The recent influx of useless characters?

Ig88isboss

Bodhi=trash
Pao=horrible
Phoenix toons= 6 near useless characters
"Imperial threat"= two near useless characters
Empire pass/ veers rework= looks hardly competitive

I don't understand what going on here? Everything that's been released lately has been not viable in arena. There's no incentive to buy characters that cannot compete with zaul teams. This must really be hurting cgs bottom line and I'm confused to why they keep doing this...

sjkerhfgdjhd

Well everyone was complaining about power creep, so they stopped making even useful characters? At least R2D2 looks like he should be good.

Ig88isboss

sjkerhfgdjhd wrote: »

Well everyone was complaining about power creep, so they stopped making even useful characters? At least R2D2 looks like he should be good.

Yea but now they are just back pedaling without actually fixing things... None of these recent characters of peaked my interest at all and I feel many others feel the same.

DatBoi

So you want a meta shift every week? At least now you can focus your resources on the same characters. If you dont like the new ones, dont invest in them and enjoy the free stuff.

Kane13

So you've maxed and modded veers and the imperial troopers and tried them out and they're no good huh? And you have all the rest of the characters you speak about maxed and they're no good either? You sound like a bitter droid team homer. Don't worry. R2 is coming. He's a droid. That is if you have empire.

The0n3

Well, the zaul meta established a mark, a very high mark btw, i think the overwhelming power of this new meta caught the devs with their pants down, cause there's been no toon released since then that can even try to compete with this meta. Also, none of the new toons are fit anywhere near a top arena squad, so i think this surprised the devs, they probably weren't expecting this difference between zaul and most teams...

Now, on the bright side, R2 looks trully promissing and seem to be viable in the arena. We'll see in practice. It looks amazing on paper though...

DatBoi

The0n3 wrote: »

Well, the zaul meta established a mark, a very high mark btw, i think the overwhelming power of this new meta caught the devs with their pants down, cause there's been no toon released since then that can even try to compete with this meta. Also, none of the new toons are fit anywhere near a top arena squad, so i think this surprised the devs, they probably weren't expecting this difference between zaul and most teams...

Now, on the bright side, R2 looks trully promissing and seem to be viable in the arena. We'll see in practice. It looks amazing on paper though...

No toon can compete with zaul? Rex teams are used more by top players than zaul team.

Mewingloki

I was honestly really pumped for Sabine and Gar. As mentioned though, how a toon does against a zMaul team is the current benchmark - and no toon since nihilus has passed that test lol. All the toons new toons have been related to counter attacks and TM gain - which Maul is guaranteed to counter on turn 1 with AOE daze.

While I really do like the kits and gameplay of some of the new toons, I do wish they could actually be played >.> They all have the same strengths and weaknesses of clones and FO - which are also useless in arena compared to Maul.

TheDarthKnight

Veers+Troopers was competitive even before the rework (I even saw @Aero take #1 with them)and will be pretty good now, just not meta.

Kane13

The0n3 wrote: »

Well, the zaul meta established a mark, a very high mark btw, i think the overwhelming power of this new meta caught the devs with their pants down, cause there's been no toon released since then that can even try to compete with this meta. Also, none of the new toons are fit anywhere near a top arena squad, so i think this surprised the devs, they probably weren't expecting this difference between zaul and most teams...

Now, on the bright side, R2 looks trully promissing and seem to be viable in the arena. We'll see in practice. It looks amazing on paper though...

I'm in a December 15 shard and Rex lead is by far the meta over zaul. Just so ya know.

Ig88isboss

Kane13 wrote: »

So you've maxed and modded veers and the imperial troopers and tried them out and they're no good huh? And you have all the rest of the characters you speak about maxed and they're no good either? You sound like a bitter droid team homer. Don't worry. R2 is coming. He's a droid. That is if you have empire.

I've been playing since Nov 15 taking top 10 every day. You really think with those hundreds thousands of crystals I sat on one team? Bye.

Aero

TheDarthKnight wrote: »

Veers+Troopers was competitive even before the rework (I even saw @Aero take #1 with them)and will be pretty good now, just not meta.

That was a joke screenshot, sorry. They cannot take 1st currently.

Ig88isboss

DatBoi wrote: »

So you want a meta shift every week? At least now you can focus your resources on the same characters. If you dont like the new ones, dont invest in them and enjoy the free stuff.

Not what I'm saying at all. Im asking for new toons that can actually compete with zaul, at least on offense, and maybe win at a 50% rate?. Lately nothing has come that can even do that.

TheDarthKnight

Aero wrote: »

TheDarthKnight wrote: »

Veers+Troopers was competitive even before the rework (I even saw @Aero take #1 with them)and will be pretty good now, just not meta.

That was a joke screenshot, sorry. They cannot take 1st currently.

Oh, well... this is awkward...

The0n3

You guys need to read my post again... I stated "there's been no toon released since then that can even try to compete with this meta. Also, none of the new toons are fit anywhere near a top arena squad, so i think this surprised the devs, they probably weren't expecting this difference between zaul and most teams..."

