@Qeltar You alone have NOT experimented through even a fraction of the combinations available with 71 possible toons.
Game developers ALWAYS have resources at hand for game tearing that players can never hope to get unless they start hacking. They MADE the dang game. Of course they know stuff we don't. Why are you even contending this point?
I never suggested putting "4 oddballs" in a team just to see how it goes. You're clearly just trying to downplay what I'm saying here to make it sound feeble. But you're actually illustrating my point: Meta is at least as much about mass psychology as it is about what actually works. Any one who sticks out from the norm a little gets pounded. So they get punished for experimenting. Which means the meta is consolidated - entirely unrelated to whether it is in fact the "strongest" possible present build or not.
I might agree with you about testing new builds, except that currently, against the teams I see in my arena bracket, my build largely doesn't matter half the time. If the opposing team's Poe goes first, 2-3 of my characters are going to die before I can move (and these are 7*, level 70, max gear toons with 11k+ Hp). When that happens, most of team choice becomes irrelevant. I can either use Poe myself, hoping he goes first to counteract their poe, or use characters fast enough to go before Poe (of which there are only 7), and even then their Poe can go first.
@Qeltar You alone have NOT experimented through even a fraction of the combinations available with 71 possible toons.
Game developers ALWAYS have resources at hand for game tearing that players can never hope to get unless they start hacking. They MADE the dang game. Of course they know stuff we don't. Why are you even contending this point?
I never suggested putting "4 oddballs" in a team just to see how it goes. You're clearly just trying to downplay what I'm saying here to make it sound feeble. But you're actually illustrating my point: Meta is at least as much about mass psychology as it is about what actually works. Any one who sticks out from the norm a little gets pounded. So they get punished for experimenting. Which means the meta is consolidated - entirely unrelated to whether it is in fact the "strongest" possible present build or not.
I literally disagree with every post you've made since I joined this forum.
Do you ever disagree with a dev decision? Jesus.
@Qeltar You alone have NOT experimented through even a fraction of the combinations available with 71 possible toons.
Game developers ALWAYS have resources at hand for game tearing that players can never hope to get unless they start hacking. They MADE the dang game. Of course they know stuff we don't. Why are you even contending this point?
I never suggested putting "4 oddballs" in a team just to see how it goes. You're clearly just trying to downplay what I'm saying here to make it sound feeble. But you're actually illustrating my point: Meta is at least as much about mass psychology as it is about what actually works. Any one who sticks out from the norm a little gets pounded. So they get punished for experimenting. Which means the meta is consolidated - entirely unrelated to whether it is in fact the "strongest" possible present build or not.
I literally disagree with every post you've made since I joined this forum.
Do you ever disagree with a dev decision? Jesus.
I read quickly and thought it was a Dev Jesus. Lolled for a minute.
@Qeltar You alone have NOT experimented through even a fraction of the combinations available with 71 possible toons.
Game developers ALWAYS have resources at hand for game tearing that players can never hope to get unless they start hacking. They MADE the dang game. Of course they know stuff we don't. Why are you even contending this point?
I never suggested putting "4 oddballs" in a team just to see how it goes. You're clearly just trying to downplay what I'm saying here to make it sound feeble. But you're actually illustrating my point: Meta is at least as much about mass psychology as it is about what actually works. Any one who sticks out from the norm a little gets pounded. So they get punished for experimenting. Which means the meta is consolidated - entirely unrelated to whether it is in fact the "strongest" possible present build or not.
I literally disagree with every post you've made since I joined this forum.
Do you ever disagree with a dev decision? Jesus.
I read quickly and thought it was a Dev Jesus. Lolled for a minute.
haha... some one taught you to skim read far too well
Former crazy person of the guild "Shard Awakens"... *quit game 13th July 2016*
Game used to be fun when it wasn't a grind... if I wanted a grind I would have went and played old school Everquest or some Korean MMO!
To be poetent in arena these days u need to either get a Poe or have a great anti Poe team.
