Poe Dameron balancing

Replies

  • and one more point, if you're going to show the other teams players, which i like - the problem i outlined above will likely cause the Top 50 or so to just become fixed in place. why attack a Poe, Ray, IG, GS team when you know you'll lose at least 1-2 people before you even get a chance to make a single move?
  • Qeltar
    4326 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    I know...but think about that heavy Barriss nerf and how many people were upset. What they don't know is to what degree a given nerf will create the tipping point for widespread nerf-rage...which leads to flame, refund demands, etc. That's a bad outcome they'd like to avoid. Whether this is enough or not, I'm just giving them credit for learning from a past mistake. I think this is the proper approach - maybe this isn't the solution for now - but if I had to choose a preference of approach it would be baby steps instead of massive nerf bat.
    Fair enough on credit for the Barriss nerf. Which by the way, they have never admitted to being excessive. And they said at the time that they wouldn't be afraid to nerf like that again.. but it's clear they are now.
    After weeks of smugly telling us they had this situation under control, making a mostly-irrelevant change and then saying "we may adjust him again" is IMO the worst possible approach. Everyone is like.. so will he be nerfed again or not? What does it depend on? Should I level him up? If I do and he's nerfed everyone will drop him, but if I don't, I'll be at a competitive disadvantage.
    If you're going to rip the bandaid off, just do it!
    I will say though, that with tankier builds - similar to the ones I've been using - the reduced expose actually will help.

    Sure it will help a bit. But those teams are still also going to use Poe if they want the best chance to win. Unless you mean some other team composition than I'm thinking of.
    Quit 7/14/16. Best of luck to all of you.
  • I am guessing these problems you guys run into are in the top 10 rank in Arena. I am rank 60 and havent seen any of this. I see a large variety of team makeups all with their own challenges. And certain characters match better against other characters. I am guessing the balancing issue is when you are facing fully maxed out teams in top Ranks, because otherwise I completely dont see what you guys are talking about.
  • Poe is fine after he gets "changed"

    439-259-888 I have a bad habit of editing my typo's after posting
  • Zetto
    178 posts Member
    I am guessing these problems you guys run into are in the top 10 rank in Arena.
    Duh, Poe is the ONLY way to get into top 10, so obviously top 10, nay, top 50 is choke-full of Poe teams

  • I feel that Poe is nerfed enough. However, let's see how he'll perform after the patch. After all, we've spent weeks farming those Poe shards to get him to 7 Star and to gear him up. He might become useless after another nerf, and all would happen thanks to the forum and not thanks to a deep analysis...
  • Are you going to do anything about this?
    TahLnzM.png

    In my opinion the problem isn't Poe, it's the ability to see who does or doesn't have Poe. From this (small and biased) poll you can see that it is a 50/50 split between being liked or disliked. Would you really implement a new feature when half of the playerbase is against it.

    And the other half isn't against it. More reasonable to not implement if it was not 50/50 split in favor of the not.
    829-416-931
  • Depends on the age of the leaderboard. My leaderboard just hit 70. I am in rank 9 now with no poe. I had been going for a tany counter team. Phasma, kylo, 5's, but it was not working. I am in the process of starring up poe and going for a modified droid team.
  • RAYRAY
    2633 posts Member
    From a Poe owner's viewpoint, I wouldn't be opposed to simply making the turn meter reduction resistible. This way the odds are the other team is going to get some moves in even after the taunt/turn meter mojo, since not everyone will be affected. Problem Solved.

