Poe Dameron balancing

Replies

  • Poe knows Star Wars Galaxy of Heroes!
    Bo knows baseball.
    Bye Forums.
  • TweetTromp wrote: »
    Considering Poe is obtainable for free through Cantina Shipments and after making QGJ also available through Cantina shipments (kudos to EA for that), I feel Poe is fine where he is (even without the nerf). I understand where people are coming from who believe his toolkit is too powerful, but everyone is on a level playing field. Anyone, whether F2P or P2P, can 7* him and utilize him in their line up. Whether or not, people 'want' to do that is an entirely different issue.

    Rather than focusing on nerfing every character that someone is unhappy with, I would rather see the devs focus on introducing new characters with a toolkit that either shifts or expands the flexibility of the current meta. Having more choices to design a team comp with the play style a person wants to incorporate would be my preference.

    The changes and additions will come in time. It's still a new game and I appreciate that the dev team is choosing to test the waters with small steps rather than changing the game entirely overnight.

    Spot on.
  • J7000
    2059 posts Member
    Qeltar wrote: »
    Barrok wrote: »
    @qeltar, I have plenty of understanding of the game and it's mechanics. I play hours every day, and have spent a good amount of money. I am a top 5player on my server and I use Poe and play against Poe multiple times daily (and beat multiple Poe teams, even if I go second).
    Sure you do.
    And yet you have absolutely no clue why Poe makes one-shotting DPS characters dramatically worse.
    Barrok wrote: »
    Maybe there is a reason so many people are calling you out, because we all share the same opinion on you spamming the boards.
    I couldn't care less. I do find it amusing that you are simultaneously whining about me posting too much in this thread AND continuing to call me out by name so I get a notification to come back here and respond. You might think about how those two actions interact.

    We all get the point dude. We read it 500 different ways repeated multiple times.

    I fully grasp how he makes the problem worse. I'm not blessed with 7* QGJ, Leia, and FOTP, yet on my bracket many in the top 20 are and use it, so I have the problem shoved down my throat in arena 12k crit at a time as I sit there helpless to do squat but Ice Poe and hope I can turn the tide, sometimes I do, others I do not. I get the problem. It frickkin blows watching 2/5 drop sometimes 3/5 before you can act. Understood, it sucks. No need to post 500 times about it though.

    I also get it when I meet 5,6,7,8 at times Poe DPS teams maxed out in my GW march. It sucks. It annoys. It causes curses and phone spikes. After I'm through it it causes elation, a sense of "dang I just survived a bloodbath gauntlet"

    I will say this 142 speed for Poe keep all as was. There we go. I also agree with speed toons being more Dooku like that Barrok I believe stated. Give them cool abilities(not TM manipulation on large scale, maybe their own though) and lesser damage.

    I'll go here and say look at some of the top Damage dealers
    Geo
    Rey
    Leia
    all Over 143 all 3 can 1 hit your toons. Now face all 3 at once, you can be down 2-3 toons easy. They all 3 have turn 7 speed, all 3 can go 1st, all 3 can go before you act, Poe or no Poe. So the problem is there without Poe. Poe going first makes it a guarentee they go before you act. Take Poe out though and they all still could, in reality, go before you can.

    Let me ask this. Please be honest. If they Nerf Poe for you and you Face a Team, Of let's see, Phasma, Leia, Rey, GS, Daka and the Force is not with you and Rey, Leia, GS go before you and kill 2-3 of your toons will you still complain? Then they nerf all 3 of them for you and they pull out say Leia put in Poggle and Poggle goes boosting them all up and round 2 Rey and GS go off with massive hits destroying your team, will you complain? Yes what about Han? Han effects TM a ton. I think our question is when will it end, the complaining that is?

    I get the problem. Poe makes deadly even more deadly. Deadly though is deadly, with or with out additive.

    Think about this, maybe bad analogy. High DPS is a bullet. Very deadly, Poe is like making that hollow tip. That bullet is deadly, the hollow tip far more.

    I get the pain you feel. I feel it in arena and GW daily. I am and have adapted to it.

    Have faith when Jar Jar comes out all will be balanced and all will perish by the mighty Jar Jar.

    Cheers all.

    If you've actually read his posts he already has a list of "op" characters that need his graceful correction. He's become the most grandiose poster in the forum. His opinions are not opinions; they are the new law you must embrace or be labeled "suppressive persons".
  • J7000 wrote: »
    Qeltar wrote: »
    Barrok wrote: »
    @qeltar, I have plenty of understanding of the game and it's mechanics. I play hours every day, and have spent a good amount of money. I am a top 5player on my server and I use Poe and play against Poe multiple times daily (and beat multiple Poe teams, even if I go second).
    Sure you do.
    And yet you have absolutely no clue why Poe makes one-shotting DPS characters dramatically worse.
    Barrok wrote: »
    Maybe there is a reason so many people are calling you out, because we all share the same opinion on you spamming the boards.
    I couldn't care less. I do find it amusing that you are simultaneously whining about me posting too much in this thread AND continuing to call me out by name so I get a notification to come back here and respond. You might think about how those two actions interact.

    We all get the point dude. We read it 500 different ways repeated multiple times.

    I fully grasp how he makes the problem worse. I'm not blessed with 7* QGJ, Leia, and FOTP, yet on my bracket many in the top 20 are and use it, so I have the problem shoved down my throat in arena 12k crit at a time as I sit there helpless to do squat but Ice Poe and hope I can turn the tide, sometimes I do, others I do not. I get the problem. It frickkin blows watching 2/5 drop sometimes 3/5 before you can act. Understood, it sucks. No need to post 500 times about it though.

    I also get it when I meet 5,6,7,8 at times Poe DPS teams maxed out in my GW march. It sucks. It annoys. It causes curses and phone spikes. After I'm through it it causes elation, a sense of "dang I just survived a bloodbath gauntlet"

    I will say this 142 speed for Poe keep all as was. There we go. I also agree with speed toons being more Dooku like that Barrok I believe stated. Give them cool abilities(not TM manipulation on large scale, maybe their own though) and lesser damage.

