Poe Dameron balancing

Replies

  • medetec wrote: »
    I'm going to take a risk and dip back into a Hearthstone system comparison here. With the shard shop incoming its now (possibly?) an option for Capital Games.

    When Blizzard nerfs a card in hearthstone, you have a limited timeframe after its nerf to scrap it for the full value it costs to create. Rarer cards scrap for more when they are nerfed. This is OPTIONAL for the player, they are not forced to scrap.

    So say, for example, Poe Dameron is nerfed. You should have the option, if you want, to scrap him for a shard shop value equivalent to the shards you spent on Poe, to redistribute to another character 1:1 for characters of equal rarity (ie cantina shipment characters). OR just keep him becuase you like him and or think he's still great.

    That should fix the "but I invested in this character" problem of balancing.

    Ty, this idea has been mentioned a few times but seems to go largely unnoticed. It would resolve one of the primary complaints about nerfing in general.
  • Triqui wrote: »
    Enklave wrote: »
    If you nerf Poe anymore then there will no longer be a need for a tank might as well just carry another DPS. More needs to be done than just nerfing Poe's abilities to balance the game. Nerfing Poe will actually make it more out of balance. Right now where I am dont see the problem. I am running Poe and a lot of people are. But top 10 has a Han and a Chewbacca as leaders.

    That doesn't mean they have no poe in their team. And try to play without Poe, you will see how fast your team die without him.

    Because he steal your turn meter before you can do ****, then 1-2 toons die (depends on enemy team), then you make some damage to poe and enemy Lumi heals him. You are dead.

    This is the flow of every match where I stands against poe team.

    This is the whole purpose of using Poe. If you take away his turn meter reduction what advantage does carrying him give your team.
    What about taunt to protect your squishies, speed 143 to do it raster than any other tank, , AOE expose to add damage while doing ig, and offense down with his basic to reduce damage done, and self heal thanks to a passive and highest tenacity in game? You know, like other tanks taunt, just better? Those tanks you said a couple of poste ago that are seeing in top 10 in tour arena as proof they are ok?

    With current DPS he is dead with 1-2 hits. So without Turn Meter reduction no point in using a tank.
  • Triqui wrote: »
    A lot of the late arguments about not nerfing Poe seem to be "it can't be nerfed because I invested on him". That says nothing about him being ir not balanced.

    This game will have seversl chars during it's life that will need a balance. It is a matter of fact, all games need to do it, even games with huge budgets and open plsytest servers with millions of playtesters have yo do it, sooner or later. SWGOH is not different. And those chars, now or in the future, that will get rebalanced, will also belong to people who had invested on them. And some of them WILL be rebalanced, regardless of Poe being or not, because devs are human and sometimes make mistakes that need correction.

    So if you want him not to be nerfed, you should focus on arguments that show he is balanced. " I have invested in him" is not an argument that shows he is or is not balanced.

    I dont care if he is nerfed I just dont think that balances the game. There is more required to balance the game. Making Tanks useless in the game isnt the solution.
  • Keaven wrote: »
    Regard the DpS meta issue, reducing damage across the board will only further narrow the scope of effective heroes and not solve the problem, and may potentially swing the balance towards unbeatable stall squads in the arena.

    The issue is a bit more complicated than that and requires some precision and slowly incremented changes to key heroes over time as to not completely remove their functions or synergy. Some nerfs and more buffs etc.

    Defense mechanics are also imbalanced compared to offense mechanics which could be addressed.

    +1
  • Keaven wrote: »
    Regard the DpS meta issue, reducing damage across the board will only further narrow the scope of effective heroes and not solve the problem, and may potentially swing the balance towards unbeatable stall squads in the arena.

    The issue is a bit more complicated than that and requires some precision and slowly incremented changes to key heroes over time as to not completely remove their functions or synergy. Some nerfs and more buffs etc.

    Defense mechanics are also imbalanced compared to offense mechanics which could be addressed.

    +1

    With repeating myself in mind I believe the fix is so simple.

    Add a character or give a skill to an existing character(s) that reduces damage by 40-60% for two turns.


    Easy.

