Poe Dameron balancing

Replies

  • Qeltar
    4326 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Barrok wrote: »
    Resistance Bravado

    Taunt for 2 turns with a 65% chance to Expose each enemy for 2 turns. For each Resistance member on Poe's team, reduce the enemies turn meter by 5%.
    That would actually be a neat idea. It removes the "Poe is a no-brainer on any DPS team" nonsense, and provides much-needed synergy to the resistance side (which has far fewer synergies than the first order guys do).
    It doesn't remove the problem of too much damage, but it reduces it by eliminating/reducing the Poe/Poggle/DPS monstrosities everywhere.
    Quit 7/14/16. Best of luck to all of you.
  • Are you going to do anything about this?
    TahLnzM.png

    In my opinion the problem isn't Poe, it's the ability to see who does or doesn't have Poe. From this (small and biased) poll you can see that it is a 50/50 split between being liked or disliked. Would you really implement a new feature when half of the playerbase is against it.

    What I see here is a pretty even split.

    Exactly. It is evenly split. That means 1/2 of all of the players who voted dislike the change. Will CG implement a new feature that half of the players dislike?

    What makes your half better than the other half? Not to be rude or a **** here but I bet if you took the money spent on the opposing sides that the money spent on the side saying leave Poe alone is quite a lot higher. This is a business after all. Be careful with the nerf stick as those players who are spending significantly may grow weary of it and move on. At that point it won't matter the game dies.

    Neither side is better than the other. I'm saying that new features shouldn't be added unless say 75% of all players like it.
    My name is cosmicturtle333, aka CT-333, aka Threes.
  • Poe does not need a nerf if:
    Other tanks get a passive to absorb damage from start of battle

    Damage is toned down

    Defense is increased



    In a turn based game, every levelled toon should get a turn
  • J7000
    2059 posts Member
    Triqui wrote: »
    reizse wrote: »
    TBH with you guys...if you make poe unusable (whether by removing his TM reduction or lowering his speed), you will quickly see the real problem behind him...it's been said a thousand times. speed + dmg in disproportionate quantities in comparison to health and defense. poe is just the icing. i've said it before, i don't care if poe gets nerfed or not. he's not part of my arena line up (lvl 27, gear 2 used in the INT challenge only). i may be a masochist when i say this..but i kind of enjoy fighting poe teams even if the chance to lose is really high.

    whatever.
    poe was usable, and used, before he was turn 7, with the lvl 60 cap. He was just less dominant because there was people who acted consistently before him.

    Poe at 142 speed will be useful, and used. Maybe not omnipresent as he is now, but Han is not omnipresent either, and he is not useless.

    Poe at 143 speed, but without turn meter steal, will be useful as a early taunter that protect squishier targets. He just will not be able to warp time and space and make his whole team act before the enemy blinks.

    I'm farmng Poe right now. I have no problems to join the meta and play like everybody else. He is easy to farm, that's not an issue. But his ability is problematic. FOO will be problematic in the future. Time manipulation so early in the game is not a good design. It leads to all kind of broken possibilities and it opens the door to turn 1 winning combos. And turn 1 winning combos are a bad thing.

    Turn 1 winning combos are ensures by having ALL turn 7 chars. The problem is that assining Poe to turn 8 just invalidates him as a tank to protect. The only reason turn 8 chars are usefull today is because Poe has 1 chance in 5 (for a full turn 7 team which dominated/will dominate arena) or 20% to make turn 8 glass tanks useful.

    If Poe goes to turn 8, see if you can agree, then the meta will shift to have 5 turn 7 chars like Dooku, Sid, Daka, Rey, GS, QGJ...well, that's exactly what you see at high Arena ranks.

    The ONLY reason some people bring other chars like Droids for example, is because they have a chance to sometimes win. If you delete Poe turn 7, it's all turn 7 wars.

    Which lies the irony. Poe actually allows more diversity...
  • Qeltar wrote: »
    What I see here is a pretty even split.

    What you see is 2 wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.

