people on CG's team can figure it out, but the fact that this has created an unfair situation that I hope will be rectified doesn't change.

    To my original point, they designed a system without understanding the impacts of the change which has been a trend throughout the game and has caused a lot of frustration for users. So basically, I don't see what your post added that I didn't already say...
  • FN_0914 wrote: »
    Ummmmmmmmmm did we seriously just get another 150k raid tickets we effectively can't use because of this situation?

    Yeah they looks to make all of us locked soon with this 150K ahahahahahhahahahahah

    "You can't win, If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine"
  • up

    We propably have same problem this week with this 150k...It would be nice to have some communication about this problem before end of the week.
  • FN_0914 wrote: »
    ItsWedge wrote: »
    I don't think there is a bug, it's just that CG overlooked the impact of their new rules when making their business requirements. Assuming you're not guild hopping you'll run into this issue two ways...
    1). You accrue coins faster then you can expend them doing heroic raids. You can earn 210k coins a week, but will only spend 180k doing 3 Rancor raids a week. Therefore, you'll have up to an additional 30k per week and eventually that will add up to another Heroic Rancor raid that no one will be eligible for.
    2). I believe this is the more common issue. Depending on when you start your raid and complete it, the raid may be counted in a week that you're not expecting it to be counted for. It's a little confusing and that why people are claiming there is a bug. For example, your guild opened a heroic raid on Sunday and had a registration period, but you didn't choose to attack until a FFA on Monday. Once you attack that will count as 60k worth of raid rewards despite the raid being opened in a previous week. Additionally, you'll be able to accrue another 210k in coins that week allowing you to do another 3 Rancor raids. However, on the 4th raid that week you will be ineligible. Hope this helps some for at least the explanation of why this is happening.

    A user experience bug is still a bug, the same as a technical bug. If normal users are being punished by a filter that is intended to prevent cheating, then the logic itself was bugged from the start.

    You couldn't be more wrong with that statement. It's called poor business requirements. Do you understand the definition of a bug? That's a rhetorical question.

    I get what you're saying, but I don't think those of us who also work in software arguing over the definition of a "bug"* is the point here. Can we just agree that what's currently live punishes paying customers who have done nothing to deserve it?



    *also, to not consider this a bug, you have to have a pretty slavish devotion to requirements that isn't generally considered best practice- whether the flaw is in the requirements or the execution only matters is fyoure looking for someone to blame rather than address the issue. the intended user value here was to stop cheaters, it's unclear if that value was delivered, and there is a clear knock-on effect punishing users who don't fit that persona. Call it a bug or a defect or an unintended consequence or a fix or a feature... the people on CG's team can figure it out, but the fact that this has created an unfair situation that I hope will be rectified doesn't change.

    To my original point, they designed a system without understanding the impacts of the change which has been a trend throughout the game and has caused a lot of frustration for users. So basically, I don't see what your post added that I didn't already say...

    I don't see what your ad hominem added either. I do think this should be treated as a bug by EA/CG as my organization would, but it seems that we all agree that this is at least a "problem" that should be addressed. I suspect we can leave it at that.
  • Shimrra wrote: »
    up

    We propably have same problem this week with this 150k...It would be nice to have some communication about this problem before end of the week.

    @EA_Jesse @CG_Kozispoon can you please let us know whether we will all be locked out of raids at the end of the week as a result of the additional tickets we were just granted?
  • nite0wl29
    412 posts Member
    edited November 2016
    It seems the trend has made its way to me. I never received my raid rewards and haven't guild hopped either! Guild name is KoR Resilience
  • ItsWedge wrote: »
    FN_0914 wrote: »
    ItsWedge wrote: »
    I don't think there is a bug, it's just that CG overlooked the impact of their new rules when making their business requirements. Assuming you're not guild hopping you'll run into this issue two ways...
    1). You accrue coins faster then you can expend them doing heroic raids. You can earn 210k coins a week, but will only spend 180k doing 3 Rancor raids a week. Therefore, you'll have up to an additional 30k per week and eventually that will add up to another Heroic Rancor raid that no one will be eligible for.
    2). I believe this is the more common issue. Depending on when you start your raid and complete it, the raid may be counted in a week that you're not expecting it to be counted for. It's a little confusing and that why people are claiming there is a bug. For example, your guild opened a heroic raid on Sunday and had a registration period, but you didn't choose to attack until a FFA on Monday. Once you attack that will count as 60k worth of raid rewards despite the raid being opened in a previous week. Additionally, you'll be able to accrue another 210k in coins that week allowing you to do another 3 Rancor raids. However, on the 4th raid that week you will be ineligible. Hope this helps some for at least the explanation of why this is happening.