    No nerfs problem solved.
  • MenaceTEC wrote: »
    Keaven wrote: »
    Regard the DpS meta issue, reducing damage across the board will only further narrow the scope of effective heroes and not solve the problem, and may potentially swing the balance towards unbeatable stall squads in the arena.

    The issue is a bit more complicated than that and requires some precision and slowly incremented changes to key heroes over time as to not completely remove their functions or synergy. Some nerfs and more buffs etc.

    Defense mechanics are also imbalanced compared to offense mechanics which could be addressed.

    +1

    With repeating myself in mind I believe the fix is so simple.

    Add a character or give a skill to an existing character(s) that reduces damage by 40-60% for two turns.


    Easy.

    No nerfs problem solved.

    I like this Idea.

  • medetec
    1571 posts Member
    MenaceTEC wrote: »

    With repeating myself in mind I believe the fix is so simple.

    Add a character or give a skill to an existing character(s) that reduces damage by 40-60% for two turns.


    Easy.

    No nerfs problem solved.

    There is supposed to be a skill that functions defensively. oddly enough its called Defense Up. Except it doesn't do anything. If it worked Chewie might be somewhat competitive. Even Royal Guard could see play.

    what if instead of reducing damage by basically 0, Defense Up reduced damage by 33%? That way a character attacking with Offense Up against a character with Defense Up would come out a wash, 100 x 1.5 x 0.66 = 100.

    I still think the "my entire team goes before yours" is highly abuseable even when you aren't in a 1-shot meta so dealing with Poe's meter reduction would be good, but having real tanks and defensive options would shake things up from the dps dps dps dps thats currently running the show.

    Nerfing Poe isn't nerfing the only viable tank, he's a support the way the game works at the moment. There are no viable tanks because none of them have enough effective hp to soak more than a handful of attacks. maybe 1 more attack than a non "tank".
  • There is a viable tank though, His name is Poe.

    When I heard of Poe's abilities I told myself, boy that would go great with my droids in arena. This was 6 weeks ago.

    Everyone was yelling nerd nerf nerf and instead I just started mine from scratch and now I am top 20 in my shard instead of top 100-200 with a 5* Poe and 5* Poggle. I farmed them both from scratch...

    Maybe instead of nerfing you should try playing the game and earning your place, and if you are **** that a Poe beat your team then try another team.
  • medetec wrote: »
    MenaceTEC wrote: »

    With repeating myself in mind I believe the fix is so simple.

    Add a character or give a skill to an existing character(s) that reduces damage by 40-60% for two turns.


    Easy.

    No nerfs problem solved.

    There is supposed to be a skill that functions defensively. oddly enough its called Defense Up. Except it doesn't do anything. If it worked Chewie might be somewhat competitive. Even Royal Guard could see play.

    what if instead of reducing damage by basically 0, Defense Up reduced damage by 33%? That way a character attacking with Offense Up against a character with Defense Up would come out a wash, 100 x 1.5 x 0.66 = 100.

    I still think the "my entire team goes before yours" is highly abuseable even when you aren't in a 1-shot meta so dealing with Poe's meter reduction would be good, but having real tanks and defensive options would shake things up from the dps dps dps dps thats currently running the show.

    Nerfing Poe isn't nerfing the only viable tank, he's a support the way the game works at the moment. There are no viable tanks because none of them have enough effective hp to soak more than a handful of attacks. maybe 1 more attack than a non "tank".

    I like the 33% damage reduction for defence up. It makes a lot more sense then the current implementation.
  • LoveLoveRice
    182 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    MenaceTEC wrote: »

    With repeating myself in mind I believe the fix is so simple.

    Add a character or give a skill to an existing character(s) that reduces damage by 40-60% for two turns.

    Easy.

    No nerfs problem solved.

    Umm Old Ben and grand moff Tarkin? Maybe a few others.

    Fights should not last more than a couple of minutes, being locked out for a half an hour would be rage inducing. The devs should do lots of nerfs and buffs to keep the meta constantly changing. That would be fun from my perspective.
  • Triqui
    2790 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    medetec wrote: »
    I'm going to take a risk and dip back into a Hearthstone system comparison here. With the shard shop incoming its now (possibly?) an option for Capital Games.

    When Blizzard nerfs a card in hearthstone, you have a limited timeframe after its nerf to scrap it for the full value it costs to create. Rarer cards scrap for more when they are nerfed. This is OPTIONAL for the player, they are not forced to scrap.

