A Whole New Raid Format - With an Example!
***WARNING, THIS IS A LONG POST***
Games are always more fun to play with people. Guilds give everyone a sense of community that increases the user experience, keeping users in the game longer, which is (obviously) a win-win for the players and developers alike.
So why is it that there are no raids where you actually play with your guild???
Clearly, this is a tough issue to conquer, especially in a team-building, turn-based game with users playing individually over several different time zones. But, based on the mechanics involved in HAAT, it seems that the devs are aware of this inherent issue. If we look at the mechanical differences between Rancor and AAT, we see a distinct change in the thought process that goes into completing raids.
In a nutshell, the AAT requires a certain degree of planning and guild coordination that the Rancor does not.
Good on you, devs! That's an excellent change. Each phase requires a different strategy and team makeup, allowing players with different team strengths to shine in different phases, as well as giving all of us the opportunity and a reason to farm multiple characters. Of course, optimal strategies and teams arise. I don't believe anyone disputes that fact, nor do I believe we need to. After all, SWGOH is a strategy game, so finding an optimal strategy would seem to be the point...
The issue becomes: What do we do once everyone has acquired all the "apex" teams needed to complete the raid?
All of a sudden, we're back to where we were with the Rancor. There's no building anymore, and no need for communication between guild members. People know when to run their phase teams, and just wait until the appropriate phase begins.
More concerning than the lack of communication, however, is that once the building has stopped, the guild has reached a point where a handful of people can complete the raid in its entirety. As of now, it's possible to complete HAAT, from beginning to end, by fewer than 5 people:
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/97091/3-man-heroic-aat-updated-with-full-video/p1
Now, that's clearly an outlier, but it's a situation that illuminates the bigger point.
So how do we correct this? How do we make raids require the participation of the whole guild (or at least a significant portion of it, assuming that some people will be slacking or unavailable at any given raid start, and thus cannot always be counted on to contribute to victory). If guilds can have a maximum of 50 players, how can we restructure raids to guarantee the necessary participation of, let's say, 40-45 of them?
Well, what would happen if we allow the different phases of the raid to be fought simultaneously, but limit participation to one phase per guild member, and then look for phase completion totals rather than total damage?
Before you start complaining, or responding with things like, "LIMITING ME? LIMITING ME? SO I DON'T GET TO DO THE ENTIRE RAID? WHAT????????" please finish reading through the post to see how I describe what I'm talking about. As an example, I'll use a raid that everyone REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY hopes the devs are working on right now: Assault on the Death Star.
As we recall from Return of the Jedi, assaulting the death star took multiple teams of people in multiple locations all at once. There was a rebel strike team in place to destroy the shield generator. They were aided by ewoks outside who distracted and dismantled the empire guards. There was a giant rebel battle fleet above Endor to take care of the empire fleet. Luke, Vader, and Palpatine duked it out in the throne room. And then there was the tiny strike team who flew into the heart of the death star to destroy the core. Lots of people acting simultaneously in different ways to achieve an ultimate goal.
So... here's the idea for the raid:
Guild leaders and officers get to assign their members to one of the first four phases of the raid. They would, presumably, do this based on who was strongest in each area of the game.
Strong Leia and Han? You're attacking the shield generator.
Strong ewoks? You're attacking the empire on the ground.
Strong Akbar? You're attacking the empire fleet.
Strong Vader? You're fighting the emperor in his throne room.
Once all these phases have been completed, everyone gets to fly into the core and blow up the death star.
Just like in the AAT raid, you can use any characters you'd like for the phase you're assigned; you wouldn't be limited to those previously listed. Those are just examples of characters that get bonuses (like jawas and jedi in AAT).
