The raid is 48 hours long, shouldn't be impossible to coordinate two times in two days to hit the raid
The attacks go by so quickly its like a 10 min time investment
*four times
each of those for 50 people, maybe 25, but both isn't easy. And there're always people getting screwed. It's not like they're living all in the same time zone with every one having a 9-to-5 job
You can clear a phase in less than 5 mins, so two phases would be 10 or less
So two 10 minute commitments
Guild events are about group coordination
Again, different time zones. It’s not the physical time itself spent in game. It’s the time zone people are in. It’s 330pm for me right now and another guildie may be 3:30 am right now. Why should they need to get up in the middle of the night? Please start getting the point
I completely agree. If they removed the stacking offense and speed and made that only happen at more than 20% damage in a run or make it start at 5% in a single run, then it would be fine. You'd still need most of the guild but you wouldn't have to find a time that works for everyone.
What is CG trying to accomplish with this mechanic. Are they worried that the krackens if a guild are going to throw 20 teams at it rather than just being able to use 4? I say, if you have 20 2% or better teams and use them, you probably deserve the top spot.
The way it is currently designed, it seems to encourage people to get about 4 teams that are good and then stop there since with the coordination, you won't have time to run more than that anyway. Seems like it discourages spending after you have more than 4 r5 teams.
And I know Kyno has said this is working as intended. But the design here defies logic when you consider their stated goals in the past. I don't recall requiring a guild to simultaneous hit raids to be a goal of theirs. So I think we need a little more detail as to why it's this way. Not just that it's working as intended.
And this isn't something they should have to look into and gather data on. They should already know what their intentions were. So the "we're looking into it, you've been heard" followed by a months silence isn't good enough either.
No you do need to be on at the same time, yes it is a benefit to coordinate, but no it is not 100% necessary.
Like I said before, I was mainly referring to the last sentence in the paragraph I quoted, so this exact sentence in the second quote here. This is just wrong as it doesn't apply for everyone.
Not everyone is ready for end game content.
If your guild needs to have everyone attack while at 100% health in each phase to beat the raid, maybe that guild isn't quite at the end game state they need to be.
So fully half the guilds who have completed it now on the leaderboard are doing so by cheating. I have long known that cheating is prevalent in this game based on my own personal history in GAC and arena, but this is wild. People with literally a single R5 Padme team are soloing the entire thing.
Is CG going to do something about this? Ban the cheaters? Remove the rewards from the offending guilds? There is a guild with 60M on the leaderboard having finished it.
So fully half the guilds who have completed it now on the leaderboard are doing so by cheating. I have long known that cheating is prevalent in this game based on my own personal history in GAC and arena, but this is wild. People with literally a single R5 Padme team are soloing the entire thing.
Is CG going to do something about this? Ban the cheaters? Remove the rewards from the offending guilds? There is a guild with 60M on the leaderboard having finished it.
Other than the one example of the guy with only a padme team soloing, what proof of cheating us there for those other guilds.
I'm not defending cheating but that is a big accusation to make. It shouldn't be made without evidence.
So fully half the guilds who have completed it now on the leaderboard are doing so by cheating. I have long known that cheating is prevalent in this game based on my own personal history in GAC and arena, but this is wild. People with literally a single R5 Padme team are soloing the entire thing.
How can that be possible? I just checked one guild name and see they have 160M GP. Others I checked have well over 300M GP. Is that MAW guild 3 actual guilds? I see it listed three times.
If your guild needs to have everyone attack while at 100% health in each phase to beat the raid, maybe that guild isn't quite at the end game state they need to be.
This is just an excuse. And I'm not even talking about my guild. We're nearly done. If we can't make it this time we just need a little bit of coordination. Just look at all the complaints. It's clearly not done well.
And clearly, if there is a good reason for this mechanic (which is beyond me what it would be), then CG could at the very least explain the reasoning behind it. That isn't necessary for everything they do. But when a mechanic works the way this one does, it is warranted.
No you do need to be on at the same time, yes it is a benefit to coordinate, but no it is not 100% necessary.
Like I said before, I was mainly referring to the last sentence in the paragraph I quoted, so this exact sentence in the second quote here. This is just wrong as it doesn't apply for everyone.
