Poe Dameron balancing

Replies

  • J7000
    2059 posts Member
    Qeltar wrote: »
    [This is not like the Barriss nerf but lighter. This would be like Barriss being considered too good of a healer, so you reduce the proc rate of Swift Recovery.

    That would have been proper as Barris - by all stats, evidence and consensus is a char that does not belong in Arena PVP at any high rank.

    Contrary to this, Sid leads 22 of my Arena top 50, with (my own numbers until we can see compositions) another 15 people there using him with a Phasma lead. That's 37 out of 50. Barris is in 0 of these teams.

    What gives you the entitlement to openly question Cg in bold letter every single chance you have and loudly and incesantly about this?

    It affects me, and affects everyone that has Poe even if they don't use it, or say they can counter It. And also thise that already stated they don't have it and have no problem with Poe.

    Again,

    1) Sid is in maybe 70% of teams in TOP 50 Arena.
    2) They just nerfed a character they sold as part of a $100 bundle,Thed where thise that missed it may have used $100 or much more to acquire Poe faster
    3) We have evidence thus that being frequently used is not a reason for nerf (Sid).
    4) We know CG wants to avoid having a char like Barris, from being usable (and she was in now way OP) to being not used by anyone.
    5) they want to take time to monitor things

    I applaud the developers for not giving in and taking their time. And I would love them to do what they thinknis RIGHT not what they think the most vocal Forum-Warriors want.

    You make too much sense for the warriors to even understand. They actually think that they represent all and the only people that disagree with them must be consuming infants for breakfast.
  • MenaceTEC wrote: »
    I know people who have invested tons of resources into alternative teams who are now on the verge of quitting.

    This X 1000

    People have been punished for going out on a limb.

    Yet another example of people only wanting what they have to be the best.

    That isn't true at all, I went into this game knowing I wasn't using the best Heroes, but I also knew that I had a decent chance of ranking fairly high, and I have done so. But with the skirt lifting change now anyone who isn't using a cookie cutter build will be crushed. It's as simple as that.

    I don't know what server you are in but in my there's a great variety of squads. So I wonder myself why your server and mine differ so much.
  • @EA_Jesse nerf poe and $100 refund of the force awakens package will come. be careful....
  • EA_Jesse wrote: »
    Greetings heroes,

    We wanted to take a few moments to talk to you about a very hot topic here on the forums, Poe Dameron.

    There have been numerous posts about this character and how our recent changes aren’t enough and that he will still be “OP”. We are reading each and every one of your posts, so know that you are being heard.

    As you saw in the update notes, we are making some balance changes to Poe Dameron as a first step. We will continue to monitor how Poe performs in squads after the update, and if needed we will make additional changes. We’re taking an approach of slowly adjusting characters if we feel they are too powerful instead of making changes that may be too drastic.

    @EA_Jesse

    Can we please stop giving in to the whiners? I spent money on Barriss, whining got her nerfed. I spent time and money on Poe, he got "balanced" now they want more. Every time you give into the whining you endorse it. For crying out loud you diminished him as requested, yet they still want more. It was not enough for them. Post after post after post complaining. If you look at it though it it a very small % of posters complaining they just create post after post and bring it onto posts not even pertaining to it.

    I had to message a MOD here to close a post I made thanking you guys for the communication, the Red card and such because the same few that complain no matter what you do went there and started bringing toxicity to my positive post.

    Look I hate the cookie cutter builds Poe forces as much as the next. Yes Poe makes a team much better. Yes your BEST(not only) option to counter Poe is Poe. I will not say those things are not so, they are. To balance him put him to 142 speed make him turn 8 is what you all should have done. If you do that now though you need to put everything else back as was or else he has been severely weakened. You mentioned making less things in his gearing. Do we who already had to put all that work in get anything back to compensate for our loss? Sure we got to use him as was, but we may not have focused so much on him as he will be. Others now get the choice to, we do not.

    Jesse though guess what? Soon as these folks who are whining on Poe start seeing a geared up Rey that is Turn 7 and can obliterate any toon in 1 hit they will flood the forum again whining about cookie cutter Rey builds. Rey is just slower to farm, but once a lot have her, same thing. You can't make them happy. They will always have an OP toon to complain about because flooding the forum with complaints is easier than putting in the time, effort and work to strategize and grind for toons. So much easier to wait until really good ones are found, then get the pitchforks out and call for a nerfing at the stake.