    So say, for example, Poe Dameron is nerfed. You should have the option, if you want, to scrap him for a shard shop value equivalent to the shards you spent on Poe, to redistribute to another character 1:1 for characters of equal rarity (ie cantina shipment characters). OR just keep him becuase you like him and or think he's still great.

    That should fix the "but I invested in this character" problem of balancing.

    Not bad idea, but I'd limit it to other toons in same shipment. Otherwise people would scratch their Phasma after recent "nerf" to get Old Ben and then construct phasma again in the ver y fast GW.
  • Triqui
    2790 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Triqui wrote: »
    Enklave wrote: »
    If you nerf Poe anymore then there will no longer be a need for a tank might as well just carry another DPS. More needs to be done than just nerfing Poe's abilities to balance the game. Nerfing Poe will actually make it more out of balance. Right now where I am dont see the problem. I am running Poe and a lot of people are. But top 10 has a Han and a Chewbacca as leaders.

    That doesn't mean they have no poe in their team. And try to play without Poe, you will see how fast your team die without him.

    Because he steal your turn meter before you can do ****, then 1-2 toons die (depends on enemy team), then you make some damage to poe and enemy Lumi heals him. You are dead.

    This is the flow of every match where I stands against poe team.

    This is the whole purpose of using Poe. If you take away his turn meter reduction what advantage does carrying him give your team.
    What about taunt to protect your squishies, speed 143 to do it raster than any other tank, , AOE expose to add damage while doing ig, and offense down with his basic to reduce damage done, and self heal thanks to a passive and highest tenacity in game? You know, like other tanks taunt, just better? Those tanks you said a couple of poste ago that are seeing in top 10 in tour arena as proof they are ok?

    With current DPS he is dead with 1-2 hits. So without Turn Meter reduction no point in using a tank.

    But there is a point. 2 hits vs poe means that you still have Leia and Rey alive. That's what tanks should do.
  • Triqui
    2790 posts Member
    Maybe instead of nerfing you should try playing the game and earning your place, and if you are **** that a Poe beat your team then try another team.
    Just a question. If next week Yoda is released, and he is totally OP, having 200 skill and an ability that destroh tour team, would you say the same?

    Do you think it is phisically possible that a char is unbalanced? That they will have to rebalanced something, sometimes in the future? Or do you think that it is beyond the realm of possibility that CG makes a mistake and release a badly pkaytested char who is too powerful?

  • Triqui wrote: »
    Triqui wrote: »
    Enklave wrote: »
    If you nerf Poe anymore then there will no longer be a need for a tank might as well just carry another DPS. More needs to be done than just nerfing Poe's abilities to balance the game. Nerfing Poe will actually make it more out of balance. Right now where I am dont see the problem. I am running Poe and a lot of people are. But top 10 has a Han and a Chewbacca as leaders.

    That doesn't mean they have no poe in their team. And try to play without Poe, you will see how fast your team die without him.

    Because he steal your turn meter before you can do ****, then 1-2 toons die (depends on enemy team), then you make some damage to poe and enemy Lumi heals him. You are dead.

    This is the flow of every match where I stands against poe team.

    This is the whole purpose of using Poe. If you take away his turn meter reduction what advantage does carrying him give your team.
    What about taunt to protect your squishies, speed 143 to do it raster than any other tank, , AOE expose to add damage while doing ig, and offense down with his basic to reduce damage done, and self heal thanks to a passive and highest tenacity in game? You know, like other tanks taunt, just better? Those tanks you said a couple of poste ago that are seeing in top 10 in tour arena as proof they are ok?

    With current DPS he is dead with 1-2 hits. So without Turn Meter reduction no point in using a tank.

    But there is a point. 2 hits vs poe means that you still have Leia and Rey alive. That's what tanks should do.

    A tank should take more than two hits or protect your team. Which is what Poe does with his turn meter reduction. Without it the taunt can be removed and make him completely useless. Then he has only wasted one move. At least Yoda is coming so the Meta is going to change anyways.
  • medetec
    1571 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Triqui wrote: »
    medetec wrote: »
    I'm going to take a risk and dip back into a Hearthstone system comparison here. With the shard shop incoming its now (possibly?) an option for Capital Games.