    This is a good suggestion. It should be at most a 40-50% chance to reduce the turn meter of each enemy. That would make it much more "fair". As it stands now, Poe is still broken and the Arena Meta is broken because of it. Some toons should do a LOT of damage and be a real threat. But they should have a big weakness (Glass). With Poe, those weaknesses are not there. Anyone defending Poe's 100% turn meter reduction is probably just trying to protect their "I win" button and don't really like fair competition.
    ☮ Consular ☮ American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor) JedhaYavin IV
  • Triqui
    2790 posts Member
    Zetto wrote: »
    I am guessing these problems you guys run into are in the top 10 rank in Arena.
    Duh, Poe is the ONLY way to get into top 10, so obviously top 10, nay, top 50 is choke-full of Poe teams

    Let's not exagerate issues. I'm top 10 in my arena and I'n Poe-less. There are other ways.
  • ZarAzi
    249 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    CronozNL wrote: »
    Poe is fine after he gets "changed"

    https://www. youtube.com/watch?v=llSqRUqmfzg

    Thanks for taking your time to upload the video. It's pretty obvious to a lot of us that on Offense you CAN win. It's NOT impossible. Quick question, how far do you drop in your ladder with that team on Defense? You don't have to answer because the answer is obvious. A Droid team with Poe is hardly a whale team. You say you're on the meta. I can gladly say you're not. Meta isn't just about how well your team does on offense. It's also taking into considering the AI Defense aspect of your team. How viable your is your team on Defense? You know the answers to this. Uploading videos of you winning against teams with Poe without using Poe makes this argument bias and one sided. Stop spreading misinformation. It isn't fair to the others. Please consider the fact that your AOEs are useless on defense if your enemy taunts.
  • Kwynne4444
    161 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Kwynne4444 wrote: »
    MenaceTEC wrote: »
    Kwynne4444 wrote: »
    EA_Jesse wrote: »
    Greetings heroes,

    We wanted to take a few moments to talk to you about a very hot topic here on the forums, Poe Dameron.

    There have been numerous posts about this character and how our recent changes aren’t enough and that he will still be “OP”. We are reading each and every one of your posts, so know that you are being heard.

    As you saw in the update notes, we are making some balance changes to Poe Dameron as a first step. We will continue to monitor how Poe performs in squads after the update, and if needed we will make additional changes. We’re taking an approach of slowly adjusting characters if we feel they are too powerful instead of making changes that may be too drastic.

    @EA_Jesse

    Can we please stop giving in to the whiners? I spent money on Barriss, whining got her nerfed. I spent time and money on Poe, he got "balanced" now they want more. Every time you give into the whining you endorse it. For crying out loud you diminished him as requested, yet they still want more. It was not enough for them. Post after post after post complaining. If you look at it though it it a very small % of posters complaining they just create post after post and bring it onto posts not even pertaining to it.

    I had to message a MOD here to close a post I made thanking you guys for the communication, the Red card and such because the same few that complain no matter what you do went there and started bringing toxicity to my positive post.

    Look I hate the cookie cutter builds Poe forces as much as the next. Yes Poe makes a team much better. Yes your BEST(not only) option to counter Poe is Poe. I will not say those things are not so, they are. To balance him put him to 142 speed make him turn 8 is what you all should have done. If you do that now though you need to put everything else back as was or else he has been severely weakened. You mentioned making less things in his gearing. Do we who already had to put all that work in get anything back to compensate for our loss? Sure we got to use him as was, but we may not have focused so much on him as he will be. Others now get the choice to, we do not.

    Jesse though guess what? Soon as these folks who are whining on Poe start seeing a geared up Rey that is Turn 7 and can obliterate any toon in 1 hit they will flood the forum again whining about cookie cutter Rey builds. Rey is just slower to farm, but once a lot have her, same thing. You can't make them happy. They will always have an OP toon to complain about because flooding the forum with complaints is easier than putting in the time, effort and work to strategize and grind for toons. So much easier to wait until really good ones are found, then get the pitchforks out and call for a nerfing at the stake.