    Actually what I see is a wolf wanting to eat a sheep and a Shepard trying to protect him.
  • I'm by no means a whale I've spent $200 on this game, first time that I have spent any significant amount on IAP.

    If the money I have spent here devalues due to bending to the will of people who complain the loudest I won't be spending much more time or money on this game.

    It's already a very expensive game and if my investment devalued further that's not right.

    Again we haven't even had a chance to test his first power reduction. This shows weakness and lack of direction.
  • I know people who have invested tons of resources into alternative teams who are now on the verge of quitting.

    This X 1000

    People have been punished for going out on a limb.

    And I know people who have invested a ton of resources that are sick of watching their investments nerfed thus wasting them and are ready to quit.
  • J7000 wrote: »
    I don't even care what you guys nerf anymore.. Team Nerf is just gonna push and push until they get what they want. The fact that the devs are nerfing Poe AND have announced they will nerf again still isn't good enough for these clowns. Do what you wish. Buffing is so much more interesting and creative imo. Keep caving to forum rage and well, good luck. Long live Bariss.

    Yes
  • I know people who have invested tons of resources into alternative teams who are now on the verge of quitting.

    This X 1000

    People have been punished for going out on a limb.

    And I know people who have invested a ton of resources that are sick of watching their investments nerfed thus wasting them and are ready to quit.

    No one wants Poe to be unusable, we just don't want one move to decide the entire match.
    My name is cosmicturtle333, aka CT-333, aka Threes.
  • It's literally just the turn meter reduction
  • obiwan1011
    396 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Barrok wrote: »
    Here is how I would change Poe. I think it would make even @Qeltar happy, though that is friggin tough to do, so maybe not.

    Resistance Bravado

    Taunt for 2 turns with a 65% chance to Expose each enemy for 2 turns. For each Resistance member on Poe's team, reduce the enemies turn meter by 5%.

    (4 turn cooldown)

    So, max turn meter reduction is 25% still, BUT that requires all 5 resistance members. Finn is garbage (not as garbage as the millennium falcon..) so you can remove 5% from that list. Resistance trooper is hard to get, so remove another 5%. Rey is hard to get but everyone is going for her, and resistance pilot is easy to get.

    If for some reason all 5 are on the same team, you still see 25% reduction, BUT Poe and Rey are already turn 7 hero's so that doesn't make them go faster, Finn is 107 i think, and pilot 115, trooper 121. So, even at 25% I don't think many teams are exactly worried about fighting this team. No doubt it is good, but you could make a case that running just Rey and Poe, with FOTP, sid and GS might be better.

    Anyway, my two cents. Destroy me forums, I am sure I am wrong!! :)

    PS: I would bring his tenacity back up to what it was, and I would keep the expose chance what it was. These things are vital to the resistance team.

    I like this idea. :)

    ...and yes, his tenacity and expose should be restored as they aren't the problem.

    But at the end of the day, Poe is not the true problem. Countless times have people mentioned that it is the high speed AND high damage heroes such as GS, Rey, QGJ and IG-86 that ruin the balance and hurt the overall diversity. I would rather see CG addressing them first.
  • bleeaauuh wrote: »
    It's literally just the turn meter reduction

    Exactly. Forget the tenacity,speed,expose or anything else. Remove his turn meter reduction and he will still be an incredibly powerful hero who will still be very useful in Arena.
    My name is cosmicturtle333, aka CT-333, aka Threes.
  • I know people who have invested tons of resources into alternative teams who are now on the verge of quitting.

    This X 1000

    People have been punished for going out on a limb.

    And I know people who have invested a ton of resources that are sick of watching their investments nerfed thus wasting them and are ready to quit.

    No one wants Poe to be unusable, we just don't want one move to decide the entire match.

    We too. But with Turn 7 high end teams, Poe is a hidersnce. QGJ or GS one shotnwith an assist before him, or QGJ dispell the taunt AND entirely buff his team for a destruction fest. I know because I face this all the time.

