Poe Dameron balancing

Replies

  • obiwan1011 wrote: »
    He does little damage.

    He has a 40% chance to inflict Offense Down for 2 turns and its chance is doubled when the target is suffering any negative effect (which is very likely with Sid being so prevalent). In case you don't realise, that's 50% reduction in damage output. Rey who can dish out 10k+ damage is now only delivering 5k+ and suddenly doesn't look too scary. In case you forgot, 40% is the same percentage as Dooku stunning someone with his Lightning. What else more do you want? Hit like a FOTP?
    If he taunts last at turn 8 you likely lost your glass canon.

    No other tank goes at turn 8. Plus, what you stated - i.e. "you likely lost your glass cannon" is exactly what makes Poe peerless and breaks the game
    Or he is ine shot and then behind him your team is all squishies...high risk, low rewards there!

    Except for the few with very high hp, most heroes are no exception to this one shot kill (which, btw is the biggest problem in this game). So where exactly is this high risk part that is only confined to Poe?
    Or he taunts first and immediately after the enemy QGJ dispells his taunt and does the equivalent of what a full dedicated char (Poogle) would do and without using a dedicating turn....buff the entire enemy offensive. And he also damages Poe...which after that becomes a useless char that does 2.5k damage and nothing more.

    1. That is only possible if QGJ has survived waves of your glass cannon attacks. Based on what you are saying, I am sure you are smart enough to see the risk and eliminate him first
    2. That is only possible if QGJ is successful in dispelling his taunt. Even with the expected re-balancing of his tenacity, Poe still has the highest value
    3. Even if the taunt is dispelled, the damage is already done as your team has already made their turns, thank you very much
    4. So is Han. If his taunt is dispelled, he is even more useless than Poe who can at least can inflict Offense Down and self heal by resisting negative effects
    A high risk high reward character is Sid. And he is almost impossible to stun due to verybhigh resistance. He prevents heals. Resists all Jedi's. Has the best leadership in the entire game based on number of timesnused. He is high reward. And also carries zero risk. It always does what it does early on and so reliably, and even if it's not the greatest crit ever, he is still bringing the best Leadership after (and if) he dies.

    Yes, Sid is very powerful, but has low hp. Plus, no matter what he can do, he does not allow your team to go first over the other team.

    Ok, all are very good points! Also, thanks for engaging with us at the other side arguing. I appreciate it.

    Any opinion on making turn meter reduction resistable? Another option I had though is (although I think it kills the skill a bit as Poe lifespan is extremely short life span, is make the turn meter reduction with the expose, and the taunt a separate skill.

    @obiwan1011 Thanks for vindicating my post so clearly to @Preemo_Magin.

    @

    If you don't know that then it's obvious you want him nerfed. You don't understand him at all. I hope this examples are educational. If not, then ...I can give a horse water, but only it can drink it.

    So @Preemo_Magin you diss my point and get convinced by a subsequent supporting post in a jiffy. You say I don't understand him? Please be consistent.

    I want him nerfed? Please read carefully. I want an explanation why Poe's description seemingly does not fit his capabilities NOT a nerf.

    (Yes this is cliche) I am already building a squad to beat Poe. It's based on TM which people here have started mentioning is gonna be the next big thing.

    I might be wrong eventually but please don't insult my intelligence. I apologize my initial post was a little harsh but I appreciate a civil discussion; not ad hominems.
  • Phasma, FOO, (and FOST) are First Order, and turn meter seems to be more of a FO thing rather than resistance. FO does the Advantage synergy with a minor in meter manipulation (and in a similar theme cd reset on Kylo and double attack on pilot, all about time). Resistance is pretty heavy into Expose with a minor in Foresight.