Agree. I refuse to use him. I have a phasma counter assist/team that can get me rank 1. Dropped lumi recently for more damage and it's working better. Working on other teams as well but takes a while to cap Heros.
All you do is whine...better get that 4* Poe starred up
I just unlocked him and have enough tokens saved to get him as high as I want. Irrelevant to this thread. Please don't post if you have nothing constructive to contribute.
I have a phasma counter assist/team that can get me rank 1.
You are likely on a new shard. This is the sort of team I run now. I've slipped from easily getting top 10 to having to fight to get into the top 20. Now that everyone will be able to see you don't have Poe, you are going to be "picked on" mercilessly. That's the point of this thread.
what about the people who have tuned a anti-poe team? they are going to be actively poe-hunting, especially once the nerf hits and they can see the whole team.
what about the people who have tuned a anti-poe team?
For starters I am not sure that this really exists. There are some builds that can beat him some of the time, and certainly do better than others. But most of these require very smart play, so they will be bad on defense and will get hammered down the leaderboard whenever their owner isn't active.
The "anti-Poe" teams are mostly also going to have Poe.
All you do is whine...better get that 4* Poe starred up
I just unlocked him and have enough tokens saved to get him as high as I want. Irrelevant to this thread. Please don't post if you have nothing constructive to contribute.
I have a phasma counter assist/team that can get me rank 1.
You are likely on a new shard. This is the sort of team I run now. I've slipped from easily getting top 10 to having to fight to get into the top 20. Now that everyone will be able to see you don't have Poe, you are going to be "picked on" mercilessly. That's the point of this thread.
Right on. It's not whining if it's the truth. I challenge anyone to claim that non Poe teams are not going to be targeted at higher rates than Poe teams. Drop the Poe can be beat arguments for once and say it's not true.
Of course, anyone can say anything, this is the Internet. I'm challenging only the honest ones. Not if he can be beat or not, just that his absence will make you a higher priority target.
@Qeltar
You really need to spend less time here mate. You're starting to turn into something other than december Qeltar. I notice the same, I'm getting more obnoxious here Especially with my immature meme spammage from time to time. Anyway, take a break and come back in a different mind set.
You guys are all overdiscussing something that shouldn't need to be discussed atm.
Poe is beatable, many vids to "show" that are around on this forum.
If Poe wouldn't be viable anymore, QGJ will get the hit next. After QGJ people scream about GS and after GS were back to the Sid/Phasma being OP discussion.
It's an endless circle and I really do think that with this change, the outcome might be different than we think.
We assume too much. Also reading stuff like: update is already disappointing me, means you spend too much time getting off on Arena ranking. Arena is a small part of this game, it will improve but I care the least.
Also they hit the nerf too hard on Barriss, I can imagine they don't want to make the same mistake.
Nerfing Poe into nothing will cause more backlash. Also I read they are still testing so it's not definitive. Good expressing your concerns but don't take it too seriously.
439-259-888 I have a bad habit of editing my typo's after posting
Seeing the whole team seems to be an advantage when you face poe teams, you prepare for the poe. I do believe there are counters to poe-teams we didnt find yet. QGJ seems a reliable dispel to the poe taunt. Windu got a buff, maybe he is a legit counter in the future. And FOTP is getting nerfed, so you can probably one shot him. Lets just wait for the update and see how it works out.
As for trying out teams, that's still possible. You just try out a new team for 4 battles or so and then you switch to your regular team or defense team.
I for one won't be choosing to attack Poe teams... I don't have Poe myself and don't wanna join the world in doing so, but I know my rank will get pushed back and I'll never challenge a Poe team unless I have to... and I have a 6* QGJ..
@CronozNL - I don't think I've changed. When CG does something right I give them credit. When they do something boneheaded, I point it out. Back in December, I got the same "crying/whiner" childish nonsense when I pointed out that the Barriss nerf was overdone, even though most people now agree with what I said then.
There is much to like in this new update, but after waiting for 2 months they did virtually nothing to address balance issues with characters, and this "fix" to Poe reflects a complete lack of understanding of the problem with him.