    What tou are trying to donis solve world hunger by making stomachs smaller, or killing appetite. The reson Poe is needed is because no turn 8 char (much less turn 9+) has any use in Arena. Chevy is very tanky, can heal, has a quick coolndown. But when his turn arrives everyone is dead. This is the inverse effect...is says people with real hunger don't benefit from apetite killers. They need the food now. If you remive Poe, turn 7 dominance becomes even more evident.

    Nobody dares run a Droid team without Poe. They Won't get a turn.

  • AdamW
    692 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    I hate all of the nerf posts. I understand Poe is a powerful character that blends synergy in a party and being practially the ONLY tank to be able to taunt before someone in your party dies.

    Im currently farming him because I desire his team synergy, I RARELY have difficulty fighting teams with him currently. I dont know what to say about those who do, hes doing what all tanks should be doing.

    Can we please just keep some good characters without nerfing them?
  • Why not give a couple characters the ability to reduce damage 60% for two turns. Make it a high speed character. Problem solved we all buy more **** to get this new toon and I'm not super **** my time and money were wasted.


    Quote me to see uncensored comments. There's another bug needs fixed.
  • Nerf is a simple way to increase paying in-apps. If Poe is nurfed, people search another alternative and make it to 7*, then nerfed and pay again and again...
  • Qeltar
    4326 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    AdamW wrote: »
    Im currently farming him because I desire his team synergy...
    Poe's "synergy" right now is this: "4 warm bodies" (or not even warm, if using droids.) I'm exaggerating, but only slightly.
    AdamW wrote: »
    Can we please just keep some good characters without nerfing them?
    Good characters? Sure. Characters that guarantee that you win before your opponent even gets to move? Hell no.
    Sometimes developers screw up. Poe is a screw up. He needs to be fixed properly, and his tenacity is not the screwup.
    Quit 7/14/16. Best of luck to all of you.
  • Qeltar wrote: »
    AdamW wrote: »
    Im currently farming him because I desire his team synergy...
    Poe's "synergy" right now is this: "4 warm bodies" (or not even warm, if using droids.) I'm exaggerating, but only slightly.
    AdamW wrote: »
    Can we please just keep some good characters without nerfing them?
    Good characters? Sure. Characters that guarantee that you win before your opponent even gets to move? Hell no.
    Sometimes developers screw up. Poe is a screw up. He needs to be fixed properly, and his tenacity is not the screwup.

    This never happens to me if I'm fighting even remotely equal power teams.

  • I know people who have invested tons of resources into alternative teams who are now on the verge of quitting.

    This X 1000

    People have been punished for going out on a limb.

    And I know people who have invested a ton of resources that are sick of watching their investments nerfed thus wasting them and are ready to quit.

    No one wants Poe to be unusable, we just don't want one move to decide the entire match.

    @cosmicturtle333
    That logic states Rey and FOTP should be too. If Poes taunt costs you the match then you need to give it up or learn some strategy.

    Poe on the right team makes it great. Droids, High DPS. Poe on a poor team only delays defeat.

    Here CT put Poe with Opress, Barriss, Ventress, and oh I don't know Luke for some DPS . You going to lose to that squad? I surely hope not.

    So O"one move" does not decide the match. If it did his taunt would allow anyteam he was on to win. I'm sorry but that team above I would tear through like tin foil without Poe or any "high DPS" toon like FOTP, Leia, Rey, Geo.

    So before you try to claim things that are untrue know what you claim. If your "one move decides the match" were true than that taunt would do it on any team.

    How about this you run that Poe team I mentioned. I'll make a team of my toons, won't even all be 70, without Poe or FOTP, or Rey, or Geo and if I win you stop this Poes taunt wins every match or whatever new reason you have for Poe to be nerfed garbage. If you win I'll join your nerf Poe cause. How about that? Seems fair. That build is off the wall, not one you see, surely no cookie cutter, and if "one move decides the match" You should easily beat me without my handicapping myself, yet I will to prove my point.
  • I know people who have invested tons of resources into alternative teams who are now on the verge of quitting.

