Poe Dameron balancing

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EA_Jesse
663 posts SWGOH Dev Team
Greetings heroes,

We wanted to take a few moments to talk to you about a very hot topic here on the forums, Poe Dameron.

There have been numerous posts about this character and how our recent changes aren’t enough and that he will still be “OP”. We are reading each and every one of your posts, so know that you are being heard.

As you saw in the update notes, we are making some balance changes to Poe Dameron as a first step. We will continue to monitor how Poe performs in squads after the update, and if needed we will make additional changes. We’re taking an approach of slowly adjusting characters if we feel they are too powerful instead of making changes that may be too drastic.
Community Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes | Follow me on Twitter - Darokaz

Replies

  • Options
    Reasonable step, incremental changes.
    Ally Code: 945-699-762
  • Phipps
    1107 posts Member
    Options
    Appreciate this being addressed and that it will continue to be actively monitored
  • cosmicturtle333
    5004 posts Member
    edited February 2016
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    Are you going to do anything about this?
    TahLnzM.png

    In my opinion the problem isn't Poe, it's the ability to see who does or doesn't have Poe. From this (small and biased) poll you can see that it is a 50/50 split between being liked or disliked. Would you really implement a new feature when half of the playerbase is against it.
    My name is cosmicturtle333, aka CT-333, aka Threes.
  • Options
    This is good. Take the recent patch for Battlefront as an example…I'm not saying DICE did poorly to nerf practically every star card in Battlefront, because overall it was good, but cases like the bow caster are good examples of how devs can go too far with a nerf.
  • Zerx
    94 posts Member
    Options
    I would have liked to see a more impactful change but I respect your approach.
  • Triqui
    2790 posts Member
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    Glad to hear you still monitor it.
    I, for one, will reduce noise for a while. I guess you have in-game data (such as number of Poe teams in each bracket and such). I suggest, as a constructive criticism, that you should try to check the % of attacks against non-Poe teams, once we can see enemy composition. It will give you a clear perspective of the player base POV about the difficulty of facing Poe, compared to any other character in the game.

    Kudos to the team for the last week or so. Huge improvements in communication, and the new content seems great. The forum is clearly excited with the new Jedi Challenge, and that's great
  • Zerx
    94 posts Member
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    Triqui wrote: »

    Kudos to the team for the last week or so. Huge improvements in communication, and the new content seems great. The forum is clearly excited with the new Jedi Challenge, and that's great

    Ditto that.
  • Options
    Thanks for the post, great to hear your reading all posts. Keep up the great work :)
  • Options
    I simply think Poe's taunt must not effect enemy turn meter. By all means increasing his own and/or teammates turn meters would be fine. But the fact he reduces all opposition turn meters? That skill in itself is highly OP
  • JohnnySteelAlpha
    2794 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Options
    This is actually good. Learned from the Barriss issue - have to give credit there. She was way overbalanced. I do agree that Poe's role in the game after the adjustment is essentially unchanged - he will still be as powerful as he is today and perform the same function - but as long as they are open to re-visiting a toon, than incremental steps is definitely the best way to go. At first glance I had the same reaction and was a tad disappointed he wasn't chopped more - honestly he could lose the meter yank completely and he'd still be top tier - but after now seeing the explanation and the approach it makes sense why CG took that babysteps here. Long-term, we don't want characters over-nerfed.
  • Options
    Lesson learned all the way from backlash to nerfing to an increase in communication. Great job guys. Reasonable approach to the situation.
  • Heisen
    364 posts Member
    edited February 2016
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    Yes, I figured you guys are being more cautious after the Barriss incident, but maybe a tad too cautious now lol. Anyways, I'm glad to hear you guys are listening and will continue to monitor, so thanks!
  • Options
    The problem is his speed!
  • Options
    This thread is 7*
  • reizse
    1447 posts Member
    Options
    nice! either way, i'm still having fun.
    mighty chlorians
  • Options
    Are you going to do anything about this?
    TahLnzM.png

    In my opinion the problem isn't Poe, it's the ability to see who does or doesn't have Poe. From this (small and biased) poll you can see that it is a 50/50 split between being liked or disliked. Would you really implement a new feature when half of the playerbase is against it.