    Look I hate to talk about P2P vs F2P but Jesse I spend a lot of money on this game and I'm tired of spending it to gear up toons with good kits only to have them nerfed because of people whining. I'm sure others who put in money to do the same are tired of their money being wasted when that toon is "balanced" due to whining. Go back to Barriss. I spent $50 on the pack, sure there was more in it. Ventress, bugged and too slow too low HP not viable in arena. Tano, same minus the bugs. I geared her up and spent far more than 500 crystals to do so, plus my cash investment. She was nerfed to whining, my money, in my opinion, wasted as what I paid for was changed. I paid for a Wagu, but what I ended up being served was Choice. Still good, but not what I paid for. I spent a ton of crystals gearing Poe up fast to stay competative. If he gets nerfed even more how can I ever justify spending on this game? F2P are important to the game, P2P are essential though as EA/CG is for profit. You keep nerfing whenever people complain and many of us will not see the point in spending money. Nerf me once shame on you, nerf me twice, shame on me, a third will not happen. I'm growing tired of spending time, energy, and money to build only to have it destroyed by whiners getting their way. As I said in other threads if you don't like it take your ball and go home. Much more pandering to the whiners that causes my time and money to have been wasted I'll be taking my own advice and taking my ball, and cash, and going home.

    By giving into the complainers you give them more power. Nerf Poe again Jesse. Wait and watch in a month, maybe less, it will be another toon being called to the nerf poll.

    I had my $800 Secura 1 hit by Rey before she went. Can we nerf Rey please? She is too fast for her output. Leia triple shot me first turn and killed my Lumi. Please nerf her. I couldn't kill FOTP and his near 14k health and he killed my team. Can we nerf him? Geo 1 hit my Sid first turn nerf him. Where does it end Jesse?


    Sorry to be negative I'm not attacking anyone here. I'm just sick of the whining. I spend money here, a decent amount and I'm sick and tired of seeing my investment damaged because people have nothing better to do than flood the forum with complaints about unfair toons and them getting downgraded. Barriss heal was beatable, Poe beatable. Nerf unbeatable. The new meta will soon be complain about a toon you can't beat or hate facing until they are nerfed,lol.

    Now just so this is not a problem only post here is a solution. You nerf a toon who someone spent money on leveling(yes I know you can check that on accounts) You give the effected player a choice of 1/2 the crystals they spent doing the shard grinding and gear grinding and they keep the toon as is, or a full crystal refund to gear and grind the toon from activation in return for that toon going back to activation level. It is unfair to gear someone only to have them nerfed due to whining.

    Ok rant over bring on the hate I'm sure to get here and I wager I know some of who will come at me for this,lol.
  • Triqui
    2790 posts Member
    reizse wrote: »
    TBH with you guys...if you make poe unusable (whether by removing his TM reduction or lowering his speed), you will quickly see the real problem behind him...it's been said a thousand times. speed + dmg in disproportionate quantities in comparison to health and defense. poe is just the icing. i've said it before, i don't care if poe gets nerfed or not. he's not part of my arena line up (lvl 27, gear 2 used in the INT challenge only). i may be a masochist when i say this..but i kind of enjoy fighting poe teams even if the chance to lose is really high.

    whatever.
    poe was usable, and used, before he was turn 7, with the lvl 60 cap. He was just less dominant because there was people who acted consistently before him.

    Poe at 142 speed will be useful, and used. Maybe not omnipresent as he is now, but Han is not omnipresent either, and he is not useless.

    Poe at 143 speed, but without turn meter steal, will be useful as a early taunter that protect squishier targets. He just will not be able to warp time and space and make his whole team act before the enemy blinks.

    I'm farmng Poe right now. I have no problems to join the meta and play like everybody else. He is easy to farm, that's not an issue. But his ability is problematic. FOO will be problematic in the future. Time manipulation so early in the game is not a good design. It leads to all kind of broken possibilities and it opens the door to turn 1 winning combos. And turn 1 winning combos are a bad thing.
  • Qeltar wrote: »
    And to make a point others have made: it's not just the completely "what were they thinking" changes to Poe that people are unhappy about. It's that you guys still don't get that damage is overdone relative to health. The teams that win one-shot the other guys before they can do anything. Defense doesn't matter. Health barely matters -- you might get two-shot instead of one-shot. Defense up buffs? Completely useless.
    I didn't want to build a Poe/droid team like everyone else. I like defensive teams. They are completely useless in this game. When are you guys going to realize that having multiple characters that can one-shot half the other team before they get a turn forces everyone to run these teams?
    What is the point of buffing characters like Mace and Oppress when it's going to be Poe taunt, Poggle special, IG-88 AoE for 6k followed by IG-86 assist for 12k and they'll be dead anyway?
    Why have the nightsisters been almost completely neglected? Why should a character that moves half as often as another do half as much damage per hit?
    Do you guys really only care about turn meters and massive crits?