    I'll go here and say look at some of the top Damage dealers
    Geo
    Rey
    Leia
    all Over 143 all 3 can 1 hit your toons. Now face all 3 at once, you can be down 2-3 toons easy. They all 3 have turn 7 speed, all 3 can go 1st, all 3 can go before you act, Poe or no Poe. So the problem is there without Poe. Poe going first makes it a guarentee they go before you act. Take Poe out though and they all still could, in reality, go before you can.

    Let me ask this. Please be honest. If they Nerf Poe for you and you Face a Team, Of let's see, Phasma, Leia, Rey, GS, Daka and the Force is not with you and Rey, Leia, GS go before you and kill 2-3 of your toons will you still complain? Then they nerf all 3 of them for you and they pull out say Leia put in Poggle and Poggle goes boosting them all up and round 2 Rey and GS go off with massive hits destroying your team, will you complain? Yes what about Han? Han effects TM a ton. I think our question is when will it end, the complaining that is?

    I get the problem. Poe makes deadly even more deadly. Deadly though is deadly, with or with out additive.

    Think about this, maybe bad analogy. High DPS is a bullet. Very deadly, Poe is like making that hollow tip. That bullet is deadly, the hollow tip far more.

    I get the pain you feel. I feel it in arena and GW daily. I am and have adapted to it.

    Have faith when Jar Jar comes out all will be balanced and all will perish by the mighty Jar Jar.

    Cheers all.

    If you've actually read his posts he already has a list of "op" characters that need his graceful correction. He's become the most grandiose poster in the forum. His opinions are not opinions; they are the new law you must embrace or be labeled "suppressive persons".

    Lay off him, he's at least offering solutions and often is spot on, all this bickering back and forth about him is becoming seriously toxic. Can we focus on the game instead of bullying one guy because of how often he posts? If you disagree with anybody how about refuting their argument with a logical one of your own instead of resorting to off topic personal attacks.
    We're all passionate and keen players here and just want the game to be as fun and fair as it possibly can be.
  • M9silent
    821 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Seriously. You guys are ridiculous. Discuss the game or get off the forums. This isn't a personal discussion about your feelings on a poster. It's a thread discussing Poe Dameron. Discuss him or get out

    Edit: spelling
  • The irony of coming into a stickied dev started post on Poe dameron to whine about people complaining Poe is too strong... Then making ad hominems focused on their posting habits and what they might be doing to the forums ahaha

    I giggled :)
  • M9silent wrote: »
    Seriously. You guys are ridiculous. Discuss the game or get off the forums. This isn't a personal discussion about your feelings on a poster. It's a thread discussing Poe Dameron. Discuss him or get out

    You know those folks that reply-to-all, demanding to stop responding to all? yeah...
  • Wispsi wrote: »
    The irony of coming into a stickied dev started post on Poe dameron to whine about people complaining Poe is too strong... Then making ad hominems focused on their posting habits and what they might be doing to the forums ahaha

    I giggled :)

    The post was to announce they nerfed and will be monitoring. To take a character that has just been made worst significantly (yes, 1 less Expose or two means one and maybe two chars alive, means about 15% less damage from supporting chars like IG-88, and other bad consequences), and more vulnerable to stuns (which go earlier), to complain that this has made things actually worst (there is a post with just a title like that), and directing at how CG has no clue...for me, it's insukting. The parch hasn't even been launched yet. I am sorry by extreme whining can get ocassional remarks about the poster, and I don't think any of those has been flaming or toxic.

    We had a char that required no nerfing nerfed. And the announcement that he was nerfed and is on the "endangered species" list, to then read for the 70th post the same iver and over in bold and in such terms is for me disrespecting. Not just of one person in particular, for for all that own this character, or don't own and like it. If you want to nerf nerf Sid and Phasma. They lead 78% of my top 50 Arena and are OP.

    Also, if you know the forum history, many here crying nerf (you know who you are) have many many post silencing people that proposed to nerf other characters in the past 3 mo, so.....
  • FakeRobbo wrote: »

    Lay off him, he's at least offering solutions and often is spot on, all this bickering back and forth about him is becoming seriously toxic. Can we focus on the game instead of bullying one guy because of how often he posts? If you disagree with anybody how about refuting their argument with a logical one of your own instead of resorting to off topic personal attacks.
    We're all passionate and keen players here and just want the game to be as fun and fair as it possibly can be.

    THIS. Stay on target...
    In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • SaintEaters
    412 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    I like the approach but this game, like many others, has a serious balance problem. Thing is the way the characters are set up leads to a pretty much all Agro meta. High DPS characters , such as genossian soldier, should not have life or health as high as his is. If they hit like a truck they should take a hit like a princess . Darth Maul is a good example of this principle. To have a character that can do massive amounts of damage and still be able to take a beating pretty much throws the balance of the game off . So what you end up with is the current meta-, which is pretty much the same characters being used on every team because they're just the most powerful. I'm not saying that every character should be crated this way, I understand that abilities and such things also play a factor . But it still remains that there are certain characters that are too powerful and have not even been mentioned . Using genossian soldier again, he has an ability that gives him a high chance to do 50% more damage just on his basic attack besides having the assist and massive Hitpoints. Now you put in a few characters like this behind Poe which already cuts most of your teams health by 20%, takes away their turn meters, and protects the not so fragile cannons behind him and you have pretty much the current meta- because it is such a hard thing to defeat. I think that there is more than just Poe that needs to be balanced and that the dev team over at EA needs to take a long look at the current leader boards in their arena servers (and even allot of galactic war teams) to see how they should start to go about this. A balanced game should have an unpredictable outcome no matter which characters are being used on each team as well as having a variety of characters and different team makeups . That variety of choice of which characters to combine is what gives a game the longevity and fun that it needs to keep going and gain more player base . Having to run the same 5 to 10 characters every time just to not lose every game becomes very tedious and boring and can seriously cause a game to get dropped very easily.
  • ioniancat21
    2091 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    I think the issue is clearly that the devs don't play the game, so when they believe they are "balancing" things, they aren't.