    I'm sorry but you're just wrong. Poe has been the problem for a long time, seeing peoples teams isn't a bigger problem, its a step in the right direction. Seeing the team you are facing allows you to try and counter them instead of having to waste one battle to figure out their team. And a poll of <200 people is hardly representative of the playerbase. The ability to see who has or who doesn't have Poe hasn't even been introduced in the game yet the Poe Problem has been around for a while now. Honestly can't see where you are coming from here.
  • Options
    ;;;;
    Well I just hope the changes aren't too big
    But I think it's great that EA are listening and considering feelings of the players. Poe Dameron has been an issue for a lot of people. Even though I don't necessarily agree with nerfing him, it will help a lot of people get around the issue
  • Options
    EA_Jesse wrote: »
    Greetings heroes,

    We wanted to take a few moments to talk to you about a very hot topic here on the forums, Poe Dameron.

    There have been numerous posts about this character and how our recent changes aren’t enough and that he will still be “OP”. We are reading each and every one of your posts, so know that you are being heard.

    As you saw in the update notes, we are making some balance changes to Poe Dameron as a first step. We will continue to monitor how Poe performs in squads after the update, and if needed we will make additional changes. We’re taking an approach of slowly adjusting characters if we feel they are too powerful instead of making changes that may be too drastic.

    Love the communication Jesse, I have to ask though if you guys do decide that the changes weren't enough and Poe should take another hit would it be likely that it would be done in a mini-patch? Or would we have to wait a month or two for it to be changed in a big patch?
  • Qeltar
    4326 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Options
    I'm not going to shoot the messenger here -- Jesse didn't make this decision -- so consider this addressed to the development team in general and not him.
    I find this ludicrous.
    It's not like the issues with Poe just popped up last week. It's been going on for the better part of a month now. For weeks we've been told "we are carefully monitoring the situation" and "we have access to lots of data you do not" and "just wait for the update". Then the update falls and they completely miss the entire point of what the problem is with him. He still is super fast, he still taunts, he still messes with turn meters.
    And we are told again "we are carefully monitoring the situation". Sigh.
    This is also the first major update in 2 months and it contains virtually no overall balance improvements. 2 months and all of 8 characters were addressed? Really? Asajj Ventress, who was almost too slow to use, gets nerfed. Dozens of other characters that are totally underpowered, completely ignored. Where are the fixes to characters like Finn, Ahsoka, and so many others?
    But the worst part is we are still stuck with a turn based game in which people don't get turns. Before to survive you needed Poe and lots of DPS. Now to survive you need Poe and lots of DPS. Build diversity has gone down the toilet and absolutely nothing was done.
    I know people who have invested tons of resources into alternative teams who are now on the verge of quitting. The complete lack of fixing of Poe, combined with everyone's team being visible before combat, will even further reduce diversity.
    Most of the update is wonderful. But you guys are completely blowing build balance, and that's going to undermine much of the progress.
    ETA: If you were just waiting for me to cave and unlock and spend resources on Poe, okay, I am willing to take one for the team. I've done it, so now that I have him can you please fix him? :)
    Quit 7/14/16. Best of luck to all of you.
  • Options
    Qeltar wrote: »
    I'm not going to shoot the messenger here -- Jesse didn't make this decision -- so consider this addressed to the development team in general and not him.
    I find this ludicrous.
    It's not like the issues with Poe just popped up last week. It's been going on for the better part of a month now. For weeks we've been told "we are carefully monitoring the situation" and "we have access to lots of data you do not" and "just wait for the update". Then the update falls and they completely miss the entire point of what the problem is with him. He still is super fast, he still taunts, he still messes with turn meters.
    And we are told again "we are carefully monitoring the situation". Sigh.
    This is also the first major update in 2 months and it contains virtually no overall balance improvements. 2 months and all of 8 characters were addressed? Really? Asajj Ventress, who was almost too slow to use, gets nerfed. Dozens of other characters that are totally underpowered, completely ignored. Where are the fixes to characters like Finn, Ahsoka, and so many others?
    But the worst part is we are still stuck with a turn based game in which people don't get turns. Before to survive you needed Poe and lots of DPS. Now to survive you need Poe and lots of DPS. Build diversity has gone down the toilet and absolutely nothing was done.
    I know people who have invested tons of resources into alternative teams who are now on the verge of quitting. The complete lack of fixing of Poe, combined with everyone's team being visible before combat, will even further reduce diversity.
    Most of the update is wonderful. But you guys are completely blowing build balance, and that's going to undermine much of the progress.
    ETA: If you were just waiting for me to cave and unlock and spend resources on Poe, okay, I am willing to take one for the team. I've done it, so now that I have him can you please fix him? :)