    I will agree with you my friend. Damage vs health needs balancing. I do not think any toon should be able to 1 hit any toon there is. In my bracket I am not ever in a fight over 90 seconds unless I'm clock milking,lol. Either I or my opponent is dead usually in a minute. Lumi's big heal most my team puts out more damage that it heals for, same with my opponents.

    I agree wholeheartedly Qeltar that the damage/health needs a big time balance. Be it to lower damage output, or to raise health.
  • EA_Jesse wrote: »
    Greetings heroes,

    We wanted to take a few moments to talk to you about a very hot topic here on the forums, Poe Dameron.

    There have been numerous posts about this character and how our recent changes aren’t enough and that he will still be “OP”. We are reading each and every one of your posts, so know that you are being heard.

    As you saw in the update notes, we are making some balance changes to Poe Dameron as a first step. We will continue to monitor how Poe performs in squads after the update, and if needed we will make additional changes. We’re taking an approach of slowly adjusting characters if we feel they are too powerful instead of making changes that may be too drastic.

    @EA_Jesse why not also make those that own him part of the conversation? I had Barris and now never for any reason use her in Arena, regular missions, Cantina, challenges or awywhere else. I don't face her ever in Arena either - she is gone, completely and forever. Verified fornthe top 100 in any level 70 Arena.

    Once a weeak she may be part of a B squad in GW.

    I feel farmable chars need be considered as acquirable by anyone. All the loyal players that build a strategy around chars, like Poe, deserve a char that is good.

    Dooku got extreme attention, and may very well be the most frequently addressed char. But as tou become really good, you start to see there are so many counters.

    Sid, Phasma (as nee as Poe) and many other chars are found as often if not more iften that Poe. QGJ will be found more often than Poe.

    Hope you monitor and balance, but I see many posters as having made their minds they will become so combative until you destroy the char, like what was done with Barris.

    If Poe acts after most chars, he will be useless. And my if us spent $100-300 in Cantina refills for him.

    Agree.
  • It is ironic to me that everyone complains that Poe is OP because everyone uses him but no one says a word one about Lumi or Sid who are also on practically every single team (does that mean they are broken too? Or, are they just good characters like Poe?).
  • Qeltar
    4326 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    It is ironic to me that everyone complains that Poe is OP because everyone uses him but no one says a word one about Lumi or Sid who are also on practically every single team (does that mean they are broken too? Or, are they just good characters like Poe?).

    I actually see Lumi and Sid on fewer and fewer arena teams in the top 20 or so on my shard. Poe basically eliminates the need for healers, the other guys are all dead too quickly for it to matter so they just want more output.
    As for Sid, I've been saying since December that buffing a character that was already widely used made no sense. I see him on IG-88 teams but otherwise they are using single-target one-shotters more than him. Basically, he doesn't hit hard enough.
    Regardless, neither of these guys has the ability to decide the outcome of a match the way Poe does.
    Quit 7/14/16. Best of luck to all of you.
  • Preemo_Magin
    1826 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    CUFCfan616 wrote: »
    Tanks traditionally are slow for a very good reason. I have no idea why you decided that Poe as a tank should be one of the quickest toons in the game but you've seen why no other game really does a super fast tank character. It's all strength and little weakness.

    Tanks in your sense feature LOW SPEED but AMAZING DAMAGE. Like Tanks. A BIG tanks is slow, and carries a BIG GUN. An Obj 268 can one shot a light tank. And Fv178 can do so too. A light tank can spot, flank, distract and support. Their are agile and hard to raget like a T62a or a Panther....

    Tanks in this game fire wet noodles. So unless tou give them speed, they are completely useless. Which is backed by the fact that NOBODY in the top 50 uses Chewy, Imperial Guard, etc. the only other Tank used (besides Poe) is Han and primarily due to his turn meter advance when hit - and still very rarely used.

    Also, in the spirit of your argument. If a Tanks is slow slow slow. Then how can a Tank assist a char like QGJ or GS? At which moment can he move so fast? An Assist should only be able to bring a Char that has ALREADY TAKEN AT LEAST ONE TURN. But the funny part is that when a char calls an Assist, the player wishes the assist comes from from NOT a tank, but a high damage char. In real world, this means the assist castes on FIRSt turn should do less damage than in second turn (why, because in normal world a heavy tank does a lot of damage but will NOT be ready when the light tank rushed to battled).

    But in this game, Tanks have the goal of protecting, not landing huge damage as the word implies.

    The reason Poe is the most popular Tank, is because all the other TANKS fail their job misserably and don't get to protect anybody. They also don't add damage.