    Look I hate to talk about P2P vs F2P but Jesse I spend a lot of money on this game and I'm tired of spending it to gear up toons with good kits only to have them nerfed because of people whining. I'm sure others who put in money to do the same are tired of their money being wasted when that toon is "balanced" due to whining. Go back to Barriss. I spent $50 on the pack, sure there was more in it. Ventress, bugged and too slow too low HP not viable in arena. Tano, same minus the bugs. I geared her up and spent far more than 500 crystals to do so, plus my cash investment. She was nerfed to whining, my money, in my opinion, wasted as what I paid for was changed. I paid for a Wagu, but what I ended up being served was Choice. Still good, but not what I paid for. I spent a ton of crystals gearing Poe up fast to stay competative. If he gets nerfed even more how can I ever justify spending on this game? F2P are important to the game, P2P are essential though as EA/CG is for profit. You keep nerfing whenever people complain and many of us will not see the point in spending money. Nerf me once shame on you, nerf me twice, shame on me, a third will not happen. I'm growing tired of spending time, energy, and money to build only to have it destroyed by whiners getting their way. As I said in other threads if you don't like it take your ball and go home. Much more pandering to the whiners that causes my time and money to have been wasted I'll be taking my own advice and taking my ball, and cash, and going home.

    By giving into the complainers you give them more power. Nerf Poe again Jesse. Wait and watch in a month, maybe less, it will be another toon being called to the nerf poll.

    I had my $800 Secura 1 hit by Rey before she went. Can we nerf Rey please? She is too fast for her output. Leia triple shot me first turn and killed my Lumi. Please nerf her. I couldn't kill FOTP and his near 14k health and he killed my team. Can we nerf him? Geo 1 hit my Sid first turn nerf him. Where does it end Jesse?


    Sorry to be negative I'm not attacking anyone here. I'm just sick of the whining. I spend money here, a decent amount and I'm sick and tired of seeing my investment damaged because people have nothing better to do than flood the forum with complaints about unfair toons and them getting downgraded. Barriss heal was beatable, Poe beatable. Nerf unbeatable. The new meta will soon be complain about a toon you can't beat or hate facing until they are nerfed,lol.

    Now just so this is not a problem only post here is a solution. You nerf a toon who someone spent money on leveling(yes I know you can check that on accounts) You give the effected player a choice of 1/2 the crystals they spent doing the shard grinding and gear grinding and they keep the toon as is, or a full crystal refund to gear and grind the toon from activation in return for that toon going back to activation level. It is unfair to gear someone only to have them nerfed due to whining.

    Ok rant over bring on the hate I'm sure to get here and I wager I know some of who will come at me for this,lol.

    Why build someone that many people are complaining about being op. What do you think would happen when you see so many post about nerf poe or anyone for that matter. There are plenty of people that you could of built instead of poe. Maybe next time stay out of the meta because majority of meta characters will eventually be "balanced"

    That statement... I can't find the words. It's so insane.

    There are plenty of characters and alot of combinations... you do not need to stick to meta. When alot of people want a nerf or complain about a nerf its most likely going to happen.

    I have 3 chars at very high levels that got "fixes" or "nerfs". Poe, Phasma and FOTP. Why not neft Sid? Rey? QGJ? FOO? GS? If You see at the very high end what is happening, that's how things are goong to be for everyone else in a month.

    If only the devs could do a Montecarlo simulation of chars outcomes, and then not nerf - except when a combi has no realistic counters.

    I said at some points majority of the top 5 meta teams will get "balanced" so far like you said poe (phasma was a bug and so was fotp) where the lucky one to get "balanced "
  • Did anyone play heroes of dragon age? Same company and same problem existed. Remember Merrill, Wynne, and Fiona one shotting everyone before your party had a chance. Same useless tanks, same dps meta. In fact each update necessitated the speed/damage meta more and more. Didn't change then and wouldnt expect it to change now. Just come to grips that may have to lower your expectations.
  • RAYRAY
    2633 posts Member
    If you have the right team they just made poe not a factor. Poe goes first taunts you remove taunt. Ok he does not damage and now his expose hits half the time and he cant even resist healing immunity anymore. Time to switch to Chewbacca.

    Not to be rude but if you think the expose is why Poe was strong, you obviously never played against a fully decked out Poe team. Poe will still make his team go first so 1-3 of your characters will be dead or close to it by the time you get a turn. Make Chewbacca go first and then he may become viable. They should remove the turn meter reduction and leave everything else the way it is.
    ☮ Consular ☮ American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor) JedhaYavin IV
  • EA_Jesse wrote: »
    Greetings heroes,

    We wanted to take a few moments to talk to you about a very hot topic here on the forums, Poe Dameron.