I'm obviously not refering to GK/Rex leads, not even zQGJ leads, which are the few that can face Zauls atm... That's why i said MOST teams can't compete. Rex lead has been competitive since before the zaul meta and will continue after.

I never said Zaul was the best above all, as Rex lead also isn't. But this teams are on a whole other level compared to MOST teams.

I hope you'll read this time.

Mewingloki

They have all been subjectively useless for the time being due to what Maul teams do. But as character designs are concerned I've felt pretty interested in them. Sharing uniques to encourage faction play instead of random 5 toons with no synergy? cool. An IGD-like lead for empire that can also be put on other teams assisting on each counterattack while reducing cooldowns? also cool. They are great kits that will likely get their day eventually.

Right now though we could use more anti-evasion (something like palpatine lead but versus dark side instead of rebels/jedi?), match start tenacity up somewhere, or some sort of anti-speed mechanic.

I "want" to play with several of the new toons. But a quick look around shows I "can't" play with them and also be successful. they don't bring the right strategic choices to the table currently.

Aero

Part of the problem is the ridiculousness of Zaul teams. I understand when looking at these things in hindsight is always much clearer, but giving a leader

• 20% starting turn meter, resulting in an effective 25% speed increase for the first turn, which in most cases is far more than the +30 speed leaders.
• 20% evasion
• Stealth at the start of an encounter, when dodged, AND when crit
• Can't be critically hit when stealth
• Advantage when coming out of stealth

And then giving that same character an AOE that applies a debuff that is arguable better than Shock. Think about it, the difference between Daze and Shock is that instead of healing immunity and buff immunity, Daze stops counters and assists. Both stop bonus turn meter gain. Shock can only be applied to one character at a time, Daze can be applied to everyone all at once.

I'm not whining. I know it can be beat. But you have to admit that all together that is a little too much and it's going to be the reason why you won't see much of anything else emerge in the meta.

DatBoi

Aero wrote: »

Part of the problem is the ridiculousness of Zaul teams. I understand when looking at these things in hindsight is always much clearer, but giving a leader

• 20% starting turn meter, resulting in an effective 25% speed increase for the first turn, which in most cases is far more than the +30 speed leaders.
• 20% evasion
• Stealth at the start of an encounter, when dodged, AND when crit
• Can't be critically hit when stealth
• Advantage when coming out of stealth

And then giving that same character an AOE that applies a debuff that is arguable better than Shock. Think about it, the difference between Daze and Shock is that instead of healing immunity and buff immunity, Daze stops counters and assists. Both stop bonus turn meter gain. Shock can only be applied to one character at a time, Daze can be applied to everyone all at once.

I'm not whining. I know it can be beat. But you have to admit that all together that is a little too much and it's going to be the reason why you won't see much of anything else emerge in the meta.

most zeta abilities have loads of extra effects. thats why they're so valuable

Aero

DatBoi wrote: »

Aero wrote: »

Part of the problem is the ridiculousness of Zaul teams. I understand when looking at these things in hindsight is always much clearer, but giving a leader

• 20% starting turn meter, resulting in an effective 25% speed increase for the first turn, which in most cases is far more than the +30 speed leaders.
• 20% evasion
• Stealth at the start of an encounter, when dodged, AND when crit
• Can't be critically hit when stealth
• Advantage when coming out of stealth

And then giving that same character an AOE that applies a debuff that is arguable better than Shock. Think about it, the difference between Daze and Shock is that instead of healing immunity and buff immunity, Daze stops counters and assists. Both stop bonus turn meter gain. Shock can only be applied to one character at a time, Daze can be applied to everyone all at once.

I'm not whining. I know it can be beat. But you have to admit that all together that is a little too much and it's going to be the reason why you won't see much of anything else emerge in the meta.

most zeta abilities have loads of extra effects. thats why they're so valuable

None quite like this combo. 25% increased starting speed an evasion is already crazy enough. Add in the rest + daze and it is overkill. I really wish Daze didn't prevent bonus turn meter, but its too late for that and I'm not a fan of nerfing things. They're just going to have to start designing around this, but then we might accidentally end up in a third tier of power while they're still trying to update as many characters as they can to the second tier of power.

HorishBathens

The problem is, a characters potential is judged on a single aspect...arena. The fact that people view these characters as useless highlights a glaring problem with the game itself, lack of useful and compelling content that could possibly make use of these characters. As soon as people stop shelling out money for characters they'll likely never use, maybe it'll force development into the direction of content instead of copy/paste code reuse.

JinSaotome

Aero wrote: »

Part of the problem is the ridiculousness of Zaul teams. I understand when looking at these things in hindsight is always much clearer, but giving a leader

• 20% starting turn meter, resulting in an effective 25% speed increase for the first turn, which in most cases is far more than the +30 speed leaders.
• 20% evasion
• Stealth at the start of an encounter, when dodged, AND when crit
• Can't be critically hit when stealth
• Advantage when coming out of stealth

And then giving that same character an AOE that applies a debuff that is arguable better than Shock. Think about it, the difference between Daze and Shock is that instead of healing immunity and buff immunity, Daze stops counters and assists. Both stop bonus turn meter gain. Shock can only be applied to one character at a time, Daze can be applied to everyone all at once.

