Has Disney disrespected Lucas.

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Ok, so not trying to start one of those tired "Trilogy Wars" debates. I want to know if you think Disney/Abrams went too far in their quest to please "Star Wars Purists and RLM fans".

I was sad to hear Lucas was also underwhelmed by the new movie (so much he made a controversial statement about Disney that he was forced to take back). It's bad enough the fans painted him to be the Devil, but to have the people he trusted jump on the band wagon to ensure profit and good reviews just seems really disgusting.

The man is in his 70's and has given up on film making because he couldn't handle the
personal attacks from the intertornet that went well beyond constructive feed back about diologe or casting.

I just hope he still proud of his accomplishments as a pioneer in cinema, technology, and business. For all that he's done, he doesn't deasrve the "inky goo" he's gotten from us, and essentially not from Jar Jar Abrams or Disney.

Replies

  • I think Lucas disrespected Lucas with the prequels. I read somewhere that episode 1 was written with anakin being a teenager and the consensus was that TPM would sell better as a kids movie. Lucas rewrote the entire movie in 2 to 3 weeks and they shot it from there. That's why there seems to be so much chaotic nonsense going on with the pod race\betting\slave trade\ unintelligible political mumble. There is footage of Lucas, mccallum, and burt discussing the fact that the 3 main plots don't even fit together into a cohesive story.
  • Lucas sold the rights to Disney, choices were made. That was his decision. His legacy is intact, I don't see that changing at all.

    The thing is you just can't yell "get off of my lawn" after you have sold your house. If you do you open yourself up to "inky goo"..




  • Oh.. And welcome to the forum!
  • BentWookie wrote: »
    Oh.. And welcome to the forum!

    Thanks :)
  • I think Lucas disrespected Lucas with the prequels. I read somewhere that episode 1 was written with anakin being a teenager and the consensus was that TPM would sell better as a kids movie. Lucas rewrote the entire movie in 2 to 3 weeks and they shot it from there. That's why there seems to be so much chaotic nonsense going on with the pod race\betting\slave trade\ unintelligible political mumble. There is footage of Lucas, mccallum, and burt discussing the fact that the 3 main plots don't even fit together into a cohesive story.

    That's interesting, but that's a common theme with movies, and sometimes they don always work out. Poe in Episode 7 originally was written as haveing died in the Tie crash. As much as I loved Poe, his miraculous return was horribly executed that he probably should have been replaced with a new character.
  • I encourage everyone to read the first script for TPM. It actually sounds like an entertaining star wars movie The problem in the revised TPM is the same as the poe issue in TFA. Taking the child audience's feelings, or worse, financial gains into account ruins the movie 95% of the time. If the movie industry concentrated on making the best movie they can rather than what will make the most money I would be willing to see more than 1 movie every 3 years.
  • Lucas should have only produced the prequels and let others direct... Like he did with Empire and RotJ.
    "You don't want to sell me death sticks... You want to go home and rethink your life. "
    Obi-Wan Kenobi
  • Lucas is his own undoing. He had a vision and decided along the way that Star Wars was for kids, even before finishing the first trilogy. We were never supposed to have ewoks.
    ☮ Consular ☮ Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view. -Ben Kenobi
  • Actually I have a theory on that too. ;)
    Fact: he originally wanted to be on kyasskh (sp) with an army of wookies, but it was either out of the budget, or hard to find 50 Peter Mayhews. Opinion:He instead made them ewoks. Wookie pronounced backwards.
  • Ello_Asty wrote: »
    Lucas is his own undoing. He had a vision and decided along the way that Star Wars was for kids, even before finishing the first trilogy. We were never supposed to have ewoks.


    Ewoks or muppets.. He sold out before he sold out. :/
  • Unpopular opinion: I thought the prequels were great. Episode III is my favourite Star Wars movie.

    I think George Lucas did a great job creating a trilogy that highlighted the golden age of the Jedi. Unfortunately, some people just wanted to see more Han/Luke/Leia instead. I also liked that the prequels expanded the Star Wars universe and took creative risks, something that was severely lacking in Episode 7.