    When Blizzard nerfs a card in hearthstone, you have a limited timeframe after its nerf to scrap it for the full value it costs to create. Rarer cards scrap for more when they are nerfed. This is OPTIONAL for the player, they are not forced to scrap.

    So say, for example, Poe Dameron is nerfed. You should have the option, if you want, to scrap him for a shard shop value equivalent to the shards you spent on Poe, to redistribute to another character 1:1 for characters of equal rarity (ie cantina shipment characters). OR just keep him becuase you like him and or think he's still great.

    That should fix the "but I invested in this character" problem of balancing.

    Not bad idea, but I'd límite it to other toons in same shipment. Otherwise people would scratch their Phasma after recent "nerf" to get Old Ben and then construct phasma again in the ver y fast GW.

    That's why I said 1:1 for characters of the same rarity. The shard compensation should be the tier value of Cantina Shipment characters so you need a sort of currency exchange system. My guess is if chrom only chars are in the shard shop they will be exorbitantly expensive. Say a 6* Poe is scrapped, thats 230 Poe shards that need to be converted. Say you get 2300 "neutral" shop shards, 1 shipment char shard being worth 10 neutral shards. More common characters, like say Phasma (GW chars) could be worth only 3-5 neutral shards per 1 of theirs, and chrom only might be 100 shards per. So it would require 23000 neutral shards to 6* a chrom only from scratch, ie 10x 6* cantina scraps, or as the shop is supposed to function, 2300 shards overcap of a cantina 7*. Whereas if you wanted to burn cantina overcap shards to fasttrack a GW char they would be more effective, and cantina to cantina rarity would, as I said, be 1:1. And yes, this gives megawhales who overcapped chrom only chars basically free reign to get what they want if its in the shop, but haven't they got everything already anyways?
  • Core complainers
    1) Move to 142 speed.
    2) Remove time meter
    3) Both

    Mid ground
    1) Turn meter resistable
    2) Separate taunt and turn meter into two skills
    3) eliminate expose

    Light
    1) Reduce expose and tenacity
    2) Monitor more before change
    3) change turn meter into 1-turn Speed down

    External
    1) Create counter char (light there are anti-Jedis)
    2) Fix meta (high damage/HP). Consensus is here. But it's a too broad change. This oncludes buff HP globally a bit. Make defense a %.
    3) Learn to counter him

    After these possible fixes, the nerf bunnies will have another target. I rather they introduce new characters for more diversity and balance.
  • Triqui
    2790 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Triqui wrote: »
    Triqui wrote: »
    Enklave wrote: »
    If you nerf Poe anymore then there will no longer be a need for a tank might as well just carry another DPS. More needs to be done than just nerfing Poe's abilities to balance the game. Nerfing Poe will actually make it more out of balance. Right now where I am dont see the problem. I am running Poe and a lot of people are. But top 10 has a Han and a Chewbacca as leaders.

    That doesn't mean they have no poe in their team. And try to play without Poe, you will see how fast your team die without him.

    Because he steal your turn meter before you can do ****, then 1-2 toons die (depends on enemy team), then you make some damage to poe and enemy Lumi heals him. You are dead.

    This is the flow of every match where I stands against poe team.

    This is the whole purpose of using Poe. If you take away his turn meter reduction what advantage does carrying him give your team.
    What about taunt to protect your squishies, speed 143 to do it raster than any other tank, , AOE expose to add damage while doing ig, and offense down with his basic to reduce damage done, and self heal thanks to a passive and highest tenacity in game? You know, like other tanks taunt, just better? Those tanks you said a couple of poste ago that are seeing in top 10 in tour arena as proof they are ok?

    With current DPS he is dead with 1-2 hits. So without Turn Meter reduction no point in using a tank.

    But there is a point. 2 hits vs poe means that you still have Leia and Rey alive. That's what tanks should do.

    A tank should take more than two hits or protect your team. Which is what Poe does with his turn meter reduction. Without it the taunt can be removed and make him completely useless. Then he has only wasted one move. At least Yoda is coming so the Meta is going to change anyways.

    How many hits do you think Poe should be able to withstnd while your Rey, FOTP, Leía nd GS are oneshooting my team?

