Let's talk about what's "OP"
So this community does a great job with using the word OP but what does It actually take to be "OP"
Obviously for those that have been around since the start this game has went through several meta changes whether it be the dooku counter/dodge meta, the Poe coin flipping meta, the Rey meta etc where people have cried nerf this nerf that the toon is "OP"
But now we have the chaze combo where I'm actually willing to say myself for the first time is the only combo I find "OP"
When 2 toons can take out an entire team there is an issue that needs to be addressed.
What I actual consider OP is when you have a toon that has a specific role that excels in multiple roles better than toons who have ONE role.
With Chaze synergy being the example and then suppose to be acting as a tank/balanced attacker not only do they do that but they cleanse, debuff, taunt, heal and do good damage which is literally what entire metas are made up of.
This is the first time for myself where I've actually felt in this game where something is warranted with a decently heavy nerf
Obviously for those that have been around since the start this game has went through several meta changes whether it be the dooku counter/dodge meta, the Poe coin flipping meta, the Rey meta etc where people have cried nerf this nerf that the toon is "OP"
But now we have the chaze combo where I'm actually willing to say myself for the first time is the only combo I find "OP"
When 2 toons can take out an entire team there is an issue that needs to be addressed.
What I actual consider OP is when you have a toon that has a specific role that excels in multiple roles better than toons who have ONE role.
With Chaze synergy being the example and then suppose to be acting as a tank/balanced attacker not only do they do that but they cleanse, debuff, taunt, heal and do good damage which is literally what entire metas are made up of.
This is the first time for myself where I've actually felt in this game where something is warranted with a decently heavy nerf
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Ignore chirrut until he has 5-6 heal over time. Bobba one shot kills with execute, ignoring Baze taunt.
Baze is annoying. His aoe dispel is probably his most useful attribute, given B2 nullifies his taunt/retribution.
The pair are nothing like wiggs as I would have to disagree with you.
Every right to disagree
Just an FYI I have a complete maxed empire team other than shore 7* with boba and that combo is still ridiculous
Perhaps players don't want to conform. Perhaps it makes this game excessively boring, or irritating.
In any case, it hasn't changed and likely never will.
I thought wiggs was OP before auto taunters existed, but I was wrong; chaze is the definition of OP. Nerf plz EA/CG (and no that doesn't mean make the situation worse by making krennic and deathtrooper even more OP than chaze).
Except that video of 2v5 was against, IMO a poorly modded or inferior mod, that TFP was slow. Keep in mind TFP has a base speed of 17 more than Chirrut. Yes I known chirrut could be made faster, but I have rarely seen TFP sub 220 speeds.
Even if not modded perfectly 2 toons shouldn't be able to take on 5 of some of the top toons in the meta like that.
No excuse for it
That was a match between top teams on an arena shard. 2v5 should not be possible in that type of match. Honestly, it shouldn't be possible at all. But in a match between equally leveled, modded, geared, ranked teams, that's ridiculous.
I just don't see it. That opposing team looked weak to me, and it is winning on offense. Tenacity up on chirrut is what won that match.
I don't know anyone that would not attack that 2 man team.
I have seen 2vs5 before, didn't start that way but ended with the opposing team still with most protection and my 2 last men standing won. Sometimes rng goes your way.
Even bad AI and mods shouldent excuse 2v5 against top meta toons.
When you can come back with any 2 other toons other than chaze and can go 2v5 let me know
Well, he was #1, so I figure he just did that because he had to fight to lock the position and there were no consequences for losing. He probably refreshed and locked the spot again after he won. I doubt that two man team was just sitting out there open to be fought.
But the team he fought had to be a top four team on that shard.
Speed secondaries is the correct answer, they are the ones that make or break teams.
Agree that is what made the biggest difference in that match
A fresh battle being started 2v5 is way different than an a battle that started and had a end result of 2v5.
But I see where your coming from.
When you have 2 toons that dispel,heal,taunt, debuffs and do heavy damage alll wrapped in one package with a bow on top that's way over board.
Wiggs synergy IMO was done right, they were meant to do damage and they do damage great they play their roles, they don't deal damage and taunt and dispel and debuffs at the same time
If the team is so OP it would win on defense. Don't see it happening unless against a weak team.
It's what makes the biggest difference in most matches really.
yes vs some specific teams a speed advantage alone, if not too pronounced, won't cut it.. the "hard counters", on the vast majority of matches speed is the deciding factor.
I hate to say it but gotta figure out how to beat it. They want these tournaments big time it seems so I don't see them doing a thing about the characters from them. I use a hybrid to beat it, a couple versions, but Fett is a great Churitt counter. Get his protection low, but don't damage HP, let him get that HOT on him, then Execute. He is dead. I take a Wedge led Biggs Chaze Fac team on and I poke Churitt, kill Wedge as I wait for Churitt to buff, then I fire execute. I've had Success with
QGJ Zeta
Yoda(as fastest in fight)
Wiggs
Fett
QGJ Zeta
Yoda(as fastest in fight)
Vader
EP
Fett
QGJ Zeta
Yoda(as fastest in fight)
Ashoka
Fett
Fac
EP
Vader
Fett
B2
Fac
A couple Rex builds have worked with lesser certainty.
