Poe: A Plea for Context from @EA_Jesse @CG_JohnSalera

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duffmc81
107 posts Member
edited February 2016
EA_Jesse wrote: »
Poe Dameron
Poe's high-Tenacity gear upgrades after the level cap increase, coupled with his Unique ability, allowed him to substantially outperform other Tanks. In addition, the high chance to Expose enemies with Resistance Bravado made it reliable for him to secure a huge advantage for his team on the first turn. After these changes, Poe still has far more Tenacity than any other unit, and still has the only currently available Area-of-Effect Expose ability, even if it is less reliable, so we are confident that his unique role as a high-risk, high-reward Tank remains intact.
As an additional note: the changes to his gear requirements were made only on Tiers II and III in order to minimize the disruption to players currently trying to equip and upgrade Poe.
  • Expose chance reduced by 15% at all ranks
  • Reduced Tenacity on Unique ability from 15-35% to 10-22%
  • Reduced Tenacity on gear at early Tiers

@EA_Jesse @CG_JohnSalera

First off, I'm really not trying to be combative with this post...

So, as you can see (and have seen), there are a lot of feelings about Poe. You've made it clear that you read the forums, take user feedback to heart, and respond with actionable changes -- which is amazing, and I hope we are not taking it for granted.

But it's because of this -- the fact that we know you read these forums -- that maybe a lot of us are genuinely perplexed about what's going on here. A lot of people were upset about Poe before and a lot of people proposed some very valid solutions. You knew this well. New update notes come out, and we see two things that appear to actually worsen the situation (1) not really a nerf, and (2) "skirt-lifting" in Arena allows non-Poe teams to filter to get picked on. Maybe that was not the intention, but that is how it is being interpreted, and the people that are making those interpretations are not dense.

What's done is done, the update is what it is, but I was thinking what might be helpful and what might truly benefit not only us, but you as well, is a bit more context on the decision making here.
  • Are we all dense, and not seeing a very simply solution to the problem? (would LOVE for that to be the case!)
  • Are these changes supposed to be the yin to another set of changes's yang, and we're not putting 2 and 2 together?
  • Are we missing a broader point here?

Again, not trying to be combative, genuinely curious. At it's core, this boils down to the lack of ability to reconcile the fact that we know (and love!) that you take forum feedback to heart, v. what appears to be (on the surface) a non-response or possibly even worsening of the situation.

I certainly don't expect you to need to answer every whine under the sun, and don't blame you if you don't answer this one, but my sense is this is an extenuating circumstance.

Replies

  • bWUuDChl.jpg
    My name is cosmicturtle333, aka CT-333, aka Threes.
  • Lowering his speed or removing his turn meter will make Poe completely worthless.

    I like this new change from CG, you can stun or ability block him a lot easier now, plus we have QGJ to remove taunt and grant offense up.

    "Picking on players" has always happened, and it hasn't beencompletely because of team comp. Anyone can beat anyone. Just because your team doesn't have Poe doesn't make it any different. Poe on defense only boosts win rate by a small amount. AI Defense will always be poor. Furthermore, at the top of arena everyone knows the contents of everyone elses teams anyway.
  • stupidfatfool
    715 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    EA_Jesse wrote: »
    Poe Dameron
    Poe's high-Tenacity gear upgrades after the level cap increase, coupled with his Unique ability, allowed him to substantially outperform other Tanks.

    @duffmc81 You're right though - this should really say, "Poe's 143 speed, which allows to tie for chance to move first with anyone in the game, coupled with his Unique ability...."

    I'm not saying whether to nerf him or not, but either @EA_Jesse and team missed the point, or this is intentional wordsmithing to make us feel better about it.
  • I thought the nerf cries were loud enough to get the point across to the developers that the problem with Poe was his SPEED and TURN METER REDUCTION ...what's the point of nerfin his tenacity and expose? Poe still has his Potency to rely on....no offense but Yall devs completely missed the point on this tbqfh... but, thanks for writing up the update notes tho.

    @EA_Jesse @CG_JohnSalera @etc @anyoneelserelated
  • Elyndria wrote: »
    Lowering his speed or removing his turn meter will make Poe completely worthless.

    I like this new change from CG, you can stun or ability block him a lot easier now, plus we have QGJ to remove taunt and grant offense up.

    "Picking on players" has always happened, and it hasn't beencompletely because of team comp. Anyone can beat anyone. Just because your team doesn't have Poe doesn't make it any different. Poe on defense only boosts win rate by a small amount. AI Defense will always be poor. Furthermore, at the top of arena everyone knows the contents of everyone elses teams anyway.