In this setup, each phase can be broken down into 3-9 stages per player, similar to how events currently work, based on the difficulty of the raid. Basic raid = 3, 5, or 7 stages per player, Heroic raid = 9 stages. An example of this would be:
I have strong ewoks, so I'm assigned to the ground empire phase for our heroic death star assault:
Stage 1 - few scout troopers
Stage 2 - few scout troopers and stormtroopers
Stage 3 - few stormtroopers
Stage 4 - some stormtroopers and commanders
Stage 5 - some stormtroopers, commanders, and some new empire officer type
Stage 6 - ATST
Stage 7 - lots of troopers
Stage 8 - lots of stormtroopers, commanders, and some new empire officer type
Stage 9 - 3 ATSTs
The goal is not to see who can do the most damage, but to rack up a certain number of completions for each phase across the guild. Once you've posted your individual phase completion, you're done. Once 9 people have posted completion of that phase, the phase is beat. Failed attempts don't lock out your characters, you just tweak your strategy and try again (Players already use Airplane mode on their devices to "test" phases anyway, so this is really no different when you think about it...). Phases would be balanced to provide each player with 30-60 minutes of total gameplay if the team being used has a power level appropriate to the raid level (I believe this similar to the total amount of play time each player gets in HAAT if we don't include the outliers, like P1-soloing Kylo).
At the same time that the ewok players are battling the empire ground forces, others in the guild are tasked with completing the shield generator infiltration, the empire fleet assault, and the battle against Palpatine. Everyone can raid in their own time, instead of waiting for, let's say, someone in your guild to solo P1 with Kylo...
(As an alternative to the single-phase setup, players are not limited to a particular phase, but rather have access to all 4 of them. Instead of each phase requiring 9 completions by the guild, each phase would require 35 or so. The drawback to this system, however, is that it limits the guild based on the members with the least diversification in their rosters).
Once all 4 initial phases are complete, the whole guild gets to participate in blowing up the death star. This phase would require 40 or so completions across the guild.
Jedi Luke shards... I mean... "awards"... are then given out across the guild based on the level of the raid completed by the guild instead of individualized based on damage contribution. Thus, if your whole guild is powerful enough to complete the heroic version of the raid, everyone in your guild gets Jedi Luke shards... I mean... the highest reward level. Actual rewards can still be randomized, just like they are now, but the reward tier is consistent across all the guild members.
Over the many months that folks will be participating in the raid, players can be placed in each of the different phases. Players can continue to farm multiple characters and ships, with the goal of being reassigned to different phases each time the raid is attempted.
In this setup, each person serves a specific function each time the guild raids, and everyone's contribution should be considered worthwhile.
As previously stated, the Death Star is just an example to illustrate this new over-arching raid style. If you like the idea, I can assure you I have thought out many possible mechanics for each phase, as well as overall variations to the layout of the raid in general.
To generalize the whole thing:
Split the raids apart into phases that can be individually assigned.
Track completions for those phases instead of having one giant damage pool for each one.
Once a phase has been completed by a certain number of players, close it out.
Once the guild has collectively closed out each phase, unlock a final phase that allows everyone to participate and requires a significantly higher number of completions.
Please feel free to discuss or ask me questions if any of this is unclear, but keep it civil. It's just an idea.
Games are always more fun to play with people. Guilds give everyone a sense of community that increases the user experience, keeping users in the game longer, which is (obviously) a win-win for the players and developers alike.
So why is it that there are no raids where you actually play with your guild???
Clearly, this is a tough issue to conquer, especially in a team-building, turn-based game with users playing individually over several different time zones. But, based on the mechanics involved in HAAT, it seems that the devs are aware of this inherent issue. If we look at the mechanical differences between Rancor and AAT, we see a distinct change in the thought process that goes into completing raids.
In a nutshell, the AAT requires a certain degree of planning and guild coordination that the Rancor does not.
Good on you, devs! That's an excellent change. Each phase requires a different strategy and team makeup, allowing players with different team strengths to shine in different phases, as well as giving all of us the opportunity and a reason to farm multiple characters. Of course, optimal strategies and teams arise. I don't believe anyone disputes that fact, nor do I believe we need to. After all, SWGOH is a strategy game, so finding an optimal strategy would seem to be the point...
The issue becomes: What do we do once everyone has acquired all the "apex" teams needed to complete the raid?
