Poe Dameron balancing

Replies

  • CPMP
    974 posts Member
    Obvious reasons why Poe needs a nerf :

    1) Some characters have high damage, while some others have low damage + have ability blocks, stuns, healing debuffs, defense buffs (kylo, vader, daka, dooku, mace etc) And with the low damage chars you have to plan carefully when and where to use them to play smart and strategically. Poe removes completely that aspect of the game because he taunts first and reduces turn meter. As a result if you have low damage characters with special abilities, will fail to kill him fast. Which makes the meta all about fast high dps chars.

    2) I've seen numerous videos about half of a team dying before the player even gets 1 turn. This is the most obvious reason to call for a nerf. And do you really think that the current Poe nerf will prevent this? If yes then by all means proceed to it. But im pretty sure it won't. And with team inspection in arena it wil make maters worse, since people are gonna avoid Poe teams and focus on others.

    3) None of the other tanks come even close to Poe. Even if Chewbacca had high speed and taunted first, his taunt is so much weaker than Poe's. He doesnt manipulate turn meter and he doesn't exposes enemies. Every tank in game and every tank that gonna be added to game, will be useless as long as there is a character that taunts first and does 2 other things too and all with 1 button.

    4) Counter teams. Every now and then someone pops on forums and says "My non Poe team can beat Poe teams!!" Well, congratz then, but whatever team you make, if you replace the weakest member and add Poe, your team will be twice as powerful. Do you want aoe team? Remove the weakest Aoe and add Poe in his place. Do you want single target dps team? Remove the weakest dps and add Poe. You want team with synergy? First Order team? Droid team? Nightsister team? Just remove the weakest character and add Poe in his place. Your team just became a lot better. There isn't a single team in game that by adding Poe wont make it better.

    To make things balanced, you need to bring Poe to par with other tanks. You need to make people consider getting other tanks too instead of just Poe. Check your Poe after "nerfs" and other tanks and think : "Does any tank now have a possible place in my team? Or Poe still outperforms them in every possible way? " The answer will possibly be no, and 80% of chars in this game are useless and waste of money. That's what Poe does.
    There is nothing wrong with carefully monitoring the situation and making changes in future when needed, but i would suggest to people to carefully monitor their wallets too and don't spend money on the many useless chars in game, but rather stick with their f2p Poe team.
  • ExarKun
    164 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Poe is not the problem. Poe is the only way to survive against the high dmg teams. I am most time Nummer 1 on my Server. If Poe gets nerfed Try to beat a Poogle droid team or a QGJ Poogle GSs Rey team. Poe is the solution not the problem. Play in the top ten before crying about Poe.

    Just push every tank into a working tank or nerf every 2 3 or 4 time high dmg attacker ,massive dmg booster like Poogle and nerf Poe!
    Post edited by ExarKun on
  • CPMP
    974 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    ExarKun wrote: »
    Try to beat a Poogle droid team or a QGJ Poogle GSs Rey team. Poe is the solution not the problem.

    Lol, those 2 teams you mentioned already have Poe in them. And expose adds to the high damage burst. And turn meter remove from enemy team already helps so the droids will attack before their team and wipe it out. You just said "Poe is not the problem, but Poe is the problem".
    ExarKun wrote: »
    Play in the top ten before crying about Poe.

    You speak as if this game requires immense skills and a lot of strategy. Just give me a Poe, poggle, droid team and all i have to do is click the buttons that are in my screen. Poe taunt, Poggle buff, droid assist, droid aoe, oh so hard. Please teach me how to play, oh master Strategist.
  • Triqui
    2790 posts Member
    ExarKun wrote: »
    Poe is not the problem. Poe is the only way to survive against the high dmg teams. I am most time Nummer 1 on my Server. If Poe gets nerfed Try to beat a Poogle droid team or a QGJ Poogle GSs Rey team. Poe is the solution not the problem. Play in the top ten before crying about Poe.
    Don't know what make you think those who "cry" about Poe dont play in top 10.
    Those two teams you mention use Poe. So I dont see how they are a proof of Poe's balanced status.
  • ExarKun wrote: »
    Play in the top ten before crying about Poe.

    Who isn't? :*

  • Cythis
    273 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Remove Poes turn meter and all you will see is nerf phasmas turn meter. A lot of miss information here focused on Poe.

    As I stated earlier we need a counter not nerfs. First turn/Turn meter gain builds will just take over if Poe is NERFed most of these suugestion do not solve the issue.

    Create a counter to turn meter manipulation CG.
  • Tak
    352 posts Member
    Is anyone else getting sick and tired of Poe? It's not even fun. Half the games go like Poe taunts,lose 3-4 characters before 20 seconds into the match,auto loss/auto win

    Even with the patch next week it doesn't change that fact. It's just not fun winning or losing like that and something has to change.
  • Triqui
    2790 posts Member
    Cythis wrote: »
    Remove Poes turn meter and all you will see is nerf phasmas turn meter. A lot of miss information here focused on Poe.