    Not that the themes should effect game balancing, but when possible might as well make the themes coherent if you're going to make them at all. Also completely disregarding any sort of theme, Phasma may not be absolutely OP as is, but if she acted first she certainly would be. Just because it fits a theme doesnt mean its OK. The dev team is going to have to constantly watch speed and turn meter manipulation as the level caps raise and new character with those mechanics are introduced, as it can be game breaking.
  • I don't get why some people says FOO will be a problem. His TMR only affects one opponent toon, and it isn't guaranteed. Yes, it can give your others toons 15% TM, but that will only make your slowest characters, maybe, catch up with your opponents turn 7 toons, in which case the RNG will do his job.
    Am I missing something?
  • obiwan1011 wrote: »
    He does little damage.

    He has a 40% chance to inflict Offense Down for 2 turns and its chance is doubled when the target is suffering any negative effect (which is very likely with Sid being so prevalent). In case you don't realise, that's 50% reduction in damage output. Rey who can dish out 10k+ damage is now only delivering 5k+ and suddenly doesn't look too scary. In case you forgot, 40% is the same percentage as Dooku stunning someone with his Lightning. What else more do you want? Hit like a FOTP?
    If he taunts last at turn 8 you likely lost your glass canon.

    No other tank goes at turn 8. Plus, what you stated - i.e. "you likely lost your glass cannon" is exactly what makes Poe peerless and breaks the game
    Or he is ine shot and then behind him your team is all squishies...high risk, low rewards there!

    Except for the few with very high hp, most heroes are no exception to this one shot kill (which, btw is the biggest problem in this game). So where exactly is this high risk part that is only confined to Poe?
    Or he taunts first and immediately after the enemy QGJ dispells his taunt and does the equivalent of what a full dedicated char (Poogle) would do and without using a dedicating turn....buff the entire enemy offensive. And he also damages Poe...which after that becomes a useless char that does 2.5k damage and nothing more.

    1. That is only possible if QGJ has survived waves of your glass cannon attacks. Based on what you are saying, I am sure you are smart enough to see the risk and eliminate him first
    2. That is only possible if QGJ is successful in dispelling his taunt. Even with the expected re-balancing of his tenacity, Poe still has the highest value
    3. Even if the taunt is dispelled, the damage is already done as your team has already made their turns, thank you very much
    4. So is Han. If his taunt is dispelled, he is even more useless than Poe who can at least can inflict Offense Down and self heal by resisting negative effects
    A high risk high reward character is Sid. And he is almost impossible to stun due to verybhigh resistance. He prevents heals. Resists all Jedi's. Has the best leadership in the entire game based on number of timesnused. He is high reward. And also carries zero risk. It always does what it does early on and so reliably, and even if it's not the greatest crit ever, he is still bringing the best Leadership after (and if) he dies.

    Yes, Sid is very powerful, but has low hp. Plus, no matter what he can do, he does not allow your team to go first over the other team.

    Ok, all are very good points! Also, thanks for engaging with us at the other side arguing. I appreciate it.

    Any opinion on making turn meter reduction resistable? Another option I had though is (although I think it kills the skill a bit as Poe lifespan is extremely short life span, is make the turn meter reduction with the expose, and the taunt a separate skill.

    @obiwan1011 Thanks for vindicating my post so clearly to @Preemo_Magin.

    @

    If you don't know that then it's obvious you want him nerfed. You don't understand him at all. I hope this examples are educational. If not, then ...I can give a horse water, but only it can drink it.

    So @Preemo_Magin you diss my point and get convinced by a subsequent supporting post in a jiffy. You say I don't understand him? Please be consistent.

    I want him nerfed? Please read carefully. I want an explanation why Poe's description seemingly does not fit his capabilities NOT a nerf.

    (Yes this is cliche) I am already building a squad to beat Poe. It's based on TM which people here have started mentioning is gonna be the next big thing.

    I might be wrong eventually but please don't insult my intelligence. I apologize my initial post was a little harsh but I appreciate a civil discussion; not ad hominems.

    Yes, it was a little harsh. I see a bit more the point. He also doesn't focus on the "request to nerf" but in the way it can do too many things at once.

