Sith Assassin getting tons of hype, Sith Trooper not so much... let's discuss

Dwinkelm
765 posts Member
edited February 2017
Sith Assassin, Sith Trooper, and Darth Nihilus are all some pretty bad-@**** toons with some fun and powerful kits, there's no denying it. While Nihilus looks like he could be a strong stand-alone toon on many squads, Assassin and Trooper most certainly belong on all-Sith squads. I would like to start a conversation regarding the pros and cons of SA versus SiT, and weigh the option of using them both at the sacrifice of a more iconic Sith toon.

It would seem most of the hype and rage surrounding Assassin has to do with using her Dark Shroud special ability under a Zaul leadership. This would grant all Sith allies 36% TM gain, after the initial 20% TM gain from Zaul leadership, for a whopping 56% TM head start to for your Sith. This should allow for all your Sith to get their nasty AoE debuff game on before the other team even moves The only foreseeable counters could be Han Solo, or an opposing Dooku under Zaul using force Lightning to stun SA. Undoubtedly for this combo alone, SA could be totally worth it. Add in all the funky and unpredictable buffs, cleanses, stuns, and stealth, and SA becomes a fearsome foe.

It doesn't stop there, though. The scenario above seems like a perfect storm, but SA would seem to fit perfectly well under Palp and Zader leads (I think we can all agree Dooku and Sid leadership are outdated). Add in the easy-to-gear appeal and the f2p aspect, and SA does indeed seem like a worthy farm.


But what about Sith Trooper?? Where's the love for this hoss!?!?

This guy is going to Make Defense Great Again. With his unique, he will start each battle at 250% defense. Put him under a SO leadership (just for poops and giggles), and his starting defense is at 325%. Use Defense mods with Defense primaries and secondaries, and I can definitely see somebody pushing this number to 400%. Talk about having a power level over 9000.

Or let's just say you decide to put him under DH leadership, with around 300% Defense, and he gets his taunt and retribution up. Who's going to kill this guy? 160% health steal on retribution? He'll use his AoE first turn, regaining most of the health he lost, while inflicting offense down on the opponent. Then he taunts for another round, taking half the damage he did before, gaining the same amount of health back, all while your Sith team laughs.

I think with his constant taunt, retribution, defense, and O-down debuff, SiT will become a more predictable and reliable member of most Sith teams, despite all the hype for Assassin. The only Sith team I don't see him excelling in is Zaul, where you want the stealth and evasion and TM gain and RNG to wreak havoc with the opponent's game plan.


So what about using the two of them together, and omitting an iconic Sith like Sid or Dooku or SO? After thinking about it, I think these two are almost a necessary tandem if you aren't running a Zaul team. The speed of SA will get your SiT taunting right away and get your otherwise slow Sith team where it needs to be. Allowing Zader teams to move first and remove TM, while basically granting an autotaunt will be very tough to deal with. Under EP lead, SA and SiT regain health with each debuff applied will keep them living long and strong, and can be paired with tankier empire toons as well. And yes, I even think SO might find his leadership ability used, prolonging battles beyond the 5 minute mark on defense.


Now before anybody chimes in with "yea but my B2/GK/Baze/Rex will do this/that/the other thing," I would like this conversation to be steered more in the SiT VS. SA direction.

So what's everybody think, most people on the SA bandwagon? Or are there others out there like me who see more potential in Trooper?

Replies

  • Interesting discussion - I'm on the fence right now, because a lot of where I go with the new toons is going to come down to pack pricing initially.

    I run a Zaul lead so SA had instant appeal, but I feel there could well be some nice utility in SiT as you say (perhaps not under Zaul though!).
  • Dwinkelm wrote: »
    But what about Sith Trooper?? Where's the love for this hoss!?!?

    This guy is going to Make Defense Great Again. With his unique, he will start each battle at 250% defense. Put him under a SO leadership (just for poops and giggles), and his starting defense is at 325%. Use Defense mods with Defense primaries and secondaries, and I can definitely see somebody pushing this number to 400%. Talk about having a power level over 9000.