    THIS.
  • Options
    Dammag wrote: »
    Are you going to do anything about this?
    TahLnzM.png

    In my opinion the problem isn't Poe, it's the ability to see who does or doesn't have Poe. From this (small and biased) poll you can see that it is a 50/50 split between being liked or disliked. Would you really implement a new feature when half of the playerbase is against it.

    I'm sorry but you're just wrong. Poe has been the problem for a long time, seeing peoples teams isn't a bigger problem, its a step in the right direction. Seeing the team you are facing allows you to try and counter them instead of having to waste one battle to figure out their team. And a poll of <200 people is hardly representative of the playerbase. The ability to see who has or who doesn't have Poe hasn't even been introduced in the game yet the Poe Problem has been around for a while now. Honestly can't see where you are coming from here.

    I do want Poe to be nerfed as well, and I said the poll was flawed.

    A proper Poe nerf could be one,two or even more months away. Whereas this new feature might not be included in the next update if enough people vote against it. Or, it might be redacted if enough people dislike it.

    I don't really care that Poe is OP right now to be honest, and I don't really care if people can see my arena team, but when those two are combined I believe it will ruin Arena for me.

    Go vote if you want your opinion known.
    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/10056/do-you-think-the-ability-to-see-your-enemys-team-in-arena-is-good-or-bad#latest
    My name is cosmicturtle333, aka CT-333, aka Threes.
  • Preemo_Magin
    1826 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Options
    EA_Jesse wrote: »
    Greetings heroes,

    We wanted to take a few moments to talk to you about a very hot topic here on the forums, Poe Dameron.

    There have been numerous posts about this character and how our recent changes aren’t enough and that he will still be “OP”. We are reading each and every one of your posts, so know that you are being heard.

    As you saw in the update notes, we are making some balance changes to Poe Dameron as a first step. We will continue to monitor how Poe performs in squads after the update, and if needed we will make additional changes. We’re taking an approach of slowly adjusting characters if we feel they are too powerful instead of making changes that may be too drastic.

    @EA_Jesse why not also make those that own him part of the conversation? I had Barris and now never for any reason use her in Arena, regular missions, Cantina, challenges or awywhere else. I don't face her ever in Arena either - she is gone, completely and forever. Verified fornthe top 100 in any level 70 Arena.

    Once a weeak she may be part of a B squad in GW.

    I feel farmable chars need be considered as acquirable by anyone. All the loyal players that build a strategy around chars, like Poe, deserve a char that is good.

    Dooku got extreme attention, and may very well be the most frequently addressed char. But as tou become really good, you start to see there are so many counters.

    Sid, Phasma (as nee as Poe) and many other chars are found as often if not more iften that Poe. QGJ will be found more often than Poe.

    Hope you monitor and balance, but I see many posters as having made their minds they will become so combative until you destroy the char, like what was done with Barris.

    If Poe acts after most chars, he will be useless. And my if us spent $100-300 in Cantina refills for him.