    All he said is true. QGJ needs to be alive? Check. Dispell needs to work. Check.

    Most often he is alive and it works. But many times not. Maybe Poe was stunned already with Dooku? Maybe Rey killed him? Or Maybe Poe taunted and is exposed and your Ig-88 kills her. Or Rey one shots him? He essentially says QGJ against Poe is a lottery.

    If he gets dispelled, yeah, if your team is still alive by turn 2, Poe can attack a high damage and if it procs reduce damage. If it procs.

    My post is more about saying, I see how it brings too much. How to make the char worst now is delicate. It's not mandatory to make it worst. But now I see maybe it can be nerfed in ways thatbdo not invalidate it's core. When people say eliminate turn meter or push to 8, this is where it starts to change the char value very rapidly.

    I also agree with him 100% that the ither tanks are rather useless. It's not that Poe steals their show. It's just a large gap. I think Tanks should be buffed. They are not adding much now besides Poe which adds a lot.

    I even shared ideas how to nerf. Let me make a summary of what I heard. I may forget some...categories are my invention...

    Core complainers
    1) Move to 142 speed.
    2) Remove time meter
    3) Both

    Mid ground
    1) Turn meter resistable
    2) Separate taunt and turn meter into two skills
    3) eliminate expose

    Light
    1) Reduce expose and tenacity
    2) Monitor more before change
    3) change turn meter into 1-turn Speed down

    External
    1) Create counter char (light there are anti-Jedis)
    2) Fix meta (high damage/HP). Consensus is here. But it's a too broad change. This oncludes buff HP globally a bit. Make defense a %.
    3) Learn to counter him

    I really enjoy it more when we argue very specific problems it creates without agendas, which means accepting when the other makes a very good point. And if applicable vice-versa. Thanks.
  • Triqui
    2790 posts Member
    G
    Triqui wrote: »
    medetec wrote: »
    You could certainly reverse the current nerf if you were going to try something else. Incremental nerfs over huge swings is good design, but I'm personaly of the opinion that this nerf is hitting the wrong part of the kit.
    My point of view as well.

    I'm not very fond of reducing hid expose, to begin with. Expose is the leit motiv of Resistance units. Turn meter manipulation not so much.

    Why is it not the leit moriv? Phasma, FOO and Poe all affect turn meters. FOO in the movie act extremely fast too.

    Phasma and FOO are FO, not Resistance. FObis about adventage and Turn manipulation, Resistsnce is supposed to work around Expose. Except Poe
  • Triqui
    2790 posts Member
    Eleiem wrote: »
    I don't get why some people says FOO will be a problem. His TMR only affects one opponent toon, and it isn't guaranteed. Yes, it can give your others toons 15% TM, but that will only make your slowest characters, maybe, catch up with your opponents turn 7 toons, in which case the RNG will do his job.
    Am I missing something?

    He will Jump above t8 chars. Not so powerful as Poe, but still very powerful
  • I should clarify my statement earlier about raising Poe's health. No tank should be able to be single shotted. No match should last 30 seconds unless poorly executed. There is no strategy in a match that lasts 30 seconds. So my final statement here is Poe isnt the main problem contrary to popular belief. The problem is tanks arent being treated like tanks. A tank should be able to withstand a large amount of damage and protect other squad members with little to no health.
  • There is game imbalance between dps and health. Dps too easily kills toons. Either reduce dps or give health boosts to toons.

    This overly powerful dps provides Poe too much power with this turn manipulation. As the game is currently played, the first team that has Poe taunt wins. His turn meter manipulation prevents the other team from doing anything until 2-3 characters are dead.

    Poe wouldn't be an issue if toons had more health or dps wasn't able to massacre the other team before having an opportunity to utilize their team, too.
  • I like that they actually listen to what people have to say but if you "monitor" and make some changes to everyone, no character will be a good strong character and many will complain so there should be boundaries such as the locations where to farm, etc. and there should always be good characters, remember that EA
  • obiwan1011
    396 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Yes, it was a little harsh.