    There are plenty of "useless" characters, so why not bloody poe! E.g bane could be fun, different and a great anti Jedi character if his HP didn't make him unplayable. My only thought could be all the whales will start singing if their maxed out poe gets a bit more tweaked...
  • Simsurf wrote: »
    Elyndria wrote: »
    Lowering his speed or removing his turn meter will make Poe completely worthless.

    I like this new change from CG, you can stun or ability block him a lot easier now, plus we have QGJ to remove taunt and grant offense up.

    "Picking on players" has always happened, and it hasn't beencompletely because of team comp. Anyone can beat anyone. Just because your team doesn't have Poe doesn't make it any different. Poe on defense only boosts win rate by a small amount. AI Defense will always be poor. Furthermore, at the top of arena everyone knows the contents of everyone elses teams anyway.

    There are plenty of "useless" characters, so why not bloody poe! E.g bane could be fun, different and a great anti Jedi character if his HP didn't make him unplayable. My only thought could be all the whales will start singing if their maxed out poe gets a bit more tweaked...

    So your argument is to take a character everyone farmed weeks for and make him unusable? lol.

    And you thought the reaction to the Barriss nerf was bad.
  • Elyndria wrote: »
    Simsurf wrote: »
    Elyndria wrote: »
    Lowering his speed or removing his turn meter will make Poe completely worthless.

    I like this new change from CG, you can stun or ability block him a lot easier now, plus we have QGJ to remove taunt and grant offense up.

    "Picking on players" has always happened, and it hasn't beencompletely because of team comp. Anyone can beat anyone. Just because your team doesn't have Poe doesn't make it any different. Poe on defense only boosts win rate by a small amount. AI Defense will always be poor. Furthermore, at the top of arena everyone knows the contents of everyone elses teams anyway.

    There are plenty of "useless" characters, so why not bloody poe! E.g bane could be fun, different and a great anti Jedi character if his HP didn't make him unplayable. My only thought could be all the whales will start singing if their maxed out poe gets a bit more tweaked...

    So your argument is to take a character everyone farmed weeks for and make him unusable? lol.

    And you thought the reaction to the Barriss nerf was bad.

    Doesn't have to be completely black and white. You can nerf him in ways that make him in line with other tanks -- not above, not below. I don't think anyone wants any character to be totally worthless.
  • goobstoob
    171 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    so much whining...just give it a rest. plenty of counters to poe, if you don't have one in your team(a counter to OR poe himself), start working on one, or just don't play against poe teams. whatever is fine. otherwise quit acting like the world owes you something and just play
  • duffmc81 wrote: »
    Elyndria wrote: »
    Simsurf wrote: »
    Elyndria wrote: »
    Lowering his speed or removing his turn meter will make Poe completely worthless.

    I like this new change from CG, you can stun or ability block him a lot easier now, plus we have QGJ to remove taunt and grant offense up.

    "Picking on players" has always happened, and it hasn't beencompletely because of team comp. Anyone can beat anyone. Just because your team doesn't have Poe doesn't make it any different. Poe on defense only boosts win rate by a small amount. AI Defense will always be poor. Furthermore, at the top of arena everyone knows the contents of everyone elses teams anyway.

    There are plenty of "useless" characters, so why not bloody poe! E.g bane could be fun, different and a great anti Jedi character if his HP didn't make him unplayable. My only thought could be all the whales will start singing if their maxed out poe gets a bit more tweaked...

    So your argument is to take a character everyone farmed weeks for and make him unusable? lol.

    And you thought the reaction to the Barriss nerf was bad.

    Doesn't have to be completely black and white. You can nerf him in ways that make him in line with other tanks -- not above, not below. I don't think anyone wants any character to be totally worthless.

    Other tanks are completely unsuable, especially when damage is so high. That's a joke, right?

  • Elyndria wrote: »
    Simsurf wrote: »
    Elyndria wrote: »
    Lowering his speed or removing his turn meter will make Poe completely worthless.

    I like this new change from CG, you can stun or ability block him a lot easier now, plus we have QGJ to remove taunt and grant offense up.

    "Picking on players" has always happened, and it hasn't beencompletely because of team comp. Anyone can beat anyone. Just because your team doesn't have Poe doesn't make it any different. Poe on defense only boosts win rate by a small amount. AI Defense will always be poor. Furthermore, at the top of arena everyone knows the contents of everyone elses teams anyway.