    It's clear this is the case when people like Kelvyn and Naecabon seemingly predict the future and tell you where the errors are and sure enough, they happen.

    CG needs to concede that there are many players who know this game more than they do. They should turn to experienced players for input rather than thinking you know the game better when it's clear you don't....
  • I like the approach but this game, like many others, has a serious balance problem. Thing is the way the characters are set up leads to a pretty much all Agro meta. High DPS characters , such as genossian soldier, should not have life or health as high as his is. If they hit like a truck they should take a hit like a princess . Darth Maul is a good example of this principle. To have a character that can do massive amounts of damage and still be able to take a beating pretty much throws the balance of the game off . So what you end up with is the current meta-, which is pretty much the same characters being used on every team because they're just the most powerful. I'm not saying that every character should be crated this way, I understand that abilities and such things also play a factor . But it still remains that there are certain characters that are too powerful and have not even been mentioned . Using genossian soldier again, he has an ability that gives him a high chance to do 50% more damage just on his basic attack besides having the assist and massive Hitpoints. Now you put in a few characters like this behind Poe which already cuts most of your teams health by 20%, takes away their turn meters, and protects the not so fragile cannons behind him and you have pretty much the current meta- because it is such a hard thing to defeat. I think that there is more than just Poe that needs to be balanced and that the dev team over at EA needs to take a long look at the current leader boards in their arena servers (and even allot of galactic war teams) to see how they should start to go about this. A balanced game should have an unpredictable outcome no matter which characters are being used on each team as well as having a variety of characters and different team makeups . That variety of choice of which characters to combine is what gives a game the longevity and fun that it needs to keep going and gain more player base . Having to run the same 5 to 10 characters every time just to not lose every game becomes very tedious and boring and can seriously cause a game to get dropped very easily.

    I completely agree that original problem is high speed, high HP, massive damage. Suppose IG-88...it's a great droid. It's squishy. Actually it may very well be the squishiest char. You could NEVER use him unless you can have a tank to make it last at least his first turn. Remive Poe, and you remove IG-88.

    Poe doesn't invalidate GS or any of the turn 7 and turn 8 gorillas with bazukas. It creates the possibility of dealing with them. that gorilla chars can also use Poe well, that's no reason to destroy the char that creates some counter to high speed, damange and HP in one combo.

    So you think eliminating Poe would solve or make GS-like squads even more prevalent?

  • "Poe dameron balancing thread" -completely unlocked, unlike other threads that are announcements/messages and locked...

    "We are reading every post"

    Uh huh...

    People state the same thing they previously have because other people come in and state the same opposing thing they already have.

    When new people come to the forums saying "dooku is op"(and trust me below level 40 that guy isna true monster, nobody does the damage to burst him down, not even remotely close people attack for slithers of health at that level and he hits harder than most other 3* characters, he can literally solo 3 people attacking him at equal level and not because he starts at 3*) the same old people jump in and reiterate just how not op he is later on and how top players have no issues with him...and everybody agrees with them!!

    Why do you not have a go at these people defending dooku in every thread that pops up? They keep typing the same stuff over and over every time somebody who has a problem with him dares to speak up...they keep reiterating their points every time the same old arguments...yet I've never seen you have a go at people doing this...is it because you believe they are correct?

    But on an issue like this...where clearly newer people come in fairly often and do t read all of the previous posts about the issue (let's be honest the majority of people don't use the search function and skip the majority of threads to post their own point and respond to posts thereafter or directed at them) you decide to have a go at somebody who is reiterating their point to try and get those who do not understand all of the factors (from their point of view, just like with dooku) to "see the light" so to speak.

    I see people every day suggesting stuff like mace windu and asajj to counter Poe...like what? They clearly have not read anything or ever tried to use mace or asajj to counter Poe and yet are weighing in that it's all ok because counters exist...so then I often see the same people try to correct them, that it will not work at higher level, explain to them the details (which are often listed multiple times in the thread they are posting in) of why that is not the case.

    this is a public forum. New people come here every day and most don't visit all that often, only when they have a problem or issue. It is standard practice to reiterate the points when new people show up to the talk and apparently have less understanding of the game or the current issue at hand and all its various mechanics than you...just like with dooku.

    Now from the look of the forums, the side that thinks Poe is balanced is a lot smaller than the side that thinks he is an issue (whether him or because of how he exacerbates the current dps 1turn meta)...just like the volume of people who think dooku is fine appears to be much bigger than the ones who think he is an issue...so what a small number of active people are reiterating the same popular points forum regulars have seen for weeks to those who apparently do not know or understand them...how is this an issue?

    Do you really think balance should not be discussed on game forums? Seriously go and find me a game forum that has no discussions on balance and If you can you will see a very dead forum or an entirely off topic one (at which point why are you on a game forum?).
    And if you think people should not reiterate their points when trying to make other people understand the issue of lack thereof that they see...where were you with all those people saying dooku is not a problem ???
    Or is it just because you thought those dooku people are right and anti Poe people are wrong...because right now you are likely the minority on these forums, just like those who think dooku is op are the minority on these forums, simply your bias leads you to have a go at the party you view as wrong as whiners just repeating themselves every time somebody new challenges their position...
    Think about that.
  • Blam
    113 posts Member
    EA_Jesse wrote: »
    Greetings heroes,

    We wanted to take a few moments to talk to you about a very hot topic here on the forums, Poe Dameron.

    There have been numerous posts about this character and how our recent changes aren’t enough and that he will still be “OP”. We are reading each and every one of your posts, so know that you are being heard.