Not everyone is ready for end game content.
If your guild needs to have everyone attack while at 100% health in each phase to beat the raid, maybe that guild isn't quite at the end game state they need to be.
Or maybe it sounded like a good idea when someone threw it at the whiteboard during a design meeting but nobody actually tried to do it with a real multi-timezone guild before release.
This is a fundamental cooperative multiplayer game design question: how many real live players can you realistically expect to be online to work together at the same time given a globally distributed player base?
The raid is 48 hours long, shouldn't be impossible to coordinate two times in two days to hit the raid
The attacks go by so quickly its like a 10 min time investment
*four times
each of those for 50 people, maybe 25, but both isn't easy. And there're always people getting screwed. It's not like they're living all in the same time zone with every one having a 9-to-5 job
You can clear a phase in less than 5 mins, so two phases would be 10 or less
So two 10 minute commitments
Guild events are about group coordination
Again, different time zones. It’s not the physical time itself spent in game. It’s the time zone people are in. It’s 330pm for me right now and another guildie may be 3:30 am right now. Why should they need to get up in the middle of the night? Please start getting the point
Find a guild that better aligns to your time zone, problem solved
At this point, it feels like you are being intentionally obtuse.
I like that it’s going to take some effort to finish. I don’t think new events should be completable by everyone day 1. But not being able to work out what works with the relic gate makes this very hard to do.
I appreciate that it hopefully means the market won’t be flooded with relic 8 toons in a week. Only the super krakens and the big guilds will get it.
I don’t like that guilds now have to coordinate so much to stop people getting the phase below 80%. That coupled with immune to tm reduction is just rough all round.
The r5 gate is thoroughly dumb. I’ve seen people defend it with “anything under r5 will just die”. This isn’t the point. At r0 or r1, you don’t gain any further speed and the pigs are going before our fastest r7 toons that aren’t GL’s.. therefore the relic levels have no impact on this. I lost my r7 330 speed drevan to the first attack from the pigs. Just flat out dead. Therefore it wouldn’t have mattered if it was r7 or r1.
The “flatter” rewards system is dumb. And the fact that now if we can’t complete this raid, a lot of guilds won’t be able to access this latest power creep without spending big. It’s just creating a bigger gap between the top and bottom despite cg saying they want lower level players to catch up.
On the rewards, having all this gear that is in tank makes it pointless. We want gear that helps us complete these raids easier and achieve more stars in geo tb, not gear that we can use on mob enforcer etc that are stuck at g7 because we don’t want to gear them.
A rework of the rewards is required mainly, the co-operation and co-ordination needed is insulting when you do everything you can and still finish 35th. Most people just won’t bother when they get rubbish for all the effort
I'm fine with the r8 mats being exclusive to this particular challenge tier, BUT I wish that there was a raid tier that introduced all the new mechanics without being quite so nasty. I think guilds that specifically organize themselves around this raid are going to be able to do it around 200M gp, but most guilds won't be able to do this without at least 250M gp since not all their GP will be focussed on the best squads for this raid.
And again, that's not a problem.
But the truth is that around 130M gp the HSTR becomes trivial, but the RCT isn't possible until 250M gp. That's a lot of time a guild will spend with no worthwhile raid to do. Why not a lesser-challenge tier that becomes just possible around 160M gp and becomes trivial sometime between 200M & 240M gp?
Not only reduce the offense stats & armor etc., but also change the bonus damage from +30% of Max Health to +15% of Max Health, that sort of thing. Require g12 characters instead of r5 toons. With only a small amount of tweaking (and no tweaking to mechanics) you can provide great content to a huge swath of guilds that simply aren't getting anything new to do with the introduction of RCT but don't have a meaningful raid right now.
Yes, we need new content for guilds like mine to have something to reach for, and we'll get there soon (end of January if not sooner, depending on how fast guildies can finish what they're doing to prioritize RCT-specific toons), but there is a large mass of players who aren't in guilds advanced enough that they can prioritize RCT but plenty advanced enough to be bored with HSTR.
Think of the whole player base. The people from 3.5M to 5M need raids too.
R8 mats for only this current challenge tier.