    Either Tanks are fiven amazing damage, or they are protectors and should all have turn 6 or 7 speed. Then, we'd start to see different Variations (of tanks in teams that use tanks) in teams.

    If you measure how many chars of each class are used in the Arena TOP 100 Healers and Tanks are the least represented.

    Poe is the only one doing it's job, and CG just nerfed him.

    Tanks should be viable, and I want to propose to make AlL tanks fast to act early. They do little damage and must act before the heavy hitters demolish all the glasses. That the reason a category TANKS EXISTS imho.
  • poe is the only one doing it's job, and CG just nerfed him. Tanks should be viable, and I want to propose to make AlL tanks fast tonact early. They do little damage and must act before the heavy hitters demolish all the glasses. That the reason a category TANKS EXISTS imho.

    Pretty much.
  • Heisen wrote: »
    Yes, I figured you guys are being more cautious after the Barriss incident, but maybe a tad too cautious now lol. Anyways, I'm glad to hear you guys are listening and will continue to monitor, so thanks!

    I don't understand what all the fuss is about. Even after the Nerf Barriss is a very good character even at 4* especially for GW. Not everything is arena in this game. They have taken two steps so far to Nerf Poe by including QGJ in cantina shipments at once a semi Poe counter and will cause less people to invest in Poe as well as the upcoming balance changes that will drastically reduce his expose which was half the problem and how well he resists debuffs.

    I think things are fine as they are. If anything the lack of diversity is hurting the game more than any OP character. They need to add more viable toons to the shipments so people will have to decide harder what they invest in. I have a 4* Poe and I don't even use him in arena as I feel I have better options.
  • Triqui
    2790 posts Member
    It is ironic to me that everyone complains that Poe is OP because everyone uses him but no one says a word one about Lumi or Sid who are also on practically every single team (does that mean they are broken too? Or, are they just good characters like Poe?).
    Nobody complains that POE is OP because he is omnipresent. We say that Poe is OP because he can give you five actions before the enemy act just by pushing a button. And that makes him omnipresent, as a consequence. Sid and Lumi can't give you 5 actions by pressing a button, and are popular for different reasons

    You should be careful about correlations and causations. Otherwise you will end believing that buying XXL trousers makes you fat, because all fat people buy XXL trousers.
  • SinnerWill
    370 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Poe isn't the true problem, he simply puts a magnifying glass to the over performance of certain high-speed, extreme damage-dealing units by permitting them to attack consecutively. Phasma (as a leader) does the exact same thing (and to an even more significant degree, usually) but since it depends on top-speed units to be noticeable, it's less obvious.

    Basically, if Geonosian Soldier, Qui-Gon Jin, Leia, Rey, and FOTP (the "main culprits", with few other exceptions) would actually get "toned down" a bit in terms of damage with respect to their speed, Poe wouldn't be getting called out to have his head removed.

    Reducing Poe's speed would pretty much remove his purpose overall (only character capable of potentially getting his taunt off in time to keep high speed, high-damage units from killing your "squishies" outright). Removing his turn-meter decrease would be "whatever" in my opinion, though, since I don't much care for the whole "glass-cannon" (yet they certainly aren't made of glass) setup, so if that floats your boat, go for it, but you sure as Helen better do something about Phasma's leader ability to compensate for its over-performance (with these same exact "culprits" mostly, but extends to even more characters) as well, then.
  • Instead of a general broad nedt, many auggest a general buff. Instead of many chars do less, letnit char have +15 HP. That alone will make healers viable and avoid 70% of one shots. Tou can nerf healers 15%, by why do? Healers are useless in Arena (just as Tanks - except Poe) as can be seen by the sheer amount of teams that don't have any in a competitive arena. Only Luminara is used (rarely) and Daka - who can heal a bit but is used for her stun/revive and speed.
  • reizse
    1447 posts Member
    Triqui wrote: »
    reizse wrote: »
    TBH with you guys...if you make poe unusable (whether by removing his TM reduction or lowering his speed), you will quickly see the real problem behind him...it's been said a thousand times. speed + dmg in disproportionate quantities in comparison to health and defense. poe is just the icing. i've said it before, i don't care if poe gets nerfed or not. he's not part of my arena line up (lvl 27, gear 2 used in the INT challenge only). i may be a masochist when i say this..but i kind of enjoy fighting poe teams even if the chance to lose is really high.

    whatever.
    poe was usable, and used, before he was turn 7, with the lvl 60 cap. He was just less dominant because there was people who acted consistently before him.

    Poe at 142 speed will be useful, and used. Maybe not omnipresent as he is now, but Han is not omnipresent either, and he is not useless.