    And George is simply a really nice guy. I don't get why people hate him. He's currently spending the entirety of the $4 billion acquired from Disney towards charity.
  • cosmicturtle333
    5004 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    I think George Lucas is massively over rated to be honest. Not many people know about all of the scripts that were written and thrown out so many times. He originally wanted to make nine movies and then cut it down to three, then up to six. The prequel trilogy was written at least twice.

    Star Wars is one of my favourite movies of all time, but Lucas is not one of my favourite directors.
    My name is cosmicturtle333, aka CT-333, aka Threes.
  • Eps I was horrible. Worst star wars ever made.
    Eps II was good except the anikan and padma parts.
    Eps III was great. Liked everything in it except how all the jedi died. But then again if all the jedis had proper deaths, movie would have been 4 hours long. Rank it second only behind empire strikes back.

    Disney did disrespect Lucas some, but not as much as people act. But Lucas really did it to himself when he started remastering all the original films. That started making star war fans dislike him. So for esp VII Disney basically threw him away.
  • Ring
    559 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Umm... yeah, no.

    1) Please read up on the history of Star Wars. If it weren't for Lucas' wife, we'd have gotten a corny, B-class sci-fi flick instead of the magnificent space fantasy experience that is SW. It truly is a pity that so few people even know the name Marcia Lucas...

    2) Jar-Jar Binks...

    3) Every film that Lucas backed away from is amazing (for example ESB, the best part of the entire Saga). Every movie he wanted to handle personally is a cinematic nightmare (prequels).

    4) Jar-Jar Binks

    5) Since when is ensuring profit and good reviews a bad thing? Isn't that what Lucas was aiming for with the prequels? They're so mediocre precisely because he couldn't decide who should be his target audience, so he wanted to make a movie for everyone (thus points 2 and 4). You can't make a movie for EVERYONE. It doesn't work that way.

    6) Have I mentioned Jar-Jar Binks?

    7) Bottom line is Abrams made Star Wars fun once again. Just like he did with Star Trek. Lucas made a mess of the whole thing, altering things and basically almost running the whole franchise right smack into the ground (with all the dumb ideas from the Clone Wars, like making Mandalorians into pacifists).

    8) And then there is Jar-Jar Binks.

    9) Name one cool character from the prequels. Darth Maul, right? What did Lucas do? Kill him off in the first movie and THEN bring him back to life in the dumbest possible way in the Clone Wars series, because he saw that none of the other characters came even remotely close to his popularity. But yeah, it's Abrams who's the little beach... :/

    10) You know what I want to say here, right?
  • I think George Lucas is massively over rated to be honest. Not many people know about all of the scripts that were written and thrown out so many times. He originally wanted to make nine movies and then cut it down to three, then up to six. The prequel trilogy was written at least twice.

    Star Wars is one of my favourite movies of all time, but Lucas is not one of my favourite directors.

    Overrated as a director? Yes of course. Even he doesn't consider himself that great of a director. However in terms of creative genius and world-building he's one of the top in his field.
  • Rolf
    1032 posts Member
    To answer the OP original question: No, if for no other reason that Lucas sold the rights. No one forced him to do it, and no one forced him to give up the right to say all former canon things stay canon.
    Disney bought it, has a contract, and can do whatever they want within the terms of that contract. If Lucas wanted certain things a certain way he could've negotiated for them, or walked away from the table.
    My ally code: 296-673-769. Wish we could have more than 35.
  • Han shot first!!!
    "You don't want to sell me death sticks... You want to go home and rethink your life. "
    Obi-Wan Kenobi
  • Baal
    602 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Lucas disrespected himself...he actually went before congress as a younger man arguing in support of film archival to protect against even a film's creators, then proceeded to butcher his own work, refusing to allow original, unbutchered versions to be available.

    Glad he's out the picture. Hope him and jarjar have a great life together.