New, lesser challenge tier with no GET2 & no R8 mats for guilds that have trivialized HSTR but aren't nearly ready for this.
The raid is 48 hours long, shouldn't be impossible to coordinate two times in two days to hit the raid
The attacks go by so quickly its like a 10 min time investment
*four times
each of those for 50 people, maybe 25, but both isn't easy. And there're always people getting screwed. It's not like they're living all in the same time zone with every one having a 9-to-5 job
You can clear a phase in less than 5 mins, so two phases would be 10 or less
So two 10 minute commitments
Guild events are about group coordination
Again, different time zones. It’s not the physical time itself spent in game. It’s the time zone people are in. It’s 330pm for me right now and another guildie may be 3:30 am right now. Why should they need to get up in the middle of the night? Please start getting the point
Find a guild that better aligns to your time zone, problem solved
So you can't play with friends around the world anymore? All because of a single raid? The guild I lead beat phase 1. We definitely need more firepower to continue so it'll be a very long grind. And I like the scaling stats as an idea for INDIVIDUAL RUNS to stop solos. But to punish my European guildmates for being asleep at raid start is just unfair. If I knew the mechanic worked like that, I'd have arranged an earlier time. I inferred, as others did, that this mechanic was run-specific and not punishing everyone for one player's progress.
I said in a post not too long ago that you come for the Star Wars, stay for the people. It's not just about "git gud". Our guild isn't strong enough, that's fine. Not the end of the world. But does that mechanic HAVE to punish everyone? Seems an overreach to me.
Noted some of possible bugs being reported earlier and sent them to the appropriate person without realizing they are out sick today. So, as a backup plan, I sent to our general QA dept.
Hopefully we'll get some clarification soon. Might be next week, tho given our resident expert on bugs for this particular raid is out.
Noted some of possible bugs being reported earlier and sent them to the appropriate person without realizing they are out sick today. So, as a backup plan, I sent to our general QA dept.
Hopefully we'll get some clarification soon. Might be next week, tho given our resident expert on bugs for this particular raid is out.
Any word on banning cheaters? There are 13 guilds who have finished it with 0-4 GLs on their entire roster and ranging from 9M to 150M GP. This isn't possible and presents an unfair situation for players who are attempting to beat it legitimately.
I'm not defending cheating but that is a big accusation to make. It shouldn't be made without evidence.
A cursory glance through the leaderboard and their swgoh.gg guild pages makes it obvious. There's a 9M guild that completed it. There are 12 others that have finished it with between 0-4 GLs in their guild. I've seen 7 guilds that have beaten it without a single GL on their entire roster.
Noted some of possible bugs being reported earlier and sent them to the appropriate person without realizing they are out sick today. So, as a backup plan, I sent to our general QA dept.
Hopefully we'll get some clarification soon. Might be next week, tho given our resident expert on bugs for this particular raid is out.
Any word on banning cheaters? There are 13 guilds who have finished it with 0-4 GLs on their entire roster and ranging from 9M to 150M GP. This isn't possible and presents an unfair situation for players who are attempting to beat it legitimately.
I'm not defending cheating but that is a big accusation to make. It shouldn't be made without evidence.
A cursory glance through the leaderboard and their swgoh.gg guild pages makes it obvious. There's a 9M guild that completed it. There are 12 others that have finished it with between 0-4 GLs in their guild. I've seen 7 guilds that have beaten it without a single GL on their entire roster.
It's not possible.
Yeah, some of those scores are clearly sus. Being dealt with.
Did those smaller guilds cheat to complete the Pit (challenge) or is there a bug in reporting and they didn't actually complete it at all?
It's difficult to attribute the cheating to the entire guild, but at least one of their members cheated to finish it. And they all benefit from the rewards unfairly.
This "For every 20% of its Health lost, this unit gains 75% Offense and Speed (stacking)" is really terrible. You expect to all 50 members of the guild log at the same time on the all the 4 phases to hit together? Or you expect that one member hit with advantages? This ability just make evething worse.
You should keep this just during one player run. If i hit 20% i suffer. Not if i go first, hit 20% and the other meber will suffer and surelly hit less than me.
Did those smaller guilds cheat to complete the Pit (challenge) or is there a bug in reporting and they didn't actually complete it at all?