    Poe at 143 speed, but without turn meter steal, will be useful as a early taunter that protect squishier targets. He just will not be able to warp time and space and make his whole team act before the enemy blinks.

    I'm farmng Poe right now. I have no problems to join the meta and play like everybody else. He is easy to farm, that's not an issue. But his ability is problematic. FOO will be problematic in the future. Time manipulation so early in the game is not a good design. It leads to all kind of broken possibilities and it opens the door to turn 1 winning combos. And turn 1 winning combos are a bad thing.

    i was playing devil's advocate..hehe. i can't be 100% certain, but even i doubt that poe will be 'useless' if he's turn 8 or had TM reduction removed.

    in the end, poe just exposed (hehe) what i see as the real issue...too much damage, not enough mitigation.

    foo and han are both on my team since they allow me to beat poe teams (4/5 wins today..2 matches on 100% auto to see how my team would behave on defense). i can see foo next in line to be considered 'OP' once he gets to turn 7 speed. i don't want to feel like i wasted my time and resources on 7* starring him if he's adjusted in the same fashion that poe is right now. i can only imagine how frustrated poe owners are feeling after building him up. no one likes to see their hard work destroyed.
    mighty chlorians
  • It is ironic to me that everyone complains that Poe is OP because everyone uses him but no one says a word one about Lumi or Sid who are also on practically every single team (does that mean they are broken too? Or, are they just good characters like Poe?).

    They are cookie cutter too. Phasma is becoming that as well. Shall we nerf them to unusable to avoid the cookie cutter?
  • I sincerely hope that EA has taken notice that most of the threads complaining about Poe are dominated by the same two or three voices over and over again, both here and on Reddit. At least they were nice enough to use the same user names. Typically the squeeky wheel gets the grease, so I suspect that's what will happen here.

    Poe JUST received a nerf. Like YESTERDAY. NO ONE HAS EVEN EXPERIMENTED WITH OR AGAINST NERFED POE. And yet I can't visit the forum without reading a million posts by the same handful of guys who loaded up on healers and slow characters, and want the game changed to suit their crappy team builds. Enjoy the galactic war game mode, I'm sure you'll dominate there. Glass cannon teams have a much harder time in GW.

    Instead of stubbornly continuing to expect the game to change to suit your team, why not adjust your plans on the fly and get out in front of whatever the new meta will be? If you're so great at understanding the effects of the balancing changes--and as an aside I think Asajj will now be a better character than she was pre-update--then CAPITALIZE on your brilliance and acquire the good characters while jettisoning the bad players.
  • Qeltar wrote: »
    It is ironic to me that everyone complains that Poe is OP because everyone uses him but no one says a word one about Lumi or Sid who are also on practically every single team (does that mean they are broken too? Or, are they just good characters like Poe?).

    I actually see Lumi and Sid on fewer and fewer arena teams in the top 20 or so on my shard. Poe basically eliminates the need for healers, the other guys are all dead too quickly for it to matter so they just want more output.
    As for Sid, I've been saying since December that buffing a character that was already widely used made no sense. I see him on IG-88 teams but otherwise they are using single-target one-shotters more than him. Basically, he doesn't hit hard enough.
    Regardless, neither of these guys has the ability to decide the outcome of a match the way Poe does.

    10 out of 12 teams run Sid as leader.
  • How you handle Poe will set up an example of how CG interacts with players.

    There is a bad case which is possible. If you listen too much from whales and nerf powerful characters that "paying but not whale" players have spent months invested in, they might leave the game.

    So please be very cautious when nerfing Poe if you don't want to lose paying players but not whales.
  • I made this up in case anyone was wondering what I face in a daily basis at just below rank 100 in a server that started late November.

    Recently I have seen the Poe and high DPS teams coming through, so people are leveling them up as we speak to swap them for their current arena teams.

    Thus is just a feeling, and is no way an actual statistic.