    There are plenty of "useless" characters, so why not bloody poe! E.g bane could be fun, different and a great anti Jedi character if his HP didn't make him unplayable. My only thought could be all the whales will start singing if their maxed out poe gets a bit more tweaked...

    So your argument is to take a character everyone farmed weeks for and make him unusable? lol.

    And you thought the reaction to the Barriss nerf was bad.

    Weeks? You should try FTP :'(
  • Baal
    602 posts Member
    Simsurf wrote: »
    Elyndria wrote: »
    Simsurf wrote: »
    Elyndria wrote: »
    Lowering his speed or removing his turn meter will make Poe completely worthless.

    I like this new change from CG, you can stun or ability block him a lot easier now, plus we have QGJ to remove taunt and grant offense up.

    "Picking on players" has always happened, and it hasn't beencompletely because of team comp. Anyone can beat anyone. Just because your team doesn't have Poe doesn't make it any different. Poe on defense only boosts win rate by a small amount. AI Defense will always be poor. Furthermore, at the top of arena everyone knows the contents of everyone elses teams anyway.

    There are plenty of "useless" characters, so why not bloody poe! E.g bane could be fun, different and a great anti Jedi character if his HP didn't make him unplayable. My only thought could be all the whales will start singing if their maxed out poe gets a bit more tweaked...

    So your argument is to take a character everyone farmed weeks for and make him unusable? lol.

    And you thought the reaction to the Barriss nerf was bad.

    Weeks? You should try FTP :'(

    Been grinding away on poe for years have you?

    I was in 'nam too.
  • Simsurf wrote: »
    Elyndria wrote: »
    Simsurf wrote: »
    Elyndria wrote: »
    Lowering his speed or removing his turn meter will make Poe completely worthless.

    I like this new change from CG, you can stun or ability block him a lot easier now, plus we have QGJ to remove taunt and grant offense up.

    "Picking on players" has always happened, and it hasn't beencompletely because of team comp. Anyone can beat anyone. Just because your team doesn't have Poe doesn't make it any different. Poe on defense only boosts win rate by a small amount. AI Defense will always be poor. Furthermore, at the top of arena everyone knows the contents of everyone elses teams anyway.

    There are plenty of "useless" characters, so why not bloody poe! E.g bane could be fun, different and a great anti Jedi character if his HP didn't make him unplayable. My only thought could be all the whales will start singing if their maxed out poe gets a bit more tweaked...

    So your argument is to take a character everyone farmed weeks for and make him unusable? lol.

    And you thought the reaction to the Barriss nerf was bad.

    Weeks? You should try FTP :'(

    I did :)

    I took Poe from a wee little 3 star to 7 stars all without chromium. This was before I knew just how important he'd be.

    As more characters come out many will be options to Poe, many will counter Poe, many will be faster than Poe. New characters always get the fancy new stuff.
  • Just get rid of the turn reduction, problem solved

    The fastest taunt in the game, which can outspeed the fastest characters in the game, doesn't need an enemy turn reduction. That just sounds like a practical joke
  • Simsurf wrote: »
    Elyndria wrote: »
    Simsurf wrote: »
    Elyndria wrote: »
    Lowering his speed or removing his turn meter will make Poe completely worthless.

    I like this new change from CG, you can stun or ability block him a lot easier now, plus we have QGJ to remove taunt and grant offense up.

    "Picking on players" has always happened, and it hasn't beencompletely because of team comp. Anyone can beat anyone. Just because your team doesn't have Poe doesn't make it any different. Poe on defense only boosts win rate by a small amount. AI Defense will always be poor. Furthermore, at the top of arena everyone knows the contents of everyone elses teams anyway.

    There are plenty of "useless" characters, so why not bloody poe! E.g bane could be fun, different and a great anti Jedi character if his HP didn't make him unplayable. My only thought could be all the whales will start singing if their maxed out poe gets a bit more tweaked...

    So your argument is to take a character everyone farmed weeks for and make him unusable? lol.

    And you thought the reaction to the Barriss nerf was bad.

    Weeks? You should try FTP :'(

    I'm guessing you have a maxed out poe :) , it's just boring seeing the same character again and again and again... The game has so much potential to mix things up with all the characters....poe kinda takes that potential away...
  • Elyndria wrote: »
    Lowering his speed or removing his turn meter will make Poe completely worthless.

    I like this new change from CG, you can stun or ability block him a lot easier now, plus we have QGJ to remove taunt and grant offense up.