    As you saw in the update notes, we are making some balance changes to Poe Dameron as a first step. We will continue to monitor how Poe performs in squads after the update, and if needed we will make additional changes. We’re taking an approach of slowly adjusting characters if we feel they are too powerful instead of making changes that may be too drastic.

    Incremental changes is the correct way. Thank you!
  • Wispsi
    255 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Wispsi wrote: »
    The irony of coming into a stickied dev started post on Poe dameron to whine about people complaining Poe is too strong... Then making ad hominems focused on their posting habits and what they might be doing to the forums ahaha

    I giggled :)

    The post was to announce they nerfed and will be monitoring. To take a character that has just been made worst significantly (yes, 1 less Expose or two means one and maybe two chars alive, means about 15% less damage from supporting chars like IG-88, and other bad consequences), and more vulnerable to stuns (which go earlier), to complain that this has made things actually worst (there is a post with just a title like that), and directing at how CG has no clue...for me, it's insukting. The parch hasn't even been launched yet. I am sorry by extreme whining can get ocassional remarks about the poster, and I don't think any of those has been flaming or toxic.

    We had a char that required no nerfing nerfed. And the announcement that he was nerfed and is on the "endangered species" list, to then read for the 70th post the same iver and over in bold and in such terms is for me disrespecting. Not just of one person in particular, for for all that own this character, or don't own and like it. If you want to nerf nerf Sid and Phasma. They lead 78% of my top 50 Arena and are OP.

    Also, if you know the forum history, many here crying nerf (you know who you are) have many many post silencing people that proposed to nerf other characters in the past 3 mo, so.....

    As far as I am aware the post made about the Poe problem being worse after the patch was in relation to also being able to see people's teams in arena...am I mistaken? And well it is a possibility that it could make the problem worse, as the issue most people have with him has not been addressed in the slightest. But if i am not mistaken then you are being very misleading with what you have written.
    I like the approach but this game, like many others, has a serious balance problem. Thing is the way the characters are set up leads to a pretty much all Agro meta. High DPS characters , such as genossian soldier, should not have life or health as high as his is. If they hit like a truck they should take a hit like a princess . Darth Maul is a good example of this principle. To have a character that can do massive amounts of damage and still be able to take a beating pretty much throws the balance of the game off . So what you end up with is the current meta-, which is pretty much the same characters being used on every team because they're just the most powerful. I'm not saying that every character should be crated this way, I understand that abilities and such things also play a factor . But it still remains that there are certain characters that are too powerful and have not even been mentioned . Using genossian soldier again, he has an ability that gives him a high chance to do 50% more damage just on his basic attack besides having the assist and massive Hitpoints. Now you put in a few characters like this behind Poe which already cuts most of your teams health by 20%, takes away their turn meters, and protects the not so fragile cannons behind him and you have pretty much the current meta- because it is such a hard thing to defeat. I think that there is more than just Poe that needs to be balanced and that the dev team over at EA needs to take a long look at the current leader boards in their arena servers (and even allot of galactic war teams) to see how they should start to go about this. A balanced game should have an unpredictable outcome no matter which characters are being used on each team as well as having a variety of characters and different team makeups . That variety of choice of which characters to combine is what gives a game the longevity and fun that it needs to keep going and gain more player base . Having to run the same 5 to 10 characters every time just to not lose every game becomes very tedious and boring and can seriously cause a game to get dropped very easily.

    I completely agree that original problem is high speed, high HP, massive damage. Suppose IG-88...it's a great droid. It's squishy. Actually it may very well be the squishiest char. You could NEVER use him unless you can have a tank to make it last at least his first turn. Remive Poe, and you remove IG-88.

    Poe doesn't invalidate GS or any of the turn 7 and turn 8 gorillas with bazukas. It creates the possibility of dealing with them. that gorilla chars can also use Poe well, that's no reason to destroy the char that creates some counter to high speed, damange and HP in one combo.

    So you think eliminating Poe would solve or make GS-like squads even more prevalent?

    I cannot find anybody who said he needs to be eliminated or nerfed into the ground or have the fast taunt playstyle removed...

    He can be brought back into line without being destroyed. His playstyle or taunting first and protecting squishies can still be completely viable after a nerf to his 100% guaranteed turn meter reduction...

    also most people accusing for Poe nerf appear to think that the meta of huge dps is not a good one, would prefer that changed. But having super high damage meta whilst at the same time having a tank that allows your whole team to take a turn before the enemy is a bit unreasonable. As most who have argued the case for Poe to be nerfed, they would prefer huge sweeping adjustments to make games last past the first turn, but that is far less likely than toning down the guy who gives overwhelming advantage to his team in such a meta whilst getting to go first...either is bearable, both together is just stupid.
  • Dmg problem.
    Poe problem.

    Two things which have a resounding presence in a lot of these posts. Poe allows and even propels the dmg problem. Remove Poe and the dmg issue still remains. So, we then have part of the root of the issue, damage.

    Arena battles are the only place anyone has these issues as meta doesn't matter outside this area. Why not reduce dmg and adjust healing as you see fit of everyone in Arenas and adjust from there? One shot killing ppl should not happen unless under very specific circumstances( like ig-88 with Boba leader buff + 5x dot buff + offense up + expose). These types of things should be rare and difficult to pull off. Having multiple Heroes able to one shot other heroes within the first round negates the use of the majority of heroes within this setting as well as strategies involving them. Early in the game when in the 40-50lvl range battles would last into the 4th-6th rounds. Those battles were so much more enjoyable than the 1-2/1-3 round battles we have now. Yes, maybe that was "cuz low lvl". Regardless of that, if battles would last longer more variety in heroes would be present and viable within this game type.

    Damage is the underlying issue. Changing how much damage is done in arena will prevent nerfs of any kind of any characters. That's something I think everyone can get on board with. Those who want nerfs and those who want heroes to stay the same will both get what they want. In addition more viable builds would hopefully surface and shake things up a bit.
  • AdamW
    692 posts Member
    CronozNL wrote: »
    Poe is fine after he gets "changed"


    BLASPHEMY!!!