  • CPMP
    974 posts Member
    Keep in mind that there are as many people liking the prequels as the ones liking the originals. You hated jar jar, ok, personaly i hated all the ewok part, worshipping c3po as god and beating stormtroopers with rocks and sticks.
    But the fact is that a vast majority of both sides hated the dinsey Star Wars. For me Star Wars end with episode 6. Every episode from now on is a shamefull attempt for cash grab. There will be no innovation. JJ will use every piece that people loved from old 6 movies and throw it into his new movies.
    Lucas was trying to make the movies for the people. Disney will try to make movies for the money.
    And as much as you hate the prequels, the truth is that they opened a whole new horizon to Star Wars universe. Every game that was created, had "elements" based on the prequels. The force, the jedi, the Sith, etc.
  • Ring
    559 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    CPMP wrote: »
    But the fact is that a vast majority of both sides hated the dinsey Star Wars.

    Say WHAT? How is that a "fact"? Where did you get this information? Clearly I haven't met any of this "vast majority", because pretty much everyone I know either liked or downright loved the new Star Wars. I would really love to see you back that claim with some data please. And if this movie is so bad, how come it's one of the top grossing movies of all times?
    CPMP wrote: »
    Lucas was trying to make the movies for the people. Disney will try to make movies for the money.

    Again, WHAT? Lucas' "making movies for movies' sake" ended a long time ago. The prequel trilogy was just as much of a cash grab as the new movie. You couldn't open a can of sardines without something Star Wars related jumping out at you. Clearly we remember those days very differently...
    CPMP wrote: »
    The force, the jedi, the Sith, etc.

    Yeah, except all those things come from the ORIGINAL trilogy. You know what came from the prequels? Midichlorians, Jar-Jar and Hayden "I-couldn't-act-my-way-out-of-a-wet-paper-bag" Christensen.
  • Baal
    602 posts Member
    Actually, nothing "came" from star wars...it was all german, from the mythos to the dogfighting. Even kotor's sith code was adapted from mein kampf.
  • Rolf
    1032 posts Member
    Baal wrote: »
    Actually, nothing "came" from star wars...it was all german, from the mythos to the dogfighting. Even kotor's sith code was adapted from mein kampf.
    And Vader (ok, Vater) is "father" in German. Glad I didn't know that when I was a kid, or it would've spoiled the "big reveal".

    My ally code: 296-673-769. Wish we could have more than 35.
  • Ring wrote: »
    Say WHAT? How is that a "fact"? Where did you get this information? Clearly I haven't met any of this "vast majority", because pretty much everyone I know either liked or downright loved the new Star Wars. I would really love to see you back that claim with some data please. And if this movie is so bad, how come it's one of the top grossing movies of all times?

    You're right, the majority of people like/love the new Star Wars movie. However there is quite a large group of people who are disappointed, mainly due to the fact that it's a rehash of Episode 4 with elements from 5 and 6 as well as the blatant disregard for how the force works.

    Keep in mind, there are plenty of interviews/reviews of people raving about Episode 1 back when it came out. It wasn't until the majority of people started using the internet when it was discovered that liking the prequels was shunned and indicated that you weren't a "true" fan. In actuality, there are plenty of people who like all 6 star wars movies, they just aren't the most vocal due to the backlash.

    And just because a movie does well in the box office, doesn't exempt it from criticism. Look at the Transformers movies. ;)
    Ring wrote: »
    Again, WHAT? Lucas' "making movies for movies' sake" ended a long time ago. The prequel trilogy was just as much of a cash grab as the new movie. You couldn't open a can of sardines without something Star Wars related jumping out at you. Clearly we remember those days very differently...

    And episode 7 isn't ;).

    In all honesty, yes Episode 1 had elements which were geared towards the younger demographic in order to sell merchandise. The same can be said for the original trilogy. However when Episode 3 came out, there were zero "cash-grab" elements. It was a much darker movie that had many scenes which weren't exactly appropriate for a younger audience. There was a lot of heart put into that movie and to say that it's a "cash-grab" is a disservice to everyone involving in the making of it.
    Ring wrote: »
    Yeah, except all those things come from the ORIGINAL trilogy. You know what came from the prequels? Midichlorians, Jar-Jar and Hayden "I-couldn't-act-my-way-out-of-a-wet-paper-bag" Christensen.