It doesn't matter that he's "beatable", and those videos only show the "anti-Poe" team on offense, not defense. Any team is beatable but a team without Poe is nearly always going to be easier to beat than one with him. Anyone who uses Poe is going to prefer to fight a team without Poe. Anyone who doesn't will quickly learn to prefer most non-Poe teams as well.
That's the point of this thread. It's not about whether I have Poe or not (I do) or whether Poe can be beaten or not (he can). It's about one character that dominates the game not being fixed, and a new feature that makes his not-being-fixed even more of an issue.
As for my views on PvP, see point #16 of my "newbie trap" guide. I don't obsess over it at all. But I don't like constantly losing any more than the next guy.
Poe, to me, is a synergy character. I run Poe. The way Poe is right now, in my opinion, is the way Poe should with 4 resistance allies. He should not be just as effective with Poggle/88/86/Lumi as he is with the synergy he is associated with. Look at the Empire tank, he needs 4 empire allies to be worth anything, and he still is complete garbage.
Again we have all said this a million times, but even fixing Poe won't solve PvP, I think it would make things more enjoyable for a few weeks as we all get to try new line ups. However mostly high DPS toons would still rule the world.
First off, I appreciate seeing detailed notes of what is happening. I also appreciate all the bug fixes as stability is the building block of any good application, or in this case, game.
I feel bad that they laid poor Asajj to rest as a usable character, looks like my work on her was for nothing so she's now an eternal benchwarmer or maybe she can be 6* cannon-fodder for GW. I also didn't see anything about Nightsister Initiate getting fixed either, the poor Nightsister's getting no love in this update.
I know the biggest issue most will have is that Poe will now be a staple on every team indefinitely. It's too bad we all didn't know this sooner or else we all could have just built the same team and saved a bunch of time farming all these other toons. Luckily, I never followed the meta anyway as I was never trying to be #1 in anything regarding this game, just wanted something to do when I have free time.
Once again, I feel like I dodged a bullet when I decided to go 100% F2P way back when I started and I'm patting myself on the back again for that wise decision.
Overall, we all will agree or disagree on the content of this major update. I'm certain EA/CG will get slammed these next few days for this and anything major I could offer has already been said so I'm going to sit this round out overall and comment lightly when I agree with another person's point.....
This came up in another thread but is worth its own thread so CG and players realize what is about to happen.
Poe was nerfed, but barely, and in the wrong place. Lower tenacity slightly increases the chance of stunning him before he taunts, but that was a low chance to begin with. Even the expose reduction is besides the point. Poe is used to speed up teams and protect glass cannons. He can still do this. So he will still provide an enormous advantage.
Now combine this with another change: everyone will be able to see your entire team. Poe was rarely used as a leader, so you didn't know for sure he'd be there on a team you attacked. Now? Everyone has to lift their skirts, so to speak. So people will be able to "bully" teams that look weaker, and at the top of the list will be... any team without Poe.
Alternative or unusual teams will also get "picked on" because they will look easy. Try to build a healer team? Or anything else weird? Everyone will fight you and knock you down. No longer can you try something different with a common leader like Lumi and give someone a surprise.
We are now heading into an arms race where Poe (or maybe ST Han) will need to be on every team just to be competitive. And the rest of the characters will usually be high DPS / AoE.
Somehow after making us wait for weeks to deal with Poe, CG has managed to put out an update that -- while great in many other respects -- will actually reduce PvP build diversity.
My feelings exactly.Hell phasma was nerfed more than poe according to the patch notes.
Quick question for all who are actually defending not balancing :
Who would you rather attack?
Phasma(L),Sid,Dooku,Lumi,Kylo
Sid(L),Dooku,Sid,Lumi,Poe
You might be able to beat poe teams but no one jumps at the thought of fighting one.The ones with no poe are gonna get hammered down daily till they get poe.
@ioniancat21 If you were using (or planning to use) Asajj for her heal, you were doing it wrong.
It's not a nerf, it's a boost rather than a nerf. Especially in current meta it's nice that Asajj her dispel isn't broken anymore and will dispel more buffs. It's not a healmeta anyway and you use her for her 7k crit autohit with stun or 5k crit aoe with boost. If you are planning to use a heal, take lumi.