    Dont know if you really believe that turn control is used to "protect your team". If so, you are wrong. It is uses to have 5 actions in a row and blow the other team into pieces. It is an offensive tool, not a defense
  • Triqui wrote: »
    Triqui wrote: »
    Triqui wrote: »
    Enklave wrote: »
    If you nerf Poe anymore then there will no longer be a need for a tank might as well just carry another DPS. More needs to be done than just nerfing Poe's abilities to balance the game. Nerfing Poe will actually make it more out of balance. Right now where I am dont see the problem. I am running Poe and a lot of people are. But top 10 has a Han and a Chewbacca as leaders.

    That doesn't mean they have no poe in their team. And try to play without Poe, you will see how fast your team die without him.

    Because he steal your turn meter before you can do ****, then 1-2 toons die (depends on enemy team), then you make some damage to poe and enemy Lumi heals him. You are dead.

    This is the flow of every match where I stands against poe team.

    This is the whole purpose of using Poe. If you take away his turn meter reduction what advantage does carrying him give your team.
    What about taunt to protect your squishies, speed 143 to do it raster than any other tank, , AOE expose to add damage while doing ig, and offense down with his basic to reduce damage done, and self heal thanks to a passive and highest tenacity in game? You know, like other tanks taunt, just better? Those tanks you said a couple of poste ago that are seeing in top 10 in tour arena as proof they are ok?

    With current DPS he is dead with 1-2 hits. So without Turn Meter reduction no point in using a tank.

    But there is a point. 2 hits vs poe means that you still have Leia and Rey alive. That's what tanks should do.

    A tank should take more than two hits or protect your team. Which is what Poe does with his turn meter reduction. Without it the taunt can be removed and make him completely useless. Then he has only wasted one move. At least Yoda is coming so the Meta is going to change anyways.

    How many hits do you think Poe should be able to withstnd while your Rey, FOTP, Leía nd GS are oneshooting my team?

    All tanks should be able to take more shots not just Poe.
  • And i am not saying increase his defense unless they take away his turn meter reduction rendering tanks useless.
  • Triqui
    2790 posts Member
    xJazzx wrote: »
    Core complainers
    1) Move to 142 speed.
    2) Remove time meter
    3) Both

    Mid ground
    1) Turn meter resistable
    2) Separate taunt and turn meter into two skills
    3) eliminate expose

    Light
    1) Reduce expose and tenacity
    2) Monitor more before change
    3) change turn meter into 1-turn Speed down

    External
    1) Create counter char (light there are anti-Jedis)
    2) Fix meta (high damage/HP). Consensus is here. But it's a too broad change. This oncludes buff HP globally a bit. Make defense a %.
    3) Learn to counter him

    After these possible fixes, the nerf bunnies will have another target. I rather they introduce new characters for more diversity and balance.
    Can you please stop your ad hominem?
  • SaintEaters
    412 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    CronozNL wrote: »
    Also, poggle. Having a character that goes before most and gives +50% damage for 2 turns on a team with already fast, massive DPS is another issue also. The only only chance you have of not getting turn 1 devastated is by using dooku to try to stun him, but if they also have Poe on that team then it is totally pointless bc dooku can't attack 2 at once and the odds of stunning poggle and Poe out of whole team are very low. Actually I think you'd have more luck walking out of a casino with 10 grand in your pocket. So you can see the real problem isn't Poe by himself, it's balance and allot of it that is needed.

    Don't worry. The nerfers will get around to him sooner or later.

    Dont forget rey, fotp, geo, sid and dooku popping up again

    Rey is mostly ok the way she is. Yes she's fast feels heaps odd damage but also very low life and losses like 25% damage with neg effects and so dies easily. She could maybe use a slight decrease in base damage like many other characters while most jedi could use a bump in base damage.

    Geo is out of control he's so OP. So yes, nerf him somewhat. Not to unplayable nerf just not so op.

    Sid is ok as is also. He could use less dodge against jedi and a -1 turn healing immunity and maybe a little less on his leader ability, but otherwise he's ok bc he can be killed easily and for the damage and Benifits he gives that's the way it should be.

    Dooku is fine. He he only powerful over jedi really and bc of the meta you don't see them much. And he dies easily with like the 2nd lowest hp in game.