    A user experience bug is still a bug, the same as a technical bug. If normal users are being punished by a filter that is intended to prevent cheating, then the logic itself was bugged from the start.

    You couldn't be more wrong with that statement. It's called poor business requirements. Do you understand the definition of a bug? That's a rhetorical question.

    I get what you're saying, but I don't think those of us who also work in software arguing over the definition of a "bug"* is the point here. Can we just agree that what's currently live punishes paying customers who have done nothing to deserve it?



    *also, to not consider this a bug, you have to have a pretty slavish devotion to requirements that isn't generally considered best practice- whether the flaw is in the requirements or the execution only matters is fyoure looking for someone to blame rather than address the issue. the intended user value here was to stop cheaters, it's unclear if that value was delivered, and there is a clear knock-on effect punishing users who don't fit that persona. Call it a bug or a defect or an unintended consequence or a fix or a feature... the people on CG's team can figure it out, but the fact that this has created an unfair situation that I hope will be rectified doesn't change.

    To my original point, they designed a system without understanding the impacts of the change which has been a trend throughout the game and has caused a lot of frustration for users. So basically, I don't see what your post added that I didn't already say...

    I don't see what your ad hominem added either. I do think this should be treated as a bug by EA/CG as my organization would, but it seems that we all agree that this is at least a "problem" that should be addressed. I suspect we can leave it at that.

    If you recall my original post was providing an explanation on what was happening so people understood the problem. Then you decided that you could educate me on what a "bug" is. From a user perspective, yes, it's a pain in the **** but if this impact was known when they pushed out this system you can hardly call it a bug. So my final point is don't get self-righteous with me when you made a tool comment to my original post (and you aren't even right). That is all.
  • FN_0914
    21 posts Member
    edited November 2016
    ItsWedge wrote: »
    FN_0914 wrote: »
    ItsWedge wrote: »
    I don't think there is a bug, it's just that CG overlooked the impact of their new rules when making their business requirements. Assuming you're not guild hopping you'll run into this issue two ways...
    1). You accrue coins faster then you can expend them doing heroic raids. You can earn 210k coins a week, but will only spend 180k doing 3 Rancor raids a week. Therefore, you'll have up to an additional 30k per week and eventually that will add up to another Heroic Rancor raid that no one will be eligible for.
    2). I believe this is the more common issue. Depending on when you start your raid and complete it, the raid may be counted in a week that you're not expecting it to be counted for. It's a little confusing and that why people are claiming there is a bug. For example, your guild opened a heroic raid on Sunday and had a registration period, but you didn't choose to attack until a FFA on Monday. Once you attack that will count as 60k worth of raid rewards despite the raid being opened in a previous week. Additionally, you'll be able to accrue another 210k in coins that week allowing you to do another 3 Rancor raids. However, on the 4th raid that week you will be ineligible. Hope this helps some for at least the explanation of why this is happening.

    A user experience bug is still a bug, the same as a technical bug. If normal users are being punished by a filter that is intended to prevent cheating, then the logic itself was bugged from the start.

    You couldn't be more wrong with that statement. It's called poor business requirements. Do you understand the definition of a bug? That's a rhetorical question.

    I get what you're saying, but I don't think those of us who also work in software arguing over the definition of a "bug"* is the point here. Can we just agree that what's currently live punishes paying customers who have done nothing to deserve it?



    *also, to not consider this a bug, you have to have a pretty slavish devotion to requirements that isn't generally considered best practice- whether the flaw is in the requirements or the execution only matters is fyoure looking for someone to blame rather than address the issue. the intended user value here was to stop cheaters, it's unclear if that value was delivered, and there is a clear knock-on effect punishing users who don't fit that persona. Call it a bug or a defect or an unintended consequence or a fix or a feature... the people on CG's team can figure it out, but the fact that this has created an unfair situation that I hope will be rectified doesn't change.

    To my original point, they designed a system without understanding the impacts of the change which has been a trend throughout the game and has caused a lot of frustration for users. So basically, I don't see what your post added that I didn't already say...

    I don't see what your ad hominem added either. I do think this should be treated as a bug by EA/CG as my organization would, but it seems that we all agree that this is at least a "problem" that should be addressed. I suspect we can leave it at that.