It's difficult to attribute the cheating to the entire guild, but at least one of their members cheated to finish it. And they all benefit from the rewards unfairly.
0 tollerance = ban the guy. Dont let them back.
Others need to have rewards taken back.... or give the community as a whole the same rewards they all got.
The new raid has a mechanic that everytime the boss drops bellow a 20% threshold, the raid becomes harder. [...]
By adding this mechanic, CG is forcing 50-players to be online at the exact same time, and to post scores at the exact time [...]
The mechanic was designed exactly the way it has been implemented. @Demerzel [...]
No you do need to be on at the same time, yes it is a benefit to coordinate, but no it is not 100% necessary.
My previous comment is gone. The game doesn't seem to be the only thing here, that is bugged. Just edited it to change the paragraph sizes and my comment disappeared.
So, here I go again...
This may be implemented in exactly the way it was designed, but that's just awful design in the first place.
And here's me focusing on that last sentence of the quote:
It depends.
A guild, which can defeat the Rancor and the pigs with all of its 50 members might be able to do it with 30 members, if they coordinate their attacks so all attack at the start of each phase.
However, a guild, which needs each and every one of their 50 members and the time coordination will not be able to make it without attacking at the start of the phase.
Furthermore this just screws over everyone, who can't attack at the right time (because they have a family to feed or aren't in the right time zone or whatever), because they'll barely be able to do half the damage with the same effort and teams.
And I'm also very interested in the exact mechanics of this 20% thing, which obviously doesn't work how everyone would think it works. Based on my observation for the timestamps of the video posted above I'd say the speed for the second timestamp is 75% higher than for the first timestamp.
The raid is 48 hours long, shouldn't be impossible to coordinate two times in two days to hit the raid
The attacks go by so quickly its like a 10 min time investment
This is definitely an issue for international guilds without the damage capabilities to power through.
The raid is 48 hours long, shouldn't be impossible to coordinate two times in two days to hit the raid
The attacks go by so quickly its like a 10 min time investment
*four times
each of those for 50 people, maybe 25, but both isn't easy. And there're always people getting screwed. It's not like they're living all in the same time zone with every one having a 9-to-5 job
You can clear a phase in less than 5 mins, so two phases would be 10 or less
So two 10 minute commitments
Guild events are about group coordination
Again, different time zones. It’s not the physical time itself spent in game. It’s the time zone people are in. It’s 330pm for me right now and another guildie may be 3:30 am right now. Why should they need to get up in the middle of the night? Please start getting the point
Find a guild that better aligns to your time zone, problem solved
We should not have to. You flippantly suggest “just find another guild,” ignoring all other context for why someone is in the guild they have chosen.
The raid is 48 hours long, shouldn't be impossible to coordinate two times in two days to hit the raid
The attacks go by so quickly its like a 10 min time investment
*four times
each of those for 50 people, maybe 25, but both isn't easy. And there're always people getting screwed. It's not like they're living all in the same time zone with every one having a 9-to-5 job
You can clear a phase in less than 5 mins, so two phases would be 10 or less
So two 10 minute commitments
Guild events are about group coordination
Again, different time zones. It’s not the physical time itself spent in game. It’s the time zone people are in. It’s 330pm for me right now and another guildie may be 3:30 am right now. Why should they need to get up in the middle of the night? Please start getting the point
Find a guild that better aligns to your time zone, problem solved
So your solution is to blow up guilds because of poor mechs in this “new raid”? Thank god you aren’t in charge of anything.
No you do need to be on at the same time, yes it is a benefit to coordinate, but no it is not 100% necessary.
Like I said before, I was mainly referring to the last sentence in the paragraph I quoted, so this exact sentence in the second quote here. This is just wrong as it doesn't apply for everyone.
Not everyone is ready for end game content.
If your guild needs to have everyone attack while at 100% health in each phase to beat the raid, maybe that guild isn't quite at the end game state they need to be.
You know Kyno, we can go back and forth on gear economy all we want in my thread; that’s fine. However, this statement is just obtuse beyond comprehension.