    Preemo_Magin,

    If I came across as harsh, I apologise. That was never my intention.
    .
    .
    .
    On a separate note, I would like to point out the following: CG (over) nerfed Barriss, claiming "she is currently outperforming nearly all healers in most situations."

    1. Isn't this the case with Poe as well? No other taunters come close to his speed and the complete package that he brings. Han can be very effective, but is slower and has less health. Chewie is well... no need to mention how sub-par he is, an undeserving treatment for such an iconic character. Stormtrooper? Meh...
    2. Poe's tier 1 speed and non-resistible 25% TM reduction are what makes him peerless, yet CG attempts to balance him by reducing his tenacity and chance to expose. That's like giving antibiotics to someone who is suffering from a cold virus. Wrong medicine
    3. Again, Poe is not the real problem. Too much damage with too much speed is the real issue. I really want to ask CG_John as to what is his view on this. Is this an "intended game design" - i.e. a fully-maxed out hero getting one-shot killed and matches often finishing in less than 2 minutes? It seems it will only get worse at level 80 as the damage increase will continue to outpace the health increase (and meaningless armor). I hope CG takes a look at what Aluxendr posted, an excellent suggestion on how to bring more balance to the overall game by adjusting damage, health and armor.

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/10590/a-comprehensive-guide-to-fixing-these-imbalances-behind-the-dashboard#latest
  • Preemo_Magin
    1826 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    I agree word by word.

    - Poe outperforms peers. -
    - Expose helps a bit only (did you know many people get bacterial infections due to virus weakening subject?)
    - The expose and lower tenacity can't harm but could help.
    Poe is not the problem, but makes it shine. Poe gone? Problem remains.
    - damage, the real problem, is out of control.

    Thought experiment 1
    all damage is tripled. Advancing two chars their 1st turn vs enemy means two enemy dead vs non Poe case of two allies dead. Is that not game defining?

    Thought experiment 2
    all damage is 1/3. the teo chars hardly kill one player. You need to be lucky and enemy can still respond And react and turn around.

    These all assume Poe goes first. This is not always the case. Just worst case scenario as a though experiment.

    Do you agree with conclusion?

    Another way to say the same is that damage scales with levels. HP scales at a lower rate. But turn meter improves exponentially in value as dmg/HP differ. So chars w/turn meter get buffed dynamically as dmg outpaces HP creating imbalances, but the root cause is dmg/HP disconnect. If you get rid of turn meter manipulation in every char things get simpler: a race for speed and games that last 20 secs. I've seen a game of equal powered teams last 14 secs with screenshots...

    Ps: Hey if I came as harsh (just in case) apologies too. I don't knownif I did or not. Without much context words can be miss read easily, or intent. Or we can get a bit carried by feelings. Thanks for your kind gesture.

  • Here's my issue...

    Any turn meter/speed change to Poe will immediately break him and he won't get used at all anymore.

    That means there is no longer a Tank for Arena, Period.

    So, now we go to a meta of all ultra high dps/speed toons and that's that.

    All the people who built more balanced teams around a logical trifecta (tank, healer, dps) are screwed and all the wallet warriors who have every high dps/speed toon can just keep on destroying.

    Until there are other tank options that can work in that role in Arena (and, no, there currently aren't due to their limitations), Poe is needed.

    Maybe stop thinking about it as 'Poe' but as 'tank'. The problem is a) damage in Arena is WAY TOO HIGH and b) all other tanks are garbage in Arena.

    If you want to break Poe, fine. Throw out everyone who leveled and geared Poe's month+ of game resources and time out. But, then what? Nothing changes.

    Poe alone is not the problem. So, many highdmg/speed toons is. If a toon is high damage, their health AND their speed should reflect that (aka, low health, slow speed). Right now, it's the opposite. They have high speed AND high damage (and the damage is far too great for the health pools in Arena).