    I do this daily as well, wish everyone else would figure out how to beat him and stop whining. Some people seem to spend more time on the forums than actually playing the game to improve lol.
  • LoveLoveRice
    182 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Yah Poe gets nerfed and Speed teams rise, but at least that allows people to build defensive teams. I made this tonight in regards to this thread to show how easy it is to win, when your POE goes first.

    No heals and it wasn't even a challenge.


  • Lokai
    379 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    If you have the right team they just made poe not a factor. Poe goes first taunts you remove taunt. Ok he does not damage and now his expose hits half the time and he cant even resist healing immunity anymore. Time to switch to Chewbacca.

    think I threw up a little bit.....did you seriously just imply that cheebacca is better then poe? seriously? poes power has so little to do with his ability to direct fire his direction. it literally is ALL his turn meter reduction in conjuction with the STUPID high damage of certain units even when unbuffed. talk all the trash you want poes expose and actual taunt mechanic are MEANINGLESS. if he goes first even if not a single opponent is exposed, even if his taunt is stripped he has already brought about the decimation of the opponents team as all the glass cannons suddenly get to go ahead of anyone that may have been able to help focus them down. you clowns are only complaining because you don't want your iwin button nerfed. I have poe, but only because If I don't have my own nuke I have little chance of beating the opponents nuke. If you have any kinds of good glass cannon units you add poe and it becomes iwin and the only, GENERALLY, chance someone has is if the opponenets poe either doesn't go first OR in extremely **** situations which I've seen a couple times the AI Does NOT taunt with poe.

    the game should NEVER come down to a single stinking tune that anyone has to have to be competivite. Poe and other MANDATORY units totally kill any kinds of team variety.

    too tired/sick to type without numerous mistakes....I don't feel like fixing my grammatical/spelling errors....live with it :(
  • Patch notes say that poe is a high risk high gain character. But I can not see him that way... Make a 50% chance to reduce enemies team turn meter and a 50% chance to reduce own team turn meter and you will have your risk character.

    It could be good this way to be lucky and defeat a better team than yours.

    He will still be op.
  • Lokai
    379 posts Member
    If you have the right team they just made poe not a factor. Poe goes first taunts you remove taunt. Ok he does not damage and now his expose hits half the time and he cant even resist healing immunity anymore. Time to switch to Chewbacca.

    I find it hilarious that there are quite a few references to "the right team" in connection to "DEALING WITH POE" but no one actually says what their magic sauce is.....wanna know why? because the magic sauce without some extreme RNG is to have your own poe and then its essentially 50/50.....instead of stacked against you. there are teams that with stun/ability block have a CHANCE albeit not that great of preventing poe from getting his taunt off first turn, but that's just it....it's a CHANCE. I'll say this again poe is a guaranteed thing if he doesn't get stunned or ability blocked he just plain happens. so people can try to form teams that can manage to have a CHANCE to possibly stun/block poe. so you have to form a team targeting one single character to block/stun him.......how much of your team is dedicated to this sole task that can actually go before poe? oh guess what they aren't the glass cannons you need to deal with the rest of poe's entourage.
  • Preemo_Magin
    1826 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    @Wispsi I am not sure if you are talking to someone in particular or in general.

    This is the learning curve I had about the game, and what I think now. I know Each story may be different but maybe it explains a bit how opinions may change, like in the Dooku example tou mention.

    Dec 21: I login and see this Poe. i really am apathic. Not excited byt hey, it's free.

    Jan 2: Face a high level Phasma. Learn that Android got her instead of iOS Poe. Become upset. I remember the Android Only promotion for New Year and become even more upset. Did that Phasma add 5 assists, lowed me down, and also advance a full turn for enemy in lapse of three complete turns? I hate Poe.

    Jan 4: I look at the Poe character and remember how I disn't relate to the guy in the movie.

    Jan 5: Some high end guy posts Poe is a must have and to start. I laugh!

    Jan 6: Learn anout cap lift. Face a few Poe teams. Hey I dislike the guy even more. He goes in and taunts and protects QGJ, Leia and FOTP and anyone. Mist enemy chars at this time ALREADY Went BEFORE most of my players anyway, so not a huge deal. I slot Luminara back and all is semi-fine.

    Jan 12: Some players have Poe 7* and very fast teams. I start to slip in Arena to 12-15. New names appear on top 50. A lot of new names. Cap leveled most players.

    Jan 13: I find the TeamInstinct Poe thread about him becoming turn 8 with his new gear at level 70 cap. Is this really an issue?

    Jan 14: cap lifted. At last I can use my XP. I am still ranking top 5 most often and as much as I want.

    Jan 19: I notice the huge dmg vs HP pool. The meta has changed. My healers don't work fast and deep enough. Any char can get one shot. Most top Arena is turn 7-8. Poe makes it worst.

    Jan 21: I enter a fight vs Poe and Droids. I had a traditional Sid, Lumi, Talia, IG-88 and 4* FOTP. I fire Sid, and 8 seconds later only my FOTP is alive with 5% HP... So angry! I dodn't get a turn!

    I come to forum and whine and rant.

    Jan 22: I keep posting and learning hiw to counter. I start farming Poe. I start to max star my droid team. I start to accelerate my FOTP. I accelerate my Rey farming.

    Jan 25: My Poe is 4* and it is the first fight with my Droids that I can win. IG-88 and FOTP can survive to attack once.

    Jan 28: Poe at 5* and max speed...I get pushed to Arena Top 55...embarrasing. Is my Poe working? I start to notice counters.

    Jan 30: I try a new setup. i stay at around 40. Poe enabkes things. I notice how meta is extreme damage and how my Poe can easily die before a turn.

    Feb 1: I notice how a team without Poe wins a battle 5-0 vs me. QGJ went right after Poe and dispelled and buffed entire team. Sid did 4 crits for 5k+ each. Rey had killed IG-88 first turn.

