Poe Dameron balancing

Replies

  • If we can see that there is a group of complainers constantly overrunning every thread and starting tons of their own, whining about every single change, however small, and that those people are always the same cast of characters, certainly the CG team can too.

    I wish they'd make a dedicated place for them all to post. They can call it Qeltars Cosmic ****.

    Before this update not once had I ever said anyone was OP. I don't care what you think of me, but get your facts right mate.
    My name is cosmicturtle333, aka CT-333, aka Threes.
  • If we can see that there is a group of complainers constantly overrunning every thread and starting tons of their own, whining about every single change, however small, and that those people are always the same cast of characters, certainly the CG team can too.

    I wish they'd make a dedicated place for them all to post. They can call it Qeltars Cosmic ****.

    Haha, nice one.

    Seriously tho, this is where cg/ea are starting to make a mistake. They made a decision and nerfed poe. That should have been the end of it. However, the day after the patch notes..... the update not even live yet, they announce they may nerf him even more. I'm starting to question, am I not allowed to play and enjoy this game and farming characters in peace without the big nerf elephant presence in the room?.
  • Please CG do not make adjustments to the game solely to please forum dwellers. For the most part they make judgements based upon deeply held beliefs that will not succumb to rational analysis or logic.

    How does a poll in which half of respondents dislike a proposed change mean devs should consider not implementing that change? The sample size of 140 players is infinitesimal and even so the result is still predictably split considering nobody has tried the new feature out. In most games competition improves when players are provided with additional information regarding opponent strategies, doing so creates decision trees(options)which contribute to strategy and depth in gameplay which in turn emphasizes skill.

    Poe as a character has been terribly analyzed by the player base, they mistakenly believe that TM reduction without Expose is pretty much the same thing. It really makes a huge difference because community outrage is mostly focused on Poe abuse alongside a team of glass cannons, which can take out multiple characters before the opponent has a turn.

    Reducing Expose chance restores player interaction as teams won't be taken down in one volley, and also allows Poe's taunt to be used strategically instead of simply gunning it although that option is still available but may not always be the best play. Poe also allows slower characters a chance at fit into competitive teams, thereby encouraging diversity rather than stifling it.

    I'm not saying ignore players on the forum but trust your devs' testing,that is presumably conducted with a better understanding of the underlying game mechanics, and don't make moves simply to appease the vocal forum community because gameplay will suffer as a result.
  • twaller
    123 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Post removed due to ToS violation.
    Post edited by nidkotorious on
  • Amish_Ace
    516 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Are you going to do anything about this?
    TahLnzM.png

    In my opinion the problem isn't Poe, it's the ability to see who does or doesn't have Poe. From this (small and biased) poll you can see that it is a 50/50 split between being liked or disliked. Would you really implement a new feature when half of the playerbase is against it.

    I agree 100% with this. As a player that doesn't run Poe I am forced to now focus on Poe becuase I will be a major target after the update simply because I don't have Poe in my squad. Remove the turn meter reduction and the balance will be there.....Oh, and I'm continually in the top 5 without Poe...probably becuase of this anonymity.
    Darth Saltious - Hoth Ski Patrol
  • I think they need to tone down certain toons damage out put. Being able to taunt and take down 2-3 toons is a huge advantage round one.
  • From a Poe owner's viewpoint, I wouldn't be opposed to simply making the turn meter reduction resistible. This way the odds are the other team is going to get some moves in even after the taunt/turn meter mojo, since not everyone will be affected. Problem Solved.

  • How do I mute people like Qeltar? This is getting ridiculous. We get it. The Devs have read it. Stop it.

    Can the mods please merge all Poe posts to clean up the forums?
  • Mrmeow had a decent idea of making Poe's turn reduction faction only.
  • What I want as a player is to be able to play a variety of teams and face a variety of teams whether it's in arena or galactic war and have fun while doing so! Poe is polarising the meta. I see him more and more as people start to level him up. Playing against poe is no fun. He allows teams to kill me before I get a serious chance to do anything. My last gw was nearly uncompletable as I faced waves of poe teams. I have a strong roster and managed it but a lot of players don't. This guy is making gw a nightmare as well. Nerf or no nerf something needs to change. Atm poe teams are WAY ahead of anything else out there.
  • I don't get it.
    If FOTP, GS, Rey hit like Taila, will people still want to nerf Poe???