    There have been numerous posts about this character and how our recent changes aren’t enough and that he will still be “OP”. We are reading each and every one of your posts, so know that you are being heard.

    As you saw in the update notes, we are making some balance changes to Poe Dameron as a first step. We will continue to monitor how Poe performs in squads after the update, and if needed we will make additional changes. We’re taking an approach of slowly adjusting characters if we feel they are too powerful instead of making changes that may be too drastic.

    @EA_Jesse

    Can we please stop giving in to the whiners? I spent money on Barriss, whining got her nerfed. I spent time and money on Poe, he got "balanced" now they want more. Every time you give into the whining you endorse it. For crying out loud you diminished him as requested, yet they still want more. It was not enough for them. Post after post after post complaining. If you look at it though it it a very small % of posters complaining they just create post after post and bring it onto posts not even pertaining to it.

    I had to message a MOD here to close a post I made thanking you guys for the communication, the Red card and such because the same few that complain no matter what you do went there and started bringing toxicity to my positive post.

    Look I hate the cookie cutter builds Poe forces as much as the next. Yes Poe makes a team much better. Yes your BEST(not only) option to counter Poe is Poe. I will not say those things are not so, they are. To balance him put him to 142 speed make him turn 8 is what you all should have done. If you do that now though you need to put everything else back as was or else he has been severely weakened. You mentioned making less things in his gearing. Do we who already had to put all that work in get anything back to compensate for our loss? Sure we got to use him as was, but we may not have focused so much on him as he will be. Others now get the choice to, we do not.

    Jesse though guess what? Soon as these folks who are whining on Poe start seeing a geared up Rey that is Turn 7 and can obliterate any toon in 1 hit they will flood the forum again whining about cookie cutter Rey builds. Rey is just slower to farm, but once a lot have her, same thing. You can't make them happy. They will always have an OP toon to complain about because flooding the forum with complaints is easier than putting in the time, effort and work to strategize and grind for toons. So much easier to wait until really good ones are found, then get the pitchforks out and call for a nerfing at the stake.

    Look I hate to talk about P2P vs F2P but Jesse I spend a lot of money on this game and I'm tired of spending it to gear up toons with good kits only to have them nerfed because of people whining. I'm sure others who put in money to do the same are tired of their money being wasted when that toon is "balanced" due to whining. Go back to Barriss. I spent $50 on the pack, sure there was more in it. Ventress, bugged and too slow too low HP not viable in arena. Tano, same minus the bugs. I geared her up and spent far more than 500 crystals to do so, plus my cash investment. She was nerfed to whining, my money, in my opinion, wasted as what I paid for was changed. I paid for a Wagu, but what I ended up being served was Choice. Still good, but not what I paid for. I spent a ton of crystals gearing Poe up fast to stay competative. If he gets nerfed even more how can I ever justify spending on this game? F2P are important to the game, P2P are essential though as EA/CG is for profit. You keep nerfing whenever people complain and many of us will not see the point in spending money. Nerf me once shame on you, nerf me twice, shame on me, a third will not happen. I'm growing tired of spending time, energy, and money to build only to have it destroyed by whiners getting their way. As I said in other threads if you don't like it take your ball and go home. Much more pandering to the whiners that causes my time and money to have been wasted I'll be taking my own advice and taking my ball, and cash, and going home.

    By giving into the complainers you give them more power. Nerf Poe again Jesse. Wait and watch in a month, maybe less, it will be another toon being called to the nerf poll.

    I had my $800 Secura 1 hit by Rey before she went. Can we nerf Rey please? She is too fast for her output. Leia triple shot me first turn and killed my Lumi. Please nerf her. I couldn't kill FOTP and his near 14k health and he killed my team. Can we nerf him? Geo 1 hit my Sid first turn nerf him. Where does it end Jesse?