    What's the point of being able to ability block or stun him when by the time my toons have a chance to do so they could be (most likely will be) dead or one of my other toons would be dead? By then the damage is done and I'm at least 1 toon down by the time the majority of my squad are about to have their first go. Oh yeah, that stun will really come in handy at that point
  • CUFCfan616 wrote: »
    Elyndria wrote: »
    Lowering his speed or removing his turn meter will make Poe completely worthless.

    I like this new change from CG, you can stun or ability block him a lot easier now, plus we have QGJ to remove taunt and grant offense up.

    What's the point of being able to ability block or stun him when by the time my toons have a chance to do so they could be (most likely will be) dead or one of my other toons would be dead? By then the damage is done and I'm at least 1 toon down by the time the majority of my squad are about to have their first go. Oh yeah, that stun will really come in handy at that point

    Um? Dooku stuns before Poe taunts usually.

    Then you have an entire turn to work on their glass cannons before he can taunt.

    You're obviously crying about other character's damage and not Poe.
  • Have you thought that maybe the developers know something we don't. New characters, maybe one or two will be the new "OP" characters. Then there is the black box changes that aren't given in patch updates. Maybe the computations on speed have changed. Maybe the new target number is 500 instead of 1000. Can't understand **** about something you haven't seen working. The Poe problem just might be fixed but until the update goes live you really don't know.
  • So the only counter to Poe is Dooku. In other words, I'm being forced into using Dooku rather than any of the other toons in my roster. Just let EA select which 5 toons they want everyone to use because as it is people're being punished for trying out something different.
  • CUFCfan616 wrote: »
    So the only counter to Poe is Dooku. In other words, I'm being forced into using Dooku rather than any of the other toons in my roster. Just let EA select which 5 toons they want everyone to use because as it is people're being punished for trying out something different.

    That's the worst thing, being limited basically to the same small variation of everyone else if you want to "survive" in arena. Hopefully there's more balancing so we have realistic choice to have winnable teams from a lot more toons. Sooner than later or else this game may be barren compared to now.
  • @duffmc81 I agree. There's so many ways of nerfing poe without making him useless and making the community mad.

    If I was a Dev, one way I would nerf poe would be to keep his speed but remove his turn meter reduc, at the same time, whenever Poe taunts, he will inflict offense down on all characters in the field. Just hear me out.

    This way, the meta would open up doors towards toons with dispels and debuffs. Their viability will be considered and diversity might improve.

    Like what I've mentioned, my suggestion isn't necessarily the only method of nerfin poe. In fact it doesn't even have to just be "offense down". It could even be inflicting Foresight on enemy toons or even Defense Up on enemy toons. (Meh. Defense up is useless af in the current Meta)

    My point is, whenever Poe taunts, there should be some incentive(s) given to the enemy team or disincentives inflicted on your allies. His taunt is the only reason Burst DPS and Glass Cannons are allowed to run amok. Balance this and you might just balance the meta.
  • You can literally win with anything, stop complaining.

    5 7*s geared up, almost regardless of who they are, will be able to beat AI defense teams a large percentage of the time.

    Speed is the main factor in viability though. If you pick all characters from the slowest bracket then you have a problem. This isn't a "OMGG NURF POE MORE LOL MAKE HIM WORTHLESS" issue, it's a speed issue.
  • Like I have said numerous times, Poe isn't the problem, it's the ridiculous Damage/Health ratio that is occurring.

    Poe is the only tank that can actually perform his role in the current meta. Every other tank is a joke. The only other one I see get used is ST Han, and laughably only when Poe is also on the team to protect him. QGJ very effectively nullifies the taunt, so will the new improved Mace, and Ventress (hopefully), and Teebo and a bunch of others.

    And stop blaming whales for protecting Poe. Poe is FTP. The whales want Poe nerfed so there is no recourse to a maxed out Leia, Old Ben, 7* FOTP meat grinder.

    And if you really just don't like Poe, there are some very viable AOE setups that can ignore his taunt completely.

  • ZarAzi wrote: »
    @duffmc81 I agree. There's so many ways of nerfing poe without making him useless and making the community mad.

    If I was a Dev, one way I would nerf poe would be to keep his speed but remove his turn meter reduc, at the same time, whenever Poe taunts, he will inflict offense down on all characters in the field. Just hear me out.

    This way, the meta would open up doors towards toons with dispels and debuffs. Their viability will be considered and diversity might improve.