    The problem is some of the DPS toons can one shot a full level/star/gear opponent, in a turn based game that's ****. So the problem is not Poe but the high damage, Poe only provides a cover.

    All Poe has is a fast taunt, just like all glass canon got is high damage. If you nerf Poe by reducing his speed, shouldn't you nerf glass canon by reducing damage? nerf dooku by reducing his extra attack??

    Bunch of whiners.
  • Simda
    151 posts Member
    High speed tank = Lebron James who is one of the best for a reason.

    Let's relax and see how the changes will pan out.
  • *Disclaimer* I don't care about Poe or his nerf.

    What people who are anti Poe are saying, is that it's his TURN METER REDUCTION that is causing all the problems. It's not resistable and allows the Poe team to go all 5 heroes before the non Poe team.

    As they have said, keep his speed and 2 turn taunt. A tank should go fast and soak damage. Keep his expose chance. It's what makes him unique. But remove his turn meter manipulation. That's the OP part. Mixed with the high damage that some heroes can output, heroes can be taken out before even moving. 1 hero has 1 ability that decides the outcome of the battle in turn 1. That's too much.

    I don't see what's so hard to understand.
  • Mr_Eel
    124 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    From a Poe owner's viewpoint, I wouldn't be opposed to simply making the turn meter reduction resistible. This way the odds are the other team is going to get some moves in even after the taunt/turn meter mojo, since not everyone will be affected. Problem Solved.

    This. I use Poe with Kylo, Sid, Poggle, and Phasma lead. Against equal power dps overkill teams without Poe, I can lose, but only if Poggle and Poe go last. It would be more 50/50 if the turn meter reduction was resistable. Code it like a debuff that pops up and instantly disappears.
  • Сome on already, leave Poe alone. he's not the real problem here. stop nerfing him too much, besides plateresque "time-warp-thingie", his abilities are pretty decent and useful and doesn't needed to be nerfed like you did with your current changes. Unlike his "classmates", he is the real personification of the tank - he protects, he supports and he is useful.

    But like it was already said - the main problem is the characters that are hiding behind his back waiting to get a killing blow - nerf this turn-stealing option and give him some buffs in defense/health and self-healing instead. but somehow none of this does not even appears at all... allow them tanks to be tanks - be the defense wall and soak up the damage before the entire team will be destroyed with high-speed DPS toons which prevail in current meta.

    We need EVIDENT work of defense in the game - not only ubiquitous using of attack and speed.
    cheers from Ukraine! and may the force b with u!
  • Jabba
    1033 posts Member
    Seriously past 3 days I have had my Poe go second mostly and have still won match actually hit number 1 for first time ever I run max droids sure geo maxed and a5 star Poe seriously believe you just need to work your toons just because you lose no reason to nerf anyone believe me I have been on losing side a lot I'm mostly Ftp spent a lil sure but games worth it to me and only 200 bucks how about build to get into competition instead of begging for a nerf to get there problem with society today everyone wants something for nothing earn your keep if you think high dps is boring quit play something else my team consist of all Ftp characters and my bracket is loaded if I can work to get there why can't everyone else this games a time killer all we have is time and sure building a comp to compete may take a month but I did it many others did it just because you havent why punish the other achievers for your mistakes I read all swgoh ewok rampage and Reddit the data mining is there for you do your homework next time and mAybe you won't be begging for nerf next time just my 2cents feel free try give me change back but your whining just looks pathetic if I'm being honest seriously.
  • I like where you are going with the Poe Dameron changes.


    1. Tenacity on a taunting character is frustrating to play against. You have a severely less chance of removing the taunt. Combined with a high speed character, and the taunt duration being 2 entire rounds (usually this decides the match already) it's not healthy. Reducing the tenacity was a good step so that he can be crown controlled.

    2. Exposed application being reduced to 50% chance is great. That means only 2-3 characters will usually get debuffed. This makes it so you are rewarded if you hit those "random" characters.