    Aayla Secura 0
    Admiral Ackbar 0
    Ahsoka Tano 1
    Asajj Ventress 1
    Barriss Offee 2
    Biggs Darklighter 1
    Boba Fett 5
    Cad Bane 0
    Captain Phasma 75
    Clone Sergeant 0
    Clone Wars Chewbacca 3
    Coruscant Underworld Police 0
    Count Dooku 25
    CT-5555 Fives 3
    Darth Maul 0
    Darth Sidious 90
    Darth Vader 20
    Dathcha 0
    Eeth Koth 0
    Ewok Elder 0
    Ewok Scout 0
    Finn 1
    First Order Officer 0
    First Order Stormtrooper 0
    First Order TIE Pilot 15
    General Veers 0
    Geonosian Soldier 15
    Grand Moff Tarkin 0
    Greedo 3
    HK-47 5
    Hoth Rebel Scout 0
    Hoth Rebel Soldier 0
    IG-100 MagnaGuard 0
    IG-86 Sentinel Droid 10
    IG-88 9
    Ima-Gun Di 0
    Jawa 0
    Jedi Consular 6
    Jedi Knight Anakin 0
    Jedi Knight Guardian 0
    Kit Fisto 0
    Kylo Ren 40
    Lando Calrissian 0
    Lobot 0
    Luke Skywalker 3
    Luminara Unduli 85
    Mace Windu 0
    Mob Enforcer 0
    Nightsister Acolyte 0
    Nightsister Initiate 1
    Nute Gunray 0
    Obi-Wan Kenobi (Old Ben) 0
    Old Daka 17
    Plo Koon 0
    Poe Dameron 20
    Poggle the Lesser 15
    Princess Leia 0
    Qui-Gon Jinn 10
    Resistance Pilot 0
    Resistance Trooper 0
    Rey 4
    Royal Guard 0
    Savage Opress 1
    Snowtrooper 0
    Stormtrooper Han 0
    Stormtrooper 0
    Talia 1
    Teebo 0
    Tusken Raider 0
    Ugnaught 0
    URoRRuR'R'R 0
    My name is cosmicturtle333, aka CT-333, aka Threes.
  • Triqui
    2790 posts Member
    I agree that defensive skills and defensive characters need a buff. There's not a real defensive character that I can think he's worthy of a top arena spot, except Old Ben. Armor in particular is a joke. Maybe it's just my own confirmation bias, but I think the damage done to the top armor guys like fives is basically the same that the damage done to the celler dwellers like Qi Gon Jin or Poggle. Only HP matter in the defensive end, armor and resistance offer little difference.
  • Are you going to do anything about this?
    TahLnzM.png

    In my opinion the problem isn't Poe, it's the ability to see who does or doesn't have Poe. From this (small and biased) poll you can see that it is a 50/50 split between being liked or disliked. Would you really implement a new feature when half of the playerbase is against it.

    What I see here is a pretty even split.

    Exactly. It is evenly split. That means 1/2 of all of the players who voted dislike the change. Will CG implement a new feature that half of the players dislike?

    What makes your half better than the other half? Not to be rude or a **** here but I bet if you took the money spent on the opposing sides that the money spent on the side saying leave Poe alone is quite a lot higher. This is a business after all. Be careful with the nerf stick as those players who are spending significantly may grow weary of it and move on. At that point it won't matter the game dies.
  • reizse
    1447 posts Member
    what if they made it a chance that poe (or any character) would choose any of their available skills with a higher % chance if a special is available?
    for example, chewy doesn't always taunt first chance he gets in gw. when i faced him in arena (albeit a month ago) he would always taunt first. it then becomes more of a roll of the dice, but with less inclination to taunt right off the bat? could poe owners be ok with it? as it stands with him being adjusted, i don't think people would be too happy to leave it to chance that the lynchpin in their strategy acted randomly
    mighty chlorians
  • DraxalArmadine
    106 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    I think I understand! We should wait 6 months to a year to get all the unbalancing issues taken care of! Then we can play a fair and balanced game without wasting time and resources to get specific toons and strats to our liking! How silly of us to not get this right off the bat! Every single game I have ever played does the same thing. Release a toon..Toon is OP'd.. People spend to buff toon and make great..Toon hit with nerf bat. Rinse repeat and collect their money on next toon...

    Mark my words and see how Yoda goes.. Yoda is awesome.. people cry omg hes too powerful.. people spend a fortune to make him great..Yoda hit with nerf bat...Yoda dodges and evades "cause Yoda is ...well Yoda. Devs use source code "force" to hold him still.. NERF BAT SMACK... next toon please!
  • Barrok
    1753 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Here is how I would change Poe. I think it would make even @Qeltar happy, though that is friggin tough to do, so maybe not.

    Resistance Bravado

    Taunt for 2 turns with a 65% chance to Expose each enemy for 2 turns. For each Resistance member on Poe's team, reduce the enemies turn meter by 5%.

    (4 turn cooldown)

    So, max turn meter reduction is 25% still, BUT that requires all 5 resistance members. Finn is garbage (not as garbage as the millennium falcon..) so you can remove 5% from that list. Resistance trooper is hard to get, so remove another 5%. Rey is hard to get but everyone is going for her, and resistance pilot is easy to get.