  • Options
    Qeltar wrote: »
    I'm not going to shoot the messenger here -- Jesse didn't make this decision -- so consider this addressed to the development team in general and not him.
    I find this ludicrous.
    It's not like the issues with Poe just popped up last week. It's been going on for the better part of a month now. For weeks we've been told "we are carefully monitoring the situation" and "we have access to lots of data you do not" and "just wait for the update". Then the update falls and they completely miss the entire point of what the problem is with him. He still is super fast, he still taunts, he still messes with turn meters.
    And we are told again "we are carefully monitoring the situation". Sigh.
    This is also the first major update in 2 months and it contains virtually no overall balance improvements. 2 months and all of 8 characters were addressed? Really? Asajj Ventress, who was almost too slow to use, gets nerfed. Dozens of other characters that are totally underpowered, completely ignored. Where are the fixes to characters like Finn, Ahsoka, and so many others?
    But the worst part is we are still stuck with a turn based game in which people don't get turns. Before to survive you needed Poe and lots of DPS. Now to survive you need Poe and lots of DPS. Build diversity has gone down the toilet and absolutely nothing was done.
    I know people who have invested tons of resources into alternative teams who are now on the verge of quitting. The complete lack of fixing of Poe, combined with everyone's team being visible before combat, will even further reduce diversity.
    Most of the update is wonderful. But you guys are completely blowing build balance, and that's going to undermine much of the progress.
    ETA: If you were just waiting for me to cave and unlock and spend resources on Poe, okay, I am willing to take one for the team. I've done it, so now that I have him can you please fix him? :)

    For the love of god man, just give it up. Go write a guide or something.
  • Qeltar
    4326 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Options
    And to make a point others have made: it's not just the completely "what were they thinking" changes to Poe that people are unhappy about. It's that you guys still don't get that damage is overdone relative to health. The teams that win one-shot the other guys before they can do anything. Defense doesn't matter. Health barely matters -- you might get two-shot instead of one-shot. Defense up buffs? Completely useless.
    I didn't want to build a Poe/droid team like everyone else. I like defensive teams. They are completely useless in this game. When are you guys going to realize that having multiple characters that can one-shot half the other team before they get a turn forces everyone to run these teams?
    What is the point of buffing characters like Mace and Oppress when it's going to be Poe taunt, Poggle special, IG-88 AoE for 6k followed by IG-86 assist for 12k and they'll be dead anyway?
    Why have the nightsisters been almost completely neglected? Why should a character that moves half as often as another do half as much damage per hit?
    Do you guys really only care about turn meters and massive crits?
    Quit 7/14/16. Best of luck to all of you.
  • Options
    @EA_Jesse @CG_JohnSalera why would devs create balance by reducing the target OP toon of the month in these forums? I believe this happened before with Barriss.

    I contend that Sid is much more OP, same with Lea, FOTP, Genosian... Need I go on? All of which I have myself.

    People want to complain that they were in the top 10 when they started and now they can't because of Poe. This will just continue until every character has his month in the OP post tirades of those who aren't winning.

    I've been supportive, even in this last update although it devalues something I spent my own real money on. Changing bugs with the way Phasma was intended to work is different than catering to those who complain the most.

    Had they focused on Poe rather than Sid they would be crying for a nerf of Sid or whoever they don't have or don't want to use.
  • Options
    Are you going to do anything about this?
    TahLnzM.png

    In my opinion the problem isn't Poe, it's the ability to see who does or doesn't have Poe. From this (small and biased) poll you can see that it is a 50/50 split between being liked or disliked. Would you really implement a new feature when half of the playerbase is against it.

    What I see here is a pretty even split.
  • Options
    I know people who have invested tons of resources into alternative teams who are now on the verge of quitting.

    This X 1000

    People have been punished for going out on a limb.
    My name is cosmicturtle333, aka CT-333, aka Threes.
  • Options
    Are you going to do anything about this?
    TahLnzM.png

    In my opinion the problem isn't Poe, it's the ability to see who does or doesn't have Poe. From this (small and biased) poll you can see that it is a 50/50 split between being liked or disliked. Would you really implement a new feature when half of the playerbase is against it.

    What I see here is a pretty even split.

    Another example of those who fear they are too underpowered to actually achieve what they rightfully deserve.

  • Qeltar
    4326 posts Member
    Options
    What I see here is a pretty even split.

    What you see is 2 wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    Quit 7/14/16. Best of luck to all of you.
  • J7000
    2059 posts Member
    Options
    I don't even care what you guys nerf anymore.. Team Nerf is just gonna push and push until they get what they want. The fact that the devs are nerfing Poe AND have announced they will nerf again still isn't good enough for these clowns. Do what you wish. Buffing is so much more interesting and creative imo. Keep caving to forum rage and well, good luck. Long live Bariss.
This discussion has been closed.