    Phasma, or Tarkin, or FOO, or Han, or Clone sargent do not have a chance to act before everyone else does. And thus, they have natural counters, because you can act before they do, and try to kill, stun, ability block them.

    Poe has turn meter control before anybody acts, if he wins the coin toss. He is not like any other turn controller, at all.
  • Actually, I am in favour of nerfing Poe, but I see no reason to not be catious and trying one step at a time. I've had ALOT of matches in the Arena against Poe Teams where they'll have all the "right" units but by some miracle the expose only lands on one of my toons. When that happens most of my toons survice the first assault and I can turn the match around. When 3-5 of my Toons get Exposed it's bye bye. So I'll just wait until after the next update to actually see if this nerf is "good enough". Time will tell.

    If they removed the turn meter effect of his taunt he would go from being OP right now to being practically worthless. At least to me. And I only have a 4* Poe, I would feel **** sorry for the ones that have him at 7*. Like alot of people mentioned, buff some other characters instead to have some proper counters, don't overdo the nerf.
  • Triqui
    2790 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    RonTom wrote: »
    If they removed the turn meter effect of his taunt he would go from being OP right now to being practically worthless. At least to me. And I only have a 4* Poe, I would feel **** sorry for the ones that have him at 7*. Like alot of people mentioned, buff some other characters instead to have some proper counters, don't overdo the nerf.
    If a tank able to taunt for two turns before anyone else, highest tenscity in game, who add extra damage through expose and has offense down with his basic (that is: a tank's dream of skills) is "practically worthless" unless he also does the job of support units (turn control), then that's a hint that something is wrong here: tanks arent doing their job because they arent tanky enough.
    Post edited by Triqui on
  • So the dev should change his classification from 'tank' to 'GOD'. That should solve everything then.

    God glassed POE.
  • @MenaceTEC Thanks for the Poe discussion. Good qoutes /s

    @AdamW I agree. After this patch comes out, they should revert the changes to Poe. Give him his tenacity and expose chance back. You suggested removing the turn meter reduction (TMR), as have others, but what if they just make it resistable?

    All other negative effects/debuffs can be resisted, and damage can be dodged/evaded/deflected. So why isn't TMR resistable? You could even go one step further after making it resistable: like Vaders attacks against Jedi, make poenTMR nonresistable by First Order.

    I feel like that would be a good balance change. Teams would have a chance to not go behind all 5 of the enemy teams heroes, and would see the rise of tenacity increasing leaders.
  • Omnirhyze
    167 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Can someone tell me if it's safe to farm Poe. All this talk about nerfing him, which has been going on for a quite a while, is really discouraging me from doing so. I have Daka and QGJ at four stars, FYI.
    Ally code: 323-282-152. Member of TNR. The New Rebellion
  • Omnirhyze wrote: »
    Can someone tell me if it's safe to farm Poe. All this talk about nerfing him, which has been going on for a quite a while, is really discouraging me from doing so. I have Daka and QGJ at four stars, FYI.

    I think if your are using daka and qbj you should try to get Han or a different Tank. That is too many people competing for Cantina Shipments. Unless you are spending a lot of money.
  • Preemo_Magin
    1826 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Simda wrote: »
    I received Poe for free but I am not celebrating. I will like to strategize my attacks and even changed up my crew to play that sissors papers stone against my other respected opponents.

    It is however killing my game if it means I can only play with Poe on my team. That in my opinion is no strategy or fun. I will stop here because most posts get too lengthy.

    Ok, but I feel it's a bit like ...if enemy has rock (Poe) you may need Paper. Your current team (if Poe is your issue) is Scissors. Of course, drawing rock yourself is a tie (in GoH lingo where there are no ties, it may be a toss or RNG). So, enemy has Rock, and you'd like the game to be fun but never bringing Paper (the many Poe counter options exclusing Poe) nor Rock (a tie where RNG influence is important, as tou find rhis boring).

    So the only way to play this is to eliminate Rock. Poe may remain the same or be destroyed as a char...but in general there's no need for either.

    But if you don't adapt and always need CG to fit the playstyle, it's obvious half the gamers will always be in rage. Do this 4 times and 87.5% of all games will have gone irate....

    Poe can get another tweak, but it's not a large problem. He just brings a bit too much and it makes dmg/HP balance issues more evidently. But if a large number if players have Paper teams (Poe destroyers that do not depend much on RNG)...meta will quickly shift to thise better teams. Who'd want a defense that works 30% of times?

    The reason many use Poe today is that developing anti Poe (or anti Tanks early on) takes times.