    I say leave Poe alone and instead reduce damage in Arena 25% across the board (only when in Arena), maybe up to 40%. I strongly feel a simple across the board damage reduction would go miles farther and solve tons more problems. It certainly would immediately resolve entire teams being wiped out in one taunt.

    Edit: I've often pondered how things would be right now in this Tank/UltraDPS meta mentality had Bariss not been nerfed. I'm pretty sure things may have washed out a lot differently and for the better.

    Great opinion
  • Guys, just wanted to add the last few posts are absolute gems. Good to see the discussion coming around to the game meta. It was turning ugly and personal.

    Carry on!

    Btw, anti Poe here, actively gearing him up after the patch notes :lol:
  • Guys, just wanted to add the last few posts are absolute gems. Good to see the discussion coming around to the game meta. It was turning ugly and personal.

    Carry on!

    Btw, anti Poe here, actively gearing him up after the patch notes :lol:
  • medetec
    1571 posts Member
    Definitely on board with the damage / health / armor system being out of whack, and Poe may not be the root of the problem but even with a better system where battles went longer hes still arguably too strong (hard to say definitively without testing). On a coin flip win guaranteeing that your entire team goes first and is protected by a taunt when the enemy does get to move is still extremely strong even in a non 1-shot meta. Nerfing Poe now may seem like a bandaid fix, but it both helps immediately and its still a good patch even for when the system (hopefully) evolves down the line.
  • Noktarn
    401 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Nerfing poe won't change anything. I'll bet my Poe on it. Fast mega dps will still wreck you. What the game needs are other tanks that can intercept. Have you guys legit tried a 7 star royal guard? The mechanic is great- it forces taunt in the middle of THEIR turn when conditions are met. Simply look towards making the other tanks viable. Nerfing Poe will not change the status quo. Players will simply move on to the next thing. If anything nerf friggen phasmas and sids as 100% of players crutch on these guys. It involves just as much rng as Poe. Whose assists goes first?

    Devs just need to make royal guard super farmable and buff the intercept rules to be better. Make Han auto taunt when ally receives crit at like 50% chance. Storm trooper should taunt when struck by aoe attacks. Ect ect
  • Nerf Poe, nerf damage, none of that will change anything. There will always be a meta, and it will always be a coin flip at the top levels of gameplay.

    People complain about current metas for one simple reason. We hate to lose. Especially when playing against an AI. We expect to win every time, and when we don't, we do one of two things. Complain that it's unfair, use words like never and always, I should at least have a chance etc., and lobby to have that perceived injustice corrected. Or, we join the meta, increase our chance of winning to said coin flip, and go about our day.

    Some players take it further, because they really, really hate to lose. Especially when they're not in control. You'll find them in any post regarding defense. In their minds, not only should they not lose when they're online, they shouldn't lose when they're off.

    Unfortunately, this thought process is a byproduct of societies emphasis on being a winner. "If you're not winning, you're losing." "They don't give trophies to second place." "If you work hard enough, you will be a winner." In our case, playing what amounts to a glorified D&D, people have lost sight of the fact that not everyone can win.

    This app isn't a video game level that can eventually be conquered by anyone. We are playing against real people, with different amounts of resources at their disposal, whether it be money, brainpower, or time. Those with the most money, of course, will usually be the winners in this game. Those with the brainpower would do well to not advocate a meta change for that same reason. Those with both probably don't play games like this seriously.
  • medetec
    1571 posts Member
    Of course there will always be a meta, but there's a difference between having a single viable archetype and having a meta archetype (often multiple), a counter-meta archetype, and functional experimental lineups.

    The only other freemium remotely competitive game I play is Hearthstone, so I'll use it as an example. There is a definite meta, and if you want to win with the most ease you play meta decks. But there are multiple different meta decks, and as the meta develops, counter meta decks develop, and sometimes that tips a full on change in the meta, In addition, a long as you think the synergies through, you can successfully play non-meta experimental decks even at the highest levels. Players even bring some experimental decks to tournaments. Hearthstone is no paragon of balance but it illustrates a point.