    3. Turn meter manipulation on a fast character is dangerous. You guarantee for the most part, that your whole team goes first. Phasma's slow is okay because it's a debuff that slow them down overall, but doesn't typically effect the match until the 2nd round.


    My suggested change, where I think Poe will be in a very healthy spot:

    1. Two turn taunt is very unnecessary. It's overkill on Poe and people are forced to change 1/5th of their squad JUST to remove a taunt debuff. I think every team should be versatile but not forced to deal with a specific debuff that changes the match. Reduce the taunt duration to one. People won't be too upset

    **OR**

    2. Change how Stun. As it stands, while stunned, you can't counter attack. Yet you can still tank for your allies with Taunt? while stunned, Taunt should stay active but not allow the character to be a factor in the match. They shouldn't be able to counter attack, assist attack, defend, etc.
  • Currently lvl 70 and honestly don't believe that there is a problem with Poe. Hope you leave him as is!
  • Jabba wrote: »
    Seriously past 3 days I have had my Poe go second mostly and have still won match actually hit number 1 for first time ever I run max droids sure geo maxed and a5 star Poe seriously believe you just need to work your toons just because you lose no reason to nerf anyone believe me I have been on losing side a lot I'm mostly Ftp spent a lil sure but games worth it to me and only 200 bucks how about build to get into competition instead of begging for a nerf to get there problem with society today everyone wants something for nothing earn your keep if you think high dps is boring quit play something else my team consist of all Ftp characters and my bracket is loaded if I can work to get there why can't everyone else this games a time killer all we have is time and sure building a comp to compete may take a month but I did it many others did it just because you havent why punish the other achievers for your mistakes I read all swgoh ewok rampage and Reddit the data mining is there for you do your homework next time and mAybe you won't be begging for nerf next time just my 2cents feel free try give me change back but your whining just looks pathetic if I'm being honest seriously.

    img_0603.jpg?w=760
    My name is cosmicturtle333, aka CT-333, aka Threes.
  • Jabba
    1033 posts Member
    Haha never claimed to be a English major but had to chime in seriously I beat Poe teams sure I have Poe as well but that is current meta and meta will change and while beating Poe teams I'm taunting second a lot and my team for from op I get moved in rank daily relax people do your homework and more characters will come maybe boot Poe altogether at some point then you be begging for it nerfed 8 pages of fixes and updates seems developers been working give them credit. P.s you notice the period lol
  • Ohw Qeltar you need to get banned from this forum for a day or 2. If you are not going to take a break yourself, you should be forced.
    I get your points and I agree with you on some but this is taking the form of some obsessive keyboard warrioring :D

    My 2 cents:
    I don't care anymore. This forum will destroy the devs their will to keep communicating soon since the vocal minority here is as toxic as it gets.
    Come at me bro with me being paid by CG or w/e you think I am basing my opinion on.
    I'm reading a topic posted by a dev that he is taking all the concerns into account, then I read that they failed blabla, they are too late blabla, they could have dont this or that or blabla WTH
    If you think I am getting paid by devs, I can say the negativity are people getting paid by anti Star Wars "fans" just like what is happening on IMDB. I also like to complain from time to time but don't waste half your life being a warrior on a gameforum (comes from the guy with almost 1k posts sigh, I'm a hypocrit :))
    439-259-888 I have a bad habit of editing my typo's after posting
  • PS: really feels like everything that seems positive in my eyes gets burned to the ground by various people that seem to NEVER be satisfied.
    439-259-888 I have a bad habit of editing my typo's after posting
  • Can someone explain why none of these updates are posted in the news letter, or Mabey a link in the news letter 95% of the people playing this game arnt dork in it up In the forums.
  • Triqui
    2790 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Jabba wrote: »
    Haha never claimed to be a English major but had to chime in seriously I beat Poe teams sure I have Poe as well but that is current meta and meta will change and while beating Poe teams I'm taunting second a lot and my team for from op I get moved in rank daily relax people do your homework and more characters will come maybe boot Poe altogether at some point then you be begging for it nerfed 8 pages of fixes and updates seems developers been working give them credit. P.s you notice the period lol
    It's a tautology that Poe teams can defeat Poe teams. Otherwise they will always draw. Not sure what does add to the conversation.