    Don't tell anyone but I am working on this, and .... well. Let's say we are talikng about 65% to 60% damage reduction (with no special mods, just primary defense) from lvl 70 to 85.
  • I think his problem is compared to other tanks, he's just a wall. Lots of tanks are walls, it's thier job, so the real question is what else do they bring to the table? Let's look at some of the main tanks; storm Han? Tons of turn meter gain for the rest of your team. Royal guard? Stuns, speed down, and taunting when a team member could most use it (unless you're fighting an AoE team). Sun Fac? Dispel on basic, a base counter chance, and self healing. Baze and Shoretrooper? Taunt at the beginning of the match. Baze having AoE dispel and retribution, and shore granting crit immunity. Now what about Sith trooper? Defense down, offense down, and protection piercing with his low damage. Finally the big part what do all he other tanks have in common? You can put them on to any team and they'll do their job right, with Sith trooper he HAS to be on a sith team in order to get the full use out of him, a sith team that apart from the 3 new releases and Vader, most people don't have.
  • I am planning Zaul , SA, Palp, Vader + something, but when i will be switching to DN lead - SiTrooper is clear choice.

    I have in my collection nice geared 6* Shore as my best tank right now.
  • Also where are you getting 36% turn meter, that'd be three buffs but under maul lead they'll get the 20% and assuming she goes first the stealth dispels and she gains advantage, so it's a 20% boost, by the time the she goes the team is likely around 50% meter, where she then jumps it up 12% with her advantage
  • Zooey
    1607 posts Member
    He doesn't do enough. Taunts are fairly useless versus B2 or other dispelers. And outside of taunting he does nothing else
  • Kenobi is a much better option in my opinion.
    Do or do not...
  • SlyGambit
    1246 posts Member
    edited February 2017
    Dwinkelm wrote: »
    Or let's just say you decide to put him under DH leadership, with around 300% Defense, and he gets his taunt and retribution up.

    How is he getting his taunt up? The top meta toons in the game nearly all ability block or force buff immunity. He does not appear to have special speed or any particular ability that would provide TM to overcome a lack of speed.

    There is a reason why Shore and Baze are the only reliably effective taunters and why STHan/Poe/Sun Fac are only as good as their speed relative to the enemy squad's speed.

    In the end this game boils down to speed. Sith Assassin has it. Sith Trooper does not.
  • His gear requirements are a little steep so it's hard to justify 3 stun cuffs on an experiment. But I do think that he will be good under DN lead.
  • The dispel argument certainly is valid, but I think SiT will regain taunt quickly as other Sith use special abilities. The first taunt will be wiped for sure, 2nd taunt (gained through ally special abilities) will probably last.
  • Zombie961 wrote: »
    Also where are you getting 36% turn meter, that'd be three buffs but under maul lead they'll get the 20% and assuming she goes first the stealth dispels and she gains advantage, so it's a 20% boost, by the time the she goes the team is likely around 50% meter, where she then jumps it up 12% with her advantage

    SA gives the turn meter after buffing herself, that means he has advantage, stealth and foresight -> 3 buffs * 12% TM per buff = 36% TM the math is accurate and correct. My Assassin has 254 speed and after her special even Savage at 155 has 100% TM.

    @SlyGambit he gets the taunt up as soon as Assassin uses her special. That is if you have his unique Zeta'd. If you have Savage in the team SiT could get rid of buff immunity quickly or not depending on RNG. I think OP has a point but you'd need a lot of tenacity still.

    OP 300% defense sounds absolutely amazing but I'm not sure it will actually translate to too much of an armour boost so not sure how long he can survive
  • Sith Trooper doesn't have alot of speed as mentioned but alot of those people saying he wont get to taunt seem to forget that his is an auto-taunt like RG. It even has 2 different ways of triggering, on Sith Ally special use or if their health drops below 50%. Meaning that he will be able to regain his defense, taunt and retribution early and often.

    Regarding the dispell/buff immunity argument, well yeah if you use a counter tank character you will, surprise, counter a tank. That doesn't mean that tanks don't serve a role, they still serve as an obstacle that your opponent has to work around to get to your dangerous pieces. Consider in a zMaul lead team that Sith assassin will almost always go first due to his speed +20% TM, meaning Sith Trooper will always have Taunt up at the start of the match and your Maul/Palp are likely going next to shock/daze that slow as dirt B2. So yea, counters will have counters and the Meta will continue to evolve. Sith Trooper looks like he fills an effective roll for darkside/sith teams and Sith Assassin looks like he has great synergy in speeding up Sith teams. I personally am going to gear/level both and have them available in my stable to sub in at anytime.
  • I think everyone is missing the point of SiT: Ignoring protection.

