Potency vs tenacity still broken
May 2, 2017 4:23AM
edited May 2017
Title says it all. As an example I have been facing alot of teams with tfp in them recently. I can go against a tfp with 70% potency with a team mostly modded and boosted to 100 plus tenacity and most often tfp will apply buff block to all 5 players. Even when working properly it's not balanced. I would love to see this fixed and it bring about a little.more mod and arena diversity.
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Your team's potency has no effect on your opponent's
Pretty sure he meant tenacity... What would we do without you..?
Gotcha. Im not sure how the whole potency/tenacity thing is calculated but either way, i wouldn't invest too much in tenacity. If you've farmed enough mods to have 100+ tenacity on your whole team, then you probably have plenty of good speed/crit/offense mods that would aid your team far more.
Well, the formula for resist chance is (tenacity - potency + leveldelta) + 15.
I'm assuming you and the team you're facing feature level 85s so we can ignore the level delta which gives us (100 - 70) + 15 = 45%
The scenario you described should give you a 45% chance to resist the way it is set up. That means you should be debuffed more often than not. Doesn't sound broken, but it certainly isn't balanced.
There should really be a +30 mixed into the part that is affected by tenacity and potency. That way toons would have a base 45% chance to resist that can be reduced down to 15% with potency and it would be possible to stack tenacity on someone up to a higher than not chance to resist.
If you'd read the codemined resist chance on swgoh Reddit you would know this.
Not double the effects of tenacity. Double the tenacity stats.. the ones you get on mods. make them twice as big as they are. At least I think that's what OP was suggesting.
You can see that the baseresistchance isn't counted in the parentheses that includes the tenacity and potency levels.
base resist chance: https://www.reddit.com/r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes/comments/42003y/detailed_analysis_of_poes_bravado/cz8hvc1/
The dev explicitly states that 15% is the minimum resist chance (there have been changes to potency and tenacity since then, part of which I assume included not showing the base resist chance with the tenacity anymore. Though he may just have been wrong about it showing there to begin with since he was wrong about the way speed worked when he made the post. I don't know. Either way, the 15% base resist chance is documented)
I just linked the CODEMINED formula for calculating resist.
Codemined means taken from the code of the game. There is no assumption here. There is a +15% chance to resist in addition to what it says in your character panel.
I'm sorry but you're wrong.
He's right. The 15% chance to resist is just the minimum chance.
You don't have to add +15% if the resist chance exceeds 15%.
Or your interpretation of the code could be wrong.
Even if it was, it's not my interpretation. All I am doing is plugging numbers in the formula the reddit post I linked took out of the code.
It's simple coding math. order of operations shows that the baseresistchance is constant.
i'm just going to assume you're assuming LevelDelta could be a negative number in this formula, otherwise difference in level would always favour the attacker. I can be wrong, but as far as i know a delta can never be negative, so that's kinda iffy. Maybe something like that is also going on with the "BaseUnitResistChance".
Or, the BaseUnitResistChance isn't part of the "tenacity" in this formula, wich would also make sence. If i were a betting man, that's where i'd put my money on.
No, I'm not assuming that. It's certainly a positive number and can only ever benefit the one being attacked. It doesn't show the chance to land a debuff, it shows the chance to resist a debuff. So when it adds a positive number, it increases the chance to resist of the defender. Chance to land a debuff would be 100- the result of the formula.
The Base resist chance is definitely outside of the tenacity stat in the formula, that's why it is a constant, the fact that the leveldelta is inside the parentheses means that it can be reduced by potency though.
doh, favouring the defender indeed. Still iffy, since it will also favour the defender if the attacker is a higher level. That means that a lvl10, 50% tenacity defending character has a better chance of resisting a debuff from a lvl85, 50% potency attacker than vs a lvl10, 50% character. I think we can agree that would be odd.
Chance to Resist = max( 0, Tenacity - Potency + LevelDelta ) + BaseUnitResistChance
I'm unsure what that highlighted "0" does in this formula. What does it do?
What i meant with not part of the tenacity in the formula was that the "tenacity" in the formula might not be the "tenacity" shown in the character stats.
"Tenacity has an absolute minimum value of 15%, regardless of how much Potency the attacker has. Whether Poe (or, really, anybody else) has 40% Potency or 4,000,000%, the target can't have less than a 15% chance to Resist unless the effect is irresistible. This is definitely a messaging failure on our part, because while every unit shows a base Tenacity of 15%, I don't think it's explained anywhere that that value is irreducible."
The number for "tenacity" used in the formula would be (tenacity from character stats - BaseUnitResistChance).
What do you mean? The max(0, bla) is there to ensure that if potency > tenacity (assuming equal levels), that part doesn't go < 0. In other words: if tenacity > potency, that is added to the resist chance of 15%. If tenacity <= potency, the resist chance is exactly 15% (and doesn't go below that).
Furthermore, just because delta is usually defined as a positive value, that doesn't mean that in the code, leveldelta is always > 0. It's just a variable name, and presumably it isn't and unsigned int.
The leveldelta is calculated by subtracting the attacking character's level from the defending character's and multiplying the result (which can only be between 0 and 6) by 5, so it wouldn't benefit the defender if the attacker is a higher level.
The 0 is the minimum number from the result of the math in the parentheses as far as I can tell. Not entirely positive, but that's the only thing I can come up with that prevents a negative result from lowering the base chance.
I know the dev said that it was shown in the character panel, but I think he was either mistaken (like he was about speed when he made that post) or it changed when they changed the way potency works. The important part of that dev post for the purposes here is what the base resist chance is. The formula clearly shows that it isn't a variable amount like people were saying it is in this thread, since there is no possible way to reduce the base resist chance if the result of the parentheses is 15 or over (and there would have to be for the 15 to be included in the character panel).
The fixed payout times are the worst part of this game and makes it absolutely family-unfriendly.
Why would you assume it is the codemined formula that is incorrect instead of the common understanding of how it works?
Logic would normally dictate the opposite...
The fixed payout times are the worst part of this game and makes it absolutely family-unfriendly.
But they do. The defending character never gets a bonus to resisting effects unless they are a higher level than the attacker. Everybody gets the 15% chance to resist added to the end of the calculation.