    Like what I've mentioned, my suggestion isn't necessarily the only method of nerfin poe. In fact it doesn't even have to just be "offense down". It could even be inflicting Foresight on enemy toons or even Defense Up on enemy toons. (Meh. Defense up is useless af in the current Meta)

    My point is, whenever Poe taunts, there should be some incentive(s) given to the enemy team or disincentives inflicted on your allies. His taunt is the only reason Burst DPS and Glass Cannons are allowed to run amok. Balance this and you might just balance the meta.

    Removing the turn meter reduction would still make him unusable.

    75% of teams run QGJ at the top level, one dispel makes him a waste of a slot and gives their whole team offense up. Even the AI knows to dispel after taunt.
  • Toolio wrote: »
    Like I have said numerous times, Poe isn't the problem, it's the ridiculous Damage/Health ratio that is occurring.

    Poe is the only tank that can actually perform his role in the current meta. Every other tank is a joke. The only other one I see get used is ST Han, and laughably only when Poe is also on the team to protect him. QGJ very effectively nullifies the taunt, so will the new improved Mace, and Ventress (hopefully), and Teebo and a bunch of others.

    And stop blaming whales for protecting Poe. Poe is FTP. The whales want Poe nerfed so there is no recourse to a maxed out Leia, Old Ben, 7* FOTP meat grinder.

    And if you really just don't like Poe, there are some very viable AOE setups that can ignore his taunt completely.

    This guy gets it. :D
  • I don't like the logic of "it'll be alright new characters will come and counter the meta/be better." Basically saying only the new toons should be viable and everything else becomes obsolete as time goes on. That may keep the whales entertained for a while, but overall I don't think that is healthy game design. What we need is more variety. If there's some clear outliers preventing that, put them back in line, plain and simple.
  • Guys it's safe to admit that the current meta is a coin flip meta with single burst dps.

    Denying this fact would be foolish and obstinate.
    Poe is the only reason why the meta is the way it is right now.

    @Elyndria , if you read my suggestion, I would still keep his speed. No shiat poe and friends can be defeated. But when the meta becomes repetitive and random due to heads or tails. Tactics, synergies and strategy becomes limited. My suggestion would still make Poe viable but open up doors at the same time.

    @Toolio , why are you trying to divert this argument towards a whale vs ftp narrative? Stop
  • Elyndria
    482 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Heisen wrote: »
    I don't like the logic of "it'll be alright new characters will come and counter the meta/be better." Basically saying only the new toons should be viable and everything else becomes obsolete as time goes on. That may keep the whales entertained for a while, but overall I don't think that is healthy game design. What we need is more variety. If there's some clear outliers preventing that, put them back in line, plain and simple.

    There are always characters who are better than others in games like this.

    In SWGoH, these characters are defined by their speed and damage output.

    Imbalance stems only from both of these. The faster characters will always rein supreme, especially those who have high dps or extremely useful crowd control/support roles.

    The slowest bracket will never be good in arena with damage output as high as it is right now, even if Poe isn't in the game.

    Variety would be about the same OR WORSE.

    Poe gives slower characters a chance to be viable, and gives f2p players an option to beat whale teams with the best teams unobtainable to their counterparts.

    I don't see why you're complaining. Many players who can get rank 1 now never would be able to without Poe.
  • Just get rid of the turn reduction, problem solved

    The fastest taunt in the game, which can outspeed the fastest characters in the game, doesn't need an enemy turn reduction. That just sounds like a practical joke

    +1 to this.
  • Good lord... It's only day 1.

    Folks - Let's see how the patch changes things first!

    The Devs didn't just theory craft this, they tested it. Just let the patch drop and see before demanding explanations.
  • Elyndria
    482 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    ZarAzi wrote: »
    Guys it's safe to admit that the current meta is a coin flip meta with single burst dps.

    Denying this fact would be foolish and obstinate.
    Poe is the only reason why the meta is the way it is right now.

    @Elyndria , if you read my suggestion, I would still keep his speed. No shiat poe and friends can be defeated. But when the meta becomes repetitive and random due to heads or tails. Tactics, synergies and strategy becomes limited. My suggestion would still make Poe viable but open up doors at the same time.

    @Toolio , why are you trying to divert this argument towards a whale vs ftp narrative? Stop

    His speed is nearly irrelevant now because of the counters available.

    The aoe turn meter reduction is necessary for him to be viable in any way.

    Also, nerfing Poe only closes doors, as I said in my above post. It takes the option of using slightly slower characters away, such as Droids, Old Ben, etc.
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