    SiT + SA + SO = General Kenobi with full prot and half health getting executed.

    SiT is going to make HEALERS great again.
    Enthusiast of undervalued toons, general dismisser of trends,
    https://swgoh.gg/u/arkham/, A Team
  • I actually prefer sith trooper to assassin and I will be running a maul team soon. Assassin is bugged, but the real advantage is it gives sith an autotaunt under zaul (since you will go first), and then he will be regaining taunt multiple times in a match. Sure B2 will be a very strong counter to this team, but if palp shocks or maul daze's b2, then he is out of the game. It would be a very fun team to run. I'm more torn in who to work on first, nihilus or sith trooper.
  • Zooey
    1607 posts Member
    Arkham wrote: »
    I think everyone is missing the point of SiT: Ignoring protection.

    SiT + SA + SO = General Kenobi with full prot and half health getting executed.

    SiT is going to make HEALERS great again.

    This will never work correctly on defense which is why it's not viable. Anything the AI can't handle correctly won't be a fully viable arena build
  • Zooey
    1607 posts Member
    The dispel argument certainly is valid, but I think SiT will regain taunt quickly as other Sith use special abilities. The first taunt will be wiped for sure, 2nd taunt (gained through ally special abilities) will probably last.

    B2 gives buff immunity which will stop it on the next proc. That's why a toon like GK or even a combo like Chaze is much preferred over other taunters.
  • Zooey wrote: »
    Arkham wrote: »
    I think everyone is missing the point of SiT: Ignoring protection.

    SiT + SA + SO = General Kenobi with full prot and half health getting executed.

    SiT is going to make HEALERS great again.

    This will never work correctly on defense which is why it's not viable. Anything the AI can't handle correctly won't be a fully viable arena build

    I use Savage auto-play to decide whether execute is worth it. AI can handle it better than I can.
    Enthusiast of undervalued toons, general dismisser of trends,
    https://swgoh.gg/u/arkham/, A Team
  • Poxx
    2288 posts Member
    Sith Assassin and Sith Trooper both will shine, but under different leads.

    SA under zMaul 4 the stealth

    ST under Nihilus his lead turning prot into health.
  • Assassin is bugged

    I guess that statement can be pulled back again..
  • Dwinkelm wrote: »
    The only foreseeable counters could be Han Solo, or an opposing Dooku under Zaul using force Lightning to stun SA. Undoubtedly for this combo alone, SA could be totally worth it. Add in all the funky and unpredictable buffs, cleanses, stuns, and stealth, and SA becomes a fearsome foe.
    Solo and Dooku won't be able to stun SA as she will be stealthed. As long as at least 1 of the other characters is not a sith, she will not be targetable. Dooku could stun her as the secondary target with force lightning but that is only a 1/8 chance that he attempts to stun her and it may or may not stick.
  • Zaul sith team doesn't really need SiT. Already have evasion and TM and can't be crit in stealth. With SA you can have EP stun and Daze down before anyone on the other team moves. Dispel is what Zaul sith team needs as now pretty much everyone rolls with an auto taunt. Ive been using Fac just for counter dispel. Nihilus will replace him.
  • Dwinkelm wrote: »
    The only foreseeable counters could be Han Solo, or an opposing Dooku under Zaul using force Lightning to stun SA. Undoubtedly for this combo alone, SA could be totally worth it. Add in all the funky and unpredictable buffs, cleanses, stuns, and stealth, and SA becomes a fearsome foe.
    Solo and Dooku won't be able to stun SA as she will be stealthed. As long as at least 1 of the other characters is not a sith, she will not be targetable. Dooku could stun her as the secondary target with force lightning but that is only a 1/8 chance that he attempts to stun her and it may or may not stick.


    This is why this discussion began, for points like this. I just assumed SA would be on an all-Sith team in this scenario, thus targetable, but how wrong am I? I mean, how great would Zylo be as that last non-Sith spot in a Zaul team? Supercalifagilisticexpealadocious great, that's the answer for those wondering.