    If for some reason all 5 are on the same team, you still see 25% reduction, BUT Poe and Rey are already turn 7 hero's so that doesn't make them go faster, Finn is 107 i think, and pilot 115, trooper 121. So, even at 25% I don't think many teams are exactly worried about fighting this team. No doubt it is good, but you could make a case that running just Rey and Poe, with FOTP, sid and GS might be better.

    Anyway, my two cents. Destroy me forums, I am sure I am wrong!! :)

    PS: I would bring his tenacity back up to what it was, and I would keep the expose chance what it was. These things are vital to the resistance team.

  • Qeltar wrote: »
    [This is not like the Barriss nerf but lighter. This would be like Barriss being considered too good of a healer, so you reduce the proc rate of Swift Recovery.

    That would have been proper as Barris - by all stats, evidence and consensus is a char that does not belong in Arena PVP at any high rank.

    Contrary to this, Sid leads 22 of my Arena top 50, with (my own numbers until we can see compositions) another 15 people there using him with a Phasma lead. That's 37 out of 50. Barris is in 0 of these teams.

    What gives you the entitlement to openly question Cg in bold letter every single chance you have and loudly and incesantly about this?

    It affects me, and affects everyone that has Poe even if they don't use it, or say they can counter It. And also thise that already stated they don't have it and have no problem with Poe.

    Again,

    1) Sid is in maybe 70% of teams in TOP 50 Arena.
    2) They just nerfed a character they sold as part of a $100 bundle, and where those that missed it may have used $100 or much more to acquire Poe faster
    3) We have evidence thus that being frequently used is not a reason for nerf (Sid).
    4) We know CG wants to avoid having a char like Barris, from being usable (and she was in no way OP) to being not used by anyone.
    5) they want to take time to monitor things

    I applaud the developers for not giving in and taking their time. And I would love them to do what they think is RIGHT not what they think the most vocal Forum-Warriors want.

    I rhink the Barris nerf was partnof a learning process. I don't think they wanted a char that nobody that competes in Arena will never use. They cannot know in advance what will happen. And want to be FAIR and GOOD LiSTENERs more than they want to decide which side of their player base to unjustly affect. What is right should take precedence.

    Agree
  • J7000
    2059 posts Member
    EA_Jesse wrote: »
    Greetings heroes,

    We wanted to take a few moments to talk to you about a very hot topic here on the forums, Poe Dameron.

    There have been numerous posts about this character and how our recent changes aren’t enough and that he will still be “OP”. We are reading each and every one of your posts, so know that you are being heard.

    As you saw in the update notes, we are making some balance changes to Poe Dameron as a first step. We will continue to monitor how Poe performs in squads after the update, and if needed we will make additional changes. We’re taking an approach of slowly adjusting characters if we feel they are too powerful instead of making changes that may be too drastic.

    @EA_Jesse

    Can we please stop giving in to the whiners? I spent money on Barriss, whining got her nerfed. I spent time and money on Poe, he got "balanced" now they want more. Every time you give into the whining you endorse it. For crying out loud you diminished him as requested, yet they still want more. It was not enough for them. Post after post after post complaining. If you look at it though it it a very small % of posters complaining they just create post after post and bring it onto posts not even pertaining to it.

    I had to message a MOD here to close a post I made thanking you guys for the communication, the Red card and such because the same few that complain no matter what you do went there and started bringing toxicity to my positive post.

    Look I hate the cookie cutter builds Poe forces as much as the next. Yes Poe makes a team much better. Yes your BEST(not only) option to counter Poe is Poe. I will not say those things are not so, they are. To balance him put him to 142 speed make him turn 8 is what you all should have done. If you do that now though you need to put everything else back as was or else he has been severely weakened. You mentioned making less things in his gearing. Do we who already had to put all that work in get anything back to compensate for our loss? Sure we got to use him as was, but we may not have focused so much on him as he will be. Others now get the choice to, we do not.

    Jesse though guess what? Soon as these folks who are whining on Poe start seeing a geared up Rey that is Turn 7 and can obliterate any toon in 1 hit they will flood the forum again whining about cookie cutter Rey builds. Rey is just slower to farm, but once a lot have her, same thing. You can't make them happy. They will always have an OP toon to complain about because flooding the forum with complaints is easier than putting in the time, effort and work to strategize and grind for toons. So much easier to wait until really good ones are found, then get the pitchforks out and call for a nerfing at the stake.