    In fact, non poe teams can beat poewered teams as well. The AI is pretty bad targeting, to begin with.

    The thing that matters here, in my opinion, is not if Barris was over nerfed, how much damage the game does relative to HP, or the amount of effort people has used to farm Poe. Those are the trees, not the forest. We are talking about a skill, and that skill is what matters.

    The question that matters here is: Do you think it's healthy for a turn based game the existente of an ability that allows you go first, click a button, and act 5 or more times before the oponent? If you think it is, then you don't want Poe nerfed, and maybe see that skill in other future characters (like FOO). If you think it is not, then you want him nerfed, other future options (like First Order Officer will be once we have lvl 80) nerfed as well, and the devs focus and be more csreful with this kind of abilities in the future.

    That's it.


    I'm done with this issue. The devs will look into real data. They'll see how dominant is or is not Poe, and if he warrants a nerf or not. They said it themselves about Barris: data showed it was true, vence the nerf. Data did not show it for Dooku or other chars often called for nerfs, and they are unnerfed. Will be the same with Poe, if data back up it, he'll be nerfed, if not he won't.

    Myself, I roll with the punches. I'm farming Poe, and will put him in my arena. I think not having him in current state is s mistske. He is free to get. Everybody can get him, everybody should, and eventually, most will. Those who decide not to, will probably be punished for it once the new arena comes and allow people to cherrypick underPoewered teams.
  • Lokai
    379 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Qeltar wrote: »
    [This is not like the Barriss nerf but lighter. This would be like Barriss being considered too good of a healer, so you reduce the proc rate of Swift Recovery.

    That would have been proper as Barris - by all stats, evidence and consensus is a char that does not belong in Arena PVP at any high rank.

    Contrary to this, Sid leads 22 of my Arena top 50, with (my own numbers until we can see compositions) another 15 people there using him with a Phasma lead. That's 37 out of 50. Barris is in 0 of these teams.

    What gives you the entitlement to openly question Cg in bold letter every single chance you have and loudly and incesantly about this?

    It affects me, and affects everyone that has Poe even if they don't use it, or say they can counter It. And also thise that already stated they don't have it and have no problem with Poe.

    Again,

    1) Sid is in maybe 70% of teams in TOP 50 Arena.
    2) They just nerfed a character they sold as part of a $100 bundle, and where those that missed it may have used $100 or much more to acquire Poe faster
    3) We have evidence thus that being frequently used is not a reason for nerf (Sid).
    4) We know CG wants to avoid having a char like Barris, from being usable (and she was in no way OP) to being not used by anyone.
    5) they want to take time to monitor things

    I applaud the developers for not giving in and taking their time. And I would love them to do what they think is RIGHT not what they think the most vocal Forum-Warriors want.

    I rhink the Barris nerf was partnof a learning process. I don't think they wanted a char that nobody that competes in Arena will never use. They cannot know in advance what will happen. And want to be FAIR and GOOD LiSTENERs more than they want to decide which side of their player base to unjustly affect. What is right should take precedence.

    why do people keep stating stupid **** as facts? Guess what on my server I, Veqlargh, score rather well in arena most days if i'm able to be on to do the sniper war thing around 6pm. Twice in the last 5 days I took 1st place and am typically top 5. And guess who I use as my team lead in EVERY SINGLE arena match? Barriss.....yeah that's right I intentionally screw with the system because I hate having cookie cutter **** teams. Granted I am forced to run poe because to not is almost certainly guaranteed loss due to the entire enemy team generally going before you get a chance to do anything.

    Do I think barriss's nerf was overdone? yes I do. Now she is not a very effective healer and on top of that her damage sucks donkey b a l l s. I'm not real sure why they figure its okay for a FARMABLE character, i'm looking at you luminara, is both HIGH DAMAGE and THE BEST HEALER.......so you take a paid for character that is hard to star up and you completely trash her but allow a farmable character to dominate in damage and healing? can we seriously get barriss to a better state already? Currently I use her just to be an a z z and show that even with the handicap you can win in arena. I do find her helpful to sometimes survive burst teams due to the extra health but that is complete rng on the enemy team getting crummy damage/crit rolls. and her heal through heal immunity is usually wasted as due to the high damage healing is largly useless.