    Young Obi-Wan, Chancellor Palatine in his prime, Qui-Gon Jinn, Darth Maul, Mace Windu, Jango Fett, General Grevious, Count Dooku, the Clone Troopers, the Jedi Order, lightsaber fights that accurately portrayed the agility and grace of the Jedi, Order 66, world building (Coruscant, Naboo, Kamino, Geonosis, Utapau, Mustafar, Kashyyyk), Sith mythology, the Rule of Two, Darth Plagueis the Wise, The Clone Wars animated series, the expanded universe...

    Shall I go on? ;)
  • The sentiment that people don't like the prequels due to the fact that the Internet has persuaded them is ludicrous. Critics universally dispised the movie fight club, but if you look at the reviews on imdb you will see a very high rating. The same with the big lebowski. People like what they like. The Internet doesn't color that opinion.
  • D_Millennial
    847 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    The sentiment that people don't like the prequels due to the fact that the Internet has persuaded them is ludicrous. Critics universally dispised the movie fight club, but if you look at the reviews on imdb you will see a very high rating. The same with the big lebowski. People like what they like. The Internet doesn't color that opinion.

    People do like to jump on bandwagons. ;)

    But even if your right, the fact remains that there are many people who like the prequels. They're just not the most vocal.
  • Ring
    559 posts Member
    However there is quite a large group of people who are disappointed,

    And this I can understand. There will always be a certain number of people who won't like even the greatest movie/book/game/whatever. And that's absolutely normal. But saying that most people don't like it is a huge exaggeration.
    Keep in mind, there are plenty of interviews/reviews of people raving about Episode 1 back when it came out.

    That's a different story. Although, to be fair, I think I actually enjoyed Episode I the most out of the prequel trilogy. Sure, I hate Jar-Jar, spoiled-brat Anakin, the corny dialogue and Natalie Portman, a talented actress who seemed uninterested whether or not she did a good job. But Liam Neeson was there (one of the three and a half Jedi out of the entire Star Wars universe that I liked - the other being Aayla Secura and Etain Tur-Mukan, while the half is, obviously, Rey), as was Darth Maul, an absolutely amazing character, whose death was one of the biggest mistakes in movie history.
    And episode 7 isn't ;).

    I never said that. On the contrary, see point 5 of my first post in this thread. There is nothing wrong about wanting to make money. It's just that Lucas completely lost soght of any other goal, all he wanted was money and more money.
    Young Obi-Wan, Chancellor Palatine in his prime, Qui-Gon Jinn, Darth Maul, Mace Windu, Jango Fett, General Grevious, Count Dooku, the Clone Troopers, the Jedi Order, lightsaber fights that accurately portrayed the agility and grace of the Jedi, Order 66, world building (Coruscant, Naboo, Kamino, Geonosis, Utapau, Mustafar, Kashyyyk), Sith mythology, the Rule of Two, Darth Plagueis the Wise, The Clone Wars animated series, the expanded universe...

    Well, some of this stuff actually came before Lucas even thought of the prequels. Coruscant appeared in the Thrawn Trilogy, as did Kashyyyk (don't recall seeing the name before that). Expanded Universe had nothing to do with the prequels, actually they ruined huge parts of it for NO reason whatsoever (Mandalorians in the EU were absolutely cool, what Lucas did to them is a crime). The Sith mythology was also introduced in the EU and the prequels left all that out completely. Jango Fett is a character who makes no sense at all - he hates the Jedi with a passion, yet agrees to give up his life in order to build an army for them; explain the logic of that to me, please.

    Need I go on? ;)
  • Ring wrote: »
    I never said that. On the contrary, see point 5 of my first post in this thread. There is nothing wrong about wanting to make money. It's just that Lucas completely lost soght of any other goal, all he wanted was money and more money.