    If you recall my original post was providing an explanation on what was happening so people understood the problem. Then you decided that you could educate me on what a "bug" is. From a user perspective, yes, it's a pain in the **** but if this impact was known when they pushed out this system you can hardly call it a bug. So my final point is don't get self-righteous with me when you made a tool comment to my original post (and you aren't even right). That is all.

    OK buddy, you're right (except for the "tool post" part-- I assume that was aimed at me, not @ItsWedge). Let's all just stick to the original purpose here, mmmkay?

    @EA_Jesse @CG_Kozispoon any comment on giving away more raid tickets this week when most people cant use them either because of this "issue" or because they cant complete the tank fast enough to make them worthwhile?

    Not trying to be crappy about it, this is a tricky one, I get it, just looking to help manage a guild where people have no motivation to raid once they cap out.
  • FN_0914 wrote: »
    ItsWedge wrote: »
    FN_0914 wrote: »
    ItsWedge wrote: »
    I don't think there is a bug, it's just that CG overlooked the impact of their new rules when making their business requirements. Assuming you're not guild hopping you'll run into this issue two ways...
    1). You accrue coins faster then you can expend them doing heroic raids. You can earn 210k coins a week, but will only spend 180k doing 3 Rancor raids a week. Therefore, you'll have up to an additional 30k per week and eventually that will add up to another Heroic Rancor raid that no one will be eligible for.
    2). I believe this is the more common issue. Depending on when you start your raid and complete it, the raid may be counted in a week that you're not expecting it to be counted for. It's a little confusing and that why people are claiming there is a bug. For example, your guild opened a heroic raid on Sunday and had a registration period, but you didn't choose to attack until a FFA on Monday. Once you attack that will count as 60k worth of raid rewards despite the raid being opened in a previous week. Additionally, you'll be able to accrue another 210k in coins that week allowing you to do another 3 Rancor raids. However, on the 4th raid that week you will be ineligible. Hope this helps some for at least the explanation of why this is happening.

    A user experience bug is still a bug, the same as a technical bug. If normal users are being punished by a filter that is intended to prevent cheating, then the logic itself was bugged from the start.

    You couldn't be more wrong with that statement. It's called poor business requirements. Do you understand the definition of a bug? That's a rhetorical question.

    I get what you're saying, but I don't think those of us who also work in software arguing over the definition of a "bug"* is the point here. Can we just agree that what's currently live punishes paying customers who have done nothing to deserve it?



    *also, to not consider this a bug, you have to have a pretty slavish devotion to requirements that isn't generally considered best practice- whether the flaw is in the requirements or the execution only matters is fyoure looking for someone to blame rather than address the issue. the intended user value here was to stop cheaters, it's unclear if that value was delivered, and there is a clear knock-on effect punishing users who don't fit that persona. Call it a bug or a defect or an unintended consequence or a fix or a feature... the people on CG's team can figure it out, but the fact that this has created an unfair situation that I hope will be rectified doesn't change.

    To my original point, they designed a system without understanding the impacts of the change which has been a trend throughout the game and has caused a lot of frustration for users. So basically, I don't see what your post added that I didn't already say...

    I don't see what your ad hominem added either. I do think this should be treated as a bug by EA/CG as my organization would, but it seems that we all agree that this is at least a "problem" that should be addressed. I suspect we can leave it at that.

    If you recall my original post was providing an explanation on what was happening so people understood the problem. Then you decided that you could educate me on what a "bug" is. From a user perspective, yes, it's a pain in the **** but if this impact was known when they pushed out this system you can hardly call it a bug. So my final point is don't get self-righteous with me when you made a tool comment to my original post (and you aren't even right). That is all.

    OK buddy, you're right (except for the "tool post" part-- I assume that was aimed at me, not @ItsWedge). Let's all just stick to the original purpose here, mmmkay?

    @EA_Jesse @CG_Kozispoon any comment on giving away more raid tickets this week when most people cant use them either because of this "issue" or because they cant complete the tank fast enough to make them worthwhile?

    Not trying to be **** about it, this is a tricky one, I get it, just looking to help manage a guild where people have no motivation to raid once they cap out.

    Actually it was aimed @ItsWedge, lol. I just assumed you didn't read my original post when I only attempted to provide useful information and he decided it was necessary to make his comment.