    This X 1000

    People have been punished for going out on a limb.

    And I know people who have invested a ton of resources that are sick of watching their investments nerfed thus wasting them and are ready to quit.

    No one wants Poe to be unusable, we just don't want one move to decide the entire match.

    We too. But with Turn 7 high end teams, Poe is a hidersnce. QGJ or GS one shotnwith an assist before him, or QGJ dispell the taunt AND entirely buff his team for a destruction fest. I know because I face this all the time.

    What tou are trying to donis solve world hunger by making stomachs smaller, or killing appetite. The reson Poe is needed is because no turn 8 char (much less turn 9+) has any use in Arena. Chevy is very tanky, can heal, has a quick coolndown. But when his turn arrives everyone is dead. This is the inverse effect...is says people with real hunger don't benefit from apetite killers. They need the food now. If you remive Poe, turn 7 dominance becomes even more evident.

    Nobody dares run a Droid team without Poe. They Won't get a turn.

    Agree
  • bleeaauuh wrote: »
    It's literally just the turn meter reduction

    Exactly. Forget the tenacity,speed,expose or anything else. Remove his turn meter reduction and he will still be an incredibly powerful hero who will still be very useful in Arena.

    I could live with this, if they put the other things back to normal.

    Forces you to build synergy and use another for the TM. I already have a build ready as I was expecting that to be the nerf,lol.

  • Darth Maul is probably the closest to how a high damage toon _should_ be in this case. Good single target, Class specialty damage (jedi) with substantial boost, massive AoE. Fun as it gets. But... Slow. People have a chance to react to seeing him.

    The current high damage meta is broken when ultra damage toons can even fire near the beginning of the first round (which is probably where the turn reduction came from... to slow those toons down). Problem is, those toons work on both teams.

    Again, everything points to high damage/speed toons being a much bigger cause of the problems than Poe.

    Damage is just too high in relation to health in Arena. If you want that much damage on the current health pool, you need to slow it down (like Darth Maul... A character I can only wish I could use in Arena but can't in the current meta).

    The rest of the game is balanced around the current power levels on characters; however, so any alterations need to be in Arena only. It's the age old PvE vs PvP balancing thing. You can not simply nerf Poe. It not only breaks in him in Arena but throughout the entire game. And, that is some serious ****.
  • Triqui
    2790 posts Member
    Triqui wrote: »
    reizse wrote: »
    TBH with you guys...if you make poe unusable (whether by removing his TM reduction or lowering his speed), you will quickly see the real problem behind him...it's been said a thousand times. speed + dmg in disproportionate quantities in comparison to health and defense. poe is just the icing. i've said it before, i don't care if poe gets nerfed or not. he's not part of my arena line up (lvl 27, gear 2 used in the INT challenge only). i may be a masochist when i say this..but i kind of enjoy fighting poe teams even if the chance to lose is really high.

    whatever.
    poe was usable, and used, before he was turn 7, with the lvl 60 cap. He was just less dominant because there was people who acted consistently before him.

    Poe at 142 speed will be useful, and used. Maybe not omnipresent as he is now, but Han is not omnipresent either, and he is not useless.

    Poe at 143 speed, but without turn meter steal, will be useful as a early taunter that protect squishier targets. He just will not be able to warp time and space and make his whole team act before the enemy blinks.

    I'm farmng Poe right now. I have no problems to join the meta and play like everybody else. He is easy to farm, that's not an issue. But his ability is problematic. FOO will be problematic in the future. Time manipulation so early in the game is not a good design. It leads to all kind of broken possibilities and it opens the door to turn 1 winning combos. And turn 1 winning combos are a bad thing.