All of a sudden, we're back to where we were with the Rancor. There's no building anymore, and no need for communication between guild members. People know when to run their phase teams, and just wait until the appropriate phase begins.
More concerning than the lack of communication, however, is that once the building has stopped, the guild has reached a point where a handful of people can complete the raid in its entirety. As of now, it's possible to complete HAAT, from beginning to end, by fewer than 5 people:
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/97091/3-man-heroic-aat-updated-with-full-video/p1
Now, that's clearly an outlier, but it's a situation that illuminates the bigger point.
So how do we correct this? How do we make raids require the participation of the whole guild (or at least a significant portion of it, assuming that some people will be slacking or unavailable at any given raid start, and thus cannot always be counted on to contribute to victory). If guilds can have a maximum of 50 players, how can we restructure raids to guarantee the necessary participation of, let's say, 40-45 of them?
Well, what would happen if we allow the different phases of the raid to be fought simultaneously, but limit participation to one phase per guild member, and then look for phase completion totals rather than total damage?
Before you start complaining, or responding with things like, "LIMITING ME? LIMITING ME? SO I DON'T GET TO DO THE ENTIRE RAID? WHAT????????" please finish reading through the post to see how I describe what I'm talking about. As an example, I'll use a raid that everyone REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY hopes the devs are working on right now: Assault on the Death Star.
As we recall from Return of the Jedi, assaulting the death star took multiple teams of people in multiple locations all at once. There was a rebel strike team in place to destroy the shield generator. They were aided by ewoks outside who distracted and dismantled the empire guards. There was a giant rebel battle fleet above Endor to take care of the empire fleet. Luke, Vader, and Palpatine duked it out in the throne room. And then there was the tiny strike team who flew into the heart of the death star to destroy the core. Lots of people acting simultaneously in different ways to achieve an ultimate goal.
So... here's the idea for the raid:
Guild leaders and officers get to assign their members to one of the first four phases of the raid. They would, presumably, do this based on who was strongest in each area of the game.
Strong Leia and Han? You're attacking the shield generator.
Strong ewoks? You're attacking the empire on the ground.
Strong Akbar? You're attacking the empire fleet.
Strong Vader? You're fighting the emperor in his throne room.
Once all these phases have been completed, everyone gets to fly into the core and blow up the death star.
Just like in the AAT raid, you can use any characters you'd like for the phase you're assigned; you wouldn't be limited to those previously listed. Those are just examples of characters that get bonuses (like jawas and jedi in AAT).
In this setup, each phase can be broken down into 3-9 stages per player, similar to how events currently work, based on the difficulty of the raid. Basic raid = 3, 5, or 7 stages per player, Heroic raid = 9 stages. An example of this would be:
I have strong ewoks, so I'm assigned to the ground empire phase for our heroic death star assault:
Stage 1 - few scout troopers
Stage 2 - few scout troopers and stormtroopers
Stage 3 - few stormtroopers
Stage 4 - some stormtroopers and commanders
Stage 5 - some stormtroopers, commanders, and some new empire officer type
Stage 6 - ATST
Stage 7 - lots of troopers
Stage 8 - lots of stormtroopers, commanders, and some new empire officer type
Stage 9 - 3 ATSTs
The goal is not to see who can do the most damage, but to rack up a certain number of completions for each phase across the guild. Once you've posted your individual phase completion, you're done. Once 9 people have posted completion of that phase, the phase is beat. Failed attempts don't lock out your characters, you just tweak your strategy and try again (Players already use Airplane mode on their devices to "test" phases anyway, so this is really no different when you think about it...). Phases would be balanced to provide each player with 30-60 minutes of total gameplay if the team being used has a power level appropriate to the raid level (I believe this similar to the total amount of play time each player gets in HAAT if we don't include the outliers, like P1-soloing Kylo).
At the same time that the ewok players are battling the empire ground forces, others in the guild are tasked with completing the shield generator infiltration, the empire fleet assault, and the battle against Palpatine. Everyone can raid in their own time, instead of waiting for, let's say, someone in your guild to solo P1 with Kylo...