    Feb 2: I learn more counters. And learn all the turn 7 chars that can go before him. I realize the extreme assist teams power. I can easily have 2 chars dead before Poe taunts.

    Feb 3: release notes published. Poe nerfed and in the endangered spieces list. I think about the meta withoit Poe.

    As I think abiut the meta without Poe, thebgame becomes a push for turn 7, with occasional turn 8s. By now, even FOTP is nothing without some protection. His HP at 7 is fixed. His triple tap gone. His double tap to 45%. He is turn 9. I realize how unusable it is. It's all turn 7-8 with assists, sometimes with two counter or 3 tanky AoEs. Without Poe's speed any turn 9 is very risky. A turn 10 seems to move so slow it's not worth considering. Any glass tank will be dead during turns 7 and 8. Top 20 arena would be Rey, QGJ, Sid, GS, Dooku or variants of this...dull picture for creativity in Arena.

    SPEED HIGH DMG META

    It is progressively that I realice Poe makes the turn meter war more noticeable. Against very fast teams (full turn 8 and 7) Poe is "optional". If Poe taunts a little too late you already lost. Turn 9-10 char viavility depend on Poe. Poe helps more those using chars at turn 9-10 because thise with heavy turn 7-8 already don't need it - but they can still use it.

    For the slower team, if Poe taunts last, it's doom 90% of the time. If Poe goes first, you have a chance. This is accepted by most high end teams posters. They have called this as example of Poe counters even without Poe. There are many many of these posts by credible players. These teams can win 70% against any Poe team.

    ----

    POE GONE

    Now remove Poe. Who wins? These teams that already destroy any Poe based team. Why? The huge Dmg/HP currently in the gane is real. Chars are one shot regardless of Poe. Having fast chars that do huge damage turn 7 and 8 almost always wins.

    You may esasily have 3 chars dead if you team doesn't have those same chars...if your team is more turn 9+ inclined. The other combos include FOO variants that also affect turns and do huge initial damage, still, these are turn 7-8 squads.

    A Poe that is turn 8 with maybe 10 other chars in the game means Poe going first is highly dependant on RNG. You can't just count on that. But it can happen and you can win. If Poe gets slowed down to turn 9, it becomes useless...the Droids, FOTP and many many many other interesting chars are all turn 9+. Actually, +80% of chars are! If he taunts at turn 9 you already list vs a turn 7-8 teams. Even if enemy has 4 at turn 7-8 and Poe, they STILL BEBEFIT A LOT. When they finish killing 1-3 of your chars, right then they maybget a Poe taunt. NOT NICE. If Poe dissapears, they still anihilate you.

    YOU DON'T HAVE/WANT POE

    Now, suppose you have a turn 9+ team (yeah you can have 1-2 in turns 7-8, but let's say it's not the heavy esrly on assist idea of Gs and QGJ...and tou DISLIKE POE A LOT and this do not have him. And the enemy has a very hard hitting fast team with 4 turn 7-8 heavy hitters (with assists probably)...You'll see your 1-3 of tour team team decimated or 10% HP, and in front of your eyes will be a Poe which has taunted and 4 of your chars are now exposed. Tou know it's the end. How do you deal with that? It gets a bit worst (but NOT MUCH because they already have most all turn 7-8 if their Poe goes first of all turn 8 guys).

    Can you not hate that guy? Yes.

    But suppose Poe is slowed down 1 in Spped and goes to turn 9. Tou still not using Poe...now, your situation has improved very little. You may be 3 to 5 very easily. Either their Poe goes first at turn 9 and you are exactly as bad as if he Was turn 8, or maybe you have 1 or if very lucky two chars (remember you lost 2 or more chars already) go now...assuming you have all chars 9...if you are very very luckly you kill 2 guys, then their Poe taunts and exposes. And then it's enemy turn again - best case for you 3 vs 3 with you exposed and enemy behind Poe. Who has the edge? You still lose.

    Ok.

    Now imagine his turn meter is eliminated...how do things change? If henis still turn 8, these teams don't benefit that much. In this case they'd harry up Rey 7 to replace their IG-88 or FOTP. If they wherenusing any turn 9 char at all. You don't use Poe, so for you is neutral vs these teams. Now supoose Poe has no turn meter, and is turn 9...tou are not much better either...they are still behind a taunt, and they still most likely will get the second turn first. Yeah, unless toubare manipulating meter with FOO esrly on. But that creates the same problem Poe is supposed to have - so we nerf FOO too? And still won't solve the problem.

    So regardless of Poe, the complete advantage is the battle on turns 7-8 and that largely decides the outcome. Their Poe (if they have one - and don't need one) will be extremely visible as at your first turn, you see a taunter, exposes and a grim outlook)...the reality is Poe isn't making that huge difference.

    YOU DO HAVE POE

    Now suppose you have Poe max speed. Now, EVEN if the enemy is those amazing turn 7-8 teams, you still have a chance. You can do the "high-risk high-reward" that @EA_Jesse mentions. If your Poe goes first, your turn 10-9 chars have a chance. This can dissapear by him getting killed right after he taunts, by destroying him or dispelling. But the rest of your team is safe generally, and in many cases you'll get to kill 1-2 at the same time. Your turn 10-9 chars will RNG with their turn 8 high damage pkus assist chars. The outcome is more even than without Poe. Nownif they also use Poe, many times they counter you luck esrly on...but hey, they chars and your chars are protectrd tona larger extent Turn 1, and the best chars synergies can still win. If they don't have Poe, they still can crush you.

    They don't really need Poe.

    Now, if Poe goes to turn 9, it becomes totally useless for all these players. And the only way forward is bring Gs, Rey, etc. To fight as equals (and with very similar setups) on turns 7-8. So by making Poe slower, they Speed meta team isn't affected, but for anyone not using those 10 chars recomended as the Speed high damage meta, you are essentially toast.