    Turn 1 winning combos are ensures by having ALL turn 7 chars.
    No. Because if you have turn 7 chars, and I have turn 7 chars, barring very bad outcomes of RNG, we are going to act intermittently. You act, I act, you act, I act. Your Geo goes first, then my Gunray, then your Rey, then my Dooku, and so on.
    If you have Poe, and he acts first, you push a button, then you go to play alone for 30 seconds, doing *at least* five actions before I blink. Could be more if some of those can get extra turn meter themselves.
    The ONLY reason some people bring other chars like Droids for example, is because they have a chance to sometimes win. If you delete Poe turn 7, it's all turn 7 wars.
    Then keep him turn 7. But remove the turn manipulation. He can go turn 7, taunt, and protect other chars with his taunt. But at least give the other side the opportunity to act, push some buttons, react, and maybe PLAY. Dunno, like using a dispel to counter that taunt, using offense down to reduce incoming damage, or AOE to bypass the taunt, or whatever.

    Currently it doesn't happen that way. Poe acts, push a button, summon a time bubble, wreaks the continuum of space-time, and his whole team act while the enemy is paralized in stasis.
  • AdamW
    692 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Qeltar wrote: »
    AdamW wrote: »
    Im currently farming him because I desire his team synergy...
    Poe's "synergy" right now is this: "4 warm bodies" (or not even warm, if using droids.) I'm exaggerating, but only slightly.
    AdamW wrote: »
    Can we please just keep some good characters without nerfing them?
    Good characters? Sure. Characters that guarantee that you win before your opponent even gets to move? Hell no.
    Sometimes developers screw up. Poe is a screw up. He needs to be fixed properly, and his tenacity is not the screwup.

    My team isnt maxed and I beat multiple poe teams daily even combined with GS, FOTP, leia ect (yes were at lvl70 23-27k+ power) I dont understand why your having such a hard time with him man and its no offense to you, but you whine about him constantly like you dont know how to play. (sorry its how you act)

    He is by FAR not a instant win character, if he were how could I beat him daily like I do?
    Once people find a good character combination, people always come and complain about it out of frustration thats human nature.

    It also takes a long time to farm these characters, and to the people who just finished maxing him because he blends in their party, it would be garbage to have him nerfed to the point of barely being useful.

    If they absolutely must nerf him because you people cant deal with him, then give him some sort of buff to go with it. Take away his -25% turn meter (which seems to be everyones problem). KEEP HIS SPEED, and buff his heal and tenacity %.
  • Anubis
    200 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    I think that the tenacity decrease was actually the right way to handle the complaints. Poe isn't destroying the game, it's the four glass cannons that are hiding behind him that are the problem. Until they are ready to overhaul speed and damage we shouldn't lash out at the byproducts of the game's flaws while missing the forest for the trees. I see a lot of disappointment that Poe wasn't 'fixed,' but personally I am more disappointed that we still don't have a solution to the much, much broader problem.

    Edit: typo
  • Triqui
    2790 posts Member

    Nobody dares run a Droid team without Poe. They Won't get a turn.
    I have done. Will give up and get Poe, already unlocked. Would still get Poe if they remove the turnmeter.

  • Calus_78
    504 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    What is wrong with Poe taunting in turn 2? You would rather have a tank protect 2 teammates rather than 4? A tank that taunts after everyone is dead is not really doing his job now is he? I think all tanks should be able to grab agro when the match starts.

    Speed is not the problem with poe, so stop whinning about it.
    Post edited by Calus_78 on
  • Anubis wrote: »
    I think that the tenacity decrease was actually the right way to handle the problem. Poe isn't destroying the game, it's the four glass cannons that are hiding behind him that are the problem. Until they are ready to overhaul speed and damage we shouldn't lash out at the byproducts of the game's flaws while missing the forest for the trees. I see a lot of disappointment that Poe wasn't 'fixed,' but personally I am more disappointed that we still don't have a solution to the much, much broader problem.

    Edit: typo

    Bingo.
  • So what's going to happen is once they release the arena update people with poe are going to be targeting people without poe and you'll be kicked way the heck back without him. So it's get poe or die?
  • Starwars96 wrote: »
    So what's going to happen is once they release the arena update people with poe are going to be targeting people without poe and you'll be kicked way the heck back without him. So it's get poe or die?

    Yep. Pretty much.
    My name is cosmicturtle333, aka CT-333, aka Threes.
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