(As an alternative to the single-phase setup, players are not limited to a particular phase, but rather have access to all 4 of them. Instead of each phase requiring 9 completions by the guild, each phase would require 35 or so. The drawback to this system, however, is that it limits the guild based on the members with the least diversification in their rosters).
Once all 4 initial phases are complete, the whole guild gets to participate in blowing up the death star. This phase would require 40 or so completions across the guild.
Jedi Luke shards... I mean... "awards"... are then given out across the guild based on the level of the raid completed by the guild instead of individualized based on damage contribution. Thus, if your whole guild is powerful enough to complete the heroic version of the raid, everyone in your guild gets Jedi Luke shards... I mean... the highest reward level. Actual rewards can still be randomized, just like they are now, but the reward tier is consistent across all the guild members.
Over the many months that folks will be participating in the raid, players can be placed in each of the different phases. Players can continue to farm multiple characters and ships, with the goal of being reassigned to different phases each time the raid is attempted.
In this setup, each person serves a specific function each time the guild raids, and everyone's contribution should be considered worthwhile.
As previously stated, the Death Star is just an example to illustrate this new over-arching raid style. If you like the idea, I can assure you I have thought out many possible mechanics for each phase, as well as overall variations to the layout of the raid in general.
To generalize the whole thing:
Split the raids apart into phases that can be individually assigned.
Track completions for those phases instead of having one giant damage pool for each one.
Once a phase has been completed by a certain number of players, close it out.
Once the guild has collectively closed out each phase, unlock a final phase that allows everyone to participate and requires a significantly higher number of completions.
Please feel free to discuss or ask me questions if any of this is unclear, but keep it civil. It's just an idea.
0
Replies
Would really like to see that or something remotely similar though.
+alot
LF39M UBRS!!!
I think this would help this issue requiring participation to be in the best interest of those who normally just zero to post and get decent rewards anyway. I love this idea, it promotes total guild participation; though, I highly doubt it will happen(too much work), but props to you sir. If I could I would throw money at this to crowd fund it from conception to implementation.
I loved the idea of the individual raid but I did not like the idea of another dark raid. It's time to hit those with a pure heart.
You've already divided your raid into two phases, with phase 1 having 4 simultaneous battles and phase 2 being 1 battle. The 4 simultaneous battles almost sound like mini Assault Battle events instead of the current raid bosses, but I like this idea! Why limit the 4 simultaneous battles to a certain number of completions or a certain number of assignees? Instead, have phase 1 run for a full day no matter what and let everyone participate in every battle (if they have the necessary team to beat it). You can still have a total number of completions required to unlock phase 2, but having it run for a full day is important for guilds that have members in every time zone.
For loot, during Phase 1 if you complete one of the battles, you get locked in for a loot crate (one of the 16 salvage pieces or potentially a full piece). If you are able to complete all 4 battles, you get 4 loot crates.
Phase 2 would then be ranked by damage (like how raids are tracked now) and loot distribution would also be similar in this phase.
Everyone would get the same # of shards in the guild on heroic difficulty. You could also give out loot separately for Phase 1 and Phase 2. No toon shards will be given until the full raid can be completed, but this will allow guilds that can't do the full raid yet to still get experience and gear while building up their teams instead of unnaturally having to transition between normal and heroic where the difficulty spikes exponentially.
This would also give those perpetually stuck at the bottom of the rankings a lot of hope. Their loot would be mostly dependent on themselves to individually beat the battles, not having to beat their own guildmates. For those who always place at the top, it will still allow them to get the max loot without discouraging their lower guildmates and it also still gives them a phase to compete for damage. Everyone getting shards at the same pace will make it feel more like a guild achievement (which it is) rather than an individual achievement
I think I'll give this a day to see what everyone else says and then recompile the whole thing into another new thread (or just edit this one) that includes ideas like this.
Also when I say mini Assault Battle, these should obviously be much more difficult. Tuned to whatever the level cap is inevitably raised to, but still soloable by a maxed team with good strategy.