    Sorry to be negative I'm not attacking anyone here. I'm just sick of the whining. I spend money here, a decent amount and I'm sick and tired of seeing my investment damaged because people have nothing better to do than flood the forum with complaints about unfair toons and them getting downgraded. Barriss heal was beatable, Poe beatable. Nerf unbeatable. The new meta will soon be complain about a toon you can't beat or hate facing until they are nerfed,lol.

    Now just so this is not a problem only post here is a solution. You nerf a toon who someone spent money on leveling(yes I know you can check that on accounts) You give the effected player a choice of 1/2 the crystals they spent doing the shard grinding and gear grinding and they keep the toon as is, or a full crystal refund to gear and grind the toon from activation in return for that toon going back to activation level. It is unfair to gear someone only to have them nerfed due to whining.

    Ok rant over bring on the hate I'm sure to get here and I wager I know some of who will come at me for this,lol.

    i agree with %100. Cg must care who dont whining here because of whiners taking what they want but who dont whine and spent money and time for those toons, they will be break the game without a cry, just blame and ashame.
  • I played hoda and have made the same comment. CG loves high speed and high damage toons. This makes almost all other characters useless.
  • LukeSkywalker420
    460 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    RAYRAY wrote: »
    If you have the right team they just made poe not a factor. Poe goes first taunts you remove taunt. Ok he does not damage and now his expose hits half the time and he cant even resist healing immunity anymore. Time to switch to Chewbacca.

    Not to be rude but if you think the expose is why Poe was strong, you obviously never played against a fully decked out Poe team. Poe will still make his team go first so 1-3 of your characters will be dead or close to it by the time you get a turn. Make Chewbacca go first and then he may become viable. They should remove the turn meter reduction and leave everything else the way it is.

    Point taken. I started playing a month ago so havent run into this yet. Leaderboard still relatively young i guess.

  • Mizo
    172 posts Member
    Keep making the game how you choose EA/CGwhich are decisions based on profit. If you cater to all the socialistic people who want everyone to be the same and everyone to be a winner and get a trophy then in the end no one will play and soon after the layoffs start. If I purchase something for real dollars it better be good and not be taken away afterwards because all the people who contribute nothing but forum posts want the same benefit as the pay to play. Give them a road to get it later if you want using their own time and effort but don't cave to people who think everything just should be changed when they don't win. Basically since everyone can have just about any toon maxed out in the game within a month I'm surprised to see so much nerf talk. Get your own Poe or FOTP or what ever char you like to play. Don't post to nerf my deck because yours can't beat it. Get one that can.
  • If you have the right team they just made poe not a factor. Poe goes first taunts you remove taunt. Ok he does not damage and now his expose hits half the time and he cant even resist healing immunity anymore. Time to switch to Chewbacca.

    Hahaha! Rofl! Hey, I'm farming Poe too but there are dozens of pro Poe guys shouting down everyone against them with this lame argument.

    Are they trolling or they seriously don't understand what's going on? Taunt, what taunt? When has the taunt ever been an issue?

    BTW, me and I assume quite a few people here have started investing in Poe because of the announcement. I hope the devs come up with another way to counter Poe and maybe fix the one shot kills.
  • Triqui
    2790 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    fikretkuru wrote: »
    EA_Jesse wrote: »
    Greetings heroes,

    We wanted to take a few moments to talk to you about a very hot topic here on the forums, Poe Dameron.

    There have been numerous posts about this character and how our recent changes aren’t enough and that he will still be “OP”. We are reading each and every one of your posts, so know that you are being heard.

    As you saw in the update notes, we are making some balance changes to Poe Dameron as a first step. We will continue to monitor how Poe performs in squads after the update, and if needed we will make additional changes. We’re taking an approach of slowly adjusting characters if we feel they are too powerful instead of making changes that may be too drastic.

    @EA_Jesse

    Can we please stop giving in to the whiners? I spent money on Barriss, whining got her nerfed. I spent time and money on Poe, he got "balanced" now they want more. Every time you give into the whining you endorse it. For crying out loud you diminished him as requested, yet they still want more. It was not enough for them. Post after post after post complaining. If you look at it though it it a very small % of posters complaining they just create post after post and bring it onto posts not even pertaining to it.