I'm not whining. I know it can be beat. But you have to admit that all together that is a little too much and it's going to be the reason why you won't see much of anything else emerge in the meta.

You forgot +20% tm on a dodge. If just that was taken out of the equation then Zaul would be managable. But one aoe hit or single attack that's dodged puts a Zaul teammate into 100% tm and for some reason they'll take next turn even if your team is already at 100% tm.

Robbathehutt

All the new characters have way way more uses than most of the original characters. If anything the new characters are either too useful or too powerful or a ton of old characters need to be reworked.

Poxx

HorishBathens wrote: »

The problem is, a characters potential is judged on a single aspect...arena. The fact that people view these characters as useless highlights a glaring problem with the game itself, lack of useful and compelling content that could possibly make use of these characters. As soon as people stop shelling out money for characters they'll likely never use, maybe it'll force development into the direction of content instead of copy/paste code reuse.

It has 2 b based on arena. Arena is the primary source of crystals...the most wanted currency in the game. With it, u can get any other currency, toons, gear, packs etc. If crystals equivalent to 1st place in arena could b acquired in fleet, or GW, or somewhere else...arena would not b the basis for judgment.

Geonosian_Spy

OP- I think the jury is still out on Veers. I am personally happy for the rework but can see why others aren't. And given, the chances of most players having the accompanying Troopers reasonably leveled up (or having the willingness to put all other farming on hold) makes a wholesale move to an Empire comp kinda daunting.

HorishBathens wrote: »

The problem is, a characters potential is judged on a single aspect...arena. The fact that people view these characters as useless highlights a glaring problem with the game itself, lack of useful and compelling content that could possibly make use of these characters. As soon as people stop shelling out money for characters they'll likely never use, maybe it'll force development into the direction of content instead of copy/paste code reuse.

Exactly this. I've reached a point in Arena where I'm just auto'ing enough battles to stay in the top 10 and budget my Crystal outlay hinged upon the 200-250 Crystals I'm bound to get each day. And even the days where I get some favorable matchups and find myself in the top 3 it isn't fun.

Unfortunately, the measuring stick for a character's worth is Arena because there's no other way to obtain Crystals without kicking down for them (GW/daily Crystals are nominal at best.)

So this is why I don't really sim Challenges any more or auto any GW battles because these are the only places I can air out new toons.

Bjorne_Fellhanded

I think the newly released characters and focus on team synergy is absolutely fantastic. Do they remotely compete with maul or rex in arena? No. Unfortunately the Zaul lead was overdesigned. Its a shame. He needs a nerf, and if Rex needs one to lower him in line then so be it. Would make arena a more viable place to run all sorts of compositions.
Will it happen? Shouldnt think so which is kinda scary. Because in that case, to overturn the maul meta, youll have to increase the power creep, leaving all the new and old designs behind.

*edit* For context, I take 1st daily with Rex to overcome all the Zaul on my shard. Would be nice to get some changes that dont revolve around power creep.

Big_Boss

Bodhi useful in GW especially vs Empire teams
Pao- yet to he seen
Phoenix- Ezra is great Sabine is Good and so is Zeb
imperial threat- Gar has a few good things and places he can be used
Veers rework- a little underwhelming but yet to see all the pieces working together

Ig88isboss

Bjorne_Fellhanded wrote: »

I think the newly released characters and focus on team synergy is absolutely fantastic. Do they remotely compete with maul or rex in arena? No. Unfortunately the Zaul lead was overdesigned. Its a shame. He needs a nerf, and if Rex needs one to lower him in line then so be it. Would make arena a more viable place to run all sorts of compositions.
Will it happen? Shouldnt think so which is kinda scary. Because in that case, to overturn the maul meta, youll have to increase the power creep, leaving all the new and old designs behind.

*edit* For context, I take 1st daily with Rex to overcome all the Zaul on my shard. Would be nice to get some changes that dont revolve around power creep.

Well said.

Mrjenkins

Kung Pao has arrived!

stumpoman

CG may not like to do it but they either need to release a new broken character set that can compete with the meta or they need to nerf Maul's lead and Chaze. Rex is not the OP one in the triple cleanse teams. There's no incentive to pay for anything new.

DatBoi

All they need to do to counter maul without perpetuating the powercreep is to rework Plo Koon, buff his leader ability, and make it a unique

leef

To be honest, i like how things are going now. Powercreep is still there, wich is great, but not every new exclusive release is meta-breaking. Cuts back on having to farm/gear every new character and leaves room to diversify your roster.
The main problems is that players consider characters either OP or trash, while alot of them are pretty good, just not viable in top tier arena.