Imo she got more useful and I have her at 7* a long time, using her a lot. The heal was a bonus but nothing gamechanging. Her inability to dispell buffs made her dodgy.
@Qeltar
Yes I understand and I also was on your side during the whole Barriss discussion, not that I posted a lot back then but I did somewhere.
It just amazes me to see all these walls of text after they released the initial patch notes.
There is a lot of stuff changing but I didn't have the illusion they could fix the game to our needs for 100%. Especially the needs of some people around (you now as well, sorry ).
Don't wanna be salty or start a fight but let it launch first before you make all the same topics over and over again.
I agree with you a lot but you don't wanna go down the toxic road.
@Miller
I'm no streamer or anything but the lack of examples (videos) about this Poe ranting (in which I participated, still think he is broken :P) is incredibly high.
439-259-888 I have a bad habit of editing my typo's after posting
Poe is called high risk/high reward. I can only see the reward part and not the risk part even after the small nerf. He will still be the only hero who can compete for 1# position easily without needing to star up and the best hero on defense mode. Maybe even better now we can easier actively avoid Poe teams, because we can see which team has the Poe and which team don't.
This change brought more counterplay against Poe to the board, but I don't think it is enough yet. But we will see.
FOTP may be even worse now he will have more agility and Poe in the team. Difficult to hit immediately and he will hit the opponent harder.
Anyone else get the idea @Gurley30 works for cg? Just all of a sudden popped up praising the devs all the time. Never really adds to the conversation just little one sentence "devs are great!". Couple this with the fact that he had a newly created account that heavily references the rams who are moving to california...conspiracy.
Ye I really think devs, IMDB sockpuppets, media, worldleaders and politics is all fake. Cmon man, you know better :P
They don't need any socket/muppet accounts, people are genuinly happy with most parts of this game. This made come as a shock to you but most people don't care for this PvAI arena. Gives 2 tokens per day, some Crystals and e-peenus status (not really cause no1 knows who you are anyway).
439-259-888 I have a bad habit of editing my typo's after posting
Replies
I might agree with you about testing new builds, except that currently, against the teams I see in my arena bracket, my build largely doesn't matter half the time. If the opposing team's Poe goes first, 2-3 of my characters are going to die before I can move (and these are 7*, level 70, max gear toons with 11k+ Hp). When that happens, most of team choice becomes irrelevant. I can either use Poe myself, hoping he goes first to counteract their poe, or use characters fast enough to go before Poe (of which there are only 7), and even then their Poe can go first.
I literally disagree with every post you've made since I joined this forum.
Do you ever disagree with a dev decision? Jesus.
I read quickly and thought it was a Dev Jesus. Lolled for a minute.
haha... some one taught you to skim read far too well
Game used to be fun when it wasn't a grind... if I wanted a grind I would have went and played old school Everquest or some Korean MMO!
I consider myself lucky to be top 15 everyday (mostly 7-10) running the squad I do.
I don't have droids, poe, poggle, leia, etc
Oh well.
Agree. I refuse to use him. I have a phasma counter assist/team that can get me rank 1. Dropped lumi recently for more damage and it's working better. Working on other teams as well but takes a while to cap Heros.
You are likely on a new shard. This is the sort of team I run now. I've slipped from easily getting top 10 to having to fight to get into the top 20. Now that everyone will be able to see you don't have Poe, you are going to be "picked on" mercilessly. That's the point of this thread.
The "anti-Poe" teams are mostly also going to have Poe.
Right on. It's not whining if it's the truth. I challenge anyone to claim that non Poe teams are not going to be targeted at higher rates than Poe teams. Drop the Poe can be beat arguments for once and say it's not true.
Of course, anyone can say anything, this is the Internet. I'm challenging only the honest ones. Not if he can be beat or not, just that his absence will make you a higher priority target.