    In this case, there is I single, lonely archetype that's playable and no real punishing counter so there is no evolution in the meta. You don't have to play the game deathly seriously to want to enjoy variety and still play at a level that takes a modicum of skill and brainpower. I like to experiment with different styles and synergies and test them against what other players come up with, but that's not an option currently.
  • I appreciate having a viable tank, I enjoy using Poe. I wish there was more tanks with high tier speed. I agree the turn meter coin flip is disheartening. Since I know these posts are being read, I'd like to add my two cents. Instead of nerfing Poe to oblivion, remove his turn meter reduction, keep him in the high tier speed. Purpose of tank in any mmo/rpg is to protect the party. What's the point if they can't act until it's too late? It really irritates me when I read posts, "Poe's speed, he shouldn't go first!" What the heck is the point of having tanks in this game? The turn meter reduction is too much, but keep him a viable tank.
  • Nerf damage and you ruin many toons. Glass cannons need to work the way they are intended. Lets just not allow 4 glass cannons to go before the opponent gets a chance to react.
  • Simda
    151 posts Member
    Zetto wrote: »
    I am guessing these problems you guys run into are in the top 10 rank in Arena.
    Duh, Poe is the ONLY way to get into top 10, so obviously top 10, nay, top 50 is choke-full of Poe teams

    i am top 5 and I don't have Poe in my team. He is not cool enough.

  • M9silent
    821 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    @Anraeth Exactly. A tank should be fast, taunt first, do some damage, and have some unique stuff. Expose is unique. Turn meter reduction is also okay, but over powered as an actual debuff. It can't be resisted. Poe would be fine if the turn meter reduction could be resisted. Then you'd see high tenacity teams coming to counter. Leaders that provide extra tenacity to resist. You could take it further and make it unresistable ONLY against first order troops. Resistance did fight first order, like Vader fought Jedi.

    @LoveLoveRice Well, while glass cannons need to work as intended, their damage isnfar out of control. Sure, DPS units should have light armor, low health, and high damage. But the DPS in this game are 1 or 2 shotting all units, including tanks. Aren't tanks suspossed to 'work as intended' and draw fire and soak damage? What balanced game has ever had tanks taunt and get 1 shotted? How is that fair? Even if they don't go before the team because turn meter reduction was resisted/removed, the DPS heroes will still 1 or 2 shot heroes.

    Edit: spelling
  • Qeltar wrote: »
    Poe alone is not the problem. So, many highdmg/speed toons is. If a toon is high damage, their health AND their speed should reflect that (aka, low health, slow speed). Right now, it's the opposite. They have high speed AND high damage (and the damage is far too great for the health pools in Arena).

    I say leave Poe alone and instead reduce damage in Arena 25% across the board (only when in Arena), maybe up to 40%. I strongly feel a simple across the board damage reduction would go miles farther and solve tons more problems. It certainly would immediately resolve entire teams being wiped out in one taunt.

    This is bang on. I posted this almost a month ago: https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/5254/the-real-problems-with-the-current-meta-too-many-consecutive-attacks-and-too-much-damage
    At the time not many agreed. Many more do now.
    There is just too much damage, and as you said, the high damage now often comes from the fastest characters, not the slowest ones. It makes absolutely no sense. You are right that neutering Poe won't change this. But Poe just means everyone has to have him.
    In a turn-based game it should not be possible to take the first 5 or 10 turns before the other guy can do anything.
    And the current insane damage obliterates diversity. I mean, I was trying to work towards a counter-attack team. What's the point? My guys can't counterattack after getting hit for 15,000 damage. Even if they survive, it's a drop in the bucket, and the next hit kills them. You can't build counterattack teams, or stun teams, or tank teams, or anything really other than FASTFASTFASTDPSDPSDPS.
    The other day in GW I had my full 5* Barriss almost get knocked out before I could move. She has like 18,000 HP.
    Two whole months for balancing. And nothing.