    Geo is out of control he's so OP. So yes, nerf him somewhat. Not to unplayable nerf just not so op.

    Sid is ok as is also. He could use less dodge against jedi and a -1 turn healing immunity and maybe a little less on his leader ability, but otherwise he's ok bc he can be killed easily and for the damage and Benicia her gives that's the way it should be.

    Dooku is fine. He he only powerful over jedi really and bc of the meta you don't see them much. And he dies easily with like the 2nd lowest hp in game.

    The point is that making a strategy based game that ends in 2-3 turns max is pointless. And with the characters mentioned in this thread, as well as others, that's the way it is. Poe is perhaps the worst of them all though bc of what he does. Has anyone ever played a real Poe team? If they are defending him then they either have not or are one of the "people" who use him. I have him at 7* gear 7 Poe right now but I don't use him at all bc he is so unfair. I personally hate the current meta bc it takes away so much possible value out of the game. Wouldn't everyone want to have the possibility to make a team, or a few teams, being able to choose from like 70+ characters and still be able to compete with other teams. Your going to tire of using the same characters eventually and want to change it up but can't win if you do bc of all the people saying all these op characters are fine and shouldn't be nerfed/nerfed more. I mean come on people,, think of all the possibilities of other toons and teams you could make. All these nay sayers are virtually ruining a possibly great game and killing all the time the devs put into other characters for you all to use. Everyone needs to stop being so close minded and stop thinking about what they will be losing and start thinking about what they will be gaining.

    @EA_Jesse I would like to hear your opinion on this post if you have the time.
  • Rolf
    1032 posts Member
    Rolf wrote: »
    If they just reduced the damage so that the battle is still relevant after turn one, then everyone wins. Poe still protects your backfield before your opponent can target them, but the opponent isn't dead before they get to do anything. They can heal, have a chance to dispel, all sorts of options! Problem solved.

    It's not damage though - it's heroes you're using. Nothing in the game is going to one-shot kill a maxed out 5s. Same for Barriss - same for Kylo. Generally, there are few instances when anything over 10k is truly ohko and done. As you get to 12k+ things can survive round 1 barrage.

    When you say damage is skewed, what are you using and what are you facing? I do think there's a lot of damage up front, but toons with a lot of health can survive at a high rate.
    But it's not just one hit. With Poe the *entire* team moves first. So unless the AI gets really unlucky and splits their four attacks foolishly, if his team has a mega-cannon or two then the opponents will lose someone before they can move. That's not ok.
    And yes, you could field a team of all 12k+ health chars, but then they don't have enough healing to regroup after the first turn onslaught or enough offense to actually win the fight.
    My ally code: 296-673-769. Wish we could have more than 35.
  • Rolf wrote: »
    Rolf wrote: »
    If they just reduced the damage so that the battle is still relevant after turn one, then everyone wins. Poe still protects your backfield before your opponent can target them, but the opponent isn't dead before they get to do anything. They can heal, have a chance to dispel, all sorts of options! Problem solved.

    It's not damage though - it's heroes you're using. Nothing in the game is going to one-shot kill a maxed out 5s. Same for Barriss - same for Kylo. Generally, there are few instances when anything over 10k is truly ohko and done. As you get to 12k+ things can survive round 1 barrage.

    When you say damage is skewed, what are you using and what are you facing? I do think there's a lot of damage up front, but toons with a lot of health can survive at a high rate.
    But it's not just one hit. With Poe the *entire* team moves first. So unless the AI gets really unlucky and splits their four attacks foolishly, if his team has a mega-cannon or two then the opponents will lose someone before they can move. That's not ok.
    And yes, you could field a team of all 12k+ health chars, but then they don't have enough healing to regroup after the first turn onslaught or enough offense to actually win the fight.

    All they should do is buff other tanks not Nerf Poe. Because every team should be carrying a tank. Tanks should be more powerful defensively remember they arent there for their DPS. Taking away his only ability that cant be resisted or removed renders him useless unless you buff him in other areas. Then all you will see is Poe being replaced with another DPS.
  • Triqui
    2790 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    The problem with high hp toons vs high damage toons is that there is not s balance.