    I had to message a MOD here to close a post I made thanking you guys for the communication, the Red card and such because the same few that complain no matter what you do went there and started bringing toxicity to my positive post.

    Look I hate the cookie cutter builds Poe forces as much as the next. Yes Poe makes a team much better. Yes your BEST(not only) option to counter Poe is Poe. I will not say those things are not so, they are. To balance him put him to 142 speed make him turn 8 is what you all should have done. If you do that now though you need to put everything else back as was or else he has been severely weakened. You mentioned making less things in his gearing. Do we who already had to put all that work in get anything back to compensate for our loss? Sure we got to use him as was, but we may not have focused so much on him as he will be. Others now get the choice to, we do not.

    Jesse though guess what? Soon as these folks who are whining on Poe start seeing a geared up Rey that is Turn 7 and can obliterate any toon in 1 hit they will flood the forum again whining about cookie cutter Rey builds. Rey is just slower to farm, but once a lot have her, same thing. You can't make them happy. They will always have an OP toon to complain about because flooding the forum with complaints is easier than putting in the time, effort and work to strategize and grind for toons. So much easier to wait until really good ones are found, then get the pitchforks out and call for a nerfing at the stake.

    Look I hate to talk about P2P vs F2P but Jesse I spend a lot of money on this game and I'm tired of spending it to gear up toons with good kits only to have them nerfed because of people whining. I'm sure others who put in money to do the same are tired of their money being wasted when that toon is "balanced" due to whining. Go back to Barriss. I spent $50 on the pack, sure there was more in it. Ventress, bugged and too slow too low HP not viable in arena. Tano, same minus the bugs. I geared her up and spent far more than 500 crystals to do so, plus my cash investment. She was nerfed to whining, my money, in my opinion, wasted as what I paid for was changed. I paid for a Wagu, but what I ended up being served was Choice. Still good, but not what I paid for. I spent a ton of crystals gearing Poe up fast to stay competative. If he gets nerfed even more how can I ever justify spending on this game? F2P are important to the game, P2P are essential though as EA/CG is for profit. You keep nerfing whenever people complain and many of us will not see the point in spending money. Nerf me once shame on you, nerf me twice, shame on me, a third will not happen. I'm growing tired of spending time, energy, and money to build only to have it destroyed by whiners getting their way. As I said in other threads if you don't like it take your ball and go home. Much more pandering to the whiners that causes my time and money to have been wasted I'll be taking my own advice and taking my ball, and cash, and going home.

    By giving into the complainers you give them more power. Nerf Poe again Jesse. Wait and watch in a month, maybe less, it will be another toon being called to the nerf poll.

    I had my $800 Secura 1 hit by Rey before she went. Can we nerf Rey please? She is too fast for her output. Leia triple shot me first turn and killed my Lumi. Please nerf her. I couldn't kill FOTP and his near 14k health and he killed my team. Can we nerf him? Geo 1 hit my Sid first turn nerf him. Where does it end Jesse?


    Sorry to be negative I'm not attacking anyone here. I'm just sick of the whining. I spend money here, a decent amount and I'm sick and tired of seeing my investment damaged because people have nothing better to do than flood the forum with complaints about unfair toons and them getting downgraded. Barriss heal was beatable, Poe beatable. Nerf unbeatable. The new meta will soon be complain about a toon you can't beat or hate facing until they are nerfed,lol.

    Now just so this is not a problem only post here is a solution. You nerf a toon who someone spent money on leveling(yes I know you can check that on accounts) You give the effected player a choice of 1/2 the crystals they spent doing the shard grinding and gear grinding and they keep the toon as is, or a full crystal refund to gear and grind the toon from activation in return for that toon going back to activation level. It is unfair to gear someone only to have them nerfed due to whining.

    Ok rant over bring on the hate I'm sure to get here and I wager I know some of who will come at me for this,lol.

    i agree with %100. Cg must care who dont whining here because of whiners taking what they want but who dont whine and spent money and time for those toons, they will be break the game without a cry, just blame and ashame.
    Do you think anyone of the people arguing here for a fix for Poe is f2p? Because I'm pretty sure the ones who are being more active are not. I've spent 250$ myself and might be the one who has spent less from those arguing for it.