    As to poe yes he is, in current game state, broken as all get out. He currently can fairly often do 20% damage to all enemies with his expose which simply requires them to take damage to realize that 20% damage, he shields the glass cannons before the opponent can focus them down AND he allows your team to go before the opponents team even gets to get off of the couch. Assumning your poe goes first that is. So most arena matches literally are deteremined by whose poe goes first. Granted due to really bad damage/crit rolls it is POSSIBLE to survive losing the first poe activation but generally it is a deal breaker.

    and why do people think seeing an enemy's team is going to help? if its got poe in it your no better off. guess what....poe is a GUARANTEED thing. You can form a team that has a CHANCE to possibly stun or skill lock him but its only a chance, poe is GUARANTEED to do his thing there is no chance excepting your % chance to prevent him doing his thing first round. QGJ is NOT a counter to poe. Once poe has gone it's over he has gained his team the advantage, sure QGJ may remove the taunt but that's not the defining effect of poe just another lovely frosting to savor. he gets your team to activate before the enemy pure and simple everything else is just frosting.

    now if damage wasn't so damned high with certain characters AND/OR health pools were higher AND/OR defense stats actually meant a **** then PERHAPS poe as he currently is would be workable but in current state him going first for your team generally guarantees a first turn determination of winner. It's kind of hard to come back and fight a full 5 man team when before you've gone you are down to 2 or 3 characters.

    I'm not saying poe needs a nerf but i'm not sure the devs are going to figure this out in any kinds of time period to make anyone happy. They are allowing damage to get too high and health/defense to be completely meaningless which just HIGHLIGHTS poes VERY STRONG Abilities.

    here's hoping to a better balance, but i'm not going to hold my breath......
  • Triqui
    2790 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Lokai wrote: »
    why do people keep stating **** **** as facts? Guess what on my server I, Veqlargh, score rather well in arena most days if i'm able to be on to do the sniper war thing around 6pm. Twice in the last 5 days I took 1st place and am typically top 5. And guess who I use as my team lead in EVERY SINGLE arena match? Barriss.....

    You are not alone in the top with Barris.

    294gehe.png



    Post edited by Triqui on
  • If we can see that there is a group of complainers constantly overrunning every thread and starting tons of their own, whining about every single change, however small, and that those people are always the same cast of characters, certainly the CG team can too.

    I wish they'd make a dedicated place for them all to post. They can call it Qeltars Cosmic ****.

    How nice of you to call out someone and make personal attacks. Very mature.
  • Elyndria
    482 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    I used to be a huge proponent of Poe as having a healthy spot in the metagame... This was before at least 5 people on my server noticed how well my team was preforming and copied it.

    I was on the Poe + Poggle + Aoe train before anyone else on my server. The aoe vs aoe matchup is a total 50/50 coinflip, while the aoe vs single target team for me is near 100%. This is why I thought the turn meter was balanced. I could easily beat the whale teams.

    I did farm 7* poe over many weeks from cantina. I'd be totally okay with the turn meter reduction being completely removed now. Poe brings many positives but the positives don't outweigh the negatives at all.

    Just nerf my poe up fam. :*



  • Qeltar wrote: »
    And to make a point others have made: it's not just the completely "what were they thinking" changes to Poe that people are unhappy about. It's that

    You realize you are spamming the forums repeating the same argumentation over and over?
    Please, stop. I beg you .You and all your anti-Poe friends. It's enough. You made your point 2000 posts back.

    There is an official nerf and answer now, would you mind giving the rest of the community (who might share or not your point of view but yet keep silence), a well-deserved break from your Poe drama?

    Seriously, official answer is here. Stop posting the same QQ over an over.

    @EA_Jesse , I'm sorry, but this is starting to get out of hands. I know it's drastic but, is there any way that all these Poe posts are moved or deleted from the main Forums? Or maybe moved into a new section called "DramaPoes" or something? At least until the new update comes, and people start to realize what the new possibilities are with the new changes and toons?

    These few people posting over and over and over are starting to completely destroy the whole forum with their QQ spam.
    GIVE US A BREAK, PLEASE.
This discussion has been closed.