    I'm happy this thread has some minor traction. I'm glad to hear there are some SiT supporters out there, too! I love being crazy, but not totally-anti-meta crazy
  • Darlex11 wrote: »
    Sith Trooper doesn't have alot of speed as mentioned but alot of those people saying he wont get to taunt seem to forget that his is an auto-taunt like RG. It even has 2 different ways of triggering, on Sith Ally special use or if their health drops below 50%. Meaning that he will be able to regain his defense, taunt and retribution early and often.

    Regarding the dispell/buff immunity argument, well yeah if you use a counter tank character you will, surprise, counter a tank. That doesn't mean that tanks don't serve a role, they still serve as an obstacle that your opponent has to work around to get to your dangerous pieces. Consider in a zMaul lead team that Sith assassin will almost always go first due to his speed +20% TM, meaning Sith Trooper will always have Taunt up at the start of the match and your Maul/Palp are likely going next to shock/daze that slow as dirt B2. So yea, counters will have counters and the Meta will continue to evolve. Sith Trooper looks like he fills an effective roll for darkside/sith teams and Sith Assassin looks like he has great synergy in speeding up Sith teams. I personally am going to gear/level both and have them available in my stable to sub in at anytime.

    Bingo.
  • Zooey
    1607 posts Member
    Arkham wrote: »
    Zooey wrote: »
    Arkham wrote: »
    I think everyone is missing the point of SiT: Ignoring protection.

    SiT + SA + SO = General Kenobi with full prot and half health getting executed.

    SiT is going to make HEALERS great again.

    This will never work correctly on defense which is why it's not viable. Anything the AI can't handle correctly won't be a fully viable arena build

    I use Savage auto-play to decide whether execute is worth it. AI can handle it better than I can.

    I'm saying the AI won't focus to get the targets below 50%. And given how many auto taunts there are in an actual battle good luck on manual.
  • Zaul sith team doesn't really need SiT. Already have evasion and TM and can't be crit in stealth. With SA you can have EP stun and Daze down before anyone on the other team moves. Dispel is what Zaul sith team needs as now pretty much everyone rolls with an auto taunt. Ive been using Fac just for counter dispel. Nihilus will replace him.

    Bingo #2, if you roll with a Zaul team.
  • He looks OK but I can't see how he can be better than Kenobi, even in a full sith team?
  • MackemSLAM wrote: »
    He looks OK but I can't see how he can be better than Kenobi, even in a full sith team?

    The team I could imagine Trooper being good in is a Nihilus lead with very fast Sid and Dooku to get taunt and retribution up quickly, last member would probably be Zavage or if non-sith Kylo or GK
  • Sith trooper, with sith assassin, with vader, and Nihulus lead is r3ally a very effective team. Ylu dknt even have to have a 5th sith, but it won't hurt either. They are a nasty combo. I ise them all at 3 stars and they stil wreck shop lol. No uealer full gw clears very quickly. Even in arena, all though i have been afraid to leave them ondefence . Km scared the AI will ruin the combo lol. My main gripe. 60 bucks i spent. Nihulus got 35 shsrds in 20 dollar purchae. Sith trooper got 20 shards in a 4p dollar purchase. Whats up devs? Drop rates a little stupid isn't it. I have spent a lot these few months playing the game. The pack left my rectum feeling stretched to the size of a 3 liter bottle. I joke about it, but i really do feel they are taking these packs a little to far. I know i wont be buying anything in the future. It will have to be an oh my god pack for me to even think about it. Til then meet the newest free to play player lol
  • Sorry for typos, i blame the phone, and the lack of feeling in my hands at the moment. Its cold in New York today
  • Dwinkelm
    765 posts Member
    edited March 2017
    I sympathize with ya, I'm in VA currently but an upstate NYer growing up, it's been cold here recently so I can only imagine what it's likenuo there right meow.


    I'm leaning toward a Zader, Maul, Assassin, Death Trooper, Sith Trooper team I think. Have Assassin give team TM and ST taunts, with tons of aoe for TM reduction, heal Immunity, and deathmark. 30% offense increase for everybody.... Oh and each toon either has massive health, stealth, or evasion bonus. Even if you could make an easy decision who to kill first, you'd have a hard time getting around ST.

    I do think in the end that these two (SA & ST) shine the brightest when paired together
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