    +1,001 purple hairdryers for you good Sir!
  • Keaven
    1099 posts Member
    Regard the DpS meta issue, reducing damage across the board will only further narrow the scope of effective heroes and not solve the problem, and may potentially swing the balance towards unbeatable stall squads in the arena.

    The issue is a bit more complicated than that and requires some precision and slowly incremented changes to key heroes over time as to not completely remove their functions or synergy. Some nerfs and more buffs etc.

    Defense mechanics are also imbalanced compared to offense mechanics which could be addressed.
    Profile: Keaven
    Guild: Fear The Boot
  • AdamW
    692 posts Member
    goobstoob wrote: »
    Qeltar wrote: »
    Triqui wrote: »
    The " nerf crowd", as often derogatory named, do not exist. There is no decreto agenda to nerf everybody. There is, though, a group of people who believe the current balance of the game needs tweaking, and some of them think that Poe is a focal point for that. And yes, a couple of guys, myself included, are more vocal about it. But those who believe we are alone are being victim of their own confirmation bias. Dozens of different posters have agreed in this thread (just like dozens haven't). Maybe they slip through awareness, but they exist. It is not an imaginary problemas in the mind of a few. The devs also said once that they'll look at data, and use fubdsmentally that for nerfs (and they data show Barris needed a nerf, btw).
    Well said, and thank you.

    There is ABSOLUTELY a "nerf crowd" agenda, however I don't believe it exists to "nerf everybody", it exists to nerf characters that they either:
    a: didn't invest in and are now frustrated at going up against them
    b: don't like their play style and therefore deem "it must be wrong, because my opinion on how this game works is correct"
    c: got beat many times by teams that used said characters that "need to be nerfed" and are now butt-hurt
    d: some or all of the above

    To say otherwise is a little ridiculous. this doesn't necessarily apply to every single person that cries nerf, however it absolutely applies to most.

    +1 Its true
  • AdamW
    692 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Qeltar wrote: »
    J7000 wrote: »
    I think it's totally relevant to the discussion that many of us are tired of feeling like any effective team we developed and farmed is just going to be immediately smashed because folks refuse to adapt to the current meta.

    Please. When Poe first came out, sentiment was that he was underpowered. Then a few people discovered what he could do and everyone jumped on the bandwagon. He's a cheap and easy farm, F2P, and so everyone started putting them on their teams. Everyone knew they were doing this because of how powerful he was. And everyone also knew that this meant there was a good chance he would get nerfed.
    Heck, half the game got him for free!
    It's fine to ride the gravy train but eventually it ends.
    And this is great:
    J7000 wrote: »
    Its my position and you don't have to agree or like it.
    Followed immediately by:
    J7000 wrote: »
    Many are sick of the constant Nerf threads and I'm not even talking about ONLY Poe.
    The nerf threads are other people's opinions and you don't have to agree or like them.

    If you dont spend gems on the cantina refresh or to do his hard missions, you can expect a farm of up to 1.5-2 months. Not really an easy farm.

    People have taken the time out and invested it into this character, not right to completely change how he works screwing over players. Like I said before, its fine to take away the -25% turn meter, but they need to buff his tenacity and self heal% and keep his speed so he grabs taunt before his group is dead.
  • goobstoob wrote: »
    Qeltar wrote: »
    Triqui wrote: »
    The " nerf crowd", as often derogatory named, do not exist. There is no decreto agenda to nerf everybody. There is, though, a group of people who believe the current balance of the game needs tweaking, and some of them think that Poe is a focal point for that. And yes, a couple of guys, myself included, are more vocal about it. But those who believe we are alone are being victim of their own confirmation bias. Dozens of different posters have agreed in this thread (just like dozens haven't). Maybe they slip through awareness, but they exist. It is not an imaginary problemas in the mind of a few. The devs also said once that they'll look at data, and use fubdsmentally that for nerfs (and they data show Barris needed a nerf, btw).
    Well said, and thank you.