I’m very curious on how guilds should be punished for poor mechanics in this raid. As DarkHelmet had said, if the mechanic was limited per run to prevent solo’s I could see it. However to punish others for not being able to get on depending on time zones given the current structure almost demands simultaneous attacks is just....insincere to be kind.
There’s nothing wrong with a challenge but there is so much wrong with this raid that there’s no defending it. They need to fix the raid and grossly missed on it, just as they need to fix the gear economy
The raid is 48 hours long, shouldn't be impossible to coordinate two times in two days to hit the raid
The attacks go by so quickly its like a 10 min time investment
*four times
each of those for 50 people, maybe 25, but both isn't easy. And there're always people getting screwed. It's not like they're living all in the same time zone with every one having a 9-to-5 job
You can clear a phase in less than 5 mins, so two phases would be 10 or less
So two 10 minute commitments
Guild events are about group coordination
Again, different time zones. It’s not the physical time itself spent in game. It’s the time zone people are in. It’s 330pm for me right now and another guildie may be 3:30 am right now. Why should they need to get up in the middle of the night? Please start getting the point
Find a guild that better aligns to your time zone, problem solved
So your solution is to blow up guilds because of poor mechs in this “new raid”? Thank god you aren’t in charge of anything.
Were you around for the launch of any of the other raids? Before you jump on it, I'm not defending this outcome, guild breaking raids are just the mainstay of this game, even happened with normal Rancy.
Replies
I completely agree. If they removed the stacking offense and speed and made that only happen at more than 20% damage in a run or make it start at 5% in a single run, then it would be fine. You'd still need most of the guild but you wouldn't have to find a time that works for everyone.
What is CG trying to accomplish with this mechanic. Are they worried that the krackens if a guild are going to throw 20 teams at it rather than just being able to use 4? I say, if you have 20 2% or better teams and use them, you probably deserve the top spot.
The way it is currently designed, it seems to encourage people to get about 4 teams that are good and then stop there since with the coordination, you won't have time to run more than that anyway. Seems like it discourages spending after you have more than 4 r5 teams.
And I know Kyno has said this is working as intended. But the design here defies logic when you consider their stated goals in the past. I don't recall requiring a guild to simultaneous hit raids to be a goal of theirs. So I think we need a little more detail as to why it's this way. Not just that it's working as intended.
Not everyone is ready for end game content.
If your guild needs to have everyone attack while at 100% health in each phase to beat the raid, maybe that guild isn't quite at the end game state they need to be.
Is CG going to do something about this? Ban the cheaters? Remove the rewards from the offending guilds? There is a guild with 60M on the leaderboard having finished it.
Other than the one example of the guy with only a padme team soloing, what proof of cheating us there for those other guilds.
I'm not defending cheating but that is a big accusation to make. It shouldn't be made without evidence.
And clearly, if there is a good reason for this mechanic (which is beyond me what it would be), then CG could at the very least explain the reasoning behind it. That isn't necessary for everything they do. But when a mechanic works the way this one does, it is warranted.
This is a fundamental cooperative multiplayer game design question: how many real live players can you realistically expect to be online to work together at the same time given a globally distributed player base?
At this point, it feels like you are being intentionally obtuse.
I like that it’s going to take some effort to finish. I don’t think new events should be completable by everyone day 1. But not being able to work out what works with the relic gate makes this very hard to do.
I appreciate that it hopefully means the market won’t be flooded with relic 8 toons in a week. Only the super krakens and the big guilds will get it.
I don’t like that guilds now have to coordinate so much to stop people getting the phase below 80%. That coupled with immune to tm reduction is just rough all round.
The r5 gate is thoroughly dumb. I’ve seen people defend it with “anything under r5 will just die”. This isn’t the point. At r0 or r1, you don’t gain any further speed and the pigs are going before our fastest r7 toons that aren’t GL’s.. therefore the relic levels have no impact on this. I lost my r7 330 speed drevan to the first attack from the pigs. Just flat out dead. Therefore it wouldn’t have mattered if it was r7 or r1.
The “flatter” rewards system is dumb. And the fact that now if we can’t complete this raid, a lot of guilds won’t be able to access this latest power creep without spending big. It’s just creating a bigger gap between the top and bottom despite cg saying they want lower level players to catch up.