    Now let's just go to removing time meter manipulation (but leaving turn 8). The enemy has no Poe? You are far worst now, as your chars will have to wait until entire enemy team goes. Your Poe is dead in two shots (or one shot eith a power assist) and the other 4 chars just downed 1 or 2 additional toons, and you may be suffering many detrimental effects already.... So how is this nice?

    Now the THIRD SCENARIO...

    YOU DON'T HAVE POE AND ENEMY HAS BUT ISN'T FULL TURN 7-8

    Imagine you have a mix of turn 7-10 chars. They are not geared as massive damage all hugher speed. Enemy is turn 7-8 very high damage - tou lose (regardless of Poe). And now, imagine a player that has higher damage mix with more chars in turn 9-10...Droid teams come here for example but there are many variants. Now tou have a dissavantage. If their Poe taunts first, their turn 9-10 may all come before you...even of 3 come, the Expose really weakens you too much before you take a turn. This is what I faced originally, and that made me angry. If you are HERE, you want Poe nerfed. You don't want to use it, you don't want to build a high speed huge damage team (which is very cookie cutter - fee chars can do that...if you wanted this, Poe would not affect you at all anyway!)....and you don't want to lose vs any Poe team...but high speed teams many times have him - not needed but why not? The ones with speed like yours...and they have an edge. So you look at this and see three options:

    - Get frustrated and want Poe mega-nerfed
    - Give in and get Poe (which a few say ...hey, if I need him to be competitive then itnis OP and is boring - but remember, if Poe gets nerfed to death tou'll only enjoy the gane two weeks...after that everyone with aspirarions to improve in Arena will jump into the absolute turn 7-8 war and you WILL STILL LOSE all the time. And at this point you'll become very vocal about nerfing Rey, GS, QGJ, etc.). You will not see an improvement. It will get even more cookie cutter everywhere.
    - Lastly, go for the safe solution: the cookie cutter high speed high damage option. Zero risk. Especially since Poemis being "monitored" and may "die like Barris".

    Probably the longest post ever in this forum...but what All this means is:

    It's valid to want Poe nerfed. If you don't want him. Don't want to do a high speed cookie cutter team, this appears as just a logical fix. Yet, it won't solve any of the problems. The enemies you could beat (those relatively slow) will have to move to high soeed turn 7-8 teams with high damage and assist. Pretty soon itnwill be even more boring!

    Yet, when you advocate and advocate for a nerf (which won't help you mich nor for long and will make things worst in how ai described it by them moving to all high speed high dmg), you are destroying EVERYONE's little chance to compete without needing to absolutely gonfor Cookie Cutter extreme high speed/dmg teams. You are accelerating the High damage turn 7-8 metanwith very lottle chars, your turn 9-10 chars will jot win either and toubwill not be very satisfied either and will need more serious nerfs.

    Butnhaventou though may DO trying out apoe? It's a kit tocallow slower teams to challe the current very high speed meta....

    THE NERF

    The current nerf helps everyone that either does jotnhave Poe and is slow as it helps High end High speed teams make slower compos even less sucessful. But not to an extent to cause all that I described to ruin him and enter the era of All-Hig-Speed turn 7-8s.

    You can stun much more reliably. And you can be sucessful as you now have 1
    Expose vs 2-4.... While it makes it harder t nuse Poe succesfully, it really helps primarily rhose that are slower Nd do not want Poe.

    Until high speed high damage and assists are fixed, no amount of nerfing will bring more diversity. Instead of having to farm Poe for "when needed).... you'll have to either lose vs hoards of high speed plus dmg chars (as everyone goes this route). And that doesn't add variety or justice to the game.

    Nerfing Poe will accomplish little. Poe the pilar that makes a lot of chars usable.... Refusing to get him will make you to need the cookie cutter high speed elite team to stay competitive. BUT....if you take this route. Because if you are sucessful in getting him nerfed, you'd currently burn your primary option to still have char variety, allow tou to counter lwer teams, and a chance to win ba high speed meta. If you refuse and are building the turn 7-8 dream team, well nerfing doesn't give you much either. If you build rhis, Poemis of little concern.

    Summary: nerfing Poe won't fix your problems, but it may very liky make you problems worst. it won't make you more competitive, ...I will force you to play the cookie cutter meta team of very high speed...even more boring.

    Post edited by Preemo_Magin on
  • Everyone saying that "Poe will still be really strong [after the proposed nerf]" makes me giggle. Poe is neither strong, nor heavily tanky as he is right now. What he is, is fast. In addition to that he does a two-fold effect with his first action: he "buys" you time to make consecutive first-round actions with units that truly are strong.

    Let's be honest, Poe sure as helen isn't the one dishing out all the damage and if an opposing team has even a few of their damage-dealers still alive, you can bet your asterisks he isn't going to outlive the duration of his taunt (unless they all have debuffs attached to their attacks, but still unlikely).

    Game needs balancing in the way of the heavy damage-dealing characters (or how "tanks" are supposed to actually mitigate the 14k+ single-action damage values the "usual suspects" are currently dishing out) with respect to their speed values. Make "defense up" buffs a %-value damage reduction instead of "%-modifier of a minuscule value that mitigates final damage results" or something...
  • Preemo_Magin
    1826 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    AdamW wrote: »
    CronozNL wrote: »
    Poe is fine after he gets "changed"


    BLASPHEMY!!!

    I do this daily as well, wish everyone else would figure out how to beat him and stop whining. Some people seem to spend more time on the forums than actually playing the game to improve lol.

    You both have a slow team. He has a turn 9 heavy damage team. You don't. He wins. If Poe didn't exist you think you'd have a chance to win. Most likely, you'd win. But that won't happen. That player would very fast have to play the cookie cutter turn 7-8 heavy damage team. And after he does you'd be either posting screens about GS or QGJ...or rushing to have the same fast high dmg team. They reason that your enemy has Poe is NOT to crush you...it's because that turn 9 has a chance to take on the extrme cookie cutter high speed high damage Rey, GS, QGJ kind of meta speed team that rule arena.