    But as you said, @EA_Jesse @CG_Kozispoon need to post more detail around this rule and it's intended impacts.
  • Glad to see we can all work together... understanding we're all passionate about this subject...

    Also does not help that so many are effected and giving tix only blankets the original problem with more problems.

    Any insight is better then leaving us begging for clarity on rules that are implemented and what can only be described as "poorly explained."
  • Just a bump in case. I know the devs posts an update, but in case someone does hit lockout, this thread is here
  • up
  • Keeping this thread bumped as we're coming into Sunday and this seems to be when most were getting the lockout
  • Making sure to keep this thread alive so if anyone was locked out incorrectly, they can post here
  • Been long enough to give this just one more bump... it looks to me like this has been corrected but wanted to give this one more shot ... anyone having a legit issue with lockout?

    Might be early but many thanks @CG_Dan and the rest of the eacg team for listening to the people and working for a solution. Thanks again.
  • Just got hit by the lock out bug today, Dec 10.
    Ally Code: 199-647-236
    Guild: ALPHA SQUAD
    Please help and fix, thanks.
  • Yea, no one is coming to help you. Everyone here died on the vine.
  • Jetski wrote: »
    Just got hit by the lock out bug today, Dec 10.
    Ally Code: 199-647-236
    Guild: ALPHA SQUAD
    Please help and fix, thanks.

    Which raid were you locked out of?
  • i got lock out on Heroic AAT raid.
  • Jetski wrote: »
    i got lock out on Heroic AAT raid.

    Thanks @Jetski from my guild we kind of came up with the system in place, you should be able to run 3 tank raids in a week, which would reset whenever the weekly reset is for your guild (ours is 7pm est).
  • Jetski
    8 posts Member
    edited December 2016
    we never have this problem before as we farm heroic aat, and i am the only one got lock out in guild. I did not transfer guilds too
  • Jetski wrote: »
    we never have this problem before as we farm heroic aat, and i am the only one got lock out in guild. I did not transfer guilds too

    Seems we're having some of the same problems but with the rancor from our guild.

    @CG_Kozispoon @EA_Jesse seens like some issues might be resurfacing on the lockout...

    Any thoughts why random lockouts would be starting to resurface?
  • Keaven
    1099 posts Member
    edited December 2016
    Something in raid descriptions or a disclaimer in the raid reward tab about how this is supposed to work seems to be in order too.

    Topic subscribed.
    Profile: Keaven
    Guild: Fear The Boot
  • Keaven wrote: »
    Something in raid descriptions or a disclaimer in the raid reward tab about how this is supposed to work seems to be in order too.

    Topic subscribed.

    I think the above would do well along with a timer that can be viewed whether you have reached the lockout or not. Something that would better help anyone to understand when they are reaching the limit would be appreciated
  • Bump!!!!!
    Leader and co-founder of BHG
  • Kozispoon
    3245 posts EA Staff (retired)
    *SLIDES IN*
    TOTALLY-IN.gif

    OK! @Jetski we've taken a look at your account as you provided an ally code and could not understand why you would be experiencing this problem as our log shows you have been a part of your guild since Nov 21st, so it couldn't of been a case of guild hopping.
    After a bit of digging, it appears anyone not in a guild, when the guild leader logged in to trigger the fix, did not get their weekly contribution amount reset. Luckily, this is easily fixed and our team should be addressing your account.
    This should be pretty rare, but for everyone else: If you have not guild hopped and are experiencing a similar problem, please reply to this thread with your ally code and our team can review your account. Thanks!
    Thank you for your patience 8D Forum Guidelines
  • LVTrisha wrote: »
    835-974-229. Scruffy Looking Maulrats. Heroic Rancor.

    From Nov 14. Bunch more on page 3
  • @CG_Kozispoon thanks for looking into the one account ... I'm sure it gives all those effected some hope. I believe there many more on this topic that were effected (even after the update). I am NOT one of them and the update was great for me .

    Just passing along the feedback hoping that it will continue to help those who need it
  • Kozispoon
    3245 posts EA Staff (retired)
    LVTrisha wrote: »
    LVTrisha wrote: »
    835-974-229. Scruffy Looking Maulrats. Heroic Rancor.

    From Nov 14. Bunch more on page 3

    Hiya!
    A review of your account shows you're nowhere near the limit that would prompt you seeing the 'ineligible for rewards' warning. Could you detail what the current issue is as of this posting?

    Thank you for your patience 8D Forum Guidelines
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