    There a big difference between wanting to make money (which all movies have to do) and a cash-grab. Disney is more guilty here then Lucas.
    Ring wrote: »
    Well, some of this stuff actually came before Lucas even thought of the prequels. Coruscant appeared in the Thrawn Trilogy, as did Kashyyyk (don't recall seeing the name before that). Expanded Universe had nothing to do with the prequels, actually they ruined huge parts of it for NO reason whatsoever (Mandalorians in the EU were absolutely cool, what Lucas did to them is a crime). The Sith mythology was also introduced in the EU and the prequels left all that out completely. Jango Fett is a character who makes no sense at all - he hates the Jedi with a passion, yet agrees to give up his life in order to build an army for them; explain the logic of that to me, please.

    Need I go on? ;)

    Your nitpicking :)

    The good from the prequels far outweighs the frivolous quibbles, something that can be said for every star wars movie.
  • Ring
    559 posts Member
    There a big difference between wanting to make money (which all movies have to do) and a cash-grab. Disney is more guilty here then Lucas.

    Then I guess we'll just have agree to disagree ;) For me TFA is more about making the story enjoyable and popular again, rather than just draining peoples' pockets.
    Your nitpicking :)

    Nope. I'm pointing out that what you consider the strong points of the prequels actually have very little to do with the prequels as such and are, in fact, ideas of other people, later used by Lucas in his movies. His own ideas, like the midichlorians, are... well... I think I made my opinion of that pretty obvious ;)

    Anyway, we're drifting away from the topic at hand. In my opinion there is very little that Disney could do that would be any worse than what Lucas did to Star Wars between the launch of Episode I and the day he sold the rights to Disney.
  • CPMP
    974 posts Member
    Ring wrote: »

    Say WHAT? How is that a "fact"? Where did you get this information? Clearly I haven't met any of this "vast majority", because pretty much everyone I know either liked or downright loved the new Star Wars. I would really love to see you back that claim with some data please. And if this movie is so bad, how come it's one of the top grossing movies of all times?

    If everyone you know liked the movie, can you please tell me what exactly they liked in movie? Because the people that didn't like it, can give you a whole page of reasons of why the movie ****. ( Unoriginal plot that added nothing to the Star Wars universe, The bad guys weren't intimidating, just hyped and clownish, The main character is a perfect, Jesus-like Mary Sue, Another Death Star, Another droid that holds the secret to defeat the bad guys, Another luke in the dessert, Empire is gone but there is a Resistance instead of a Republic, etc etc. And those are just the first reasons i bothered to write among the 100+ that exist on the interent)

    So if you believe top grossing movies are the best, shall i suppose you like : Spider Man 3, Twilight Saga, Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen etc? And don't get me started about the overhyped movies...

  • Ring
    559 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    CPMP wrote: »
    If everyone you know liked the movie, can you please tell me what exactly they liked in movie?

    You DO know it's not polite to respond to a question with another question? You said it's a "fact" that a "vast majority" of SW fans hated TFA. I'm still waiting for you to back that claim up with something more than "it's my opinion".

    You say the plot is unoriginal. As opposed to what, exactly? The original Star Wars, which were a rip-off of a number of different stories glued together? Accusing anything Star Wars related of being unoriginal makes about as much sense as accusing it of being scientifically inaccurate. The only reply to both can be "no kidding, Sherlock". :wink:

    But ok, I'll bite. What my friends and I liked about the movie:
    - a perfect balance between action and humor, something that the prequels missed completely
    - chemistry between the old and the new characters (again, the prequels lacked any sort of chemistry, probably because the guy playing the character who was supposed to be responsible for this chemistry had the acting skills of a jellyfish on a frying pan.
    - going back to "old-fashioned" special effects, as opposed to using blue-screen for everything, which made everything look fake
    - nostalgia
    - characters who, like the ones from the OT, are more than paper-thin
    - BB-8
    - Bet you were thinking I would bring up Rey, right? :wink:

    That's just a short list off the top of my head.
    CPMP wrote: »
    So if you believe top grossing movies are the best, shall i suppose you like : Spider Man 3, Twilight Saga, Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen etc? And don't get me started about the overhyped movies...

    Nope. But then none of those movies came even close to making as much money AND staying on top for such a long time. Compare the results of Crystal Skull and TFA after,say, 4 weeks. See how the former plummetted while the latter is still up there? THAT's the difference.

    So, still waiting for the answer to my questions.
    Post edited by Ring on
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