    You could get Poe and still have anworking plan vs high damage and speed using your own chars (turns 7-10). Your refusal to have Poe, makes you want to have Poe further nerfed - but he is the only thing enabling you to use play things that aren't the High speed extreme damage elite meta ...a boring meta with extremely limited options and again...very rng based.

    If CG could lower damage, or increase, or increase defense, or randomize speed more...all this Poe posts would vanish. Their apoe goes first? You still eould have 5 or 4 chars with healing being viable and the enemy with one char (Poe) that is little threat.

    It still is understandable you want the nerf. It really is. It just won't play out like you think it would is what I believe...

    Poe is an enabler for turn 10-9 chars vs high speed teams. If dmg/HP rationisn't fixed, and Poe nerfed, things will be much worst. But if dmg/HP is fixed, Poe as is...is no threat to you. In the meantime, it sucks that it means that if two teams are slow, or you team is slow, you kindnof need Poe. And if youbdespise the guy a bit, you'd naturally want more reft - racing us to uktra speed/damage meta which is limited and boring.
  • I'm not going to quote that preemo too long. In my post it was not about actual Poe balance. It was just saying that attacking people as whiners etc for reiterating their fully believed in points about game balance on a game forum, is being very biased, as you do not attack people who do similar posting style on subjects you believe to be correct. Not only that put having a go at them for asking for a small nerf to one character whilst the meta we have stays as it is instead of demanding a full meta change affecting all of the characters...after they have already stated multiple times they agree damage assist is the main problem...
    Well I don't know, it was not directed at you exactly, just trying to explain my first 2 sentence post...it's gone too far, I guess it makes no difference to me if you understand my point, I will stop clogging up space with posts not on Poe balancing.
  • Wispsi wrote: »
    I'm not going to quote that preemo too long. In my post it was not about actual Poe balance. It was just saying that attacking people as whiners etc for reiterating their fully believed in points about game balance on a game forum, is being very biased, as you do not attack people who do similar posting style on subjects you believe to be correct. Not only that put having a go at them for asking for a small nerf to one character whilst the meta we have stays as it is instead of demanding a full meta change affecting all of the characters...after they have already stated multiple times they agree damage assist is the main problem...
    Well I don't know, it was not directed at you exactly, just trying to explain my first 2 sentence post...it's gone too far, I guess it makes no difference to me if you understand my point, I will stop clogging up space with posts not on Poe balancing.

    I agree 100%. I think there may still be something else in those posts, in the attitude or something that makes people click (including me). But they are totally ok still. Anyway, my previous post has a lot of typos...big fingers small keyboard.

  • Zekex
    474 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Well said, preemo_magin. I fully agree on all points that turn 7-8 high dps toons and poe are a huge problem now. The future looks very bleak for me, since I am very unwilling to spend thousands of dollars on chromium packs/refills/refreshes for rey/leia/dooku/geo/poe/qgj/foo etc.. Even if poe had turn reduction removed,hp buffed, high speed dps toons are still going to be a problem. Any of you top players have any suggestions on how to rectify the problem without nerfing damage to the point where there are no counters for super tanky counter attackers?

    Feel free to share,I'm starting to lose interest in this game if nothing changes.
  • Triqui
    2790 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Wispsi wrote: »
    "Poe dameron balancing thread" -completely unlocked, unlike other threads that are announcements/messages and locked...

    "We are reading every post"

    Uh huh...

    People state the same thing they previously have because other people come in and state the same opposing thing they already have.

    When new people come to the forums saying "dooku is op"(and trust me below level 40 that guy isna true monster, nobody does the damage to burst him down, not even remotely close people attack for slithers of health at that level and he hits harder than most other 3* characters, he can literally solo 3 people attacking him at equal level and not because he starts at 3*) the same old people jump in and reiterate just how not op he is later on and how top players have no issues with him...and everybody agrees with them!!

    Pretty much THIS.
    I also write dozes of posts telling people why Dooku of Sid are not OP and warrant no nerf. I have also writen a few times that Barris need a healing buff, because she hits for much less than Lumi get she heals for less too.

    The " nerf crowd", as often derogatory named, do not exist. There is no decreto agenda to nerf everybody. There is, though, a group of people who believe the current balance of the game needs tweaking, and some of them think that Poe is a focal point for that. And yes, a couple of guys, myself included, are more vocal about it. But those who believe we are alone are being victim of their own confirmation bias. Dozens of different posters have agreed in this thread (just like dozens haven't). Maybe they slip through awareness, but they exist. It is not an imaginary problemas in the mind of a few. The devs also said once that they'll look at data, and use fubdsmentally that for nerfs (and they data show Barris needed a nerf, btw).

    I advocate for Poe needing a rebalance. No, scratch that: I advocate for elimination of 143 speed turn control: changing the length of taunt, tenacity, hp, or expose, do not solve the time walk problem, and other chars are waiting to tske Poe's mangle, like First Order Officer. Sole people claim that those who advocate for nerfs do it because they dont have the char and lose to them. The irony: I play Droids. The living Time Walk is a natural fit for my team. I dont play Dooku or Sid, yet I spend time daily defending them from people who want to nerf them.

    It is not a secret agenda. It is a genuine concern about the viability of different strategies. If the game revolves about a single valid strategy, I will roll with the punches and use it, but it will be sad to have just one vslid strategy.


    That said, everything possible has already been said. The devs took a decision, and are going to properly cillect data once the change go live. We should stop (both sides) in the meanwhile, and wait until they do. I expect them to unload a huge amount of number crunched stuff on is to support their future decision, whatever it will be.
  • Triqui
    2790 posts Member
    Zekex wrote: »
    Any of you top players have any suggestions on how to rectify the problem without nerfing damage to the point where there are no counters for super tanky counter attackers?
    What about nerfing damage just slightly les than that point?
This discussion has been closed.