    Remember when Jedi counter teams dominated all of arena. When Sid got a buff and Dooku powers, theybwould still do well, but not good enough to sustain those teams as best plan.
  • If you nerf Poe anymore then there will no longer be a need for a tank might as well just carry another DPS. More needs to be done than just nerfing Poe's abilities to balance the game. Nerfing Poe will actually make it more out of balance. Right now where I am dont see the problem. I am running Poe and a lot of people are. But top 10 has a Han and a Chewbacca as leaders.
  • I like this approach.
  • If you nerf Poe anymore then there will no longer be a need for a tank might as well just carry another DPS. More needs to be done than just nerfing Poe's abilities to balance the game. Nerfing Poe will actually make it more out of balance. Right now where I am dont see the problem. I am running Poe and a lot of people are. But top 10 has a Han and a Chewbacca as leaders.

    That doesn't mean they have no poe in their team. And try to play without Poe, you will see how fast your team die without him.

    Because he steal your turn meter before you can do ****, then 1-2 toons die (depends on enemy team), then you make some damage to poe and enemy Lumi heals him. You are dead.

    This is the flow of every match where I stands against poe team.
  • M9silent wrote: »
    @MenaceTEC Thanks for the Poe discussion. Good qoutes /s

    @AdamW I agree. After this patch comes out, they should revert the changes to Poe. Give him his tenacity and expose chance back. You suggested removing the turn meter reduction (TMR), as have others, but what if they just make it resistable?

    All other negative effects/debuffs can be resisted, and damage can be dodged/evaded/deflected. So why isn't TMR resistable? You could even go one step further after making it resistable: like Vaders attacks against Jedi, make poenTMR nonresistable by First Order.

    I feel like that would be a good balance change. Teams would have a chance to not go behind all 5 of the enemy teams heroes, and would see the rise of tenacity increasing leaders.

    @M9silent

    I like everyone else has already stated my opinion on the matter.

    Add a character or a skill that reduces damage dealt by 40-60% for two turns. Problem solved and nothing gets nerfed.

    My comment goes to the thread. Which is EA telling us they are listening.

    I like others don't want the whiny loud board trollers to control this game and as such disagree and give reasons why I disagree with the nerf.

  • Smithie
    1427 posts Member
    If you nerf Poe to a state he is unusable in the Arena, who would I contact to get a refund of the Force Awakens pack and all the crystals I spent to get him to 7*.

    Yes I use him yes he is good but he can be countered by QGJ and still has above average health.

    If your going to keep Nerfing Poe I want Sid Lumi Tie Pilot Leia nerfed too!
  • Smithie
    1427 posts Member
    Also Rey nerfed
  • Smithie wrote: »
    If you nerf Poe to a state he is unusable in the Arena, who would I contact to get a refund of the Force Awakens pack and all the crystals I spent to get him to 7*.

    Yes I use him yes he is good but he can be countered by QGJ and still has above average health.

    If your going to keep Nerfing Poe I want Sid Lumi Tie Pilot Leia nerfed too!

    Agreed with the refund part. Phasma was not working as intended (arguable) so I haven't complained about her nerf. But bending to the will of the loudest is not a bug I've heard of.
  • Rolf
    1032 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    As my arena team has strengthened (without Poe) I've come to learn that I can beat Poe teams consistently, as long as they don't also have the mega-cannons (FOTP, Rey, etc). As long as he doesn't have the insane offense power behind him, I can weather the storm of his whole team going first. Then I heal, knock him out, and proceed with the rest of the team.

    This leads me to believe that we can live with Poe, as is. If, as many have suggested, they just turn down the overall damage then we can survive a strafing even from the cannons, and everyone can be free to choose whatever counters they want. The only reason Poe is the be-all is because the game allows his turn-meter control to decide the whole battle. If battles were to be relevant beyond the first turn, then Poe will be fine and doesn't need a fix.
    My ally code: 296-673-769. Wish we could have more than 35.
  • Sixplicit
    88 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    If you nerf Poe's turn meter by taking it away who here would honestly use him anymore? How many people here use any tank besides Poe and maybe Ben in top arena? How many people would dare to stick a single droid or maul in there arena team if Poe was not around? Nerfing Poe's turn meter reduction by taking it away will make several toons obsolete. There's already too many that are not viable.

    What is needed is not a nerf but a buff to other toons. Other tanks and more counters need to be established. Possibly a tank with AOE dmg reduction that is just as fast as Poe but can be resisted. Also, you could maybe buff Poe's health and then make his turn meter resistable.

    I have been as high as no.1 with Poe or without him. And it was basically always the same toons before he was meta. He allows for a bit of diversity. Though it is still not diverse enough. More toons need tuning and need to be added. There should also be a system implemented with several toons that cannot be bought or farmed until you awaken one maybe from some monthly login card. Completely rng based. 3-4 star toons with a chance at a Natural 5 star. That way we will start seeing more diversity in comps. If everyone can get the same toons with farming or money the meta will always be cookie cutter which will eventually lead to boredom. As it stands now I have every toon except Anakin who I don't really want. I just finished farming Rey who was on my wish list. I should be pining for certain toons. Make me want something. Give me hope and possible excitement in a pull. There should be toons that I can't work towards or that I can't buy but that I got super lucky to pull and peeps should be jelly.