    Rey can do five times as mich damage as Barris or Roysl Guard. And those dont have five times as much health as Rey.
  • J0K3R
    2286 posts Member
    goobstoob wrote: »
    my two cents is if you **** about something trying to get what you want, you should automatically not get what you want. i don't care what it is, this world is too full of complainers that get what they want bc they make the most noise. dont nerf anyone! just play

    So nerf everything! And quit.
    May the force be with you. It shall free you.
  • Rolf
    1032 posts Member
    Rolf wrote: »
    Rolf wrote: »
    If they just reduced the damage so that the battle is still relevant after turn one, then everyone wins. Poe still protects your backfield before your opponent can target them, but the opponent isn't dead before they get to do anything. They can heal, have a chance to dispel, all sorts of options! Problem solved.

    It's not damage though - it's heroes you're using. Nothing in the game is going to one-shot kill a maxed out 5s. Same for Barriss - same for Kylo. Generally, there are few instances when anything over 10k is truly ohko and done. As you get to 12k+ things can survive round 1 barrage.

    When you say damage is skewed, what are you using and what are you facing? I do think there's a lot of damage up front, but toons with a lot of health can survive at a high rate.
    But it's not just one hit. With Poe the *entire* team moves first. So unless the AI gets really unlucky and splits their four attacks foolishly, if his team has a mega-cannon or two then the opponents will lose someone before they can move. That's not ok.
    And yes, you could field a team of all 12k+ health chars, but then they don't have enough healing to regroup after the first onslaught or enough offense to actually win the fight.

    All they should do is buff other tanks not Nerf Poe. Because every team should be carrying a tank. Tanks should be more powerful defensively remember they arent there for their DPS. Taking away his only ability that cant be resisted or removed renders him useless unless you buff him in other areas. Then all you will see is Poe being replaced with another DPS.
    I wasn't saying Poe should be nerfed. I was saying that damage should be reduced so that you can field a capable team that won't get killed before they can move.
    My ally code: 296-673-769. Wish we could have more than 35.
  • More than fixing Poe, they need to fix where cheaters are gaining 1st rank by blatantly cheating in this game. Is it this easy to cheat in this game or is it this tough to implement anti-cheating mechanisms.

    Posting this here so that at least it will catch the attention of the players to see the cheating thread and ask the EA/CG to do something.
  • There is a viable tank though, His name is Poe.

    When I heard of Poe's abilities I told myself, boy that would go great with my droids in arena. This was 6 weeks ago.

    Everyone was yelling nerd nerf nerf and instead I just started mine from scratch and now I am top 20 in my shard instead of top 100-200 with a 5* Poe and 5* Poggle. I farmed them both from scratch...

    Maybe instead of nerfing you should try playing the game and earning your place, and if you are **** that a Poe beat your team then try another team.

    So basically, don't nerf poe because you use poe and without poe you were unable to crack the top 100...

    This is exactly the problem with poe, he is a no skill character, he makes everyone look better than they are.
  • I like that they actually listen to what people have to say but if you "monitor" and make some changes to everyone, no character will be a good strong character and many will complain so there should be boundaries such as the locations where to farm, etc. and there should always be good characters, remember that EA

    Of course you should always have strong/er characters, but to what degree is that ok. Certainly not the way it is currently.
    Nerf Poe, nerf damage, none of that will change anything. There will always be a meta, and it will always be a coin flip at the top levels of gameplay.

    People complain about current metas for one simple reason. We hate to lose. Especially when playing against an AI. We expect to win every time, and when we don't, we do one of two things. Complain that it's unfair, use words like never and always, I should at least have a chance etc., and lobby to have that perceived injustice corrected. Or, we join the meta, increase our chance of winning to said coin flip, and go about our day.

    Some players take it further, because they really, really hate to lose. Especially when they're not in control. You'll find them in any post regarding defense. In their minds, not only should they not lose when they're online, they shouldn't lose when they're off.

    Unfortunately, this thought process is a byproduct of societies emphasis on being a winner. "If you're not winning, you're losing." "They don't give trophies to second place." "If you work hard enough, you will be a winner." In our case, playing what amounts to a glorified D&D, people have lost sight of the fact that not everyone can win.