On the rewards, having all this gear that is in tank makes it pointless. We want gear that helps us complete these raids easier and achieve more stars in geo tb, not gear that we can use on mob enforcer etc that are stuck at g7 because we don’t want to gear them.
A rework of the rewards is required mainly, the co-operation and co-ordination needed is insulting when you do everything you can and still finish 35th. Most people just won’t bother when they get rubbish for all the effort
I agree.
I'm fine with the r8 mats being exclusive to this particular challenge tier, BUT I wish that there was a raid tier that introduced all the new mechanics without being quite so nasty. I think guilds that specifically organize themselves around this raid are going to be able to do it around 200M gp, but most guilds won't be able to do this without at least 250M gp since not all their GP will be focussed on the best squads for this raid.
And again, that's not a problem.
Yes, we need new content for guilds like mine to have something to reach for, and we'll get there soon (end of January if not sooner, depending on how fast guildies can finish what they're doing to prioritize RCT-specific toons), but there is a large mass of players who aren't in guilds advanced enough that they can prioritize RCT but plenty advanced enough to be bored with HSTR.
Think of the whole player base. The people from 3.5M to 5M need raids too.
R8 mats for only this current challenge tier.
New, lesser challenge tier with no GET2 & no R8 mats for guilds that have trivialized HSTR but aren't nearly ready for this.
So you can't play with friends around the world anymore? All because of a single raid? The guild I lead beat phase 1. We definitely need more firepower to continue so it'll be a very long grind. And I like the scaling stats as an idea for INDIVIDUAL RUNS to stop solos. But to punish my European guildmates for being asleep at raid start is just unfair. If I knew the mechanic worked like that, I'd have arranged an earlier time. I inferred, as others did, that this mechanic was run-specific and not punishing everyone for one player's progress.
I said in a post not too long ago that you come for the Star Wars, stay for the people. It's not just about "git gud". Our guild isn't strong enough, that's fine. Not the end of the world. But does that mechanic HAVE to punish everyone? Seems an overreach to me.
Hopefully we'll get some clarification soon. Might be next week, tho given our resident expert on bugs for this particular raid is out.
Any word on banning cheaters? There are 13 guilds who have finished it with 0-4 GLs on their entire roster and ranging from 9M to 150M GP. This isn't possible and presents an unfair situation for players who are attempting to beat it legitimately.
A cursory glance through the leaderboard and their swgoh.gg guild pages makes it obvious. There's a 9M guild that completed it. There are 12 others that have finished it with between 0-4 GLs in their guild. I've seen 7 guilds that have beaten it without a single GL on their entire roster.
It's not possible.
Yeah, some of those scores are clearly sus. Being dealt with.
We see what you did with your name there.
It's difficult to attribute the cheating to the entire guild, but at least one of their members cheated to finish it. And they all benefit from the rewards unfairly.
You should keep this just during one player run. If i hit 20% i suffer. Not if i go first, hit 20% and the other meber will suffer and surelly hit less than me.
0 tollerance = ban the guy. Dont let them back.
Others need to have rewards taken back.... or give the community as a whole the same rewards they all got.
Ugh...CRRRRRUMMMMMMMB!
This is definitely an issue for international guilds without the damage capabilities to power through.
We should not have to. You flippantly suggest “just find another guild,” ignoring all other context for why someone is in the guild they have chosen.
So your solution is to blow up guilds because of poor mechs in this “new raid”? Thank god you aren’t in charge of anything.
You know Kyno, we can go back and forth on gear economy all we want in my thread; that’s fine. However, this statement is just obtuse beyond comprehension.
I’m very curious on how guilds should be punished for poor mechanics in this raid. As DarkHelmet had said, if the mechanic was limited per run to prevent solo’s I could see it. However to punish others for not being able to get on depending on time zones given the current structure almost demands simultaneous attacks is just....insincere to be kind.
There’s nothing wrong with a challenge but there is so much wrong with this raid that there’s no defending it. They need to fix the raid and grossly missed on it, just as they need to fix the gear economy
Were you around for the launch of any of the other raids? Before you jump on it, I'm not defending this outcome, guild breaking raids are just the mainstay of this game, even happened with normal Rancy.