    So stop doing your stupid assumptions and generalizations about people. Our position about this (both pro and anti) has nothing to do with the amount of money spent or the amount of time played or having or not Poe. Some vocal people against him have 7* Poe, others don't have him. Some people who defend he is ok have him, others don't. Some are f2p others are MobyDick sized whales. And our stances (pro or anti nerf) are individual. We are not s hive mind
  • Keaven
    1099 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    The issue of incremental change is a good approach, however CG is starting in the wrong place with Poe.

    As previously mentioned, the problem with Poe has nothing to do with his exposing opponents, this merely adds insult to injury.

    I believe Poes speed and taunt ability are good for the game to allow glass heroes, such as Maul, or IG 88 to now play a part in the end-game meta.

    The deeper issue at hand is the focus towards high DPS, due to the damage output of several heroes (one of which is being properly nerfed FOTP). The fact that there are heroes that can effectively 1 shot (with or wothout buffs), steers the end-game meta towards quick (coin toss) matches that are won and lost by stacking damage output and hoping for the better RNG.

    Further to that, both players start with 5 heroes. Being able to kill in one shot means all focus becomes based on the result of your first turn and how many opponents you can kill to gain an advatage, for eg making it 5 vs 4 after the first hero action can win you a match by default, and actions like healing or resurrecting become a waste of a hero turn, and redundant.

    Contrary to that is a defense or stall meta whereby insufficient damage can be achieved in 5 minutes to win matches, as shown by effectiveness of the original Barriss when added to the early game meta. As she was, her ability to stall matches would still have been overshadowed by the current end game DPS meta over time as people were able to access, and subsequently upgrade abilities of the current (or even original) pool of heroes.

    Due to this overall imbalance of offense vs defense, it is the turn meter reduction of Poe (being a top tier speed hero) that now grants even more advantage to a high DPS squad, such that a 5th DPS is better off being sacrificed in order to have 4 heroes effectively hit faster instead.

    Whilst I believe overall movement should be made to reducing damage output, in the short term, Poes ability to reduce turn meter guaranteed to all enemy so early in the match (and given the AI will also do this granting an effective offensive strategy while defending), is what makes Poe the only hero I always recommend anyone to farm over all else, even if only to defend against enemy Poes once they start to appear in their arena.

    Here is where change should start, not end, as by the time his turn burn is touched he may become completely obsolete and the end result will be no different to the Barriss changes (which I still believe could be completely reverted).

    The fact that he is such a slow to develope hero, due to the fact Cantina shipment heroes are the slowest to farm (which you can see easily in my hero farming guide here on the forums), is why this situation will get worse over time as long as this is not changed.

    For the record, I play two accounts, and although I planned on playing them differently to test a wider array of heroes, had I not also focused on Poe and DPS on my alt account, I would have risked not being able to maintain the economy high arena ranking allows, and so both accounts use DPS arena squads with Poe to enable ranking 1 daily in the arena.

    There is also already a wealth of experience about endgame meta amongst player groups of hardocre players without limits of resources combined with the f2p experience, such as FTB and iNstinct, that have a deeper understanding of the end game meta than the average forumite. Whilst every opinion is important, these groups combined have a highly practical experience to back up their opinions across varied arena leaderboards.

    This seems to be a relatively untapped resource for CG, of which all could benefit from a more direct and open dialogue.
    Profile: Keaven
    Guild: Fear The Boot
  • Caspertricks
    46 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Fixing defense in game in general, armor, buffs, health, ect will fix 100 different issues with balance in one swipe, no nerfs necessary. *mic drop*
  • I submit also, as have mentioned before.... Defense is not working correctly. Tanks should be able to grab aggro and take a hit. The higher defense/armor the less damage they take. Tanks dont hit very hard to compensate for high defense. As of right now, we put up high damage toons and they easily overpower defense. Reduce 300 damage, psshhhh we will hit for 8000, no problem. Secondly Tanks should by nature have at least an auto taunt like Royal Guard. A Tanks without a taunt is just a high hitpoint low damaging scrapper. Tanks are supposed to absorb damage off the squishies.