    There is ABSOLUTELY a "nerf crowd" agenda, however I don't believe it exists to "nerf everybody", it exists to nerf characters that they either:
    a: didn't invest in and are now frustrated at going up against them
    b: don't like their play style and therefore deem "it must be wrong, because my opinion on how this game works is correct"
    c: got beat many times by teams that used said characters that "need to be nerfed" and are now butt-hurt
    d: some or all of the above

    To say otherwise is a little ridiculous. this doesn't necessarily apply to every single person that cries nerf, however it absolutely applies to most.


    Exactly
  • J7000 wrote: »
    goobstoob wrote: »
    Qeltar wrote: »
    Triqui wrote: »
    The " nerf crowd", as often derogatory named, do not exist. There is no decreto agenda to nerf everybody. There is, though, a group of people who believe the current balance of the game needs tweaking, and some of them think that Poe is a focal point for that. And yes, a couple of guys, myself included, are more vocal about it. But those who believe we are alone are being victim of their own confirmation bias. Dozens of different posters have agreed in this thread (just like dozens haven't). Maybe they slip through awareness, but they exist. It is not an imaginary problemas in the mind of a few. The devs also said once that they'll look at data, and use fubdsmentally that for nerfs (and they data show Barris needed a nerf, btw).
    Well said, and thank you.

    There is ABSOLUTELY a "nerf crowd" agenda, however I don't believe it exists to "nerf everybody", it exists to nerf characters that they either:
    a: didn't invest in and are now frustrated at going up against them
    b: don't like their play style and therefore deem "it must be wrong, because my opinion on how this game works is correct"
    c: got beat many times by teams that used said characters that "need to be nerfed" and are now butt-hurt
    d: some or all of the above

    To say otherwise is a little ridiculous. this doesn't necessarily apply to every single person that cries nerf, however it absolutely applies to most.

    They also seem to be solely obsessed with only one part of the game-arena. I see Poeless teams Even in the top 10. I can only imagine how much easier it is in the top 100. It's become total hysteria lately and people are catching on to it.

    With the Jedi Challenge coming the game will be slightly less arena centric. In many ways if you want the new toon at 5-7*s you will most likely have to decide between that or giving your arena team ultra focus. For the first time I'm totally confused on who or what to farm. Do I grab the new Opress or get Koth? Cantina shipments.. lots of confusion there.

    Despite being in the top 20-5 for a long time I've always focused on MORE characters not a fully maxed 7* team. This makes my power level a little less than others but I have the diversity to change my team at anytime. I've never lost a GW because of this and even if Poe is nerfed (again) I'll be doing just fine. But that's not the point. We can't let a group of irate players control what happens to the game. Many of these folks never break the top 100 and it has nothing to do with POE. I've raged before on the devs but I've learned over time to give them a break and the benefit of the doubt. These same folks will target QGJ or even Poggle for the next Nerf. Its getting beyond ridiculous. No matter what the devs have done lately, and they've done some awesome things, there is always rage; it's old. Take a break from the game if you need to but quit trying to bully the devs. You don't represent all of us here. Quit pretending you are defending the weak. Some of you folks are just footstomping tyrants.

    The reason they focus on arena is simple.

    It's the best source of free gems.

    Some players that started during launch feel entitled to their top arena spot and subsequent free gems and character shards (AP). With the characters that they chose to develop and no others.

  • Simda
    151 posts Member
    I received Poe for free but I am not celebrating. I will like to strategize my attacks and even changed up my crew to play that sissors papers stone against my other respected opponents.

    It is however killing my game if it means I can only play with Poe on my team. That in my opinion is no strategy or fun. I will stop here because most posts get too lengthy.
  • Ilza
    67 posts Member
    I find it funny that much of this bickering about Poe would be solved if we actually had a more global arena. Then there would be recognition between the shards and (hopefully) prove to some that they are not going up against the really tuned squads.
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