    Look I hate to talk about P2P vs F2P but Jesse I spend a lot of money on this game and I'm tired of spending it to gear up toons with good kits only to have them nerfed because of people whining. I'm sure others who put in money to do the same are tired of their money being wasted when that toon is "balanced" due to whining. Go back to Barriss. I spent $50 on the pack, sure there was more in it. Ventress, bugged and too slow too low HP not viable in arena. Tano, same minus the bugs. I geared her up and spent far more than 500 crystals to do so, plus my cash investment. She was nerfed to whining, my money, in my opinion, wasted as what I paid for was changed. I paid for a Wagu, but what I ended up being served was Choice. Still good, but not what I paid for. I spent a ton of crystals gearing Poe up fast to stay competative. If he gets nerfed even more how can I ever justify spending on this game? F2P are important to the game, P2P are essential though as EA/CG is for profit. You keep nerfing whenever people complain and many of us will not see the point in spending money. Nerf me once shame on you, nerf me twice, shame on me, a third will not happen. I'm growing tired of spending time, energy, and money to build only to have it destroyed by whiners getting their way. As I said in other threads if you don't like it take your ball and go home. Much more pandering to the whiners that causes my time and money to have been wasted I'll be taking my own advice and taking my ball, and cash, and going home.

    By giving into the complainers you give them more power. Nerf Poe again Jesse. Wait and watch in a month, maybe less, it will be another toon being called to the nerf poll.

    I had my $800 Secura 1 hit by Rey before she went. Can we nerf Rey please? She is too fast for her output. Leia triple shot me first turn and killed my Lumi. Please nerf her. I couldn't kill FOTP and his near 14k health and he killed my team. Can we nerf him? Geo 1 hit my Sid first turn nerf him. Where does it end Jesse?


    Sorry to be negative I'm not attacking anyone here. I'm just sick of the whining. I spend money here, a decent amount and I'm sick and tired of seeing my investment damaged because people have nothing better to do than flood the forum with complaints about unfair toons and them getting downgraded. Barriss heal was beatable, Poe beatable. Nerf unbeatable. The new meta will soon be complain about a toon you can't beat or hate facing until they are nerfed,lol.

    Now just so this is not a problem only post here is a solution. You nerf a toon who someone spent money on leveling(yes I know you can check that on accounts) You give the effected player a choice of 1/2 the crystals they spent doing the shard grinding and gear grinding and they keep the toon as is, or a full crystal refund to gear and grind the toon from activation in return for that toon going back to activation level. It is unfair to gear someone only to have them nerfed due to whining.

    Ok rant over bring on the hate I'm sure to get here and I wager I know some of who will come at me for this,lol.

    No hate from me. You are exactly right.
  • goobstoob wrote: »
    my two cents is if you **** about something trying to get what you want, you should automatically not get what you want. i don't care what it is, this world is too full of complainers that get what they want bc they make the most noise. dont nerf anyone! just play

    +infinity amen
  • Triqui wrote: »
    reizse wrote: »
    TBH with you guys...if you make poe unusable (whether by removing his TM reduction or lowering his speed), you will quickly see the real problem behind him...it's been said a thousand times. speed + dmg in disproportionate quantities in comparison to health and defense. poe is just the icing. i've said it before, i don't care if poe gets nerfed or not. he's not part of my arena line up (lvl 27, gear 2 used in the INT challenge only). i may be a masochist when i say this..but i kind of enjoy fighting poe teams even if the chance to lose is really high.

    whatever.
    poe was usable, and used, before he was turn 7, with the lvl 60 cap. He was just less dominant because there was people who acted consistently before him.

    Poe at 142 speed will be useful, and used. Maybe not omnipresent as he is now, but Han is not omnipresent either, and he is not useless.

    Poe at 143 speed, but without turn meter steal, will be useful as a early taunter that protect squishier targets. He just will not be able to warp time and space and make his whole team act before the enemy blinks.

    I'm farmng Poe right now. I have no problems to join the meta and play like everybody else. He is easy to farm, that's not an issue. But his ability is problematic. FOO will be problematic in the future. Time manipulation so early in the game is not a good design. It leads to all kind of broken possibilities and it opens the door to turn 1 winning combos. And turn 1 winning combos are a bad thing.

    Turn 1 winning combos are ensures by having ALL turn 7 chars. The problem is that assining Poe to turn 8 just invalidates him as a tank to protect. The only reason turn 8 chars are usefull today is because Poe has 1 chance in 5 (for a full turn 7 team which dominated/will dominate arena) or 20% to make turn 8 glass tanks useful.

    If Poe goes to turn 8, see if you can agree, then the meta will shift to have 5 turn 7 chars like Dooku, Sid, Daka, Rey, GS, QGJ...well, that's exactly what you see at high Arena ranks.

    The ONLY reason some people bring other chars like Droids for example, is because they have a chance to sometimes win. If you delete Poe turn 7, it's all turn 7 wars.

This discussion has been closed.