    If you build a defense based team, they should take almost no damage. This is where team composition comes into play. Stuns, buff removal, defense penetration, and offense up buffs to counter defense. The answer should not be put a taunter and 4 glass cannons in the group. This invalidates support class and those whom mitigate damage.
    Ingame name Daremo
    Player Ally Code: 631-533-975
  • Did anyone play heroes of dragon age? Same company and same problem existed. Remember Merrill, Wynne, and Fiona one shotting everyone before your party had a chance. Same useless tanks, same dps meta. In fact each update necessitated the speed/damage meta more and more. Didn't change then and wouldnt expect it to change now. Just come to grips that may have to lower your expectations.

    If that is what happened in HoDA and CG didn't learn from it, then I guess we should forget about looking for a fix and diversity (despite what CG would claim) and just jump onto the high speed/dps bandwagon... CG must really love all the current fireworks and matches getting done in less than 2 minutes. Perhaps that is why they nerfed Barriss; she was making matches last too long for their taste.

    Keavan has stated the root of the problem in a very well-organised, constructive manner, but I am sure some will continue to call it out as whining, incompetent, lack strategy, girl or whatever...
  • Dear EA, can you pls make all leader abilities stack with each other. Because my Chewbacca's "Wookiee Resolve" doesnt activate with my Savage Opress' "Pain is Weakness" everytime their together in a battle.
  • Small changes are all well and good but the change you have proposed does not change the op issues with him in the slightest. So it is like a wasted nerf? Meaning instead of a small change to his ability to go first, then allow your entire team to go first, with a taunt they must also get through before reaching multiple characters capable of 1shotting...you nerf other aspects of him so when you finLly get round to the issue he will be even more needed than he needed to be...the OPPOSITE of what people want, because it will most likely lead to over nerfing him, whilst taking longer.


    Would really appreciate it if you even reverted these changes and just fixed the actual problem with him. Even if you fix the actual problem in slow steps... else he will just be super over nerfed by the time you do and up until you do he will still be a huge problem, not because of his own abilities or tenacity or health (other than going first and letting the rest of your team then go ahead of the enemy) it is the power of sooooo many other characters that can easily gain an overwhelming advantage when all allowed to take their turns first, leaving multiple enemies dead the majority of the time.
  • EM650
    1120 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    I have suffered against Poe and I have succeeded with him. I am okay with his speed and I am okay with his taunt to protect weaker team members.

    IMHO, the only thing that needed adjustig on Poe is the turn meter reduction that allows DPS players to demolish a team before players like Sid or Dooku have put their pants on for the fight.

    Could someone shed some light on whether there is something more I am not seeing?
  • Abyss
    1651 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    I will go on record as saying good job to the devs for instituting small changes and monitoring rather then just neutering a toon like you did bariss.....

    That said, since the devs are basically admitting what they did to bariss was overkill, can a dev comment on the possibility of buffing her heal to a resonable lvl so she is again useable????

    Also i go on record as saying poes tenacity has 0 to do with his effectivness in that his speed + excessivly functional multipurpose taunt are why hes so good. I am NOT saying hes OP but i will say that once he taunts (which dang near happens 1st in each battle due to his speed) the damage is done. Makes little difference if you can remove the taunt because he has already exposed some of your ppl, sped up all his, and forced the one action you get (when you get it) into being directed at him before his team all fires away unopposed while you watch.

    Tenacity = meaningless to poe
    Speed = everything to him

    Imo he is NOT op BUT he is too fast for his role. A taunting tank should not be that fast
    Post edited by Abyss on
  • The problem is not Poe! The problem is the damage inflicted from the other 4 toons. Too high!
  • LOUD NOISES! I don't know what we're yelling about! - Brick Tamland

    - Fungushnitzel

    Holy moly guys, calm down.
This discussion has been closed.