    Also it would be nice to have a couple of gear slots or boost slots that players could change and manipulate so as my Sid could be different than some other players Sid. Soon everyone will be the same and where is the fun in that type of system.
  • JohnnySteelAlpha
    2794 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    I'm not saying this as a counter that I built - but using Poe I'm having trouble vs. Daka / Lumi combinations recently that are maxed out 7*+ gear. I nearly lost with a speed team vs. a Lumi / Daka squad that didn't even have Poe on it today. Example of a team I had some serious issues with:

    Phasma leader
    Lumi
    Daka
    Sid
    Kylo

    I'm continue to see the traditional speed meta on shakier footing. Versions with Poe + Daka + Lumi + Kylo + Sid are particularly tricky. You have a tough choice on who to focus down. That's still Poe ... but I'm not sure the damage / health / DPS component we saw before is still holding. I'm seeing tanking /healing versions start to be on par with glass cannon / speed / non-heal versions. Was testing some with a Barriss leader vs. these teams and having some success tanking / healing without using Poe. If you use on average tankier heroes and heroes that are maxed in their health at 7*, you can survive damage pretty well.

    Phasma and Kylo I feel are critical pieces to have. Tanking+aoe ... but phasma especially with speed down and round 2 meter control is very good.

  • Enklave wrote: »
    If you nerf Poe anymore then there will no longer be a need for a tank might as well just carry another DPS. More needs to be done than just nerfing Poe's abilities to balance the game. Nerfing Poe will actually make it more out of balance. Right now where I am dont see the problem. I am running Poe and a lot of people are. But top 10 has a Han and a Chewbacca as leaders.

    That doesn't mean they have no poe in their team. And try to play without Poe, you will see how fast your team die without him.

    Because he steal your turn meter before you can do ****, then 1-2 toons die (depends on enemy team), then you make some damage to poe and enemy Lumi heals him. You are dead.

    This is the flow of every match where I stands against poe team.

    This is the whole purpose of using Poe. If you take away his turn meter reduction what advantage does carrying him give your team. Need to give him more health and make taunt unremovable same for all tanks. No tank should die with two hits if you are going to take away the turn meter reduction. And if you slow him down other members will be dead before he gets his turn.
  • Tak
    352 posts Member
    I'm not saying this as a counter that I built - but using Poe I'm having trouble vs. Daka / Lumi combinations recently that are maxed out 7*+ gear. I nearly lost with a speed team vs. a Lumi / Daka squad that didn't even have Poe on it today. Example of a team I had some serious issues with:

    Phasma leader
    Lumi
    Daka
    Sid
    Kylo

    I'm continue to see the traditional speed meta on shakier footing. Versions with Poe + Daka + Lumi + Kylo + Sid are particularly tricky. You have a tough choice on who to focus down. That's still Poe ... but I'm not sure the damage / health / DPS component we saw before is still holding. I'm seeing tanking /healing versions start to be on par with glass cannon / speed / non-heal versions. Was testing some with a Barriss leader vs. these teams and having some success tanking / healing without using Poe. If you use on average tankier heroes and heroes that are maxed in their health at 7*, you can survive damage pretty well.

    Phasma and Kylo I feel are critical pieces to have. Tanking+aoe ... but phasma especially with speed down and round 2 meter control is very good.

    I run this time and do ok...BUT and that's a big but. More often than not I'm down daka,Sidious snd lumi before I get a chance to move. This is not a skill issue or learn to play. I'm currently trying to star up savage as well to see how he does.

    The fact of the matter is my team suffers tremendously without using my own Poe and the ability to see I'm now not running Poe in arena means I'll have a very hard time getting back to number 1.

    Tldr you can beat Poe teams but for example today I lost 7 games in a row and only beat that team because daka ressed and lumi healed. I'm ok with meta being what it is but I'm not ok playing a turn based strategy game and losing more than half my team before I can respond.

    That needs to change
  • Nutteralex
    449 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    We will have to see if the dropped tenacity will change battles but as it stands he is too OP because of the mixture of his speed and the turn metre reduction. IMO he should be nerfed so he's not attacking first turn. If a Poe goes first in a fight its very unlikely you're going to win unless if daka or someone has RNG on their side. The problem is they can have their whole team move before you can make one.

    It's not complicated really. But if after the update he's much easier to be stunned or healing immunitied then he'll be fine, but if not, not running Poe is gimping your team, even if you can build something else that's good.

    The only people who say he doesn't need nerf are the people who use him and know he's OP.
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