    This app isn't a video game level that can eventually be conquered by anyone. We are playing against real people, with different amounts of resources at their disposal, whether it be money, brainpower, or time. Those with the most money, of course, will usually be the winners in this game. Those with the brainpower would do well to not advocate a meta change for that same reason. Those with both probably don't play games like this seriously.

    Wow, dude... Was the first thing that popped in my head when I read this. Ok, just go read my post I made before this one and you'll see what I man when I say these things about pre or damage. But just to clarify, I finish in to 4 Dailey, usually at 1 unless I'm snipped out. I have a Poe at 7* gear 8 now and don't even use him bc of the unfairness of it all, and I still beat at least 4 - 5 teams in the top ten of my server with Poe teams to get to top ranks. So everything you said makes me think that you are the person you just described bc you use Poe DPS team and don't want to lose. Why ruin a game that could be so much better with so much more variety and choice just so your execution squad doesn't get nerfed. Let's try to be helpful and make the game better for everyone. I'm sorry if this came of harsh, I didn't mean it to be. I'm just trying to get people to be more open minded and ,as I said in my last post, stop thinking about what you will be losing and more about what you will be gaining.
    Keaven wrote: »
    Regard the DpS meta issue, reducing damage across the board will only further narrow the scope of effective heroes and not solve the problem, and may potentially swing the balance towards unbeatable stall squads in the arena.

    The issue is a bit more complicated than that and requires some precision and slowly incremented changes to key heroes over time as to not completely remove their functions or synergy. Some nerfs and more buffs etc.

    Defense mechanics are also imbalanced compared to offense mechanics which could be addressed.

    I agree with you, but however it's done there needs to be some sweeping changes. A good place to start may be either balancing out these fast, high dps, high hp toons or making some sort of changes to damage, hp allocation during leveling, and the way defense works. I don't know if that would work or not bc I'm not the dev but hopefully it can spark some ideas in someone who is.
    AdamW wrote: »
    goobstoob wrote: »
    Qeltar wrote: »
    Triqui wrote: »
    The " nerf crowd", as often derogatory named, do not exist. There is no decreto agenda to nerf everybody. There is, though, a group of people who believe the current balance of the game needs tweaking, and some of them think that Poe is a focal point for that. And yes, a couple of guys, myself included, are more vocal about it. But those who believe we are alone are being victim of their own confirmation bias. Dozens of different posters have agreed in this thread (just like dozens haven't). Maybe they slip through awareness, but they exist. It is not an imaginary problemas in the mind of a few. The devs also said once that they'll look at data, and use fubdsmentally that for nerfs (and they data show Barris needed a nerf, btw).
    Well said, and thank you.

    There is ABSOLUTELY a "nerf crowd" agenda, however I don't believe it exists to "nerf everybody", it exists to nerf characters that they either:
    a: didn't invest in and are now frustrated at going up against them
    b: don't like their play style and therefore deem "it must be wrong, because my opinion on how this game works is correct"
    c: got beat many times by teams that used said characters that "need to be nerfed" and are now butt-hurt
    d: some or all of the above

    To say otherwise is a little ridiculous. this doesn't necessarily apply to every single person that cries nerf, however it absolutely applies to most.

    +1 Its true

    Again, I say wow, dude...

    Read my above response to a similar post. And yes I don't like the play style of 1 shot kill + no strategy involved game style as well as many many others. You sir seem to be the minority and not the other way around. Or is it that you don't like the idea of not having an unfair advantage and think it wrong of people to want to change that. I'm sorry the harshness but it's post/people that say these type of things that come in and start trouble while giving no helpful opinion at all about any possible solutions while instead just saying your all wrong and just don't like losing to me ( well maybe not the to me post but I'm sure you were saying it in their minds while typing) and only day change nothing and stop whining. It is really frustrating. This is in response more so to the guy the +1 guy quoted.
  • Smithie wrote: »
    If you nerf Poe to a state he is unusable in the Arena, who would I contact to get a refund of the Force Awakens pack and all the crystals I spent to get him to 7*.

    Yes I use him yes he is good but he can be countered by QGJ and still has above average health.

    If your going to keep Nerfing Poe I want Sid Lumi Tie Pilot Leia nerfed too!

    I'll get on the refund train if they nerf Poe more.
This discussion has been closed.