You really need to spend less time here mate. You're starting to turn into something other than december Qeltar. I notice the same, I'm getting more obnoxious here
You guys are all overdiscussing something that shouldn't need to be discussed atm.
Poe is beatable, many vids to "show" that are around on this forum.
If Poe wouldn't be viable anymore, QGJ will get the hit next. After QGJ people scream about GS and after GS were back to the Sid/Phasma being OP discussion.
It's an endless circle and I really do think that with this change, the outcome might be different than we think.
We assume too much. Also reading stuff like: update is already disappointing me, means you spend too much time getting off on Arena ranking. Arena is a small part of this game, it will improve but I care the least.
Also they hit the nerf too hard on Barriss, I can imagine they don't want to make the same mistake.
Nerfing Poe into nothing will cause more backlash. Also I read they are still testing so it's not definitive. Good expressing your concerns but don't take it too seriously.
As for trying out teams, that's still possible. You just try out a new team for 4 battles or so and then you switch to your regular team or defense team.
There is much to like in this new update, but after waiting for 2 months they did virtually nothing to address balance issues with characters, and this "fix" to Poe reflects a complete lack of understanding of the problem with him.
It doesn't matter that he's "beatable", and those videos only show the "anti-Poe" team on offense, not defense. Any team is beatable but a team without Poe is nearly always going to be easier to beat than one with him. Anyone who uses Poe is going to prefer to fight a team without Poe. Anyone who doesn't will quickly learn to prefer most non-Poe teams as well.
That's the point of this thread. It's not about whether I have Poe or not (I do) or whether Poe can be beaten or not (he can). It's about one character that dominates the game not being fixed, and a new feature that makes his not-being-fixed even more of an issue.
As for my views on PvP, see point #16 of my "newbie trap" guide. I don't obsess over it at all. But I don't like constantly losing any more than the next guy.
Overall, we all will agree or disagree on the content of this major update. I'm certain EA/CG will get slammed these next few days for this and anything major I could offer has already been said so I'm going to sit this round out overall and comment lightly when I agree with another person's point.....
My feelings exactly.Hell phasma was nerfed more than poe according to the patch notes.
Who would you rather attack?
Phasma(L),Sid,Dooku,Lumi,Kylo
Sid(L),Dooku,Sid,Lumi,Poe
You might be able to beat poe teams but no one jumps at the thought of fighting one.The ones with no poe are gonna get hammered down daily till they get poe.
It's not a nerf, it's a boost rather than a nerf. Especially in current meta it's nice that Asajj her dispel isn't broken anymore and will dispel more buffs. It's not a healmeta anyway and you use her for her 7k crit autohit with stun or 5k crit aoe with boost. If you are planning to use a heal, take lumi.
Imo she got more useful and I have her at 7* a long time, using her a lot. The heal was a bonus but nothing gamechanging. Her inability to dispell buffs made her dodgy.
@Qeltar
Yes I understand and I also was on your side during the whole Barriss discussion, not that I posted a lot back then but I did somewhere.
It just amazes me to see all these walls of text after they released the initial patch notes.
There is a lot of stuff changing but I didn't have the illusion they could fix the game to our needs for 100%. Especially the needs of some people around (you now as well, sorry
Don't wanna be salty or start a fight but let it launch first before you make all the same topics over and over again.
I agree with you a lot but you don't wanna go down the toxic road.
@Miller
I'm no streamer or anything but the lack of examples (videos) about this Poe ranting (in which I participated, still think he is broken :P) is incredibly high.
This change brought more counterplay against Poe to the board, but I don't think it is enough yet. But we will see.
FOTP may be even worse now he will have more agility and Poe in the team. Difficult to hit immediately and he will hit the opponent harder.
Ye I really think devs, IMDB sockpuppets, media, worldleaders and politics is all fake. Cmon man, you know better :P
They don't need any socket/muppet accounts, people are genuinly happy with most parts of this game. This made come as a shock to you but most people don't care for this PvAI arena. Gives 2 tokens per day, some Crystals and e-peenus status (not really cause no1 knows who you are anyway).
That's it, I'm officially freaked. So scary!!!