Fett and Vader Combo is huge with EP lead. That Culling will kill Wedge, Fett ability block Churitt to start to give time to whittle and kill off wedge. After Vader kill Ability block Fac if Fetts did not. Shock Baze. Execute on Churitt. sure you need RNG, but you have backups, Fetts fails Got Vader, they Fail EP Stun, ect.
With the QGJ Zeta use Yoda to give all Foresight and Tenacity. Baze will end up going and removing Foresight right away, but no longer auto taunt. Kill Wedge Whittle Churitt until Execute, Ability Block Fac.
They are ultra annoying and I agree That Monk does too much for an "attacker" class.
I'm 100% ftp and with good speed main and secondary mods, I can hang with whales and rank top 15-20 arena and rank high during raids. Speed is where it's at.
Don't agree with that because almost every single team is beatable on defense with rng and how this game is
Everybody seems to forget that this exact same scenario happened with Handokin. Three toons to take down a team. Now it's two, but there's no real difference. Y'all just salted now because these toons were pay-locked or tournament-locked and you can't access them.
As someone pointed out Bobba does very well against them
Looking at what's coming for jedi, I get the feeling a QGJ lead GK team would do well against them. If that's the case we would have a pretty good rock paper scissors meta with. Empire > Jedi > rebels > empire. If so sounds great to me.
No team should dominate all others in arena.
lol that's what people think they can say so and so toon does well but in reality most people here don't even have the teams they say does great against them.
Arguably to be said I probably have one of the best modded and geared empire teams here and that chaze combo is ridiculous. And yes I have bobba completely maxed
No man it's not people just being salty.
You shouldent have a pair of toons that make 90% of other toons irrelevant and give a 10% leeway of certain needed toons to beat the team.
Having 2 toons that play MULTIPLE ROLES better than toons that have ONE ROLE is the problem. How can you not see that?
You have a toon that is literally a Swiss army knive that does everything needed in the meta.
I'm not specifically even talking about that video no where did I mention that other than said 2v5
I specifically said chaze combo
I don't understand how people don't realize problems.
Then again most people here probably haven't gamed as much as me and competitively as me and I actually worked on balancing for a few games myself with devs
It's always been like this, though. Leia with stealth was essentially the same as having the other toons tank while she did massive damage. Poe with droids was a fast tank with a DPS bonus with Expose. STHan was a fast tank with heavy TM manipulation. Handokin (I might add... who we saw in many videos doing 3v5's) was ridiculous for a while there between Lando doing his job extremely well, Han performing the aforementioned role, and Anakin having insane revenge damage.
Chirrut is a heavy-hitting Ackbar on steroids. Blast him with Boba or place your buff immunity right and he falls.
Of course there's power discrepancy. Power struggles make money. Nothing changed.
You got 1 guy that can heal, hit hard, counter, cleanse, buff, etc.
&
Another that can auto- taunt, aoe dispel, counter, debuff.
Then you give those 2 guys duo synergy, that becomes pretty much an entire squad right there. **** i know my squad isn't the best, but it isn't the worst by no means. But out of my 5 toons I'm running atm (boba, jka, wiggs, shore). There are still things that those 2 can do alone that my entire 5 man squad can't do. Lol what? You could also tell me to replace one of my squad members with an aoe dispel, a cleanse, etc. But what is the point? When I could just put those 2 guys in and they do everything I would possibly need.
Imagine rey and rg with synergy like this back in the day. Rg giving rey all these buffs, healing her, blah blah.
The second culling blade was when baze had a taunt up and the first one wouldn't have made a difference in the match. I'm also not salted because these two toons are locked behind a paywall; I'm salted because they put an arena team's worth of skills into two characters. Its bad for balance in the game, it's bad for diversity in the game, but most importantly it's boring because removes the strategy behind building a team. Barris, lumi, assaj, and Rex all took huge nerfs when they released these two...
Of course there are some characters who become overpowered when stacked with speed from mods, it's only speed that makes some teams unbeatable.
Those other toons had no where the extent of playing multiple roles as chaze does. Yes there has always been toons that play multiple role but not toons that play them so well that make 90% of other toons completely irrelevant.
I will be making an in depth statistical post about both imwe and baze to end this non sense of people not getting it
By all means, I would love to see that report, but as you've said in regards to K-2SO, this is an issue that affects maybe the top 2.5% of the game. Chirrut and Baze are both locked away tightly, so for those few who are willing to drop a couple k to max them, I think it's only fair that they should be getting something wildly powerful.
And even at that, this duo, even with a full team, is apparently beatable.